Why did they not catch on?
>>145715383They can't all be Harley Quinn.
>>145715383Why when you have her?
>>145715383They came at a nebulous time in the riddler's career where writers couldn't decide if he was cool villain or a silly pathetic one.
>>145715383>>145715412Maybe the Riddler doesn't look good with tits.
because the riddler gives strong incel vibes and hot female sidekicks don't fit with that
>>145715393I think they actually predate Harley.
>>145715463The post-Y2K era of DC was weird in general, especially for Batman and Superman.
>>145715494I think my biggest dislike of Dixon's time on Batman is the big Jock vs unpopulat Nerd vibe.
>>145715383Riddler himself is struggling to find his place in post campy Batmanwhy would his henchgirls fare any better?
>>145715514They were from the 90s though, and written off by Hush.
>>145715463The Riddler is based and should always be treated as if he is based. I feel like instead of typecasting Riddler as one type of thing, he should be a threat in the sense that he can be many things. Sometimes he could be a gentleman thief, other times he could be an informant, sometimes a detective, etc. He's as valuable of an ally as he is annoying of an enemy. I feel like that kind of malleability would make Riddler a lot more fun.
>>145715536I feel like Riddler was doing pretty well until The Batman and Arkham Knight. B:TAS, Arkham Asylum + City, Gotham, and Detective Edward Nygma were all pretty good.
>>145715573I feel like the Arkham games in general treated him pretty poorly. His look, voice, and aesthetic are all top notch in City, but every game just has the characters dunk on him non-stop and treat him like a moron aside from Origins. Granted, Knight did it the worst.
>>145715568Back then being based wasn't even invented yet. Frank Gorshin making bad puns and laughing like a madman was seen as uncool even though we can all admit that based as fuck.
>>145715701>Frank Gorshin making bad puns and laughing like a madman was seen as uncool even though we can all admit that based as fuck.what? No, he was easily the most beloved thing from that show even in the era people rolled their eyes at the show after Batman 89.
>>145715494Weren’t they lesbians anyway? They just like hanging out with Riddler and committing crimes with him.
>>145715747>he was easily the most beloved thing from that show even in the era people rolled their eyes at the show after Batman 89.You only have to see how comic book writers are treating the riddler to know that's not true.
>>145715766I think that's just fan interpreting things because there's no definite answer.
>>145715783The thing is that's not necessarily exclusive. Gorshin Riddler still ultimately got dunked on in every episodeDixon loves the Riddler but he still had most of his Riddler stories with the Riddler as sort of a pathetic nerd..because that's just the character's lot in life as a villain.
>>145715800They got more overt about it as time went on. The tribal looking tats they have here were big in the lesbian scene in the late 90's/2000's
>>145715383Did they ever have any tv appearance?I don't recall them in BTAS and for sure the 60s show was all male goons.I recall a female assistant from the recent Batman Audio Logs.
>>145715937It's funny you mention that because this is the literal example of what I meant by fan interpretations.>they have these type of tattoos ergo lesbians
>>145715937>Riddler Kramering into the scenekek
>>145715393stupid and jewish?
>>145715383riddler never needed named henchmen
>>145715383Chuck Dixon OC's.He no longer works for DC.
>>145716002>>they have these type of tattoos ergo lesbiansIt's more like an intentional easter egg by the artist
>>145715383ooooh who are they
>>145715383How about Sugar and Spice?
>>145715476Why is riddler a pedo
>>145716002Look on her back in panel two, that's OVERT
>>145718102They're just good friends anonNo one in comics liked lesbianisms before the wokes.
145718113>No one in comics liked lesbianisms before the wokes.>>/pol/Go back, tourist
>>145718210>>145718210he was being sarcastic idiot
>>145715383they look really old
>>145715536This kind of reminds me of an episode where Joker trying to think of what to do. Going through ideas he says "no, too ridler" I always find it funny what defines a joker crime to a riddler crime.
>>145718513Two women recently divorced Looking for jobsSee ad for hench womenMeanwhile Riddler tries and hosts talent show. Either confuses the girls with riddles they get mad and leave, or the girls themselves think they can do better than riddler. Two lady show upRiddler gives them a job
>>145717799See THEY should totally catch on. Eddie on the other hand naturally alienates everyonee
>>145717799I really like them, but Harvey doesn't look like the kind of guy who date many women at the same time. I suppose they could make Two-Face a womaniser while Harvey is a man still attached to his ex-wife. That could make for some tension between the two.
>>145715383The writers didn't push these two as much as they did Harly Quinn. To be honest, they didn't push Superman comics as hard/bad as they did Harly Quinn.
>>145715383Because they were attached to a shitty character like The Riddler.
>>145715383is that ... Uma Thurman and Bea Arthurt?
>>1457153831. They never actually did much2. They never had any personality beyond being hot henchwomen3. They added nothing to the Riddler's character or his plot value as a villain4. The lame and gay lesbian undertones such as seen in >>145715937 (as opposed to hot bisexual "like dick the most but can happily get it on with each other" undertones)5. The Riddler is so evidently non-sexual as a character that him having sexy henchwomen simply doesn't seem to fit (the man's obsessed with puzzles, Batman, and being the smartest — pussy is clearly incredibly low on his list of priorities, if it's even on there at all)
>>145718056Those are awful jokes holy fuck.
>>145719128I don't see the riddler as non-sexual.
>>145719876He's the Rizzler
>>145719876He's only attracted to puzzles and deathtraps. He's not a man who has time for sex, though that doesn't make him asexual in a gay tumblr/twitter way. He simply just doesn't bother.The Joker fucks, Two-Face fucks, Bane fucks, Catwoman DEFINITELY fucks, Mr Freeze used to fuck, Ra's al Ghoul has fucked at least twice and probably still does, the Mad Hatter tries to fuck and is justifiably arrested for it — the Riddler is one of the few major Batman villains who quite plainly just doesn't fuck. He doesn't carry that energy. Cluemaster fucks more than the Riddler.
>>145720324Riddler could fuck if he wants and that's how he attracts women who want him to want to fuck them
>>145715383Because the Riddler is meant to be a socially maladjusted asshole who commits crimes solely for his own ego. Having hot women as recurring henchmen kinda flies in the face of all that.
>>145715494you're delusional
>>145720324You seem to have thought this through so I gotta ask, what other batman villains do you think don't fuck?Scarecrow? Killer Croc? Magpie? Maxie Zeus? Condiment King? Kite-Man? I unironically wanna know who's not getting lucky in Arkham/Blackgate
>>145721453Not him but>ScarecrowDoesn't fuck but could, just doesn't care>CrocCan't fuck often but wants to>MagpieBPD, gets fuck but shouldn't >Maxie ZeusFucks often and frequently >Condiment KingGets a pity fuck now and then>Kite-ManGets laid but nobody who's a real catch
>>145720682Yeah, I just don't think of Riddler as a guy who keeps any permanent people, male or female. He'll put together teams to execute his plans and puzzles but otherwise doesn't want to maintain a gang.
>>145720682>Having hot women as recurring henchmen kinda flies in the face of all thatWhy?
>>145715383Someone made a video on the same subject.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwMVA_J1i9ETo answer your question, I blame their absense in outside adaptions. They, along with >>145715412 and >>145715476, will have their spotlight someday.
>>145720324I liked the one-off where he was instantly smitten with a random woman and he became obsessed with trying to win her over. He was doing shit like paying off all her student loans, stealing famous paintings around the world for her to curate at her museum job, and the whole time she's mortified that she keeps inserting himself into her life. She thinks he's trying to create a situation where she "owes him" and doesn't understand what his end goal is. Finally, she caves and says she loves him and he instantly loses interest because he "figured out the puzzle" and burns her house down.
>>145715621Isn't the point of it all that he gets bullied like a nerd
>>145721866>and burns her house down.That escalated.
>>145722159I actually revisited the comic after making my post because it had been years since I last read it. A couple of things to change to my post:1. I had totally forgotten the whole story was being told as a tale by Joker, so he's possibly making the whole thing up.2. He shoots her dad (whom he befriended earlier to try and get close to her) and slashes the paintings, he doesn't burn her house down.3. The only reason she agreed to "fall in love" with Riddler was because Riddler had reformed his whole life and became a productive member to society in order to win over the girl. An unknown villain (Joker kept changing it to various rogues) needed Riddler's help so he wanted to end the charade and threatened to shoot the girl's father if she didn't go out with Riddler already. Comic is "Joker's Asylum II: The Riddler" if anyone is curious.
>>145720682chicks dig big brains
>>145722250>Joker's AsylumKino series doing quick one shots on villains
>>145721839The Riddler Family:>The Riddler: neurotic, narcissitic, thinks he's smarter than everyone and will prove it with crime. Frequently confuses an overcomplicated plan for a smart plan.>Quiz: Riddler's on-again/off-again spouse. Thinks she's vital to Eddie's success despite most of Eddie's successes happening when she's skipped town. Looks 13 despite being 40 and unlike Baby Doll kinda digs it.>Enigma: daughter of the Riddler and Quiz. Autistic in the screaming outloud because of off-color Thomas the Tank Engine fanart kind of way despite her parents telling everyone she's autistic in the savant kind of way. Admittedly really good at organizing things in a row by size.>Query and Echo: married pair of petty crooks and "former" sex workers that are Eddie's go-to goons. Only women in his life that can tolerate him 24/7. Constantly talk about striking out on their own, constantly end up robbing johns in cheap motel rooms before crawling back.
>>145718894The Riddler is NOT shitty
>>145721638I feel like kite man should have just terrible luck on tinder like he does hook up but it’s always a train wreck
>>145721789Usually people that have social issues don’t kill it with the ladies unless they’re super rich
>>145717799What if they used to be Query & Echo, just recast for new roles.
>>145715800
>>145715383They were created by Chuck Dixon, and just about the only thing DC knows how to do with Dixon creations is kill them as canon fodder.Shame, I always liked them. There's something charming about the idea that Nygma struggled with his life of crime until he GOT MUGGED by a pair of batshit crazy lesbians that he IMMEDIATELY befriended. Once he had a couple of kindred souls on his side it all started coming together.
>>145716002That's a page featuring two women sharing a bed, and one of them has a labrys tattoo. Those are lesbians, anon.
They tried to differentiate them fron Harley by having them fucking hate the Riddler and be in it for the money, but there's not much mileage you can get from that dynamic. They show up, they fight Batman, they bail because they don't believe in anything.Harley is more interesting because she can run the gamut. She can be a tragedy, a comedy, a romance, a redemption tale. Echo and Query never got that deep a characterization.
>>145721638Croc could definitely get laid. Women love bestiality.
>>145723769>They tried to differentiate them fron Harley by having them fucking hate the RiddlerThat was very much not the dynamic during O'Neil's tenure as editor. I can't speak to anything recent, but they were his friends. Honestly Nygma having a couple of lesbian friends makes perfect sense.
>>145715383Why would they? You being horny is not an answer.
>>145715568>Riddler can be whatever No, he can’t. In order for a character to be usable you need some kind of a central consistent theme and driving direction around which writers can make stories. If he’s always changing you’re diluting the character until he’s reduced to nothing and nobody wants to use him because they can’t figure out what the character is good for. You need to define them in a way that works and stick to it. That is how you create and maintain an iconic character. That is what their appeal is.Look at Two-Face. He keeps struggling as a character now because the duality gimmick is so corny and childish from a modern perspective that you can’t just write stories around him kidnapping twins for ransom or stealing duplicate items. And nothing they’ve tried to do with the character in the past 30 years hasn’t really managed to have lasting impact.Mad Hatter is a C-list supporting character you primarily use as a mind control tool because it’s a good gimmick but also one that is too repetitive to be used often with him as a primary villain. You also have a trouble that it’s hard to really define his character in a way where he has real personality and you don’t want to go down the pedo route. So the best you can do is make him a secondary character for other people to use, since his mind control gimmick still has certain utility.Killer Croc used to struggle a lot in the 90s/00s because they had botched all follow ups to his mastermind crime boss who is also a physically threat debut. But writers then leaned on him being a crocodile man and amped up it by making him a cannibal and physically very powerful bruiser who lives in the sewers, and that is strong enough gimmick that writers can find ways to use him a lot and occasionally even give him human moments and compelling character beats, like when Lobdell had the ingenious idea to make him a sort of unofficial addiction sponsor for Roy Harper.
>>145717799Harvey having molls for both sides is actually something that should be done in the comics. It’s idiotic they haven’t done that, but I get it because they’re background characters and you need first to do the kind of stories where there’s room to show off Sugar & Spice (or whatever original take on the concept) and then find a way to keep using them consistently enough that they’re considered part of the overall package.The most interesting thing would be the question is that how the “good” moll would work. Is she completely innocent, is she someone trying to always make Harvey go straight or be a voice of reason, is she a criminal too but leans on being less violent, is she someone Harvey kidnapped and now she’s got Stockholm syndrome, maybe she’s someone whom Harvey has a weird distant on/off relationship a Batman/Catwoman and is her defence lawyer who got romantically involved with Harvey and now there’s a lot of ethical issues with the relationship, etc. It’s a treasure trove for possibilities but you need long form storytelling and time to explore these things. It can’t be done in just one debut story. And Harvey doesn’t get that type of focus very often.
>>145718731>but Harvey doesn't look like the kind of guy who date many women at the same timeSee, this is actually an opportunity to explore the Harvey/Two-Face duality with some depth. Two-Face would be all “gimme daddy some sugar” with his gal, representing his subconscious carnal desires. She’s like a mistress. Harvey meanwhile would be more reserved and his relationship with a moll would be more about him seeking moral support and comfort and safety to the chaotic and violent life he lives in. He could still have a physical/romantic relationship ultimately with the “good moll” but it would be more about her representing a supportive (common law) wife to a politician type of deal. Nice clothes and pearl necklaces, giving confidence boost when her man needs it, work as a sounding board and counsel, etc. That’s how you have a good contrast and playing on the duality gimmick. It would also be cool if you had the woman not fight each other (or fight fir control/favourite status) and instead work together in agreement that they’re meant to support Harvey’s conflicting two sides. They would want their alignment to naturally be the decisive one but ultimately they’re there for him to be successful. Or you could make Spice be an exploitative trying to make Harvey do things that benefit for etc but I think that’s too boring. You could maybe do that as an example of an earlier Spice who got killed when it backfired, etc.
>>145723923>Killer Croc used to struggle a lot in the 90s/00s because they had botched all follow ups to his mastermind crime boss who is also a physically threat debut. But writers then leaned on him being a crocodile man and amped up it by making him a cannibal and physically very powerful bruiser who lives in the sewers, and that is strong enough gimmick that writers can find ways to use him a lot and occasionally even give him human moments and compelling character beats, like when Lobdell had the ingenious idea to make him a sort of unofficial addiction sponsor for Roy Harper.>Loeb's story that Croc was DE-EVOLVING was good, actuallyGo back to bed, Jeph.
>>145724194He wasn't the first. Doug Moench and Kelly Jones did a two parter that was all about him being an animal and 'heeding the call of the swamp' or whatever in like '95. Grant Morrison portrayed him as a preverbal brute, a symbolic dragon for Bruce to slay.
>>145724194That’s not what I said. I could have mentioned Loeb’s shit was the wrong way to do it because it went overboard. But it doesn’t change the overall fact that Croc being a cannibal and a monstrous brawler is a niche that works well for him after having tons of not great stories where he’s bland as fuck because nobody knew what to do with him. It also makes him a character writers like to use and find ways to put in stories more. It’s only a question of where you go with that makes or breaks the gimmick. Loeb’s crocodile tail man devolving was terrible. Several other writers making him more nuanced while maintaining the monster angle meanwhile works, as long as you don’t make him a dumb brute.
>>145724219Anon they haven't turned him into a "monstrous brawler" they've turned him into a dude that FOR SOME RAISIN is part dinosaur or some shit. It's dogshit writing and the idea that it's better than any Two-Face story "in the last 30 years" is laughable. And I don't even like Two-Face much.
>>145715383Ridler never struck me as a "henchman" kind of villain anyways.
>>145724387They dropped that shit about Croc over a decade ago. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
>>145724387>And I don't even like Two-Face much.Get a load of this guy
Bump?
>>145715383Too hot.
>>145715383>fishnets
>>145724432I agree. He is too autistic.
>>145724387I'm saying it's a development that's been in the works since 1989, anon.If you want, there's a Chuck Dixon story in Robin around 98 I think where he attempts to bring back the tactical gangster Croc.
Sexy female henchwomen need to make a comeback in general.
>>145726327Bueno could canonically get away with assaulting Query and Echo, because he's a hero and they're villains.
>>145727897Who are they?
>>145727897>sexy henchwomen>in [current year]
>>145717799God Drew Barrymore from that time was hot...
>>145730420I still can't believe this is the same girl from E.T.
>>145715383Because DC is run by morons.
>>145730104The ones on the left are the Kabuki twins from The Batman and the other 3 are Jay, Lark and Raven from BTAS.
was year of the villain canon? if so anyone knows what riddler did after his one-shot
>>145715383no gimmick>should have been dumb as bricks and strong>call everyone not the Riddler "dummies"its that simple
>>145733743Probably had a wank
>>145715383Because Riddler works as an incel, not a boss.
>>145732852
>>145715383Riddler is usually portrayed as autistic and anti-social.
>>145716002dumbass
>>145715383What is this old hags riddlers?
>>145732852I miss the twins.
>>145733743Unless he showed up behorehand, >>145728152
>>145715476Uhh how old?
>>145721638My headcanon is that croc loves vanilla and cuddles
>>145715383hags
>>145738380sags
