>>17269026
>Germans proceed to accelerate straight into a brick wall and eat shit
Good evening zergov

>>17269085
>The Germans didn't actually lose the battle of Kursk
This is a new low for Wehraboos

>>17269107
Retarded missinterpretation or just russian?

>>17269026
>Murder all the ideological fanatics during the night of the long knives
>"Why can't we get loyal spies and admins???"

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>>17269026
Not the mention the Germans had already lost the war by that point.
The war was a likely loss when Barbarossa failed, and a certain loss with the success of Uranus. Kursk was entirely futile, just like the rest of Germany's war effort.

OP has a point.
German intelligence was absolutely abyssmal during ww2, as was their deception.
Allies were practically reading every message and often had complete knowledge of every plan.
Meanwhile the Germans catastrophically failed at every level to gain intel on the enemy. They had completely inaccurate intel on the Soviet divisons for Barbarossa, they were completely in the blind on Overlord and Bagration.

Meanwhile the allies often had so accurate intel, they many times refused to believe that it was true, and often overestimated the Germans.
The Soviets for example had complete intel on Barbarossa, down to the last minute. They failed to act on this intel almost solely because of Stalin, but it still doesnt change the fact that German deception completely failed to conceal Barbarossa on the same level as Soviet maskirovka

>>17269155
I dont think there even was a follow-up plan on Citadel had it succeeded. What were they going to do?
It's not like they were going to muster manpower and resources for a second 2000 km advance back down to the Caucasus or Moscow.
Barbarossa rested on the sole assumption that the Soviet state would collapse from the opening blow, and Case Blue rested on the sole assumption that the Red Army was on its last leg and would collapse against a new offensive.
None of the offensives were designed to achieve their objectives against a fighting resistance. By the time of Operation Citadel, they should have been aware that the Red Army wasnt going anywhere even in a defeat. It was all just wishful thinking. Perhaps Hitler did have peace negotiations in mind if they had won at Kursk, attempting to seal a deal on somewhat favorable terms if the Wehrmacht held the upper hand even for a moment. It was clear that the German strategy from then on was to stall for time and hope that the alliance between the west and east fractures.

>>17269218
It seriously boggles my mind how bad it got, like did Germany just collectively forget how to do espionage during this era? They really couldn't find ANY fucking ideological sympathizers who were also competent enough to work as sources in enemy territory?

>>17269026
They did know about the reinforcements but chosen to attack anyway hoping that recently introduced Tigers will overwhelm the defenses.
Pure arrogance and irresponsible gamble.

>>17269269
Tigers overwhelmed the defences but as another anon said the war had already been economically lost by Germany at that point

>>17269026
>Why was German intelligence so fucking garbage in the war?
Weren't they compromised to the bone with Canaris and co

>enemies know you every move
>you don't know what the enemy is doing except on the front
>still almost win against economically and demographically vastly superior enemy

>>17269446
>still almost win
On a grand scale of things, the Axis were never even close. It's mostly just overhyped post-war allied propaganda to dramaticize ww2.

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>>17269026
>image for ants

>>17269155
There was this document that came out about German-Soviet negotiations after some of the German smaller scale winter offensives of 1942/1943. They didn't go anywhere but it's obvious that the Germans understood what's happening - the Soviets were looking for an easy way out of the war and as long as Germans can keep initiative this would be on table. Kursk, both in its scale and goals resembles these winter operations more so than the large invasions from the previous years. It's likely that the goal wasn't at this point to destroy the Soviet Union but rather to pressure until they can get sort of satisfactory peace deal

>>17269350
German intelligence was garbage on every conceivable level, presumably because Germany historically lacked a naval tradition (intelligence services and their structures all originate from naval intelligence) and because the krauts purged their foreign ministries of anyone who wasn't an NSDAP toady. Also the Nazi party structure of overlapping rivalries and mutual antagonisms favoured by Hitler inevitably led to party loyalists turning over to the Russians or Brits if their faction was on the losing side of a power struggle.
Even Japanese naval intelligence knew how Barbarossa and most German operational attacks would wind up and they didn't even have direct intel. One of the main reasons they attacked Pearl Harbour instead of Siberia wasn't just Khalkhin Gol, but because their Naval intelligence office accurately predicted how many divisions the Soviets had (Germans predicted about 200, the real number was closer to 400) and calculated their own capacity to resupply Japanese troops in Siberia.

>>17269235
German staff was very dismissive of its value. For instance in December 1939 a plane with an officer carrying among other things copies of German war plans had an emergency landing over Belgium. The plans were captured and sent to the French. The Germans knew they were captured. The staff insisted to keep things as they were. It was only through repeated insistence of Hitler that they were changed. However this was a freak accident while German intelligence failures were just mistakes in day to day basis. Now we did have some battles on the contact line in Belgium during the 1940 campaign and they were absolutely destructive for the Germans, and that with all the issues the French army has had. How bad would the campaign go if Hitler didn't get his way?

>>17269469
ok Ivan

>>17269538
>intelligence office accurately predicted how many divisions the Soviets had (Germans predicted about 200, the real number was closer to 400)

I dont think your numbers are accurate.
If I remember correct, German intel predicted somewhere around 150 divisions when the real number was closer to over 300 divisions.
The Germans anticipated that the Red Army of its entirety was what existed along the German-Russian border. When these were destroyed, the Wehrmacht would just drive down the road unopposed to their objectives. Barbarossa was expected to only take 6 weeks.

Your point still stands tho.

>>17269538
Japan acting more rational in WW2 really highlights how fucked Germany was in this lmao

>>17269446
>Almost win
Literally all the Allies had to do to win was not surrender lol, Germany was absolutely fucked outta their depth with the fight they picked.
Even the British could afford to just stay on their island, the Allies had anti-submarine warfare pretty much cracked and German U-Boat crews had a higher mortality rate than cancer patients.

>>17269745
They would've knocked out Britain early in the war if they focused on developing heavy bombers

>>17269826
>Would've could've should've
Heavy bombing didn't even affect German morale, there's no reason to believe it would've affected the Brits either.

>>17269826
>Le heavy bomber wunderwaffe xD
This takes away resources and production capacity from other types of aircraft, so it's not inconceivable that if that scenario has happened the allies would have air supremacy in may 1940, at the very least giving the French one more day to reinforce Sedan, and I'll remind you that the only crossing though the Meuse that wasn't thrown out was one where the 1st and 2nd DCR couldn't storm because they needed 12 hours of rest and by the time they did, the Germans dug in and had anti-tank guns in. Without air supremacy that allowed for mass scale bombing of French positions, the Germans have to wait a day on the other side of the river until artillery gets through, the French meanwhile were moving the DCRs into the area just in case the moment the Germans were spotted.
So again, we assume very small counterfactual in resulting from the lower production of other types of aircraft and suddenly Germany may not even knock France out of the war, let alone Britain.

>>17269026
>>17269107
>>17269218
>>17269230
They took out like a million Russians.
If the Nazis had won at Kursk you’d be speaking German. You are welcome, westerner.

>>17270828
>said while english is the globohomo lingua franca he speaks right now

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>Kursk
With Modern Technology anything is possible.
Russians still can't even take their own Territory after Ukraine drove around in it unopposed.

>>17269711
>>17269538
>better air support by IJA
What if they did?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantokuen

>>17272059
An attack on the USSR would have been as big a gamble as Pearl Harbour but even riskier with the enemy being able to directly invade the home islands if they failed. Also the Japanese army in Manchuria was completely unreliable and had basically gone rogue by that point which is why they went with the plan to attack the USA instead. The Japs naval intelligence knew just how many troops the Soviets could muster and how hard it would be for the Manchurian army to supply itself and successfully argued that it was a complete fantasy scenario.

>>17269026
Nazi's weren't reasonable people. Despite having some of the most deadly military units in human history, they were unreasonable and completely infiltrated by British and soviet spys

maybe not to the extent some people are saying, but they litterally failed key objectives in the start of barbarossa, and operation they knew they could only supply for at most 6 months, failed those, and just decided they would "make up the time"

"make up" in this case someone how means lay 20,000 km of track and somehow get coal all the way from germany to ukraine, so they could travel across all of russia.

You can't just "make up" up the time by pushing horses or driving faster. They were unreasonable retards and it still took the soviets waves of men and perfect intelligence to beat them.

Battle was crazy impressive OP

>>17271320
дypaк, мы зa pyccиa

How come Germans were so confident they'd beat France even long before they planned to invade them? They couldn't find out it would only take a fucking month to knock out France.

>>17273116
Bravado, Superior armaments do to successful corprotism giving a large pool of trained volunteer troops with machine guns. Although they had a sizeable amount of old artillery, they also had a small amount of state of the art artillery. They also knew that their style of infantry combat was more flexible, allowing for more successful motorized encirclements than the French could. There's also something to be said that they had better armor doctrine, but honestly that's more something they learned by kicking the frenches ass.

The French actually fought kind of hard, just they fought it like the last war to some extent, to the frustration of several french generals and officers that all leave afterwards to the colonise or to hang out with de gaul.

>>17273116
the war machine and military doctrines the Germans built up in the 30s were designed specifically to destroy France. German tanks and vehicles were designed to operate on French terrain, their encirclement doctrines meant to take advantage of French tactics, their armoured spearheads meant to destroy French combined arms organisation etc.
The reason they completely fucked up in Russia was using a war machine built to operate in western Europe against western European armies against a massive Russian military with insane mobilization and production capabilities, on Russian terrain.

>>17269026
If any country today was foolish enough to underestimate the Russians much like the Nazis did, they would be forced to relive the Nazi defeat. Possibly in the same place. Luckily we don't live in a post-truth world controlled by convenient narratives. Phew, what a relief, huh?

French early capitulation is something of an historical aberration. The push through the Ardennes, bypassing the Maginot line, was a gamble that paid off. Their timetable was longer and didn't expect such a quick victory. This deluded the Germans into thinking they were invincible.

>>17269026
>>17269107
Battle of Prokhorovka was a total German victory.
Battle of Prokhorovka AFV losses for both Germans and Soviets -
German: 3 destroyed
Soviet: 259 damaged or destroyed (mostly destroyed)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140912164146/http:/www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm
TOTAL GERMAN VICTORY.

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Did you really think I was gone /his/...did you really think the coast was clear to start lying about Kursk again?

>>17274100
The word you're looking for is tactical victory, strategic failure.

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TOTAL GERMAN VICTORY

>>17274100
lmao this is actual cope
"we won a single skirmish over a village in a theatre-sized battle that we decisively lost and never regained strategic initiative from for the rest of the war"

>>17273940
Your unsubtle hints at this being a mirror to the ongoing Ukrainian War fall a bit flat given the wildly different circumstances and context. Neither side is fully mobilized in the current war, neither side is seeking the full extended endgame that Germany desired, and most importantly the literal fucking Soviet Union itself does not exist anymore (everyone seems to forget that Ukraine was a huge chunk of the USSR and one of its most valuable and modernized regions, i.e Russia without Ukraine is a limping man without his prosthetics)

>>17274832
>Neither side is fully mobilized
one side is about to be

>>17269026
The head of it was working was essentially working for the British. He literally told Franco to not join the axis and Franco told Hitler and brushed him off

>>17274807
Keep seething Slavfaggot, the Germans only lost 3 tanks, while the Soviets lost 259 tanks kek, so much for the ‘‘‘‘‘biggest’’’’’ tank battle in history…
GERMANY WON.

>>17269235
The head of their intelligence was a British spy

So is there any counterfactual history where Germany could have beaten the Soviet Union? Or were they completely fucked from the beginning?

>>17269826
germany wasn't knocked out of the war because allies bombed them so i doubt that uk would

>>17269525
Soviets wanted peace with returning to 1939 borders (with Poland partitioned) but Germans would only accept peace with the new border along the current front line - so their conquest would still be very large.

>>17274111
what a cope. It wasn't abut muh tank kills but about capturing Kursk, which they didn't do.
In fact, if Germans didn't run away with tails between their legs they would have all been deleted at Kursk like at Stalingrad kek.

>>17276463
Enough with the dumb fantasies Ivan.
>It wasn't abut muh tank kills
Now this is just sad cope
>but about capturing Kursk, which they didn't do
They didn’t capture Kursk because they had to divert troops down to Sicily due to the Allied landings, it had nothing to do with you Russoidmutts getting steamrolled on the Steppes
>In fact, if Germans didn't run away with tails between their legs they would have all been deleted at Kursk like at Stalingrad kek
Now this is just plain retarded and you know it. The only reason why Germans lost at Stalingrad was because of their weak allies on the flanks. If those were Germans on the flank then it would’ve looked more like Operation Mars than Uranus.

>>17269026
Whatever little sanity OKH & Hitler had, completely evaporated after the titanic debacle at Stalingrad.

>>17269155
Why is your text highlight purple in colour instead of the standard blue?

Thread theme-
https://youtu.be/j1oRUFbTP5w?si=UrktyGf87b3UvXPu

>>17269235
Having your openly stated ideology be "We're going to murder your children and make you watch" makes it a tad difficult to recruit assets from said people. Like at least the Communists could point to the whole "Liberation of the international Proletariat" thing or the Liberal West could point to the whole "Democracy and national self-determination" thing regardless of whether they actually followed through on their promises afterwards. It's kinda like how during the US Civil War every single slave immediately helped the Union as soon as the chance presented itself.

>>17269275
>Tigers overwhelmed the defences
Not in the Northern Sector, though. There the Germans ran into an impenetrable iron wall and couldn't do much. Although, Model has to keep much panzers and men in reserve as he was (rightfully) worried about the encirclement from further North.

>>17276134
Their only possible route to victory is some kind of Soviet internal political kerfuffle happening right at the start of Barbarossa. Maybe, maaaaaybe you get something like a situation where someone puts an ice pick in Stalin's brain for causing the whole shitshow in the first place, but they themself is unable to just slide into Stalins position. So the Soviet Leadership turns on each other trying to be Stalins successor which leaves them unable to adequately coordinate the defense and maybe even gives some wannabe White Army revivalist the idea to make their play against Moscow. In honesty I doubt even this scenario is likely. The Nazis were such a plainly existential threat at that point and the Soviet state organized enough I don't think it would have happened.

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>>17269496
Still tiny and somewhat blurry.

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>>17269026
What a great map, op.

>>17273108
>most deadly military units in human history
Yup, only when fighting innocent, unarmed, & hapless women, children and the populace.

>>17274100
Copium (Wehrmacht military grade).

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>>17274111
>

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>>17275929
>GERMANY WON

>>17276463
>In fact, if Germans didn't run away with tails between their legs they would have all been deleted at Kursk like at Stalingrad kek
So much this!

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>>17276602
>They didn’t capture Kursk because they had to divert troops down to Sicily due to the Allied landings

>>17276134
if there was no lend lease then sure
but it would not have stopped the US and allies from eventually winning.. unless Germany got the bomb first.
Germany did not have enough supply and equipment, and this was before the invasion of USSR.
best case they would get peace with allies 42/43 and better borders
otherwise
Germany would have had to take Moscow in 41 and MAYBE... MAYBE get an armistice if
Italy did not invade Greece
Japan attacked USSR
Germany recruited more from conquered territories (did not treat the slavs harshly etc)

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>>17276791
>>They didn’t capture Kursk because they had to divert troops down to Sicily due to the Allied landings

https://youtu.be/4WBSn9sxlXY?si=YmeCmq7TGjD4EIjJ
>chuds seething

>>17276627
Don't keep your hopes high, most likely it isn't because of what you think.

>>17276769
>>17276783
Yes your precious Soviets lost every single tactical battle, you can now cry.
>>17276774
Yes that’s correct the Germans won the Battle of Prokhorovka but lost the larger Kursk campaign.
>>17276780
Irrelevant to Kursk
>>17276791
Yes there was more to the war than just slavniggers constantly getting slaughtered

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>>17277021
>Yes your precious Soviets lost every single tactical battle, you can now cry
>Gentlemen, you see, decisive tactical victories wins wars!
Erm.. wait.. where are my Ost Armeegruppes?!
Nooo.. this can't be happening. What about my tactical victorinoos?!

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>>17276774
Ouch that German wrath. Both Ivan and Sasha must have been sooo scared!

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>>17277149
>decisive tactical victories wins wars!
>*making shit up in his head now*
Listen I know you're a ESL faggot but try and stay on topic here Russnigger, we're talking about Kursk, not Berlin.

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>Kursk 'Victors'

how do subhuman russoids cope with the fact they would have decisively lost if not for daddy America massively helping them?

>>17277245
>they woulda lost but but but!!!

https://youtu.be/jqFFvDLnqq8?si=7K4x6WcfK4VmYH4u

>>17276602
>because of their weak allies on the flanks.
And who put them there? As far as I know they were under german supreme command.

>>17270828
weak bait, germany couldn't win after december 1941

>>17269745
Who are “the Allies”? Without the US the UK falls in five years. Without US materiel they can’t match German production or manpower.
>d colonies save you Saar
Please do not claim this. Churchill never meant the colonies like India or Australia he meant the US.

>>17277245
By mid 1943 the war was already basically won by the russians

>>17276760
Is that why they kicked the British out of France, rolled the entirety of France and Poland in a collective three months, and held off the US for a year in Italy?
The Germans were good, maybe the best. They unironically deserved to win.
I can say that as an American.
Poles and kikes will seethe but nature deemed you unworthy of life.
Reminder
You’re getting drafted and Hebollah recently took (still holding) land claimed by Israel.

>>17276780
Yes? German tanks are crushing Stalin’s bastard children under their treads as Ukrainians destroy any remnant of the USSR.

>>17276852
Germans didn’t treat Slavs harshly. This was a propaganda tool used by Russnim and Serbniks
Russian troops left behind in Barbarossa created cells of hundreds of thousands and pressed civilians into partisan service.
This lead to the Germans coming down hard on everyone. But ultimately it was the Russian soldiers who falseflagged as Ukrainians and Belarusians who are at fault.

>>17277886
Krautniggers never deserved to win, and they lost against the Russians

>>17277149
>goes extinct
> “we raised le heckin flag”

>>17277245
It’s not Russians it’s Jews trying to demoralize Whites.

>>17277930
They deserved to win so much they are the hegemon of Europe while Russia and the UK collapse.
Another million shells and 15 Merkava 11bs until final victory, mr goldberg?

>>17277973
The hegemon of Europe is America and you're only fooling yourself thinking it's Germany.

>>17277984
>strongest economy in Europe
>head of the EU
>America talks to Germany directly (something it does not do to the UK, France, or Russia)
Yeah I’m thinkin total Aryan Germanic victory.

Germany is also by far the most beloved by the American people.
Only literal jews deny this.

>>17269026
Actually, they broke through on one side of the pincer, but ultimately called off the operation due to Operation Husky. Without Husky, they probably would have proceeded woth the offensive, but it’s debatable whether or not they would encircle the Soviet army group, or whether it coild successfully withdraw.

Really by mid-1943 the dynamism of the war had turned against the Axis, so that’s why we saw what we saw.

>>17278002
>(something it does not do to the UK, France, or Russia)
Do you actually believe this shit?

>>17269218
>>17269235
This anon >>17276649 has the correct answer. The fact is that the German government’s philosphy interfered with any promise of building up an intelligence arm.

>>17277973
The only good part of Germany is the one subject to 50 years of Russian occupation, the other one is a turkmutt hellscape.

>>17277821
Still doesn’t take away from the fact that they failed due to their incompetence.
If Germans were there it would’ve been a different story.

>>17277245
If you lose to a guy simply because they got some extra Studebaker trucks and Jeeps, then you must be really fucking incompetent

>>17277886
>They unironically deserved to win.
Holy shit what kind of faggot world do you live in where anyone "deserves" to win?
You either win or you lose, it's literally that simple lol. You don't "deserve to win" if you lost, then it just means you fucking lost and couldn't win.
I swear to God, Germans have some sort of faulty wiring in their minds that makes them incapable of getting this. They couldn't understand that they lost in 1918, chimped out again, lost again, and now their fanboys are still incapable of getting it!
>inb4 he starts chimping out at me for being le slavoid kike or something
I'm Australian

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>>17278002
>>head of the EU
That's not the EU works, you stupid Yankoid cunt lol
>Germany is also by far the most beloved by the American people.
Germans think you're a nation of retards, especially after Trump got re-elected. Ironically only non-whites (e.g. Brazilian right wingers) admire American Right-Wingers lol

>>17279159
Funny since your government collapsed

>>17269230
Citadel’s success was explicitly meant by Hitler to be something for the bargaining table.

>>17279312
>American is too low IQ to even conceive of a Parliamentary system where we can replace governments in 2 months as opposed to having a 2 year long campaign season

Why did Vatutin fuck up so bad at Prokhorovka?

>>17279813
Excessive pressure from stavka.

>>17277886
The German staff estimated that the chance of success of the plan they ended up going with during the French campaign was 10%. Later simulations in the 1990s show even lower chance. The reason it worked is a combination of a chain of events that, if a single element of it was broken would most likely lead to the Germans stalling at Sedan, and the chain was as follows
>The German warplans were captured
>Gamelin assumes that the German staff will insist on keeping it largely unchanged and sends some motorised infantry divisions to link up with whatever Dutch units that may retreat instead of keeping it in reserve
>German generals, despite insisting on keeping the plans as Gamelin predicted they would, cow to Hitler who tells them to change it
>Before approaching Sedan, Hutzinger reserve cavalry brigades encounter the Germans and decide to retreat southwards - had they turned north they'd be able to reinforce the breakthrough
>not one but two French infantry divisions collapse
>the single successful landing on the south-western bank of Meuse barely survives the first day and is reinforced during the night
>Stonne was captured, barely but it was
>The German command structure is pants on head retarded but it allows Guderian to just ignore any orders he receives and race through the Flanders, had it been a less retarded and ambitious man there the breakthrough may have still plugged

Especially the early points are just extreme cases of luck. Gamelin even guessed the attitudes in the German command correctly, it's almost solely due to Hitler that the fighting during the campaign didn't resemble the fighting at gembloux gap where the German theoretically manage to inflict more casualties on the French, but lose third of their tanks and with each further assault their capability to break through drops.

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>>17269026
Lol
Germans are the most conquered and raped people in Europe and up there in the world next to Indians, they were trampled over far more times than even the Chinese and the Russians. Germs have DNA from almost everyone in Europe.
While every balkan village has a village rapist, every German village has a plaque dedicated to a Swede rapist who impregnated everyone there. Swedes forced Germans to eat their shit. This may have contributed to their scat fetish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwedentrunk
Germany has never won a war. They finally stopped getting raped and shat on (literally) and formed a functioning state in 1871, something even the Russmongoloid slaves did centuries ago. They chimped out at Europeans twice and got BTFO each time leading to another round of rape for Germany this time by Russmongoloids.
The most conquered and humiliated rapebabies of Europe who got anally devastated by Romans, Huns, Habsburgs, Czechs, Swedes, Frenchmen, Russians and now Arab rapist migrants, the trauma has caused Germans to become autistic, extremely obedient to authority and lacking in empathy.

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>>17279929
>the trauma has caused Germans to become autistic, extremely obedient to authority and lacking in empathy

>>17279813
Because unlike what that massive Russian dick sucker TIK says, Vatutin generally wasn’t that good of a commander.

>>17277973
They are not a hegemon of Europe you retard, and Russia itself a much more of a power than germanistan.

>>17279954
>t. Manstein

>>17276627
I don't recall; it's been like 3 years since I made that image.

>>17276424
Yes but that was the initial situation. If the Soviets can't take initiative because the Germans always check them with some local offensive somewhere then they'll be more inclined to offer concessions and that's kind of what the German military tries to achieve after the fall of Stalingrad. It's very questionable that it would work, but still possible.

>>17280173
Hmm. Do that be due to some other OS apart from Windows? Do you use Linux, Mac, etc.?

>>17277220
How do you win every single battle and yet still lose the war, nazis are incompetent as fuck

>>17280093
Pidors actually believe this.
You emigrate to Germany, but not to Russia, you have already proven Germany, defacto king of the EU, is the hegemon of Europe.

>>17279159
>The EU doesnt have clear leadership roles
wrong.
>Germans think and say!
dont care.
>DRUMPF
Zion Don is based solely because he makes Slavniks, and Eurotrash shitlibs seethe.

>>17280186
Negative; 8.1

>>17281103
8.1 is quite nice.
What computer specs you got, btw, humanities champ?

>>17279923
This only demonstrates Wargames are retarded. Germany was doctrinally ahead of everyone of their peers in 1941.
Wargames are very bad at reflecting small unit tactics, a flaw that is built in as the concept of wargaming was built around exclusively large movements and mass maneuver tactics.

>>17282098
>This only demonstrates Wargames are retarded.
If they were retarded they wouldn't still be used today.
Obviously they're not infallible systems, but they give a general "idea" and framework to start with. They've obviously been useful to many armies hence their continued use (and in the context of WWII, Germany's wargames predicted their own defeat in the USSR pretty accurately)

>>17282428
no, plenty of retarded things are still used today, even in war like Bayonets.
They dont give a general idea beyond Napoleonic warfare - which is what wargames were developed for.
Wargames run by the US show Iran defeating an American invasion, a prospect we know is laughable considering they can not even resist israel.
>Germany's wargames predicted their defeat accurately
but it didnt predict their successes.
Wargaming is unreliable, especially in modern warfare where small unit tactics can be decisive for a campaign, like in Poland, France, and Russia.

did hitler really think the brits and french wouldnt intervene in poland ?
is that the whole reason for ww2 ?

>>17282656
he thought it would have been a monumentally retarded mistake and he was proven correct. France fell within months and England still hasnt paid off their war debts, they might actually have their debts paid off by South Asian/African immigrants LOL.

>>17282656
Your proud country France wouldn't have been raped so hard in 40 if Hitler didn't expect an Allied declaration of war.

>>17282706
Remind me again how many muslims Germany invited recently?

>>17282803
not enough to make Germans a minority in their capitol.

>>17282098
Again if you look at the points listed you can see how a single change in the pre-Sedan events would probably make the plan fail and a lot of these are just massive coincidences, so the assumption that the Germans "hit" the 10% chance they've assumed the plan has is kind of realistic.

As for tactics it's never one dimensional. The French may have had less elaborate small unit tactics but they were designed for reservists who went through 1 year of conscription years ago. The French military wished they could do more and even the supposed conservative generals had good bearing of a lot of innovation, but thet had to work with what the politicians allowed them to do.

>>17282098
>Germany was doctrinally ahead of everyone of their peers in 1941
Source?

>>17274807
>the second biggest tank battle in history
>some retarded vatnigger: nah that was just a le hecking skirmish bro
Get better cope Ivan.

Deutschland verloren.

>>17282805
lmao have you ever been to Berlin?

>>17277924
They ethnically cleansed them as part of their manifest destiny, you Amerimutt retard.

>>17277948
They were going to go extinct under Nazism or at least be restricted to reservations.

>>17282656
Ribbentrop assured him Britain wouldn't dare to do anything, Hitler was so shocked at the declaration of war he turned to Ribbentrop and said "what now?"

>>17282656
Sure, the stars have told him that.

>>17282710
>2 official rapes by the Germans in France
>1000s of reported rapes by the Americans liberators in England alone and they were not even landed in France yet
>1000s of reported rapes in France
>Reported as a rape = if the women was married. If not then it was not counted at all, it's was claimed to be just "indecency" or whatever bullshit, included when children were raped.
And the communists were not let loose yet (who needs them anyways when the anglo-saxons are there to act the same).

>>17284725
>>17284728
>evidence
>my Slavic grandfather told me
LOL

>>17286987
I really would pay good money to watch the average American /pol/dancer take a trip across the "BASED part of EVROPA" and watch this dumbass try to lecture a bunch of Eastern European Boomers about their own history and how aktschually the Germans were their fucking heckin' saviors and they should have licked their boots.
You wouldn't survive past Prague lol

>>17282805
You'd be incorrect on that assumption