Why aren't there more Lovecraftian villains in cape comics?
Well DC has a few, but the writers don't know what to do aside from punching and energy blasts
ENTER
There are a lot already though.
>>146448448Because human drama is more interesting than another "unfathomable alien god that's actually pretty fathomable after all because we can see it right on the fucking page"
>>146448448The Mask got really weird towards the end, huh?
Because if you wanna be true to his work, theres really nothing you can do to beat them.
>>146448448Oversaturation risks diminishing the risks such creatures should realistically pose.It's very tricky to portray monsters as a legitimate madness-inducing threat when squirrel girl punches one out in one hit or some other comedy comic has one show up in a top hat as a one-off gag. They should either be all-hands-on-deck planetary (at least) threat, or so insidious and under-the-surface that even recognizing they're doing anything takes a lot of effort.>>146448982See this is the sort of mindset that hurts Galactus. Actually, Galactus is a pretty good example. Galactus is literally a planet-eater. It supposedly appears differently to different cultures. It's not ACTUALLY just some big dude in a purple helmet. Except it's also Reed Richard's son somehow or something? And sometimes people just dick around with him? Whatever. On an infinite timescale you can only tell so many stories about something before it gets really silly.
>>146449119This. Cape and true eldritch is almost exactly on the opposite side of the spectrum to each other.
>>146449119>>146449178I don't know, Shadow Over Innsmouth was pretty hopeful. You could absolutely kill off all the fishmen if you had a solid army.
>>146449220You can deal with individual cases, but you can't really stop the things that causes those cases to pop up in the first place.The fishmen is not the cause, but merely a symptom of something far larger.At best you can have a story where a hero averts a crisis, but doesn't actually deal with whatever caused it.But true cape where the hero inevitably triumphs over the big bad, is incompatible with true eldritch horror, and vice versa.
>>146449220Yeah, until Dagon shows up.
I'd argue they try a lot. You've got Shuma-Gorath, I think a case could be made that Starro counts too. It really depends on how they're being handled. You can't show them too much, or you have to show them just the right way. I think Hellboy has always been one of the gold standards for that kind of thing. You CAN do unspeakable horrors in visual mediums but you have to do it right.>>146449220I think you'd be better off with the Dunwich Horror since they achieve a decisive victory against the monster there. I mean, sure, it confirms unspeakable ungodly horrors exist, but there ARE countermeasures, to a point.
>>146448448Difficult to write the heroes winning.
Because it's DC, not EC.
>>146448448>King Of Tears>Shuma Gorath>The Red>Empty Hand and The Gentry (pretty much)>Lovecraft gods>Doom Patrol villainsThere's actually a lot though
>>146448484Nah
>>146449119There's also the problem that generally speaking, HP chews up his protags up and spits them out. Motherfuckers are either dead, insane or worse by the end and while that works for a horror anthology it's not ideal for a weekly superhero story with continuity.
>>146449836That too.
>>146449119Unless you hit them in the head with a ship or something
>>146449840That was the equivalent of Cthulu waking up in the middle of the night and stubbing his toe, at best.
>>146448448
>>146450046Wow, I could be in the superman movie.That really is a cosmic horror.
Lovecraftian horror is antithetical to capeshit in so many core conventions of the respective sub-genres.One relies heavily on vagueness while the other basically demands crafted and exact visual designs
>>146450201Abalone. A. Not all of Lovecraft's horrors are vague whosits. Those who focus on them solely have read very little of him.B. Vagueness is not only not incompatible with capeshit but has been used effectively in the past. The Great Darkness is a good example despite the eventual reveal.
>>146448448Too much work.>>146448982Most superhero comics aren't interesting and they do the human drama thing. Why not take a chance?
>>146449119People forget that lovecraft was such a hardcore fan of conan the barbarian he let the guy body dagon just cause
>>146451134Was he? I know he was friends with Howard, but he was anti-barbarism, wasn't he?
>>146448484Mister Mind needs to be evil as fuck but also looks like a children's cartoon character. Like if Dr Mengele was a muppet or something. No edgy shit.
>>146448484Looks like a Mi-Go.
>>146448448Overused in media in general.
>>146448484>no dorky glasses and laughNot my mind
>>146450046Those tits!
>>146449336You also have The King Of Tears in DC
>>146448484>>146451258>>146453074
>>146453625Everyone always forgets about M'nagalah, and sleeps on Dark Destroyer.
>>146451134Not cape as such but marvel's Conan himself has fought a number of low-level lovecraftian horrors.Capes actually fight them a lot though it's usually in the form of a portal to a nameless dimension of incomprehensible horrors with tentacles coming out and the defeat consists of forcing them back and sealing off the portal...for now. Syzygy Darklock from Dreadstar has even used this as an attack.
>>146453746That's my mind
I never got the point, if the world doesn't end by the time the story is over.I'm pretty sure the intent is supposed to be>The universe is cold and uncaring and humanity can only hold on to its insignificant existence in the face of unimaginable horrors by making temporary measures to stave off the inevitable end.But most the endings to these stories just have me read it as:>Fuck the odds, humanity will remain defiant in the face of oblivion and hang on with tooth and nail if that's what is nessisary. The closer the end gets, the harder life perseveres.
>>146455451Lovecraft wasn't happy enough to ever consider the second one.
>>146453746so close
>>146448448How is exactly is having like 16 eyes gonna help you against Superman?
>>146448448Shumma Gorath is a literal Lovecraftian deity for one.
>>146454170>the defeat consists of forcing them back and sealing off the portal...for now.Or nuking the whole thing, like in Thanos Imperative.
I think the silver age Titans stories are perfect for a Lovecraftian rework.Teen Titans and the Curse over Hatton CornersThree young heroes—Robin, Aqualad, and Kid Flash—investigate a series of mysterious disappearances in the sleepy coastal town of Hatton Corners. As the Titans investigate the missing teens they discover the town’s unsettling history, the long-storied Stikk family, whose ties to the town date back to its founding, and a mysterious, eldritch entity whose influence has haunted the town for centuries.Stikk is revealed to be orchestrating a ritual to awaken the Antithesis, which would bring destruction to the world. The teen heroes race to stop him, but the true nature of the Antithesis remains a terrifying mystery, leaving the heroes with the chilling knowledge that some cosmic forces are beyond their understanding.
>>146448484I really loved that comicbook. The payoff is really worthy. Great coral story.
>>146456801Which?
>>146456783Dude, read Secret Origins Annual #3.
>>146456121Too cute to be Lovecraftian.
>>146449336>Dunwich HorrorSounds like a good read
>>146448448because cape comics can not do the unknowable see any amount of retcons and overcomplex plotsYou also can't really beat lovecraft horrors. Cthulhu would lose his appeal if everyone knew what it was and could just give a big fuck off punch or big beam till the next event or whatever
>>146448448Remember when Watchmen crossed over into mainstream DC continuity and the Justice League fought him? Doc is man turned God, Superman punching him shouldn't do much but they have it where he felt Superman punching him was going to end him. The more powerful the villain, the more powerful the hero becomes because they will ultimately win.
>>146458275I've read it. That's why I want this. The story deserves a self-contained 12 issue prestige maxi. Combine the Hatton Corners story with Antithesis story from TT#53. If it's successful do a follow up set in the modern day like the second half of IT.
>>146449766dont forget >god (the authority)>ogdru jahad (hellboy)?>shub niggurath (locke and key)>NIGGER EGGS (planetary)
>>146459869It's easily one of Lovecraft's most noteworthy stories. The Necronomicon makes one of its most relevant appearances there, and is probably quoted the most, in that one. On the one hand, there's an invisible monster the size of a barn. On the other hand, it's technically half-human, and there are rites and rituals that can be used against it.There's a decent 70s movie adaptation and a neat radio play version out there if you're interested. The book version is also out there - free, I think, as most of his works are archived online.>>146460234This is also true, it's almost impossible to properly power scale stuff like that. For what it's worth though, I don't think doing self-contained, separate stories with versions of cape characters in a lovecraftian sort of plot is impossible. (The comic version) The Doom That Came to Gotham is fucking stellar. But you really can't do it in a universe where there isn't a definitive ending. You NEED the story to finish to preserve a proper sense of postponed doom/dread. Sure, the heroes won, but at what cost, and for how long?
Wasn't there a whole cancer universe out there? I forget whether it was Marvel or DC. I think Marvel. Basically just the concept of an entire universe that in itself infects and destroys others.
>>146461086im sure both have done something similar many timesim sure image has aswell.
>>146461086That was WildStorm, from The Monarchy. It was called Chimera, a sentient cancer that infects universes. Anon >>146460660 inadvertently mentions it's origin.
>>146461100>>146461136https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Earth-10011Reading this, it's pretty clear why this sort of thing doesn't work long term. It's an interesting idea, but then you bring in standard comic book plot shenanigans into it and boom, even unspeakable universe-level cosmic horror can't stand against the status quo.
>>146461207On the contrary - in WildStorm's case, it was the status quo.Try reading.
>>146461136i was legit thinking of god when i replied, i love the bit where the crazy women jumps out the window because midnighter killed "god" when its just a infection
>>146461242Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you were talking about a different comic company entirely. I thought you were referencing a run or a story or something. I hadn't heard of that before. I was just quoting you because I'd found the thing I was originally thinking of, Marvel's literal "cancerverse".Would you mind explaining the one you're talking about? Genuinely interested.
>>146461316https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/God_(Wildstorm_Universe)i think hes talking about this
>>146461086>Basically just the concept of an entire universe that in itself infects and destroys others.Not really, it was just an universe where death itself had died and life kept growing as a cancer. It only spread to the regular universe because of an Inhuman screwup.>>146461207It worked in context perfectly, later stories probably ruined it though.
>>146461338Actually, no, and I don't know that they're even related.The origin I was refering to were the 'nigger eggs' anon >>146460660 mentioned, from Planetary/Authority. What was dealt with as a swarm of hunter killer drones in that issue would evolve and come back in The Monarchy.
>>146462208ohhhhhhh the nigger eggs part,(im the NIGGER EGGS anon) i thought it was just a reference to love craft, but the authority did fight an ancient lovecraftian "god" and they did a planetary crossover so you cann see why i got confused
>>146462249If you hadn't read The Monarchy, you wouldn't know at all lol. It's fine.
>>146462286so the nigger eggs is from something else entirely thats involved with wildstorm? i just know they meet lovecraft and he has some nigger eggs
A Study in Emerald.
>>146462335not capeshit, although very fun.
>>146462344>not capeshitOh, right. Derp.
>>146462323Yeah, something out in the multiverse (Chimera) sent its eggs to infect and take over the WildStorm universe, but Lovecraft and Elijah Snow dealt with them in the 20's. Then it evolved, and the Authority accidentally opened the door for them and had to push them back through. It would evolve again and metastasize, being one of the reasons the Weavers recruit Jackson King and his wife to form the Monarchy.
>>146462411huh, well the more you know.
>>146462427There is a twist, of course.
>>146448448Because Lovecraftian creatures are unknowable, thus undepictable. Any attempt at making a creature that supposedly makes people go "AAAH I'M GOING INSANE" is gonna fall flat because the reader is seeing the same creature. It's an inherently impossible thing for a visual medium, because once you give the unknowable form it's not interesting anymore, it's just a squid thing / mess of eyeballs.
>>146462513>it's not interesting anymore, it's just a squid thing / mess of eyeballs.very fucking true, its why the colour from outer space is such a good concept. its just a fucking colour we cant imagine because we only know colours weve seen. i felt retarded typing that
>>146462539But it's not retarded. We know infrared and ultraviolet light exist. We can't see them, they're literally colors we can't imagine.
>>146462564yeah but im sure in the story its only called a colour by name and they cant describe what it actually is other than some weird abstract snot made from a "colour" lovecraft did a fucking good job considering were still talking about it right now
>>146462513>>146462539I'm gonna contradict myself here a bit: You can depict an eldritch monster by showing the effects it has on people. I think the sphere thing from that Warhammer fan-film Astartes is a good example of that. It's just this... ball, that has powers that not even superhuman mega-weapons can overcome. It's unknowable because you literally don't know what it is, you just see this sphere thing pulse and then people around it start getting sucked into it and none of their scifi weapons work.I'm sure a Warhammer nerd could give me the back-story, but as someone completely new to that universe, it's just terrifying, because I have no goddamn idea what it is.
>>146462513Generally it's accepted that you're only seeing aspects of a creature or the form that it somewhat resembles. Consider, like, The Hounds of Tindalos. They're not actually hounds. They're not literal dogs, that's just the closest approximation you can make.There's a webcomic that's actually pretty fucking good called Witch Creek Road. I won't get too into it because I think it's cool to read through it and figure out their deal on your own but suffice to say there's characters that are directly derived from that concept. They appear as three hot chicks but as explained by one of them "You know when you see a coat hanging on the wall and you think it's a person for a second?" It's your brain struggling to put a shape to something it can't understand. (Also strongly recommending that comic)Having said all that I get that in terms of the visual medium of comics, for the reader, it's very hard to appropriately convey that level of unsettling dread. I don't think it's impossible, but it's very hard. You're right that in most cases, less is certainly more, and books allow for imagination to fill in the gaps the narrative leaves. >>146462564I think some valiant efforts have been made. For one thing, most people default to magenta, I think, because it's not a real color. It's an optical illusion. It's pretty literally your brain forcing you to perceive something in a way it can process.I'd also argue iridescent colors make for a pretty close approximation, too, but you're right that the colour is the best example. I always figured it was just literally sentient radiation.
>>146462620It's also because of the buildup, that shows that these warriors are larger than life, they can tear through space-ships and gatling guns and even espers like they're nothing, but when the ball pulses they are basically babies
>>146462620the ball is probably cthan if anything
>>146462632>The C'tan (pronounced ker-TAN) or Star Gods, called Yngir in the Aeldari Lexicon, are said to be the oldest intelligent beings in existence in the Milky Way Galaxy. It is said that they were created at the very beginning of the universe, incorporeal entities spawned from swirling gases and enormous amounts of energy, and as such are etheric creatures by nature.>In their natural form they are vast beings of pure energy who spread themselves over the surface of a star, absorbing its solar energy to feed themselves. After a time, they learned to use diaphanous wings created from the universe's lines of electromagnetic force to travel to other stars to continue their consumption when their host star died. What the fuck why didn't anybody tell me Warhammer 40k had this kinda lore?? I always thought it was just gay scifi elves vs gay scifi orcs, that sounds fucking awesome!
>>146462684im sorry but whatever rock you live under sounds fucking boring. everyone knows warhammer 40k lore is fucking amazing, expansive and stupid. but still amazing.
>>146462684No it's more like starship troopers by way of judge dredd, from what I know of it.
>>146462706its just space "angels" and space "demons" if anything.
>>146462701>im sorry but whatever rock you live under sounds fucking boring.I don't play tabletop games man, even when I've seen the video games it's either big dudes shooting bugs or scifi orcs doing shit, which I assumed had an elven counterpart.
>>146462739i dont even like 40k that much and i know alot about it, could be because im english and it was made here, but there are elves involved. theyre just aliens who wear pointy helmets and are much older than humanity
>>146462344Would Locke & Key count?
>>146448448>Why aren't there more Lovecraftian villains in cape comics?Do you mean tentacle monsters or do you mean beings that induce cosmic insignificance? Because the latter is the polar opposite of capeshit.
>>146460234Remember how much they had to power him up just to make that story reasonable?
>>146462758kind of yes, i was meant to put a question mark but in the golden age john? locke goes to ww1 and tries to win the war himself with the keys and fucks up, kinda capeshit? i guess?
>>146462754>theyre just aliens who wear pointy helmets and are much older than humanityPickelhaube Elves, interesting. Clearly I have much to learn.
>>146462539>colour we cant imagine because we only know colours weve seenGreenish purple-orange. The same colour as the Time Knife. Also Tuesdays.
>>146462787Also, space orks are british rednecks with mad max macguyver bullshit and lots and lots of guns and not much compunctions about how they use them.
>>146462798IT. JUST. WORKS.DO. NOT. QUESTION. IT.
>>146462798Wait a minute I'm just reading up on the WH Orcs - so whatever they collectively believe to be true, and the more that believe it the more true it gets, becomes reality? How is that not the most broken power in any universe?
>>146462773That's what I was thinking, too.
>>146462809See>>146462808Also they're not very bright.
>>146462809yes. basically. belief is stronger than logic and it works
>>146462817oh so that's the handicap, they have this incredibile power, but are a race of as >>146462798 says British rednecks. I understand now
>>146462834they dont ever really die either, their bodies just to turn to organic waste which becomes a moss pit of fungus and they basically become 10 more, imagine a disgusting hydra made from the last of us disease
>>146462868an ever-expanding immortal group of psychic, reality-destroying hooligans? Good god, they really are English football fans
>>146462834They're... fun.Thanks for reminding me I still had some of Slut Patrol on my hard drive. /co/ used to be a lot more fun.
>>146462888OI OI WE ONLY WORSHIP MAN UNITED(from my memory they do only worship 2 different ork gods that fuel their beliefs so its literally like 2 football teams )
>>146448448Because they're all pretty derivative. Creature with too many eyeballs and tentacles threatens the world/reality.
>>146463349But capeshit is the definition of derivative.Buff weirdo commits extrajudicial violence.
>>146462763>Because the latter is the polar opposite of capeshit.Sounds like a challenge.
>>146448448They saw that one Strange comic where he fought Shuma and figured there was no topping that so why even bother
>>146459605Fun fact: the name Shuma Gorath first appeared in Robert E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian books. Howard was friends with H.P Lovecraft and used some elements of the mythos to his writings.
>>146465775Yeah, they couldn't use Shuma in the last Dr Strange movie for reasons related to that.
>>146467562Really? Does someone own the rights to Conan? And is that why we didn't get eldritch kino when Dr Strange 2 came out?
>>146463349That's because you haven't read Lovecraft.
Zenith sucked.Needed more nazis.
As I recall, there were several Lords Of Chaos that were also essentially this.>>146465775Howard also came up with Set and the Serpent Men (they were great at Monterey), the latter of which Lovecraft wove into the background for Yig. Set's true form is actually a lot weirder than he normally appears too.
>>146468702The non-Nazi parts were better.
