Opened up yet another eBay listing where he sells his production art and puppets from Dead Meat. Even the original Billy & Mandy pilot storyboards from 1998 is on sale.https://maxwellatoms.tumblr.com/https://www.ebay.com/usr/gr1mb0t
this dude should be making season 16 of underfist but instead he fades into obscurity
>>145695142why doesn't he make a comic book
>>145695142Is Atoms the latest lolcow? Everytime he gets brought up he is always fucking up his life.
>>145695210>lolcowBeing poor and making some financial decisions that didn't pan out does not make you a menace.
>cover my mortgageWasn't this guy a showrunner for several years? How does he still have a mortgage? What did he do with the Billy and Mandy money?
>>145695204>Comics>Making money.
>>145695210People obsessed with lolcows inevitably become one themselves
Hateful fart cartoon
Why can't he let go of Billy and Mandy? Just make a new show already.
>>145695142Lol faggot
He has no income. You're telling me Billy and Mandy has zero royalties
>>145695443He's literally letting go of the last pieces of Billy and Mandy he personally owns.
>>145695473they do, from syndication.The biggest scam the jews in the entertainment media pulled on creatives was shit like Hulu.Here's how it works.>Make a show>Get paid for the show>Show gets syndicated>Get a fat check every so often from your show getting syndicated>Hulu now exists>Hulu didn't exist when the agreement was made>Network sells the rights to your show to Hulu, pulls it off the air>None of the money from your show being on Hulu goes to you
>>145695210>Everytime he gets brought up he is always fucking up his life.What part of the OP sounds like he's fucking up his own life?
>>145695552Remember most anons here are mentally ill or on drugs, they will never honestly speak about something, just want to vent their frustrations instead of fixing their own lives.
>>145695243Is it really glorification if nearly everyone is portrayed as unhinged, a loser, or an idiot?
>>145695529Yea the only ones to make bank on that Streaming Horror has been South Park
>>145695234Anyone in cartoons that isn't Matt Groening or Seth McFarlane makes peanuts whether they direct in Hollywood or animate in a Korean sweatshop
>>145695142How is so poor, did he make nothing from Billy and Mandy?
>>145695573>Remember most anons here are mentally ill or on drugsTrue, although I think in most cases (like this one) it has more to do with just being stupid.
>>145695142>>145695210>>145695243>>145695234>>145695613Why the fuck are there these females who are brigading from Kiwi Farms who non-stop off-topic gossip about creators like the boring fags they are? Why have they invaded our board the past year and constantly spam this?Why do you spam dozens of these threads of these shit weekly talking about creators being "lolcows" or spamming the same shit constantly, I bet you 100% tomorrow there's going to be another Kyle Carrozza gossip thread like the other 12 you Kiwifags made this month
>>145695142How is he struggling financially so hard? There are several showrunners who had a one or two cartoons then just disappeared from the industry. People like Joe Murray or Jim Jinkins haven't done any major work in the industry in years and I never hear a peep out of them about money troubles. Is Maxwell simply being vocal about this and the others DO need money, they're just not saying shit? Or is this because he fucked up with Dead Meat and now it's costing him a ton of money?
>>145695204Somebody post the tweet of an whiny indie animator answering this question with what amounts to "I'm too good for comics"
>>145695443>Just make a new show already.Nobody wants new shows.
>>145695674then he should revive Evil Con Carne
>>145695142Poor guy can't catch a break. He needs to figure out how to work for himself and start making money on his own. But the last time he tried did screw him.
>>145695674I didnt think kid cosmic did that well so i'm not surprised they didnt give him another show
>>145695702>then he should revive Evil Con CarneNo one wanted Evil Con Carne, either. That's why he had to put the characters from that show as background characters in Billy and Mandy
>>145695142Not poor enoughWhere is his Eris production art?I know he’s holding out
>>145695702He tried pitching a new Billy and Mandy thing a while ago, it was a cosmic horror musical called Destroy Us All. Really hoping it gets made at some point, the upcoming Jellystone crossover might reignite interest in the series.
>>145695142He should show us Mandy's butt
>>145695194Blame Cartoon Network for wanting to try and appeal to a larger intended demo
>>145695142>those toys in horrible shapecouldn’t keep them in storage?
>roommate majored in graphic design>graduated and actually managed to be one of the few in his class who landed a job>worked with a huge firm for a year, definitely made some posters and logos most burger anons have seen>wasn’t happy with the work, bored to tears and told me he usually finished his weekly tasks before monday afternoon>would fuck around at work, including drinking beer and getting stoned>ended up leaving the job because it wasn’t fulfilling for him despite the pay being decent>went to work for his all time favorite sports team as a graphic designer, dream job>is loving it, the team is having a great season, he’s personally making magazine covers and merch and posters all over the stadium >six months later is starting to like the work less, finds it boring and begins to come in hours late or leave hours early>they move to a mixed WFH schedule which he hates as he’s a social person>will WFH and get his work done in 45 minutes and just watch YouTube and join zoom meetings>big layoffs happen and everyone in graphic design aside from the boss he thinks is an idiot gets laid off>very pissed off and disillusioned >still has income as he makes YouTube thumbnails for some very large YouTube channels, basically making enough to scrape by >months pass and he hasn’t applied to new jobs because he hasn’t seen any that looked fun or appealing>money in the bank is starting to dry up, getting a bit desperate>begins applying for jobs, gets no responses the first month >Warner brothers reached out to him and he’s thrilled, until he realized it was a scam to get his credit card info and social>waiting to hear back from a shitty online poker websiteRecently his sports boss he hated reached out to him and offered to give him freelance work for the sport team, doing the exact same job for a fraction of the salaryI feel bad for him but he sort of put himself in this position. Is this similar in animation industries?
Wasn’t he just engaged?
>>145695142What has this guy doing all these decades after B&M’s cancellation?
>>145695945Dead Meat, his failed puppet show drained his entire income. He worked on it for like 7 years.
>>145695674>barely any new animated projects come out any more and those that do are either mid as fuck toddler slop or regurgitated established IP slopI hate this fucking decade and want it to end already
>>145695648It's a bit of both. Dead Meat was a huge moneysink, and he doesn't get anything from Billy and Mandy these days.
>>145695945Off the top of my head, mainly just odd jobs like Fish Hooks, Jellystone and the Patrick Star Show.
>>145695737Already sold.This is all he has left. Dude's genuinely hit rock bottom.
>>145696018I figured a lot of 90's and early 2000's showrunners aren't making tons of royalties anymore. I don't think the creator Angry Beavers has done anything significant for 20+ years, so I just wondered why Maxwell is in the peculiar position he's in. Not sure how he fucked up with Dead Meat so badly. You'd think a guy who had two shows that ran for years, one of which got multiple TV movies, might have some producer friends who could've helped him out with the business end of that indie project.
>>145696069>Not sure how he fucked up with Dead Meat so badly.He was using union VAs on a non-Union project and the Union caught wind and fucked him up hard.
>>145696069Not when you're the "Hateful Fart Cartoon" guy who cost everyone their jobs.
>>145695142>>145695875The starving artist stereotype is a stereotype for a reason. The entire field is unstable, especially now. Guys have to make a massive career shift to finance or tech if they want to keep their cushy LA life.
>>145695142>showrunner of literally one of the best cartoons of all time is now dead brokeCartoons really will break your heart. But hey, at least warner execs dont have any "hateful fart cartoons" to worry about and instead have tons of toddler slop inoffensive/unfunny filler content like cuck of the creek or we bore bears to flop after one anotherCartoon network deserves to stay dead after this
>>145695643Underrated post.
>>145696098>learn to codeFuck off
>>145695637Always possible.
How much longer until he starts drawing porn comics of adult mandy getting piped?
>>145695665In a way, I understand wanting a steady, consistent paycheck guaranteed for at least or year or two, regardless of how well the show performs. It's the same for gamedevs, musicians, writers, etc. A corporate, contracted job is safer and even if you fuck around or waste time or push your work onto everyone below you, you still get paid.Going indie and doing that work with a small team means fewer, if any, protections or insurance against your own incompetence. Convince a suit to bankroll your show and it can fucking suck and be enjoyed by no one, but you'll still get paid for it. Do the same thing, but as an indie, and fail to find an audience, and there's no pay. No severance package. Nothing. You live or die by your own sword. Aside from that being very scary, a lot of what guys like Atoms do just doesn't work in the indie format. If he was producing cartoons to post on youtube and beg for patreon money, he'd do terribly. No one is dying for an independently produced cartoon on the level of Billy and Mandy. Older fans might show up for the first episode or two, because of nostalgia, but that format and its writing are just fucking boring and would not turn into anything that pays well enough. It all kind of amounts to saying "these fags aren't good enough to go indie" which sounds mean, but it's the truth.
>>145696157Fuck forgot my image>Captcha: NGRO
>>145696157I've watched him draw live on his twitch streamHis fucking very soul is gone.I don't think he could anymore.
>>145696098>TechThat's about to get raped by Aye Eye too
>>145695981Everybody complains about the lack of originality, but then you look at what's actually getting the most views and revenue...And it's not like social trends are going to drive viewership back to linear media any time soon, or every, really.
Just a reminder this was the man that killed Maxwell Atoms job in the first place. Along with a bunch of other CN creatives during the CN City era.
>>145695674It's hard to blame people when new IP ends up being lame and thus resulting in people holding on to what they remember fondly because it did work.
>>145696241What the fuck was his problem?
Why doesn’t he start making his own indie shorts?
>>145696215>>145696244Whats stopping then from creating new IPs that are actually good and supporting them? There have been some good new cartoons within the past few years but they all got cancelled.
>>145696283Hated cartoons much like Zaslav
>>14569624120+ years ago. He needs to move on.
>>145695665Wasn't that Kyle Carrozza? I continue to enjoy his downfall
>>145695643Blame Birchy and the other weird loli anime shitposters and Kiwi hypocrites.Maybe we'll get more strange Kyle selfies too.
>>145696318Yes, that was Kyle "Eyes on the Prize While I Unzip my Fly" Carrozza.
>>145695142Has he tried Kickstarter? Or Subscribestar or Givesendgo?
>>145696286>and supporting them There's the rub. The business is not such that one can continue nursing something along in the hopes that it will find an audience. And with so much content, and the channels of promotion so fragmented and inconsistent, it's hard to get whatever new IP there is out in people's heads as something they want to look into. So when there is new IP, they're limited in what they'll invest, which of course cuts into production value and the scope of the project, which cuts further into the potential audience. It's easy to say "they should take more risks", but those risks aren't paying off frequently enough to pay for all the duds. Extant IPs are little help because they're caught in the same production cost death spiral that affects, say, AAA video games, where they're spending ever more to make big, but they can no longer reliably make big returns.
>>145696354>>145696318>>145695665This interaction was so hilarious>Hey kyle, here's an idea on how to get your ideas out there>FUCK YOU, I AM ABOVE MAKING COMICS!
>>145696399>"Excuse me, peasant! Do you think my name is Comics Kyle? NO! I AM TV'S KYLE!">but all along, he was actually CP's Kyle
>>145695142Get a fucking job.>But I'm an animator! It's my passion!Too bad. I didn't like having to go back to a 9 to 5 after the lab I was working at got shut down, but guess what? Being a fucking adult sometimes sucks and means doing work you don't like to pay the bills.
>>145696390Well all the established IPs arent even selling well either so they either have to take more risks or risk bankruptcy themselves
>>145696399what a snarky ass reply to a friendly comment.
>>145696435Corpo bootlicker
>>145695142bring back bunnicula
>>145695979I always wondered why he wanted it to be puppets anyway. Those sketches looked charming enough on their own.
>>145696286Executives don't want a "cartoon". They want a profitable animated production which can create an established franchise, spin-offs, videogames, action figures, dolls, Hollywood deals, etc, etc, etc. And to hit all these boxes, this animated production needs to hit a series of checkboxes, so its safe and inclusive and bold and exciting and new and fresh. /copol/ will have you think its a wole plot or whatever, but it's simple greed, a near constant obsession for return of investments and budget cuts and a need to make it big using little.This clashes against what writers want, what animators want, what people want, etc, etc, so you get a really cool ass concept that comes out with the blandest fucking taste imaginable or is just bland enough to be edible and survives purely because it barely makes enough profits to justify costs.Old IPs are a guarented return of investments. Nostalgia is a powerful drug, people love to go back and re-tread familiar grounds. So even if the production is inferior to its OG counterpart, enough money is made. If it is mildly sucessful, you can even spawn more reasons, spin-offs, toys, etc until the cow is dry and dead.As a result, you'll only see new IPs either from indies, or from old farts (usually after a SHITLOAD of pressure)
>>145695142I'm guessing he can't live off B&M royalty checks, that is if they send him any at all.
>>145696435I feel like many of you fags won't be happy until every animator is chained, working for no wage.Either that or all animation is replaced with AI jeetslop
>>145696468>As a result, you'll only see new IPs either from indies, or from old farts (usually after a SHITLOAD of pressure)And its shit like this is wht im increasingly becoming more socialist
>>145696468Problem is that many of these reboots are so bad that they end up flopping anyway
>>145696456I think he wanted the guts to be realistic or whatever. Too bad cause the drawings have good waifubait. I'm curious as to why he couldn't go to adult swim at the time.
>>145696384Where were you a decade ago when he tried and got crowdfunding for a project, only for the project to hit a hard stuff because of union politics
>>145696399>my eyes are on the prizeWhy does he make it sound like making his pitches into animated projects is more profitable? Animation is more time consuming than comics, and getting picked up by TV networks is not going to automatically make you rich. Besides, comics like Scott Pilgrim were eventually able to turn a profit in adaptations once the property proven itself to be worthwhile.
>>145696620Not only that but you can make decent money self publishing a physical comic if you market it right.
>>145695665This response from someone was even funnier when people were trying to suggest him jobs
>>145695702Hateful fart cartoon
>>145696399>got his prize>still lost everything lel
>>145696399>look him up>turns out he was arrested for CPOkay, I need to understand something. Why does every artist get in trouble for sexual shit? Why do I never hear about an artist getting cancelled or going to jail for theft or murder? Seriously, what is going on? Is it something to do with microplastics fucking up the endocrine system?
>>145696399The "anti-comic" mindset is going to fuck over a lot of these indie animators, imo. Instead of slowly building up an audience with webcomics (and an eventual physical graphic novel), they spend 4+ years and up to (or exceeding) 100k on a 20 minute "pilot". Even the big ones that get over a million views usually end up a one and done because it isn't sustainable money-wise.Pic rel is an example of doing the comic thing right. There are also some animations now but there a lot shorter (3 or so mins), so they can realistically keep making them.
>>145696737>Why do I never hear about an artist getting cancelled or going to jail for theft or murder?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Iana_Kasian
>>145696399What an asshole.
>>145696743Nimona is another example that comes to mind. It used to just be a web comic posted on Tumblr before getting a physical release, and now a film adaptation with discussion of potential sequels.
>>145695335When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back
>>145695740Why is Many an adult but Billys still a kid?
>>145696796Is that fucking ron pearlman?
>>145696476They hadn't aired it for almost a decade until this year. It wasn't even on Boomerang.
>>145696390the issue is new IPs have much more competition than ever before. Old IPs used to go away. They couldn't rerun everything forever on TV. Now a Friends fan can watch Friends every day all the fucking time. So a new Friends-like sitcom can't come in and get hot because Friends still has its audience that won't give it up.
>>145696481If they are making nothing, they get nothing. It sucks that guys who had successful careers can't find consistent work, but what the fuck are we supposed to say? >Give this guy a salary forever because he made an okay cartoon that ran 15 years ago!They don't want to make comics. They don't want to work on new pitches. They aren't seeking work on anyone else's shows. So... Fuck em.
>>145696796Me and my latina wife.
>>145696794Nimona wasn't built up. It was purchased by a desperate executive at Netflix during their period of greenlighting an ungodly amount of shows and movies because Netflix believed infinite growth was possible
>>145696893>They don't want to work on new pitches. They aren't seeking work on anyone else's shows. So... Fuck em.Atoms has done work on other shows. It wouldn't shock me if he has tried pitching
>>145696743>Pic rel is an example of doing the comic thing right.It still took them 10 years to even make that a book, anon.
>>145696962That isn't their first bookThey've sold ebooks on amazon back in 2017
>>145696481You got to do what you got to do to pay the bills. He had to have mismanaged his money or lived beyond his means to be this broke after being a showrunner of a show that ran for six years
>>145696743>slowly building up an audience with webcomics (and an eventual physical graphic novel)It's not as inevitable or obvious a process as you seem to think, in terms of just building an audience, let alone one that converts to a revenue stream that pays for all the costs of development and publishing while they were in build phase.
>>145696743>>145696794Comics are easy to do when you're under 30 and can crash with friends or live with parents. Less so when you have to come up with mortgage money.
>>145697006I feel anons overestimate how much showrunners make.
>>145697018But surely this guy can get some kind of work while doing the comic. he can start a podcast or hell join an established one.
>>145697018>mortgageKEK
>>145696118He could always sign autographs
>>145697018I have a full time job and can still make comics.How busy are you guys?
>>145695893When the money goes, so too do the women
>>145696481Most anons unironically hate artists and animators. It's incredibly strange.
>>145697054How much does it cost to make a comic?
he could stream on twitch and give people advice on streams and make decent money on the subs alone
>>145697054are you making money off those comics or are you boasting about it as a hobby
>>145697115>money off of comics
>>145696882Exactly. Everything is saturated, and not just within television/film. If all I wanted to do was scroll TikTok or Youtube, I could do so all my waking hours and get a dopamine hit every few seconds. And so they're in competition with their past works as well as an ever-widening pool of alternate media and platforms.
>>145697088It dependsFor me, I post digitally, so nothing. There are affordable comic printers out there like comixwellspring, minimum quantity is only 25 copies which can run for about 80(?)
Hopefully, someone in the industry can get him some work. I really do think he should try for a comic. He just needs to do his research on what is out there.>>145697025true
>>145697042its nice to own a home eventually.
>Storyboards going for only $100What the fuck.
>>145695643I’m not interested in Kiwifarms crap, but it is sad to hear Maxwell isn’t doing well, I grew up watching a lot of Billy and Mandy, I thought he would’ve had a decent income from making such a well liked cartoon.
>>145697087I unironically hate the idea of artists making money. It genuinely infuriates me. I failed at my ambitions of working as a storyboard artist/animator and seeing these california nepobabies make a living from it pisses me off to no end. I hope every animator working in the industry loses their job, goes homeless, and every position in the animation and comic industry replaced by artificial intellengce.If I have to break my back for 60 hours a week welding, everyone does.Fuck this shit
>>145697192He'd probably have a decent passive income from residuals if Cartoon Network ran old cartoon reruns instead of pretending everything predating the early 10's didn't exist.
>>145697025/co/ discussing money is like that Simpsons episode where the kids thing Skinner is a millionaire because he makes 25,000 a year and is 40.
>>145696286Because the measuring stick for new IPs is Stranger Things. They want Stranger Things levels of success where it can be endlessly licensed wand will pull people back to subscribe. And all the money will go to that show to make sure it continues to be as big as possible. Anything less than that is considered a failure. The era of small budget shows is dead.
>>145697172>Implying anyone will own anything in current year
>>145697213bro atoms came from colorado. He's no nepobaby.Nepo hires exist but Cali is filthy with people across country who moveover there to try and make it in the entertainment industry.
Pain. Seeing all of these creators past their prime and broke. If they waited 10 more years we would've had a YouTube animation renesiance . My point being, if you want to make a cartoon, never pitch it to a network and just post it online and get paid via Patreon/GoFundMe. Fuck CN and Nickelodeon. Max definitely deserves better, man.
>>145696794>>145696743You're stuck in the past my man. Indie webcomics have largely been swallowed up by massive sites like Webtoons. Nimona could build momentum when Tumblr was a successful social media site, but after its pseudo-porn ban the audience just isn't there anymore. It's all Webtoons. And Webtoons is so flooded with content that breaking through the noise is a Herculean task in of itself.
>>145697265Did the creator of pic rel ever get the rights back?
>>145695648It's in the post fucking read it faggotHe hasn't been able to get work in the year because the entertainment industry effectively shut down entirely twice in the last 5 years. And he got slammed with random life bullshit.
>>145697213I disagreed with you until he was whining about being "scraped" by AI. No artist in the world can prove their work directly was used to train an AI model. Much less a hateful fart cartoon merchant who was more than happy to use slave labor from Korea to animate said cartoon.
>>145697186No, the starting bid is $100. Although I wonder why he doesn't just sign them to increase the value.
>>145697272AFAIK, no. I'm pretty sure Nick keeps the rights to the show forever.
>>145697272Nope. She's barely allowed to make parodies of the series. Last I heard she was working on BoJack.
>>145697293This is retarded. No one can "prove" that their work was scrapped because all the AI companies effectively set loose a 100 dogs in a meat shop, and when criticized for releasing their dogs and stealing all the meat, asked, "Well, can you prove which dog ate which piece of meat and how much they ate? Otherwise, how do you know it was my dog specifically?"
>>145696796>>145695335proof?
>>145697065That’s a woman?
>>145697293>No artist in the world can prove their work directly was used to train an AI model.what the fuck? The visuals are literally evidence itself. Those programmers literally admit to scraping art themselves.
>>145697265he can't even fund his own life, how could he fund a pilot
>>145697192He brought it upon himself by deciding to go Full Commie
>>145697025This is true. The real money in cartoons is in voice acting and/or producing. Seth for example voices like half the Family Guy cast so he gets a big paycheck. Groening doesn't VA and barely writes, but he's an exec producer on The Simpsons and gets a percentage of the profits from various media.
>>145696495>That pic ok faggot
>local artist is poor>againGet a real job you bum.
>>145695210Atoms isn't a lolcow. He's just a poor guy that isn't treated right by the industry.
>>145696441>>145696481It's not about sucking up to corporations or about fucking AI you retards, it's about working any fucking job when you need any fucking job.I've had to work a lot of shitty jobs I didn't like, but I've never had to ebay off the last of my personal mementos to pay the bills just because I refused to take work I wasn't passionate about.
>>145696882>the issue is new IPs have much more competition than ever before. Old IPs used to go away.>Old IPs used to go away.LOL, fuck off, zoomer.I was fucking watching I Love Lucy and the Honeymooners in the mornings during summer vacation when i kid. Those shows were over 30 years old by that point.When i was a kid in the 80s, there were 20-30 channels on cable. There were about 12 stations over the air. All of them ran reruns of all sorts. Nickelodean was showing the animated Star Trek series and had 50s shows like Dennis the Menance and Lassie. USA Network ran Lost in Space and Buck Rogers. On broadcast, Bonanza and Star Trek were running reguarly. SAme with Little House on the Prairie and Sandrofd and Son. There were hundreds of shows they had to rerun on TV and a lot of money to be had from it: syndication $$$ was super fucking important back in the day and where the majority of money was made for hollywood back in the day.Nothing that was popular ever died, and even shit that wasn't, like Star Trek, still made boatloads of cash after it got canceled and became popular thanks to syndication.This is why so many cartoons aimed to make at least 50 episodes, becasue even if they didn't become popular, they could just sell it for syndication and make bank for decades. The Flintstones, Mickey Mouse, Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry, Laff Olympics, GI Joe, Transformers, The Jetsons, Secret Squirrel, Top Cat, Heathcliff, TMNT, and hundreds of other cartoons were rerun for to 4 generations of children, so that EVERYONE knew of what came before them.... until the internet fucked up millenials and zoomers, who never have to leave their circlejerks and narrow viewpoints are commonly shared by the entire world, until some racist alt right nazi makes a comment in few things they're interested in or they find out something else exists outside of their asshole.
>>145695210>lolcowman shut up you fucking retard
>>145697265>If they waited 10 more years we would've had a YouTube animation renesiance . My point being, if you want to make a cartoon, never pitch it to a network and just post it online and get paid via Patreon/GoFundMe. Cable TV is dying anyways. They would take a huge risk in doing original shows which would only kill the channels even faster. That’s why they have to rely on remakes or shows by veteran creatives.
>>145695142I don’t understand why he can’t be a art/animation teacher at a college and use the funds to make a silent short film again
>>145695142What the fuck? How is he not getting a job? Didn't he make a bunch of good cartoons?
>>145695674jesus fuck
>>145696468It's not the fault of execs, it's the fault of consumers.Whether games/movies/shows/toys, no one wants the 7/10 product.Everything these days is classified as either masterpiece or shit.No one wants to watch a decent alright cartoon, they want a generational masterpiece they can watch forever and talk about forever. Look at this board for example, every time a new cartoon comes out on netflix or in theaters, people say it's either pretty good or it's shit and that's where the discourse lies
>>145695142>He serves as a storyboard supervisor on The Patrick Star Show. I'd imagine that pays something, but it looks like he only has a few credits from a year ago.
Billy and Mandy started out as a cartoon for a contest CN held at a time when they peaked, he got insanely lucky when it won Big Pick and was greenlit.If it didn’t win he would have ended up making Billy and Mandy or Evil Con Carne a graphic novel or another pilot 1-2 decades later or started up a kickstarter much like what the Longhair and Doubledome creator did when his show didn’t win Big Pick at CN.Also possible Chowder, SMFA, Tig n Seeks, Jellystone, LTC, and Uncle Grandpa would have never happened either
>>145696399Could a comic or graphic novel have saved him?
>>145695648>People like Joe Murray or Jim Jinkins haven't done any major work in the industry in years and I never hear a peep out of them about money troubles.They seemed to have lucked out. Both had back to back shows that lasted two or three seasons, then likely had a bump in the late-2000s with DVD releases and The 90s Are All Right block revival. Looks like Jinkins produced a number of other shows while Murray's most recent show was from 2018 to 2022.
>>145698951*The 90s Are All That
>>145695648>>145698951Jimkins in particular worked on preschool shows for 20 cumulative years or more, Doug was his only older kids show. He wasn’t just coasting off royalties
>>145698764He’s too high-profile?
>>145695719First season was great. Show became shit after it branched out to cosmic level. That not-darkseid/thanos guy was pretty fun though. Only addition I remeber liking from later half.
>>145698951Jinkins and Murray both continued working in the industry and both ultimately pivoted towards preschool content for PBS. Same with Craig Bartlett. Mo Williems moved from animation to a crazy successful career in children's picture books.That being said, I don't know why Atoms has clearly struggled with maintaining long term gigs even if he doesn't get the opportunity to showrun again. He seems like a nice enough dude online, but maybe he's a pain in the ass to work with? Or did he create some major, permanent rifts after the Dead Meat debacle with the union?
>>145695210No. People feel sadness when bad things happen to him.Dude made a huge cartoon for CN and they treated him like trash. Even insulted him to his face.
>>145699106Atoms kinda fell into the job. I don’t think he has good business sense
>>145696286Because most of the time the new IPs aren’t good. I’ve seen Netflix greenlit so much new stuff that was at best mediocre and at worst awful that it is no wonder there are no audiences for them. I remember one cartoon about ghosts that had this ugly CGI indie style that was so boring I don’t know who the show was for. Even Kid Cosmic wasn’t that good. Even Genndy’s Unicorn Show after Primal was bland storywise.Basically, Netflix has experimented with original stuff and gave lots of creative freedom to creators and the end result was nothing good.Although to be fair, quality wouldn’t mean anything since most kids just watch Tiktoks and YouTube shorts over cartoon shows and movies.You are better off trying to make the next Skiddi Toilet and selling merchandise than making a cartoon with effort.
>>145699205I agree that Atoms doesn't have good business sense. He's clearly an excellent idea guy but doesn't know how to properly execute them. I still don't understand why he didn't keep taking jobs after Billy and Mandy though. He worked on Fish Hooks, did nothing, and now works on Jellystone. I feel like taking on more projects would have lead to more visibility and a higher likelihood of getting another show off of the ground.
>>145695142So what, it's actually difficult and costs a lot for corporations to fund and make cartoons? Does anyone think individual creators can make their own cartoons?
>>145697220CN recently started a daily two hour block of Dexter's Laboratory, Courage, Johnny Bravo, and Ed, Edd, & Eddy. They've also shown What a Cartoon. and Cartoon Planet.
>>145698682But that’s the thing, anon. Kids don’t want to watch any old media. They don’t want to watch anything that is longer than five minutes. They want to watch twerking among us while a runner mobile game plays at the bottom.
>>145698738Not to mention cable tv channels that are just one show marathoned.
>>145696095I don't get how that shit worksIsn't Grey DeLisle a union va? And she voices on fucking Ollie and Scoops of all things
>>145695142It's sad that creators of some of the most well known and beloved cartoons are barely scraping by, unable to really live. Regardless of how you feel about those cartoons it's horrifying to think you can make it big like that in the business and still have to be paying a mortgage.
>>145695613sorry you're finding out this way anon, but making cartoons pays nowhere near well enough to still live off something you made two decades ago
>>145695893what the fuck is that thing
>>145695142Sad!
>>145699497I think it's Fairuza Balk, the girl from Waterboy and American History X.
>>145698905No, indie comics are a huge time investment with little to no chance of a payoff or return in investment. I mean you need to take at least a year to do one and they need to pay $45k at least to have you earning less than min wage. There are several creators who have posted page counts and advances from publishers and shown it's not enough to live on even if your publisher bankrolls a book for you. Ends up being a few bucks an hour and you'd be better off working in mcdonalds.
>>145697042>KEK>Not putting your money into owning your own place instead of paying for someone else's place.Anon rents are just going to keep rising for the rest of your life. If you're going to be paying rent you might as well be paying a mortgage. If your landlord jacks up your rent you're fucked and have to move. If you can't pay your mortgage you just sell your house and break even and end up in the same situation. Best case scenario you end up with a house. Worst case scenario you end up a renter. What's to risk?
>>145695674I can't wait for the Wander Over Yonder revival. It's 8 years old now. When it gets to 10-15 we might see a nostalgia wave that gets a reboot of sorts once the kids who grew up on it get old enough to make demands or get into disney.
>>145695598Matt and Trey were smart to lock down their streaming rights before Comedy Central even knew what the internet was. And what was the result? They're literally the richest animators in the world. They make more than Groening or McFarlane by almost triple. Just because they got rights to their own fucking show. Geniuses.
>>145699377But the guy was saying that old IPs die, so new shows didn't used to have competition back in the day, which is ignorant as fuck of how many reruns of old shows almost every single TV and cable station ran for 18 hours a day until the earlys 90s, which was when cable tv exploded and reruns of old shows started running 24/7 on 60+ different channels.By 2010, that petered out. So you had 4 whole generations sharing their media for 50-60 years, understanding each other's history without ever opening a history book. Our biases, our pop culture, our politics, and we knew every single trope just by being a couch potato. I mean shit, the claim Simpsons Did It happened in the late 90s after only 10 seasons.Today, you're right that it's nothing but a circlejerk, like nationalistic fanatics in the 1800s, but instead of news not traveling fast, where even reporters dont what's going on in California, it's because zoomers can remain willfully ignorant because theres 23049234098 different streamers, shitty cgi, and webcomics that cater to their very specific interests. It's no wonder 1 in 20 kids today are said to have autism and psychologists no longer wanting to diagnosis people with autism because they've met their quota.They'll never be bored enough to give I Love Lucy a chance or even watch docu-dramas like Chernobyl because Pew Die Pie doesn't mention it on his myspace livejournal.... but i forgot my point (other than to mock zoomers)... which is that new IPs were still being created in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, despite most shit already being done by then. People still watched news shows, despite literally hundreds of tv shows from 50 years of tv/movie media being shown on TV every single day. And many NEW successful shows kept on being made, that didn't rely on reusing old IPs all the way into the 2010s.
>>145699842man when i was a kid it seemed unthinkable that classic looney tunes/tom & jerry/hanna-barbera would ever go off the air, then it turned out my generation was the last to have that growing up
>>145697234Why the fuck does everything have to be some major success immediately? What ever happened to a bunch of smaller successes to fill out every niche instead?>>145698667Bootlicker bitch>>145699316>Although to be fair, quality wouldn’t mean anything since most kids just watch Tiktoks and YouTube shorts over cartoon shows and movies.Gen alpha deserves to die in droves to punish them for their overall shit taste in media consumption
>>145696743that's stupid. there's a reason most webcomics lie dead, unfinished. with a detailed webcomic that has a set story, you're asking an artist to spend 6 years drawing out something they wrote 6 years ago. do you like anything you did six years ago? the way forward today is to do some animatic-type shit with voice actors as a backdoor pilot OR a VN if you want to flex your drawing writing skills. maybe a webcomic but only if it's some low-effort shit with 3d backgrounds. a graphic novel is a good idea but only if it's 300 pages, max. artists don't tend to be so good at restraining themselves though.
>>145699106Murray also moved out of Hollywood to Europe recently and has been self funding his own independent animated film about a fisherman and a magic talking fish. Hope to see it soon, right now it's stuck at festivals and such.
>>145699448it is fucked, cartoon residuals must be garbage>>145695210>person who gets skin cancer is a lolcowempathy. learn it
>>145700065most cartoonists are lucky to get *any* residuals, craig mccracken didn't see a red cent from ppg merch
>>145699888If you get laid off from your current job (you do have a job, don’t you?) would your first instinct be to look for a new job or to start looking around the house for personal belonging to auction off?
>>145695210Holy shit shut up, not everyone down on their luck is some sort of Lolcow fucking zoomer. Why are the newer generations so obsessed with trying to make a Lolcow out of every poor fuck on the internet
When there is nothing, the only thing on will be successful
>>145700296do you think getting a job is easy or immediate? maxwell is old, that means he wants an actual wage for his labour, disney just wants dewy eyed fresh calarts grads to underpay and fuck into the ground
He could probably make a good living just going around the comic convention circuit with a booth that says "I Created Billy & Mandy". He'd likely rake in thousands per appearance. Do three per month, and he's set.
>>145696737What makes it funnier is how colleagues of Kyle mentioned how anti-porn he'd act, and his one whiteknight Tony Goldmark claimed he was traumatized for life by seeing Zim x Dib yaoi. Kyle tried to brand himself as some fat weird nerd but totally wholesome and totally monogamous to his wife, and it winds up coming out he's a diddler and also liked soliciting underage girls on Deviantart.
>>145699106Atoms refused to adapt to the change. Networks wanted reboots and remakes and Atoms didn't want to do that so he was out of the job trying to get Dead Meat off the ground just to get FUCKED OVER by the dogshit that is the Voice Actors Guild for not being transparent with what they allowOut of all the OGs who still try to get work Atoms is one of those who has it rough
>>145700519This. He isn't leveraging his fame well. Artists need agents to help them with this shit.
>>145700539Dead Meat was in development in 2013. Long before the trend of remakes and reboots rising
>>145695142Dude sacrificed his job and life just because he didn’t want to work on the Courage and Scooby crossover in respect for Dilworth.Was it worth it?
>>145700461>do you think getting a job is easy or immediate?Of course not - because I have a fucking job. It’s a lot of frustration and a lot of applications and interviews and shit not panning out. But if you’ve been out of work for a year it might be time to start being more flexible about the kind of work you’re looking for.I’m not saying he needs to immediately go out and take a job flipping burgers, but maybe he should be willing to expand his options beyond “being a showrunner for an original animated series” instead of selling off all his shit.
>>145700630No. Idealism is folly.
>>145700651he's been scraping by on whatever animation gigs he can land since billy & mandy thoughthe job he mentions losing on the op was on the patrick star show iirc
>>145700721Then maybe it’s time to look at jobs outside of animation. Start expanding the search to more general graphic design.
>>145695142Based
>>145697358RichReviewTechUSA, some obese youtuber that began as a tech reviewer, turned into "commentary guy", who was always making fun of DarkSidePhil, the notorious immortal lolcow, went on to become a lolcow himself.
Why doesn't he just draw porn or lewd art? I would start doing that before selling priceless work with sentimental value. Helps that I already do.
>>145700572honestly this is pretty common from what I noticed, artists tend to be introverted little creatures.if i were him i would teach schoolism courses, he's gotta know something after years in industry
>>145701190he's got a fiance now, so he has to get rid of his kiddy drawings and toys to make her happy.
>>145701206You're telling me this woman wouldn't be a cartoon sperg herself? >>145695893
>>145699497this is why you're an incel
>>145701222Maybe she only likes Resident Evil. Just because she shares your hobbies doesn't mean she'll accept your personal tastes. I've had nerd GFs who are fine with my shit for months/years and then start disliking it. Nevermind GFs who only pretended to like the same shit i did, just to get close to me.People also want you to whittle down your collection if it takes up room they want to use. Might be they say they want you to focus on only on your favorite shit, but want you to get rid of all of it.Who really knows, but I'd be suspicious of anything where they're holding onto shit for half their life and then suddenly need to get rid of it, despite being in worse situations before.I've seen this happen before, like with my brother... who then tried and get everything back and just became a hoarder to compensate for his loss.
>>145695232>menaceThat's a horrorcow, dumbass. A lolcow is just somebody you laugh at.
>>145696837The story involves time travel. That's all we know.
>>145700065>expecting empathy on 4chanLol
>>145699888>>145700296>>145700721>>145700738I think it's Odd he never opted for a comfy teacher role like the other anons mentioned. Dude's more than qualified.
>>145701712This one guy I met at a comic convention did storyboards for Courage and Beavis and Butthead Do America. On his booth sign, he also had in big writing that he worked on The Simpsons and Spider-Man. Turns out he did one 3-page fill-in story in a single issue of The Simpsons comic book, and did storyboards for a Spider-Man Kraft mac & cheese commercial in the 90s.He would sell & autograph Xeroxed photocopy packets of his storyboards. Kind of sleazy desu, definitely a bit of a stretch in terms of his "credits", but he told me he basically just goes to a few conventions every month hawking his stuff, and that's how he makes his living.
so why exactly did billy and mandy become shittier towards the end? was it Atoms decision to make it more randumb, loud and gross?
>>145701930he was busy with TV movies.
>>145698488get off the internet
>>145701930The worst thing the later episodes did in my opinon was making Gladys and Harold as dumb and slapstick as Billy.
>>145701442>pretended to like the same shit i did, just to get close to meNice brag, faggot. And you have a collection? You don't just live in a blank prison quarter like everyone else?
>>145700651>because I have a fucking job>anyone on /co/ having a jobGr8 B8 M8
>>145699754I'd guess self-publishing and binding your own books or graphic novels would be out of the question for most of them as well.
>>145699888>Why the fuck does everything have to be some major success immediately? What ever happened to a bunch of smaller successes to fill out every niche instead?The guy behind Five Nights at Freddy's released a hundred games before hitting it big.Don't stop gambling, the next one might be a win.
>>145700342So I'm not the only one who noticed this. I see a lot of tryhard, forced behavior around lolcow culture. It's hard to explain. But it tends to be either people pretending something is super crazy autistic when it isn't, or people pretending to be super crazy autistic in the hopes of gaining infamy.
go woke go broke
>>145701930I've never felt this way, personally. I think the show was best right in the middle, but I still honestly tend to prefer the later seasons over the first couple.People seem to love the first season of Billy and Mandy but I find it to be the worst one. It's a little boring, but I also agree that the last season doubled down on characters being absolutely one-note.I feel bad for Atoms. He seems like the type of guy who very much still has a huge creative drive but isn't allowed to show it much despite creating one of CN's most famous shows. Guys like him remind me of how shitty this industry can be and how it's kinda not worth the fight.
>>145695204>>145695665Because making a comic just to make money is absolutely retarded. You make a comic if you want to make a comic. Most of them aren't particularly profitable so if you don't love making comics then what the fuck are you doing? It's a completely different medium from animation. It's like asking, "why not just write a novel?" or "Why not just make a video game?" or "Why not just record a concept singer songwriter album" or "why not just put on a theater production?" Each of those mediums are capable of telling a story, but each of those mediums have a lot of other geekery that is required in order to see the project through to the end properly, and none of them are a guaranteed payday.
>>145695142What's up with this nigga?Wasn't he directing episodes of Jellystone?Does he have a coke problem or something?>>145695529What about Checkered Past though? Isn't he getting royalty checks off of that? >>145696018Can't he never, ever legally finish and release Dead Meat? Never understood that.
>>145699448>>145700065During the recent writer's strike there were a bunch of celebrities whining about residuals from recent shows.Come on, most streaming services have horrible shows and were surviving on The Office, Friends, a handful of originals. Reruns of shows like Orange is the New Black and Big Mouth are not in high demand.
>>145701712This was the fate of a lot of 2D animators when studios closed up shop.Leave the california area, go back to your hometown, work a small job and take up art class jobs if you can.
>>145701712I remember that text about Richard Williams being a guest in an art class. He was swarmed by students after because he actually knew how to draw and animate, something the school had ignored for years and prioritized art rich parents wanted.
>>145695613When I was a kid, I used to think that if you had one hit song on the radio or one show on TV, you'd be set for life. Turns out, that's far from the way things work. You can end up getting a reasonably good pay day, but it's not the sort of thing you can coast on for decades. He hasn't done a whole lot since Billy and Mandy, so when you're paying rent/bills/general expenses, that money dries up pretty quickly. Think about how much the average person needs to make a year to make ends meet. $50k would be considered a kind of crappy income but in LA, that would be closer to $75k (and that's not living great). Billy and Mandy went off the air in 2007. That's 16 years ago. So using $75k as our living expenses per year, in 16 years you can burn through $1,200,000. It sounds like a lot of money in one lump sum, but over the course of over 1.5 decades, it's really not much. It also assumes he stays within $75k a year which, again, does not go very far. One could assume he didn't live with a bunch of roommates and, as a showrunner/creator, may have splurged on more than the bare minimum here and there (especially early on). It dries up quickly. Billy and Mandy is not airing reruns on TV so he's not getting residuals from that, and money from streaming services is laughable.
>>145696098>make a massive career shift to finance or techif you think those jobs won't be supplanted by AI, you are in for a very rude awakening. It's coming for everyone.
>>145703800Dubs of truth
>>145696170>It all kind of amounts to saying "these fags aren't good enough to go indie" which sounds mean, but it's the truth.Not 100% accurate. This may be nitpicking terminology, but when crowdfunding an indie show, you need to think about targeting a demographic that has money and is willing to spend it on funding a single show. I've worked on a shit load of indie productions. Let me tell you, there can be a HUGE fanbase of people who will make their own OCs, fanfic, will change their social media usernames and avatars to match your show, will make comments about how they're the biggest fan of all time etc, but they will not donate a single dollar and will beg that it gets released for free on youtube. This is pretty common for most productions. A modest estimate is that less than 1/4 of the fan base will actually donate any money to get something made (and even then, the 'donation' is less to fund a production and more to buy merch which means only a fraction of that money goes to actually making the animation). Because of that, creators tend to need to target demographics that have deep pockets and are willing to spend it. Productions with anthropomorphized animals, for example, tend to do well because furries tend to work in tech, make good money, have fewer family obligations, and spend most of their money on their hobby. As such, being "good enough" as in having solid skills in animation and storytelling doesn't really have as much to do with it as one might think. You can have a really great idea that the majority of people love and execute it flawlessly, but if that chunk of people isn't disproportionately comprised of charitable geeks with deep pockets, your project will fail. Most of the people who suggest that 'going indie' is the way to break out of the network system have not actually donated to any campaigns themselves, yet they'll pay for a streaming service.
>>145696244>new IP ends up being lameThe new IP that ends up being greenlit is lame. Good ideas are still out there, but dipshit execs keep picking the dumbest fucking projects to fund. They make bad decisions, note projects to death making them even lamer, then blame the creatives, fire everyone, and give themselves a fat bonus.
>>145696439yeah, it's weird. I wonder if this hints at the fact that maybe Kyle isn't a good fucking person?I agree with him in that just because you want to make a cartoon doesn't mean you'd also want to make a comic. Make a comic if you want to make a comic, but it's not the same fucking thing. That said, there's a nice way to express that.
>>145696137>>145696185>>145703800Just learn machine learning and ai coding then? Shit was easy enough for me. Ai is still man made, it bugs out and needs updates like anything else we humans program.
>>1456964761) Royalty checks aren't as substantial as people think2) B&M would have to still be airing reruns for that to even happen
>>145703724I work a shitty sales job at a printer company. The dude next to me played 2 years in the MLB in the 90s and has an Olympic Gold medal. Fame and fortune doesn't last forever these days.
>>145696620>Why does he make it sound like making his pitches into animated projects is more profitable? Animation is more time consuming than comics, and getting picked up by TV networks is not going to automatically make you rich.That's one way to read it. Another is that either project is going to require a lot of time and effort with no promise of financial return. If you're going to spend all that time working on something, you might as well do it on something you actually want to make. If you love cartoons, it can be personally rewarding to try to make a cartoon even if you end up failing since you enjoy the process. If you dislike making comics, the only way it would be worthwhile is if it made you money or lead to something else. Since the likelihood of that happening is very slim, it's kind of dumb to work on a comic unless you really want to work on a comic.
>>145696794now compare those few success stories to the countless number of comics that never went fucking anywhere.
>>145704177Same can be said for animation, anon
>>145704106>Just learn machine learning and ai coding then?oh sweet summer child
>>145703724>$50k would be considered a kind of crappy incomeI wish I lived the life of people who say things like this. I make 34k and I put 10 of those into savings. Idk what the fuck you people are wasting money on.
>>145704155Yeah, the Olympian thing is a real kick to the balls. Again, when I was a kid I used to think these people would be set for life, but what the fuck do athletes do once they win the Olympics? They have a highly specialized skill that they have won the highest level of recognition for and it is completely useless in real life. Figure skaters end up going on tour with the fucking ice capades doing a solo number between skaters in dopey costumes for screaming kids, and some others may be able to set up some sort of camp or school with their notoriety. Other than that, you get a normal-ass job and get bragging rights for something most people won't believe anyway.
>>145696399To be fair that Brandon guy is the last person who should give advice.
>>145704196Right. The point is that if your goal is to make an animation, you have no interest in making a comic, and there's no guarantee that making a comic would lead to being able to make an animation, then why would you spend time working on a comic? If the road to making an animation fails, at least you spent your time working on something you give a shit about.
>>145704284If you're living off of $24k you either live in an insanely fucking poor area where cost of living is dirt fucking cheap, or you live with relatives. Either way, I'm guessing not a lot of people who live near you work in entertainment.
>>145699640Maxwell Atoms looked disgusting - skin tumors protruding - when he appeared on ebay peddling his hateful fart cartoons. Very, very disrespectful.
>>145695142>skin cancerDoes that mean hes gonna be the third CN creative to bite the dust after Everett Peck?Especially when he has no access to health insurance.
>>145695875tell him to draw fetish porn that he "enjoys"
>>145695142To all the anons posting "why doesn't he start up an indie animation project" - none of you cheapskate skinflints have ever donated so little as a nickel to support any animation project, and you would mock and deride anyone who did as a fancuck or shill - the idea of paying for anything is physically offensive to you, it's other people's job to make the things you torrent. That's why there are so few indie animation projects.
>>145696743I guess super dee was smart to get into the newspaper comic business. While it's a dead medium people are paying him to have his comics in their newspapers, and since no other young online creator has interest in getting into it he has a bit of a monopoly over being one of the only modern newspaper comic artists.
>>145704720>That's why there are so few indie animation projects.There's so few indie animation projects because creators try to make a 30 minute-long pilot on Kickstarter for 100,000 and can't get more than 2 minutes complete on that budget because they don't understand they have to work smarter and smaller.People give money to artists who make something, not artists who promise to make something.
>>145695702>this is how /co/ thinks the animation industry works
>>145695142I know he's above it, but I really think he should play the autism card. Dude is seriously one of the biggest names in the animation industry to be on the spectrum. He could probably use it in his favor somehow.
>>145704776>People give money to artists who make something, not artists who promise to make somethingThis is, and I'm not trying to be mean, one of the single most retarded takes on how crowdfunding works. Make sure to wear your helmet today, anon.
>>145704284>Idk what the fuck you people are wasting money on.Los Angeles rent. Can't move because that's where the industry is.1br apartments are $2000k/mo. Shit is more fucked than you can even imagine right now.
>>145704838You didn't actually respond to his argument.
>>145704838what the fuck are you talking about
>>145704838I'll bite, I'll take the bait.So many people just start a Kickstarter with zero clout, an extremely small fanbase, no finished projects to speak of. They expect people to care and give a shit about their characters and ideas without presenting anything other than a pitch, and it seldom ever works.Why did Hazbin Hotel, Litterbox, the LSMark cartoon, and Lackadaisy happen? Because the creators actually made something first and built a following that encouraged people to give money later.Simply saying "support indie animation" is not enough. Artists need to start small before they can actually expect to see big results. They DO need to make something instead of just promising to make something when it comes to animation. Even indie game developers usually have a functioning proof of concept before launching a crowdfunding campaign. With animation you can't just pitch an idea with a few illustrations and expect over $50,000 just with that.
LOL!
>>145696743I agree in principle, but our animation industry is not set up to have a lot of synergy with our comic industry.If you write a comic that gains a fanbase and a studio is interested in adapting it, the studio will most likely change 50% or more of your comic thereby defeating the whole purpose of having a built-in fanbase to begin with. For example, whatever your thoughts are on The Boys, does that really benefit from being a comic book adaptation? Fans of the comics hate the changes, fans of the TV show hate the comics, and most of the viewers didn't even know it was a comic. Many comic adaptations also don't hire the comic author to be a showrunner/director. Noelle admits to doing nothing for Nimona. The end goal for a lot of people is not just to make money, but to see their vision reach a bigger audience. If their vision isn't done by them and reaches a separate audience instead of expanding the current one, what motivation does an animator have to turn to comic books first?
>>145695893Hey it's those houses from the meme
>>145703216I would imagine the amount of time and money you'd spend doing it yourself would further drive up cost than if you just paid a company to do it
>>145695142So glad that he and that guy who made Space Ghost Coast are on the verge of homelessness, this should happen to all the faggots in the Industry
>>145706001Get back to your Wal Mart shift, no-talent. Your supervisor 10 years younger than you needs you to clean up some puke.
>>145698764Best case scenario he becomes an adjunct professor at a community college and gets let go in a few years due to budget cuts.
>>145703229Zoomers desperately want to get in on the Lolcow craze because they want to morally lord over someone beneath them. It's all about being righteous and above it for some of them now. The one's who want to become Lolcows want the attention and potential money that might come from itSome of these Zoomers have their priorities and understanding skewed
>>145706071I'm not working at Wal-Mart, but thanks for sharing that you're maldingI hold Wal-Mart employees higher than any Disney, Nickelodeon, or CN/WBD employee
>>145706071>t. seething industryfagStrike all you like, you're as disposable as all the rest, enjoy the ride in the revolving door
>>145704768Newspaper comics are such a niche medium that there's basically no competition. Hell, the Nancy reboot is basically just a standard Twitter webcomic, but it got a lot of attention when it came out just because it's competition is Family Circus and Dogwood. Putting anything mildly interesting in there automatically makes you stand out.
>>145706223>>145706206>this much seethe over someone not wanting another person to be homelessI mean damn is it jealousy, immaturity, or both?
>>145698682You're the outlier. Young kids weren't watching these reruns.
>>145695893that haircut isn't doing her any favors
>>145706255Don't think you're in the right when you use retail work as an insult, asskisser, and most animators have giant chips on their shoulders over those they disagree with, fuck you for defending their crappy behavior
>>145699316They don't make products that are quality or have appeal. Look, Teens Titans Go isn't the highest quality cartoon but kids find it hilarious. Today's creatives are not in touch with what their audiences want and I think it's cause these older creators didn't have as much competition back in the day from old shows, YT, etc. So maybe kids back then wouldn't have chosen to watch PPG over that. But back then, there were few alternatives so those creators had hits. Now we see that they maybe never knew what people wanted to see and were thriving off of low competition environment.
>>145695596If you're not constantly badgering on about how horrible a subject is in a non-humorous way then it apparently counts as endorsement
>>145700461He could easily get a job. Dude, putting Cartoon Network showrunner on a college animation professor application has to be an instant hire. He just doesn't want to work. There's guys who never made it teaching animation at colleges.
>>145706288They definitely were in the 60's-80's, maybe even 90's with some cases. The whole monster mania craze of the 60's/70's came from 40's movie reruns being popular with kids
>>145696067NOOOOOWHO BOUGHT ITI’LL BUY IT FROM YOU
>>145696743To be fair webcomics is a dying format.The creator of Lackadaisy cats spent 10+ years laboring on the webcomic for only moderate success.It wasn’t until she did the animations that it became mainstream.Everyone is going after the animation $$$ train
>>145704768Dee had the benefit of being born in the same place as Jim Davis who he met before and who probably vouched for in the industryBut not to make his achievements sound neopotistic he did also put himself out there in the public repeatedly, from showing his work to school children to getting his art in art galleries
>>14569673790% of people go into art so they can develop the skills to produce their own fap material.And 10% of those people are smart enough not to share said fap material on the internet.
>>145696743No sane person with bills to pay is going to start a webcomic thinking there's a decent chance they'll strike gold
>>145704216As someone who trains this ai shit most scares surrounding it are laughable. It's just an advance sorting system that still manages to fuck up all the time. By the time it even remotely has a chance to put advanced programmers like myself out of the job I'll already have my freelance app money to coast on.
>>145706556Svengoolie seems to be a show that has grown in popularity. Supposedly a lot of people have bought antennas just to watch it every week.
>>145707027So many keep flip-flopping between thinking AI's output is horrible to AI will take art and voice over roles.
>>145700342>>145703229>>145703229We're at the point now where lolcow culture has become relatively mainstream, except now it's rebranded as "Commentary." No longer is it contained to niche forums pages, there are hundreds of teenagers/young adults with Blue Snowball mics and cartoon pfp's who make a living off stalking and documenting the acts of random freaks on websites that billions of people are using everyday.
The biggest lolcow turn around has to be Ben Garrison.
>>145695875>worked with a huge firm for a year, definitely made some posters and logos most burger anons have seen>wasn’t happy with the work, bored to tears and told me he usually finished his weekly tasks before monday afternoonMaybe it's because I'm STEM, but what the FUCK is this mentality!? If you have time on your hands, work on a side project! You need to be fucking efficient with your time, and if you land a job that you can get done early, why the ever-loving fuck would you leave it or even turn in things early!
>>145707199It really all depends on if and when the US government decides to put regulations on it. There's companies i've worked for that have job regulations on it already. I heard the EU motioned on regulations a while ago. Either way anyone being scarred out of STEM employment by this shit is a pussy. All jobs could be theoretically replaced by robots/AI. But that would literally mean the next great depression. It obviously won't come to that.
>>145696118That's the point. Cancel the good shit, only renew the safe and boring stuff so that the rest of the board of directors finally agree that "no one wants animation anymore" so they can sell off streaming rights to the highest bidder.Why take a risk when you know someone will pay big bucks to "save" the new Batman cartoon? Why greenlight new shows when you know you can make bank on a "rival" service paying big bucks for your classic shows.
>>145707511>But that would literally mean the next great depression. It obviously won't come to that.Normalcy bias is a bitch
loser
FAIL!
New item up, Evil Con Carne pilot storyboards
>>145695210Shut the fuck up. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
>>145696476>>145696859>>145704109Isn't it on Checkered Past?
>>145695643new LSmark thread when
How high do you think the storyboards will go? My brother's birthday is coming up.
>>145706288>you're the outlierLOL, fuck off, zoomer.Seriously, you might be retarded, because if you thought about it for a couple of seconds, you'd understand what a stupid statement this is.Cable and over their air tv stations wouldn't be licensing old ass shit if no one was watching them. They wouldn't be paying out the ass to show reruns of old TV shows if they didn't make them millions of dollars every year. They'd have gone out of business in years and most cable stations you know today wouldn't exist, because old shows got millions of views every year. Shit like Breaking Bad and Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy was FUNDED by the ad revenue TNT/CN got from showing reruns.This is why people are wondering why Maxwell Atoms is broke, because showing reruns USED to make a shit ton of money that old actors/creators used use to retire from. Those royalty checks USED to be worth a lot, because of how tv stations would compete over each other to get oldass shows to show in the mornings, afternoons, or late at night.So anyone older than a zoomer? Yeah, we understand references from shit before we were born, because we didn't have the internet giving us 24/7 entertainment about are autistic interests, because we only had cable or rabbit ears, and we had to expand our knowledge by watching old shit if we didn't want to go outside and play.The outliers are the people who didn't have a TV or DIDN'T watch reruns.
>>145695142Maybe if he stopped saying his name, none of this would happen.
>>145695613he has been working somewhat consistently since the end of Billy and Mandybut with how the industry is he probably doesn't see himself getting to work on a big project in a long time so he's just has the foresight to start finding alternative sources of income instead of dipping heavy into his savings
>>145702756>he's never had a cutey coffee shop girl say she totally wants to get into star wars to her cutey coworker (who thought she was the only one that flirted with you), because she sees you reading a star wars book everyday in the shopYeah, i collect comics, toys, and other shit, especially when I don't have a nagging GF, which has been since COVID lockdowns started and i got fat. So my collection has grown.
>>145696171sauce for this degeneracy
>>145695210Another hater?
>>145709348Whose name? Lord Moldybutt?
>>145696157ZeroHis drawing skill is not appealing to coomers
>>145707435Dude didn't realize how lucky he was with his first "real" job and fucked it up.
>>145701712This. If fucking Bendis can get a job teaching college students how to write comics he can get one teaching animation.
>>145696399This is ironic considering Olan Rogers absolutely took the opportunity to finish Final Space even if it had to be a graphic novel. It's almost like passion should matter more than success.
>>145704366Stop fucking living in LA. Go indie, you dumb cunt.
remember when switching to digital production was supposed to be a huge money saver?and rigged animation like flash was supposed to save even more?if your product got even cheaper to make, why are the networks acting 10x more risk averse?
>>145695194Never got to see Harolds naked butt
>>145696157
>>145710547Cartoons are still very time and money intestive. Streaming and othert cultural and technological changes make having a cartoon be more risky. Traditional television is dying out and the field of extertainment has never been so wide and diverse before. Like imagine making something like Twelve Forever and seeing all of that money and time fizzle out. Corporations are bigger than ever so they need more money to just make things even. I'm not saying they're justified or that it's even smart, but they're corporations first and vehicles of art third at best. The current risks now are just so big that it overwhelms the advancements we made in animation.
>>145710547Because 30-40 years ago studios and networks were run by coked out lunatics who greenlit anything that sounded ambitious and understood that the easiest way to make a hit film or series was to hire a bunch of super talented people and then give them just enough freedom to get creative, just enough guidelines to keep them from going off the rails, just enough support to succeed, and just enough limits to keep production challenging.Now studios and executives are run by bean counters and actuaries - people who think you can focus group and algorithm your way to one hit series or billion dollar blockbuster after another.
>>145695142>Discovers he's still having a hell of a hard time getting by>Discovers he's got skin cancer on top of that>Was about to make Virgin vs Chad meme with Grim vs Zim
>>145710733man fuck cancer, it's an evil indiscriminate cunt
>>145710776>>145710733I long for the day where Cancer is mostly gone and the word is instead more associated with cringe
>>145710776>>145710785Preach!
>>145710547because funding decreased by over 10xbeforehand if you had a cartoon on tv, you were almost guaranteed funding from a breakfast cereal or snack companyif you put out toys, clothing, or other merch even betterbut then it became borderline illegal to advertise to kids on broadcast tv. ad restrictions eventually came to cable, tooweird how youtube gets away with it tho
>>145710818Presumably, YouTube/Google abuses the loophole of it being "technically not TV"?
>>145695142>$300+>for photocopies, not the originalgeez, wonder how much his originals would have gone for
>>145695893Meh, close enough.
Could creators like him make any decent amount of money doing art commissions? I figure if people would pay a decent bit of money to have official recognizable cartoon art styles of them or their characters or whatever. Even $50-$100 a pop would probably not hurt.
>>145710887He's probably super jaded over AI stealing his artstyle and thinks if he posts more art it'll just get fed to create slop out of his style.
>>145711151If he's this desperate he's probably not in a position to worry about that kind of stuff
>>145701499What is there to laugh at though?
>>145695234Most showrunners don't get paid a substantial amount plus it's a very gig-based career and he's in the middle of a guild strike.
>>145699083I liked season 2, main problem is that most of season 3 was a fucking dream sequence which was a terrible creative decision.
>>145706483>But back then, there were few alternatives so those creators had hits.AHahahhaHere's a list of cartoons that STARTED airing in 1999 and only the US ones. That means shit like Ed Edd and Eddy, Cybersix, or Dragon Tales aren't in this part of the list, because they're from Canada, UK, etc.Nevermind all the other shows that were continuing on from years before and the hundreds of other cartoons from decades before still being shown as reruns.Kids had so many choices back then, it was ridiculous.
Filmation animation with Star Trek TAS level writing needs to make a comeback.
>>145695674>16 Originals
>>145695142Just fund him already.
>>145710785>>145710808Too bad anyone found to be on the track of cure gose "missing" or dies via 300 suicide gunshots.
>>145710236It was either that or Olan would blow up WB headquarters.
>>145710064>
>>145695142Why can’t WB approve a Scooby/Billy and Mandy crossover? They approved Velma of all things.
>>145695142>skin cancerOh damn.
>>145696347He's stopped spamming at least.
>>145695142So is Billy and Mandy good?I missed out on 90s and early 2000s CN, but I've enjoyed the episodes I've seen of Courage, Dexter, Ed, Edd, & Eddy, Johnny Bravo, and Sheep in the Big City.
>>145707435Yeah he honestly sounds like a sheltered little soiboi, so concerned with getting fulfillment from the job he ignored how said job gave him the most precious resource of time. He probably wanted the big title and praise to go along with it more than he admits, so the time alone wasn't enough for his ego. He'll probably suicide in his 40s when it starts to dawn on him he became a nobody
>>145712081That would've been something alright.
>>145712304Majority of it is great, but don't watch the last season aside from the Nigel Planter finale and Underfist. The last season definitely felt like the writers just got tired of making episodes and they even recycled gags from their previous shows like Evil Con Carne.
>>145696098It's not that the jobs were unstable, it's that the guy himself was just that.
>>145698682Zoomers watched Tom and Jerry and Looney Tunes whenever they reran on CN. Gen Z's 1995-2009. If you're within that range, you're a zoomer too.
>>145709993Go to the gym, dude.
>>145695142Hope it goes well.
>>145697266>Webtoons is so flooded with content that breaking through the noise is a Herculean task in of itself.And that's not even the worst part of Webtoons, the whole "giving over all creative rights" thing you have to do to put your stuff on the platform is enough to scare off any experienced creator. At least when you sell out to a big studio you get a decent payday.
>>145712573Nah, i just need to go out again.I already have weights and a stationary bike, and i used to use them regularly. COVID just fucked everything up. Everyone wearing masks and avoiding each other, so no one was friendly with me anymore. I also stopped shaving too. Now i have a beard and gray hair, so i look like my age now. No more cuties flirt with me anymore (aside from some weird interactions), but I'm happy with myself and probably feel lazier from being fat, so.... meh? I'm having fun with my cool shit and i can't complain.I mean, if i had a GF, i wouldn't have bought stuff from the last time Atoms was selling his shit off. I'd also miss out on the cool shit he's offering right now, because I'd waste it on on some fancy meal I don't think is that great, because i'll just shit it out 24 hours later.Having some nice art i can keep forever >>>>> ~30 minutes of tasty foodI do excercise on my bike for convention season though, just to build up some stamina and not be a sweaty mess from spending hours standing up and walking. I stopped the past month, just because i've gotten busy with work, but the LA convention is coming up.Check out some awesome as fuck sketches by Katsuya Terada and William Stout i got because i get to keep more of my money for shit i like.
>>145712890KINO! post more
>>145707199both are true. The output fucking sucks, but that won't stop execs from using it to replace actual artist and voice actors (and eventually musicians, writers, and sound designers too). Just because it's shittier doesn't mean they won't use it. As long as people are complacent enough to keep gobbling the slop, the standards will continue slipping and they ARE complacent. Most people just passively consume whatever is served to them and forget it almost immediately afterwards. Networks don't make art. They make 'content'.
>>145707511>It obviously won't come to that*laughs in capitalism*Zuckerberg is building a multi-billion dollar underground bunker in Hawaii. It's almost as if he's anticipating something potentially really bad happening. While I agree that it seems likely the government and oligarchs would try to avoid such massive upset, I also don't think it's as improbable as you seem to think.
>>145709863I think he sunk a decent amount of his own money into developing Dead Meat
>>145709993You can slim down if you want to. Figure out how many calories you need to eat a day to maintain your current weight, then subtract 500 from that. That should be your daily limit. Establish your nutrition macros (protein/carbs/fat). Estimate about 1g of protein per lb of goal weight. If you're working out, you can estimate about the same amount of grams for carbs, and then fill the rest of your calories with fat. There's a decent amount of wiggle room with the carb/fat macros, so adjust to whatever fits your lifestyle best. Use a calorie counting app so it will calculate the nutrition of everything you're eating automatically (including how much protein is in each thing you're eating etc). It should give you daily tallies so you can make sure you're staying on target with calories and macros. Weigh all your food by grams. Don't fuck around with cups and tablespoon measurements...that shit is inaccurate. You can pretty much eat and drink whatever you want just as long as you don't go over your caloric limit and make sure to get your protein. Track your weight. You should lose ~1 lb a week (with fluctuations...sometimes you'll gain). If not, subtract 50 cal.Find a 12 week weight lifting plan for beginners online. There are plenty of them available. There are a shitload of free ones on muscleandstrength dot com (they make their money by selling supplements and shit, but you can just ignore that and use their workout info). Make sure to have a plan, though. Don't just wander through the gym and do whatever. A lot of intro workout plans only require ~45 min a day. In the beginning you can probably lift 3 days a week with rest days in between. As you start to get in better shape, you can add cardio to your off days. If you actually watch your nutrition and get what you need and keep workouts intense but reasonable, it will be sustainable in the long term. You'll be surprised at how easy it is to get in shape when you actually try to do it right.
>>1457103651) I don't live in LA or anywhere remotely near it. 2) I work almost exclusively on indie productions.Not all of us can leach off of family and most of us don't want to live in whatever bumfuck middle of nowhere you're stuck in. Living off $24k a year is nearly fucking impossible without extraordinary circumstances.
>>145710547>if your product got even cheaper to make, why are the networks acting 10x more risk averse?because they're still chasing infinite financial growth. The product getting cheaper doesn't mean they have more money to play with to take risks or invest in new ideas. It just means that the "extra" cash goes into the pockets of execs and investors. Once they get that nice little boost, they want the number to keep going up so they find even cheaper ways of working, cut down staff, reduce number of episodes, while increasing prices for their services (and selling ads on streaming services that you already pay for).
>>145710640>people who think you can focus group and algorithm your way to one hit series or billion dollar blockbuster after anotherYeah, and the very best you can do with that is almost replicating the success of whatever it is that data is suggesting you copy. I don't know why it seems so difficult to realize that Adventure Time and Spongebob weren't always the megoliths they became. At one point, someone had to take a chance on them and give them enough space to do their thing.
>>145710865>for photocopies, not the originalYeah, I saw that too. Spending $300 on what ends up being a xerox of the original is some shady craigslist shit.
>>145710887>$50-$100 a popI'm sure if push came to shove he could do that, but that's insanely low for a commission (especially a guy who had a hit show and is a recognized name in the business). $50-$100 may be fine for some con-tabling etsy-store-having geeky sparkles twitter rando, but someone like Maxwell Atoms spent more than an hour on the drawing, he'd need to raise the price. If he was selling commissions for $50 a pop, that would be some really depressing shit. I know no-name artists that charge $500. At least his hocking his production materials is mostly passive work. He's just getting rid of shit that's likely taking up space in his home or storage unit, but aside from listing it and shipping it, he doesn't need to put forth any effort.
>>145711331>Most showrunners don't get paid a substantial amount plus it's a very gig-based career and he's in the middle of a guild strike.He's also old and Hollywood famously favors the young and beautiful. He doesn't have the same sort of storied career that Craig McCracken or Genndy Tartakovsky have, so he can't really bank on having 'legendary' status either. He's just a guy who did a show like 20 years ago.
>>145711502holy shit, courage started in 1999? I wonder why I remember it being older than that.
>>145711805
>>145699497>>145706381maybe it's just an unflattering angle
>>145707435>>145710170>>145712393>If you have time on your hands, work on a side project! If he was working from home, that seems like an ideal gig, but I'd guess he was actually on site. You can't just work on whatever you want when you're working in an office setting. People notice that shit and once they realize your work is done beause you can work faster than they thought, they expect you to work at your fastest pace all the time (with no raise in pay, of course). I know people in software development who had the same problem. They'd spend most of their week dicking around on the internet and then finish everything they needed to do in like a day.
>>145714119unfortunately most of her angles tend to be kind of unflattering with that haircut. She's definitely not ugly, but she has a very prominent jawbone which could probably stand to be softened a touch with slightly longer hair. The pixie cut tends to only really work on really waifish women.
>>145714174Atoms deserved better, his ex wife left his ages ago.
>>145714313was she cute?
>>145714317Mandy was based on her.
>>145698682What's with this deranged hate for zoomers coming from?
>>145712483Thanks
>>145714742>deranged>hateSorry that you don't like the reality of how zoomers were raised and behave due to the modern environment.If that guy isn't a zoomer, because he's shown his ignorance of how the past TV shows were rerun constantly, then is he a third worlder who doesn't know how entrenched television and its culture was in the US for almost 70 years?
>>145714113
>>145707756>>145713738Doomsday prepping by the rich and powerful has always been a thing. Also normalcy bias implies I plan on doing nothing to fight the rise of AI/automation wich isn't true for me.
>>145696481I love animators and I live animation. The sad reality of the world though is supply and demand, finding a job you like doing is great but ultimately a luxury. I've conceded that I'd rather play videogames and watch cartoons in my free time rsther thwn build a career off of it. It's an awesome job to have but I don't know how prosperous or fulfilling it would be, not everyone can make their own shows and dictate the themes, writing, visual style, and general cohesive vision, South Park was lightning in a bottle and Vivziepop gets bankrolled by her rich parents and patreons as a super succesful industry plant. I want artists to be succesful and make good works but how poorly the job pays is far from a secret to anyone.
>>145711502Then why can't these current creators find an audience? You're suggesting they do have such a talent, yet are floundering with even more creative control.
>>145697293My issue is we humans all the time copy and adapt someone's artstyle into our own. I lesrned to draw characters in my style first from drawing other peoples' works and reverse engineering the shapes into my muscle memory. I never had a formal artistic background, but everyone knows suck a formal background is 2nd to actually being able to make the work and make it look good. If I'm a big Spumco fan and learn to draw whacky anatomy like John K does, am I "stealing his work" by making my own characters and stories drawing like he does? Fundimenally the notion is regressive and stifiling to the artistic world, and nobody gens AI art expecting applaus for genning a piece.
>>145696023>the Patrick Star ShowI wonder if being an artist for Concord sucked as bad as that job probably did.
>>145713711>As long as people are complacent enough to keep gobbling the slop,The general normie reaction has been pretty negative to AI though. These executives are out of touch as fuck. More people are losing intrest in TV cause it sucks. Pirating is becoming popular aswell. So whatever money these executive are clinging too will run dry. Even dumbass normies knew early on AI shit could potentially put them out of work. To the point we're already seeing other countries and companies put regulations due to the immediate russeled jimmes. Lots of companies try to hide the fact they use ai in their slop on top of that, so their aware normies don't like it. I think there's too much pushback already for primitive AI for it to really screw us unethically.
>>145715168because the current market is shit.Kids aren't watching cable anymore, which was one of the biggest market for cartoons once broadcast children blocks started dying in the 90s. How do you monetize them when there's so many laws working against that, muchless FIND them?Streaming is fucking awful to find anything new on, unless it has heavy marketing behind it. So even movies with famous actors are being passed over, like some straight to VHS film from the 90s.So what kids ARE watching is cheapo reality crap on youtube/tiktok/myspace that costs nothing to produce and their attention span has been reduced to a few minute chunks at most, so this makes it hard to make anything for them in a traditional way.Yeah, not every kid is in need of speed, but it's still like herding cats nowadays because of how super fragmented they are in how/where they get their entertainment. Is youtube funding any cartoons to attract kids? No, some indian is able to make cheap cgi shorts starring optimus prime and snow white is already doing that for them. Kids also don't have money to fund some indie animated project and by the time that indie animated short is made, they're already adults.In short, traditional cartoons and its future is pretty fucked, because their traditional audience is MIA. There's no centralization anymore, that made it easy for everyone to find what they were looking for, which allowed for bigger projects to be made, because more eyes were tuned to a popular channel (ABC, NBC, CBS) or specific interest (cartoon network, sci fi channel, etc).Everyone and everything is too spread out now.
>>145714601you have pics?
>>145713711Sounds like you dont hate the player, hate the game. Video games, cartoons, movies, every single industry outputs the cheapest slop possible yesrs before GPT and Dall-E were even in the public eye. "Why spend time making good writing and plots when we can just do good marketing?" "Why design a fun game when pretty lights, boobs, woke race and gender pandering, and marketing would be cheaper and faster?" I greatly value AI for its uses to the zcientific community and the boon it gices to the individual. That boon is hampered by corporations gimping and controlling the models to censor or add elements to their liking, but its a boon nonetheless, and there are plenty of non-pozzed models out there (you are on 4chan, you know where to look).
>>145697213Ahhh I see.You failed. They didn't. Thanks for validating the reasons I think why losers like you like Ai, you're a failure as an artist and a person, and it doesn't matter if it's some fucking faggots at California or some Hick from Louisiana, they made it being an artist and you didn't, I bet that really pisses you off eh? Maybe you where never that good, and Ai will just replace retards like you from ever trying, enjoy weilding fucking cars and scooters for now, retards like you think you're not replaceable, just wait in the next 5 years when AI machinery takes the low effort jobs wagie ;)
>>145715639>>145697213Let's be real here, good art can be praised and rewarded but the industry does not use greatness or skill as a primary criterion for rewarding with good jobs or salaries.
>>145715639>>145697213crabs in a bucket. If anon can't make it, nobody should. I think the fact that so many anons desperately cling to the idea that anyone who gets a gig in animation is the result of nepotism is an extreme cope. If anon tried and failed (and couldn't even get work on an indie production, of which there are countless now) then the problem is probably that anon just isn't that good. Fucking high schoolers are getting jobs on indie productions. You don't have to have relatives in high places, you just have to be good, fast enough to work on deadline, and nice enough that people don't despise you.
>>145715784Moving up in the animation industry works like just about every other industry. You can be a phenomenal bartender who is super fast and knows a million cocktails, but if your people skills suck, if you don't know how to network, if you don't put in face time and make sure that key industry players know who you are and that you attend key events for the bar industry, you're not going to move up to being a brand ambassador for a sweet whiskey distillery. I've been in the position to hire and promote within my own industry. Having great skills is obviously great for a candidate, but if one person is phenomenal but a real bummer to talk to and another is pretty fucking good (though not as good), but easier to get along with, I'd much rather hire the second candidate. I can teach them how to level up their technical skills, but I can't teach them how to coexist with coworkers.
>>145711528theres always youtube, give it a shoti believe in you
>>145711528This is not what you said but it reminded me of this cute parody cartoon from years agohttps://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcIIyFtX1EqvsqvuXN_M6gQRkvhSXsW2J
>>145712304I think the middle seasons when it had its identity but didnt run out of ideas was the best. Its tounge and cheek, it was edgy for its time as a kids show but compared to nowadays other than a few jokes that would be conisdered sexist or misogynistic its pretty tame. The comedic timing is good, not above slapstick or Tom-and-Jerry levels of physical humor but it also has wit to match. How often it goes off the walls or creates situations that couldn't possibly be reset back to status quo like Aquateen Hunger Force does it amusing. I'd say it's worth. It's like Johnny Bravo tier pacing and humor but creeping into Courage in theme, not spooky or scary but more "the fun of being freaky/weird".
>>145695210>>145701499>AHAHA NO ONE WANTED HIS (good) SHOWS WHAT A FAGGOTGain a sense of humor, can't believe I'm agreeing with a tripfag
>>145695142Well, that's what he gets for not adapting and being good enough in the industry like the ones who is doing stuff in Disney like the showrunners of BGC, P&F and Kiff.Also I do agree that the toilet Humor did went over-board as the show progresses, specially past S2 and the horror aspect from S1/S2 gets sidelined more and more.
>>145697213Fellow artist here.Haven't even failed yet but based, fuck everybody including you and me.>>145715792Crab supremacy, total artist death.
Please pass the egg salad
>>145717197FRAGGLE ROCK!
How many of you know Maxwell Atoms isn't his real name?
>>145717297I did but I forgot his real name
>>145717197What about the dog steak sauce?
>>145710876Kek I thought the same thing.
>>145695529how is that legal?
>>145714065I just threw out numbers. I've never commissioned an artist so i have no idea what they charge
>>145718043Says a lot when things are not regulated by the law since it's them who handles this stuff.Feels like a player taking advantage of bugs until the devs patch it up... if they ever do it. Just opportunist thing.
>>145718043>>145718095It shouldn't be legal and it absolutely sucks. Royalties from streaming are essentially non-existent and it screws artists out of back-end payments that used to make their career more sustainable. And I know /co/ hates artists and think they deserve to lose money, but on the other hand these fucking tech bro streaming services are operating a business based on a model that shouldn't exist. They're devaluing their own product and simply not paying for shit they should, and then boasting about record profits. If they can't figure out how to be a sustainable business while paying what they should for their base product, then they don't have a viable business plan. They need to pay their fair share.
>>145718043execs
>>145696284Indie shorts don't usually pay the bills, there's a reason why the vast majority of them come from people while they're still in college or right after.
>>145696794Noelle Stevenson slept her to success, not exactly a good guide for others.
>>145715182The big difference is that in order to imitate it takes time and effort on top of the human element that comes with imperfectly copying something. Once you bring machines into it, things change quite a bit. It's also quite obvious that a lot of these big companies are jacking off the the thought of firing most creatives and replacing them with gen AIslop.
>>145698764Because animation college jobs are extremely finite and very niche
>>145698764This is written like a relative who says "omg anon, that drawing is really good! You should send it in to Disney!". Yeah...just "send it in". Address it to Disney Land and address it to Mickey Mouse. A job in academia isn't something that you can just 'get'. Most of the time they prefer you have at least a masters degree, though they may make an exception if you have a storied career. Still, in order to find an opportunity like that, Atoms would need to schmooze like a sonofabitch in academic circles and basically build up a whole other identity/career in academia. And then if he actually booked the gig, he'd need to actually teach classes and grade assignments. The money from those jobs isn't nearly as much as you might think so the idea that he could fund an animated production with it is almost laughable, but even if he could, he'd need to find the time. Teaching requires a shitload of time both in class as well as out. If this was the obvious move, we'd see a lot more animation professors who were a lot more prolific. Instead, they tend to put out a scant short here and there and the quality tends to be absolute dogshit. As they say, those who can't do teach.
>>145718145>Royalties from streaming are essentially non-existent and it screws artists out of back-end payments that used to make their career more sustainable.It's not guaranteed shows will get as many views on streaming either. Ads probably helped a lot.A while ago Kimiko Glenn a voice actor from Kiff complained she got few residuals from Orange is the New Black. That doesn't seem like a show that many people could turn on and watch any random episode.
>>145719188Kek, I was proven rightYou Kiwifaggots are a parody
>>145696399I'd tell him animators often work in literature and comics but its too late now.
>>145719402FAIL!
>>145719311How many posts do you give that until the Spumco-loving girl who Kyle showed his bunghole to shows up, or the jannies prune it?
>>145695142I feel really badly. He's tried to reboot old shows, pitch new ones - they just aren't interested. They have a fucking formula, and anything kind of funny or goofy isn't "good enough." In cartoons!
>>145719727Which ones?
>>145695142I gave him money for Dead Meat so am I ever gonna get my donor freebies?
>>145720205He's tried to pitch Billy and Mandy revivals, and I think 3-4 others. Netflix, Paramount, Disney -- no interest. At all. They have a "pipeline" and they just don't give a shit. "Molly McGee" took 12 years to make it out the door, and most of it was in-house at TVA. If it's "too out there" or "odd," they don't want it. Shit like "Edd, Ed, and Eddy" don't get a second look now, it's "too childish." IN CARTOONS!
>>145720245funny how to networks dont let kids vote anymore
>>145720349Disney "led the way" in market segmentation and focus groups. Now they're convinced they can just engineer "what kids like" without any risk. So now kids see it's all bland shit and mostly dislike it. "Hailey's On It!" was a giant nothing. At least Molly McGee had kids who actually acted a little strange, not just "oh, I'm clumsy, but otherwise do well in all my classes and don't act ~weird~ or whatever."
>>145720417That show had trans kids.
>>145720921It doesn't matter if they're all boring, man.
>>145703410That image that gets shared around takes it out of context
>>145695875Getting jobs in graphic design is touch especially if you don't have the right connections. Ive moved into a general marketing job for a small local IT place.
>>145720964Sad!
>>145696399...Are his shows just the same character types over and over again?
>>145722000He really loves the goofy guy and sexy lady one the most, yeah.There a few others that break from the formula but still feel strangely derivative.
>>145695875>worked with a huge firm for a year, definitely made some posters and logos most burger anons have seenSuch as?
>>145695142I wish I grew up to be a millionaire so I could help him out :(
why doesnt he do the con circuit
>>145722274Because cons fucking suck ass for creators to do (though they're obligated to pretend that they love it) and nobody would be willing to pay him enough to make it worth his while unless he was a moderator on a panel. Unfortunately he's not relevant enough.
>>145722491random extras on star trek can live off giving autographs and selling pictures, im sure maxwell would do just fine
>>145722564Are you really comparing the popularity of Star Trek to Billy and Mandy?
>>145722491There are comic writers and artists who haven’t been relevant for decades that get travel & hotel paid for by some conventions.
>>145718797i really don't believe he would have to schmooze that hard. he worked at CN as a showrunner. The animation professors at these schools would want to schmooze with him. i think it's pride why more animation guys don't become professors.
>>145722611That's not how academia works. I know you think it should, but it doesn't. Otherwise it would be the retirement plan of most old showrunners. How many of them are professors?
>>145722608>travel & hotel paid forOh, well in that case if they throw in some free hand sanitizer and a tote bag too it's a pretty sweet deal.
>>145695674>16 originalsgoddamn...prolly not a good idea but has he tried to pitch a kickstarter?
>>145696495Become socialist
>>145695142Rip
>>145720232he offered refunds when the project got ratfucked
>>145713902>whatever bumfuck middle of nowhereThe words of someone suffering in THE HUSTLE AND BUSTLE of chasing arbitrary social statuses.
>>145696399Then you got dipshits like Andrew Dickman that got away with raping his ex girlfriend.
>>145695142What went wrong? Yeah yeah I get it "hateful fart cartoon" but given his resume he should've been able to find work somewhere, not even Netflix would take him?
>>145724470qrd?
>>145723410Kys, Craig is better than this.
>>145696597It wasn't politics, he got bad advice from a lawyer that should have known better and was previously trustworthy. The voice work cost a lot and only some of it could be used and he absolutely did not have the money to go and recast so many characters. It would have cost so much that it scuttled the project by itself.
>>145724406sounds like a lot of cope
>>145723410Kickstarter is like sleeping on the floor of a hotel room. It's a fine option if you're 20 and you're short on funds, but there's a certain point in your life that it's not really an option unless it's a dire emergency. If you suddenly needed to shelter in place due to an emergency and all rooms were booked up, sure, sleeping on the floor of a hotel room is something someone could do at any age. And if you were down to your last dollar and were about to be evicted, sure, maybe a crowdfund is something to look into. At some point in your life, the sacrifices you'd need to make to do those sorts of things are no longer worthwhile. At 20, sleeping on the floor just so you can go on a roadtrip is totally worth it. At 40+, most people have already had those fun experiences so while going on a trip with your friends might be fun, most would rather skip the road trip if it meant dealing with back pain. Same thing with kickstarter. If you've never made a show before, you'd be willing to do the fucking insane hustle that is running a successful crowdfund campaign and still essentially working for less than minimum wage. Craig is already a legendary showrunner with several shows on mainstream networks. While I'm sure he'd love to have some of his original ideas made, he's got a family to take care of and would probably rather do whatever the networks WILL pick up as opposed to having to constantly shill a campaign, manufacture and send rewards, and beg for money that won't be enough while taking a severe paycut, losing insurance, and getting zero money on the back-end because it's streaming for free on youtube.
>>145724633>qrd?Seems like it's pretty self-explanatory. Andrew Dickman raped his ex girlfriend and got away with it.
>>145725290POST PROOF FAGGOT!
>>1457253101) I'm not saying he did it. I'm just giving you the obvious quick run down that could have easily been ascertained from the statement you were asking about. 2) Where the fuck do you think you are?
>>145725348Kys faggot, imagine slandering some artist because your life is devoid of meaning
>>145725361you mean like the multiple threads like this? https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/145684857/
>>145695142Good, he ruined his own show.
>>145695142Does he have Eris drawings?
>>145695243Fuck jesus, christian genocide fucking when?
>>145724470Dickman was also so smug that Lindsay wouldn't be divorcing Kyle and that she's a pedo as bad as him, then it turns out she did file for divorce.
>>145695243You are on 4chan. Are you really going to start preaching about god?
>>145725859Kys
>>145725808Longinus became Christian.
>>145725982Who?
>>145726313That's a picture of Longinus.
>>145725859That's what they do now (at least until November). It's all disingenuous bullshit meant to sway public opinion.
>>145726352Post it
>>145725282What year do you think it is? Kickstarter is just promotion and pre-orders today, it's not going to be the sole source of funds unless it's some sort of physical good like a pen or bag, and even then it oftentimes isn't.
>>145726912Stop lying
>>145726912What about my post made you think I was implying that Kickstarter was the sole source of funds? I've worked on indie productions, I know how it goes. You raise like $100k and everyone on /co/ bitches about how it shouldn't cost that much. Meanwhile after kickstarter takes their cut, taxes, and money goes to designing/producing/shipping all the rewards, you're left with far less than you raised (which still wasn't enough), so you try to scrape together the rest through patreon and merch sales (and /co/tards will bitch about it the whole way). I'm well aware of how much funding indie animation fucking sucks and can completely get why you wouldn't want to go that route if you're used to networks footing the bill. Working on mainstream productions is WAAAAAY better. It's not even fucking close.
I miss edgy cartoons.
All he has to do is draw porn of Eris and post on Patreon, it's that simple.
>>145727726So true
>>145695142He’ll get over it.
>>145696098the starving artist is a stereotype because so many artists have too big of an ego to compromise their lifestyle to make a decent living. They refuse to live the way a 9-5 worker does
>>145728667Not really, Seth is rich.
I miss Grim & Evil artstyle
>>145707177Svenkino
>>145727152>I've worked on indie productionsYou don’t have to name names, but do you have any interesting stories?
>>145729713John K bad
>>145729713No
HATEFUL
When he couldn't finish Dead Meat after spending so much time and money trying to get it together. He apologized and gave his Kickstarter backers the Dead Meat script, and an option to get a refund. Use Base64 to decode the link.aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWdhLm56L2ZpbGUvZ0FobEZMaFEjWERxTTEzYXZqaEs3VWdCOHp2Vjh4SFFrRHNKRWIySzcyREpOeGRRZFBmawoK
FART
>>145728667>so many artists have too big of an ego to compromise their lifestyle to make a decent living. They refuse to live the way a 9-5 worker doesUm...I don't know what artists you know but as someone who has traveled heavily in those circles I can tell you that this is very much not the case. There are a handful of trust fund bohemians and you can sniff them out immediately, but most people are doing what they can with the little they have and tend to need to be able to DIY an awful lot. I've lived in communes with way too many people in a loft apartment, have seen friends dumpster diving for food (freegans), and most of the artists I know have salvaged a large portion of their furniture from the street on trash day. They don't go out to restaurants unless they also work there and can get most of their check comped by friends/coworkers, cook everything from scratch to save cash, and repair shit they buy until it's absolutely insane to keep it anymore. The 'artists' you describe seems to be the stereotype from media, but the artists I know either have a 9-5 on top of their art gig, they're living well below the 9-5 standard of living, or a handful have managed to scrape their way to a position where they can actually make a livable wage from their creative work alone, but they're not living a lavish lifestyle by any means.
CARTOON
atoms has autims
>>145695142I hope that Max does Well with Atoms again...
>>145730619Ok
>>145729713No hot gossip. I've been lucky to be on very professionally run independent productions. It's like any typical creative job. Everyone gets assignments, there are production deadlines set in place, and regular check-ins to make sure everyone is on target. There's a formal hierarchy and you have leads that oversee your work so the showrunner/creator doesn't have to micromanage everything. I've never personally seen any drama regarding who answers to who and I've also never seen someone put in a lead position who had their ability questioned. On every project I've worked on, opinions from other crew members are considered and often encouraged, but the lead makes the final call and people tend to just fall in line and get their work in. People joke around when appropriate, but everything is very professional and you'd conduct yourself in the same way you would in an office. Avoid topics like religion or politics, don't use crass language, don't make dirty jokes...If you skirt those rules, you'd better be absolutely sure the people you're talking with are actually close friends of yours and not just colleagues, but it's generally better to just avoid that altogether. Regardless of how much you're getting paid (or even IF you're getting paid), if this is something you're pursuing professionally, you need to treat each gig like a real job. It's likely that the next gig you get will be because someone you worked with on a past production recognized your skills, knows your easy to work with, so they'll give you a recommendation.A lot of people on /co/ like to make it seem like working on these productions is just a bunch of friends hanging out and fucking around but the animations that *actually* get completed tend to be more regimented. It's a lot of work and there's almost never enough money. Indie animation is having a moment and I'm glad to be able to be a part of it, but unless the financial model can be tweaked, it's not the way the of the future.
Fredburger killed his reputation.
>>145730879YES!
>>145695142>photocopyThis shit has no value
>>145731110Why?
>>145731148It's not the original storyboard. In any form of art the original copy is always more valuable.
>>145695142He suck
>>145731162Lol, he’s a hack.
It sure is great growing up to see my heroes not fall into obscurity but straight up poverty.Fuck this world
>>145731277Kys
Billy and Mandy outlived all these shows>Time Squad>Jimmy Neutron>Drawn Together>Kim Possible>Dave the Barbarian>Buzz on Maggie>American Dragon>Brandy and Mr. Whiskers>Mucha Lucha>Ozzy and Drix>Duck Dodgers>What's New Scooby Doo>Megas XLR>Puffy AmiYumi>Squirrel Boy>Camp Lazlo>Gym Partner>Class of 3000>Catscratch>The X's>Teen Titans>The Batman>Lil' Bush>Minoriteam>Adult Party Cartoon>Gary the Rat>StriprellaAnd many, many more. It was a very successful show, so to see CN dismissing it and its creator is very disgusting. Atoms deserves better.
Dead thread, kill yourself.
>>145732257NO DIE!
>>145695142He deserves better
