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I know it's only September, but are we going to have one this year?
>>
last years Santa arranger posted that she was trying to pass on the torch so if she was successful it’ll happen, or not ?
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idk, last year wasn't too good. Cosplayers kind of got the shaft and I ended up with someone who flaked and literally only wanted brand pieces.
besides the fact that matching up 2 people directly to exchange gifts has a strong possibility to cause butthurt since you know exactly how much both of you spent, and there were a lot of callouts last time for x person not spending enough compared to their match.

I'd be for it if it was better organized, but as it was last year, it seemed more stressful than enjoyable.
>>
I really hope it happens this year- as someone who has done it for the past 4 years or however long we’ve been doing it, I’m not ready for it to die.
Last year had some issues, but then again every year does. I personally had a problem with my Santa sending my gift late, and when it arrived was not even close to the price bracket (we were in the highest one).

Last year we were able to get things up and running in October, with matches given out right before Halloween if I remember correctly. If we could do that again, that would be great.
>>
I'd really like to participate with just a snail mail swap,maybe swapping some tea or stationery or something. I can't spend too much money but I like sharing cute stuff.
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>>9988685
I'd be fine with doing it again but there were some serious issues at least last year that were never really addressed.

1 - cosplayers were told it's a jfash event so suck it up, and learn about the fashion if someone wants only brand main pieces.
2 - direct 1 to 1 gifts instead of round robin style caused butthurt about prices
3 - direct 1 to 1 gifts caused a lot of butthurt about grinches and people who never responded or verified in the thread
4 - organizers didn't really enforce rules about things like "you can't just ask for only main pieces"
5 - matches and overall experience seemed to be really skewed. Some people really loved it, and other people had a shit time being grinched and then grinched in the second set for grinched participants.
6 - there were a lot of complaints about matches not really even matching up interests. cosplayers matched with jfash and lolita instead of other cosplayers. I don't know if there was some ulterior motive or if this just managed to happen, but it seemed like they prioritized gender over anything else, leading to some bad matches.

if some of these can be fixed, that would be great but organizers seemed unresponsive to feedback.
>>
>>9988698
Not to disregard anyone's complaints but IIRC it was just one person in charge and they didn't know (somehow) it's supposed to be round robin style. I'll gladly be an assistant this year but I know I could never run it with or without help
>>
I think the problem with last year was they used some software or website or something to make matches and didn't actually check it before sending out matches? I got matched twice when I only signed up for one gift as I knew I couldn't really afford two. I had to ship one late as when I told the organisers I got a big feeling of "shit we're going to have to re-match everyone" so I just sucked it up and let my giftees know the situation. From the feedback here it sounds like that's what happened, anyway.
>>
I know I'm in the minority here but I had a really good time last year. Some of my card matches even had the same dream dresses as me and really similar wardrobes/tastes? So I didn't feel like my interests were disregarded during matching.

I hope it goes more smoothly this year for everyone involved.
>>
I personally really enjoyed the year before last. I think the organiser matched everyone manually which led to some great matches whereas last year was 1 to 1 and done by a program or something? I still enjoyed it but feedback seemed to show it was more hit or miss. I think for the next one I'd like to see:
-solid handover between organisers re:grinches, blacklist and whitelist
-google form last year was fine, but it needs more options for cosplayers and non J-fashion individuals. Tailoring the form to have certain options seems to make the matching process easier too.
-be harder on deadlines. If people can't ship something on time or at least get in touch about why they're late then they shouldn't be on the whitelist
-album of gift examples seemed to help newbies out
-either exclude non /cgl/ participants or just restrict them to lower price tiers, for obvious reasons
-the option to share social media accounts I actually really liked. Getting to see someone's current wardrobe, tastes, wishlist, etc. was very helpful and probably added some accountability to the 1 to 1 matches.
>>
I'd be totally down for doing it again this year even if last year wasn't perfect. It was my first time participating and admittedly I was one of the many silently a bit upset that I put in so much work and money into my highest tier gift but then got ehh stuff myself that I guess hit the total, mainly since I was in constant contact with my person and expected better. So I think going back to a round robin would be best. I've heard so many fun stories of people getting amazing gifts in the past though that I really want that experience (which I also try to gift others) so we shouldn't give up.
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>>9988755
I think that has to do with how matching was done. Certain people were prioritized and had great matches, but some people were left with the leftovers of grinches, unresponsive matches, etc.
personally, my match was an ouji who sent me 3 things off amazon a week after matches came out, and basically dropped off the face of the earth while I tried to figure our who Mr Yan is and what the "AATP stuff" they wanted was.
I didn't think I filled my form out wrong or gave too little info, but maybe it was because I was a double whammy of non-lolita and male that I ended up with a less descriptive match who just wanted one or two things.

you're probably not in the minority, but the type of person who is going to come back and complain is the person who was shafted by the process and had a shitty time.

>>9988754
I had the same feeling when I emailed the organizers about my match. I was afraid I was gonna get blacklisted, but the response seemed to be "we're not rematching you, so make this work, go email them instead"
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>>9988754
Last year someone requested not to receive a certain brand and got matched with the owner of that brand thanks to the software.
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>>9988761
I know that feeling well. I did my first Secret Santa last year and I spent a month and a half prepping for my matches gift. Gift wrapped, added a cute card, extras that I thought would be cute with what they wanted along with the gifts. She just sends me something random off Etsy when the deadline got really close. It irritated me to some extent, but least I did get something I guess. Made me feel like a waste of time, shipping things in so everything would be perfect, so that she got her gift before Christmas.
>>
I got grinched in my card tier but I have had so much fun doing this the last three years!
Im down to do it again! The sooner we get matches the better!
>>
We still have some time for someone to step up. But I feel we should have smaller tiers this go around. Maybe that will help with grinching?
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>>9989444
I disagree, I’m not interested in sending or receiving small packages of “filler” items, I’d much rather put the money towards a nicer, larger item for my giftee.

I believe we had a stats chart going for the past few years, and there didn’t seem to be much of a correlation between price tier and grinching, in fact I think lower tiers had proportionally more grinches.
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>>9988820
lmao what brand?
>>
I would be interested in helping set it up this year as I have done a few others for my other groups.. though I would be much more interested to set it up with a group of a couple of others helping as the delays in previous years have gotten a bit annoying..

Though I would want some info on our banned lists, previous years feedback etc to try and get it a little smoother running??

Idk, Gulls.. should I start prepping it now?? Or is last years Santa doing it again.. I don't want to steal her event, obviously..??
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wat is beign grinched? can someone explain
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>>9991406
Fuck it, I'll start it off. The earlier we start it, the smoother it will run, right? Anyone interested in helping, flick me an email.

Previous years attendees, please can you fill out this form so I can get a decent idea of what people want?

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSen9QPzmF48qRneqDARM0ShWuRUioTocVPYpm4xSFd7BDo1Gg/viewform?usp=sf_link
>>
>>9991420
>>
>>9991410
Sending a gift but not receiving one from the person you were paired up with, or receiving a very obviously shitty one.
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>>9991410
the person who was supposed to send you your gift fucked up and didn't follow the rules. Either they cheaped way out below where the agreed on amount was, were super late, didn't send it in, or some other way of not following the rules
>>
I'd be down for a cards or $10ish tier gift, but that'd be it. I've done higher tiers in previous years and put time and effort into it and feel like I haven't gotten the same consideration. Not that what I received didn't meet the price bracket or whatever, but like the person knew nothing about the styles or things I mentioned and didn't bother to do any research.
>>
One thing I actually kind of liked last year was that the algorithm was weighted in favour of people who had typed out a similar length of text for their description and interests. I didn't have a problem with my matches as we all wrote paragraphs of info. Conversely, the year before I had someone who literally wrote 2 sentences for a $50+ bracket.

I think this year we should implement a minimum description/ amount of information, at least for the higher tiers. Makes it easier for matching and for Santas.
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>>9991922
Yes, this! I forgot to write that in the form as well - that it should be mandatory to put a minimum amount of things that you like, hobbies, themes etc. as well as definite 'hard no' to give your gifter options. Also starting early is good as it means people can ask on the threads about interests etc. I think if you write nothing you shouldn't be allowed to complain about your presents.
>>
Last year I had a match who wrote 3 paragraphs of things she didn't like and next to no indication of what she DID like, meaning I had absolutely no idea what to get. Knowing what you don't like is good and helpful, but please give some idea of things you do like!
>>
I haven’t wanted to participate because I’m not interested in being matched with cosplayers or randoms from other boards (I know everyone likes that dude from /k/ or whatever but I find it creepy), so if that could be fixed i’d be down
>>
So I am working on the registration form and the list of included questions etc. Every field is mandatory and I have included compulsory answer questions rather than type your own answer for some as well.

Ideas as follows:
> General fashion type so you can at very least get an idea of what someone will be like if they give shitty answers to written questions.
> Whether you want to be paired only with Jfash, Cosplay or both
> Whether you are okay with receiving handmade/ secondhand items (which will be very specific on what can / cant be sent)
> Included the option for people to directly link items they like
> Included the option to add a social media page so matches can stalk each other.


I would like your opinion on this though,
What do you think of being required to upload a photo of photo ID and a timestamp beside it so we know for a fact who is joining? Obviously details like drivers license numbers and actual identifying photos can be edited out.. but do you think this would make grinching less likely if I were to say, then share the details of names of people who grinched? OR do you think this would be too over the top and maybe make people reluctant to join as it is a bit personal??
>>
>>9992294
Anon, do you have the blacklist from previous years? I would go through the archives and try to contact the previous organizers for the blacklist. There's also a whitelist as well.

For the fields - definitely encourage people to email each other for clarification as well. I know my match and I last year emailed each other quite often to clarify and narrow down options. The general fashion type field is okay but there should also be a likes/dislike field as well where people can elaborate on their substyles or favorite characters, as well as definite "no" items, etc. Last year there was a field where you could give examples of what you would like that weren't necessarily the EXACT items you wanted to give a sense of aesthetic? This would be a great place for like dream dress lists, cosplay plan lists, past cosplay galleries, coord layouts, pinterest boards, etc. So the gifter has a general sense of the giftee's aesthetic rather than just a straight up wishlist. The gifters then could extrapolate from the info given about what to get the giftee (a wig for a certain character cosplay then have planned, an accessory to match a dream dress, a particular type of tea, etc)

Personally, sending a photo ID to a stranger on 4chan would be wildly offputting for me. Instead you should consider what the organizer did last year and verify via social media. Have them prove a history of positive feedback through at least one of the following: ebay, lacemarket, egl_feedback, cosplay.com marketplace, LSE on FB, etc. If you want you can also ask them to provide an active social media account: facebook, twitter, tumblr, instagram, etc for cross referencing. If anyone grinches, publicly name and shame with their social media accts attached. Save their addresses on a blacklist for future organizers (don't dox them obviously) so they can cross reference to see if any grinches from past year are trying to re-enter with a new online persona/email.
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>>9992298
Sorry, I should have elaborated. Basically all of the questions you suggested adding are included already.

But I think you're right about the ID thing, you're idea sounds a little more plausible. Ill see what I can dig up from the archives and hopefully have a solid list of names. Thanks for your suggestions!
>>
>>9992294
My suggestion would be stricter grinch policy. I was grinched last year and it was quite apparent from the beginning because my match dropped all contact with me and never picked up the package. Of course keeping the package is shittier but I was still out of the shipping cost which was pretty expensive. Requiring some kind of contact before the package is shipped could decrease the amount of flakey people and to be honest I would personally feel better if I didn't have to ship something to an unresponsive person.
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>>9992326
Yeah if they never replied to me I would not have sent the gift...
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I haven't done it previously, but would there be an option to only be able to be matched to people in your own country/continent?
Asking because I always get customs and it's a pain in the ass to ship here or ship from here.
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>>9992294
If you're going to make me submit to a background check for a gift giving even t on an anonymous board that's gonna be a hard no.
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>>9992294
I think photo ID is too much.
We should have more feedback requirements (lacemarket, ebay, etsy etc feedback) and use previous years' emails and gift posts to vet though.
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>>9992355
That has been an option on previous years. Mostly USA gulls can get away with it as they will likely have relevant matches in their country, but it might work for EU too. However I've always just asked matches to greatly mark down the value of the parcel and gotten away with higher tier gifts.
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>>9992355
In the past they've had options to keep it in your country or willing to ship internationally. They even broke it down so if you just wanted to send cards internationally you could.
>>
>>9988698
I did the first year's Secret Santa and it was amazing! I think I actually mentioned it in the first place because I had been on another board that will not be named and participated in their secret santa and wondered if we could have one. I haven't been on the board in a couple of years, but I'm sad to see that last year was so underwhelming.

I'm also a cosplayer and got things that matched with my interests. Lolitas (especially who have the gall to ask for main pieces) should be matched up with each other imo. We also didn't have tiers, so I just sent my secret things that I thought she would like and spent how much I felt like (ended up being way over budget, but she posted in the thread and seemed really happy, so it was worth it).

Do you think tiers should be included? Especially if some people are going to grinch anyway?

>>9988756
>google form last year was fine, but it needs more options for cosplayers and non J-fashion individuals.
Does anyone know what the google form for the first year was? I remember that one having a lot of options for cosplayers/itabaggers as well. Lolita, being as expensive as it is, seems strange as the main focus for a secret santa.

>>9988762
>I had the same feeling when I emailed the organizers about my match. I was afraid I was gonna get blacklisted, but the response seemed to be "we're not rematching you, so make this work, go email them instead"
Yikes. Original santa anon didn't seem that rude. Did the same person who did it the first year do it last year, too?

>>9991683
I'm sorry that happened to you, anon, but I feel like that was the organizer's fault as well. I'm pretty sure the first year it was all done manually, so more people were happy with who they matched up with.

I also had no idea crossboarders participated in our secret santa. I feel like that should be discouraged. I wouldn't want to get matched up with a cook when that's not the board I'm on.
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>>9992294
Are you doing round robin or 1-on-1? With round robin, there wouldn't be a way to keep in contact with your secret santa. It would also not really be a secret, but there would be more interaction.

>>9992298
>Instead you should consider what the organizer did last year and verify via social media. Have them prove a history of positive feedback through at least one of the following: ebay, lacemarket, egl_feedback, cosplay.com marketplace, LSE on FB, etc. If you want you can also ask them to provide an active social media account: facebook, twitter, tumblr, instagram, etc for cross referencing. If anyone grinches, publicly name and shame with their social media accts attached. Save their addresses on a blacklist for future organizers (don't dox them obviously) so they can cross reference to see if any grinches from past year are trying to re-enter with a new online persona/email.
I don't really have much online feedback because I'm a cosplayer. And my social media is only professional (which I wouldn't want to give out to a channer, no offense). I don't know if there are many others like me, but that rule kind of favors people who buy and sell often (lolitas and other jfash types). It's a good idea, but I've definitely not grinched anyone but would be barred from participating.
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I now have the past couple of years of whitelists abd blacklists. So everyone whitelisted if usung the same email will receive an automatic entry to the event. I think it is still best to require a reasonable amount of feedback for higher tiers, and those who have not previously participated will be capped at the lower tiers unless providing significant feedback. Does that sound fair?

If I am understanding correctly, the general consensus is we don't want to be matched in a partner style? So X buys gift for Y and Y buys gift for X? We prefer X buys for Y and Y is buying for Z??

We also want to be able to contact our match directly? And if receiving no contact back to wait on sending the gift? This could be a good way to stop grinches receiving gifts and we could possibly arrange to have their gift then sent to someone who was grinched and received nothing.

I have added the option to say whether you are Jfash, cos, or both and whether you want to send to only Jfash, cos or both. I'm not too sure how we would manage to keep crossboarders out of the pool though? Does it seem fair to just remove them if their answers aren't /cgl/ enough?


Sorry for all the questions. I want the event to be fair on everyone and run as smoothly as a gift exchange on 4chan possibly can haha
>>
I did SS for two years, first year one gifter didn't get the same value amount and the other just grinched me. Then the next year I got nothing close to my interests even though I was really specific. So if it dies I wouldn't mind but it's nice to see it actually work for people who really put in effort into their gifts and letters.
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>>9992570
>Does it seem fair to just remove them if their answers aren't /cgl/ enough?
I'd say to kill two birds with one spoon and vet people according to the lenght of the answer. If someone goes "I'd like to receive anything!!" it's obvious they have no idea what they're doing
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I know this is a bit extreme, but how about everyone has to have their social media linked to their santa, and if they grinch, then they get publicly called out. I know it's mean but it'd deter people for sure.
>>
>I think it is still best to require a reasonable amount of feedback for higher tiers, and those who have not previously participated will be capped at the lower tiers unless providing significant feedback. Does that sound fair?

Definitely, Sounds just right to me.

>If I am understanding correctly, the general consensus is we don't want to be matched in a partner style? So X buys gift for Y and Y buys gift for X? We prefer X buys for Y and Y is buying for Z??

I prefer this massively, round robin takes the secret right out of it and a lot of the fun. X to Y to Z is much better.

>We also want to be able to contact our match directly? And if receiving no contact back to wait on sending the gift? This could be a good way to stop grinches receiving gifts and we could possibly arrange to have their gift then sent to someone who was grinched and received nothing.

This seems like a really good idea, I think everyone should provide at least 1 social media account or email they can be contacted on and then there’s no excuse for not replying. Santas can make throwaways or post in the thread and that way it’s still a surprise.

>Does it seem fair to just remove them if their answers aren't /cgl/ enough?
This might knock me out of it haha but desu it would probably work.
>>
>>9992578
I like this idea but there has to be strict rules on what a grinch is if this is the case. I.e “this person never responded, didn’t spend enough for the tier, never sent anything” etc. and not “I didn’t get the brand piece I wanted” or Santas who obviously tried but didn’t quite hit the mark - hopefully this won’t happen this year but I’ve been paired with other jfashions I know nothing about and had to research like mad and hope I did okay (they all liked everything as far as I know). Some clear definition between a grinch and someone who at least put the effort in, if that makes sense.
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>>9992570
>I have added the option to say whether you are Jfash, cos, or both and whether you want to send to only Jfash, cos or both. I'm not too sure how we would manage to keep crossboarders out of the pool though? Does it seem fair to just remove them if their answers aren't /cgl/ enough?

I do like this idea, but we'd have to leave open what's /cgl/ enough. Most cosplayers have interests that cross into /co/, /vp/, /v/, and even /mu/ territory pretty often. Lolitas are a mixed bag since their interest in the fashion doesn't have to extend Japanese culture.
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>>9992578
I don't like that idea at all. I went with all the rules last year with the understanding that I wouldn't have to make a social media account or be barred from being a part of it.
Besides, that seems like a really easy way to start vendettas
if someone thinks they get cheaper even slightly, that person knows their personal info and social media
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>>9992578
I only have professional (work) social media. I don't think I would be comfortable giving that to a random channer or salty gull.
>>
A couple more things! What do we want for price brackets?

At the moment I have $25, $50 and $100+
$50 requires you to be white listed and provide feedback, $100 requires you to be whitelisted and provide feedback with a large number of trades/ sales and they must provide a link to a social media account (which will not be shared - just used to check authenticity).

Do we want a lower bracket again? Such as $10 or $15 or is that pointless??
>>
>>9992861
sorry for the dumb question, but how do you get white listed?
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>>9992861
15$ or lower might be nicer for some of our poorer mebers who still wanna participate
>>
>>9992537
There's probably no one from my country who's joining, but while I'm entirely willing to ship to other EU countries, shipping to the US is extremely expensive from where I live, so having a Europe option would be cool.
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>>9992861
You should make them not just link the social media account, make them prove its their account with a DM or something plz.
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>>9992861
So wait what?
You have to share social media on an anonymous board? That's so bullshit
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>>9992861
Agree on having a lower tier for people who are poorer or might be using their money for other things the holiday season bvut want to participate. So maybe $15, $30, $50, and $100 being the tiers?

Oh needing to be whiteilsted AND feedback AND social media For $100+... Personally I would be whitelisted and have great feedback, but don't really do social media. Last year I was messaged on my Ebay and LM feedback to confirm the account was indeed mine, surely that would be enough? Then if I grinched my accounts I use to sell to people would be hit. I feel like that should be an option for people whitelisted, we already proved we have respondibly sent gifts in the past.
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>>9992861
I think you're going way overboard with the requirements and it's not going to reduce grinching at all.
Though it seems like lolitas find a way to make it inconvenient for non lolitas s ery year.

In this case, toi requirement that 50+ tiers require lacemaroet feedback. No one else is going to have any feedback to show you because unless you are a.commissioner, cosplayers don't buy or sell on market sites. Most cosplayers just buy from Ali and make everything else.

Why do lolitas have to do this every fucking year to try to muscle everyone else out?
>>
>>9992960
The 50 dollar feedback and whitelist requirement is retarded too, so it basically means lolitas are a bunch of salty bitches that want cosplayers to go away because what fucking cosplayer has a lacemarket account with feedback?
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>>9992963
I think the feedback can be from anywhere, pretty much everyone has an ebay account or something. It would be pretty unfair if it HAS to be lacemarket.

I think maybe make a public grinch list next time? Your name and feedback link get posted and anyone can look at it. That way they're pretty much screwed if they grinch... most people will not want to risk that.
In the end there's no real way to completely avoid grinching. Some people are just selfish assholes.
>>
>>9992965
But where are cosplayers going to get feedback? We don't do business over eBay very often. No one other than commissioners are going to have any kind of meaningful feedback from selling or buying since we either buy from larger companies or make/modify our own.

Why you lolitas gotta push us out every year?
>>
>>9992971
Board split when?
>>
>>9992971
FWIW I'm not a lolita, I'm a cosplayer. I just think most people have some sort of feedback somewhere.

Maybe there should be some sort of back up option for people who don't have feedback. A social media link or something. I'm not sure what the best idea is.
>>
>>9992974
>I'm a cosplayer
Then you should know most cosplayers don't have any feedback to show, and a lot of cosplayers don't have social media. These rules basicat force cosplayers to sit in the lowest tier even if we've been whitelisted and followed all the rules for previous years.
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>>9992974
What feedback do you think cosplayers have, besides commissioners over eBay?
>>
I’m a cosplayer and last year I just supplied my eBay account which has good feedback from buying wigs and shoes and normie shit and that worked. Also, idk what cosplay world you’re in, every cosplayer I know has an extremely active Instagram at least? Honestly people pussying out of this...are you planning to grinch?
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>>9992997
most cosplayers I've met have bought wigs and cosplay parts off either amazon or AliExpress. Neither have feedback to show unless you're a seller. I also don't have any pictures on my instagram, tumblr, or other social media because I just don't. I use them for inspo but basically never post.

I don't see why people are trying so hard for people, especially cosplayers and non-lolitas, to the point of shutting out most of them, just in the name of "anti-grinching".

then, in about 3-4 months, there will be grinches anyway, because arbitrary shit like this isn't going to prevent it. Locking everyone into some 10 dollar tier unless they're a lolita is just asinine and bullshit.
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>>9992976
>>9992977
>>9992999
Pretty much every cosplayer I know has bought shit off of ebay. Maybe it's because I've been in it so long before aliexpress/taobao/amazon were popular for wigs and stuff, but everyone used to order at least wigs off of ebay.
Also, I don't know any cosplayers who don't have social media. Maybe not every platform, but at least one.
Honestly, it doesn't seem like they're trying to push people out, but it seems like there might be a jfash person running it who is going off of their experience for it. No need to be so salty. They're just trying to protect people.
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>>9993004
I'm "being salty" because I got a shit match last year and played by the stupid rules with the understanding i'd at least be whitelisted this year. But, because I don't ahve social media and don't buy off Ebay, I don't get to be a part of anything above cards/$20 tiers, which is bullshit.
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>>9993007
I mean, it's september. You could start being active now...?
>>
>>9992861
I like this idea. For people saying you don't want your social media posted here, I don't think it will be posted here, but probably privately messaged through email. I find it best to be safe than sorry. I am honestly surprised with people that aren't active in social media or have capable feedback O_O....
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>>9992861
this is honestly a really dumb way of doing things and you're going to end up pushing a ton of people to just join secret s/a/nta instead. There's less rules, nicer people, and you don't have to deal with the threat of being doxxed if your match doesn't like your gift.
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>>9992861
Yeah, nah, I'm good.
I've done secret santa before and never grinched, but I also don't have anything but a work social media and I don't have a fucking lacemarket account because I'm not a lolita. I don't buy things on ebay, I pretty much only use aliexpress or local, and I don't have a cosplay social media because I'm not a teenager or a patreon thot. I'm not sending my work social media to a fucking 4chan random because, like >>9992615, this person not only has your address and name, but has a face to put to it. You lolitas can have your own secret santa and secretly post each other in ita threads when you don't get brand from a rando.
>>
>>9993007
I agree with this anon. These requirements heavily favor lolitas.
>>9993012
I'm not opening social media accounts and using sites I've never needed to use anymore just for a fucking secret santa event. That's fucking stupid and only someone who already uses those accounts would say something that retarded.
>>
>>9993040
I didn't even think of /a/. I'll probably join secret s/a/nta if that's the case.
>>
>>9992861
How will social media be used to check authenticity? I rarely post lolita things to my social media and in any case, my social media is all locked. These requirements are kind of odd. I think the positive feedback thing makes sense, but why do people need social media?
>>
>>9993049
I'm assuming they're going to try to check how much cosplay/lolita you post along with release it if you "grinch" someone.

but it's a really bad metric that I assume some salty lolita came up with because they don't want cosplayers or other /cgl/ people to participate, kind of like how last year any non-lolita got shafted.
>>
>>9993038
>I am honestly surprised with people that aren't active in social media or have capable feedback O_O....
Not everyone puts their lolita/cosplay/jfash shit on social media. And only lolita and certain jfash communities have a large enough secondhand market to have the feedback required for the upper tiers. Cosplayers don't typically need to use ebay because we buy what we need in bulk or from certain manufacturers. I can find a lot of fabric locally because of where I live. If I need anything specific, I hit up aliexpress or commission from someone and pay on paypal. I don't get feedback on paypal.

>>9993060
I agree, honestly. I didn't participate last year but it sounds like it was heavily jfash (read: lolita) focused if people are giving out their social media or only interacting 1on1.

You have to keep in mind that not even all of /cgl/ cosplays or wears lolita. A lot of posters just like conventions. People in the artist alley thread don't cosplay or do many jfashions. We have people who crosspost from /a/ solely for the itabag threads. And it seems like last year's santa anon and this year's attempted santa anon (>>9992861) aren't keeping that in mind, probably because they're only into jfashion.
>>
>>9993060
But not even all lolitas use social media. Retarded.

>>9993038
>I am honestly surprised with people that aren't active in social media
You're surprised that people don't enjoy posting photos of themselves or buy into "likes"/attention whoring? Even then, a lot of us use social media to interact with coworkers or family.
>>
>>9993046
> I'm not sending my work social media to a fucking 4chan random because, like >>9992615, this person not only has your address and name, but has a face to put to it.
Does anyone worry that some creepy dude with sign up and stalk you
>>
>>9992954
This linking would not be shared with anyone and would be used entirely to check that you are who you say you are.

>>9992962
>>9992963
I don't know how you have magically decided I am a lolita, or where ANYWHERE it says you have to have feedback on Lacemarket and Lacemarket only. But hey, if you want to volunteer to join a $100+ gift exchange on an anonymous image board where your match has no feedback and no way to contact them if they grinch you, sure. Sign up and I'll match you with someone from that category - let me know how it goes.

>>9992971
Have you ever sold anything through Facebook? Ever sold anything through eBay? Your sales/ trades do not have to be /cgl/ related - just to prove you aren't joining this event for the sole purpose of trying to rip people off.
Guys. NOTHING IS SET IN STONE. WE ARE STILL DISCUSSING HOW IT SHOULD RUN. At the start of the thread, everyone says "oh we should add a social media link" So I think, everyone wants to add a social media link - okay sweet. And now everyone is losing their goddamned minds about adding a social media link? The idea of the social media was NOT to check how much /cgl/ relating things you post, but was a way to get in contact with you should things go sour.. if we don't want it - I'll take it off. But for fucks sake, don't go apeshit when it was suggested earlier in the thread and people generally agreed.

People arguing about feedback - SURELY you can understand why this is required? Would you really want to do a gift exchange with someone in a $100+ category because all they did was successfully send CARDS last year?? Personally, removing feedback does not make sense to me.

I requested further up the thread that people fill out a feedback form, and well, there sure is a lot of bitching and moaning in this thread compared to how much feedback I have received.
>>
>>9993161
For the record, the blacklist I have received has about 5 names on it, some of which are clearly fake names. I can't work around JUST using the Whitelist/ Blacklist because it simply won't work when people can easily just change their names?

I want this to be a fun event which includes EVERYONE. I can't do this when all anyone is doing is complaining about eeeeeverything but offering no solutions to the problems.

Give me some solid solutions to our problems and I'll work it in.
>>
>>9993161
no, I can say as a cosplayer I have never sold anything on Ebay or facebook, I don't have any feedback on those accounts. Everything I buy is either bulk materials or from AliExpress/Amazon.

You're obsessing over grinching when it's going to happen anyway, even with these stupid rules. People don't grinch on purpose, they forget they signed up, which is going to happen no matter how many hoops you add.
>>
Former cosplayer, current lolita here. As much as we probably don’t want to admit it, the demographics of this board have changed. The reason we have more lolitas participating in this is, surprise, we have more lolitas in general. Additionally, I have a hunch that people into lolita are more likely to toss money at things vs cosplayers, but that’s another matter.

Anyways, I’m kind of in the same boat as >>9992997, like how do you cosplayers without social media keep in touch with your cosplay friends? How do you look at photos from cons? Even if it’s not a conventional social media, what about cosplay.com or something similar?

Also, instead of complaining and calling it retarded, why not suggest some alternatives? I’m sure Seagull Santa would be willing to work with you and find something that satisfies the requirement of confirming you’re a reputable person who can be contacted if necessary. And if not, there’s always /a/ and reddit lol.
>>
>>9993184
we have suggested alternatives but people like you just shout back "like lol, how do you not buy cosplays on Ebay?"
how are cosplayers supposed to participate if you require social media AND whitelist AND feedback from selling if we're not a seller and don't buy off ebay?

Our suggestion is to get rid of the stupid requirements. If you want to make the highest tier require ONE method of verification I guess that's fine, but the amount you're proposing is beyond retarded
>>
>>9993163
>"I can't work around JUST the whitelist/blacklist"
why not, every other one in the past has?
>>
>>9993161
>>9993163

Bless you Santa, I am behind you 100% and appreciate the clarification on various matters for those who are jumping to conclusions and screeching.

>>9993183

That’s the thing though, I think there are ways to entirely prevent it. How the fuck do you forget you signed up for this when the organizers send out reminder emails, people are constantly bumping the thread, your match emails your or posts something for you on here, etc. If you’re the type to just forget you signed up for this, just don’t bother signing up.
>>
>>9993191
none of those proposed ways do anything to prevent it, they prevent people from signing up.

Current year's santa seems pretty incompetent from the start lmao, already ignoring feedback and started up a little hugbox
>>
>>9993161
>everyone said this
one person said this, you ran with it and said you were 100% going to do it and ignored the people saying it's a bad idea
>SURELY can't you understand
no, you put all these restrictions on everything except cards
>feedback form
never saw it
>>
>>9993161
First of all Santa calm down, of course people are going to have different opinions on an anonymous imageboard. You've signed up for a difficult event to run so expect tonnes of bitching.

Re:social media I think last this was more to give santas an idea of their giftee's tastes, but now some people are running away with it as a means to hold grinches accountable. Using social media for verification or contact or shaming could yield mixed results as some people don't have social media or feel uncomfortable sharing it. That said, there has to be some trust between the organiser and santas and if someone doesn't trust you with their name and address, and some evidence of online presence then maybe that's a red flag. Good luck sorting this one out.

Also ignore those bozos screaming about feedback. Just having and ebay or lacemarket, or fb album, or anything similar with feedback, which you can message them about and have them reply, is enough. If these people have never bought or sold anything on the internet then should they really be tasked to give gifts?
>>
>>9993187

Whitelist was implemented a few years ago for the purpose of ‘unlocking’ higher tiers. Everyone had to have at least one year of a successful lower tier to move up to the higher tier(s). Whitelist is not a primary verification, but more like a secondary verification.

I would be alright with switching social media for an active email account, but I still am curious about the possibility of some sort of fininacial feedback from online buying or selling. Is there a way we could verify PayPal accounts?
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>>9993200
>bozos
where am I supposed to have feedback then?
I don't buy cosplays from Ebay
I don't buy cosplays from facebook
I am not a commissioned
I am not a Lolita, I don't have a lacemarket
where am I supposed to get this magic feedback that apparently is required to be a part this year? This was never required in the past if you were whitelisted
>>
>>9993183
Frankly forgetting to give a gift or deliberately not giving a gift are equally as idiotic in my eyes.

Also about the X gives to Y gives to Z, there have still been reciprocal matches in past years because people had the same husbando or something which they seemed to enjoy. I'm not sure I'd exclude mutual matches entirely.
>>
>>9993183
Have you participated in the past so you would be on the current whitelist? I want to make it fair to everyone but I don't feel comfortable opening up a $100+ gift tier for people who can't provide proof of honest transactions. While you may have good intentions, there will be a lot of others who see this as an opportunity to get something for "free"

>>9993189
In the past we required feedback though, have we not? What is your suggestion if we only used the Whitelist? People on there can pick any category with no feedback? People not on there are still restricted? Ban anyone from the event whose name is on the Blacklist which is practically useless anyways because fake names and such..

>>9993191
Thank you

So lets go over what people seem to want again?
> $15 no feedback/ no white list
> $30 no feedback/ no whitelist
> $50 no feedback/ on the whitelist?
> $100 feedback/ on the whitelist?

Alternatively, feedback can be made optional and those with feedback will only be matched with others with feedback?
>>
>>9993205
>I don't want to open up a high tier to people who were whitelisted
that was the whole fucking point of the whitelist in the first place
>we required feedback in the past
we did NOT. People were allowed to bypass the whitelist if they had a decent amount of feedback on lacemarket or Ebay, but it was never a requirement if you were already whitelisted

Whitelist is also only traditionally the highest tier
>>
>>9993200
>If these people have never bought or sold anything on the internet then should they really be tasked to give gifts?

Honestly, this! This is the core issue! It’s not like we’re banning them from sending cards or small gifts either, but how is someone who has never sent a package going to figure out buying niche, non-counterfeit items online and then sending them (possibly internationally) in the span of about a month?

Which reminds me, Santa is there going to be a rule against counterfeit and replica items this year like there was last year?
>>
>>9993207
>not having an Ebay or lacemarket means you're shady and have never bought anything online

do you think before you type?
>>
>>9993207
>never sent a package
>on the whitelist but no feedback
>"oh whoops, even though you were here multiple years and always followed the rules, you're not a lolita, so you're not trustworthy!"
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>>9993205
I like this tier list, and the requirements for the information.

>feedback can be made optional and those with feedback will only be matched with others with feedback?
This might be the best solution for the cosplayers who don’t have feedback.
I think ideally we would match whitelisted people together at all tiers, as that would be beneficial and somewhat reward those on the whitelist.
>>
>>9993205
why would feedback be required now when it's never been required in the past? shouldn't a whitelist be good enough for the highest tier, with everything else open to anyone?

also, you're going to run into an issue matching people if you add a lot of things like "feedback people only matched with feedback people", since the last santa could barely find enough matches when they allowed "only matched with people in your own country". adding extra restrictions is only going to make it harder to match with the small number of people who sign up, along with the fact that if you follow through with adding extra restrictions, you're going to have an even smaller group of people to work with.
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>>9993210
>cosplayers treated as 2nd class citizens because a lolita is organizing again
maybe secret s/a/nta isn't a bad idea like that one anon said
>>
>>9993206
Look. I want to work with you to create a good event but you need to listen to what I am saying. People were put on the Whitelist just for sending cards. Do you REALLY want to open a $100+ gift exchange to people on an Anonymous image board simply because they successfully sent 1 Christmas card 2 years ago? If that is what people want - I will do it. But to me it sounds really fucking dumb to do a gift exchange and not require some form of feedback on a $100 gift. You can still send a $50 gift if youre on the Whitelist and have no feedback. I am not barring people from that. But asking to send $100 gifts with no feedback is a bit iffy to me?? Are you comfortable doing an exchange with someone with ZERO form of identification/ contact outside of a throwaway email simply because their name is on a good list?

>>9993207
Yes, I have copied over the majority of the FAQ from last year.
Guys, the Whitelist does not tell me what people sent in the past. All it tells me is that their people/ person received what they sent, be it a $100 gift or a $2 card. Do you want to let anyone on this list send any gift with no proof of person/ solid way to contact them?
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>>9993195
>Current year's santa seems pretty incompetent from the start lmao, already ignoring feedback and started up a little hugbox
Really. Santa, if you don't know board culture and didn't expect this to happen, don't run it. Easy. /a/ does this event fine every single year without their s/a/nta sperging out because people voice concerns.

>>9993200
>If these people have never bought or sold anything on the internet then should they really be tasked to give gifts?

Are you really that retarded? No one up there said they'd never sold or bought anything online. But the avenues that would require feedback are not typically used by actual cosplayers (sorry we don't buy our shit on ebay). You've had people in this thread literally say what they use and ignored it because you're probably used to stirring drama.

>>9993203
This. Just split the board already, lolitas are so egotistical they literally can't see shit any other way.

So, what do you want? My amazon reciepts? Just showing that I've bought a garment steamer on amazon doesn't really answer your concerns.

>>9993208
>>9993209
This. What we're saying is that lolitas are given preferential treatment because, as long as they buy secondhand (which is basically guaranteed in lolita fashion) they will automatically be whitelisted. Cosplayers don't have that same luxury.
>>
>>9993210
>This might be the best solution for the cosplayers who don’t have feedback.
So we're demoted to shit tier because we have a hobby that doesn't revolve around trading? What the fuck?
>>
Hi everyone! I just wanted to give some clarification on last year. I’m sorry that a lot of you were upset/hurt/were unhappy with your matches, and I hope there are just as many that enjoyed last year as well. I appreciate new Santa for stepping up, as I spent hours and hours and HOURS emailing, verifying lacemarket/eBay, matching, verifying gifts for the whitelist, and doing grinch checks and I know she will too. I just want to address some of the comments and I hope this instills some trust that new Santa will make positive change!

>SS is supposed to be done round robin, not 1 on 1.

I sincerely didn’t know that, as I hadn’t participated in any of the CGL secret santas prior. That’s my biggest mistake and I apologize again.

>Matching was done by software

Yes, but that is not an excuse. It was a tool. So I could search “classic” and all the classic lolitas would come up and I could read through and pair them, however all matching was manually done by me, hosted and managed in a spreadsheet created by me. It just made matching much easier and helped me narrow things down and create better matches.

>Cosplayers were matched with Lolitas

There are so few cosplayers compared to lolitas and J-fashion aficionados that that is bound to happen, especially since we have price tiers. Ultimately, if you wrote a novel and wrote helpfully for your Santa I attempted to pair you with someone who put just as much time and effort into the process, because I felt like those people would also put more effort into their gifts. After likes & interests that was my main matching methodology.


At the end of the day, this is not a science, there’s no perfect answer and perfect way to match everyone, because everyone’s different. Someone is going to be grinched, someone is going to give half-assed gifts, and it’s sad but it’s a shame. I have given this year’s organizer everything I could, including an updated whitelist and blacklist. Please be kind to her!
>>
>>9993217
What is your solution. All you've done it bitched.
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>>9993161
I support this, especially now I'm seeing all these butthurt comments about how having a social media must mean I'm an attention whore or looking to show off. I'm not even a lolita or a cosplayer. So I would rather not be paired with someone who complains so easily and dramatically like that.
But feedback may be harder for people who don't buy on ebay or sites were the buyers can't get feedback. Maybe have an option for people to check who don't mind if their pairing doesn't have feeback?
>>9993213
>>9993048
please join the /a/ secret santa so we dont have to deal with people like you, thanks.
>>
>>9993216
I personally do not want whitelist only for the $100 tier. Whitelist and at least one other verification would be my strong preference.

Maybe matching based on feedback would be something to try this year.
>>
>>9993224
4 tiers
Cards only - no limit, no req
10-25 dollars - no limit, no req
30-50 dollars - max of 2, no req
100+ dollars - max of 2, must be on whitelist or have feedback
>>
>>9993225
>I'm not even a lolita or a cosplayer.
So you're not one of the people who the board was created for, yet you feel the need to whiteknight and ignore the concerns of the board's demographic. Sounds about right.
>>
Last year's tiers we're not bad, it was just the 1-1 matches
>>
>>9993213
>>9993217
You're more than welcome to flick me an email and actually help? /a/ works because everyone is on the board for the same reason, /cgl/ has so many different reasons people come here and it makes it very hard to please everyone.

>>9993195
I don't particularly appreciate being called incompetent because you're not getting your own way. I've completely changed everything around regarding feedback and identification to try and favor our entire board. I have run several Secret Santa events online in the past where I required all participants to have feedback and successfully had no one grinched in any of these events, so my apologies for wanting to do a similar thing here. This does not feel remotely like a hugbox to me, more like a slaughter house?

We want the Whitelist to be opened up for every tier and I have tried to do this. Social media is no longer required because no one wanted to be doxxed. Im trying to work with you guys, but you're putting words in my mouth whilst simultaneously screaming at each other and not actually offering any solutions.

So what people want is anyone on the Whitelist can participate in ANY tier? Regardless of the value of the item they sent in previous years? Are people who are moaning about being excluded even going to participate in the $100+ tier, or is it just that you feel like you're being excluded?
>>
>>9993229
are you retard???
There are threads here for conventions, artist alley, Ita bags, Idol/ dance cover groups, j-fashion, skincare, makeup.
I assure you that there are not just lolita and cosplayers looking to participate in the secret santa.
>>
>>9993236
Yes, that is how the whitelist has always worked. That's why we had it in the first place
>>
>>9993239
>>9993228

Okay. Thank you! These are the clear answers I wanted.
>>
>>9993221
And for the record, I’m a cosplayer and not a lolita at all (although I’m a fan of cute fashion), so I definitely didn’t favor one side over the other. But when the participants skew so heavily in one direction, you have to admit it makes more sense to base some rules and guidelines with that in mind!
>>
>>9993239
You keep saying this anon, but please provide me proof. I’m pretty sure that is not how it worked, and that whitelist was only used to qualify for higher price tiers. Last year we still had to provide a feedback link that we had to reply to a message on, even if we were on the whitelist. If you can actually get me some sauce, I owe you an apology.
>>
>>9993247
Last year feedback was not required, only if you wanted to be whitelisted and weren't already
>>
>>9993247
Different anon but I was in the highest tier last year and was never told to fill out any feedback. Don't know if it was a hiccup on the organizer's part or if it was what >>9993249
said but yeah I never did one last year.
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>>9993252
Anon they mean seller feedback, not a forum evaluation of the event
>>
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>>9993254
Oh shit my bad. I thought they meant a feedback form at the end. I'll see myself out
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>>9993247
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18JzMNOoNwv9XJxO6N7XJl7kqFYI8RjmdvAEJ5jljN_c/edit
is from last year's organizer

https://rbt.asia/cgl/thread/9624803/#q9629869
also has that year's organizer posting that top level tiers are limited to only people who give feedback or were on the whitelist
>>
>>9993249
>>9993252
>>9993247

Can confirm. Last year I allowed people to be in the highest tier if they provided feedback IF they were not already on the whitelist. I contacted them on Lacemarket, eBay, etsy, etc.! If they were already on the whitelist, it was fine. One or two people had to be bumped down to a smaller tier because I could not verify feedback for them.
>>
>>999326
>>9993247
also, just to be clear, I fucking hate when people do this stupid shit. They ask for proof in the middle of a discussion/argument where no one was using proof up until that point. It makes whomever you ask stop posting and dig for an hour till they find a post they remember, or continue with people calling them out for no proof.

in essence, it's a shitty tactic people like to use so they can make someone fuck off for about an hour and declare themselves the winner
>>
>>9993247
>>9993265
Well even though >>9993267 thinks I’m retard now thanks for getting this. My apologies and I’m sorry, and now I can fuck off. Not sure what the other post they quoted was as that one was not me and was deleted.
>>
>>9992863
Having successfully done a previous exchange gets you on the whitelist.
>>
>>9992863
as other people have said, it means you have to clear a year by following all the rules, you post pics and reply to your santa and thank them.
Or if you have a decent amount of reputation built up, it past years you could make a case to the santa to be added manually
>>
>>9993336
that post was me too, I hated the fact that I had to stop and wait until I finished errands, got home, and searched for the posts in the archives to satisfy you saying "sauce?" once. Hell, we even had the santa from last year in the thread even though they don't have their trip on.
>>9993266
>>9993221

you could have literally just asked and gotten the answer there.
>>
>>9988689
This is a nice idea anon, although in previous years there's always been a card tier. I usually add a little gift with each of my cards so you could just do that.
>>
I would love to participate again this year! I’m not sure if I’ve been white listed from last year, I sent my gift but never got one back, so am unsure if this counted as a “successful” trade? Also regarding the feedback, I would personally not want to trade with someone in a $100+ tier that had absolutely no feed back, especially after being grinched last year (regardless of lolita or cosplay, since I’m into both!!)
>>
>>9993205
>$15 tier No Requirements
>$30 tier No Requirements
>$50 tier Whitelist OR Feedback
>$100 tier Whitelist and Feedback
Honestly if you have no feedback whatsoever from ANYTHING then I don’t want to trade $100+ with you. I’m a cosplayer, not a lolita and this is not elitist/pushing anyone out imo, surely you can provide Ali feeeback or SOMETHING
>>
>>9993528
agreed, if you have no online feedback you have no business with this kind of exchange at those price ranges.
>>
>>9993528
>Ali feedback
Ok I'm convinced you're not a cosplayer now
>>
>>9993551
Sorry, by Ali “feedback” I mean like, their Member Centre function.
Also more than just cosplayers use Ali lol
>>
secret santa anon, you said not many people have replied to your google form, but when you posted it I assumed you were just asking for people who had participated previously. do you want the rest of us to fill it out as well? either way thank you for your hard work!!
>>
>>9993528
I agree with this. Honestly I recommend Santa go ahead with organising it how they have suggested because everyone bitching will either find some way to get feedback, settle for a lower tier or fuck off.

>also if you don’t have a social media for friends but you’re on cgl enough to want to participate in secret Santa, yikes
>>
>>9993236
Sorry but from how you're operated until now, you do come off as incompetent.
You can't seem to come up with a good reason why we shouldn't follow previous year's rules other than some abstract "stop grinching" bs that no one has any idea how it's gong to go.
you only seem to take feedback from people who compliment you, and say nice things about your ideas, even though if you look, a ton of them like >>9993574 are only suggesting extra requirements "for the lulz" or "for the butthurt".

You're listening to people who aren't even cosplayers or lolitas, you're listening to trolls who want to make this exchange as hard to be a part of as possible so that it fails.
I can't see why you're listening to people who's entire motivation is to piss off other people, or why advice from the last year's organizer, who's itt, and people who were a part of it last year and previous years, just falls on deaf ears because it's not what you wanted to hear.

We have offered solutions, but you just plug up your ears like a child refusing to hear anything that isn't sugar coated compliments directed towards you. It seems you have a very clear direction you wanted to take this from the start, previous year's santa and participants be damned, you want to listen to crossboarders and itabaggers.

Fine then
>>
>>9993574
>If you don't have a social media, yikes
he says on the anonymous forum for people who don't like to share personal details.
>>
>>9993577
Yeah, I'm >>9993574 and I've participated every year since it started up. I'm a cosplayer who's only feedback is eBay purchasing (I've never sold anything anywhere) and I agree with Santa so far. I don't see why "you can't send a higher tier gift without some feedback or verification" is causing such grief. It's perfectly reasonable, especially if as Santa has says the whitelist has no details of what the person sent in previous years. I wouldn't want a match who kicked up such a fuss about this, because desu they would look like they were planning on grinching. That's just the fact of it.

Social media I thought was brought up as a good way to look at someone's style and communicate and then it somehow got twisted into "I'm going to get doxxed and fired" and it's getting a bit silly.
>>
>>9993603
>"if you don't buy through ebay, facebook, or lacemarket, you're not trustworthy, even if you were whitelisted, and even though this was the whole reason we made the whitelist in the first place"
I just disagree here, anon, this seems to disproportionately kick cosplayers out because we make our own cosplays and buy in bulk instead of secondhand like lolitas or itabaggers

>"how it evolved into 'I'm gonna get doxxed'"
it did that because that was the idea santa listed when he posted it in the thread, that he would hold people's social media and if they didn't give a satisfactory gift, it would be released. That's probably one of the hands down dumbest things I've ever heard, to have a gift exchange where someone better spend X amount of dollars above the tier or get doxxed by some salty anons online.

In fact, all of this drama about the whitelist not being good enough seems silly to me. We didn't have major issues in how it was run last time with grinching, so I don't see why it's not good enough this year.
All of this bs about trying to discourage people from signing up because you think you're not going to get exactly what you want is incredibly comical considering it's a gift exchange for christmas, you know? the selfless christian holiday that's supposed to be about the joy of giving to other people, but cgl has turned into a bunch of salty, selfish brats that are obsessed with getting theirs constantly.

I don't think I've ever seen a single secret santa get this autistic about rules and regulation, not even reddit, or /a/, or any other board.
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>>9993616
Christmas is about giving for sure but people don't typically participate in these things to just hand presents to people. If they simply wanted to do that, they could just find a random cosplayer/lolita in the wild and give them lots of presents. It's a gift EXCHANGE. You GIVE and you RECEIVE. Half the fun is getting something cool, and the other half is seeing how excited and happy someone else is to get the gift you picked out for them. Getting grinched sucks.

I'm neutral on the whitelist. I see your points. I just think that not wanting to get taken advantage of by shitty people so they get free things isn't being salty, selfish, or bratty. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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>>9993650
My point is we already have the whitelist to make sure people are trusted first. I don't see the point in adding a second whitelist of whitelisted people that are trusted to sign up, it makes no sense to go that far.
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>>9993653
It seems like Santa is trying to see the whitelist wasn’t done that well in the past and didn’t detail the tiers - someone sending cards doesn’t mean they’ll be able to send a $100+ gift so a whitelist and feedback should be used together for the higher tiers. It’s not Santa’s fault the whitelist isn’t as detailed as maybe we thought. That’s what I’m seeing.
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>>9993574
Why is not having or not being very active on social media so strange?
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>>9993660
Old santa here--it's just a list of names, from the first exchange until now. I just added on to what was given to me. But I provided her with the matchlist from last year so she can cross-reference addresses and tiers from 2017 at least if she wishes to prevent someone from the blacklist sneaking back in under a different game.
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>>9993660
you have the anon last year who ran it in here saying that's false. Santa has all the information to rule out card tiers if they want to, but for some reason wants this weird lacemarket restriction.

honestly I can't figure out why it wasn't good enough in the past that this anon thinks they need to completely change the format.
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>>9993681
NYART but the old Santa literally just said that she only gave the addresses and tiers from LAST year to current Santa. Unless you're terrible at reading comprehension - that doesn't mean she can hold every name on the whitelist accountable.

You act like every single year has been perfect in the past with the existing rules when in fact a bunch of seagulls ended up getting grinched. I think it's nice that the current Santa is open to trying something new to see if it'll cut down the number of grinches. Obviously there is no perfect answer that will satisfy everyone but the rules that she has suggested does not seem wildly ridiculous to me. Most people in this day and age do have social media. And even if you've only bought things on eBay - that should be fine because it still proves your trustworthiness to an extent (like paying on time). When I had to provide my ebay feedback, I honestly had mostly buying feedback on there. It's still something tangible to show accountability than nothing.

People keep bringing up this hypothetical of "what if I get doxxed because my recipient doesn't like my gift"?? I feel like releasing someone's social media info should only happen if that person fails to send a package altogether. Public blacklists like this exist in multiple online buying/selling communities and exist to protect the community. I'm not saying Santa should leak their physical address or anything. But signing up just to receive a gift and not sending one is basically scamming and posting their online moniker + the email they used isn't the same thing as doxxing.

Before someone screeches about how I must be a lolita who doesn't give a shit about cosplayers - I cosplay, wear lolita, and have itabags.
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>>9993703
my point is I was told last year if I stuck with the bad match I had, played by the rules, and went on the whitelist I could be in the upper tiers this year.
I don't have a lacemarket, ebay, facebook, or other seller rep because i am not in a hobby that revolves around secondhand purchases. I don't have a social media, or my cosplay accounts don't have pictures because I just don't feel like it most of the time. I feel like this is unfairly punishing people who are not lolitas or who don't live their lives on social media.

It's pushing away well-meaning people who don't get a chance to participate even though they did in previous years and followed all the rules, just because of some abstract "Grinch" boogeyman.

Guess what anon? we have grinch checks and white day for a reason, there will never be a year without grinches because there's no way to completely shut them out. but what you're proposing shuts out legitimate people who wouldn't grinch for no reason other than being petty that I'm not a lolita and I don't use social media.

It's insanely petty and small of you, especially concerning the giving spirit of christmas that this exchange was about.
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>>9993703
>the whitelist is garbage all of a sudden because I say so
you really are a stupid, salty lolita anon
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>>9993703
what you feel isn't what the santa feels. This year's santa has expressed the idea that social media links will be released if a gift is insufficient.
considering the number of anons bitching last year because their match didn't go above the tier limit, it's goign to lead to a ton of doxxing.

Posting their social media account, linked to their real name and address is a dangerous formula for a board so wrapped up in pettiness and doxxing that admins had to step in and shooo people away to a new chan
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>>9993712
I don't understand how you decided that I wanted to discriminate against you because you're a cosplayer??? I just... mentioned that I also cosplay. And as I mentioned it's less about having "seller's feedback" it's just about any feedback at all. I only use eBay to buy stuff like wigs, buttons/parts, and normie accessories. Feedback is feedback it doesn't just have to show that you are a reliable seller just that you can be reliable at all regardless of whether its selling or buying. I really like the idea from >>9993561 about maybe providing a screenshot of your Aliexpress member screen if you don't have feedback elsewhere?

It really sucks that you got a bad match last year, anon. But you need to take a deep breath and stop taking everything so personally. The people who are making suggestions aren't doing it to specifically target you and discriminate against you. My point was that it just seems like most people assumed people on this board would have working social media and feedback due to the nature of our hobbies. I can see where you're coming from but also try to understand why others may want extra security especially if they have been grinched in the past. It seems like people were discussing the idea of matching people with feedback/social media with other people who provide feedback/social media while leaving higher tiers open for everyone on the whitelist? This seems like the best compromise so people like you can still participate in the higher tiers but those who want the extra security will only be matched with people who provide feedback.


>>9993713
If you could follow conversations, you would see that I'm talking about Santa's concerns that giving a card successfully in the past doesn't necessarily equate to being able to give a gift successfully. But project all you want!
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>>9993719
Sorry but can you point me to where Santa says that? Because all I've seen this year's Santa do is be receptive to criticism.

>9993161
>This linking would not be shared with anyone and would be used entirely to check that you are who you say you are.
>NOTHING IS SET IN STONE. WE ARE STILL DISCUSSING HOW IT SHOULD RUN

>9993236
>Social media is no longer required because no one wanted to be doxxed.

Where in all of this thread does Santa say that she plans on doxxing people for "insufficient gifts"?

It seems like we're arguing over the same shit over and over again even though Santa has already clarified that she just wants opinions/guidance and even said social media isn't a requirement anymore?
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>>9993726
the whole point is this seems to unevenly and unfairly target cosplayers because cosplayers are way less likely to have social media they are willing to share and less likely to have built up feedback because their hobby doesn't revolve around buying secondhand. People who make their own cosplays have no way of satisfying your dumb requirements which is what I have been trying to drive home. It seems like the people pushing for this are all lolitas with lacemarkets and a huge history or cosplayers who buy everything off Ebay. I don't even think AliExpress has feedback, since I never get anything back from sellers when I buy things, and I've only bought a few items on there.

The fact is you don't see the issue because you're a lolita and have the feedback already, so you get to do whatever you want. but for someone who's been on this board for years, been a part of the exchange multiple times, and doesn't buy cosplays, it sucks A LOT. and it really seems like you're just descriminating like every year when this comes up. A lolita or Itabagger takes control of this exchange, shuts out cosplayers, and we get told we're salty or whatever when we say it's unfair because we follow all the rules, and every year there's another rule that gets put in place that affects cosplayers way more than everyone else.
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>>9993726
you know that adding a feature where feedback people only match with other feedback people is going to create another "cosplay tier" of the top tier where cosplayers are gonna get shit matches or be told they're unmatchable right?
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>>9993740
If there's this many cosplayers who have no social media and no feedback like length of this thread is showing, then you'll all get matched together, surely?
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>>9993745
But the point is that they'll be shut out of the higher tiers.
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>>9993745
Why do we even need to have that in the first place? do something like say only people with non-card tier whitelistings from last year can be whitelisted unless they give feedback if you don't trust it or something, but I still don't see why a whitelist isn't good enough that you need a second whitelist of whitelisted people or you can't trust them to buy and send a simple gift. No other Secret santa has needed this at all. /a/ sure as hell doesn't need this, and they have way fewer issues, so I don't see how you think this is going to do anything except act out your issues with cosplayers, because apparently lolitas are salty and don't want us on this board.
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>>9993747
>>9993726
>It seems like people were discussing the idea of matching people with feedback/social media with other people who provide feedback/social media while leaving higher tiers open for everyone on the whitelist?
>higher tiers open for everyone on the whitelist
And it seems like there's a LOT of cosplayers here saying they want to do higher tiers and have no feedback or social media so yeah, if enough say "I want a $100 match but I have no feedback" they would just be matched with someone else in the same situation.
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>>9993745
how about you post your own suggestions instead of complaining about mine. I posted mine way back about what i would want for the tiers and what has worked in the past. Not a single person has replied except one idiot calling me out and making me go back into the archives for "sauce".
>>9993228
no one has said why this isn't good enough when it was good enough in the past.
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>>9993750
You're the missing the part where Santa and past Santa literally said the whitelist is just names. We have no idea what tier anyone was in from previous years. It's just names by the sound of it, and last year's matches which actually to be honest should be enough.

>>9993677


I've never worn lolita in my life, I'm a cosplayer.
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>>9993738
>cosplayers are less likely to have social media
I’m gonna have to give you a hard disagree on that one, buddy.
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>>9993753
you seem to not be able to read what santa wrote then.
>>9993677
>I also provided matches so she can cross reference to determine tiers

>I've never worn lolita in my life
doubtful, since the people in here seem to be for shutting cosplayers out of this event by making these arbitrary decisions that cosplayers on the whitelist aren't good enough
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>>9993754
agree to disagree then but I don't have any social media with cosplay pictures on it, and out of my friends that cosplay, only maybe 2 of 20-25 have one with cosplay pictures on it that they use more than once every 6 months.

Just because you have something doesn't mean everyone does, especially on a forum designed for anonymity, don't you think it's fairly common to have people who don't like posting their life on the net?
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>>9993756
I’m not talking about you and your friends, I’m talking about the majority, which is what you were referring to. you =\= everybody else
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>>9993760
from my point of view and my age of cosplayers, it is the majority anon
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>>9993760
it doesn't even matter, because santa has said social media is 100% out the window due to doxxing concerns.
This discussion now is why isn't the whitelist good enough and why do cosplayers have to buy hundreds of dollars in stuff to try to show "financial proof" when lolitas just show their lacemarket account and get in.
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>>9993738
Anon, I've been cosplaying for way longer than I've worn lolita (I literally own just a couple of pieces that I started buying last year). I've also been on this board for years and participated in this exchange multiple times. I fundamentally disagree with you that this is designed to "unfairly target cosplayers". Most of my cosplay friends have public social media and they have feedback from buying parts (wigs, accessories, shoes) from eBay. Aliexpress doesn't have feedback but the anon up thread was suggesting the member or order page which should show that you've successfully made online transactions before thus establishing reliability.

I'm sorry to say that not all cosplayers are you. Honestly, have you considered running the Secret Santa event if you're so upset that lolitas and itabaggers "take control" of the exchange?

>>9993751
Exactly, if there are multiple cosplayers who want to participate in the $100+ tier who are on the whitelist with no feedback then that shouldn't be a problem? It seems like the best compromise. Make the $100+ tier open to all whitelist members, but add an option where participants of that tier can choose to match with feedback members only if they want extra security.

>>9993740
I thought a huge problem people had last year was that they were a cosplayer matched with a lolita/jfash person? If there are other whitelisted no-feedback $100+ tier cosplayers as this thread seems to suggest - wouldn't you prefer being matched up with those people? Not to mention this year is round robin instead of 1-1 match. So even if there are 3 people in the "cosplay tier" , it would be A buys for B, B buys for C, C buys for A instead of one person being told they're unmatchable.
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>>9993755
>>9993753
>and last year's matches which actually to be honest should be enough.
Jesus Christ. Take a minute. I actually agree and think the $50 + tier should be for whitelisted people from last year and $100+ should be for whitelisted people from last year OR feedback. I may be wrong but it seems like this year's Santa only recently got the full match list too.

>>9993762


You seem to think people are deliberately hating cosplayers but people are just nervous of people who are unwilling to provide verification. You're telling me you've never bought anything online, ever? This is not a personal vendetta against you. No-one expects you to do what you're saying. You say no-one listens to your suggestions, what feedback could you provide? Do you have Paypal? Do you have any online accounts anywhere?
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>>9993766
the only time I buy cosplay gear online in a way that could be tracked is on Ali and i have 3 purchases on it. Paypal is not something I'm giving, especially not one linked to my financial information. That is too much information.
Everything else I make, and i buy the supplies mostly from brick + mortar stores so there's not a place for me to track it.

That's why I'm so frustrated and why other people are too. We are a part of this board and have been for a while, but because we don't have the same hobby as you.
I don't know what verficiation there is for me to give? an Ali Account with 3 purchases totaling $250? that's about it since everything else is either personal accounts or tied to my accounts directly and I'd never give those out because of doxxing concerns.

We're frustrated because ti seems like 3 types of people are pushing for these
>Lolitas, who have extensive lacemarket history
>Itabaggers with Ebay history from buying bags
>Cosplayers who don't make cosplays and buy everything on Ebay
anyone not in these groups is hugely and disproportionately affected by this rule being put into place., and it feels extremely unfair to follow the rules and be told you're not good enough to participate now because you don't buy things online enough.
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>>9993765
As you always say in your posts, people have multiple hobbies, so the difference here is you're going to be put in the "premium" 100+ tier. Maybe you have a really good match in the "pleb" 100+ tier, you won't get that person and instead both will get a worse match. That was the problem last year is the santa last year did this with men+women. I was assigned to a certain ouji because I was a guy, but had literally nothing in common with him. He literally only wanted AATP brand pieces and I had never bought anything like that before. Luckily he never complained but that was beyond stupid to have some restriction like that.
and I'm starting to see the same pattern showing this year with cosplayers vs lolitas and trying to section off the "undesirables" as much as possible, which sucks as one of those people that's getting unfairly targeted.
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>>9993771
No-one has ever said an Aliexpress account would not be usable or there was a requirement on how much should be spent there. That has been your assumption. There you go, that's verification. It's really not as complicated as you think.
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>>9993774
That's literally not how that would work. People can opt in to provide feedback if that's what they want. Are you also this angry about people who choose to ship to gulls in their country only? Because an international person might be a better match for you but they chose "domestic only" so they won't be matched with you? It's the same principle. It's an OPTION that people can choose if that is their preference.

A gender matching preference is not even remotely the same thing as a feedback matching preference. Stop reaching.

>>9993771
People who make their own cosplays still sometimes buy wigs and shit off of eBay. As >>9993778 said your Aliexpress history works FINE as verification so I'm not sure why you're repeating the same thing that's been clarified already?
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Anybody got that compilation pic of the dude from /k/ who joined the secret santa, but had no idea what he was doing?
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One thing I don't understand is, how does buyer feedback from eBay prove that I'm trustworthy ? All it's gonna show is that I bought like 3 rubber straps and 2 kimonos and that I have enough brain capacity to buy shit online.
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>>9993935
Now that you mention it though, I don't know what it really shows if it's expanded to any marketplace online. If someone buys a bunch of wigs online does that mean they're less likely to try to scam someone else out of a free gift?
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>>9993183
go cry me a river
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>>9993203
get fucked
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>>9993945
>>9993949
low quality posts anon, maybe try adding something to the conversation instead of being a salty sally! :D
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>>9993703
>I feel like releasing someone's social media info should only happen if that person fails to send a package altogether.

It shouldn't' happen at all. That shouldn't be something that any of us have to worry about when we're doing something for fun on an anonymous image board. Maybe the organizers can handle social media and personally message and tell that anon they're blacklisted if they don't give updates, but essentially doxing someone is 0 to 100 when there are a few steps we could take before that.

I've never grinched and I don't plan on it, but if an organizer was threatening to release my info for any reason at all, I would feel wary and uncomfortable with participating. I don't think that's a strange reaction.
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>>9993961
same anon, you have to trust the organizer quite a bit for something like this where you're handing over a lot of personal info. Threatening to release personal info and link your online + real life identities is a pretty big step from telling them to kick rocks next year.
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>>9993778
What >>9993771 is saying is that they themselves hardly have any online activity as a cosplayer, so there are probably more cosplayers who have even less because they get most things in bulk or locally as well (as do I, so I understand where they're coming from). They're giving you an example and hoping you'll empathize with their group, but you're taking it as, "Well, then you're fine! Stop complaining!" instead of rubbing two brain cells together and seeing their point (which they took the time to simplify at the end of their post).

>>9993774
>I'm starting to see the same pattern showing this year with cosplayers vs lolitas and trying to section off the "undesirables" as much as possible, which sucks as one of those people that's getting unfairly targeted.
Yeah, I think that's where a lot of people are coming from. I've never bought any jfash online so I wouldn't know how to react to someone asking me to get them brand either.

Santa anon, did the previous santa give you all the whitelist information, from the first year to now? I'm guessing it's a list of names, but not much else? There are a lot of different opinions going around and it's probably frustrating to read, but thanks for working on putting this together and I hope you find a good way to work it out. Maybe you can have a small group of people to help and, in the higher tiers... You could request the gift be sent a week or two before Christmas and get the tracking number as confirmation (and I guess also forum pictures).
>>
I get that this is a discussion, and we should definitely be having on and I'm glad it's happening sooner rather than later but some of y'all need to relax a little. This is meant to be a fun thing among randos with similar interests on the internet.
The bottom line is that there is money involved and most people are going to want there to be a level of accountability on both sides. Personally, I don't like the idea of requiring anything but sales feedback and if you're like me? Just don't fucking participate.
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Okay, it's starting to get a bit crazy to read the replies and work out who is saying what.. I have made another response form based solely on the discussion of feedback and social media. If you guys can please fill it out so I can see what the majority of people actually want and from what area of the board you are coming that will really help out! It also has a long answer option at the bottom you can fill out EXACTLY what you want from the event if you want to add your complaints/ suggestions about anything.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfn4V297lkMVVcHi2gFt6X8sJLeSg9OU9oz8of39Ej4PyWOMw/viewform?usp=sf_link

>>9993892
Yes I do!

>>9994002
I believe this list dates back to 2015.
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What kind of cosplayer doesn't have social media? Like, do you not have friends? Does everyone live in the same street as you? Do you call them every week for an update on how they're doing?

Not to be mean, but I have some national and international friends which I like to keep in touch with. I also wonder what you do when you make a costume. Do you just not take photos or..?
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>>9994125
Thank you so much for all your hard work, Santa! If we don't neatly fall in one bracket for "what reason do you visit /cgl/" should we just pick one and explain in the comments section?
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>>9994155
That would be fine too! Better if I didn't list itt actually as it gives me a broader idea of who actually uses the board.
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I honestly didn't expect it to devolve like this when I started the thread. I just want to send cute cards, I've never even done /ss/ on /cgl/ before
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>>9994157
Just submitted an entire essay - I apologize, Santa! I hope it can be of use!
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To be honest if you don't buy online or use social media I worry about your ability to send gifts. What if you get an itabagger who doesn't want handmade items? What if you get anyone who doesn't want handmade items? Would you be able to shop outside of your own hobby even a little bit? Are you going to end up shopping at Daiso? Then why would you want to be in the $100+ tier? Are you going to make someone a whole cosplay?
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>>9994170
It's valid to have concerns anon but who said they don't buy online? The only people who say that are normally people who have physical store that cater to them. Also >shopping outside of their hobby
It's not that complicated unless someone is illiterate or too dumb to ask for help in the later threads, it'll be fine.
>make someone a whole cosplay
God I'd love to be matched with them
>>
I am genuinely curious as to if previous secret santa hostesses are still active here, and if they are enjoying seeing all of this.
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>>9994143
Not a cosplayer, but I use WhatsApp, Line and Discord to keep in contact with my friends.It's puzzling to me how people equal no social media with no friends.
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>>9994184
Not that anon, but probably because most people these days do tend to have social media. Especially people with the hobbies on this board since people tend to separate personal accounts from their cosplay/lolita/jfash/itabag accounts and they all tend to be "showy" hobbies.

>>9994170
Not having online feedback doesn't necessarily mean they don't buy stuff online but I wouldn't want to be matched with someone who didn't some sort of provide feedback, to be honest. I just like having the extra security.
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>>9994193
What is feesback supposed to show though as security? That they know how to buy things online? Anyone can do that. That they buy things from specific places you deem only true gulls shop from?

It's just puzzling to me why people are so hung up on requiring social media and feedback when it's pretty hazy what it's even supposed to show.
>>
Something that’s surprising me is that in all the years we’ve done this, we’ve never had even close to the level of complaining about feedback and requirements as we are having now. I don’t recall anyone having issues with feedback last year, and still the cosplayers made it work..? Is there a huge influx of new cosplayers? Is everyone who is complaining actually joining $50+ and $100+ tiers where this feedback becomes relevant, because I somehow doubt that.

Anyways, I like the idea of just having it as a request on the form so that cosplayers (or whoever) without feedback can get matched with others that don’t care about feedback. It’ll be a preference just like shipping within your country.

>tfw I just want to get this started and everyone is happy and calms down, but I’m starting to get on edge reading all this
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>>9994381
Feedback wasn't required last year. Multiple people have said that last year we only had a whitelist, and feedback was just to get yourself whitelisted if you weren't already. This is the first year that feedback has been made mandatory

What exactly are you hoping to find on the feedback that would be missing from someone without it? No one yet has been able to explain why it's so important to have or how buying x number of things off eBay makes you trustworthy to not just run off with a gift.
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>>9994249
I mean you can make the same argument about the blacklist? What's the point if people can keep making throwaway accounts and fake names to bypass the blacklist? The point is that it provides enough of a hindrance to make it annoying if someone was joining for the purpose of grinching. Requiring feedback 1) ties you to a given account, increasing the likelihood that you're an actual person looking to participate and 2) in order to just join for grinching, said person would have to make a new feedback account to avoid it from being tied with their rl accounts or dig up an old account they might still be traced back to them. In the case of j-fash & itabag communities - it definitely proves reliability but I can see how it might be harder to prove that in the cosplay community. Those are my reasons anyway. I know it's not a foolproof plan but it makes it a nuisance if you're just signing up to grinch.

>>9994381
>having it as a request on the form so that cosplayers (or whoever) without feedback can get matched with others that don’t care about feedback. It’ll be a preference just like shipping within your country
I'm in agreement with this as well. Making it an option that you can either elect into or out of should work the best. It's no different than a shipping preference.
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>>9994412
The point is the blacklist has, or should have addresses, so you can't reuse the same address, which is much harder to fake than a name. What benefit is there to requiring ebay history from people? To see they shop online?
>It's a nuisance if your a Grinch
It's also one for normal people and I just don't see how showing you buy things online makes you more trustworthy. Sure it forces people to build up new accounts if they want to sign up, but it also forces people who don't buy on the platforms you pick to do the same. You're basically saying you can't trust anyone who doesn't use lacemarket/eBay, which seems really weird.

>As a preference
What is the preference even supposed to show?
You keep giving non-answets and hiding behind some "Grinch" boogeyman and can't seem to explain why this is needed now as opposed to previous years, or why it should be allowed when it adversely affect one specific group of people who wanted to be a part of this exchange. You just dance around it and never explain why it prevents grinches. People could just make a new account or use their boyfriend's account to scam items same as anything else. It's just arbitrary rules that seem to want to exclude other people arbitrarily.
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>>9994421
Is it though, anon? You can always ship to a friend's house or open a PO box. There are even people suggesting they open PO boxes for this event in another thread. Neither of these methods are fool proof.

>You're basically saying you can't trust anyone who doesn't use lacemarket/eBay, which seems really weird.
It's not that weird. It's an anonymous board. If I was doing a secret santa with friends I wouldn't require them to give me feedback because I know who they are. It's understandable that people on an anonymous board would like some more insurance than "trust me I've been on this board for years now".

Do you also get angry at people with shipping preferences for being "arbitrary" and selfish because they only feel comfortable shipping to people within their own country? It's just a personal preference. The compromise that >>9994381 suggested wouldn't hurt you in any way since you would still be able to participate. What are you still complaining about? Your victim complex is astounding.
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As someone who was a first timer last year, got whitelisted, but still got grinched, I didn't have any issue with the old system. The anon who took the place of my Grinch was lovely. I like the idea of checking addresses against a blacklist of people who have grinched, but I don't think there were any issues with not requiring feedback last year
How many people complaining about grinching actually got grinched?
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>>9994428
The shipping preference comes from people not being able to spend $30 on top of the gift price to ship internationally.

I just don't see how feedback means anything. It means you bought something online, nothing more, nothing less. I don't see how that's even relevant in showing you're trustworthy.
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>>9994433
I don't understand why you keep arguing. We clearly disagree at the end of the day and what the other anons have proposed re: just adding feedback as a totally non-mandatory optional preference doesn't hinder you from participating in any way. Let's stop shitting up the thread when the compromise lets everyone on the whitelist participate and gives the nervous people a way to ease their minds.
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>>9994455
Because I have yet to see someone come up with a concrete reason why we should make things more strict when it worked fine last year. The benefit seems to be minimal and just in people's heads that they think it somehow stops grinches. It adds minimal protection and divides a small group to match with into an even aller group just because some people say so.

I think it still has merit in debating but that only works if someone is able to coherently explain why this change should happen and what the benefits are of it. So far it's been a lot of "feels". "I feel safer knowing people buy things online", " I feel like people without social media shouldn't be allowed in", "I feel like we shouldn't trust people who won't link their feedback".

What benefit is there to this change? What was so bad about last year that it warrants an extra measure? How is it going to prevent that? If your ideas can't answer those questions, why should we adopt then and change for you?
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>>9994143
I use discord to talk to all my cosplay friends from far away, and directly text/call my local cosplay friends. I haven't made a cosplay social media because it's not something I plan on monetizing, so I never felt a need to. I run separate social medias and have a full time job and wouldn't have the time to keep another social media up to date just because of my hobby.

Not responding in a rude way, but to explain why a lot of cosplayers on the board might not have one. Lolita has comms which seem to communicate over facebook, but I don't have a local cosplay comm that I interact with.

>>9994193
What sites would give the appropriate feedback? Not trying to fight, I'm just thinking of sites I use. The only sites I use that I can think of is etsy and aliexpress.

>>9994381
Well, I don't think we've had a feedback requirement since this started. And I've never given out my social media. So when santa anon proposed these things, I guess they stood out. I've been on this board since 2008, so I don't think there are new cosplayers. The mandatory feedback just upset people who are a part of a group that doesn't have feedback by default. And that's where a lot of the confusion is coming from.

Now we're just discussing how to go about handling it.

>>9994412
>In the case of j-fash & itabag communities - it definitely proves reliability but I can see how it might be harder to prove that in the cosplay community.
Maybe we could have it that cosplayers show whatever their most used platform is for verification? But idk, that doesn't really show anything the way ebay/lacemarket feedback does.
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>>9994428
In that situation though, someone with multiple interests is going to be put into he higher tower and will only get itabag/Lolita matches and not cosplay matches if they wanted them. It makes things weird for the multi-hobby people. You either give feedback and are put in the premium group it don't and get put in the pleb group, but neither seem like they'd mix.
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>>9994462
But it didn’t really work that great last year? I know I personally got grinched (twice with my gift and card) and a bunch of other did as well. Honestly, having such a bad experience last year, having this extra security of (optional) feedback this year makes me feel much more confident participating again
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For anyone still bickering, again, please fill out this form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfn4V297lkMVVcHi2gFt6X8sJLeSg9OU9oz8of39Ej4PyWOMw/viewform?usp=sf_link

So far 100% of people who have filled it out have said they would have no issues providing feedback if it was required. So if you are one of the people who would not be able to provide it, please fill out the form and let me know!

The responses are also pretty dead on 50/50 for cosplayers and lolitas with a mix of a few others.

This being said, the result is mixed for people saying they are happy to send to those who are only on the whitelist, vs those who have also provided feedback and are on the whitelist.
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>>9994469
I’m a multi-hobby gull and I don’t think it would be a problem. You’re assuming that EVERY SINGLE cosplayer wouldn’t be able to provide feedback and thus be in the “pleb” group as you put it. (Untrue, look at the couple of cosplayers in this thread who said they can provide feedback.) And you can opt in/out of the feedback depending on preference so there can be multi-hobby people who don’t give a shit about feedback in the “pleb” group.

Secondly, I’ve been matched with people who have different hobbies in previous events and I was able to shop for them just fine. I don’t know anything about fairy kei at all but I didn’t complain about my match having different interests. I’ve matched up with people who had husbandos from fandoms I’ve never heard of and I still had a ton of fun shopping for them.
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>>9994479
but what does feedback really add security wise?
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>>9994482
Santa, will you release a data breakdown once you get enough responses? Thank you for your hard work!
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>>9994482
you left out the option of saying "I CAN give feedback, but I think it's unfair/useless"
I personally would be able to dig up something, but I strongly oppose the idea. You're very directed questions seem to leave out options like that.
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>>9994499
There's literally an additional comments field where you could have clarified. Why are you being so hostile toward someone who is putting together an event with their own free time?

Also are you kidding me? This one anon who's shitting up the thread about feedback didn't even fill out the form to say they object to providing feedback? I'm lowkey convinced that they're just trolling to cause drama.
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>>9994503
that's a lot of assumptions. Anon shouldn't be immune to criticism just because they volunteer.

I've been very polite and firm about the fact that I would agree to the feedback part if someone could convince me why it's needed and what it actually adds to link something when it's an unrelated account to /cgl/, which is where we're at with this. So far people just accuse me of "shitting up the thread" like you or dance around the question.

it wasn't an issue last year. sure, people got grinched, like every year, but we had a grinch check and people did white day to make up for it like we do every year. I'm failing to see why this extra security is needed when it seems arbitrary and to add very little other than deterrent for legitimate participants.
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>>9994505
Agreed, it shouldn’t be sloppy just because it’s a volunteer effort. Thousands of dollars worth of merch and fashion gets exchanged during this event.

Only seller feedback should be counted, buyer feedback proves nothing.
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>>9994511
you see, things like that are frustrating because you accuse me of shitting up the thread, and when I give a genuine reply asking what your points are and why we should support your side, you shitpost and take the piss.
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>>9994505
I appreciate your critique as I actually do believe it is necessary to be able to make successful changes.

I see it like this - if people are grinched, it is an issue and I deem that as unsuccessful. No, maybe not the event as a whole but it IS something which could potentially be fixed.

Personally when buying items from people online /cgl/ related or not, I am very iffy purchasing high value items from people who do not have feedback as I deem this as risky for myself. Generally people who have high levels of feedback are less likely to rip you off, and while yes, not everyone with zero feedback is out to rip people off - a lot of them do which is why people would be uncomfortable to participate in an event exchanging $100 items based on trust alone.

Regardless to all I have said above about my personal feelings. The section in the feedback is actually quite 50/50. Half the people would only send a high value gift to those with feedback, and half dont care if they are only on the Whitelist. So at the moment, it makes the most sense to make feedback optional and pair people with feedback with people with feedback and vice versa. Its likely as well, most of the people answering this won't be participating in a $100+ category anyway.

And since the matches this year will be X buys for Y, Y buys for Z it will be much easier to match people with specific choices. As well, those who provide feedback also may not mind if their match is only on the Whitelist, so it also opens the category up for those who will only participate if feedback is provided.
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>>9994513
Anon >>9994511 isn't even me (I'm >>9994503
). There are multiple anons responding to you. I'm not saying Santa anon shouldn't be free from criticism but surely there are less rude and more productive ways to phrase your questions. People have been pretty rude to Santa anon from the beginning.

Like this person (>>9993719) even accused Santa anon of saying a bunch of shit that they never even said? Instead of dogpiling on Santa anon actually use the forms and air your grievances. Continuing to beat a dead horse when other participants in the thread have different opinions than you IS shitting up the thread. Santa has provided avenues to directly make a case and seems like they're trying their best to handle the situation.

Last year's Santa got a lot of hate too. I just think it's kind of shitty to be so aggressive toward people - who at the end of the day - are doing this for the community in their free time without being paid. Criticisms are fine but being rude and dogpiling seems over the top. If you are really unhappy with how things are run, I'd recommend that you take charge next year. Otherwise, I don't see what chewing out a volunteer is going to do other than make them want to drop the project altogether.
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>>9994515
then the question comes in, how much is "a high level"?
some cosplayers on here who would participate in the high tiers, but only have a few AliExpress purchases. If you make it too high, then you unfairly knock cosplayers into a lower tier because they are one of a few who don't buy everything off ebay and only have single digit purchases, while it doesn absolutely nothing to impede the itabaggers or lolitas who seem to be glad to take the piss out of cosplayers and advocate for things "for the lulz" and "for the butthurt".

My problem with the feedback is how you phrased it. you only gave a "I really want this" and an "I am indifferent to this" option, so unless it's explained to them, almost all of the entries are going to result in you getting that result.
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>>9994519
Not Santa but what do you genuinely mean by your question? I'm confused. "High level?"

What Santa suggested is having the $100+ tier open to everyone on the whitelist. But giving the option of feedback preferred/don't care about feedback to the people eligible for the $100+ tier. It would function just the same as a shipping preference option.

1) Everyone on the whitelist can sign up for a $100+ tier present if they would like.

2) You can mark that you would only like to be matched with someone else who provide feedback or you can mark that you don't care about feedback. Much like how you can mark to only be matched with domestic gulls.

3) Either way you are still participating in a $100+ tier???
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>>9994524
the santa said "a high level" of feedback, which is incredibly vague and seems like it discounts people with single digit Ali Accounts or who only deal in smaller purchases online.
For the feedback, the anon last year had quite a bit of problems with domestic only gulls in america, and said it made matching very difficult. separating even more seems like it would only make it more difficult and I still haven't had seen a good explanation about why feedback makes people more comfortable or why it makes people more trustworthy. the Santa said something along the lines of being iffy buying things from people without a lot of activity, but it doesn't really inherently have any way of deterring people with feedback from grinching for free stuff either.

It just seems to me like a cosmetic rule that just makes people feel safer, even if it doesn't really do much except divide the higher gift tier more.
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>>9994530
>the anon last year had quite a bit of problems with domestic only gulls in america, and said it made matching very difficult. separating even more seems like it would only make it more difficult

This was answered by Santa Anon already here:
>>9994515
>And since the matches this year will be X buys for Y, Y buys for Z it will be much easier to match people with specific choices. As well, those who provide feedback also may not mind if their match is only on the Whitelist, so it also opens the category up for those who will only participate if feedback is provided.

It's round-robin this year (which is how it was supposed to be last year but last Santa didn't know). Also answered by an anon here: >>9993765


> I still haven't had seen a good explanation about why feedback makes people more comfortable
Unfortunately, I don't think this is something that you can understand unless you do a lot of shopping online. Which sounds arbitrary but a lot of j-fash communities have long-running feedback systems to weed out scammers. It even exists within the cosplay community when it comes to commissioners. It's kind of like how credit scores work IRL. You wouldn't argue that credit scores discriminate against people who only use cash, right? It's just a system that exists to help prove trustworthiness to financial institutions. In the end, there are ways to get around a blacklist too. Being able to show a transaction history imo, is better than nothing on an anon board.
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>>9994537
>it's a j-fash thing, you wouldn't understand
I guess i need to stop posting then, because it seems like people made up their minds and I'm just going around in circles with people who know what they want, and it doesn't include the same things as me.
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>>9994530
Also - I forgot to address the "high level" bit. But read Santa's post again instead of projecting. Santa is talking about THEIR PERSONAL shopping experience about how they themselves prefer someone with a high level of feedback. Nowhere in their post did they say they would specifically require an arbitrary "high level" of feedback for this event.

Not to mention this part that you seem to have glossed over:
>>9994515
>Regardless to all I have said above about my personal feelings. The section in the feedback is actually quite 50/50. Half the people would only send a high value gift to those with feedback, and half dont care if they are only on the Whitelist. So at the moment, it makes the most sense to make feedback optional and pair people with feedback with people with feedback and vice versa.
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>>9994530
As the previous Santa stated earlier in the thread, the matching was made very difficult as it was 1 to 1 gifting. The matching this year is not 1 to 1 so it will be made considerably easier.

Sorry, I was meaning this "high levels" thing more generally like eBay sellers with 10,000K feedback vs, those who have just started their accounts. You're more likely to purchase from someone who has made several sales than those who have made none at all right? I made this comment just generally, not as an actual relation to the event.

Perhaps I am naive regarding feedback, before I cosplayed or was into JFash I STILL sold things online which is why is it hard for me to understand how someone in either of these hobbies can not provide feedback. Have you or others as a cosplayer never sold old cosplays or old anime merch or w/e you no longer wanted? This is why I am finding it harder to understand why it is such an issue.

I get that you are saying people without feedback will be excluded, but surely you can also see it from the other side that people don't trust someone just because they are Whitelisted? I'm indifferent, as I probably won't participate in $100+ myself, but I am trying to go with what majority wants here.

>>9994538
I still want you to want to participate, Anon. And I have tried to accommodate this for you. If you dont have feedback and dont care if your match has feedback, then just sign up for that option? Again this is ONLY for the $100+ category. You and others like you can still do a $50 gift without feedback and be matched with the entire Whitelist, but even people into Cosplay have also responded they would prefer to have a match in a $100+ category that provided feedback.
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>>9994538
I'm honestly not trying to shut you out here. I genuinely don't understand how you think people are going to explain a feeling to you?

I'm not saying it's a j-fash thing. It's an online shopping thing. Western j-fash secondhand markets are conducted online mostly, so feedback is used to prove credibility. People who commission cosplays tend to pick people with good reviews/feedback for credibility. Even when I'm buying things on Ebay/Aliexpress/Amazon/Taobao/Etsy, I look for sellers with high ratings because it proves credibility. You yourself said you don't shop online very much. My assumption was that feedback culture might not be as obvious to someone who doesn't shop online as often.

Why is this an issue when it seems like it won't even be a requirement anymore and will be just a preference like domestic shipping?
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>>9994539
I did address that, Santa only gave 2 major choices in the questionnaire, either for feedback required, or apathetic, there was no against option unless you write it in, which I'm guessing won't factor in as much to those statistics. I guess I need to stop because it seems like a lot of lolitas know what they want and that's what they're going to get.

and yes, I know, you or someone else will reply with "but I'm both a lolita and a cosplayer" or something similar. but it's frustrating to go around and around and then be told "it's a lolita thing, you wouldn't understand, we need this 100%".


But then I want a rule at least up to vote then to say if you're a lolita/ouji/j-fash you shouldn't list brand main pieces if you're under 100 dollar tiers. I had that last year, an ouji/lolita who only wanted brand and I had a hell of a time getting anything that worked on a 30 dollar budget, adn especially for someone with no reputation or knowlege of the lolita/ouji community.

>>9994544
I have never bought or sold anything on Ebay, I buy large cosplay pieces on Ali, but everything else goes either through paypal merchants, amazon, or in-person trades. It's kind of frustrating how everyone just assumes about large numbers of orders, feedback, and social media like every single person has it.
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>>9994549
>Santa only gave 2 major choices in the questionnaire, either for feedback required, or apathetic

Sorry but where?
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>>9994549
It actually was in last years rules they weren't allowed to just say "I want brand" so that was rather shitty of your match to state that. Especially in a $30 category, I have no idea what they expected to receive?

I have made questions are little more specific (but obviously still open) to try and force better answers out of people this year. I do agree that was really shitty of them. And of course, while it is not guaranteed a perfect match, I have also included stating your preference for match, such as same hobby, similar interests or anyone.
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>>9994544

Speaking personally as a cosplayer and itabagger, no, I've never sold stuff in a way that left a traceable feedback. I don't live in the US, so the domestic market for my country is way smaller, and things are done in a much more informal way. When I've bought secondhand cosplay stuff, it's usually fabrics or wigs that I've seen being sold on FB by people I knew, and we simply met up at a con and exchanged the goods for cash. I never buy secondhand itabag goods on FB groups, mostly because it costs me less to do bulk orders directly from Japan through a proxy.

Regarding sales, well, I never had the kind of big expenses that come with lolita, so I never had to sell things online like others might resell their dresses. If I no longer like some of my stuff, I just put it into the designated cardboard box for items that will be sold at the yearly secondhand market, or sell it at cons in some cases.
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>>9994549
>>9994556
Yeah, it was definitely in the rules. Anon, where did your match say they wanted AATP stuff? I’m just curious because there were multiple fields for answers last year. Was it under interests, types of items, or sample items?
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>>9994559
in interests they said they liked vocaloid and mr yan. in stuff they wanted, or examples, all I remembered was they wanted "AATP socks" which I had no clue about brand stuff
I ended up sending them like $70 worth of tea and vocaloid stuff and hoped they didn't report me.
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>>9994562
Anon... so let me get this straight. They gave you a general interest they liked - Vocaloid, which would have been enough to work off of but you obsessed over AATP? Why didn’t you just get thrm $30 of Vocaloid stuff? The organizers last year told us not to put stuff in the form if we didn’t want said stuff so Vocaloid was a legitimate wishlist detail.

And AATP socks ARE under $30 - which is a reasonable request for that tier. If they listed AATP under “examples” that section was more to establish your general arsthetics/likes. I’m sorry your match didn’t answer emails - that’s really shitty. But it doesn’t sound like he was expecting you to get him an AATP main piece or anything like that from a bystander’s perspective?
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>>9994568
idk maybe not then
sorry I'd such a dunce then
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>>9994562
Interests: “ouji fashion, anime”
What you would like Santa to get you: “aatp socks or vocaloid”
Husbando: “mr yan so dreamy”
Extra details: “Taobao”

While a very incomplete form with a lack of detail, that is still not breaking the rules. Also...that was the $35-50 tier, so $70 was super generous!

You gave a lot more detail than that anon in your form, but again, there is no perfect answer to whom should be matched with whom. Were you satisfied with what you got in return?

I’m not picking on you specifically for complaining, I’m just trying to make a point... There are going to be people who don’t give a lot of detail, there are going to be not-optimal matches because people are into weird stuff, there will be bad gifts, and most of all there are going to be people who grinch. I appreciate new Santa for trying to prevent it. Matching is really, really hard, especially by yourself, and I’m just hopeful too many rules don’t make it harder.
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>>9994583
idk it was just something no one else was saying. It's not like I was trying to call out that anon specifically but it's something i thought was an important rule from last year that no one really mentioned bringing back.
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>>9994585
Oh!! Okay, that makes sense. Sorry, that point did not come through in your post. I hope that rule is also brought back, but there were no objections to that last year, thankfully, so I hope it is now a rule that is now generally accepted. I think right now the feedback discussion is just taking a front seat as that is the part of last year’s (along with the 1-on-1 style) that had the most controversy surrounding it. I hope you participate again this year and are matched with someone you can buy more easily for!
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>>9994505
I work a security based job and I have to ask for people's bank statements, not because I care about what they're spending, but if they refuse to provide documentation it normally means there's dodgy shit going on. This is fairly common practice in security bureaus.

I.e no-one cares what you're buying on Aliexpress but if you cannot verify yourself in any way, that COULD be suspect. Probably not, as argued by lots of people in this thread, but potentially. Maybe it's a 1% chance but for a lot of people 1% is too high.
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>>9994562
Honestly it sounds like you just can't work shit out. Socks are only about $30, they aren't asking for a full brand set, and they gave you the option of Vocaloid stuff which isn't that hard to find and the option of Taobao suggests they don't mind bootleg either...





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