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old thread hit limit
>>9927714
please stay civil and on-topic.
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Man i just really hate lolita
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>>9932179
Haha, you're funny.

Saw this topic on another thread, and this'll get some gulls Googling:
Resolved: modern lolita's concepts (since 2005 or so) aren't original, but taken from the Daisy Kingdom line of fabrics and patterns for dolls and little girls that have existed in the West since the 1980s. Discuss.
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>>9932189
Duh idiot that’s why there’s a thing call old school lolita
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The people who say LM is full of overpriced items aren't stalking it regularly and are newfags who never witnessed egl comm sales.

>>9932179
D E L E T
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>>9932189
You mean stuff like this?
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>>9932175
>opnions
One job
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>>9932194
Fuck you, Soup. No one is questioning the existence of old school Lolita, just finding the root cause for the change.
>>
>>9932189
Can't discuss without pics, though theoretically I would say I don't really give a shit.
I'm into lolita because it's cute and it's above age-related limitations - The clothes are expensive and are made to fit young women; they're not children's clothes, they're not made to fit little girls, and in this way they're subversive, basically screaming "I'm a grown woman, I like cute shit and I don't care what you think". And I like it. I don't care if it was inspired by graceful historical maidens, frail, ghostly vampire ladies, straight up idealized little girls, or all of the above. In all honesty, the way I see it, if the mere idea that the fashion was possibly inspired by little girls scares you then it's probably not for you.
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>>9932189
>>9932198
No wonder lolita fashions are basically for flat-chested girls.
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>>9932189
I doubt late 80s/early 90 japanese lolitas had access to that. Cutie and similar early lolita magazines aren't hinting at that either.
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>>9932204
Late 80s and early 90s lolitas didn't look like that. There was a major shift in the early 2000s towards border prints and blah blah--the WWW was new in the 90s but it existed.
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>>9932189
Vintage DK Cherries print. Not as complex a print as modern Lolita prints can be, but I can see why anon might suggest this is where they got their ideas. But they made them "more mature", if that makes any sense.
>>
>>9932203
Found the bitter cowtits. I'm almost a C cup and everything fit just fine (except if you go for really old old school,then i'll be a bit tight)
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>>9932189
hello anon, i'm sorry that everyone in this thread so far is too ignorant to know what you're talking about

you're absolutely right
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>>9932222
>almost a c cup

nayrt but please don't be stupid enough to believe that C is a static, rather than relative, measure of anything
>>
>>9932225
In any case it's not "basically for flat chested girls". Off course if you got big tits it's not gonna fit as well, it was intended for japanese girls to wear and they're known to have a different body type than amerilards.
Although i'm gonna give you that new AP cuts tend to be for skittletits
>>
>>9932198
You have an alarm setup but your phone is muted??
>>
>>9932222
>not paying attention to the discussion
Why don't you actually read?
>>
This does look kind of familiar, even though it's for an actual doll.
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>>9932239
The print not so much, but the cut, definitely. I still don't understand why this is such a scandalous revelation though, why does it matter?
>>
>>9932208
I always hear about lolita in the late 80s, but does anyone have pics of what it looked like back then?
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>>9932179

Im indifferent to it, but I really wish there was a tad bit more cosplay stuff on /cgl/
>>
>>9932230
Congrats on being out of touch.

Every smart phone I've ever had still has the alarm go off but is muted for the ringer and notifications.

You're a fucking old foggy if you leave your phone's sounds on for notifications.
Don't get me started on actually talking on the phone either. Go back to whatever decade you're trapped in.
>>
>>9932248
Then just post more cosplay content. No one is holding you back and there's no rule about having a certain ratio between lolita/jfash and cosplay threads. If you want more cosplay content, just post it.
>>
Piggy backing off that one anon in the other thread stating most of cgl is 3/10's.

I don't think that's the case, actually. I think it's more like a bunch of generic look average as fuck bitches who are over compensating by posting anonymously.

There was even a girl who replied to me with a photo of her eyes because she felt like she need to prove that there are "good looking gulls". It was so fucking sad and pathetic.

The majority of people posting in lolita are just fucking sad pathetic whores who need to feel good about themselves and will shit on whoever they can to feel that way.

I bet they get a rush out of it.
>>
blouseless coords are not as hard to pull off/hard to put together well as some gulls make it out to be.
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>>9932261
No, cgl is a healthy mix. Almost all the popular/very good looking lolitas posted or lurked here at some point, in addition to some more or less pretty gulls who just don't give a fuck about social media. Of course the majority of posters is average or below, just like the majority of people in general. Also you sound salty as fuck lmao. If you can't take the heat, leave.
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>>9932243
It's not scandalous, but normie people who say "isn't that for little girls" might have a leg to stand on, especially if they're older and were exposed to this.
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>>9932189
Pretty much every book I have about lolita/Harajuku says it's inspired by Western children's clothing. Idk why you want to discuss this in the unpopular opinion thread.
>>
The thots attacking momokun are being overly dramatic sjws.
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>>9932261
I've never even worn lolita or cosplay desu
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>>9932189
>>9932303
>>9932304
Then why do so many lolitas act butthurt when someone says so, and go for the "French Rococo" excuse, instead of just admitting it?
>>
>>9932304
>>9932316
Duh, because they're desperate not to have their fashion associated with Nabokov's book, so they do everything they can to downplay the associations to little girl dresses.
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>>9932316
Because we aren't older, weren't exposed to these designs, and this is based in speculation
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>>9932327
>speculation
According to >>9932304, this is all common knowledge.
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>>9932312
Then you're not a part of the majority.

>>9932301
>Also you sound salty as fuck lmao. If you can't take the heat, leave.
So this is the unpopular opinion thread. Just because you don't agree doesn't mean someone is salty or upset. Sorry my words got to you.

I'm well aware that more popular "good looking" girls used to post here but the keywords are "used to".

That is no longer the state of this board.

The fact that you need to retaliate with "ur just salty" tells me you took this personally and that I'm right.
>>
>>9932189
>>9932198
>>9932239
>>9932304
I agree with >>9932202, who the hell cares where it came from, it's cute as hell.

Here's the real, real question: why is Simplicity messing around with lousy "lolita" patterns that look like shit, and not looking at this vintage kids stuff and trying to upsize/mature these?
>>
>>9932364
And the other real, real question: why did DK stop making fabrics like this? I've googled the old prints--they're super cute.
>>
Man I just really hate Ouji
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>>9932336
I said you SOUND salty. And not because I disagree with you, but because of your choice of words. In my experience, the people who usually generalize cgl as "pathetic whores", "uptight bitches", "insecure bullies" etc do it after they got posted or otherwise criticised and are salty about the board but can't stop lurking.

>That is no longer the state of this board.
Do you have proofs to backup your claim?
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>>9932371
Most people can't pull it off.
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>>9932378
>people who usually generalize cgl as "pathetic whores", "uptight bitches", "insecure bullies" etc do it after they got posted
Well I wasn't posted, I'm merely an observer and a lolita. Most lolita's know about this place and I'm just speaking my mind as to what I have witnessed on this board.

You though, you can't seem to stop pointing fingers like most do on here.

You sound pretty typical.

>Do you have proofs to backup your claim?
proofs? are you ESL by chance?
Also, I know some people who post here and they fit the criteria I mentioned. There's also various draw threads and those who post on CoF and are open about also coming here.
>>
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Wearing long sleeved blouses under short sleeved OPs looks ridiculous 99% of the time. Not only does it look uncomfortable and stuffy, but it also reminds me of that stupid t-shirt over long sleeved shirt trend that was popular in the 90's. If you're that concerned about ~arms should be covered desu~ then either get an OP with long sleeves or wear a bolero or cardigan or something.
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>>9932392
Alright. Like I said, if you don't understand imageboards and take the "rudeness" serious, just leave instead.

>You though, you can't seem to stop pointing fingers like most do on here.
God, stop projecting. I literally only replied to you twice. Where did I point fingers?

>proofs? are you ESL by chance?
No I just visit other boards outside of cgl. It's a meme.
And that's not what I asked. Can you proof the popular "pretty people" don't post here anymore?
>>
>>9932404
>it's a meme
>projecting
Ok so clearly you are brain dead and you just repeat the things you see posted on 4chan.
>>
>>9932408
>The majority of people posting in lolita are just fucking sad pathetic whores who need to feel good about themselves and will shit on whoever they can to feel that way.
>I bet they get a rush out of it.
Do you feel a rush right now anon?
>>
Who is the fucking incel who keeps starting bait threads about Momokun? Why isn't he banned?
>>
I have zero sympathy for people who cry about not being able to afford attending cons. The con you want to go to is 6 months to a year out in advance. If you can't save up to go to a con and are forced to share a room with strangers while bumming on ramen and pocky then you shouldn't go. I understand cons are getting expensive and some attendees are broke teens and college kids but it isn't that difficult to put aside $50 per paycheck towards your con.
>>
>>9932411
>Do you feel a rush right now anon?
No, I take a drug that has a calming effect.
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>>9932421
Good.
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>>9932189
My mom brings up Daisy Kingdom every time I post tea party pictures where my family can view them.
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>>9932311
moomookunt deserves all of it desu
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>>9932401
I like it in old school precisely because of how stuffy and frumpy it looks
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>>9932420
what about flight tickets
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>>9932473
You still have time to save up if you plan it ahead of time.
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>>9932473
Attend local cons?
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Did the ita thread get destroyed early again? I don't see it in the catalog. That thing's descended into vendetta hell twice now.
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>>9932501
yep
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>>9932473
Saving money still applies to this. Depending on where the con is you can catch a train or even ride a megabus if you really want to scrimp on travel (DC to Atlanta via megabus is $25 ATM). Southwest flies to most cities where major cons are held so if you plan early enough you can catch some good deals.
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>>9932501
I wish vendetta-chan would get a ban for a bit if only so we can have at least one thread not spiral into comm drama bullshit
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>>9932542
And I thought Claire was bad. Yeesch.
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>>9932401
what are your thoughts on those stupid cap sleeve OPs

feels like being naked to wear them but blouses under looks Bad

>>9932420
Fucking this.
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>>9932473
Why is your first thought about flying?

Visit cons in your area. The most travelling you should do is a coach bus.
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>>9932573
Here's an unpopular opinion: Ladybeard is overrated, he's only popular because of the "lol I'm a hair manly man wearing frilly dresses" meme and from what I've seen, any lolita who likes him is an equally disgusting ita.
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>>9932640
boleros/cardigans or just feel naked
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>>9932655
>being this triggered over a dumb meme
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>>9932666
Nayrt but I don't like ladybeard either. I forgot about him until I saw your reaction image and that was probably their case too. I don't see him mentioned much anymore though at all so idk if he could really be called overrated
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>>9932222
Being a C cup means nothing anon. I'm a 28 C and have smaller boobs than my friends with B cups. Band size matters too.

My unpopular opinion: I love sack dresses. They're hella comfy and they actually flatter my figure.
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>>9932747
>28C
Well yeah no wonder, sack dresses are made to look good on literally Your Body, lol

I’m happy for you anon
>>
>>9932296
Agreed, just omitting the blouse isn't a proper coord y'all gotta coord around the fact you won't have the blouse

Unpopular opinion: I think AP is either just too broke to afford a better designer or they're ending their 30 year reign and are going to collapse under their shit designs this year. I hope they pick it up because I like APs older prints and cuts
>>
I dislike sissy fetishists as much as the next lolita, but I absolutely love drag queens. In a way I think they're kind of like lolitas in that they represent this excessive, almost caricaturized femininity that has very little to do with actual womanhood, not to mention the fact that both drag queens and lolitas tend to be catty af. I would love for a fishy queen to appear on rupaul's drag race in decent lolita.
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>>9932250
>replying to Soup

>>9932747
Really? I'm a 28C too and ended up selling all my sack dresses because they made me look pregnant.
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>>9932894
I think this is only a semi-unpopular opinion on /cgl/. Everyone in my comm loves drag queens and they seem to be very popular in the FB groups too.
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>>9932655
I also hate him. Disgusting. I don't understand why he was popular for a while. He looks repulsive.
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>>9932894
>fishy queen
Please enlighten this ignorant anon on what that means, I imagine it doesn't have anything to do with actual fish.
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>>9932960
Fishy is when a queen looks very feminine and in some cases could pass for an actual woman
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>>9932966
Huh, alright. Why "fishy" though?
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>>9933016
Gross gay men think vaginas smell like fish.
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i side eye people who “pirate” or taste test Cons especially up and coming ones by ghosting
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>>9933038
Oh. And women support this?
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>>9933063
It's a compliment for drag queens and an insult for women, basically.
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She did nothing wrong
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>>9932905
I look more flat chested than I am because of breast shape, and my actual bust measurement is 31 inches, so maybe that's why sack dresses look different on us.
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>>9933066
Yeah I understand that, I mean women that hear this and still enjoy drag shows. That's pretty gross.
>>
Confession threads > unpopular opinions threads
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>>9933090
Honestly I feel like most women who like drag enjoy the cattiness and don’t quite care that it’s directly making fun of them in the process.

Unpopular opinion but people who go into cosplay/streaming/etc with the intent of making it their actual profession are trash people. Including the “craftsmanship” people. It’s cringey.
>>
>>9933063
>>9933090
Apparently it’s fine because the men are gay. I don’t understand it either.
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>>9933047
Especially if the admission price is like 10-15 dollars
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>>9933140
That's hilarious considering the fact gay men can be extremely misogynistic. Case in point.
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>>9933167
>>9933140
>>9933090
>>9933090
>>9933066
>>9933063
it's almost like men are trash no matter their orientation
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>>9932250
What’s the fucking point of the mute button then? What if I forgot I set up some alarms and went to bingo night. Can you imagine the embarrassment of having it go off in a room full of people? That’s just plain /r/shittydesign
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>>9932296
Everything about lolita is not as hard to pull of as some lolitas make it out to be
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>>9932907
There are a handful of very vocal rupaul/drag queen fans in my comm, but the rest of the comm doesn't like it. We don't say anything against them because people in our comm prefer to gossip about things they don't like than to be honest with each other.
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>>9933221
Many lolitas know fuck all about fashion and can't dress themselves to save their lives, that might explain it.
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>>9933192
Are you 80 years old? It mutes your phones sounds, not the alarm because you want to hear the alarm and not annoying electronic jingles.

Wtf would you have an alarm set if you didn't want to hear it?

Theres calendar notifications if you just need a reminder, gramps.
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>>9933255
Stop replying to Soup.
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>>9933255
>being new enough to reply to soup

Check the namefield and stop being such a fucking idiot, anon

sage
>>
>>9933221
Agreed.
>>
I don't think this is an "unpopular opinion" so much as "not popular enough to warrant high activity" but I wish there was another group or something like dailyalamode was on Lifejournal--somewhere that people could post their lolita-inspired outfits, or non-lolita outfits which incorporate pieces from lolita brands. I think it's been done a couple times before and died every time. I could also see something like this being overrun with "lolitas at heart" who coord their one threadbare pair of AP socks with everything ever, but it's a good idea in my head.
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>>9932894
Drag is so gross nowadays. The gay ones are misogynistic and transphobic, the straight ones are making fun of gay people, the women involved in it ???? Idek but I also hate them
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>>9933349
finally, an unpopular opinion i wholeheartedly agree with
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>>9933349
I hate drag as well.
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>>9932261
Meh. /cgl/ is toxic. the lolita portion is mostly roleplayers or normies, though, or they make fun of everyone on here but don't have the balls to post themselves in lolita online. Being posted here isn't even that bad, because most of the cgl community is a hivemind. Every other post gets a "sorry you got posted" or something like that. People on here aren't unique so they compensate by being "interested" or even wearing an obscure fashion. I feel like that's proven further by how linear a lot of lolitas are. they copy each other, intentionally or not. Once someone breaks the mold even slightly, they're labelled ita by some newfag roleplayer.
/cgl/ isn't a good reflection of the lolita community, because most of /cgl/ isn't really lolita, or they barely wear the fashion. I will admit there's good parts of this board though. the feels thread is generally positive.
>>
>>9932316
Are you trying to argue lolita is ageplay or something?
I'm sorry ageplayer or fetishist, but no one is gonna fuck you.
>>
>>9932311
I hate momokun but yeah, the detractors coming out against her on twitter and shit were all obviously waiting for her to fuck up moreso because of jealousy or whatever.
>>
>>9933429
>Being posted here isn't even that bad
Fuck, thank you. This so true.
>>
>>9933097
This is the best opinion in this thread. I wholeheartedly agree
>>
I am enjoying Momocunt getting dragged so hard and going from "cosplay godess uwu" to shit.
She entirely deserves it and anyone defending her is most likely one of her thirsty virgin fanboy butthurt that he gave $$$ to a coswhore lel
>>
I'm starting to understand conlitas. I used to wear lolita pretty regularly, stopped for awhile, and getting back into it I am just... so damn tired of normie comments. Now when I look at things to buy I end up thinking "what kind of comments will I get? what will the normies think?" I didn't used to care but fuck am I tired. I bought a pink OP I wouldn't have thought twice about before and now I'm just worried about all the little bo peep comments I'm going to get. I used to NOT CARE but instead of giving less fucks getting older I'm somehow giving more.
>>
>>9933262
>>9933270
I don't give a fuck who they are. Quit giving that person credit.
>>
>>9933450
I feel you. I'm still not "afraid of what people think" or whatever, like in terms of being judged or standing out, but what's bothersome is that it's so exhausting to get stopped so often. I don't fault the people that stop me out of curiosity, but it's just.so.much.
>>
>>9933462
right, if people thought it was weird but just left me alone I think I'd be OK.
I'm cynical and don't feel people always are just curious or they are just so hamhanded they end up being insulting without meaning to. A lot of times people will say I like your outfit, and that's nice, but they will follow it up with "what's the occasion?" it's not necessarily rude but like.. what do you care? why can't you just leave it at the nice thing? then they are really thrown for a loop when I say it's just for fun. Sorry I don't have a story about how I'm going to some awesome thing? What do you want?
Those people are not nearly as bad as the "sorry, I have GOT to know what THIS" (wild hand gesture) "is all about!"You don't need to know anything, you're not being nice. Go away. I'm so tired.
The area I am in has a lot of drug addicts and I feel it gives them even more fuel to approach you. As far as the normies, the area I am in is known for people being odd in public so i thought before I moved here the normies would be more used to seeing weird people and less stupid about it, but they're not.
>>
Most girls who do cosplay inevitably fall into the 'celebrity syndrome' and become insufferable bitches who won't give you attention even if you'r together with the crew you are part of, together with them. There should be less girls in cosplay.
>>
I'm convinced that anyone that uses the terms "lovelies" or "rufflebutts" or anything similar is an ita.
>>
>>9933459
Credit? He’s a retarded troll and responding to him makes him feel validated and gives him more motivation to shit up threads. Ignoring him isn’t giving him credit, what the fuck.
>>
>>9933462
i normally welcome conversations from strangers but when you've got somewhere to go and commissions to pick up i can't help but feel a little irritated at the guy trying to be friendly and talking about a hobby he's curious about or the thing i'm 'cosplaying' from he likes
>>
AP is by far the most important lolita brand. This is proved by the fact that if AP goes out of business the fashion will stop existing, but when VM went out of business and MmM stopped releasing pieces nobody even really noticed.
>>
>>9933431
Anon is asking why lolitas get defensive when asked why we're dressed like children, given this "evidence". I think it's possible that not many girls are aware of the similarities, but even if they are, I can't blame people for being uncomfortable with the implication of being lumped with fetishists, or being blamed for infantilizing themselves. Though, as I understand, the latter is sort of what the original Japanese lolitas were aiming for - Maybe not straight up infantilize themselves but to look as cute and as "useless" as possible, to radiate a feeling of "I'll never be your wife, I care about nothing other than myself and my frilly clothes" as a form of rebellion. In the west it's given a different meaning ("Is this a sex thing? Are you trying to attract pedophiles?" etc.) which makes girls uncomfortable, so again I can't blame them for denying any ties to that.
>>
>>9933450
>>9933462
>>9933482
I feel this, in a way. I wear lolita regularly so I'm as far from a conlita as possible, and on days when I feel low on shit to give to strangers, I just wear my most "tame" black pieces. I still stand out and people still stare but not as much as they do when I'm wearing sax or pink.
Maybe you can try that? You don't have to abandon lolita completely unless you feel unsafe to wear it, sometimes toning it down (if only by picking a different color to wear) is enough.
>>
>>9933797
You've really rustled my jimmies.
>>
Im really tired of this newb-driven idea that lolita is a big deal to the point they ‘come out’ to their families as liking it. To be fair theyre normally minors and minors dont belong in the fashion. Anyone who doesnt have a steady income doesnt belong in the fashion. The only reason these kids ‘come out’ is because they need mommys money to buy shit. Why cant it be like it always has been where you just fucking buy a dress and wear it? Why do we need to bring telling everyone because youre soo scared of being judged
>also if youre so thin skinned youre scared of judgement while wearing lolita, it isnt for you either.
>>
>>9933797
no one noticed VM because VM doesn't make new things. which was fine, they knew their niche for a long time, but there was almost no point in buying new from them anymore because you could essentially get the same model from last year or three years ago or six years ago by shopping secondhand.
>>
>>9933839
I don't think any of us are thinking of abandoning lolita. Just venting about how tiresome it is to have to respond to a multitude of people each day and keep it perfectly prim and polite each time.

Honestly where I live it doesn't matter if you make it more "tame" or "low key." I don't wear OTT, usually just a JSK and a cardigan, but people basically stop you if you're wearing anything other than jeans or leggings (a little bit of an exaggeration, but not by much).
>>
>>9933919
>they ‘come out’ to their families as liking it
>Mom, dad, I'm... frilly
lmao what the fuck are kids doing these days? This is an unpopular opinion?
I actually understand telling parents about it, as long as it's done right, because parents tend to worry when their kids get involved in things that are considered "unusual" like alt fashion. Talking to them about what the fashion is and why they like it may elevate some concerns the parents might have about it. But there's no reason to "come out" as liking lolita, that's absurd. It can be a significant part of one's life, if one is deeply involved in it, but generally speaking it's not an inherent part of one's identity like sexuality or gender.
>also if youre so thin skinned youre scared of judgement while wearing lolita, it isnt for you either.
Agreed, at least to some degree. If judgment or fear of it stops you from wearing the fashion then you're better off just appreciating it from the sidelines, don't get involved in something if it doesn't make you happy.
>>
>>9933931
Sometimes it pays to live in a huge city full of weirdos. You can wear whatever you want and hardly anyone bats an eye.
>>
>>9933450
bo peep isn't that bad
>>
>>9933919
>>9933932
Piggybacking off of this, I've noticed this is a thing with grown men and women in cosplay. I know far too many adults who are afraid to "come out" to their families about cosplay and it's the silliest thing. They're afraid of their families thinking they're some kind of sexual deviant or weirdo, but I feel like trying to be on the dl about it would be more telling. It's just nerd shit and if you're an adult it shouldn't be difficult for you to explain that you like costuming. What's your mom going to do, take away your sewing machine? If it's just the fear of being labeled weird, it's not that big a deal. They might tease for a bit, but ultimately don't care. I don't understand it. I hope cosplay becomes actually mainstream so we can move past this.
>>
>>9932248
And similarly I want more lolita content. I feel a lot of cosplay. It's just about interests. Many boards don't interest me, and that draws more attention than those who do when I browse catalog
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>>9932296
It's not necessarily hard. But many just omit the blouse because "It's too warm" en because of that a lot of the examples of blouseless coords we see are bad. For newbies who can't tell a good coord from a bad one on CoF it might be hard to grasp how to do it, so it's better to learn first and then do it when you're not a newb anymore.
>>
Ive never liked patreon, or the mindset behind the lewds. Its lead to a variety of normies posing as cosplayers when they're just whores in a bikini.
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>>9933255
Are you perhaps an idiot by chance? A cellular phone alarm is sound coming from THE CELLULAR PHONE so if one mutes the phone it should mute everything including the alarm. Well no shit when I set an alarm I want to hear it but sometimes I mess up the am/pm because they make the text too damn small so when an alarm is meant for 7:34 am it goes off at 7:34 pm waking me up from my sleep. No one uses those pocket calendars anymore nooby. Who’s the gramps now great grandpa.
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>>9934234
it must be really hard on you, having to try so hard and still fail at being funny. hope those rare replies make it all worth it. its almost like having a real, human connection, right?
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>>9934185
Half agree, in that idc what people do with their bodies or money, but the whole costhot concept has really brought down the perception and quality of what used to be primarily a crafty hobby.
>>
If I were practically able to without getting burned at the stake for it, I would start / join a radfem lolita comm so fast. I never want to have to interact with another libfem being all uwuu but what about trans women???? ever again.

This might not be an unpopular opinion here especially with confirmed sissies like Andrea finally getting called out, but I'm just so tired of dealing with this bullshit constantly irl. At this point, I honestly consider this the number one disadvantage of going to meets. Funnily enough, retarded libfem discourse happens to overlap with itas quite neatly.

Sincerely hoping I'm not the only one.
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>>9934330

Thats a fair point, kinda just ruins it for everyone else huh?
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>>9934331
I'm lost. What's wrong with trans women and men dressing in lolita? Assuming they give it justice.
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>>9934402
Too many are sissies hiding behind being trans as an excuse to be gross/creepy.
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>>9934417
Ayrt, with the exception of a few good brolitas I've seen only online, they never do it justice. Also, it's less about the men and trans women themselves (still a minority) and more about the people that support their inclusion and discuss gender politics constantly (a definite majority).

I don't know about other comms, but mine unfortunately has a lot of people who feel the need to bring those topics up every single meet, without fail. It doesn't help that our mods also push unconditional inclusivity and are too chickenshit to do anything about obvious creeps and sissies, even when confronted directly about the issue.

Attending meets does take time and effort, and I just want that to not be wasted on idiots who won't shut the fuck up and stop pushing their ideology on everyone. They can continue their bullshit elsewhere, I just want a comm where I can finally get some peace and actually focus on the fashion and not on unsuccessfully trying to tune out libfem virtue signaling.
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>>9934402
>>9934447
anon, I think you misfired
>>
I like buying altered and stretched out brand dressesbecause it's cheap, as long as I can still fix them.

Buying used socks and shoes is just gross tho, and you can't really repair them.
>>
Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion, but it's never actually said so..

If there is a 21+ meet don't whine that you cant come, don't ask which parts of it are okay for under 21 and don't try to get the host to change the venue. There's a reason it's a there, we don't want you, or other annoying young people there. Even if you're 20, these kinds of meets are usually for girls in their mid to late 20s to socialize with people closer to their age.

Yes there are a lot of nice and mature younger lolitas but I wouldn't want to become more than acquaintances with them because they just won't get me.
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>>9934331
>???
please stop. But I agree with the sentiment. transcreepers shouldn't be allowed at events.
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>>9933838
I agree with the sentiment. I hate that there are people out there who have to make everything about sex. It's annoying and creepy.
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>>9934331
>confirmed sissies like Andrea finally getting called out

what? details please! i always kind of felt bad for andrea because they couldn't help their face and seemed to do the best they could especially recently with coord improvement, but at the same time there was still something creepy/offputting about them that i couldn't put my finger on.
>>
Usakumya and Kumakuya bags are highly overrated and overpriced. There are much nicer plush bags out there. People only like them because it's Baby.

Lyrical Bunny is much cuter too, but I still wouldn't pay more than $50 for one.
>>
not sure if opinion but
I get annoyed for some reason everytime i see a completely normie facebooker on rufflechat talking about how they wear fairy kei or goth clothes everyday. That one thread that's like "what do you wear outside of lolita"? Is full of young girls claiming to wear fairy kei or lolita or gothic clothes each day, but they're just normies. It's really weird. owning one lolita piece doesn't make someone lolita.
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>>9934548
I think that anon was using the question marks to imitate tumblr SJW typing
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>>9934555
There's some details in the lolita thread on lolcow.

>>9934600
>young girls claiming to wear fairy kei or lolita or gothic clothes each day, but they're just normies.
I think that's code for "I wear pastels/all black sometimes".
Unfortunately, people think that because fairy kei wasn't clearly defined by the western comm like lolita, that means it's ~*anything they want it to be*~ and that it ~*has no rules*~, so if they wear some pastel t-shirt with a knockoff star clip in their hair then it's fairy kei and no one can tell them otherwise.
There's a similar notion to goth among young people; while the fashion styles associated with it aren't as strict or defined, people often don't realize that it's a music-based subculture and that they're not goths unless they listen to the music. God forbid you mention this though because then you're elitist; just like pointing out to lolitas at heart that they have to wear the fashion to be lolitas, also gets you labeled elitist.
The absolute state of subcultures.
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>>9933797
The only thing I would mis if AP goes is the mentions of releases in last week's lolita news, simply because I don't wear sweet. I think BTSSB would be most noticeable, not only is it the most known brand, they also gather to almost any style, not mainly sweet.

The most important really depends on it. During lolitas history, multiple have been important and made significant changes. Importance isn't the same as noticeable, so looking only at what would happen if a brand goes broke is quite shortsighted.
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>>9933838
It's a sad but true notion of some Japanese that many people in the West will relate things to sex/sexuality it one way or another, almost like a uncontious obsession. Even worse when we call other cultural things perfected because we do this, while they never thought of it that way.
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>>9934704
>goth is about the music
fucking thank you. And i dont just mean liking that one joy division song; i mean you can be goth and not really participate in the fashion aspect anymore so long as you still enjoy your roots in it (ie people who really grew up in that post-punk era, all goth'd out, but as responsible adults left the teased hair behind for professionalism while still jamming to souxsie and bauhaus). Goth today has been skewed all to hell and not in a good way. I mean.."athletic goth" is literally a black tracksuit.

t.a goth lolita who is actually goth outside the petticoat
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Unpopular onion;
Soup just wants friends
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>>9934704
This. People don't seem to understand cultures and get mad when they're told they're not part of it. It's not just the clothes, it's about the whole package.

Contrary to the goth problem, I get annoyed at people calling themselves metalheads because they listen to a metal and every now and then. Metalhead is a name for people within the subculture, and as the word culture implies, that includes certain norms and values.

I don't mind people labeling things. I like it to. But I wish people would care about labeling it right instead of changing the labels so they can use the one they like.

>tfw people keep thinking you're a goth because you're a metalhead who wears all black everyday when not in lolita.
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>>9934600
Agreed, I follow those mainly to laugh/hate for fun. Wonder if these people realise that those who are part of other subcultures can tell they aren't and think they look like fools.
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>>9934704
>>9935074
Little side note. Embracing being an elitist helps to keep them out of events and such. We never see this people at events and even on the street they stay out of our way, most don't even come to our cafe's anymore. All because they don't want to come to a place full of "mean elitist". We don't mind being hated by idiots, in the end we got what we want, we're left alone by them. Only online it's harder to get rid of it, but they're easy to spot just look at who can't distinguish open-minded from "you-need-to-love-and-be-nice-to-anything-and-anyone". They will act like SJW because metalheads are open-minded.
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>>9935086
This is the exact thing I do.

I make fun of shitty normie music and I used to run a show house so I used to get harassed by some of the girls in the "community" for making them feel "unwelcome". I never made fun of them, and I accept that music taste is subjective and listen to bad artists myself, so it was like washing my house and hands of petty, fake music girls who go to shows to get scene cred.

On the same but different note, I'm thouroughly annoyed at all these girls screaming about how "AGGRETSUKO IS MEEEE" but they've never tried metal vox in their life. As someone who practices their vocals and wishes more than anything to have a metal band it's a huge insult and makes it seem like I'm just another one of those "uguuu uwu retsuko is meeeeeee~" people. I also hate modern goth, I hope those fake gothies shrivel up.
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>>9934331
I'm so fucking happy MTTs aren't leaking to the cosplay community. But then again we have the FTT fakebois who are on a 24/7 live roleplay being uwu gay prince bois totally born with a dick uwu, then proceed to shit on other girls for crossplaying or liking yaoi because they're "fetishizing them". It's cringey and entitled as shit and I hope it bites them in the ass later when they go back to being regular girly girls after getting a boyfriend.
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>>9934704
>There's some details in the lolita thread on lolcow.

there's only an old thread from like a year ago. deets or link, or it didn't happen
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>>9935086
>Embracing being an elitist helps to keep them out
I'm actually firmly of the opinion that lolitas aren't nearly "mean" enough, for this exact reason. Maybe this is my own unpopular opinion.
I recall some comment on Rufflechat I believe, where this girl said that her "sissy friends" were afraid to join the lolita community because of how "intolerant" it is. Fucking GOOD, not sure why this is at all a bad thing (probably because op wasn't a lolita herself), and I imagine they're too afraid to join based on reputation alone; in actuality most lolita comms are too inclusive, to the point of putting girls in danger, and many lolitas are practically doormats desperate to accept everyone and anyone and terrified of the very notion of being accused of being a bully, elitist, transphobe, etc.
If we were actually mean to people who deserve it, maybe more of these undesirables stayed out.
>inb4 hurr who decides who deserves it??
Obviously I mean sissies and similar fetishists, guys who join the community for the sole reason of finding a qt lolita gf, lolitas at heart, and so on. It's not difficult to figure out who doesn't belong in our communities.

>>9935183
It's in that thread, it was posted about 27 days ago, scrolling a bit to find it won't kill you.
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>>9935003
AP is the most known brand.
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>>9935292
i think you're getting confused. andrea ritsuwhatever the dramamongering cosplayer is not andrea baker. res/614202 is the andrea ritsu thread from 27 days ago and this is NOT lolita andrea. the lolita andrea (baker) thread is res/21012 and the last nonspam reply was 1 year ago. scrolling had nothing to do with it, you're just wrong.
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>>9935302
t. didn't join lolita before 2015
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>>9935305
>the oldest and most popular brand who has more sell out releases isn't the most well known brand currently bc another brand may have been in the past

Salty babyfag detected, I joined in 2010.
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>>9935304
Nope, sorry, you're in the wrong here. I'm not talking about a thread, but about a post within a thread. If you go to the lolita thread on lolcow and scroll up from the bottom, you'll find the post in question.
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>>9935308
>the oldest
Angelic Pretty started in 2001, Btssb in 1988.
>most popular brand
>has more sell out releases
Source?

>isn't the most well known brand currently
>currently
You didn't mention currently.
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>>9935313
>doesn't know about pretty

newfag confirmed
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>>9935313
NAYRT but ofc we're talking about currently, not what was popular at one point in time. Also AP even has est 1979 on some of their prints
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>>9935315
I know, I can read wikipedia too. But we were talking about Angelic Pretty. Pretty was a collection of brands.

>>9935319
She sure ran her mouth like AP was the most popular of all time.
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>>9935324
Why are you so triggered over AP replacing baby as the most popular brand? And if you're saying you know better than the designers of a brand as to when they were established you are probably delusional. Like the other anon pointed out, angelic pretty has included "established 1979" in some of their prints like cream cookie collection. But again, you're just going to reeee about baby no longer being the most well known brand. It's not like AP has been more popular/well known for a brief moment either, I'd argue since 2011 or so they've been more popular.
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i have a question, are there any lolitas with IBS?

And if so how do you deal with it, how long can you avoid the restroom while out?
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>>9935127
>getting angry that aggretsuko is relatable to a lot of people
she's designed to echo the woes of every working woman in their 20s lol
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>>9935325
I don't give a fuck about AP or Baby, I'm just saying you're not exactly right and I don't agree with you. But whatever makes you feel better.
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>>9935331
>i'm not a sweet lolita and i'm clearly not educated on sweet brands but i'm going to not agree with the facts you are stating because reasons

lol k
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People who cry about someone coording their dream dress not to their specifications sound like whiny 12 year olds whose parents won't let them buy things on the internet.

9 out of 10 times, it's usually some dress that someone can obtain if they spend some time looking like the rest of us. But they gotta act like it's some extremely rare piece being coorded with normie shoes. Like I know you want milky swan Ashleigh, save your pennies for when it comes up for sale next week and stop bitching.
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>>9935331
So stubborn and so wrong.
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>>9935337
It's probably some crossboarder larping
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>>9935333
You didn't name a single source and everything you said was based on subjective opinion, not facts. AP mentioning "established 1979" in their prints doesn't exclude the fact that Pretty was more than one brand. They started doing their own lolita centric thing with the name switch. Their brand history was mentioned several times in GLB (one of the earlier ones and then the ones on the 10th(?) glb anniversary), Kera Maniax, regular Kera and even some early blog websites if I remember correctly. Just go read it yourself if you want to talk about being educated.
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>>9935340
Cry more. You already admitted you aren't even a sweet lolita, nobody is going to take you seriously when you clearly don't know what you are talking about
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>>9935337
>>9935339
Again, whatever makes you feel better.
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>>9935341
I don't have to be a sweet-only lolita to read articles, magazines, interviews, blogs and everything else available on the internet. Where do you get your knowledge from?
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>>9935346
From 8 years of being a sweet lolita, reading articles, looking at the secondhand market, going to AP and baby in Japan, going to tea parties, boarding GLB, Kera, Fruits like my life depends on it, etc. But you who "doesn't give a shit" about AP and Baby clearly know better.
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>>9935344
Embarrassing.
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>>9935350
You know what's embarrassing? Claiming you don't give a shit about two brands and then entering into an hour long argument about them.
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>>9933797
>nobody even really noticed
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>>9935348
So exactly what I did minus actually reading the related texts. Looking at dresses barely gives you knowledge about the brand history other than about the dress construction. And I didn't claim that I know better than the brand, read again.

>>9935351
It's more about lolita history and people spreading false information. But you're right, this "discussion" is becoming even too stupid for me.
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I really think this is some babyfag trying to act like they aren't sweet so they don't sound biased. Every time someone mentions angelic pretty being the most popular/well known/whatever someone comes in shitting themselves over how baby is totally the best and how they aren't biased because they're classic/gothic.
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>>9935362
Probably. I notice this happen a lot too.
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>>9932747
I love sack dresses, too. I feel you, anon.
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>>9935127
Aggretsuko is supposed to be a working woman with a secret/lesser known side to her which is applicable to tons of people. Please don't try to act like a special snowflake
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>>9935292
I whole hearted agree. I remember seeing a video from a Angela Benedict about the word poser in goth culture and how people got too inclusive nowadays. We still use it in the metalscene today, and I'm glad for it. I believe our attitude together with staying underground is why where still having an active community and subculture. If its true what I hear about the gothic one then it's so full of posers that actual gothic seems to go towards being extinct. Even as a metalhead I think that's sad, wish it would stay.

I just remember. Some meets ago I talked to a goth/"goth". She asked if I was a goth myself. Told her I wouldn't call myself that because I don't even know enough about the culture to know I agree/would fit in with it and I don't listen to the music. Got the weirdest look I saw in a long time, like I talked some gibberish. As a metalhead I never realised before how this could have been a weird answer, and I answered the question many times because normies mistake black metal fans for goths...
>normies generally are like "cool. I can't really tell the difference as normie, but I get what you say". How can normies comprehend this better than people who pose being a goth?
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>>9935292
Also, who decides is simple. The general culture. If you don't fit in, you'll notice and won't have a pleasant time anyways, so you'll leave. If you do fit in, you can stay. Works like that in any self regulating subculture. Works greatly.

>now I kinda want to find a place where we can go talk with metalheads, goths, and other alternative cultures like that. Normally I only meet bikers because we metalheads have more in common. Anyone know a site not full of posers? Either mixed cultures or gothic that doesn't mind others to join.
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>>9935471
>>9935475
Ayrt, I like you a lot.
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>>9935302
No. Any non lolita, non sissy will learn about BTSSB first because they have marketed outside of the fashion much more, appearing in many lolita/weird Japanese stuff things advertised to normies.

For many it'll also be the first brand they learn about.

Lolitas will know both.

Perhaps with sissies it's most known, but I like to believe they are far from the majority of humanity.

BTSSB has been huge in marketing, popularising and selling lolita. I don't know how AP would be more influencial to the fashion. How much did they actually do for the sake of lolita fashion beside creating the pastel vomit sweet trend? They haven't been great revolutionary influence other than that.
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>>9935302
Most know, albeit arguably, is not the same as most important
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>>9935003
>>9935479
>>9935481
Only these are posted by me. Others are other anon. I would make screenshot showing only those have (You) but I'm on phone.

I don't wear sweet. But my main point wasn't what is most known now. It's that they called it the most important brand, and importance isn't just measured by "most known/biggest" in current times. And even biggest/most known is arguable. Age also is no indication on its own, as many brands can go on for long an stay small.

Important isn't definable by one thing in general. Take all in accountancy (in which I say BTSSB has been most important) or define better.

>>9935487
Sorry sissies wear mainly sweet and are more likely to know a street brand that random normies I guess?
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>>9935471
as an ex-metalhead I admire the community for keeping it "pure". When communities get too inclusive and open up for mainstream audiences it's bound to head for a disaster and deteriorate into an unrecognizable mess with normies and bandwagon hoppers calling the shots. It's what happened to cosplay - we got too lenient and look at all the patreon thots and other cancerous matter we have now.
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>>9935079
Like i dont give a shit when someone admits they don't really wear it, just think it's cute. But the girls on there just post stuff like "oh i wear pastel stuff and fairy kei every day!!!!!!" but you check their facebook out and it's all normie outfits or one picture of them with an anime shirt and choker. It's really just...pathetic. Like you don't have to post pictures, but if you're going to claim something is basically your life, shouldn't it reflect onto your social media? especially if you actually post pictures of yourself?
>>9934704
I really hate what gothic fashion has become in the west. Basically black hot topic or h&m dress with black lipstick, and a bunch of men claiming they "wanna date a goth girl!!!" suddenly. I really wish certain styles had more specific rules, or people could just say "fairy kei inspired".

>>9935471
It's funny. i totally forgot about the word poser, but it could easily apply to so many girls in the rufflechat pages.
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The vast majority of girls who cosplay just do it because they want attention and they want people to tell them how good they look.
This is why so many cosplay girls end up spamming their instagram pages with lewd images. It's to get over their self esteem issues.
The vast majority of blokes who cosplay just want to find a cute girl who's into the same stuff as them(anime and video games) who are also into cosplay so that they can have hot cosplay sex. Yes even the fat ones.
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>>9932311
>>9933433
sounds like an incel.

>>9934331
TERFs are retarded, have fun with your "lesbian erasure" friends

All normies think lolitas look weird and can't tell the ageplayers/sissies and "respectable lolita community ^tm" apart from each other. You're all the same and will always look the same no matter what you try to do, it's a losing battle.

Lolita is becoming a dead fashion and is being replaced by other fashion. It's old news and outdated.

Most lolitas are DDLG.

Tons of you are awkward and can barely hold a conversation IRL. You're so talkative online but the second I meet you IRL? Dead silent.

Cosplay skills and coord skills on here are mediocre. For how much cgl "hates" fatties and whales, lots of people on here are fatties.

Like someone else said, it isn't that big of a deal to be posted on cgl. I've never responded to a single bad make-up or ita thread and I have forgotten the pictures that aren't in the current thread. It's the same for the vast majority of people. Freaking out on your SM will make people remember you, like the Jessica Rabbit bitch.

OT but threads usually become political anyway. Conservafags are just as bad as libtards, and are /unbearably/ edgy.
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>>9936691
>most Lolitas are DDLG
It’s the unpopular opinion thread, not the crackpot theory thread.
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>>9936691
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>>9936691
>All normies think lolitas look weird and can't tell the ageplayers/sissies and "respectable lolita community ^tm" apart from each other. You're all the same and will always look the same no matter what you try to do, it's a losing battle.
Factually incorrect. As in, from my personal experience wearing lolita on the regular, the overwhelming majority of responses are positive and not once have I or any of my friends been questioned as to whether it's a "sex thing"; in fact, most people who approach me associate my clothes with Alice in Wonderland or Victorian fashion even before I say anything in relation to either of these things.
Sure, some normies are retarded but saying that "all" of them are and that "all" lolitas look like sissies/ageplayers to them is hilariously out of touch.

>Most lolitas are DDLG
Also factually incorrect. If that were true then that would make the fashion is or has turned into fetish fodder - Do we have more fetishists in our community these days than we should? Unfortunately, yes. Does that mean that most girls into lolita are fetishists? No. Not unless you're shitposting and trying to get a reaction of course, in which case congrats, you got me to bite.
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>>9936697
>>9936699
>>9936700
took less than ten minutes to defend lolita.
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>>9935127
>Only I can relate to her because Hur Hur Hur metal
Well I'm actually a red panda so I can relate more.

You sound like those Tumblr bitches who whine that no one can be 'kin' with their favourite character. Grow up.
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>>9932481
cries in Australian
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>>9935292
I agree with all of this. Obviously we shouldn’t be mean to newbies who are willing to learn, but I’m tired of people trying to bully us into being doormats. Some of my comm’s mods are more concerned with what non-lolitas *might* think of us than whether actual lolitas feel safe and happy in our own community. My friend was scolded by a mod for politely telling a newbie/cosplayer that maid is not a lolita substyle and that the majority of anime “lolitas” aren’t accurate representations of the fashion. She was told that this might make the cosplayer feel unwelcome and make the community look elitist. If being given accurate information about the fashion makes someone feel unwelcome then maybe they aren’t really interested in the fashion and maybe don’t belong the group in the first place? Clear up the misunderstanding and send them on to a community more relevant to their interests. But no, that’s elitist!!1 Better to have no standards whatsoever and bend to the whims of every uninformed person who stumbles into our group and expects to be fawned over because lolitas r suppose 2 b lovlies and lolita is whatever you want it to be uwuwuwu

At least they’ve started trying just a tiny bit harder to keep sissies and fetishists out. But even then any sissy who takes fifteen minutes to read our FAQ and google a few of the brands is let in on good faith.
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>>9936894
I've actually experienced something similar to what you described: I've gotten into a silly "argument" with a newbie in my comm who absolutely insisted that her ebay ita shit was lolita, and she cried that our entire comm was elitist for trying to point her in the right direction, before she was banned. The only difference is that I'm a mod, I have very low tolerance for bullshit, and I had the pleasure of kicking her out of the comm myself when she became unreasonable and inflammatory.
I would wish that your mods were the same but in the current unfortunate state of our subculture, I doubt they'll change anytime soon. You have my sincere condolences, anon.
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>>9936923
Ngl I kind of wish otahime-kei became A Thing so that we could direct ita weebs there instead. Oh, you want to wear that butt-length eBay dress with those cat thigh-highs and cosplay shoes? You might like the otahime community! It means otaku princess, isn’t that so kawaii? We could probably find a ton of anime examples of characters wearing this totally legit “kei”, too. It would be the perfect ita containment style.
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>>9936937
Well technically it is a thing, it just doesn't have a specific community and the girls who wear this shit (or shit similar to it) unironically in the west tend to label it lolita and cry elitism when told otherwise.
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>>9932316
Same reason they pose with drastic pigeon toes and then get all butthurt when anyone compares them to dolls
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>>9936978
I've never seen a pigeon toed doll or anyone associate dolls with pigeon toes
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>>9936945
We should collectively agree to tell them they are wearing it (otahime) then.
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>>9936716
On a website full of people buttmad about blouseless coords and random nitpicks these comments are hilariously ironic
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>>9936894
https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

Im so sorry to hear that your mods suck so much. It really pisses me off to hear that they got mad over someone telling an ita actual information about the fashion.

>But no, that’s elitist!!1 Better to have no standards whatsoever and bend to the whims of every uninformed person who stumbles into our group and expects to be fawned over because lolitas r suppose 2 b lovlies and lolita is whatever you want it to be uwuwuwu

We really need to kill this shit. I can't stand it. Bring back calling poseurs what they are. Im sick and tired of the asspats everywhere in the lolita community. What's worse, we're known for being bitches, but we don't actually uphold that stereotype. If we're gonna be known for being "elitist bitches" anyway, we might as well actually BE elitist bitches.
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>>9937739
>If we're gonna be known for being "elitist bitches" anyway, we might as well actually BE elitist bitches
Agreed!
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>>9933192
>referencing leddit
i was going to defend you.
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>>9932421
Your doc needs to up the dosage seeing how hard you sperged out over this
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>>9937739
>this shit again
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>>9937739
>>9937748
Thirded. Lolitas in my area have a reputation for being overdramatic elitist bitches despite honestly being the nicest and most accepting group of people I’ve ever been a part of. There is occasional drama but it’s nothing in comparison to the twofaced petty bullshit I see at uni and work on a daily basis, let alone in the local convention scene. It really pisses me off to see the local cosplay community talk shit about each other constantly for wearing a cosplay twice in a row or being the wrong race or too fat or too ugly for a character, but then turn around and go “oh yeah lolitas? elitist cunts, everyone knows that”. Our region’s thread is 90% cosplay/convention/photographer drama and shit talking, but lolitas are the only ones who get boo’d out of the thread for causing drama.
When a friend-of-a-friend who’s into cosplay and steampunk found out that I wear lolita she was surprised, because she thought I was nice and lolitas are supposed to be snooty bitches. I asked her if she’s ever actually met someone who wears lolita fashion and she admitted that she hadn’t, she was just going off what other people had told her. Then about a year later she tagged along with me to a mini-meetup at an event, where she was wearing steampunk. All the girls were happy to chat with her even though she wasn’t wearing lolita, she got several compliments on her steampunk outfit and she had a nice conversation with one girl about sewing pleather. On the way home she complained to me that she didn’t like the girls and felt like they were looking down on her. I honestly don’t get it. It’s like as soon as we buy our first lolita dress we get “snobby bitch” stamped onto our forehead and that’s all people see no matter how friendly and welcoming we actually are. It feels like a lost cause and I’m about ready to stop trying.
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>>9938116
>she thought I was nice and lolitas are supposed to be snooty bitches
>I asked her if she’s ever actually met someone who wears lolita fashion and she admitted that she hadn’t
>All the girls were happy to chat with her even though she wasn’t wearing lolita
>she complained to me that she didn’t like the girls and felt like they were looking down on her
Idk how to tell you this but I think your friend is genuinely retarded.
In all seriousness, it's possible she felt that way because she expected them to be snobs, so she interpreted their attitudes as condescending rather than friendly; kinda like how some newbs expect to be yelled at for not wearing/not being able to afford brand/asking questions/expressing opinions, and immediately lash out and cry elitism at the first comment that isn't completely sprinkled with emojis and sugarcoated to the point of tooth decay.
If your other friends are equally close minded like steampunk friend then I think it's a lost cause, I don't see a point in wasting your breath on trying to convince them otherwise. Sorry, anon.
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Lolita fashion isn't a competition. Self-posters and fame whores shouldn't be encouraged here and I am more than happy to trash their reps if they post in /cgl/. There's been an annoying influx lately.
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>>9938134
I think you're right that she interpreted their behavior as snobby because that's what she was expecting, and I've seen the same thing happen with hyperdefensive newbs in my own community when they interpret "have you checked out our FAQ? :D" as some kind of attack.

It feels like a losing battle. Either we try really hard to win these people over and they'll either think we're being fake or walk all over us, or we accept the reputation we have and people will keep thinking we're all elitist bullies. I guess I'm lucky that most of my friends and acquaintances aren't into weeb culture and won't come into contact with these preconceptions.
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>>9935127
AYRT 1/2
Why make fun of other people's music taste? I don't like normies music either, but I have better things to do than that. Especially since you realise music taste is subjective. Heck, we even often say our music isn't for everyone, especially black. But still we like it when we get some respect for liking it while others don't instead of getting hate. Doesn't always happen, but we tend to like it.

Same counts for being annoyed at people relating to a cartoon. Doesn't matter if it are people posing as metalheads or people who relate to having to hide their hobbies/personalities from normies. Even posers never hurted the metal community because even tho they exist, we keep them out. There is a reason you generally don't see them at our cafés and events while there is a reasonable number of them. Them buying CDs of commercialised "look at me being metal" bands and sell outs hasn't stopped underground music either. Tons of good releases this year. So why not instead of getting all annoyed at a group of people you don't like, focus at things you do like?
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>>9935127
AYRT 2/2
Learning to grunt doesn't make you any more or less metal. Many good bands use clear vocals. Many poser bands grunt. Altrough typical and common, it's not like you can't be a metal musician, let alone a metalhead in general, without it.

I rarely see woman at shows, and generally we have two types. Sluts who basically act like free hoes because they want a sexy tough metal or biker guy, or actual female metalheads. The fact you talk about woman going to shows for credit on being a metalhead is kinda rare. They tend to go only to well know or poser bands, because they can't tell the difference and don't follow non commercialised music enough to know who's good and who plays when.

If you wanted a metal band so bad you would have started one long ago. There are so much great one person bands. And if music is good, no one cares if it's a studio quality sound, or a cassette recorded in a bathtub.

Honestly, your comment sounds a bit "look at me being all metal and so much better than them". But you sound just as shortsighted as many normies, which is one of the things metalheads normally dislike. In general, your whole attitude and the things you say make me doubt how much of a metalhead you are, but one comment is a very rough view of how a person is. So I'm gonna leave it at that, just know that that's how you sound.
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>>9938363
It does feel like a losing battle, and I don't think it's a battle we should be involved in at all:
For one, we shouldn't stumble over ourselves to win people over or change their minds, whether newbies or outsiders - If someone has a preconceived notion of us that we're snobs/elitists/ageplayers or what have you, they might not necessarily change their view if we explained ourselves to them. And in that case, why bother at all?
Lolita is alternative fashion after all, it's self indulgent but at the same time it does challenge society, even on a small scale. People aren't supposed to understand us in the first place, this fashion is not for them and we don't need anyone's validation or approval. People who "get" us, or are at least willing to understand us better, are generally open minded and don't need to be "convinced" of anything; those who aren't, are not worth dealing with.

Second, we shouldn't be putting our comms in danger to put up a front of "acceptance" and "inclusiveness". We should not be compromising our safety or the integrity of our subculture so people don't call us bullies, and this goes for both people who wear garbage, call it lolita and refuse to be corrected, and for those who hide under the trans label when in actuality they want our company so they can jack off on us.

That doesn't mean we have to be mean to everyone, but the stigma around "gatekeeping" isn't justified and I genuinely think we should reject it altogether and stop being afraid to stand up for ourselves.
/blog
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facebook is the worst platform for lolita fashion. livejournal actually works better than facebook. if you complain about livejournal but you use facebook you're retarded.
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>>9939457
So what exactly was better about LJ? The only thing I hear is that it filters out the normies. I never used it so the idea of memories or saving posts in some way does sound useful. Other then that, I don't see why it was that great.
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>>9939538
Nayrt but it also had a relative sense of anonymity; not entirely because you still had your username but at least it wasn't your real name like on FB. It was also much easier to discuss things and "archive" them, unlike other platforms that aren't really used or even made for discussions; and there was a note feature that allowed you to add a comment next to people's usernames without their knowledge; afaik some people did this to "mark" people in the community with questionable behaviors.
LJ had and still does have issues, it's clunky to use and very far from flawless, but imo I prefer it to FB.
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>>9939544
What do you mean by archive?
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>>9939538
Being able to see and edit posts decently, chronological order, control over who has posting access, multiple videos and images in a post or comment, anonymous commenting without ip tracking, viewing private messages on mobile without downloading two apps, adding private notes to usernames so you know who you like and who you want to avoid, a useful sidebar
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>>9939544
>>9939604
Make LJ great again. Ive never used it before, but would give it a shot if there was a resurgence.
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>>9939628
I'm still using lj, if you have an account you see some active comms and popular entries on the homepage
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>>9939601
Well for one there's an actual archive section that you can look through to see posts organized by date; but other than that, it's super easy to find, organize, and save posts for safekeeping, like with the memories feature.
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>>9939538
I feel like there were way less sissy's there
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>>9940529
We had them occasionally but they were always permabanned immediately, and caps of their hilarious posts would get posted elsewhere (like getoffegl) for us to laugh at. Nowadays it seems like sissies and ageplayers aren't called out and gotten rid of nearly as easily so many of them are left alone to interact with us and use us as fetish fuel, as if the community in general became retarded at some point.
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>>9941404
Because we can't perma ban anyone on facebook
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>>9932175
Cosplay is declining as a hobby. It will be completely dead by 2020
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>>9941406
You mean in the technical sense, as in FB doesn't allow it, or in the social sense, as in people are too willing to bend over backwards to accept people like this?
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>>9941840
It started going downhill in 2008, and by 2012 it was all but completely dead
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I don't think it should be fair game to post just anything tagged "lolita" to the ita thread. There are plenty of outfits that get posted where the consistent feedback is "oh this is a cute normie/general jfash outfit" or "this obviously isn't lolita; it looks fine but it's not lolita"

like i think something *has* to be trying for lolita, and *has* to fail to look good. i go to ita threads to cringe, not to see cute non-lolita outfits that were mistagged
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>>9947382
Ah, I remember when I was new too.
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>>9932316

Because it's treated as if it's dirty or shameful by idiot Westerners.

Personal anecdote time: a very angry woman tailed me for a little while asking me why I was "enabling pedophiles," never once realizing that pedophiles aren't attracted to fully grown women, and I was even wearing toned-down gothic, not sweet. People are stupid and like to lash out at ~weirdos~.
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>>9947388
sounds like you haven't been to many ita threads lately if this is the conclusion you drew

it's 50% or more just nitpicks (pinks don't match, plain tights reeeeeeee, bad photography), 10% vendetta, 10% cute outfits that aren't lolita, 30% actual itas. pretty much the only place you can find true itas anymore is amino
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>>9947382

See, I actually have the opposite reaction. If someone isn’t trying for lolita and yet puts the lolita tag on their photos, then either (a) they’re a stupid idiot who, in this era of more lolita resources than ever, still hasn’t figured out what lolita is and isn’t, so they’re pretty cringe in that they’re genuinely actual stupid idiots.

Or (b), it’s a fame-hungry attentionslut so desperately hungry for attention of any sort that they’ll spam any and every tag in hopes that people will look at them. I mean, how bad is it that you gotta insert yourself into every group, every tag, every alt fash you can think of so that people can’t help but have your photo shoved at them so that they can roll their eyes at you and scroll on to the next photo, that level of desperation has to be its own kind of cringe.

I honestly wish people would stop excusing these photos with “it’s cute but not lolita”. So long as a non-lolita outfit is tagged with the lolita tag, then either this person is a lazy stupid idiot, or it’s a fame-hungry attentionwhore. Both are pretty cringe, and I wish people would recognise that instead of excusing it with “it’s not lolita”. It’s the behaviour of putting the tag on a nonlolita outfit that makes it cringeworthy.




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