The last thread lasted 6 days. A long time.

I will answer your AWS or SQL questions until my wife is done making chicken wings for dinner.
>I've been reading and reading and I want to read more to learn, what should I read?
don't. build.
>sell me on using AWS instead of a VPS
I'm not a salesman and you haven't given me a use case.

>>102508383
>6 days
how many rewrites and how many new frameworks is that?

>>102508419
The only "use case" for AWS is making shit even more complicated, because somehow people got bored by fucking ftping their stuff into ./www/ once they finished transpiling their shitty build pipeline.

>>102508419
why do people say aws vs vps as if ec2 doesn't exist

>>102508475
Probably just being contrarians.

Does anyone here make money off of websites from adsense?

When I search the internet there is a bunch of sketchy stuff. So I wanted to hear some personal experiences. What amount of traffic is sufficient to get a significant income?

>>102506642
I'm at a point where I want to make more stuff, but making something interesting takes a lot of work.

fuck pajeets

File: 1723860520029901.jpg (114 KB, 450x450)

114 KB JPG

>>102509855
You are very welcome, always help your fellow anon follow the white path.

>>102508368
Django is based but it needs a built-in queue system ASAP

>>102510617
At the very minimum, Django seriously needs to work on its documentation to be on par with something like Laravel or Ruby. Especially with their ORM and REPL. Right now it feels kind of masochistic to use Django unless you know all it's ins-and-outs.

They need something like this: https://bootcamp.laravel.com/

Alright, I want to become a backend dev. What do I need to learn? I want to try out something with Java since I know a little bit about it already. I also know some frontend basics already since that was the original goal

This is long term btw, I don't expect to be hired fast
That doesn't bother me at all and neither does AI calling me love and fucking me sideways

I think my project is actually done.
Now I just have to figure out deployment :(

>>102511351
If your primary concern is employment then you need to see what's in demand for your area and learn the shit out of that. But in actuality, just befriend/suck someone that already works somewhere you want to work and get them to get you in and you probably won't even need to know anything.

>>102511541
just do some serverless shit on google cloud or aws
probably the cheapest

>>102511592
Nah, I spent a long time building a real app so I'm going to handle the hosting/scaling myself.
Serverless only exists to siphon money from retards that can't spend a couple of hours setting up a VPS.

>>102509363
I run a single blog. When I first activated adsense, it produced $5-12 per day. I thought that was trash money and not worth annoying users, so I deactivated it.

I decided to reactivate it a few months after that, and now it earns anywhere from $0.06-0.50/day. Maybe $2.00-4.00/month. This is with 200-300 users per day. Although an article went "viral", with 3,000 users in a single day. That made like $15 through adsense, and maybe $12 with amazon affiliate links.

I'm about to get my first adsense payment ever (after 2 years of on/off), which is ~$100.50. I don't know if I did something wrong with deactivating adsense, but it really isn't worth it, although it's better than a savings account, I guess.

I think it would be really good if you had like 10+ blogs all linked to the same account. But that would require so much fucking work. If you can buy blogs, do it.

File: ads.png (32 KB, 976x227)

32 KB PNG

>>102511713
pic related. I was wrong on the balance.

>>102511351
>he's still learning to get a job
>2024
You're not going to make it, lulz.

>>102511351
Laravel

>>102511627
dont you pay for VPS too tho?

>>102511837
Infinitely less, yes.

>>102511713
Thanks for sharing, anon.

I figured it's not an easy task. I've built websites for clients before, but never had one myself. I'm starting two right now and wanted to see how much I can make off of it. I've heard that 50k views a month (~1600 a day) is the least you'd need to make any significant money (though that depends on a lot of other factors, website category, where the users are in the world, etc). My goal is to make $1000 a month, but apparently that's not so easy.

Do you guys use react or anything with django? I am making a simple 2 app project, but am wondering if it's worth messing with something beyond basic templates. Learning everything as I go

>>102511351
Just learn how to write basic code in Java then move on to learning Spring

>>102511881
>My goal is to make $1000 a month, but apparently that's not so easy.
That was my goal as well, but yeah, it's really not easy. I guess the best advice is to not get discouraged, though. Even though this blog makes little money through adsense, I continue to work on it, although a lot slower than it used to be.

There are also so many other options you have with your own website. Adsense is just one.
So far I've made ebook sales, and affiliates as well. I've also made, at times, $500 to write articles about products. It's a grind, and you will learn a lot.

>>102512242
Anything else? Just a rough idea is fine

>>102512087
HTMX + Alpinejs fit very well with Django's templates. probably enough interactivity for 99% of web apps.

If you really need a separate SPA frontend for some reason, a good option would be Vue/Svelte + Django Ninja.

I think I am getting bored or something of doing Odin Project and Full Stack Open because my studying productivity went to shit. I stopped Odin around the React section to go to FSO if that matters. My goal was to try to work in web development. I know you need to know a lot to get a job nowadays but any recommendations of what to do?

Bros is it advisable to use java spring for backend in 2024?

>>102513823
From a technical perspective there are many better options than java in 2024: kotlin, go, C# just to name a few.

from a market perspective, yeah, java is still very popular unfortunately.

>>102513823
if you're looking for a job and companies in your area use it, i guess

File: 0c47fd0bbbc5baeb622f89c71(...).jpg (73 KB, 736x736)

73 KB JPG

>>102508368
rate my imageboard written in golang. what should i add to it?

https://achan.moe
https://github.com/SevensRequiem/achan.moe

>WGAY
thanks captcha

>>102508368
The easiest jobs in tech to automate with AI. Learn a trade job soon.

>>102513939
None of those alternatives are quite a replacement for Java.

>Kotlin
Literally just syntax sugar for Java that requires you to know Java in order to properly use it.
It was created because Java lacked several features back in the day, but ever since Oracle bought Java they started releasing constant updates and now there's very little Kotlin can do that Java can't. Very redundant.

>Go
Fair alternative depending on what you want.
The Go environment is mature, but not as rich, you'll not find a Spring alternative in the Go ecosystem.

>C#
Everybody already said this: C# is Microsoft's Java.
You can run .NET Core in any OS, yes, but not all libraries are guaranteed to run in different OS, and the dev tools are miserable outside Windows.
Great environment if your team made the compromise of working exclusively with Microsoft, otherwise not viable at all.

>>102514314
have my IP, on the house

File: Fed-Chair-Jerome-Powell-1.jpg (44 KB, 931x523)

44 KB JPG

>>102511351
Your policy making gotta be data driven and willing to change your mind
https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#hw=ph&test=fortune&section=data-r22

>>102514386
nta but how do I learned Spring/Spring Boot without being overwhelmed by all the goddamn FizzBuzzFooBarFactoryBeanInterface and XML bullshit? always makes my head spin. All that ceremony and excess of abstractions sounds reasonable in a big enough team but otherwise it just seems pointless and makes me hate backend.

god I wish there were more Go jobs.
> you'll not find a Spring alternative in the Go ecosystem
because the community doesn't want it. They scoff at any attempt to build a "batteries-included" framework because they'd rather write boilerplate themselves than deal with the overwhelming shit I mentioned above. I'm still not sure if they're right 2bh. Either way, sadly, I don't see Go much outside of DevOps roles. Even the trendy startups hate it now, especially since Rust became their darling

>>102514324
Backend shit is way more automatable than frontend
>wraps your database in rest api

>>102514744
I've never seen anyone working with Rust IRL, the noise comes mostly from some really vocal Rust evangelists on the internet.

>>102515115
big tech, Cloudflare, and some YC-funded startups use it. they also LOVE linking retarded articles on "why I switched from Go to Rust" which are usually 90% excuses and nonsense to justify their massive time/money sink into new tech

>>102508475
>why do people say aws vs vps as if ec2 doesn't exist
Because EC2 is crazy expensive, and only worth it if you combine it with other AWS services. You get low latency database connections and a easy to use access rules, etc.
But you can get much much much cheaper VPS by buying from anyone but the big cloud providers.

>>102513939
you are retarded

Work: done
Code: committed
Commits: pushed

>>102508368
>OP is the worst language & framework combo in webshit

Hey hey webshitters. Got an assignment to create a backend and come up with an idea for it, I'm thinking of using Go(never used it before), but I have no idea what to make and I don't want make another boring ecommerce slop. Any suggestions?

>>102516018
>Any suggestions?
do your own homework, faggot

help me choose between two camps for solo webdev. Batteries included or lightweight?
>lightweight
for this I'm considering Go+stdlib, TS+Hono, or Python+FastAPI.
I'm kind of scared of fucking something up when the framework is doing less for me. But it feels like it's less shit to learn so more time actually building stuff right?
>batteries included
for this I'm considering .NET or Rails
Used .NET at work and it wasn't bad although a bit overwhelming sometimes with the abstractions. Still much easier than Spring Boot and its bean AOP word salad.
many people insist that Rails is the most retard proof productivity enhancer, but is that still true if I've never used Ruby in my life? also there don't seem to be any RoR jobs anymore so less of a resume boost. But I'm sure I care much about webshit job prospects at this point, I'm getting rejected anyway

>>102516018
Is AltaVista broken?

>>102516165
There is a third camp I would strongly suggest: "Fuck off we're full".

>>102512343
Thanks a lot mate

what hosting provider do you guys use?

>>102502914
neovim has been my daily driver for over 3 years now
>I'm not using neovim because Debian (my OS) provides an old version which doesn't support some plugins.
I'm pretty sure PPA has the latest version

>>102516018
some anon in here made a library for code snippets and such, cool shit, with syntax highlighting, I liked the idea

Are there any good large language model coding assistants for javascript/typescript and web dev? What would be the best at the moment? I have been trying most commercial ones, but they have me going in circles. I'm wondering how much of it is a skill issue on my part and how much a lot of models are more trained at being good in Python due to most benchmarks being in Python.

>>102519423
>skill issue on my part
my guess is that you're not "asking the right question" to the AI overmind, which is normal for a newbie

>>102519467
That would make sense, thank you.

>>102513823
Of course it is. Despite what Reddit and stack overflow says, it’s one of the most used language for backend on the market


>> 102513939
Go is a fine language for microservices, but for bigger stuff you need a language like Java or C#. Kotlin is imho redundant. Latest Java version improved the language so much that I don’t see why would I use Kotlin over Java.

>>102519495
my copilot just expired ;_;, it was really good, chatgpt has gotten better as well, I mostly use it to figure out just bits that I struggle with, mostly, just finding a more elegant solution than nested for loops that are so infamously frowned upon, don't take that as an axiom, I'm kind of a plumber coder, so if I have a part that I want to improve I ask about that part specifically and I usually get good results after some tinkering, it's rare to get what you want on your first try

what would you say you struggle with the most in your programming?

File: 1711771364622234.png (325 KB, 1024x1024)

325 KB PNG

>>102508368
first for ruby

>>102519742
j e j

I was adding a feature and I somehow managed to do it first try

Okay there was a very small bug I fixed but then it just worked. Normally I have to go back and forth fixing bugs but it just fucking worked.

>>102520041
gj mate

>>102519605
Wrapping my head around some basic framework related concepts I guess, I'm too used to working in more interactive notebooks where you can see the result of each function immediately. So it's probably just a learning curve. I'm trying to do something with Remix and Lexical where there are multiple text editors are on a page, but I'm getting lost with the "correct ways" to fetch data, manage state and all the rest. It feels less concrete than what I'm used to. It's probably just a question of keeping trying until I understand enough to ask better questions, and finding better ways to debug.

>>102520911
sounds like you need to do some research then, maybe checking public github repos with the technologies can help you if you're lucky enough to find one with good practices and good code

>>102521057
Yeah, good idea, that's what I'm doing.

>>102508368
i like django but i'm using now nestjs. am i right to claim it is a good choice for later on decoupling a monolith into smaller (micro)services?

I built UI with sveltekit and serve API through Go. Is this the most retarded stack ever?

Is a second hand business laptop from eBay good enough for web dev?

If it has 16 gigs of RAM it should be fine, right?

Are there any good VPS providers who support FreeBSD natively? You can install it on Hetzner, but it's hardly first class and I don't want to have to deal with that.

>>102522653
Yes, it's fine. I use 12mb, could be better, but works. 16mb works for webdev.

>>102508368
Django has a steep learning curve but good god once you know how to use it, it's super fucking nice

>>102523292
>Django
ISHYDDT

>>102523433
what's wrong with it?

Is Django good if I'm trying to set up a porn website?

>>102522828
what's wrong with troonix?

>>102510617
>Django is based but it needs a built-in queue system ASAP
Use celery

will I hate Rails if I hated Django (haven't touched it since 2018)?
and do I need to actually know Ruby to use Rails effectively? it kinda seems like a worse Python but idk

>>102524572
I don't want to use troonix

>>102516165
So I have direct experience with this.

I started with Go, reading the books Let's Go and Let's Go Further. Not only will you learn Go along the way (very simple language), you'll learn how parts of the back end are built from scratch. What everything is, what you need, things to consider, security concerns, project structure, etc. Basically, you'll learn the unknown unknowns in depth, but not boring theory level in depth.

This will also make you want to use a batteries included framework, and language that doesn't just use a for loop for everything. Every time I sat down to start a project I was already excited to build just thinking about the upcoming tedium was enough to sap any motivation I had. So I tried a few frameworks, and landed on Rails. Rails handles 100% of the boilerplate for you. You are essentially only writing business logic for the application. Ruby is the most convenient language I've ever used, and I've stuck my dick in a lot of them. I can't say for sure, but if I'd done it in Go and stuck through to the end it would have probably taken me 6-9+ months, or maybe even longer. It's about 3k LOC (excluding styles/framework code), and if it were in Go it very likely would have been around 12-15k.

tl;dr do both

>>102522828
I never used BSD, but Vultr provides it officially.

>>102508368
rel="noreferrer"
Should I only use this on links that lead to other places? Or should I use this for everything, even links within my site?

File: 1708770712060413.png (83 KB, 269x766)

83 KB PNG

hey i improved your logo

File: 1699545703523941.png (7 KB, 800x300)

7 KB PNG

>>102526617
Yeah, it actually is an improvement.

PHP > Dj ango

>>102526203
how long did it take you to learn Ruby? did you jump directly into Rails or did you learn Ruby properly first?

File: 1408070350501.png (911 KB, 1280x768)

911 KB PNG

>Seek help with library/framework
>Lots of articles that have no date and do not list what version of the library/framework they are talking about
>article points out to a thing that has been depreciated or is flat out incompatible

>>102530635
bro your chatgpt/documentation?

File: Screenshot 2024-09-24 170158.png (6 KB, 408x123)

6 KB PNG

>>102508368
Is there a solution to avoid multiple ../ like in picrel?

I was thinking of just uploading the images to a separate image hosting site, then making an external link to it. But what if the hosting site goes down or they archive my image?

>>102531035
yes, the classic PATH variable, it contains the absolute path to the root of your directory
so it'd be something like
PATH/images

File: 1000021988.jpg (28 KB, 750x422)

28 KB JPG

The only reason I became a react developer is because the name and the logo are cool

Wait, so I can't use my spring boot app as resource server with google credentials as authorization server?
Do I need to create a seperate authorization server and use it as identity broker for Google social login?
If so then should I use spring authorization server or keycloack?

File: file.jpg (123 KB, 1623x919)

123 KB JPG

lets say I'm trying to make a very basic repl/code editor where JS code can actually be executed.
obviously I'd use something like codemirror or monaco for the text editor on the left, but how should I go about executing it and getting output on the right? when briefly googling it everyone makes it sound like you're going to kill puppies if you allow users to execute JS locally in your site that they wrote themselves, but I don't understand why. in my use case this is entirely client side, no JS they ever write could ever harm me or crash my site, so can't I just do something like output = eval(userWrittenCodeString) and call it a day?

File: load.png (85 KB, 934x686)

85 KB PNG

Can someone please give me the complete code for a webpage that lets visitors upload a pic into the "pics" directory, while also showing all loaded pics in the same page.
I swear to God it's impossible to learn how the ungodly abominations known as HTML and PHP work, even using guides. Take a look at pic related. it says "the code for uploading a file", but WHERE the fuck is that code supposed to be?
I see no "uploading" there. I only see a bunch of definitions and echoing some strings, but no action being performed at all.
I also never saw a proper explaination of what the "action" attribute of <form> exactly means or does; does it save something into a file? Does it execute a function?

>>102530635
Literally vue

>>102508368
I made a game using python and django: https://ponywar.com/
First project. Self-taught. It's dog shit, but it's something. Or so I dare to think. Please roast me.

File: .png (588 KB, 2177x1793)

588 KB PNG

>>102531525
here you go anon, takes less than 100 loc

https://pastebin.com/SsNB3HWv

>>102532631
and to run it:
- copy the pastebin contents to an index.php file
- create an upload folder
- run "php -S localhost:8000"

>>102530366
I did the language tour, read the main site's kind of primer on it, and did the Ruby Koans which teach the language's quirks and features. I'd recommend that first because without knowing basic stuff like parenthesis are optional it will make rails "magic" look like actual magic because helper methods will just look like a chain of random nonsense. You can also method chain anything, and call a method on anything. If you know one language well, picking it up should be very easy.

so i build my vite frontend and get my static bundle shat out into /dist, then i can serve the dist folder with

express.static

. cool, works fine for index.html, but if i want to navigate to a new page that isnt just

hostname.tld/

i need to specify .html in the url for express to resolve the request to one files in /dist. which then means i need to write routes for all of them, making the express.static shit only useful for

/dist/assets

. why? what gives?

>>102532933
Yeah because you're running a single-page-app.

app.get('*', (req, res) => {
    res.sendFile(path.join(__dirname, 'dist', 'index.html'));
});

fwiw, I'd be considering running a Vite server or moving to next.js so that you can take advantage of using server code in your react components.

>>102531195
>checks react logo
aren't you afraid of radiation poisoning though?

>>102531195
same desu

File: Screenshot 2024-09-24 at (...).jpg (59 KB, 1434x448)

59 KB JPG

Please help a retard out, I have a Linux server at Hetzner, with a basic Nginx configuration on it, I've set up a LB to point to the server. HTTP is all OK, the application returns the page as expected, but HTTPS requests aren't going through at all. I don't even have a log in the access logs, and error logs are empty.

Looking up with curl I get "Connection refused" on both IPv6 and IPv4, looks like HTTPS isn't hitting the server at all even though I have the LB set up correctly, starting to get out of ideas on that one...

In React, is it acceptable to use a ref to manipulate an input's value, rather than make it a controlled input?

I don't want a controlled input because then it re-renders with every key press

>>102535512
Sure

>>102534897
nevermind, my DNS config was still pointing to the server instead of the LB

>>102535635
Cool. If I remember right the React docs say that you should minimise the "escape hatch" of useRef, but whatever

when my server crashes or shutdowns there are "shm" and "wal" files still up from sqlite. is this safe or does this indicate any error in how sqlite is handled by my server?

>>102532965
idk if id call it an spa because its just vanilla js. i figured out i can just make directories in my client dir named as whatever i want the url to be and drop an index.html in there, then edit rollupOptions in vite.config.js to include them and they all get built to dist and magically work with express.

i was going to recursively crawl the dist dir and check if a file ends in .html and then create a route for it, but id still need to edit rollupOptions for html files in dirs anyways so i guess this is simpler.

File: whatthehell.jpg (12 KB, 172x132)

12 KB JPG

>>102532631
Thanks anon, but
>all those fucking lines of code for something so trivial as a simple pic loader and displayer
Jesus fucking Christ. No wonder people use frameworks. HTML, CSS, Javascript and PHP are a scourge upon mankind. The entire Internet needs to be razed to the ground and rebuilt from scratch.

>>102537590
>No wonder people use frameworks
JS framework for frontend + PHP API for backend is pretty good

File: 1000021232.jpg (21 KB, 526x537)

21 KB JPG

>>102534042
Based surface-level-information-based decision making bro

I want to host my Node.js application on a barebone Linux machine, just a Cloud instance over Hetzner.
I know how to setup a basic firewall and load balancer, but is that relatively secure of a setup? I kind of know how to maintain a Linux system but I'm wondering if it's unrealistic, any guide or resource to recommend?

PHP just makes me think "why"

To this day I still don't fully comprehend MVC.
What's even the difference between a controller and model?

Until some time ago I believed that the model is where you map your database tables to classes, but then I learnt that ORM models are not MVC models and a lot of people are doing it wrong, and now I just don't know anything anymore.

>>102537590
>We need frameworks and third party dependencies because an upload function is too complex to me
You do realize the reason so many people hate web dev is because of your mentality, right?

Why is it that almost all web design is the same? Are they teaching people to be the same like one another? Shouldn’t web design be broken down into styles rather than one set standard? Any books I can learn for good web design

Is there a website builder out there where I won't have to deal with hosting/setup, but will still allow me to use custom HTML/CSS/JS code?

>>102519423
>Are there any good large language model coding assistants for javascript/typescript and web dev?
I had great success with ChatGPT. But I use it to get started or make a minor logic change, then usually in React.
For example, setup this backend queuing library for me.
Or, creat a component that looks like X and can do Y, with two input forms for A and B using Tailwind and Typescript.
Or, add a way to call this endpoint every 15 seconds in this component given A and B is true.

It helps me a lot especially on the frontend to get started. It is very helpful when I need to get a new component up and running, or style something that's already there. But anything that requires some type of logic, then it usually perform very poorly.

Been learning how flex boxes work and it got me wondering why the fuck do we need bloated shit like Bootstrap or Tailwind

>>102508368
I'm a react front end guy..

What benefits could bring me the time and effort of learning php/laravel?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>102540786
You can jump from being a front end to a full stack dev. You can build complete apps, not just the front.

>>102540829
Anon...
I think the post above is asking specifically about Laravel, not backend in general.
You don't nee to tell him that the point of learning backed is that you can build a backend.

>>102521698
>(micro)services
Micro services are technical dept.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LcJKxPXYudE

>>102540786

A lot of the stuff you'll learn with php/laravel are pretty universal, so off the top of my head:

- Queues, which are the backbone of a lot of full stack web applications to orchestrate tasks, retry them if they fail (e.g. sending through an email to a user)
- using ORMs. You may be used to Drizzle or prisma
- Learning about MVC (which Django, Ruby on Rails and Laravel use)
- Email templating, and template engines in general (Laravel has Blade templates. Node.js also has a few libs for template engines like ejs/handlebars)
- Interacting with services using a "driver" approach, i.e. switching between S3 storage and the filesystem, or switching the mailing between your service provider and local is just a single line change.
- Using a REPL to interact with your backend (php artisan tinker), so that you can do simple stuff like pull records out of the database or test bits of code
- Learning about migrations & seeders to manage your database (RoR/django has equivalents of these)
- Using unit testing to test your API endpoints (actually more useful/productive over using a REST client like Postman/Insomnia/Bruno)
- Using a KV store like Redis for doing your queues, or caching queries, or even persisting data
- Running a search engine (Laravel Scout) with MeiliSearch, Typesense or Agolia
- Running cron jobs using the laravel scheduler (to do stuff like send out emails to users at a specific time perhaps)
- Using a Docker compose stack with their "Laravel Sail" preconfigured setup, which may give you some docker experience.

>>102540786
better learn express or nest since you already know js/ts with react

>>102508368
is redux still used? or should I use something like zustand?

>>102542683
It's used less, but is still quite useful for complex applications. I'd only consider using Redux for its more complex use cases (e.g. if you're using middleware sagas, multiple stores / slices).

Zustand is pretty good, but you'll just need to figure out how to load in the initial data (e.g. through context providers) if you're going to be using it with server rendering.

>>102511351
give masonite a try. it's laravel essentially but in python.

>>102531498
>when briefly googling it everyone makes it sound like you're going to kill puppies if you allow users to execute JS locally in your site
The user can just run JS in the browser console, so I don't see why this should be a problem.
But if you execute it on a remote sever, you want to sandbox it. There are OSS options for this. You can see the NeetCode.io guys video about how he made his website and he mentions which sandboxing library he used.

File: 1548776880085.png (186 KB, 367x308)

186 KB PNG

My react app is shit
https://codepen.io/AyDotEfDot/pen/poXBpab
It's not even rendering and I can't explain why. I know it has other issues but if I can not see it and use it I can't debug it properly
Help! I been at this all month

>>102538426
>I know how to setup a basic firewall and load balancer, but is that relatively secure of a setup?
Yes, just make sure anyone can only access the machine/VPS through SSH and using an SSH key, do not allow passwords.

So block all incoming ports except the port you use for SSH, HTTP and HTTPS and disable SSH password login and you should be good.

>>102542683
I have been using Jotai, and it is pretty nice and very easy to use.
It has the same interface as useState() (for the basic use case) but the state becomes global. If you don't want global state then just use useState. I only had a few issues where multiple components were updating the state simultaneously and that caused some issues, but usually it has been great to use and very simple.

>>102544087
thanks

>>102539912
>but then I learnt that ORM models are not MVC models and a lot of people are doing it wrong, and now I just don't know anything anymore.
they're "doing it wrong" because it's a retarded abstraction. Like in Java or C#, you have a "plain Java object" or "plain C# object" that's the model, and a "db interface object" that actually does the ORM queries. Why? muh separation of concerns, even though these concerns aren't ever really separated. And when you tell the design pattern nerds how nonsensical it is, you'll get some braindead regurgitated excuse about unit tests and mocking.
keep in mind MVC is one of the more decent design patterns btw. It sucks and it's also as good as it gets, cause every other attempt (see; MVVM) is even worse. So don't think too hard about it

>>102544366
You are correct, that is a dumb abstraction. ORMs suck.
The correct abstraction is of course not on the object level, but on the query. A single class for every query that is. That is how you bridge the gap from the db to your java code.

>>102544459
>ORMs suck
Imagine you're a small startup though, and you're hiring junior devs because that's all you can afford - you don't want them accidentally writing SQL injection bugs. So it's probably safer to use an ORM and you can always optimise any queries that take a long time, since many ORMs have methods for submitting raw SQL.

>>102544102
You are importing react-dom 17.02, createRoot is from react-dom 18. useState is messed up too. I recommend setting up a React project using Vite on Stackblitz

>>102544102
Sir, I gave you a working example in a previous thread when you posted this

>>102540201
Web design tends to converge because certain patterns just work better from a human psychological standpoint. Most design courses will talk about Gestalt Psychology and other similar topics.

>>102545072
That's not a real issue.
Every goddamn SQL driver has a function to sanitize the inputs before executing the query, SQL injections can be avoided just as easily without an ORM.

>>102547349
Junior devs might avoid doing it the right way though, because they're junior

If ORMs were really so bad then nobody would use them, but they are very widely used

I do like just writing SQL myself (I've been doing that with Go) but I can see why ORMs get used

>>102540201
they use the same ui, just like indians on dribbble, you can get it for free or pay for it, thats why all(97%) dashboards looks the same

socrates didn't write anything

>>102544104
Got it, thanks.

>>102540786
I got my current position as a React guy because the CTO liked the fact I also had backend knowledge, now I'm doing both and I get paid like a senior backend.
Backend is very trivial to learn, you can get started quickly and even learn some devops in just a few week-ends, and the impact on your job security and salary is significant.

I just ran my bash alias to open all the tabs I usually browse.
I started typing another alias and realized the fact, then hit Ctrl + backspace, and it deleted the whole sentence I typed.
Moral of the story, newbies will think the pot of gold is in the newest of the newienewst framework of the microsecond. But at the very leas for me, the pot of gold is in what the boomer programmers left for us as inheritance.

>>102548212
nta, how's the stress though

>>102548966
My company makes sure no employee is overloaded, I help with the backend when we have a need for it. Stress is more than manageable.
Backend is also saner than frontend.

>>102549051
fair enough

sheeeeit, as I was telling you, the old to the new
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-grid-3/

>>102546517
changed the statement to

import ReactDOM from "https://esm.sh/react-dom";

nothing works yet. I will fix the issues with useState once this is solved
>>102546673
I won't learn anything just by copy and pasting some one else's code

Which is objectively the best OS for web dev:
>Windows
>MacOS
>GNU/Linux
>Something else
I'm coming from a Mac but I need a new computer and I might get a regular PC and put Linux on it.

>>102548212
Maybe I'm a branlet but.. I feel that front end with react is hard.. are you telling me that back end with node and express for example is easier and relatively fast to learn for me as a front end?

Why are ORMs so popular still? I understand their place in frameworks like rails and laravel. But I recently tried using drizzle and I ended up just taking it out and using straight sql and I’m glad I did.

>>102508368
this django shit reminds me of java vaadin
cringe af

>>102550625
In a lot of ways yes, it’s more simple. I would learn the basics by building a simple blog with admin area in express.js, this will cover the basics of most backend topics like http, db, templates(use ejs), auth, and basic security like csrf. Once you’re done and you feel like you really understand what’s going on move on to remix or next which you’ll like more coming from a frontend background.

>>102550818
Also try to use as few library’s as possible that way you actually learn and don’t abstract everything away. For instance don’t use passport.js for auth, code your own username/password auth with hashing.

>>102550867
nta, but imo it should be the other way around, use abstraction, then write your own abstraction cause you'll see good patterns and ideas, or whatever you do, write your own after using abstractions

>>102550914
I agree with writing your own after you learn how to do it without but if you jump into using something like passport.js right away you won’t actually understand what it’s doing for you and you won’t leave with a good understanding of sessions or password hashing etc.

>>102550991
>you won’t leave with a good understanding of sessions or password hashing etc.
true, but you'll understand the flow and practices that you should use when implementing your own

>>102551001
I agree but that should come after learning the fundamentals that way you don’t end up with gaps of understanding.

>>102540114
>You do realize the reason so many people hate web dev is because of your mentality, right?
No, it's precisely the opposite, the reason people hate web dev because of this "Because I suffered to learn these garbage languages, then you must suffer too!" elitarist mentality.

>>102551061
the way I see it, you'd implement your own stuff, then abstractions and then back to implementing your own, the last two steps are essential though

>>102551079
>>102540114
I disagree with you both. People hate it because it’s hard and takes effort. It might seem easy at first depending on your approach/tooling but you will reach a point where it becomes incredibly difficult at which point most people burn out.

>>102542595
why not just learn node/express instead of php laravel coming from front end?

>>102550733
OP here, I don't even use Django, I just wanted to add some variety to the OPs, and you can't deny that Django is a prominent tool in the industry

>>102508383
webshitters tend to get jobs and never come back to this hellhole.

>>102551568
there's plenty of emplyed devs here if you learn to mentally filter the plebs

>tech influencers are saying create a project with users to get a junior position
What are these guys smoking. The average dev that’s employed hasn’t even created projects with users.

>>102552012
>The average dev that’s employed hasn’t even created projects with users.
true, but the entry barrier is tough for people that only joined recently, as in little openings and many people applying

on a scale of "romantic thoughts" to "i have purchased a gun", how suicidal are you?

>>102553284
wouldn't you like to know? sorry datamining scum
S

File: file.png (17 KB, 649x106)

17 KB PNG

making youtube timestamping tool, I'm so confused

<div class="tsi-row"><button>-5</button><button>-1</button><a href="">00:12:20</a><button>+1</button><input><button></button></div>

function copyTimestamps() {
    let data = "";
    for (const row of document.querySelectorAll(".tsi-row")) {
        data += row.querySelector("a").textContent;
        data += " ";
        data += row.querySelector("input").value;
        data += "\n";
    }
    data += "\n";
    GM_setClipboard(data, "text/plain")
}

How come the text I get in clipboard is just timestamps, without comments:
00:00:02
00:12:20
00:22:36

How do I get it with comments?

do you dream in code, /wdg/?

>>102553760
i code in dream

>>102553756
never mind, it was because of a typo somewhere else

>>102553760
Sometimes, but they are not pleasant.
If I dream about code it's because I had a very frustrating day of work.

>>102514744
>because they'd rather write boilerplate themselves
What do you expect from people who have been mind-broken into thinking that manually checking every single possibly nil value for nil is acceptable in 2024

Can anyone here tell me why not to use jquery's .serialize() when making forms? Yes jquery sucks and is awful but tell me why its awful. From what I know

>jquery is just a jacascript library
>jquery is an obsolete library
>vanilla js is more maintainable and more efficient

>>102547988
Just be careful. If you use Docker, it will open the ports that you specify to to accessible from outside the container. Even if your software firewall blocks the port, Docker will force the port open.
If you make the port open from outside the container (the "-p <HOST_PORT>:<CONTAINER_PORT>" flag),, then you should specify which URL the port is open for, for example "localhost:<PORT>", then you should be fine.

>>102540201
>Why do all newspapers look the same?
Because it is easier to read, use and navigate something that's familiar. If you have seen something hundreds or thousands of times before, then you know how to use it.
Being different can make you stand out, being too different and people will avoid you.

>>102545072
>>102547441
so add the sanitization yourself? it's a fucking function call. If your juniors are too retarded to do this just don't give them SQL tickets
>If ORMs were really so bad then nobody would use them, but they are very widely used
this brainlet mentality is why the modern tech industry is such a shitshow.
>I do like just writing SQL myself (I've been doing that with Go) but I can see why ORMs get used
No you can't. You just shrug and fall for the appeal to popularity fallacy. Stop this.

>>102554327
they were specifically mind-broken by the mess of "enterprise" abstractions. All the stupid design decisions like lack of enums and no generics until 2022 made them go "eh I've seen worse, whatever" cause they really have seen worse.

>>102553760
one time i dreamed i was working on a ruby on rails project. i've never used rails before.

>>102553760
Yes I’ve solved hard(for me) problems and in dreams.

I’m trying to learn typescript finally. It annoys me how there’s often many ways to do certain things though. Are there any open “styleguides” or do you just do whatever you feel like at the moment? Also any other good resources besides the official docs and Matt Pococks free stuff?

Is PHP an alternative to Js or a competitor? I’ve always thought they didn’t compete in functionality

>>102556495
It’s an alternative to server-side js like node.js but not client-side js like react. You couldn’t build something like Google maps in php without client-side javascript, but you could build something like old school Facebook or Twitter without JS.

>>102552012
These zoomerjeets brought it on themselves. Used to be just having a github made you stand out. But these fuckin zoomers make projects that look real in their github and star each other.

The only way to tell is by looking at the issues section. But that will be faked too.

>>102557350
>zoomers are doing a huge github conspiracy to get... entry level jobs
Calm down, anon.

>>102556495
JS does everything now. I've done bare metal in JS. All hail JS.

File: messages.png (34 KB, 728x576)

34 KB PNG

So I am building a very basic chat app. There is a lobby chat where all users can type and send messages and there is also private chatting.

I'm having issues with getting private chatting to work.. when a user opens up a private message with another user there is a "privateMessages" array that gets created and stored in the database inside that users document and inside of that array is an object that contains all the information about that private message (who the sender is, who the receiver is, the conversation ID, and an array for messages between both users).

What I am trying to do is when a user sends a message I want to access that specific object by the conversation_id and then store the user's message inside of the message array that is inside of the same object as conversation_id.

My problem is that I am having a very hard time on how to do this. So I want to find the user document that matches the conversation_id because that will be unique to that specific private message. Once I have identified that, how do I go about access the sibling key "messages"?

I am using Node for this. Again, I've never used Mongo before but I am fumbling my way through it and have gotten far. I've also only ever used a database maybe twice, so I totally understand if I've made things harder for myself by designing my database the way I did.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Some things I've tried (just some dummy code to try and get SOMETHING inside of the message array)..

Meteor.users.update(
      {conversation_id: convoId},
      {
        $set: {
          "privateMessages.$.messages": 'test'
        }
      }
    )

>>102557437
I dont know about outside but this is something i witnessed in jeetland and verified.
There are even companies that take money to give you internship that does real projects to put on your github
t. Had to hire zoomerjeets in '21

>>102557556
i mean a document db is not well suited for this at all as you've discovered.

storing a chat between two users redundantly in two documents you have to maintain is a bad design.

imo you should create a new document for each private conversation that stores the ids for both participants and and stores the messages in a queue so that the first X elements you pop off are the most recent that you'd use to render, and you'd pop more off based on a pointer the client returns as they scroll down to load more.

>>102557666
Thank you anon and you are correct this is getting very shitty very fast.

I think your way is easier. I'm about to see how much work I need to undo in order to implement your suggestion of storing the private messages in their own document

>>102557684
it shouldn't take much of anything since you dont have anything to speak of. the challenge will be you need to store a list of convo IDs in your user document that the user is a participant in so you can look up those chats directly.

relational dbs are much better for everything you are trying to do and i'd suggest just rewriting with sqlite to start.

Building an app on Urbit rn

Join Urbit group at ~lasbyt-wordel/mnemosyne

>>102557743
thank you anon you were right. It is much easier just to use a separate db for the private messages. I'm already making better progress and it's way more simple and straight forward.

And it wasn't much work at all like you said.

>>102554384
>tell me why its awful
It is not. The problem is that people like you import the whole fucking thing just because of incompetence: You cannot into vanilla js and therefore keep reinventing the same shit again and again. What you actually want is this

function serializeDropInReplacement(form) {
  return new URLSearchParams(new FormData(form)).toString()
}

One could argue that this should be part of the stdlib of js in some way, but given the fact that everybody who is doing js should know SearchParams and FormData anyways...

>>102553760
>do you dream in code, /wdg/?
More like the opposite.
I dream of starting a farm, far away from computers when I code.

>>102555402
I recommend you to use and ask some coding AI helper, like ChatGPT for how to do stuff. It can help you get started if you don't have any seniors around you to show you how to do it.

I have not found any good resources to teach you how to use TS.
TS is pretty flexible, it has or (|) and "and" (&) and can also do a "if variable name X has value Y, then it is type A, otherwise it is type B" stuff as well.

Just start using it, use the basics like say if a variable is a string or number, and for objects you can define an interface and specify which names and their corresponding value type.

Just start using it and learn as you go is my recommendation.

>>102555402
>>102559150
wtf are you guys talking about
it took me 1 second to google and find this https://www.typescriptlang.org/docs/handbook/intro.html

>>102554384
jquery isn't bad, but it was made in a time where browser/ecma standards weren't a thing. jquery was one of the first libs that included query selectors. So in that sense it was actually pretty great. Less needed nowadays but still kind of useful.

>>102559036
The guy who made neofetch claims he's taken up farming

https://github.com/dylanaraps

Isn't it wild that since the Federal Reserve raised the interest rates to 5% we haven't been blessed with a new javascript framework?

File: logo.png (111 KB, 1900x572)

111 KB PNG

>>102560616
New JS frameworks are unnecessary when Preact exists

>>102561661
Solid is preact but smaller

>trying to learn js
>spend months following along with YouTube tutorials
>still feel clueless and confused
>stop watching YouTube tutorial slop
>concentrate on fundamentals
>months go by
>feeling pretty good about what I learned
>watch some YouTube tutorials again to get some ideas
>realize these people are constantly fucking up basic shit
>constantly misusing built-in methods
>spaghetti code everywhere with little regard for separation of concerns or architecture in general
I had no idea it was this bad. These people are actual grifters stapling together premade stuff and then passing it off like they're experts.

>>102562429
Wait until you realize that 90% of youtube tutorials are just the getting started of the documentation.

>>102561661
What is Preact? It is some kind of React clone?

>>102562429
>These people
Not only "these" people. Most seniors are like this. Somehow this whole concept of a dynamic language which you can simply execute on f5 has led to absolute dogshit developers. They constantly reinvent the wheel with yet another fucking framework instead of writing simple code instead.

>>102508368
why 4chan have no java thread

>>102563105
Please sir

>>102562429
It gets really bad when you look up webdev YT channels. They're extremely clickbaity with titles like "Stop making THESE essential mistakes when (doing x)" or "5 most essential things you NEED to be using in your code"

Then you click the video and there's maybe 1 valuable tip but the rest are extremely obvious, low-effort content filler for length padding.

It's pretty cool that Deno can compile JavaScript to a standalone executable, but it sucks that a simple hello world program is 83 MB big. I guess it contains the whole Deno runtime

>>102555409

How do you fight this stuff? Ada is a bitch

What's the best business meta for hosting WordPress pages for clients? Currently, I don't do any hosting at all but feel I'm missing out on an opportunity.

I'm thinking of renting a high speed VPS in Hetzner and hosting many WP sites on it, but not sure if it's the best approach. Any ideas?

>>102565218
You register your company in a tax haven outside the US.

But if you want to be compliant:
Use correct html tags especially <nav> <section> <article>
Use <label> on forms
If an image has a meaning and isn't purely decorative use an alt text.
Use tabindex for navigation and buttons
Use correct heading hierarchy

Also isn't disabled americans a tautology?

>>102565726
You don't want to go down that path trust me, the few bucks aren't worth it. The customer is responsible for the hosting and domain name but if you really want yes you rent a $20 VPS.

>>102532631
cool, I didn't like the beggars response. So you get a cool from me :D

>>102562429
Yeah it's really terrible, older devs often think it's easier to learn than ever but the information out there is so bad and in excess that when you don't know anything you'll likely just find a grifter who wants ad money. I once watched a random rust video and it was just the guy reading sneakily copying the documentation without any understanding of the language.
I believe that back in the day you'd go to the library or something, find a book like "building basic things in BASIC" or something and it would actually teach you. Torvalds started in BASIC, so did Blow, and probably a million more good programmers in their 40s and 50s. Carmack likely too considering he stole apple II's as a kid.
Today a kid trying to learn will search on youtube "how to make a video game" and you'll get a guy going
>hello, so welcome, so first you install java and write system out print and print "hello" and then you import a library, now you make a function and the function will open a window and now we start the game loop....
so the kid interested in computers gives up

File: file-20230529-29-7ypy4t.jpg (382 KB, 1920x1279)

382 KB JPG

>>102565218
Not my problem

JavaScript is literally the only programming language you need:

Desktop apps:
>Electron
Phone apps:
>React Native
Server apps:
>Node/Deno/Bun
Command-line apps:
>Compile JS with Deno
Website front-ends:
>Native JS of course

>>102568786
AI Apps
>n/a
Scientific simulations
>n/a
Sysadmin
>n/a

no thanks, I'll stick with a strongly typed language like Python

How can I safely modify a file being served by Nginx?

>>102566969
Programming is not that complicated but going head first into the average youtube react tutorial is going to make any kid into a bad programmer real fast. I'm focused on webdev, so I'm not sure what the ecosystem is like for embedded or game dev but if its anything like what I've encountered these kids are going to hit a wall hard and either give up or mimic the extremely sloppy way most of these guys bang out code without understanding or caring about how what they are doing actually works.

I have a little sissy macbook air m1 with 8gb ram, is docker out of the question?

>>102557962
wow a chad building on urbit

>>102566203
I imagine it's not worth it because you have to deal with customers not paying their hosting each month/year?

I was thinking of installing a small CP, like ApisCP, giving them limited access to just their files, and I've yet to figure out what if someone doesn't pay.

I'm curious about the reasons you don't like this tho.

Lads is it worth doing a website in Go if it's just a static site showcasing some products that won't (likely, or at least rarely) change? Or should I go just pure CSS+HTML?

File: 1714594029240284_crt_animation.gif (1.08 MB, 606x471)

1.08 MB GIF

I made a simple web page that applies a CRT monitor effect to images.
It can generate animated gifs also.
The variables are all adjustable.

crt-aesthetic.pages.dev

Stack: html, javascript, tailwind, and cloudflare pages for free static page hosting.

Working on a bunch of other ideas. Hopefully will make some money eventually.

>>102561661
this is how my farts sound

>>102572798
>The variables are all adjustable.


this is actually very cool. I like it.

File: american-psycho-patrick-b(...).gif (120 KB, 212x90)

120 KB GIF

>>102572798
>Working on a bunch of other ideas

It never began https://dev.to/ryansolid/web-components-are-not-the-future-48bh

>>102573234
This entire article feels AI generated. Maybe its just the pictures, but that feeling leaks into the words.

>>102573913
Thats the creator of solidJs he wouldnt do that
https://dev.to/this-is-learning/components-are-pure-overhead-hpm

>>102508368
I want to get into cloud engineering or site reliability. I currently have one and a half year of experience as a software dev.

What do I do? Do I get a certification or do I just do GitHub projects?

Asking since I am genuinely more interested in deployment. However even at work, the one Asian dude is also interested in the same thing, was given level two for the position I have, but still hasn't been given abilities to really mess with our Jenkins instance etc so there's not really a trajectory for it at my current job either.

>>102572604
Make an API in Go. Don't build a website in Go imo. I would rather you showcase a cool API made in Go since it is more of a backend language.

>>102510097
Craziest dude in porn ever

Captcha: XDANG0

>>102562429
Dude it's better that you realize this now.

Piecing it together yourself is hard with docs at times but it's a million times better than Tutorial Hell on YouTube.

There's a reason you don't see half of those dudes work for actual companies.

The only worthwhile ones are developer advocates but those are literal paid shills for companies, and not self fulfilling YouTuber grifters.

You're on your way to a good path of learning anon.

Reminds me that I should pick something up again since I've burned out recently.

>>102562429
have you ever heard of these things called books?

>>102566969
Agreed. Though to be fair, even back in the day (Millennial here), like even in the early 2000s, you really had to know someone to even get a semblance of what the fuck to do for anything programming related.

I remember really shitty Learn to program game stuff from Scholastic which was awful in hindsight.

I wish someone told me to literally look shit up on even the Internet at that time and maybe to focus on easy but older computer stuff and go from there.

Thing is no one told you things directly then.

I think the best approach nowadays is to fork some existing project on GitHub and add some kind of small functionality and go from there. There is so much open source stuff now, especially with game engines and open source games that I would have my mind blown as a kid.

I don't regret it because I think not knowing back then made it that much more mysterious etc.

>>102574327
But do you really have the time to go through everything? Even I would skim books nowadays because the time you get through it all, probably something has been updated anyway.

I think books are only good until you get the basics down and then it's time to hit the docs and build that first shitty project.

>>102574208
Curious for your guy's thoughts on this thanks

File: file.png (3 KB, 418x47)

3 KB PNG

>>102574349
i read this many pages before i went to work today

>>102574367
But did you practice every single example and did every exercise? Also what book and what language?