BTW before you reply with the Jewish revolt, remember that the romans only attacked the rebels in Judea (Just ask why the Judea royal family wasn't harmed or why Josephus was kept) and the romans in fact embraced jews outside Judea as one of the many migrants. In fact there were jews in Rome before Jesus was even born. So "pagan" antisemitism is just another post christian derivation, and inherently tied to christ.

>>17275679
I mean, yeah, anyone who takes old paganism seriously as a religion is retarded. Its an academic pursuit.

>people would rather worship shadows over a jewish man and a jewish god

I'm not sure what you mean, Asatru (the religion that Tom Rowsell practices) is a living tradition with multiple temples, churchbodies, and entire priesthoods. He himself is one of them. It's not like Eastern Orthodoxy or Catholicism where it's a dead religion that no one believes in anymore.

A European ethnic religion is the second largest religion, behind only Atheism, in four countries in Europe.

>>17275714
Now this is some serious cope.

>>17275714
The tradition of 2016 LMAO. It is basically all interpretation and no actual belief. Its basically atheist dress up.

>>17275722
Sure, desu socialism is indeed very popular

>>17275709
Aka they don't worship but larp

>>17275728
Again, I'm not sure what you mean. Asatru traces it's origin back to 5,000BC. You don't seem to have done much research on this topic.

>>17275725
Oh fuck off you stupid neopagan LARPer, the Pope is a Satanic Freemasonic Communist. Vatican II killed the Church. You must RETVRN or suffer hellfire.

>>17275679
>>No Canon
poetic edda + prose edda + icelandic sagas
>>No Real Presence
fair
>>No Explanation for the past 1000 years
the Aesir don't care that their people decided to LARP as jews for 1,000 years. There's nothing for them to gain by mass brainwashing the masses and forcing them to continue practicing paganism against their will.
>>No Doctrine
the doctrine is contained in the canon. In particular, Havamal, Grimnismal, Vafthruthnismal, and Fafnismal. Also the Lays of Helgi.
so you're 1/5. F, see me after class.

>>17275751
I seem to be mistaken, but didn't paganism end in the germanic sense by the 1200s in the latest?

>>17275751
> Asatru traces it's origin back to 5,000BC
Oh God, he's serious....

>>17275756
No? By definition "Paganism" will continue to exist as long as there's gentile deities and gentiles. I don't recall the Germanic peoples just vanish from thin-air and coming back 800 years later.

>>17275709
You're a skin worshiper! You worship your skin!

>>17275757
If we're not being either completely dishonest or autistic etymologyfags, Odin is transparently the Indo-European Sky-Father figure, so it's fair to say that, for as long as that archetype has existed (a very long time), the practice of "Asatru" has also existed.

>>17275766
>>17275757
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Prepuce

>>17275754
>poetic edda + prose edda + icelandic sagas
Basically compilation of stories. It's like considering the Iliad a religious text. Also it's composed by a christian man 200 years after conversion. You are basically getting an interpretation of an interpretation.
>the Aesir don't care that their people decided to LARP as jews
And you know this how? Did they personally come and tell you?
>the doctrine is contained in the canon
It's basically taking Grimms fairytales and making a religion out of it. There is no indication these were in any way holy texts.

>>17275761
Ok, so you have perfect recollection of how people believed and worshiped in the 9th century? Can you tell me the specific, hour by hour ritual practiced in the Odinshof in Uppsala? No guessing!
>>17275768
By that definition Christianity became an indo European religion

>>17275772
>Basically compilation of stories
So like the New Testament, the Quran, and the Torah.

>It's like considering the Iliad a religious text.
It is, yes.

>Also it's composed by a christian man 200 years after conversion
Snorri's father was a Gothi, he himself talked to Asatru skalds, he was murdered for being Asatru after having spent his entire life dodging assassination attempts from his enemies trying to kill him on those grounds, "conversion" of a state is meaningless, and there are no extant Christian Churches that hold his professed theology to be anything other than sinful blasphemy.

>You are basically getting an interpretation of an interpretation.
What, like how Christianity works? No, we have the oral tradition written down.

>And you know this how?
Holy texts, the words of gothar.

>Did they personally come and tell you?
Yep.

>It's basically taking Grimms fairytales and making a religion out of it.
What, like how Christians view the Bible? No, sorry, it's nothing like that.

>There is no indication these were in any way holy texts.
Other than all of the stuff saying that these were holy texts, of course.

>>17275775
>Ok, so you have perfect recollection of how people believed and worshiped in the 9th century?
Yep.

>Can you tell me the specific, hour by hour ritual practiced in the Odinshof in Uppsala? No guessing!
Sure.

>>17275772
>It's like considering the Iliad a religious text.
Passages from the Iliad and the Edda were both recited out loud during rituals in their respective religions, so yes, you're correct, they are religious texts.

>>17275779
It doesn't matter! It's LARP!

>>17275772
>Basically compilation of stories. It's like considering the Iliad a religious text.
all this tells me is that you've never read the codex regius. All of the god poetry (besides off the top of my head Thrymskvitha, Hymiskvitha, and I guess arguably Skirnismal) isn't really a series of "stories." Most of the poems are actually conversations regarding all the different aspects of the practice of paganism. These conversations are usually framed in a story (e.g. grimnismal is about Odin being tortured and eventually slaying a tyrant king), but the actual body of the poem itself is mostly a discussion of heathen virtues and metaphysics. Sometimes you don't even get a story to frame the discussion, as in the various poems that were combined to create Havamal.
>There is no indication these were in any way holy texts.
The poetic edda isn't a holy text by any means. It's more similar to a law review article or a treatise in the sense that it more or provides a "lay of the land" for the faith from the perspective and understanding of the skald who composed the poem.

>>17275782
You're an atheist who roleplays as a crusader on the internet, why do you think your opinion matters?

>>17275779
>Sure.
Ok go on. We're waiting.

>>17275772
>It's basically taking Grimms fairytales and making a religion out of it
>You are basically getting an interpretation of an interpretation.
This is literally how Abrahamic religion works though.

>>17275779
Do it then lmao.
>>17275777
>So like the New Testament, the Quran, and the Torah.
Difference is that the latter are respectively a history of the acts of Jesus (with direct prescriptions on belief for the faithful), a directly written word of god and a history book with prescriptions by various holy figures. The Norse books are like using Saints lives as christian canon.
>It is, yes.
Lol, Lmao
>Snorri's father was a Gothi, he himself talked to Asatru skalds, he was murdered for being Asatru after having spent his entire life dodging assassination attempts from his enemies trying to kill him on those grounds, "conversion" of a state is meaningless, and there are no extant Christian Churches that hold his professed theology to be anything other than sinful blasphemy.
Snorri was a catholic by virtually all accounts. To claim he is a heretic is entirely made up.
>What, like how Christianity works? No, we have the oral tradition written down.
you have some songs written down by a small fraction of the Scandinavian world almost 200 years after the official conversion. You basically have the vague memories told in private without any public way to remember them in holy sites.
>Yep.
>What, like how Christians view the Bible? No, sorry, it's nothing like that.
Actually seething
>Other than all of the stuff saying that these were holy texts, of course.
Source: odin's farts.

>>17275679
Neo-Pagans badly need someone to claim to have had visions of the gods speeking to him and write down all his schizo ramblings to a book. They cannot make an academic claim that they are practicing the religion of their ancestors. But they could at least become a new religious movement based on the teachings of a prophet who was supposedly revealed the lost lore of the pagans by the gods themselves.

Maybe give Varg some datura and see where it goes.

>>17275781
How do you know this? Especially the Edda is odd since it was composed after official conversion. If you are talking about the songs, please tell me what and where.

Also if by "rituals" for the Iliad you mean the theatre competition in Athens, then you are truly very intelligent

>>17275786
Not really

Do tradlarps not see how pessimistic appealing to antiquity to validate themselves is? Is your god dead? Does he not exist in contemporary form? There can be no new forms of religious expression? That sounds like worshipping shadows. You're a cargo cult.

>>17275812
christian subservience to man-made laws and interpretations is not "worshipping shadows." It's just secular humanism dressed up to look like a religion.

>>17275783
>actually conversations regarding all the different aspects of the practice of paganism
"Umm acthually, it isn't about how Thor was dressed as a woman to get back his hammer, it was a secret pagan instruction manual despite having no direct references other than my interpretation"
You see what I mean here?
>actual body of the poem itself is mostly a discussion of heathen virtues and metaphysics
Not really? It's a post hoc rationalisation. I need to structure my reconstructed faith -> I use the stories to indicate how my faith would have operated ->My stories were actual description of how the faith operates without any actual indication that they are.

>>17275824
>"Umm acthually, it isn't about how Thor was dressed as a woman to get back his hammer, it was a secret pagan instruction manual despite having no direct references other than my interpretation"
You're discussing Thrymskvitha, which I already identified as being one of the few god poems in the poetic edda that IS actually, as you originally said, nothing more than just a silly story with no deeper meaning to it.
>Not really? It's a post hoc rationalisation.
please just read Havamal so you actually understand what I'm talking about. It'll take you like ten minutes.
One of the most recurrent elements in norse poetry is what the youtuber jackson crawford i think calls a "trivia contest." It's literally just a "story" where two characters say "Hey, let's sit down and discuss pagan cosmogony, metaphysics, history, and virtue." And then they do that, and the entire body of the poem is just Odin and sometimes another guy saying "This is how the universe was created" and "It is virtuous to do X and not Y" and "dead people reincarnate after they die"

>>17275838
I can't remember the name now, but I distinctly remember reading a medieval English legal treatise that was just a discussion of the nature of English law (I think it may have been English ecclesiastical law), but it was unnecessarily framed as being a dialog between a student and his mentor.
I think framing treatises and digests as dialogs between characters in a story is just an interesting northern european idiosyncrasy.

>>17275679
True There is only one God and Muhammad is his prophet

>>17275679
First of all, you only mean Neo-Pagans.
Second, while the lack of continuity may appear to be a problem to some. It's not truly necessary to be a Pagan. Jupiter didn't go away because he was not worshipped for a thousand years, neither did Thor, etc.

>So you larp as an 9th century Scandinavian in the vain belief that if Paganism wasn't destroyed today, it would not have changed beliefs at all.
Well, people still follow the same general bundle of disparate Jewish Schizophrenia a 5th century Anatolian did. So I do not see the issue.

>>17275797
Technically, this is what originally happened, at least in the IE traditions. The rites, magic, and sacrifices were revealed to a lawgiver/teacher by the gods. So they could just say that it happened again.

>>17275798
>How do you know this?
Because we're told that it happened by numerous sources. Snorri is one for Asatru, but Plato talks about this in Greece (and he didn't like it).

>Also if by "rituals" for the Iliad
No, I'm referring to regular things like prayers and animal sacrifice.

>>17275796
>Difference is that the latter are respectively a history of the acts of Jesus
This is not the case, sorry.

>a directly written word of god and a history book with prescriptions by various holy figures.
This isn't the case, no. It does accurately describe the Havamal and Hyndluloð, however!

>Snorri was a catholic by virtually all accounts
Except those of Catholics today, of course.

>you have some songs written down by a small fraction of the Scandinavian world almost 200 years after the official conversion
We have more evidence for Odin than we do for Yeshua bar Yosef.

>You basically have the vague memories told in private without any public way to remember them in holy sites.
Yes, you are correct, the evidence for Rabbi Yeshua is quite shaky.

>>17275900
>The rites, magic, and sacrifices were revealed to a lawgiver/teacher by the gods. So they could just say that it happened again.
Odin actually talks about doing this multiple times in the past, and that he will do it again in the future, in the Havamal.

>>17275812
The Asatru Folk Assembly in the US is working on getting it's fifth temple, meanwhile Tradlarpers can't even agree who the Pope is, let alone basic matters of theology. Not only is the jewgod dead, so is the fake make-believe meme religion.

>>17275722
>European Ethnic Religion
So... Christianity? You know, the main religion in the continent for more than a millennium?
Germanics literally have been worshipping Jesus for longer than the time they had worship Odin.

>>17275900
>Jupiter didn't go away because he was not worshipped for a thousand years
Pagan gods demand sacrifice. It's the entire point of sacrificing. It is why Zeus allowed humanity to stay, so that they may offer sacrifice to the gods. If the gods haven't received sacrifice, why haven't they punished the world?
>Well, people still follow the same general bundle of disparate Jewish Schizophrenia a 5th century Anatolian did. So I do not see the issue.
Except that the bundle isn't only in a written source and it is continuously 2000 year old. There is quite a difference.
>Technically, this is what originally happened, at least in the IE traditions.
Tell me in which Roman or Greek source were revealed to whom? To which lawgiver was Odin's wisdom given to?
>So they could just say that it happened again.
With entirely manufactured beliefs.
>>17275921
Ok, mention the reference. Also Snorri was a christian.
>>17275930
>This is not the case, sorry.
Oh, but it is.
>This isn't the case, no. It does accurately describe the Havamal and Hyndluloð, however!
They definetly are though. On the other hand Hyndluloð is almost certainly not what you interpret it as.
>We have more evidence for Odin than we do for Yeshua bar Yosef.
Not really. Jesus Christ the son of god is pretty well attested.
>Yes, you are correct, the evidence for Rabbi Yeshua is quite shaky.
LMAO don't tell me you are going with the Dawkins level take of Jesus wasn't actually real! KEK reddit tier atheism.
>>17275936
Ok, but when are you going to sacrifice humans and horses? Also were is your king to lead the rites for odin (If that is the correct interpretation at all. You know, it was never made explicit).

>>17275983
>Havamal stanza 145
>It is better not to pray at all
>than to pray for too much;
>nothing will be given that you won't repay.
>It is better to sacrifice nothing
>than to offer too much.
>Odin carved this
>before the birth of mankind,
>when he rose up
>and returned again.
heathenism is not transactional

>>17275983
>On the other hand Hyndluloð is almost certainly not what you interpret it as.
why should I believe your interpretation of it when you don't even realize that it's actually called "Hyndluljoth." Ljoth being the same term for poem that shows up in the infamous Harbarthsljoth.

>>17275983
>If the gods haven't received sacrifice, why haven't they punished the world?
They have. Plagues, Earthquakes, massive wars, Etc.
>Except that the bundle isn't only in a written source and it is continuously 2000 year old. There is quite a difference.
Irrelevant, I brought up christianity to demonstrate there were beliefs that didn't change for a long time.
>With entirely manufactured beliefs.
All prophecy and ritual are made up, at first. Or what, do you think the Christian wine and crackers bit is an inviolable part of natural law?

>>17276220
>They have. Plagues, Earthquakes, massive wars, Etc.
Not really. It seems as the world became less and less pagan, things got better and better. In fact, the more the world became christian, the better it got, and when the world became less christian, the worse it got.
>Irrelevant, I brought up christianity to demonstrate there were beliefs that didn't change for a long time.
>Irrelevant, I brought up christianity to demonstrate there were beliefs that didn't change for a long time.
not irrelevant because a) Christianity is fundamentally different from Paganism on various structural and conceptual levels. There is no such thing as canon or doctrine in paganism. Which is why you get such wacky and different beliefs over time. As an example Light and dark elves are almost certainly christian additions, as almost certainly is the concept of Valhalla.
>All prophecy and ritual are made up, at first. Or what, do you think the Christian wine and crackers bit is an inviolable part of natural law?
If they are made up then it is clear paganism is atheism with a fashion trend. In Christianity there is no doubt Jesus performed a miracle and only atheists believe in debunking the story.

>>17276093
barring from the fact that I copy pasted to match you retard, the fact that you have to listen to any interpretation at all is pretty damning

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>No canon
what does this even mean? no stories? no lore? have you even read a mythology book in your entire life?
>No Real Presence
more fruity bullshit only relevant to a catholic. again, what does this even mean? is this about the crackers?
>No explanation for the past 1000 years
what explanation? jews rule the world thanks to christians, its pretty simple
>No doctrine
what use is a doctrine if its about nonsensical jewish shit?
>No Hard Ritual Knowledge
we have several grimoires from the bronze age period


you have niggers

>>17276086
That is a quote about moderation. The Loddfáfnismál of the havaml is basically mostly that + world advice. Baring a few things it does not deal with the supernatural.
>Then among these the father of men and gods was first to speak:“Look you now, in sooth a well-loved man do mine eyes behold pursued around the wall; and my heart hath sorrow [170] for Hector, who hath burned for me many thighs of oxen on the crests of many-ridged Ida, and at other times on the topmost citadel....

if we take norse context one of the many cases on a day to day basis is in the Gísla saga Súrssonar:
>They sacked the house, and behaved as much like enemies as they could, and took all they could carry with them. After that they row to their ships, and landed on the island, and made a great sacrifice, and vowed vows for a fair wind, and the wind comes. So they put to sea, and have Iceland in their mind's eye.

Pagan sacrifice IS transactional; man satisfies the desires of the gods, and in exchange, they provide him with his earthly longings.

>>17275679
Imagine believing in any religion

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>>17275728
>It is basically all interpretation and no actual belief.
why does one preclude the other? christians have all kinds of different interpretations of the bible, does that mean none of you actually believe in it? didnt you retards fight entire wars over whether the father proceedeth out of the holy spirit or out from the son or whatever horseshit? sounds like you people dont even know what you worship.

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>>17276563
>The Loddfáfnismál of the havaml is basically mostly that + world advice. Baring a few things it does not deal with the supernatural.
ive heard this retard argument before. do you get this from some catholic apologetics website or something? yeah proverbs doesnt really deal with the supernatural either, so i guess you should take that part of the bible out and put it in the 'jewish history' file. also have you even read the havamal? theres tons of supernatural shit. the entire ending of the havamal is the song of the runes. you literally just sound like another brownshit trying to denigrate white history without even knowing anything about it. just cause you googled the name of a saga or two doesnt trick anyone who has actually read these things. you obviously are just some illiterate idiot being fed anti-pagan memes on your crusadelarp discord

>>17275679
It is basically a fashion statement that nobody really believes in, which makes it closer to you tradcath cucks than you might be comfortable with kek

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>>17276572
why is my ancestral history a 'fashion statement'? the culture passed down to me by my own ancestors? I feel this is something said by rootless retards who never actually connected with their ancestors. never heard old folk tales from their grandpa or old sayings that go back to pagan rome from their mom. you probably just played crusader kings 2 while your ancestors withered and died. that or youre just brown, which is the easier explanation for your obvious disdain for anything white

>>17275679
>my fanfiction is superior to yours

>>17276578
>the culture passed down to me by my own ancestors?
But it wasn't passed down to you from your ancestors retard, else you'd be a church going christian if you followed them. Your entire identity as a pagan is made up. Its fake.

>>17276593
Not as fake as N.Europeans pretending to to care about Jewish zombies and carpenters

>>17276593
>only this specific set of ancestor count
>the far more numerous grop that didn't follow my religion dob't count because...

>>17276601
...because they have been dead for over 1000 years and you are basically trying to larp without any actual connection?

>>17276597
But you see, God is rules all. Odin doesn't even rule Iceland anymore LMAO.

>>17276578
yeah man you definitely worship uhhh the sun and shit
>>17276597
>Not as fake as N.Europeans pretending to to care about Jewish zombies and carpenters
who's denying this? tradcath larpers pretend to believe in giant sea monsters guarding the corners of the flat earth

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>>17276593
worthless niggers like you wouldnt even know what im talking about, because youre a worthless nigger with no culture. you think the only culture is church, because thats all you worthless niggers have. you will never be white btw

>>17276610
>God is rules all. Odin doesn't even rule Iceland anymore
if we are going by geographic region, your god barely rules shit. a handful of the midwestern states. meanwhile the jewish god rules most of christendom with the muslim god coming in quick on his heels (dont pretend that you all worship the same god, we all know you dont)

>>17276611
>tradcath larpers pretend to believe in giant sea monsters guarding the corners of the flat earth
not to defend tradcaths but flat earth is a protestant thing you fucking retard

>>17276618
>not to defend tradcaths but flat earth is a protestant thing you fucking retard
Do you even read 'your' own literature?
>Revelation 7:1 (KJV)
>And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

>>17276617
>your god barely rules shit
Yahweh has an iron hold over... african/south american brownoid shitholes and his crown jewel, the Philippines

>>17276617
Correct. Muslims worship a literal demon and Jews worship their father, the devil.

>>17275679
You have no good explanation for the past 7 13 billions years before Christrannity, LARPing freak

>>17276629
>>17276617
God rules over all the lands in the universe. He is not limited, but an unlimited will. He ruled over Iceland whilst people were actually practicing paganism and he rules over England right now where retards larp as them to cope.

>>17276647
DESU doesn't counter the fact that paganism is purely artificial.

>>17276648
Sure he does, in your fantasy
>>17276651
Just as Christrannity is, desperately trying to pretend books written with different intents, often contradictory, are all coherent and perfectly fullfill the same purpose

The idea of an incontestable perspective or adaptation of god is something that is actually something we must fight and fight against like we'd handle a rapist or oppressor-- not allow it as a model of ethics which asserts no matter where you're at, this in respects to the reality of the world we live in. People worship a man/men seeking, but leveraging perception as an end-of-all-thought posture. We recognize that these don't exist for us that there shouldn't be a pervasive intent that tries to leverage and disparage your idea at the same time and paradoxically. To recognize there's no perfect and uncountable heaven or heaven.

>>17276648
if God rules over everything and is all powerful why cant he get his name changed in western lands? God is a pagan title once used for Odin. its directly related to Gautr and Goduan. have you ever read your bible anon? the jews (sorry, israelites) fought entire civil wars to keep the name of their 'god' YAHWEH in tact. but he cant make sure one itty bitty race of white people says it?

>>17275679
You forgot one
>No worshipping a jew raised by a cuck

>>17276675
Yeah because Neo"pagans" don't worship anything

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>>17275679
>remember that antisemitism is a christian derived concept and has no pagan counterparts.

>>17276734
literally more of a Move of state power and part of the division of the Judean elite into hellenophile and anti hellenophile camp than a full blown hatred for jews as a race.

>>17276675
>t. jew

>>17276563
>The Loddfáfnismál of the havaml is basically mostly that + world advice
Stanza 145 is Runatal, and Runatal is purely supernatural (The Rune in Runatal refers to magical spells that Odin learned by sacrificing himself)
>Pagan sacrifice IS transactional; man satisfies the desires of the gods, and in exchange, they provide him with his earthly longings.
If you read the Helgi lays in the codex regius, you'll see that the point of paganism is not to ask things of Odin as if you're asking for an allowance from your dad. Sometimes you're in a bad position and need the help of the gods. But the actual purpose of the religion is to make oneself a suitable vessel for divinity througn virtue so they may ascend to heaven and become an alfar, or ancestor spirit.
This comports with much of what Odin says in the Havamal
>68. Fire for men | is the fairest gift,
>And power to see the sun;
>Health as well, | if a man may have it,
>And a life not stained with sin.

>>17276547
>barring from the fact that I copy pasted to match you retard
I wasn't the anon who originally posted it. In any event, you should have noticed the typo if you had any actual underlying familiarity with voluspa en skamma. Imagine I started going on and on about "Harvamas" instead of Havamal. Of course that would make me look less credible.
>the fact that you have to listen to any interpretation at all is pretty damning
I'm speaking objectively, not subjectively. You are objectively less credible because you failed to discover and obvious typo. Subjectively, I would have never found you persuasive, because I've read voluspa en skamma dozens of times and know its contents well.

>>17275679
Ne ne, anon kun
Is the jew satisfied with your slavery?

>>17276858
Sure, but they are supernatural in the sense they tall you what odin did or what spells he has. Not what he can do, what he does, how to relate to the gods, how to do rituals, what days to do them, how the supernatural relates to people...
>But the actual purpose of the religion is to make oneself a suitable vessel for divinity througn virtue so they may ascend to heaven and become an alfar, or ancestor spirit.
This is completely fabricated. Cope interpretation.
>>17276912
I copied and pasted from his reply. Coping on spelling doesn't deny the fact that my question is still not answered. If credibility based on reputation is your answer on (((Interpretation))) then virtually any retard can become reputable for their group. Case in point, leftist Neo"paganism". Your nietzschean POV is one of many and it will never be proven that that is how 8th century pagans thought. In fact, it might be an extremely flawed modernist lens your are trying to fit a bunch of myths around to fit your ideology. Fundamentally, a dress up.

>>17276984
Antisemitism is a christian tradition. Thank you for honouring it.

>>17277000
"But do not make vain repetitions like pagan do."
-El biblio.

Whats mantra?

>>17277000
Trips of truth

>>17277006
It's a Cainite gnostic tradition aswell, human trash kun. Must be the only thing we have in common.

>>17277011
Seething. Your entire worldview is inherently and indelibly christian.

>>17277006
>>17277168
>disapprove of the actions of jews upon observing their schemes
>uhh actually that makes you christian
Tradcel apologetics are absolutely desperate.

REMINDER THAT VARG IS AN ATHEIST AND HE OPENLY ADMITTED HE DOESN'T REALLY BELIEVE ODIN IS UP IN THE CLOUDS OR SOMETHING

>>17277200
you see, the pedohomo christcuck priests left him with some trauma, top kek

>>17276675
kek, #REKTIFIED

>>17277284
Pure cope with the fact that only through christianity does antisemitism make sense
>>17277200
Pagans want to talk about pedofilia?
>>17277292
actually seething LMAO.

>>17276546
>Not really.
Who are you to judge?
>It seems as the world became less and less pagan, things got better and better. In fact, the more the world became christian, the better it got,
You believe the world improved upon adopting you values, how surprising! I could have never guessed that. A pagan, with Pagan values, may disagree.
>There is no such thing as canon or doctrine in paganism.
Wrong. You may refer to the vast religious tradition in India and China for proof.
The mutability of pagan myth has more to do with them being orally transmitted than anything else. Once they were written down, such as in Greece, they ceased to be so fluid.
> as almost certainly is the concept of Valhalla.
Valhalla is not a christian interpolation. However, Christians did endevour to compare it to heaven, leaving all the other afterlifes of norse religion by the wayside (except Hel).
>If they are made up then it is clear paganism is atheism with a fashion trend.
Well, Pagans don't believe they are made up, of course. But that does not change public opinion on the matter. Gravitas does not spontaneously appear when you start a religion.
>In Christianity there is no doubt Jesus performed a miracle
In paganism there is no doubt Odin exists.

>>17277227
Varg is not the Pope of Pagan revivalism.

>>17277333
Why does my disapproval of a parasitic caste of people using nepotism to weasel into positions of power at the expense of their history nation depend on believing in Jesus?

>>17277345
because you can only hate your masters by being fully subservient to them

>>17277345
*host nation

>>17277348
This is how retarded christgolems are
>You criticize jews and their culture?
>You are a jew!
Never fails to work

>>17277333
DUBS and trips of truth AGAIN. God is certainly favouring one side here Fakegans

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>>17277374
>using chaos magic attributed to an Egyptian deity for divination

>>17277345
>>17277348
>>17277350
>>17277372
LMAO the retard resorted to samefagging due to seething over his obviously christian worldview.
>You will never be a 9th century pagan. You are an atheist who copes via an aesthetic. Sad!

>>17277334
>Who are you to judge?
Reddit tier argument
>You believe the world improved upon adopting you values, how surprising! I could have never guessed that. A pagan, with Pagan values, may disagree.
Perhaps. But I will need to find this pagan with pagan values. I don't think he exists anymore.
>The mutability of pagan myth has more to do with them being orally transmitted than anything else. Once they were written down, such as in Greece, they ceased to be so fluid.
The entirety of bacchanalia, mystery cults and philosophies sprang up after SOME of the tales were written down. The imperial cult was also later.
But you are right on one thing. To be more accurately pagan, you need be more like Indians KEK.
>Valhalla is not a christian interpolation. However, Christians did endevour to compare it to heaven, leaving all the other afterlifes of norse religion by the wayside (except Hel).
Valhalla was a later development not present in any germanic or indo European tradition until the 8-9th century when it came into contact with christianity. Same with light and dark elves.
>Pagans don't believe they are made up, of course.
Well because pagans don't exist truly. You have reenactment and larp.
>In paganism there is no doubt Odin exists.
True, unfortunately there are no pagans left

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>>17275679
Evola actually practised pagan rituals in secret you know? He was against the revival of a pagan religion like Rowsell advocates for, but he was in favour of esoteric paganism.

Evola was not a Christian. His idea of being a "catholic-pagan" means being outwardly, exoterically Catholic, but inwardly experiencing a pagan rite - esotericism.

The Catholic church is now so full of homosexuals and brown people that it is no longer reasonable to use it for an exoteric form to carry the true pagan Tradition. Therefore Rowsell's solution is far better. I am sure Evola would agree.

Also what we actually know about Paganism is something that can only be determined by people like Rowsell who actually studied the subject properly.

You are merely ignorant of the Tradition and are threatened by it because you are a spiritual Semite.

>>17277390
I am one of the guys you quoted, I am an atheist.
I dunno why rich upper class american zoomers or 3rd worlder shitskins want to larp as jewish zombie fans, but I don't care either way.

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>>17275728
Odin created the world. That is when the religion began. It is part of the world because it is the TRUE religion

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>>17277390
Please stop being a faggot and answer my question

>>17277414
You're a Third Worlder shitskin, Chud Anon.

>>17277432
Nigger, I am not the pag pag seanegro who cocksucks white fags like you.

doctrine and canon aren't a function of folk religion, retard. de-bureaucratize yourself.

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Has anyone else noticed that the amount of atheist/LARPagan threads on /his/ noticeably drops off on the Sabbath?

>>17277443
Yeah, sane people who aren't terminally online tradcath zoomers go outside.

>>17277443
Didn't notice because I don't post in this shithole on weekends, too busy throwing toilet paper rolls over my local synagogue.

>>17277443
>not being online on a Saturday is a jewish conspiracy
Bro....

>>17277467
>You don't get it, the JOOS pay their golems to go outside... and have fun!

>church
>fun
lel

>>17277475
Who doesn't like listening to middle aged and older larpers lecture you about jewish fairytales? Oh boy, best way to spend a sunday!

>>17277497
You are not white, Chud Anon.

>>17277428
Why does odin here have both his eyes. Did such a basic characteristic of his personality change?
>>17277411
I know that's why I pout it there. I'm less here trying to argue for christianity and more about ripping away the delusion that paganism can be reconstructed. Hence, Evola.
>>17277345
because To see them "weaselling in" is a christian interpretation. In a Spahn world view, these people are just hired. It is wrong for christians because jews shouldn't exist and they should not hold power over christians. Hence why Augustus was chill with Herod and Josephus being so chummy with the Flavians. Most pagans didn't mind. Only christians did.

>>17277000
>Not what he can do, what he does, how to relate to the gods, how to do rituals, what days to do them, how the supernatural relates to people...
That’s just because you’re misunderstanding the obvious significance of Runatal.
In hanging himself, Odin straddled the realm of infinite potential (the supernatural realm) and the mundane realm (Mithgarthr). He hung himself on the Irminsul and in that way he BECAME the Irminsul, a bridge between life and death, divinity and mortality.
This has obvious ritualistic ramifications for idols. For what is an idol but a mundane thing made to imitate the heavens? Something that exists between worlds and connects the two, like the three great roots of the world tree that run into all realms?
>Your nietzschean POV is one of many and it will never be proven that that is how 8th century pagans thought.
I’m not nietzschean at all. I’m a purely textual and archaeological heathen. If something cannot be reasonably argued from one of these sources, it is not pagan as far as I’m concerned.

>>17277506
In a pagan world view*

>>17277503
Khazarian larper is about to tell me about whiteness lel.

>>17277507
>That’s just because you’re misunderstanding...
hmmm
>the realm of infinite potential (the supernatural realm) and the mundane realm (Mithgarthr)
nowhere does it state this.
>He hung himself on the Irminsul
The tree is not specified. It's INTERPRETED as Irminsul.
> in that way he BECAME the Irminsul
Made up
>a bridge between life and death, divinity and mortality.
Just a theory.
>This has obvious ritualistic ramifications for idols.
Does it?
>For what is an idol but a mundane thing made to imitate the heavens?
Well it can be a powerful object, ritualistic tool, representation of a divine figure, a divinity in itself, just a work of art....
>Something that exists between worlds and connects the two, like the three great roots of the world tree that run into all realms?
AGAIN, this is purely interpretative. It's a speculation on an interpretation of a speculation of an interpretation of a speculation on a verse.
>I’m not nietzschean at all.
Fair enough. You are one of the rare ones. In any case because of the lack of continuity and the non direct nature of the sources, it's basically an educated guess relying on the few sources we do have. Its an exercise in futility

>>17277514
You do sound pretty maroon anon...

>voices in his head
yup, Khazarian larper alright

>>17277506
Appealing to the tolerance of Romans to justify modern problems is so profoundly retarded that I can't believe you can even type English.

>>17277537
You have to understand that English is derived from Old English which was derived from Latin. Yes, each iteration has users of substantially lower IQ.

>>17277503
Exactly, I am Greek and an atheist.

>>17277537
Appling tolerance of pagans to prove that jewish behaviours that are seen as bad today aren't inherent to people but only to those with a christian mindset.

>>17277168
>Your entire worldview is inherently and indelibly christian
Ok, let me tell where I lost you.

Christ and yhvh are a mistake, right? So that's the religion, and they get shanked, right?

So what's christian about it?

>>17277571
lost me at the first redditspace

>>17277568
I'm looking at this from a racial perspective though.

>>17277527
>The tree is not specified. It's INTERPRETED as Irminsul.
No, it is definitely Yggdrasil, which is the Irminsul. Yggdrasil means “The Stead of Yggr.” Yggr is a byname of Odin, and calling a noose a “stead” is an old Norse joke. Yggdrasil literally means “The tree Odin hung himself on”
>Just a theory.
A little bit, but not really. Fafnismal only makes sense if my interpretation is correct. Why would a dying dragon suddenly develop incredibly powerful magical abilities (the ability to curse and kill someone by knowing only their name) as soon as he begins to bleed to death? Why would a dying dragon suddenly become a font of wisdom and knowledge when throughout the lays of Sigurthr he has just been acting like a fucking psychotic crack fiend for Andvari’s gold?

>>17275679

>and THAT is why you should worship the Canaanite storm god and his son (who is himself), the circumcised Rabbi of Nazareth

No.

Doctrine and canon is literally made up, it's not exactly hard to produce doctrine and canon

One thing I noticed is it's all muh tradition and ancentorz and shit until most "trad" pagans encounter something like Kybele's cult/Artimpasa and they either purposely ignore it or deny it.

>>17277617
It's all muh tradition and anceztorz until we remember that Jesus is a Jewish name.

>>17277587
Oh, also, it completely slipped my mind, Odin’s trance in Grimnismal is another example of of straddling life and death bringing about great power and wisdom.
The evil king Geirroth tied Odin up and set him between two roaring bonfires for 9 days, much like when Odin hanged himself for 9 days in Runatal.
This motif shows up constantly. If is technically a theory, but on account of its ubiquity, I think you would have to concede that it is at least an incredibly strong theory.

>>17277626
And? I'm not a christian, lmao.
Pagans don't get a free pass for their bullshit because of muh Jews.

>>17277646
>I am not a christian
You are definitely a jew golem, whether you believe in an extra prophet or two is largely irrelevant.

>>17277646
>European culture doesn't get a pass, um well, um because jewish culture is le better or something!
ok jew

>>17275804
It kind of is though, sadly enough

>>17277658
>>17277671
I see intellectual dishonesty it's actually a bigger problem in pagans circles than I thought.

>>17277683
I see being a smarmy tradcath zoomer is an incurable disease.

>>17277683
>hurr muh intellectual dishonesty
all religions are brainrot for midwits and total retards, all intelligent people are atheists, is that intellectually honest enough for you?
If I wanted a religion, I'd pick one that my ancestors came up with, not a jew, kill yourself, insufferable tranny.

>>17277686
>>17277690
Lmao. Again, not a follower of Abrahamic religions, and certainly not a trad larper of any sort.
>I'd pick one that my ancestors came up with
Even if those religions includes things you don't like today... like tranny priets?

>>17277720
>Even if those religions includes things you don't like today... like tranny priets?
Yes. Or is that a bit too intellectually honest for you to own your own culture, when you don't even hate one, you filthy kike?

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>>17277617
Nah I'm not a social conservative, this doesn't bother me. Human passion is a real force. Sacred whores are no different than directing the rage of young men to a righteous cause like war.

>>17275679
Why do you care so much about that "pagans"?

>>17277785
Nothing worse to a jew than a goy whose religion is his own.

>>17277580
The term antisemitism was de facto created and popularised by the German Wilhelm Marr to give a more scientific term to the christian anti jewish sentiment in the late 1800s. This was the time of pogroms and whatnot but because englightenment pseudoscholrs basically made stuff like bloodline uncool and anti judaism as archaic, he basically modernised the term to refer to a cultural understanding. Later on it took a racial characteristic. But that's the thing, they were basically updating and modernising the sentiment and viewpoint that christianity had. It's why race consciousness without christianity would be relatively insufficient. German jews who are ashkenazi are genetically far more Northern European (though on average they plot on the same level as Italians) due to heavy admixture. Germany would have persecuted southern germans (Swabians and bavarians are distinct genetically from northern ones) long before they would have turned their eye on jews.

>>17277629
>>17277587
I mean desu 9 is generally INFERRED to be an important number in norse mythology. So it would make sense for it to be repeated.
>No, it is definitely Yggdrasil
Not really because it isn't mentioned in the text. It's inferred/interpreted as such but it's not stated anywhere that this is the case. Just a tree with no roots. Could mean anything strictly speaking.
>Why would a dying dragon suddenly develop incredibly powerful magical abilities (the ability to curse and kill someone by knowing only their name) as soon as he begins to bleed to death? Why would a dying dragon suddenly become a font of wisdom and knowledge when throughout the lays of Sigurthr he has just been acting like a fucking psychotic crack fiend for Andvari’s gold?
It also could make sense as a story telling device, much how Vergil is a guide for Dante without christians actually believing that Vergil would have been given such a task. It makes sense because you need it to make sense for a purpose. I mean desu in the Pharsalia by Lucan, Pompey is given a prophecy by a zombie. Not necessarily anything more than that.

>>17277678
I don't think so :)

>>17277748
aka hedonistic epicurean nihilism.

>>17275797
>Neo-Pagans badly need someone to claim to have had visions of the gods speeking to him and write down all his schizo ramblings to a book.
That's me I'm doing this, but I actually do communicate with spirits while doing psychedelic drugs.

>>17277974
>controlled passion
>hedonism
I guess I'm a nihilist for fucking my wife.

>>17277955
>Not really because it isn't mentioned in the text

>So we have this story about Odin hanging on a tree, and it would also appear that the Irminsul is called “The tree Odin was hanged on” but uh I don’t know that doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a correlation
come on, now
>Just a tree with no roots.
It’s a tree “whose roots grow in a place no man has ever seen,” not a tree with no roots. Yggdrasils roots would be invisible to men because they exist outside the realm of mundanity/ Mithgarthr (they extend into Hel and Jotunheimar, the supernatural world)
>Not necessarily anything more than that.
ok so explain why Odin resurrects dead witches to receive the most important prophecies in both Voluspa and Baldrs Draumar. I’m telling you, this motif is everywhere. Saying “Whatever, it’s probably a coincidence” seems to me to be highly inadequate.

>>17275739
>unless you worship this magical demigod dead jew and his jew god father you're larping!!!!

>>17277348
ohohohoho, fucking #REKT

>>17277972
How do you think it works?

>>17277980
Fastest back-pedalling seen on the board. Impressive.
>Shows a picture of a bacchanalia orgy with fauns
>"Nah I'm not a social conservative"
>Proclaims that prostitution and public degeneracy are good
>When called out he immediately says "uh uh I meant CONTROLLED PASSION, I AM WHOLESOME FAMILY MAN.
Embarrassing. I actually pathetic.

>>17277983
>Come on now
No? Just because it's "likely" that it was that doesn't mean it is. It's a good interpretation ,but it is an interpretation. It could as well been meant with Noose of odin the tree where sacrifices for odin was done. But still it does not matter because you fundamentally do not know this.
> It’s a tree “whose roots grow in a place no man has ever seen,”
Fair enough, hasty typing on my end. Still it could equally mean a tree that nobody knows because else you'd be able to find it and "attempt" at doing what odin did.
>ok so explain why Odin resurrects dead witches to receive the most important prophecies in both Voluspa and Baldrs Draumar. I’m telling you, this motif is everywhere. Saying “Whatever, it’s probably a coincidence” seems to me to be highly inadequate.
1). Highly inadequate but still possible. And the fact that it is possible means that it is uncertain.
2)
> I’m telling you, this motif is everywhere
to be fair, this motif is everywhere in any mythological setting. You'd hardly ask someone for hidden knowledge amongst the normal living because they are part of the normal plain. Aka Dante with various souls, Greek myth whenever they go in the underworld, King Saul and the witch, Gilgamesh and dead enkidu....
Archetypes exist as well....

In any case I enjoy talking to you. You are probably more honest and more "pagan" than a bunch of these retards who scream because they have IQ of an Albanian. (probably related as well)

>>17278548
>public degeneracy
That is?

>>17278594
Your pic describes it pretty well

>>17278594
They're having heterosexual intercourse, which is the most abominable thing imaginable to the catboi.

>>17277506
>Why does odin here have both his eyes.
Because he's a fucking God, anon. He can show with as many eyes as he wants.

>>17278838
kek

>>17278835
Pagans and heterosexual do not belong in the same room.

>>17278590
>It could as well been meant with Noose of odin the tree where sacrifices for odin was done
The nature of the old norse joke is that you would say that the noose someone was killed with was their "horse" (presumably because you "rode" the noose to your death), so Yggdrasil must mean "The tree where Odin died by hanging" rather than it being a tree where Odin kills others by hanging them.
>find it and "attempt" at doing what odin did.
You can do what Odin did. Well, you can't conquer death, unfortunately, but you can, if only in an extremely de minimis way, straddle the two realms. The importance of Odin hanging himself on Yggdrasil is not that the tree gave his sacrifice especial potency, it's for the symbolism of straddling the mundane realm and the spirit realm while connected via a rope to a tree which also, famously, straddles the mundane and supernatural realm (Yggdrasil's roots run into Mithgarthr and Hel, which is contiguous with Jotunheimar and Asgarthr, making these 3 realms, collectively, the "spirt" realm.). It's compounded symbolism meant to drive home a point.
>Highly inadequate but still possible. And the fact that it is possible means that it is uncertain.
Well sure, it is of course all theories of mine. None are technically definitively proven or even provable, but I think that the evidence for my interpretations is pretty substantial.
(1/2)

>>17279068
>>17278590
>to be fair, this motif is everywhere in any mythological setting.
It's not so much the fact that it exists as the fact that it comes up literally dozens of times in norse mythology. A basic inventory of the top of my head
>Voluspa: Odin resurrects a dead witch to hear the fate of the world at Ragnarok; also the anecdote about a witch named Heith being burned to death 3 separate times in Odin's hall and always coming back. She is said to do good fortune-telling for the gods, but she seemingly betrays them at one point
>Havamal: Odin obtaining the runes via sacrificing himself to himself
>Grimnismal: Odin's trance after being scorched for 9 days
>Baldrs Draumar: Odin resurrects a dead witch as in Voluspa
>Voluspa en Skamma kind of follows the general format of normal Voluspa, though we aren't actually told that Hyndla is dead when Freyja converses with her
Helgakvitha Hundingsbana II: Helgi ascending to godhood after his death
>Fafnismal: the evil man/dragon Fafnir becomes impossibly wise and magically potent as he lays dying
>Atlakvitha: Attila the Hun begins receiving supernatural premonitions regarding the destruction of his house and his own demise
even outside of the poetic edda, you have this theme repeated in Icelandic Sagas like the poem Hervararkvitha/ Waking of Angantyr in Hervararssaga ok Heithreks.

>>17279034
Damn you guys really got btfoed by that pepperspraying video huh lmfao

>>17277926
>literally everything that's ever happened in the last 2000 years of Western thought is christian
>but christian thought existed in a vacuum with no prior European pagan influence

>>17277926
Sounds like a bunch of seethe and cope for every Christian denomination on the planet holding funding Israel as a necessary condition for getting into heaven. You should probably check out what Julian, or literally any Pagan ever, had to say on Jews before inventing strawmen.

>>17275679
Paganlarper sodomites are not better than christniggers that they so much attack here

>>17279946
sodomy is a name of jewish city that was so gay that it's written into bible and remembered for 2000+ years, stop projecting, faggot

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>>17279946
if a viking berserkr and a teutonic knight from the northern crusades were brought back to life and shown your post they would both team up to kill you in horrific and painful ways

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Nice consensus you got there

>>17280510
They’re both right. Germanic polytheists do not believe in a hard division of matter and spirit, the two are intertwined and closely related. The differentiation is, as with anything in Germanic polytheism, one of priority. It’s a gradient, basically, as opposed to each thing— matter and spirit— each constituting one discrete thing.
Humans are matter, and magic is spirit, but the Holy Gods are both matter and spirit.

Has anyone read Edward Butler's book on Proclus? He argues for polytheism using concepts from neoplatonism

>>17275709
kek /thread

>>17280151
>>17280136
Paganlarpers sodomites have an fair point i admite

>>17275679
she's right, the only living "pagan" religions are hinduism and watsdin

>>17277506
Same reason baby Jesus isn't depicted nailed to a cross.

evola was a pagan. If you read ALL his works you can come to no other conclusion.

>>17277543
Latin comes from English actually. So does Sanskrit. English was the first human language

>>17275679
No diferent from christianity
No real mention of Jesus until like 100-200 years after death
Same shadow worship