So how many Soviets actually believed in the ebin worldwide worker's revolution and how many of them were just nationalists that saw the Soviet Union as a continuation of the Russian empire or whatever country they inhabitated? Given the amount Communist religions iconography and artwork depicting Tsar Nicholas with Lenin or Stalin makes me think that a lot of Russians who miss the Soviet Union don't actually care about Communism and instead miss the global power the USSR had.
>>17278604Most of it was just Nationalism, in the same way Christianity and other religions were used to justify practical actions that would have received less support otherwise. This becomes obvious once Stalin was in charge and its also why internationalists attack nationalism so hard. The national socialists wee at least upfront about their their nationalism and didn't behind pretty moralism.
As an Orthodox I don't understand how Latins (Papists and Prots) have a problem with this. Separation of church and state is an invention of the enlightenment
>>17278834You don't understand how we might raise an eyebrow to the Orthodox Church sucking up to a totalitarian atheist regime that did everything it its power to destroy you?
>>17278844If it had done everything in its power, the Orthodox Church wouldn't exist right now.
>>17278851I meant to say "tried to do everything in its power".Cute way of not answering my question.
>>17278851>The state is merciful because instead killing all of us they just killed some of us and then infiltrated the church for it's own political purposes
>>17278834Because despite what Trads claim the Church will end up working for the state and simply become a tool used by the state to justify it's action and spread it's influence
>>17278604Average joe didnt give a shit about ideology or nationalism, Lenin promised peace and bread and they believed him and followed him.
>>17278858It didn't even try. It's subject to populism as much as anything else. The public liked their churches. Keeping churches around let the party aim the public's energy elsewhere and not at itself.
>>17278604>So how many Soviets actually believed in the ebin worldwide worker's revolution and how many of them were just nationalists that saw the Soviet Union as a continuation of the Russian empire or whatever country they inhabitated?Soviet citizens believed wholeheartedly and without any reserve in a worldwide worker's revolution and the establishment of global socialism - provided that it was all subservient to Soviet Russia as global hegemon and Vanguard. After all, all animals are equal - but some are more equal than others.
>>17278834Caesaro-papism is not the opposite of separation of church and state, it is the prostitution of the church to the state, whichever that state might happen to be including and especially states with official religious openly hostile to the church, such as the Muslim Ottomans and the atheist Bolsheviks.
>>17278871>It didn't even try.https://historyforatheists.com/2021/01/the-great-myths-10-soviet-atheism/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mY0y6wnoEEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3bwQ956V1E
>>17278876>After all, all animals are equal - but some are more equal than othersreddit
>>17278844All rulers are appointed by God. I'm pretty sure even Latins believe this . Anyways even the most commie person in the Soviet era was a creation of God . Recently there was a controversy with the depiction of Stalin in a church in Georgia. I personally have no problem with this as long as it's a depiction of history and he doesn't have a halo around it's head
>>17278863The best thing they could have done was to let it die a slow death like Hitler said, since they would have to face unnecessary revolts if they went all out. Christianity feeds off sacrificial martyrs - so it made sense not to do it, but with subversion instead. Imagine the backlash from their enemies as well? now they have an excuse to go to war.
>>17279407They learned from the spanish civil war since all that did was give their enemies more fuel and excuses.
>>17278868I mean people forget the Church proper (east and west) as they know it was the Roman state religion and it only spread as it did because of that. It would have been a dead Judaic syncretic cult only appealing to levantine peoples otherwise. You could see how weak Christianity became in the middle east once they lost support from Constantinople and when the Muslims started doubling down on their power.
>>17279444Now just insert Putin and any other future Russian leader and now you see why the orthobro movement that came out of nowhere. Its all stealth Russian nationalism and/or its meant to lean you towards the influence of the Russians and their world. Why should give a shit about Slavic saints and culture now that i'm orthodox? do people not see how obvious it is?, even Dostoevsky and his obvious nationalist fervor disguised under "orthodoxy", when we all know he was pushed by the tsar for propaganda purposes. None of it is even subtle.
>>17279468It's like the eastern version of Qanon
>>17278926>All rulers are appointed by God. I'm pretty sure even Latins believe this .Anyways even the most commie person in the Soviet era was a creation of God>Recently there was a controversy with the depiction of Stalin in a church in Georgia. I personally have no problem with this as long as it's a depiction of history and he doesn't have a halo around it's headt. most autonomistic Orthodox faithfulto perform on the behalf of a literal would-be international state of godlessness dedicated to the violent, oft-time foolish optimization of "human resources" in a context of production, and using it as a measure of human progress.My misguided brother, you WERE the Whore of Babylon, feeding your offspring directly into the maws of the Beast.
>>17278824>Most of it was just NationalismNationalism is a funny word here. I'm not so sure it was nationalism, but a substitute for monarchism with some strange parallels. This comparison might seem crazy, but both monarchism and communism fashioned an identity and state ideology in such a way to transcend nationalities, providing a source of loyalty and ideological cohesion not tied to race or to specific historical ethnic groupings. The unraveling of the USSR also occurred as Yeltsin made appeals to Russia over the Soviet identity. Both monarchism and communism also embraced a fundamentally non-capitalist, non-bourgeois conception of the state and its role in society and its relation to the market economy, and such systems have coexisted very uneasily in the modern era with aspects of bourgeois society such as the free market, the free press, freedom of individual speech, etc.>>17278863>The state is merciful because instead killing all of us they just killed some of us and then infiltrated the church for it's own political purposesStalin didn't just kill "some" of them, he killed a lot of them, although he didn't kill "all" of them either. I think anons are focusing a bit too much on the soft tolerance of the church that happened later, but the purges swept up clergy in a whirlwind of terror and murder. >>17279416>They learned from the spanish civil war since all that did was give their enemies more fuel and excuses.You guys have no clue... the anti-religious persecutions in the Soviet Union during the 1930s were massive in scale and unparalleled in their scope and intensity and far beyond what happened in Spain. Tens of thousands of priests, monks, clergy, etc. were physically annihilated by a totalitarian government as a matter of state policy.
>>17278824Nationalism is just a natural feeling like the sense of being part of any other group. People that deny nationalism are fighting against human nature.
>>17278604>a lot of Russians who miss the Soviet Union don't actually care about CommunismBro, Americans spent more time being taught about Marxism than Soviets ever did because of "know your enemy" red scare
