[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/co/ - Comics & Cartoons


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.


[Advertise on 4chan]


File: Gwen_Stacy.png (280 KB, 384x566)
280 KB
280 KB PNG
Is there anything to this character other than "she, like, died, you know"?
>>
This thread will delve into absolute shit, I guarantee it
>>
>>146166037
Maybe, but seriously, she doesn't seem to have anything resembling a consistent personality across her media appearance, and the only thing she seems to be remembered for is croaking so people primarily just wonder about if and how she'll die this time.
>>
>>146166025
Not really.
Early Ditko Gwen (i.e., the handful of college issues he worked on before he left) was very prim and prissy and was annoyed that Peter was seemingly immune to her charms because he was too occupied worrying about Aunt May dying and Doc Ock on the loose
Then Romita comes aboard and Gwen near-instantly becomes [GIRLFRIEND]. She doesn't do anything of note beyond looking pretty and being there for about 50 issues. Then her dad gets killed in a fight between Ock and Spidey, so she gets the brand new super duper interesting character trait of hating Spider-Man's webbed guts. Then she just kind of does that until she gets thrown off a bridge.

Emma Stone's portrayal in the TASM movies is genuinely the most character that Gwen has EVER had, and half of that is solely down to the chemistry Stone has with Andrew Garfield rather than any actual personality in the writing.
>>
>>146166025
Nope.
It's a wonder why she even has so many fans in editorial and a dedicated schizo.
>>
>>146166025
Aw sweet, a schizo thread
>>
>>146166360
No, it's okay. We're here to bury Gwen Stacy, not to praise her.
>>
>>146166360
Fuck off, Lenny.
>>
>>146166025
She's the original Tsundere.
>>
Gwen is complicated for me when she was boss bitch was fine but later they downplayed that and started cramming her into the adventures. I always felt that Spidey girlfriends brought the stories down. Later spiderman like stories like Static Shock fixed that by making them be more than the nagging girlfriend. Frieda and Joe (Mad Men) >>>> Any spidey girlfriend
>>
File: gwrem.jpg (273 KB, 700x1076)
273 KB
273 KB JPG
Gwen Stacy hate is as forced as Gwen Stacy love

For some reason I feel like it's mostly done by casuals who never read a Spider-Man comic book in their lives, but sure love "Gwen Stacy but generic girlboss Spider-Man" because she has a coomer costume and appears in popular media that thankfully doesn't require reading, or who never complain about Uncle Ben being boring for being the "he, like, died, you know" character
>she was the popular girl (Stacy if you will) that mellowed out for the protagonist (like Pacifica and Dipper)
>she hated Spider-Man but was so devoted to Peter to the point she was going to forgive Spider-Man when she realized he might be Peter
>she has attainable girl appeal whereas MJ being a supermodel is kind of a power fantasy (and every adaptation acknowledges it by making her something else)
>her and Peter were each other's firsts whereas MJ has a long dating history before and after Peter
>she has the better adaptations by far being merged with Black Cat in '94, being cool in the Ultimate comics, being a bitchy nerd in Spectacular, and being the best on-screen Spider-Man romance in the ASM movies
>in comparison MJ has been ruined beyond recognition or salvation in ASM comics, was okay in '94, was bland in the Ultimate comics, was good in Spectacular, and was awful in the Raimi and the MCU movies
All the usual complaints are just the consequence of her being a love interest character at the time (60 years ago) and being killed off before she could be developed further, which is like watching an old sitcom and not finding it funny or original without realizing that's because all the sitcoms that came afterwards built on those foundations
>>
>>146166507
>I feel like it's mostly done by casuals who never read a Spider-Man comic book in their lives
>her and Peter were each other's firsts
Projecting much?
>>
>>146166540
>her and Peter were each other's firsts
KEK
>>
>>146166507
>she was going to forgive Spider-Man when she realized he might be Peter
This is wishful thinking cope. She never stopped hating Spider-Man.
>>
>>146166025
She was the tragic love interest, whom hated Spider-man from the bottom of her earth. Maybe if she lived she would have forgiven him, maybe not.
>>
>>146166540
>>146166567
I think anon means the notion of "first true love" or something, personally I always thought romance shit was the least important aspect of a Spider-Man storyline. Feels like the character is limited by lack of imagination even for a comic book where you only need to punch a bad guy to save the day. Downplaying Peter's personal Life problems like a job or passion for science etc while simultaneously focusing too much on the romance aspect never stuck with me. Off topic ranting but I just felt like typing. Sorry.
>>
>>146166609
I think it feels more "honest" for it to be there. After all, one of the points of Peter is that he had to face typical teenager problems that over the years the comics denied him any progress and decided he must continue to be a manchild is another thing. Though it's hard to do romance tends to become a cancer that overtakes the story. Which I think is why most battle mangas shy away from giving it any focus despite the MCs usually being essentially teenage superheroes.
>>
>>146166647
Ok bare with me and Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the stale stereotypical teen-age archetype overdone?. I mean, I understand your point but why do we stick to one model and act like that's the definitive teenage example. You said it yourself manga has variety and the writers know their fans vary, which is why you can have one manga solely focused on teenage love or one big pure action rollercoaster. With comics it feels like if you know one teenage superhero then you know them all. Like, Okay I'll admit I'm a hxh fan and the Reason I love Gon so much is because he breaks the mold of a typical shonen protagonist, his moral compass is extremely grey despite the superficial moral compass he gives off. He has no problem sparing the wretched or befriending them for his own self interest while having no problem with innocent bystanders becoming collateral damage for a greater purpose he deems acceptable. I know he's a child but there's children who act just like out of sheer ignorance because they're self absorbed and when you look at other children in comics and manga there's not much variety or deviation from the pure of heart archetype that's done to death.

Idk how to put it into words or express but I feel like no one is really trying to "experiment" anymore and if they do it's probably gonna be with another clone who'll only end up copying Peter's Life and struggle and everything in between. Ultimate Spider-Man is doing great in terms of sales and reception but a grown up family man is the natural progression that Peter's story was always meant to be and if the standards are so low for such a story that the anticipated normalcy is viewed as exceptional then that tells me more about the people/fans who enjoy it than the writers themselves. And I can't help but feel like it's the fans fault the story goes nowhere anymore.
>>
>>146166385
Friends, Readers, /co/untrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Gwen, not to praise her.
The evil that women do lives after them;
The good is oft fridged with their thighboots;
So let it be with Gwen. The noble OP
Hath told you Gwen was dull:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Gwen answer’d it.
Here, under leave of OP and the rest–
For OP is an honourable anon;
So are they all, all honourable anons–
Come I to post in Gwen's thread.
She was my waifu, faithful and just to me:
But OP says she was dull;
And OP is an honourable anon.
She hath supported Sam Bullit's run in New York
Whose racism did the DA's election lose:
Did this in Gwen seem dull?
When that the Captain have died, Gwen hath raged:
Dullness should be made of squarer stuff:
Yet OP says she was dull;
And OP is an honourable anon.
You all did see that in Sins Past
Norman once presented her a goblinly bull,
Which she did once accept: was this dullness?
Yet OP says she was dull;
And, sure, he is an honourable anon.
I post not to disprove what OP posted,
But here I am to post what I do know.
You all did love her once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then, to waifufag for her?
O judgment! thou art fled to oppressive outcasts,
And anons have lost their reason. Bear with me;
My heart is on the bridge there with Gwen,
And I must pause till it snaps back to me.
>>
>>146166025
She hooked up with her black football star boyfriend before Peter.
>>
>>146166842
>People have convinced themselves that Gon is a good character
He isn't a good character
>>
She's blonde and cute and kinda bitchy. As someone born in the nineties, I see Gwen as untapped potential. What would her relationship with Peter be like if she wasn't abruptly bridged (retarded retcons notwithstanding)?

MJ is still the default Spider-Man love interest for me, but Gwen is the wistful "what-if", while Felicia is the cheeky "what-if". Basically, it's just fun to speculate.
Obviously, adaptations like Spectacular and TASM played a massive role for a latecomer like me who missed out on practically everything.
>>
>>146166025
Whatever character she had is memoryholed in place of the "cool" punk girl from the Spider-Verse.
>>
>>146166025
She was Peter's first (real) love, people tend to look back fondly on those after a certain age, which is why so many writers love Gwen. Also, she's the one he failed the most, so of course he can't forget her. Guilt is a core part of his motivation.

Also, I feel like it's unfair to compare her to MJ because Mary-Jane had a lot more time for character development, which really started after Gwen died. Before that she was just a party slut (seriously, she was a club dancer; they take miles of dick).
>>
>>146166540
As it was written chronologically ASM implied Peter and Gwen never had a serious relationship before each other, whereas MJ was a party girl with everything that brought with it, such as the relationship with not-Batman who I'm sure was only in it for the makeout sessions, everything after that was retcons

>>146166567
Now let's see what giving a tumble meant in the 1960s
>give (or get) a tumble
>American English
>Informal
>to give (or get) some favorable or affectionate notice, attention, etc.
>Webster’s New World College Dictionary

>>146166591
The old What If Gwen Stacy Survived comic confirms that was her characterization
>>
>>146167299
>The old What If Gwen Stacy Survived comic confirms that was her characterization
Crap comic written by a Gwenfag that whitewashed Peter's actions. He was responsible for Captain Stacy's death, that's indisputable. In that comic he put all the blame on Doc Ock despite the fact that in the original issue he took full responsibility for what he did at the end.
>>
>>146166567
60s slang, my guy. She means Peter isn't going gaga for her like other dudes.
>>
>>146166025
Her death was because the writers found her boring and dull, as did many readers. If she had just broken up with him and left town instead of dying, I can bet you she would be remembered as a kinda shitty girlfriend instead of an ultra-martyr.

People love Spider-Gwen or adaptations like her Spectacular version, but those have shitall to do with her personality-wise. She's a character a hundred time popular in her death than she ever was alive.
>>
I like how they have bury Betty Brant so that Gwen can be his one true love.
>>
>>146166939
When did I say he's "good". I never said that you're Just putting words into my mouth and creating preconceived notions of not Only the character I'm refering to but also my own perception and mindset. I don't have to appreciate something because it's universally liked or not.
>>
>>146167493
I'm a bit disappointed she never found out his identity so she could tell him to fuck off with his lies. But that puts Marvel in an awkward situation, because Mr. Power and Responsibility won't and can't actually turn himself in for second-degree-murder/manslaughter so they just ignore it.
>>146167509
Betty was just high school puppy love, playing the field. She started dating Ned Leeds while dating Peter because she was seething over how he wouldn't tell Liz Allan to fuck off. Then they ended up fucking while she was separated but not yet divorced from Ned and Marvel also wants to ignore that awkwardness.
>>
>>146167509
Betty was an elementary school tier relationship
>>
>>146167595
>Then they ended up fucking while she was separated but not yet divorced from Ned and Marvel also wants to ignore that awkwardness.
I firmly believe Peter and Betty should be in the friends-with-benefits camp
>>
>>146167380
>>146167595
Peter blaming himself =/= Peter actually being responsible, he blames himself for a lot of things, like Uncle Ben's death
>>
File: 1618260776588.jpg (1.65 MB, 1043x1500)
1.65 MB
1.65 MB JPG
>>146166025
She was a slut
>>
>>146167678
see >>146167299
>>
>>146166842
The point of making a kid or teenage superhero is making him relatable for kids and teenagers is the logic, I suppose. And this is simply a major concern during the tumultous period of adolescence, so the character will feel off without any relationship crap. Assuming the boys are the target, the younger the demographic is, the less important the aspect will be as 7 years olds won't care since girls have cooties.
>>
>>146167676
Ock lost control of his tentacles because of something he deliberately did to him right in the middle of the city. Peter's morally and legally responsible for what happened as a result of that.
>>
>>146166025
She fucked Norman Osborn behind Peter's back
>inb4 "it was retconned to be Mysterio!"
The damage is already done, they took too long to rectify it and even then it's by a different writer and years after the worst retcon of all that caused most readers to stop reading. It's going to be associated with her forever just like how Joker will always be a rape victim thanks to an AU movie sequel.
>>
>>146167762
Tell that to Gwenschizo.
>>
>>146167637
I like this idea
>>
>>146167762
The retcon is as relevant to Sins Past as SP is relevant to OG Gwen. Which is not much.
>>
>>146166025
She has a thing for older men. Much older
>>
>>146166609
Peter'e passion for le science has always been obnoxious to me anyways. I'd rather see him struggle with human relationship issues and getting places on time than to be le supergenius nerderific faggot know-it-all like he's always been written. Ultimate had the best balance, which Raimi took from for his Peter's characterization. Whereas, Peter only valued science for the hobby and wasn't a genius. He just had a high IQ and passing interests in many various things, but was overall still just a guy. Raimi even did us the service of removing the caviat of the dumbest possible aspect of his character: le web-shooters (something even Bendis couldn't humanize).
>>
>>146167740
He was acting in self-defense and trying to prevent a terrorist from causing more damage to civilians
>>
>>146167762
>>146167912
Sins Past is just too retarded to take seriously, that's all. There are things about established characters that are just too retarded to even consider. For example, One More Day. According to official Marvel canon, Peter canonically sold his marriage with MJ to the devil in exchange for his geriatric aunt's survival from a wound apparently nobody could heal. You think anyone with a brain is gonna take that shit into account when considering Peter Parker's character? Of course not, that would be retarded.
Same deal with Joker. Nobody is gonna actually take the Joker 2 rape incident into account when discussing his character, unless they're deliberately taking the piss. That would be retarded.

It's what happens when it comes to characters with decades of being written by a revolving door of different people from different eras.
>but in that storyline, th-
>I don't care.
It's that simple.
>>
>>146168141
Ock wasn't doing anything at that specific time. Spider-Man decided to chase him down on his own and Ock was laying in wait for him. When Speedball caused Nitro to blow up that school, Speedball was at fault. In reality, when cops kill innocent people in trying to apprehend a criminal, they're the ones who take the blame.
>>
>>146166899
Underappreciated post.
>>
>>146166842
>but I feel like no one is really trying to "experiment" anymore

I feel like this is the biggest problem with Marvel and DC. Whether because of investors and editorial demanding a project optimized to sell comics or because of the backlash from moral guardians on social media, no comics can truly be experimental or exploratory of moral precepts or personality. The real reason that young males prefer manga to comics is because in manga they're still allowed to explore masculinity without being deemed problematic for it.
>>
>>146166439
Aw sweet, a pussy.
>>
>>146168046
>Peter'e passion for le science has always been obnoxious to me anyways
I'd like to see an iteration of him as a gear head instead. Would still explain the webshooters and other shit, without making him look like a fucking nerd. Just a guy who likes building and fixing shit.
>>
>>146167493
>Her death was because the writers found her boring and dull
Then why not write her better?
>>
>>146168046
>Raimi even did us the service of removing the caviat of the dumbest possible aspect of his character: le web-shooters (something even Bendis couldn't humanize).
TASM had him steal the webs from Oscorp so paired with this >>146168601 and you got a non-nerd Spidey.
>>
>>146168618
Because, if memory serves (correct me if I'm wrong) the behind the scenes was simply that Conway wanted Peter definitively with MJ because he liked her better, but Stan Lee preferred Gwen so knew that just breaking them up wasn't good enough since Lee himself or another writer would probably just undo it and put Gwen back in the mix, so decided to kill her to achieve a "permanent" pathway to his preferred endgame.
So he waited until Stan Lee was busy and heading to a business trip or something to spring the idea of killing her so he'd just nod "yeah, ok, whatever is fine", then he killed her and allegedly when Stan found out it actually happened he was like "what the fuck did you do?" And that lead to the original Clone Saga because Stan said "you better find a way to bring her back".

It all sounds like internal shipping wars and nothing but.
>>
>>146166050
This

She was a mawkish non-entity who only got interesting when she died.
>>
>>146168714
>who only got interesting when she died.

Not really. Her death didn't make HER interesting, it was the fallout and how it affected others to make them interesting.
And I say this as someone that actually likes Gwen. Dying didn't do her any favors, it did Peter and the storyline favors.
>>
At least we can all still agree that Spider-Gwen is a fucking abysmal non-entity of a character.
>>
>>146166025
Stan Lee could only do "bitches be shopping" and "bitches be crying" and put all of the latter into Gwen. MJ could have also brought out her personality more but ironically Lee quickly wanted to phase out the love triangle and MJ despite that being his best dialogued female character.
>>
>>146166025
Yeah she fucks old men. Not just Norman, the clone of her that married a clone of her college professor. Sins Past is just staying true to her character.
>>
>>146168210
>this known terrorist was out and about in public with his deadly heavy weaponry but he wasn't doing anything so there was no need to act
>>
>>146168812
Shame about the suit, I like it. I think it would look good on Mayday.
>>
File: gwen romita.jpg (331 KB, 775x1235)
331 KB
331 KB JPG
>>146166507
I just feel like so many people these are obsessed with either a story's "end goal" or perhaps some form of structure that doesn't really apply to ongoing books. Gwen may not have done a lot but she was never really meant to. At least not the way people think characters need to nowadays. She was just someone who was important to Peter. One of the first girls he truly loved. An anchor to whatever remained of his normal life. She wasn't there to have her own huge narratives or ongoing plot lines. She was there to, as a supporting character, SUPPORT the character whose name is on the book. She gave Peter depth humanity and something to care about. And then she died. The hero didn't save the girl That's not supposed to happen. And that's why it was impactful and tragic. She was the pretty girl everyone took for granted to always be there and now she was gone forever.

Honestly on the subject, I feel like a lot readers these days really don't understand what it means for a supporting character to actually be. And I don't think they understand why super heroes even need non super hero supporting characters. They don't get why the secret identity and dual life is important. They don't get why it's important for heroes to have non powered people in their lives. They don't actually understand what a character should be or what makes them human. They think every character needs an elaborate purpose of their own. That everyone needs to be some web swinging badass who can fight for themselves. They don't understand humanity in fiction.
>>
File: Mayday 2.jpg (73 KB, 988x299)
73 KB
73 KB JPG
>>146169086
Her actual suit is a 1000 times better.
>>
File: Mexi-Gwen 2.jpg (342 KB, 1064x866)
342 KB
342 KB JPG
>>146166025
She has a fat ass in Mexico and actually got married to Peter there
>>
>>146169105
Based beaners not giving a shit.
>>
>>146168970
There was no need for Spider-Man to coat those deadly weapons in a chemical that would make them flail out of control right in the middle of a populated area.
>>
>>146169104
Well yeah, because it's just Ben's Sensational suit, AKA the best Spider-Man suit design ever made.
>>
>>146169171
The spider-gwen costume is a meme.
>>
>>146169428
>DUDE HOODS LMAO
>>
>>146169105
>actually got married to Peter there
That was just a dream Peter had.
>>
>>146166507
>For some reason I feel like it's mostly done by casuals who never read a Spider-Man comic book in their lives
It's soapfags "Betty and Veronica"-ing Gwen and MJ.
>>
>>146170393
Came here to say this
>>
I've seen OG Gwen get hate from mainstream audiences but none of them bitch about Spider-Gwen who is somehow 10x worse which really exposes the type of person to have problems with the OG
>>
>>146172361
Mainstream audiences are unironically cattle whose opinions are fully taken from their Xitter/TikTok/etc timelines like invertebrates reacting to external stimuli.
>>
>>146168677
There are various contradictory accounts of what happened exactly. What you describe is Lee's version, but it was a version after the initial backlash, so it makes sense for him to distance himself from it, he was The Man after all. Conway claimed both that it was his idea and at different point that it was Romita's.
>>
>>146172361
Criticizing Spider-Gwen is transphobic.
>>
I might actually be interested in Spider-Gwen if she was literally a Ghost Spider.
>Gwen starts hating Spider-Man after her dad dies
>slowly starts reconsidering when she realizes Spider-Man might be her boyfriend
>oops too bad dead now
>lingering resentment in the afterlife bubbles up to the point where her soul can't rest peacefully
>some psychopomp goes "okay then dead bitch, you try doing it better" and revives her as a ghostly Spider-Woman trapped in limbo
>>
File: 1730326078328178.png (556 KB, 696x543)
556 KB
556 KB PNG
>>146166507
>Gwen Stacy hate is as forced as Gwen Stacy love
MJ fans are just saying that out of spite to Gwen since they are upset that MJ is now with paul rather then peter.
>>
>>146168934
You keep forgetting spencer did a recton of sins past so her bangin norman is no longer canon. and nobody and I do mean nobody gave a shit about the clones since that not was really her.
>>
File: Scarlet_Spider_-_ATSV.jpg (1.34 MB, 2763x4096)
1.34 MB
1.34 MB JPG
>>146169856
We already had a Spider-person with a hood, and they ruined him intentionally multiple times.
>>
>>146172945
>starts reluctantly working with Peter
>accidentally gets him killed during a mission
>"oopsie-doopsie it's really hard after all lmao"
>ascends
>>
>>146173664
>makes up with him in the afterlife
Everything went better than expected
>>
>>146173704
>they banter abouth each other's deaths while Ben and George look at them like at complete retards
>>
>>146166507
>>her and Peter were each other's firsts whereas MJ has a long dating history before and after Peter
Spider-Man went on date in high school.
>>
File: gwen love life.png (162 KB, 850x450)
162 KB
162 KB PNG
>>146166507
what about Gwen's black boyfriend?
>>
File: Romita knew all along.jpg (181 KB, 500x723)
181 KB
181 KB JPG
>>146168714
>>146168757
Gwen dying definitely didn't make her more interesting, it turned her into a distorted, idealized memory. Most Spider-Man readers don't even know the actual Gwen from when she was alive, they just know the pure, saintly figure she's been portrayed as since she died.

She didn't actually get anything "interesting" about her until she got GOBLINED. Just shut up Gwenpedo, it's still one of her two best stories, the other is the one she dies in
>>
>>146174380
He had a GF during high school.
>>
File: Gwensterio.jpg (261 KB, 518x569)
261 KB
261 KB JPG
>>146175426
>>
>>146175440
One of the more annoying things you see in adaptations is t he pitiful Peter Parker. He might have been a bit of an outcast nerd but that meant a lot of different things in the 60s than it does today. Back then it just meant he was overly studios and his social outcast was largely self inflicted either to needing to do homework or having kind of a chip on his soldier. Now people think being a nerd means being a fanboy man baby geek.
>>
File: MexiGwen.jpg (429 KB, 1064x866)
429 KB
429 KB JPG
>>146166025
She's has a great ass. It's a multiversal constant that every Gwen is dragging a wagon
>>
>>146167403
>60s slang, my guy
Tumble has been slang for fucking since at least the Victorian era, and was still used to mean fucking in the 60's too. What are you even on about?
>>
>>146175771
Dude, quit forcing this shit.
>>
File: Spider-Man-Blue-002_optim.jpg (620 KB, 1888x1390)
620 KB
620 KB JPG
>>146175426
>Gwen dying definitely didn't make her more interesting, it turned her into a distorted, idealized memory. Most Spider-Man readers don't even know the actual Gwen from when she was alive, they just know the pure, saintly figure she's been portrayed as since she died.
I've always read this as implicitly the point of Spider-Man: Blue. Though perhaps that's giving Loeb too much credit, and it's simply that Gwen's two-dimensionality (even in this comic) combined with the themes of nostalgia and the framing narrative with Peter and MJ moving on can be construed in such a way as to suggest the comic is criticising Gwen's reverential, almost-martyr like treatment through Peter's recollection/its own portrayal.
It does say a lot that Blue is perhaps the most notable Gwen-focused Spider-Man comic since 1973 and yet it's still entirely framed through the lens of her death.
I'm waffling. It's past midnight for me.
>>
>>146175543
That's why I'd rather they get rid of the geek aspect and just make him a loner by choice. Maybe give him resting bitch face and lean more into him being temperamental and impulsive. Dude's all attitude in body and mind so he ain't exactly approachable.
>>
>>146175771
What did Stan mean when he wrote it? Come on, you disingenuous retard.
>>
>>146175794
Nigga I'm not forcing jack, I was just reading a memoir set in 1847 about Lola Montez that was compiled and footnoted in 1966, and it repeatedly made use of tumble as a euphemism for fucking (Which she did a lot of).
That's what the damn term means in context.
>>
I think it's pretty telling that, in retrospect, a lot of people think Ditko's take on Gwen was one of the most interesting, if only in a "love to hate" kind of way.

As for me, what I'd do with her is try for a smoother reconciliation between how she was written under Ditko's pen and what later writers did to her. Maybe it could be made clear that she's normally a nice person but Peter made a bad first impression on her that brought out her less likeable side. And once she softens up to him, maybe make it clear that those hard edges are still present.

What do you think?
>>
>>146176053
>I think it's pretty telling that, in retrospect, a lot of people think Ditko's take on Gwen was one of the most interesting, if only in a "love to hate" kind of way.
That's weird, cause Ditko only wrote one woman really, she's just like Vera Sweet and Celia Starr iirc. An annoying flirtatious distraction that the hero valiantly ignores.
>>
>>146175906
>That's what the damn term means in context.
That's what it meant with her, doesn't mean that's what it meant in general.
>>
File: 63.jpg (74 KB, 321x413)
74 KB
74 KB JPG
>>146168832
>and MJ despite that being his best dialogued female character.
>>
>>146176053
>a lot of people think Ditko's take on Gwen was one of the most interesting, if only in a "love to hate" kind of way.
I wouldn't say it's love to hate at all. Ditko's version of Gwen is plainly just more entertaining.
It's fun to see her get completely thrown by Peter's seeming cold shoulder despite her interest in him, and it's nice to see Peter realise what's happened and begin to make amends.
>>
>>146175906
>>146176160
Just to chime in, if you Google "give a tumble", (which was roughly Gwen's exact wording), the first definition is "to get or give favorable attention, affection, etc."

It does not NEED to mean sex, so you can interpret it either way, and I'd say your interpretation says more about you than about Gwen or authorial intent.
>>
>>146175810
The distorted memory of Gwen was definitely already a thing when Loeb wrote Blue, it was probably already a thing when Marvels had an issue focused around the tragedy of her death, ten years before Blue.

You may be giving Loeb too much credit if you're interpreting Blue as a critique of the treatment of Gwen after her death, he practically outed himself as an old Gwenfag at the time, talking about wanting the story to introduce her to newer readers and show them what was so great about her. Loeb seems to be one of the guys >>146170393 talks about, who genuinely believe Spider-Man comics were supposed to be built around an Archie-style love triangle that would never really resolve, and Gwen's death "ruined everything".

Blue is just part of a larger body of Marvel works by Loeb and Sale that all dealt with superheroes mourning a dead loved one, and reminiscing about the early days of that relationship. But as you say, it was the most prominent Gwen-centric story of the modern era, and it's somehow managed to become regarded as a "recommended" entry-tier Spider-Man story, like people are being told to just read that instead of reading actual 1960s Spider-Man. It was fresh in people's minds when Sins Past finally did something good with Gwen, and a lot more people lost their minds than probably would have in a world without Blue. The idealized nostalgia treatment of Gwen is anti-interesting, just served to constantly generate cheap drama about MJ having to compete with a dead girl.

Spider-Man fandom will never be ready to accept that Gwen's kids were more interesting characters than she was.
>>
>>146176362
>Spider-Man fandom will never be ready to accept that Gwen's kids were more interesting characters than she was.
Out of curiosity, how would you try to make Gwen a more interesting character?

RPXRP
>>
File: OTP.jpg (15 KB, 226x171)
15 KB
15 KB JPG
>>146176413
>Out of curiosity, how would you try to make Gwen a more interesting character?
Completely sincerely and unironically, by making her Norman's love interest, not Peter's. Lean in to her being kind of a bitch like in her early appearances, and enjoying playing stepmother to her best friend, and have her encouraging Norman's authoritarian Iron Patriot side. Have Peter be happily married to MJ yet absolutely seething as much as the Jackal is about Gwen being with Norman.
>>
>>146175566
>It's a multiversal constant that every Gwen is dragging a wagon

No, Mexican Gwen is unique. A multiversal anomaly.
>>
>>146176604
Sad. Gwen should be a PAWG in every universe.
>>
File: 1712689913619.jpg (340 KB, 1820x580)
340 KB
340 KB JPG
>>146173086
lucky paul
>>
File: 1701997588146.jpg (118 KB, 1018x496)
118 KB
118 KB JPG
>>146173086
>>
File: 1683737479182.jpg (894 KB, 1988x1267)
894 KB
894 KB JPG
>>146173086
>"thanks BABE"
Paul got the jackpot.
>>
>>146175509
>>146167762
>>
File: 1729834359161.jpg (746 KB, 1108x543)
746 KB
746 KB JPG
>>146166025
Reminder that the redhead bitch whore Mary Jane was fucking with Harry Obsorn's head. She kissed Flash and
just before Gwen's death during the story where they're doing student canvassing, MJ tells Harry to pay attention to her "your girl". And that's after he came back from rehab.
>>
File: 1691932769977.jpg (75 KB, 225x490)
75 KB
75 KB JPG
>>
File: 1730378123631.jpg (102 KB, 445x689)
102 KB
102 KB JPG
>>
>>
File: klxlqb2j4ihb1.jpg (108 KB, 798x599)
108 KB
108 KB JPG
>>
File: 1710886356410727.png (411 KB, 600x416)
411 KB
411 KB PNG
>>
>>
>>



[Advertise on 4chan]

Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.