>Judaism and Jewish mythology is well sourced, can be traced back to the pre-Babylonian period>the Greek Pantheon mythology also goes back many centuries and is well attested to>Christianity grew out of Judaism with some Roman, Hellenic, and Persian influence>fast forward to 2nd and 3rd century>Gnostic text emerge with extremely convoluded mythology and never-before-seen characters like Sophia and Barbelo and Yaldabaoth etc.Where did all this shit come from? Usually, religion and mythology can be traced back to earlier myths. But none of these Gnostic figures and their myths have any precedents in either Greek or Jewish mythology.Did the Gnostics just come up with all of them in the 2nd century from out of nowhere? Or did they come from some pre-Christian mystery cults that kept their lore secret until the Gnostics adopted some of their beliefs?
>>17283292>>Judaism and Jewish mythology is well sourced, can be traced back to the pre-Babylonian periodNot so fast. Plagiarisms written by Greeks don't count.
>>17283292It was revealed to humanity but Jesus and corrupted by the disciples that were controlled by the archons of the demiurge into what we know as the modern Church. Mary was the only one not mind broken to understand what he was trying to teach.
>>17283292>>Judaism and Jewish mythology is well sourced, can be traced back to the pre-Babylonian periodStopped reading there, OP is a retard
>>17283292HOHOHOHHAHAHAHJudaism is plagiarized Zoroastrianism. There is no evidence they conjured up anything of their own or that anything in Judaism is original.
>>17283292>never-before-seen characters like Sophia and Barbelo and Yaldabaoth etc.Cope.>Sophia (Koinē Greek: σοφία, sophía—"wisdom") is a central idea in Hellenistic philosophy and religion, Platonism, Gnosticism and Christian theology. Originally carrying a meaning of "cleverness, skill", the later meaning of the term, close to the meaning of phronesis ("wisdom, intelligence"), was significantly shaped by the term philosophía ("love of wisdom") as used by Plato>Proverbs 9:1 states, “Wisdom has built her house; / she has set up its seven pillars.” >Following the description given in the Book of Proverbs, a dwelling place was assigned by the Gnostics to the Sophia and her relation to the upper world was defined as well as to the seven planetary powers placed under her. The seven spheres, planets or heavens were for the ancients the highest regions of the created universe. They were thought of as seven circles rising one above another and dominated by the seven Archons, the Hebdomad>In the Sumerian myth Inanna's Descent to the Underworld, dated between 1900 and 1600 BCE, Dumuzi's wife Inanna, the Queen of Heaven, wrongly tried to conquer the netherworld as well, which was ruled by her sister Ereshkigal, the Sumerian version of the Greek goddess Persephone. To get to the underworld, Inanna had to bypass seven celestial gates that symbolized the seven conjunctions Venus makes with the waning moon. To pass each of the seven gates, she was forced to remove more and more of her jewelry and clothing until she finally met her sister in the underworld naked, after which Ereshkigal instantly killed her and hung her on a stake
>>17283856>Inanna as Venus, like Jesus, stayed “dead” for three days, and was then “resurrected” when she rose from the horizon, representing the three days that Venus disappears between the appearance of the morning and evening star. According to the myth, Dumuzi's father Enki resurrected Inanna with the plant and water of life, but the gods demanded that Inanna provide a substitute for the netherworld. Seeing that Dumuzi was not mourning her death, she chose him as her substitute in a fit of anger but then quickly regretted it. Thus, Inanna may have been the first dying-and-rising deity and it may be that Dumuzi simply inherited this motif from her, but in most later representations of the myth it was only the young shepherd god and not his lover/wife who acted as the dying-and-rising god>When Inanna chose Dumuzi as her substitute, the demons first tried to apprehend him while he is beneath his apple tree. Dumuzi tries to escape him, which is common motif in these myths, but he is eventually taken as a substitute into the Underworld Inanna then convinced her sister Ereshkigal to allow Dumuzi to return half the year, symbolizing the changing of the seasons just as does in the Greek myth of the dying-and-rising god Adonis, and before him Persephone. A depiction of Dumuzi's resurrection shows him rising out from the ground from beneath the same Tree of Life where he was killed. Both Jewish and Christian tradition from various apocryphal texts holds that Golgotha, the location where Jesus was crucified, was also the same location where Adam died, and that the name “Place of the Skull” referred to Adam's skull. “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Cor. 15:22)
>>17283872>The idea that Wisdom was corrupted as it entered the material world has a correlation in Gnostic thought. In Gnostic mythology, the Sophia is said to have descended through seven planetary spheres to the earth in a similar fashion to Inanna's descent through seven gates to the underworld. In both cases, the material world as we know it is created through some great error of the feminine principle equivalent to Eve or Pandora. To the Gnostics, Wisdom's error is what caused the world to become imperfect by giving birth to an imperfect Creator, the Demiurge. Dumuzi, like Jesus, ends up as the spiritual scapegoat, suffering for hers sins but eventually being freed>Barbelo is the androgynous syzygy of the ultimate ground of being or Divine Source referred to as Bythos (Depth/Abyss)>Tehom (Hebrew: תְּהוֹם təhôm) is a Northwest Semitic and Biblical Hebrew word meaning "the deep” or “abyss” (literally “the deeps”). It is used to describe the primeval ocean and the post-creation waters of the earth. It is a cognate of the Akkadian words tiāmtum and tâmtum as well as Ugaritic t-h-m which have similar meanings>Robert R. Stieglitz stated that Eblaitic texts demonstrate the equation of the goddess Berouth in the mythology of Sanchuniathon with Ugaritic thmt and Akkadian Tiâmat, as the sea was called tihamatum, and also buʾrâtum = Canaanite beʾerôt ("fountains")>Wallis Budge was quick to note that the religious pantheons of both Mesopotamia and Egypt were virtually identical. In comparing the Enuma Elish/Seven Tablets of Creation with Egyptian pyramid texts, he finds the same pantheon of gods in both East and West—a divine ogdoad composed of pairs of divinities, four male and four female. At the head of the Egyptian pantheon is the divine pair Nu(n) and his consort Nut. Nun was closely associated with the substance water
>>17283891>His divine sign includes three vases of water (conveying the sound), together with the substantive for water (three wavy lines one above the other). Nu “has been compared with the Coptic word NOUN, ‘abyss, deep’… Nu was the inert mass of water matter from which the world was created” (Gods 284)>The eight deities of the Egyptian Ogdoad are Nun and Naunet, Amon and Amaunet, Kek and Kauket, Heh and Hauhet, each representing primordial elements in ancient Egyptian cosmology>Their Sumerian equivalents are: Abzu and Tiamat, Anu and Urash, Lahmu and Lahamu, Anshar and Kishar>Budge observes: “Apzu-rishtu and Mummu-Tiamat are the exact equivalents in the Babyonian cosmology of Nu and Nut in the Egyptian…” (Gods 289). Apzu-rishtu (lit. “Deep-Water-First One”) is the progenitor of Ea/Enki, the father of hidden truth whose home was the deep water (Abzu/gnosis) and whom we have already met in these posts. Tiamat is “the name of the female counterpart of Apzu-rishtu” (Gods 288). Budge continues:>… Now up to this point the three pairs of gods of the Assyrians agree exactly with the first three pairs of gods of the oldest Egyptian company of the gods, and the points of resemblance are striking…
>>17283292I think a useful starting point is to stop thinking of these names as proper nouns and more as descriptions.Sophia means 'wisdom' and she is a personification of wisdom and the seeking of knowledge. A euhemrization of a personality trait. she's not perfect because seeking knowledge is a dangerous path.For Barbelo you should be familiar with Late Platonic philosophy/religion. Their name probably references what they are. A bubbling up or overflow of the central One. This is a key part of Platonic cosmology. That everything that exists is an emanation of the One. Either like waves or like an overfilled pot spilling over. So they are the primary emanation of the One. The closest to them.Yaldabaoth comes in as a twist on the Craftsman of Plato's cosmology. The one that builds the world out of matter. In Platonism the Craftsman is a good being. One trying their best to make perfection out of terminally imperfect matter. Gnostics twisted that around, so the Craftsman is either a fool or malicious. Yaldabaoth as a description is variable. It could be a direct play on a number of titles YHWH is given, representing Gnosticism's battles with Christianity and Judaism. Or it could reference it being shameful or chaotic.I'd say that Gnosticism is to Late Platonism as Luciferianism is to Christianity, in that it exists substantially as a counterpoint to it.
>>17283302Well, yeah, this is kind of what I mean. Elements of the Old Testament can be traced back to earlier traditions, this is one example (the flood myth can also be traced back to Sumerian myths). It's not really "plagarism", just how religions evolve, this can be expected.But where the fuck all the Gnostic bullshit with Aeons and such come from?
>>17283920Interesting, but isn't Late Platonism another name for Neoplatonism, which came after the Gnostics?
>>17283982They came into shape alongside one another. Gnosticism had centuries of development and iteration within its canon.Middle Platonism is a pretty vague concept to nail down. There were a lot of threads and some were definitely a big influence on Gnosticism. So you are correct that the starting point of Gnosticism does predate late Platonism. But Plotinus's late Platonism was hugely important at the time and is coherently systemic. He had big criticisms of his contemporary Gnostic rivals and some of his ideas were played on by the Gnostics from the other side.
>>17284017Plotinus and his direct influences revived the cosmological aspects of Platonism for real, after they'd heavily been left behind.The 200s was still extremely early for Christianity and Gnosticism both in their development and canonization.But those just before Plotinus should not be discounted either.
>>17284030Numenius was probably one of the more important Platonists within this little corner. As he had a particularly close relationship with early Christianity.
>>17283897>Tertullian's Against the Valentinians gives a slightly different sequence. The first eight of these 30 Aeons, corresponding to generations one through four below, are referred to as the Ogdoad>In that system, the pre-existent, transcendent aeon, called Forefather- also called Foresource and Depth-coexists with his consort, Thought- also called Grace and Silence (figure 1). Depth impregnates Silence, and she brings forth Mind - also called Only Begotten, Father, and Source of All. At the same time Mind is generated, so too is his onsort, Truth. Thus, Irenaeus claims, Depth, Silence, Mind, and Truth are the first, original Pythagorean tetraktys, and are what they call "the root of all.">Whether this quartet of aeons is truly equivalent to a Pythagorean tetraktys remains to be seen, but their arrangement in a hierarchy of one male-female pair over another provides the model for subsequent emanations. Mind begets Word and his consort Life; Word and Life beget Man and Church. Thus is formed the Ogdoad, made up of two Tetrads, one over the other. Word and Life, after begetting Man and Church, project another five pairs of aeons, called the Decad. Man and Church themselves project six pairs of aeons, the Dodecad. Thus, all the emanations combined- the Pleroma -constitute the Triacontad, arranged in three groups: Odgoad, Decad, and Dodecad>The Father-that is, the Forefather, not Mind (who also goes by this name)-then projects through Only Begotten yet another entity, Limit. Limit, who has no consort, is called by five other names: Cross, Redeemer, Fruitbearer, Limiter, and Transferrer. The entity is thought of as a hexagon that delimits and supports the internal Pleroma. Limit has two powers, a stabilizing one and a divisive one.15 Insofar as Limit stabilizes, it is the Cross; in its dividing activity it acts as Limit proper. Thus, Limit and Cross are opposite functions of the same entity
>>17284064>The assignment of odd-numbered aeons to males and even-numbered to females draws from the Pythagorean symbolic associations of gender with odd and even (see excursus B2). By naming each of the male and female aeons the Valentinians allude to the ancient practice, attested in Philolaus, Xenocrates, and others, of assigning to the numbers one through ten to various gods and goddesses, based partly on the criterion of gendered number. The Valentinians describe aeonic projection as a sexual function. This imagery plays upon and reinforces the Pythagorean tendency to describe in sexual terms the relationship between the monad and the dyad, or the intercourse between odd and even numbers. We need not concern ourselves here with a lengthy explanation of how the Valentinians, Irenaeus's first group specifically, constructed gender per se; our main purpose is to note merely that Pythagorean arithmetic, along with its sexual vocabulary, occupies a central place.>Also noteworthy is the Valentinian emphasis on fours, and on the tetraktys, a term drawn from Pythagorean arithmology (see excursus B3). The Ogdoad consists of two tetrads, one above the other, and a succession of four syzygies. That is, the Ogdoad has two structures, each of which is built upon the symbolic number four. And in imitation of the Tetrad the Lord who descends for the salvation of Achamoth's offspring takes on a fourfold character, probably intended to contrast with humanity's threefold nature (on which, see below). The importance to Valentinians of the number four as a principle of organizing both the upper realm of the Pleroma and the Lord's mission of salvation prompts Irenaeus to recall the Pythagorean association. The first Tetrad of Depth, Thought, Mind, and Truth, Irenaeus claims, "is the first and original Pythagorean tetraktys, which they also call 'the root of all'
>>17284088>My own explanation is that the Ogdoad is a natural consequence of the expansion of the primary Tetrad, just as the Decad, the Dodecad, and the full Triacontad are the result of the expansion of the Ogdoad. This is not the only explanation. The number eight was clearly an early Christian symbol, enshrined in Christ's day of resurrection and other ancient Christian symbols. As will become more evident as this study progresses, the Valentinians merged the Christian symbol with Pythagorean lore, thereby creating at the center of their system an Ogdoad that had two sources>This encounter between the Savior and Achamoth results in a tripartition of reality outside the Pleroma. Through her passion comes matter; through her repentance, the soulish realm; through her pregnancy, the spiritual. Of these three things, she is able to shape only two of them, the soulish and the material, since she is not superior to spiritual substance. She takes the lessons- μαθήματα, the mathematics, if you will-imparted to her by the Savior, and shapes out of the soulish material an entity called God the Father. This is the king of all things, both the soulish and the material, corresponding to the right and left sides. Unaware that he is being moved by his mother, this Father, whom they also call Mother-Father, Fatherless, and Demiurge, creates soulish things on the right and material things on the left, becoming father to the former, and to the latter, king. The resultant material creation is Resolution's attempt to honor the Pleroma of aeons>Out of the soulish substance the Demiurge creates heavenly things and things that are light and lofty. The Demiurge, for creating the seven heavens, is called the Hebdomad, and Achamoth is called the Ogdoad, thus "preserving the number of the original, first Ogdoad of the Pleroma." As the Ogdoad, she is also the Intermediate Region, bridging the material universe and the Pleroma
>>17284105>As the Ogdoad, she is also the Intermediate Region, bridging the material universe and the Pleroma. Out of material substance, the Demiurge creates earthly things, and things that are heavy and lowly. From the three emotional extremes Resolution experienced while outside the Pleroma - fear, grief, and astonishment-perplexity - come the creatures and the material elements of the universe. From fear come the souls of men and animals; from grief, the devil and his demons. From astonishment-perplexity comes earth; from fear, water; from grief, air. Just as ignorance is latent in all three emotions, so fire, the fourth material element, is latent in all three elements. In the creation, that of the creatures and the elements, the Demiurge acts without reflecting on or knowing what he is creating, since it is Achamoth who initiates and governs the creation. The Demiurge's ignorance is so profound that he is unaware of the spiritual realms, and so considers himself to be the only god: "I am God, there is none besides me.' >KHRONOS (Chronos) was the primordial god of time. In the Orphic cosmogony he emerged self-formed at the dawn of creation. Khronos was envisaged as an incorporeal god, serpentine in form, with three heads--that of a man, a bull, and a lion. He and his consort, the serpentine goddess Ananke (Inevitability), enveloped the primordial world-egg in their coils and split it apart to form the ordered universe of earth, sea and sky. After this act of creation the couple circled the cosmos driving the rotation of heaven and the eternal passage of time>The figure of Khronos was essentially a cosmological double of the Titan Kronos (Cronus) ("Father Time"). The Orphics sometimes merged Khronos with the creator-god Phanes, and also equated him with the Titan Ophion. His equivalent in the Phoenician cosmogony was probably Olam (Eternal Time) whose name is written Oulomos in Greek transcripts
>>17284119>Chnoubis was one of the 36 Egyptian Decans, each of which occupied 10 degrees of the Zodiac. His image consists of two elements: a snake's body and a lion's head emanating rays. A similar god was raised to the status of supreme deity by doctrinal circles close to Gnosticism. The idea that the supreme god had the form of a lion and a snake was, as we have seen, held by gnosticizing non-Christian Magi, who invoked him with the words: “Hail, Serpent, indomitable Lion”>In their passionate quest for the true image of the Hebrew god, Bible scholars must have noticed that the word YHWH resembled the Aramaic HYWAH, ‘animal’. There are traces of this thinking in Gnostic treatises (i.e. Origin of the World (NHC II,5) 114; 119; Origen, Cels. VI 30, etc.) in which the Hebrew god, Ialdabaoth, together with the other Archons of the planetary spheres, had the form of an animal, especially that of a lion. It was widely believed by Gnostics that the Kosmokrator, the Lord of the World, had the form of a snake. In the Apocryphon of John (NHC II,1; III,I; IV,1; BG 8502,2,10) we read that Ialdabaoth “had the form of a dragon, the face of a lion with fiery eyes darting lightning and flames ... and (Sophia) wrapped him in a shining cloud...”. This corresponds exactly to a description of Chnoubis, as does that of the indomitable Lion-Serpent, to whom however prayers were offered>On gems his name often appears as Chnoubis, undoubtedly because this god was identified with the Egyptian creator god Khnum. In Egypt Khnum was worshipped mainly in Syene/Elephantine as the god of the Nile flood... also identified with the Agathodaimon*, the Egyptian snake with a human head, the Lord of Destiny
>>17284165>Encyclopaedia of Islam, p.3 (edit. K. Fleet, et al.): “In the Hellenistic period, Agathodaimon became the patron god of Alexandria and was often portrayed as a serpent. The Egyptian writer Manetho (third century B.C.E.) named him among the old kings of his country. Agathodaimon also became a prominent figure in the half-philosophical, half-religious literature of Hermeticism that had its origins in Egypt…”>The image of Chnoubis, the serpent with a lion's head emanating rays, was reproduced over and over again on emerald-green stones. Chnoubis was certainly one of the figures most often seen on magical gems. The rays encircling his head have always been considered proof that Chnoubis was a sun-god. This has a positive connotation, evoking the luminous nature of the Gnostic and astrological god of the pole, who had the form of a snake or a lion>Another problem is posed by recurring inscriptions describing Chnoubis as the conqueror of giants… In a complex ‘Hebrew’ exorcism performed in the name of the Hebrew God, attributed to the Egyptian magus Pibechis, the Hebrew god Sabaoth is invoked and hailed as ‘he who destroyed the giants with lightning’. Several parts of this text are inspired by Rabbinic tradition, confirming how deeply rooted the theme of giants and of Chnoubis gigantorekta was in Judaic doctrine… The identification of Chnoubis with the Hebrew god explains the title ‘he who broke (or stifled) the giants’: the divinity of Elephantine, Khnum, was the god who brought the Nile flood, who ruled over water and all liquid elements, and therefore had also sent the Flood. The Bible frequently mentions Yahweh's dominion over the waters, particularly the Red Sea and the Nile
>>17284190>One of the oldest beliefs - found in Enochic literature - on which Gnostic doctrine is based has its origin in an interpretation of a passage in Genesis 6.4, which tells the story of the angels [and Nephilim]… The myth of the birth of the giants and their destruction by God flourished to an extraordinary degree in late-Hellenic Judaic literature (especially in the books of Enoch)…>The biblical episode was of fundamental importance in the development of Gnosticism, because it showed the Lord repenting of his creation and willing to save only the few spiritual men, the chosen ones... we will only focus on the variation which states that the destroyer of giants was the god with the form of a snake. As we have read in the passage from lrenaeus describing Ophitic doctrine, in which the heresiologist asserts that the serpent Ophiomorphos, son of Ialdabaoth, but also an instrument of the divine Mother, introduced Adam and Eve to gnosis in the Garden of Eden, so that Ialdabaoth was angered and drove out the first men and also the serpent: "Sed et Serpentem adversus Patrem operantem deiectum ab eo in deorsum mundum. In potestatem autem suam redigentem Angelos qui hie sunt... " Having been hurled by Ialdabaoth down to earth, the serpent therefore subjugated the angels who were there. In the Ophite myth the Serpent surrounded himself with demons, his children, and caused harm to humankind. He was, therefore, the Devil, according to lrenaeus. In the speculations of Hebraizing Magi sympathetic to Ophite ideas and worshippers of Chnoubis, the repentant creator of the Bible became the serpent that ‘broke and stifled’ the giants, who were the angels' children. In Gnostic texts the serpent is the creator's disobedient son, while in Judea-Egyptian doctrine Chnoubis is the creator himself, who sent the Flood to destroy the whole of creation, except for the few righteous men, by water
>interesting OP>some budding discussion >tl;dr spam kills the thread in 20 postsI wonder why this keeps happening
>>17284208For those who know, the secret societies of today can be traced way back to groups like the Knights Templars and even the Mithraic cults. It seems obvious that while the names change, the "secrets" or rituals and behaviors remain the same... but how long has this been going on for?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-manLet's take a look at the Löwenmensch figurine above ("The Lion-man artifact") which is the oldest confirmed statue (or religious artifact) ever discovered... It has a humanoid body with the head of a lion, very much like the lion-head figures found in Zoroastrianism and the hidden Mithraic temples.. but also shares one other interesting characteristic with both the secret societies of yesterday and today. The Mithraic cults clearly worshipped this lion-headed figure and had 7 degrees of initiation, with one being specifically titled "Leo"... If you take a look at the Löwenmensch figurine, you will see "Seven parallel, transverse, carved gouges are on the left arm." For those who never paid attention to the significance of the letter G it is the 7th letter of the alphabet. Also note how the initiates of Mithraism were referred to as "syndexioi" (those united by the handshake).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism#Lion-headed_figureThey will try to convince you there is no connections between this figure and the oldest known form of evil, "Ahriman"... yet the Mithraic temples all clearly speak of the lion-headed God they call Arimanius... The Löwenmensch figurine itself dates back 40,000 years, yet we are now barely being told of Gobekli Tepe.. A civilization allegedly 11,000 years old predating our "earliest records" of civilizations existing 5-6,000 years ago.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimanius
>>17283959>where the fuck all the Gnostic bullshit with AeonsGreek mystery schools, there were fucktonnes of them. They syncronized with the Egyptians over time, leading to the batshit crazy shit you see the gnostics spitting.The original 2deep4u.
>>17284257Hey Brazilanon. I have a few things I want your opinion on. It's involving Persia, Parthians, and this place called Gandhara in India. So the person to first establish the Silk Road was a man named Mithradates II he was from Cicilia I know you're familiar with this place it's the trifecta of Hittite culture along with Phrygia and Syria. Groups like the Tocharians, Sogdians, and Yuezhi basically guided China to civilization, but the earliest texts in China use what's called Kharoshti script. You can find it on some coins even and of course China's first patriarch was Bodhidharma. But a frequent annoyance in trying to pin down this mystery cult genome revolves around Hindu-Buddhism. This religion has 33 gods and uses just about every type of custom Christians use. In fact people accused Buddhism of having a striking amount of similarities to both Gnosticism (ye olde Freemasons) and Pyrrhonism. They have tonsure, prayer beads, it's not just me who noted this Rudolf Rocker mentions it in Nationalism and Culture, but also Francis Xavier AND Buddhists accused each other of being degenerated versions of the other. Do you have any insight on this?
>>17285336Shockingly accurate
>>17285394ngl, I had a phase where I studied gnostic amuletsmost of them are kind of cringe, but there are some very cool examples (foremost in my mind one featuring Anubis and Isis flanking a Chnoubis emanating over a domed structure with some weird attachment on the side) that have their magic formulas written on themmore interesting than their design however, is how very many of them are found as far afield as Spain and even incorporated into ancient Christian relics through the Medieval period
>>17285336This. >MMXXIV>not knowing that everything we know about Socrates was written by Plato>not knowing that Platonism is Occultism>not knowing that Plato's dialogues are just the exoteric doctrines (the esoteric teachings being not revealed to the public)>not knowing that most of what Aristotle wrote was actually esoteric teachings taught by Plato>not knowing that we have in our hands only a tiny portion of Aristotle's writings and that they are only preparatory stages for the highest esoteric teaching>not knowing that Plato was just another initiate of the mysteries propagated by the Pythagorean School>not knowing that the Pythagorean School was just a continuation of the Egyptian, Jewish (he learned from Proto-Essenes of Mt. Carmel according to Assyrian historian Iamblichus: https://topostext.org/work.php?work_id=487 ) and Babylonian-Persian Mysteries>not realizing that all Occultism, and consequently all Greek Philosophy, derives from the Egyptian and Babylonian-Persian MysteriesStart by reading Giovanni Reale, the greatest scholarly expert on Plato, or read any reputable esoteric material. You can even read Guénon if you want. What I am saying is both academic and esoteric opinion. Any undergraduate studying Plato knows this.>>17285392>Do you have any insight on this?The Greeks attribute most mythology of their pantheons to the Phoenicians, who according to them, came from a Persian colony in Arabia that the Sumerians called Dilmun.>The Greek historian Strabo believed that the Phoenicians originated from Bahrain. Herodotus also believed that the homeland of the Phoenicians was Bahrain. This theory was accepted by the 19th-century German classicist Arnold Heeren who said that: "In the Greek geographers, for instance, we read of two islands, named Tyrus or Tylos, and Arad, Bahrain, which boasted that they were the mother country of the Phoenicians, and exhibited relics of Phoenician temples."
>>17285551>The people of Tyre in particular have long maintained Persian Gulf origins, and the similarity in the words "Tylos" and "Tyre" has been commented upon>According to the Persians best informed in history, the Phoenicians began the quarrel. These people, who had formerly dwelt on the shores of the Erythraean Sea (the eastern coast of the Arabia peninsula), having migrated to the Mediterranean and settled in the parts which they now inhabit, began at once, they say, to adventure on long voyages, freighting their vessels with the wares of Egypt and Assyria>Dilmun, or Telmun, (Sumerian: ,[4][5] later 𒉌𒌇(𒆠), NI.TUKki = dilmunki; Arabic: دلمون) was an ancient East Semitic-speaking civilization in Eastern Arabia mentioned from the 3rd millennium BC onwards. Based on contextual evidence, it was located in the Persian Gulf, on a trade route between Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley civilisation, close to the sea and to artesian springs. Dilmun encompassed Bahrain, Kuwait, and eastern Saudi Arabia>Dilmun is also described in the epic story of Enki and Ninhursag as the site at which the Creation occurred. The later Babylonian Enuma Elish, speaks of the creation site as the place where the mixture of salt water, personified as Tiamat met and mingled with the fresh water of Abzu. Bahrain in Arabic means "the twin waters", where the fresh water of the Arabian aquifer mingles with the salt waters of the Persian Gulf. The promise of Enki to Ninhursag, the Earth Mother:>"For Dilmun, the land of my lady's heart, I will create long waterways, rivers and canals, whereby water will flow to quench the thirst of all beings and bring abundance to all that lives.">The Sumerian tale of the garden paradise of Dilmun may have been an inspiration for the Garden of Eden story
>>17285551>>17285569Trismegistus means "Thrice-Greatest", referring to the fact that Thoth, the bird god with the serpent caduceus, as the Egyptians knew Hermes, had the title of "Lord of the eight gods", formed by 4 syzygis of Egyptian primordial gods with frog/serpent heads (Nun/Naunet, Heh/Heqet, Kek/Kauket and Amun-Ra/Amunet), animals that live near rivers such as Thoth's own bird, the Ibis, represented Time, Space, Darkness and Light. 2+2+2+2+1=9, that is, the 8/Ogdoad plus 1/Thoth, who administered the Duat (Egyptian Heaven linked to the Primordial Waters) together with his wife Maat. In Sumer, it was the water-god Enki, associated with the planet Mercury like Thoth/Hermes, who defeated and transformed its parts into his own kingdom the god Abzu (Primordial Waters), who fathered with his wife Tiamat (defeated by Enki's son, Marduk, who transformed it into Heaven, Earth and Underworld), three Syzygies (Lahmu/Lahamu, Anshar/Kishar and Anu/Antu), i.e. another Ogdoad.The Phoenician historian Sanchuniathon wrote about his own version of Ogdoad:>'These things were found written in the cosmogony of Taautus, and in his Commentaries, both from conjectures, and from evidences which his intellect discerned, and discovered, and made clear to us.'>Wind/Colpias and Erebus/Baau>Aeon/Mot and Eros/Protogonus>Genus and Genea>Pûr and Phlox
>>17285336>>17285401The more I read about it, the more it looks like this kind of stuff, Gnosticism, Pythagorean and Platonic mysticism, pretty much everything other than being a regular Christian/Jew/Pagan was the ancient equivalent of being terminally online.
>>17283292Judaism came out of Christianity>NOOO DA JOOZ SAID IT CAME FIRSTTheir religious texts literally talk about Jesus Christ, you retarded tranny.Gnostics literally troon out too, like the Matrix brothers, and gnosticism was the key influence for their philosophy with their movie.
>>17285551>>17285569>>17285577HUEHUEHUE BR BR BR BR?
>>17283292>Where did all this shit come from?People made it up
>>17286018The question is what people and when.
>>17286016>Their religious texts literally talk about Jesus Christlet me guess, you think sefer toledot yeshu is a religious text.>you retarded trannywhen you have to froth at the mouth like this, it is very clear even you know you are wrong.
>>17285569>the site at which the Creation occurredpumapunku, the jaguar's gate next to tihuanaco was also pointed out as the place where the world was created. to me this sounds hopelessly recursive.
Look, when Paul was writing about the Archons of this Aeon, he was not talking about Pilate
>>17286642Jesus mentions the Archon to a group of Greeks that came to see him in John 12.That's not a coincidence, he was using language they would understand as Greeks.
>>17286988Greek was Jesus' language and the language that the OT was first written in so that's why.
>>17286996Jesus knew both Greek and Aramaic, but Aramaic was what he spoke most. That's why there are tranliterations of Aramaic in the gospels.>the language that the OT was first written in You're an idiot and will never explain why there are transliterations of Hebrew words into Greek letters in the LXX.
>>17286996>OTDo you mean the Gospels?
>>17287126I mean the Old Testament. The NT was Latin first.
>>17287029>transliterations of Hebrew words into GreekOther way around. Hebrew is Greek. That's because it was all invented by Greeks. https://archive.org/details/Hebrew.is.Greek
>>17285551https://greekreporter.com/2024/11/20/samos-island-greece-philosophers-gods/>Greece’s island of Samos, the birthplace of mathematician and philosopher Pythagoras as well as astronomer Aristarchus, has a fascinating history tied to the myth of the Argonauts and the birth of Hera, the queen of the gods>The first recorded settler on the island of Samos, located in the Greek Aegean Sea, was Angaios (Aggeus) from Arcadia, who had taken part in the expedition of Jason and the Argonauts in search of the Golden Fleece. Greek mythology has it that Samos was the birthplace of Hera>According to another myth, sea nymphs or Nereids were the first inhabitants of the island. Nereids were deities that accompanied the god Poseidon and helped sailors fight the storms to travel safely out in the sea. One famous Nereid was the mother of Achilles, Thetis>The name of the island derives from the son of Angaios, Samos or from the Phoenician root sama which means a place with high mountains. Indeed, two high mountains, Kerkis, or Kerketeas, and Ambelos (otherwise known as Karvounis) dominate the landscape>The island is located at a strategic crossing of sea-lanes connecting mainland Greece with the east and Egypt. It is also very close to the Ionian cities on the opposite coast—modern day Turkey—from which it is separated by a narrow channel that is less than a mile wide. Its proximity to the Asian continent was profoundly significant for its development. Herodotus referred to it as the best city among both the Greeks and the Barbarians>Ancient Samos occupied the site of the modern city Pythagorio, as excavations in the area have shown. Traces of the first establishment of people in the ancient city go back to the Neolithic 5th millennium BC and are located on Kastro Hill
>>17287455>During the migrations period around 1100 BC, Ionian Greeks from the region of Epidauros arrived on Samos, bringing with them the cult of the mother goddess, Hera. In the Geometric period, the island amassed fabulous wealth due to its trade connections with the East and the western Mediterranean>Excavations of recent years have provided ample evidence of the high cultural level of this place in the Geometric period. Findings in the center of the ancient city and especially the Geometric cemetery of tumuli in the southwest section, indicate that the city saw great development from the 10th to the 7th century BC>The artifacts found indicate the importance of the island as a cultural center. The influence of the Minoan, Mycenaean, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian civilizations is reflected in the findings>During the Archaic period, Pythagorio reached its peak, specifically during the time of the tyranny of Polykrates, son of Aiakes. The most important works of that time are the aqueduct of Eupalinos and the great temple of Hera, known from Herodotus as the “double-ended tunnel” and “the largest of all temples ever seen by us”>In the same period, the first phase of the city fortification was completed, with walls built in the polygonal system for a length of about four miles. When the island was seized by the Athenians, the fortification wall was demolished>The wall was rebuilt around 300 BC, when the exiled Samians returned to their homeland after 322 BC following an edict of Alexander the Great. The last, limited repair of the walls was completed in 200 BC, when Samos was used as a naval station by the Ptolemaic fleet>The architect Rhoikos, the artist Theodoros, the sculptor Geneleos, and the poets Anakreon and Ibykos are some of the most significant personalities who served brilliantly in the court of the tyrant. Born on the island at this same time was the great figure of philosophy and mathematics, Pythagoras
