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>actually surprisingly nice to use
>very fast
>ecosystem is already good and getting even better
>can do pretty much everything with it, has support for everything
Why is this board always fucking wrong? Doing the opposite of what /g/ says has always led to pleasant surprises.
>>
>>101363790
>pleasant surprises.
That's what you're in for when you take home that "girl" you met at the Rust conference.
>>
>>101363803
Yeah, the only argument you have against the language is that its community (which you're not forced to interact with) has troons. Thank god I didn't fall for the memes and actually tried it out instead of listening to /g/'s shitty advice or I would've missed out on what is currently the best programming language, bar none.
>>
>>101363790
>can't do anything useful without using unsafe blocks
what's the point
>>101363820
>which you're not forced to interact with
but they dictate what happens to the language
>the best programming language, bar none
lol lmao
>>
>>101364041
>>can't do anything useful without using unsafe blocks
Skill issue
>they dictate what happens
No they don't kek
>lol lmao
What's better? Since you're a nocoder, you'll say C
>>
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>>101364041
>can't do anything useful without using unsafe blocks
your entire language is an unsafe block
>>
>>101364062
I never get things wrong so I don't need to pretend.
>>
>>101364056
C++, it is good enough to compile Rust code.
>>
>>101363790
since you cant use your own brain, I'll give you this article that explains all the obvious stuff that an experienced developer would have known before spending 3 years on Rust:
https://loglog.games/blog/leaving-rust-gamedev/
>>
>>101364093
>C++
Nobody, even the people who tolerate C++, has ever called this language "nice to use". C++ is incredibly tedious and not at all pleasant to write a project in.
>>
>>101363790
>>actually surprisingly nice to use
Depends on what you're doing. When things get ugly in Rust, they get _really_ ugly.
>>
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>>101364085
just make sure you never use third party libraries or anyone else's code
>>
>>101364105
>That being said, there is an overwhelming force in the Rust community that when anyone mentions they're having problems with Rust the language on a fundamental level, the answer is "you just don't get it yet, I promise once you get good enough things will make sense". This is not just with Rust, if you try using ECS you're told the same thing. If you try to use Bevy you'll be told the same thing. If you try to make GUIs with whichever framework you choose (be it one of the reactive solutions or immediate mode), you'll be told the same thing. The problem you're having is only a problem because you haven't tried hard enough.
trvthnuke literally, when you get good at programming, things like segfaults will never happen
>>101364135
>intellectual work requiring a lot of brainpower is tedious
WOW anon, did you come up with this on your own or did someone more intelligent tell you about that?
>>
>>101364150
>>intellectual work requiring a lot of brainpower is tedious
That's not what I said, faggot.
The fact that you pride yourself on making work as tedious and unpleasant as possible tells me you're a nocoder who's never worked on a serious project.
>>
>>101363820
>which you're not forced to interact with
Until you download a rust crate with 500 dependencies with a code of conduct.
>>
>>101364174
>using a good language that has many tools to make my life easy is... the opposite actually
I see, someone more intelligent told you that intellectual works are tedious
>>
>>101364144
Most rust crates use unsafe blocks. This is not the own you think it is.
>>
>>101364184
im not trying to "own" you. im highlighting the logical fallacies in your replies. the goal of rust is to *minimize* the use of problematic code. we all agree it cant be eliminated
>>
>>101364181
>a good language that has many tools to make my life easy
So, not C++? Retard.
>>
>>101364181
>He haven't heard of xmake
>>
>>101364206
C++ is the only language that lets me do anything I want.
>>101364212
>shill outs himself
it's no wonder, sorry but I use GNU Make, it takes 15 lines of Make to build millions of lines projects, seethe dunning kruger.
>>
>>101364204
>problematic code
skill issue
>>
>>101364220
>C++ is the only language that lets me do anything I want.
And using is as pleasant as jacking off with sandpaper, because it's an endlessly bloated and overcomplicated mess.
Rust is the best alternative so far. It lets you do anything you want, but it's not such a drag to use.
>>
>>101363790
To effectivly use rust requires one to give up their entire life and ego unto rust. Its why so many rustacians troon out, they already give up their entire life, why not give up their gender too.
>>
>>101363803
hot
>>
>>101364225
if i had a button to eliminate all the programmers with skill issues there would be no software left
>>
>>101364249
>bloated
rust has 13 types for strings
>>
>>101364249
I never tried jacking off with sandpaper so I cannot comment on that, but I just use your mother to relieve myself.
>>
>>101364276
>your mother benchod bastard!
Ok pajeet, lmao
>>
>>101364280
to be fair, using C++ feels better than your mother
>>
>>101364274
obligatory:
>https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2003/10/08/the-absolute-minimum-every-software-developer-absolutely-positively-must-know-about-unicode-and-character-sets-no-excuses/
>>
>>101364273
don't threaten me with a good time
>>
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>>101364249
the syntax is disgusting
borrowing is poop
slow to compile
async is a joke
tokio
sorry but you should just end your life
>>
>>101364287
SAAR DO NOT INSULT C++
>>
>>101364105
nice blog post but his games are the usual indie pixel slop
>>
>>101364289
interesting, will read it later tanks
>>
>>101364322
Good thing that Rust attracts unimaginative people who cannot do anything more complex than indie pixel slop which is why they fear writing C++ code (literally lingua franca of video games).
>>
>>101364299
Not him but what's a good language that ticks the boxes? We're long overdue for a language that's fast, well-supported and modern in its syntax and expressiveness
>>
>>101364348
Zig is probably closest to what people who do things in C or C++ want with modern features and syntax, but the memory safety it offers is optional.
So...there really isn't anything out there that can cover all bases.
>>
>>101364056
>Skill issue
yes. a common skill issue.
the vast majority of programmers aren't as good as you think you are at rust.
this leads to rust being an unsafe language, as it is most commonly not used in a safe way
due to the inconvenience of it.
>>
>>101363790
I'm really fucking shit at programming, rust especially, but I enjoy it a lot
Typesafety is great, and I like how the compiler can handhold me
>>
>>101364274
C++ has about as many as rust once you add up all the various character widths and buffers vs views and C baggage.

>>101364538
IME bad Rust code doesn't tend to use unsafe unless it actually needs C FFI or something. In that case it probably does fuck it up but most crates don't need it and don't use it.
A more usual problem is that it unwrap()s all over the place instead of propagating errors properly.
>>
>>101364711
>C++ has about as many as rust
>char*
>struct string { char* data; };
and the rest are?
>>
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>>101363790
>>actually surprisingly nice to use
Everyone knows you're lying. The dropout rate for people trying your shitlang is like 95%.
>>
>>101363790
>can do pretty much everything with it
>>
The perfect C++ replacement could've unironically been Swift if only Applel focused more on its performance and made it truly cross-platform. As it stands it has everything going for it except for those two points
>>
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>>101364996
DataCHADS, where we at
>>
>>101364934
s/char/wchar_t/, s/char/char32_t/, same for char8_t and char16_t
Then an std::basic_string and an std::basic_string_view instantiation for each character type
Maybe std::filesystem::path too, I don't know how that works exactly
>but I don't use the standard library
You're in luck, you don't have to use Rust's standard library either
>>
>>101365230
never needed any of this
>>
>>101365276
t. nocoder
>>
>>101364957
That’s only true because of the 41% you get just as a start.
>>
>>101364085
>I never get things wrong so I don't need to pretend.
So why do you need a language that's "safe"?
>>
>>101365002
>call it Swift
>slow to compile and slow to run
What did apple means by that?
>>
>>101365664
everything I need to do can be done with char*, irrelevant toy OSes need not apply
>>
>>101365705
non-sequitur
>>
>>101365716
I mean it's not slow per se, it's slow for a compiled language but it's still miles ahead of shit like ruby
>>
>>101363790
Transgender take
>>
>>101363790
I used to like it until I started working on medium sized projects and changes would take way too long to make. I think it's really fun for small projects but it gets so tedious later down the line. Refactoring too frequently, and ending up with pins and arc<mutex<>> which become unreadable when you come back to it months later.
compilation times were never an issue for me past the initial one.
>>
>>101364996
>Java and python at the top
What the actual FUCK
>>
>>101363790
I generally agree, but I stopped using it because it's a language that consumes you, and I didn't like that. I programmed rust non-stop for around 6 months, and it was kind of hard to get back into not using a borrow checker after a while, because it was so convenient. Here are some things I dislike about the language, and why you should possibly reconsider:

>Libraries are generally good, but they also suffer from over abstraction. For people with smaller brains like me this means it can be hard to keep everything in my head
>The community does genuinely matter, and the rust foundation seems to be looking to monopolize the language for the most part, which is a huge deal for me personally
>Although most of /g/s complaints are straight up skill issues, the language can get pretty complex at times if you aren't careful, although I'm inclined to believe that too is a skill issue (I still fall for it.)
>While libraries are high quality for the most part, most suffer from too many dependencies-itis.
>No standard ABI
>Reliant on LLVM
>No C interop, which I can't really fault the language for, but it can be inconvenient

So basically it's a matter of
>complexity, tooling, community

Ultimately the actual reason I stopped was because I program windows, which doesn't really expose most of their APIs to C, so I just ended up going back to c++. I am also not a big fan of functional style programming, I think it's harder to reason around resource wise and leads to uglier code most times.

Things I like about it:

>Features are well designed and all feel like they have a purpose
>The borrow checker makes so much shit a breeze I'm not even going to bother listing them
>I like a lot of the ideas the standard libraries has, such as Optional and Result types, although I prefer go style errors
>Very expressive and easy to write. I used the language for adhoc "scripting" tasks
Among others. I think learning it made me a better programmer.
>>
>>101365996
By C interop I mean it can't read C headers natively like something like zig or c++ *
>>
>>101365996
>>The community does genuinely matter, and the rust foundation seems to be looking to monopolize the language for the most part, which is a huge deal for me personally
This. The more compilers, the merrier. There are literally only 2 compilers for the language, and 1 of them (GCC-rs) is extremely barebones right now.
>>
>>101365935
>>Java and python at the top
>What the actual FUCK
It just werks.
>>
>>101365996
I appreciate the rare non-meme-spewing post.
>Libraries are generally good, but they also suffer from over abstraction. For people with smaller brains like me this means it can be hard to keep everything in my head
>Although most of /g/s complaints are straight up skill issues, the language can get pretty complex at times if you aren't careful, although I'm inclined to believe that too is a skill issue (I still fall for it.)
I kind of agree, I especially hate when libraries overuse closures, generics, weird builder pattern stuff, functional programming, etc.
But I would still consider the library situation to be miles ahead of how it is in other languages.
And in my own code, it's never been an issue to just not do all those things and keep it simple and clean.
>No standard ABI
>Reliant on LLVM
Did this cause real issues for you? In what cases?
>I program windows, which doesn't really expose most of their APIs to C, so I just ended up going back to c++
Don't they have official crates for using windows APIs from rust?
>>
>>101366131
>Did this cause real issues for you? In what cases?
No issues. Just something that perpetuates C reliance. I don't hate C or anything, but not having a standard ABI really fucked us in the ass when it comes to C. Imagine a world where your binaries can just run on any system without needing to be compiled specifically for that OS / Arch, that's what we could have.

>Don't they have official crates for using windows APIs from rust?
I thought the crate dealt with the win32 API only, but this doesn't seem to be the case, so I am wrong. They actually seem to have everything there, including D3D12 APIs.
>>
>>101366091
There's also mrustc, not really suitable for general use but less barebones than gcc-rs

>>101366292
>Imagine a world where your binaries can just run on any system without needing to be compiled specifically for that OS / Arch, that's what we could have
Best bet for that seems WASM/WASI. Good Rust support. Typical use still involves a libc shim of course.
>>
>>101363790
Fuck off with that toy language and get back when there will be a real use case for embedded programming.

t. embedded dev
>>
>>101364249
>endlessly bloated and overcomplicated mess
There is no one behind you pointing a gun to your head forcing you to use those features. You can stick with plain old C++ without the bells and whistles from recent years and it'll be still good.
>>
>>101366377
Nobody is talking about embedded ITT, go back to your soldering board grug
>>
>>101366409
>Nobody is talking about embedded ITT

Are you mad that I called you out on a field where Rust is severely lacking?
>>
>>101364299
I'm basically a no-coder, but when doing my some courses I almost selected Rust as my "choose a language to learn" language. Before making my choice I spent a few days going through the tutorial. Holy shit is the syntax fucking awful. I know I'm just used to C styled languages, but Jesus Christ, it's UGLY.
>>
>>101363790
because only the mentally retarded have their voices echo so loud and far with their screeching. most normgroid places patrol the mentally unfit, /g/ doesn't.
>>
>>101364041
>what's the point
why don't you use the language and find out retard. it's more than safety.
>>
>>101367008
>I'm basically a no-coder
Being honest about it is nice, but your opinion is still worth nothing.
>>
>>101364299
>async is a joke
why? you realize you can't guarantee c++ coroutines won't allocate right?
>>
>>101365996
biggest nocoder brainlet response ever.
>noooo the type system is too complex
skill issue
>no standard ABI
Rust will guarantee the same platform abi you're on for extern system like every other shitty language you absolute dumb nigger.
C doesn't have a standard ABI either.

I swear to christ this board is full of the dumbest niggers of all time
>>
>>101366131
>Don't they have official crates for using windows APIs from rust?
it's WIN32 only. All modern Windows is heavily pozzed behind their NIH .NET runtime garbage. They only bothered making it work well with C++ and still make it a nightmare.
>>
>>101366377
>when there will be a real use case for embedded programming
there are already production rust using embedded devices currently and companies like Espressif are actually supporting it, not only for their memey Xtensa bullshit, but their RISC-V shit is basically Rust first.
Embassy shows that the async state machine makes it easy to write no-alloc, high performance concurrent embedded code as well.
Also since rust has an actual solution to multi-threading as a first class concept, you'll just reinvent the same data races you probably do in your application C code while rust chads can do full SMP on their 2+ core Cortex-M SoCs.

you're a dumb faggot.
>>
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I don't care who TRF sends I'm not using Rust
>>
>>101366010
>By C interop I mean it can't read C headers natively like something like zig or c++ *
Zig can't either. C++ technically can insofar that C is subset-y enough most times.

bindgen is a realistic best effort equivalent to what Zig is lying about doing.
>>
Cross platform dev is such a nightmare anyway so why do you care
Just develop for your own platform
>>
>>101367238
If you're lazy, the zig compiler can be used as a multiplatform, single binary c, c++ compiler and a code linker.
cargo-zigbuild lets you do the whole zigger glibc version targeting as well.
On a cucked work windows machine I use it to build x86_64-linux-gnu2.17 binaries.
>>
>>101364273
I've often said that programmers should have a bomb under their seat that goes off if their code segfaults
it's funny how the 'git gud' crowd never takes that challenge. cluck cluck?
>>
>>101365755
>everything I need to do
so you only do segfaults all day long? jelly
>>
>>101367211
I have used zig. It reads most libraries I use just fine. Can't say the same about bindgen.

>>101367094
Bizarre gorilla posting.
>noooo the type system is too complex
>skill issue
I didn't mention the type system once in my post. Also the complexity issues I mentioned are skill issues as I have also mentioned. That doesn't change the fact that they're still issues in the same way spaghetti systems built on inheritance are problematic and also a skill issue. If you think complexity is never a problem because "if you can't map it all in your head then it's a skill issue" then you have no business calling anyone a nocoder.
>C doesn't have a standard ABI either.
>Rust will guarantee the same platform abi
Yes, C doesn't have a standard ABI. That's bad. That's the critique. That's what I was saying rust didn't fix.

I have been programming C since I was 12. You should definitely kill yourself, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
>>
>>101363790
Terrible, ugly and useless programming "language" with shitty community.
If you want to write safe code, use Ada programming language and be a man.
In 10 years from now, we'll be laughing at stupid experiment called "Pust".
>>
>>101367869
>shitty community
agreed
>use Ada
cringe
>>
Safety is always bad becauSegmentation fault (core dumped)
>>
>safety is good because I'm a stupid nigger monkey who can't program, literally the type Terry A. Davis warned you about
>>
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This webm tells you everything you need to know about rust.
>>
why does every retard talk about safety?
rust is basically haskell for imperative fags. borrow checker is just an imperative cruch to give you a lot of the same niceties of being immutable by design.

it's literally perfect at what it does and I haven't seen anything like it, in the imperative space. there are a bunch of ridiculous C++ competitors and every single one of them actually fails at being good because they ignore what Haskell and FP fags already knew.
SICP was deprecated by haskell faggots, OCaml is basically OOJeetery, C++ delegates all its powers to a ridiculous c preprocessor and template dsl.

just accept that Haskell won and Rust is the closest to greatness you'll ever attain.
>>
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>>101368083
Epic. Fuck Pust.
>>
>>101368096
>just accept my meme languages
lol no
>>
>>101367043
no thanks i don't want the extra estrogen
>>
>>101363790
>Why is this board always fucking wrong? Doing the opposite of what /g/ says has always led to pleasant surprises.
That's what I try to tell people in any thread with Rust. NPCs on here shit on it without even being able to write a hello world in any programming language. It's been funny seeing the adoption over the years and the backpedaling on here. There are a lot more people who speak positively of it than in the past and tons of complaints people used to have are addressed. Goalposts are constantly moving and they'll have nothing once the spec lands which is being actively developed.
>>
>>101368259
----[---->+<]>-.--[-->+++<]>-.[->+++++++<]>.++++++.-[---->+<]>+++.+[->+++<]>.--.+++++++++++++.[++>---<]>++.[->+++<]>-.[---->+<]>+++.--[->++++<]>-.-----.---------.+++++++++++.+++[->+++<]>.--[--->+<]>-.-[--->++<]>--.---.+++++++..+++.[--->+<]>-----.--[->++++<]>-.---[++>---<]>-.-[-->+++<]>-.++.++++++++.-[-->+<]>----.
>>
>>101368259
Reminder that the vast majority of people who bother trying R*st drop it and move on.
>>
>>101368294 (me)
by "it" I mean their body off the chair while their neck is fastened to the ceiling
>>
>>101368259
The advent of code threads were basically proof that Rust won. I don't know why anyone implies otherwise, unless they're literally nocoders.
t. completed (50 stars) 2023 in Rust.
>>
Rust's best feature is its documentation, at least for the major crates. It popularized the "book" concept which is really good.
>>
>>101363790
I don't trust a programming language with a built-in package manager
>>
>>101368363
>advent of code, commandline programs, reinventing the wheel
so when will rustfags make anything actually useful, like a compiler that mogs GCC and LLVM?
>>
>>101368429
https://github.com/googlefonts/oxidize
>>
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b-b-blazing f-fast!
>>
>>101368429
literal nocoder response.
show me your starts cuck.
>>
>>101368429
>like a compiler that mogs GCC and LLVM?
cranelift is based on e-graphs and might be a superior way forward than lossy optimization passes.
I accept your concession, kddo.
>>
>>101368471
>starts
>>101368493
>kddo
>>
>>101365935
Why are you surprised? Nocoder?
>>
>>101368507
this. outside of boomerware, it's basically all javajeet or soulless C Shart. Python because people have been psyop'd into believing it's easy + all the unproducible retarded (post)doc research.

given Biz cucks are absolutely obsessed with making reports, knowing SQL is probably critical for more than just the programmers so it being number one when it comes to wage cucking is pretty much unsurprising.
>>
>>101368464
>mogs
which multi billion dollar companies use this and for what purpose?
>>
>>101368550
>esl shitting on rust for no reason
every time
>>
>>101368553
>hurr ur an ESL
try not to embarrass yourself tranny, it's not even a relevant compiler
>muh fonts
comic sans is all I ever needed
>>
>>101368553
>if you hate rust, you must be an ESL
Sounds kinda racist.
>>
>>101368566
>it's not even a relevant compiler
>a compiler is not a compiler because it doesn't build C code.
idc anymore, you're fucking retarded either way. fuck off.
>>
>>101368584
>rustroon literally cannot build C code
lmfao, I wonder what language xer own compiler is written in since it's certainly not Rust
>>
>>101368615
why haven't you showed us your stars yet? can you not program and solve basic puzzles or something?
>>
>>101368629
you can go outside and gaze upon the sky if you aren't a pig, you will see plenty enough, and they're all mine, because I'm a C++ programmer, and this world is mine
>>
>>101368629
>stars
Nta but not everyone uses LeetCode you dense motherfucker
>>
>>101368638
>>101368647
so you can't code. good to know.
>>
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>>101368655
>You've been coding in C/C++, the 2 most prolific programming languages, for what, like 10+ years? Heh. You aren't a real coder.
>>
>So you can't JeetCope? Good evening sar!
>>
>>101368669
>>101368672
can't wait til December when you retards get filtered yet again and shit up the generals with, "um sweaty, I have a heckin jobberinos" like anyone cares you're a mentally stunted moron. Good for you.
>>
>>101368723
>Brings up your unemployment out of nowhere
I'm "unemployed" (but living off my parents at least) too but wow ok I didn't ask about your financial stability or lack thereof
>>
>>101368096
>SICP was deprecated
Take that back
>>
>>101369031
SICP didn't have an answer to the IO question.
>>
>>101369108
It never needed to
>>
>>101367925
>cringe
Why? Ada is actually quite pleasant to use. I don't think it has the same goals as Rust though, so there's not always a clean overlap.
>>
>>101363820
youre too dumb to understand why rust is shit, nocoder
>>
>>101368466
fast is about runtime?
which cpu?
>>
Rust programms are fast

Writing the Programm itself is hard and annoying

I'm stupid I'll stick to go
>>
>>101367008
>the syntax is so hard, that it is the biggest thing keeping me away from learning a language.
>>
>>101367588
Hey boss, what is your opinion on Zig so far? I'm interested in hearing from someone who actually has C experience.
>>
i think the rust mascot is cute and im tired of pretending otherwise.
>>
>>101364180
Protip: codes of conduct are not software licenses. You are not obligated to obey them to use the product. The only time they are ever relevant is if you are trying to make a contribution to the project, and want them to accept your pull request.
>>
>>101374013
you're wasting your time explaining something that's a boogeyman in his head



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