is this true?
it's an excerpt from the book, and I assume he wouldn't be lying.
of course it will have been true, but who knows when the anecdote is from. I think interest in proper drawing has actually gotten better in the past 10 years though, as everyone has access to good resources. although the problem with it having basically skipped a generation is that good teachers are scarce
Just go to the Slade website and see for yourself ( http://www.ucl.ac.uk/slade ). Here's some graduate work featured on the front page of their website.
Some more stuff from Slade graduates. I'm sure you're feeling overwhelmed with profound emotion at the sight of this high resolution photograph.
>>2058260
>>2058294I agree with you: interest has increased.I think the problem described here is that interest in being an "artist" in general without any real focus has increased, along with a rise in awful art schools that don't teach proper fundamentals before moving onto things like painting.So you get a lot of aimless 20-somethings who have painted a few crappy pictures, and have taken some kind of ok photographs. And they can probably talk your ear off about what those vague textures on canvas symbolize and how art makes them feel.
>>2058324>>2058326>>2058328So SLADE is garbage but is it representative of all art schools? Are bad art schools just an american thing?
>>2058335slade is british.
>>2058336well shit
>>2058326>>2058324>>2058328http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-weapon-1578808.html
>>2058335The problem is a lot of art schools spring this kind of shit on their students or the students themselves don't research the school well enough and they end up paying over $20000 to learn how to decorate themselves in garbage and 'express themselves'. At the Slade for example tuition is 17k and housing is 6k
>the fruits of a 40 to 80 thousand dollar education
>>2058260Glad I went to dental school. Each tooth is a tiny sculpture and you make bank.
>>2058324>>2058326>>2058328>>2058377this is some of the worst shit I have ever seen. Literally worse than my high school projects.
>>2058324>slade school of fine art>school of fine art>fine art>art>mfw I see the studio programme in BA/BFA
>>2058334oh yeah.I get the feeling that most people in my old school's 'fine' art department are essentially buying a degree as validation for crap 'work' they already do. The course is directionles and of course it's a good money maker for the uni because they don't need to pay for any actual teaching.They have old casts in the corridors that are totally neglected and covered in graffiti. It's depressing.Some of us in animation tried to rescue them and put them to use, but we couldn't move them safely so we just drew them as they were and had to leave them to die.
>>2058390>someone out there has a dickbutt tooth
>>2058377>>2058328>>2058326>>2058324This is why art schools, and art by extension, are not taken seriously.This is literal fucking garbage. Fuck all.
Fug
>>2059020Seems I might have to make this one more vertical, it's impossible to read like this without saving it which removes the purpose.>>2059025/pol/ pls......stay
>>2058260my mum actually did her phd on that assertion "you don't know what you don't know." turns out by and large you do know what you don't know.
>>2058324>>2059020This is hilarious. I know high school students who do better than those bfa/mfa scams.
>>2059033you're mum am dum. lel
>>2059033Where'd she get her phd? The Slade?
Wow. I'm actually glad I didn't try to go to art school. You're better off with internet tutorials.
>>2059032This image shows a problem but not the solution i.e. going to a good school or not at all and attending an atelier instead. What are some good representational art schools? Goblins, Ringa-dinga-ling, Calfarts, etc.?
>>2059075That's not always true of course, but I feel there are more schools like the Slade around than there are ones for people with a focus on art that isn't totally retarded, incomprehensible bullshit and worst of all it may not be readily apparent how bad these schools are until you're balls deep in their curriculum. Like, a highschool kid getting ready to graduate tells their dad they want to go to an art school and they just kind of see which one is closest to them, send the kid on his way to this school not knowing there are no representational art instructors to be found and he comes back a hippy retard who has somehow become less employable than when he first left highschool.These kinds of schools gradually brainwash their students with positive reinforcement while virtually ensuring their unemployment in any serious art position and rape they and/or their families to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars all the while. Fuckin' hell somebody has got to stop this shit.
I'm so glad I got rejected for foundation art. I was upset at the time but unknowingly they did me a huge favour.
Here's my local atelierhttp://theatelier.org/materials/index.htmlMost classes are 10 weeks and almost all are $200 or less (1 2-3 hour session a week, so about $20 a session). The alums and even part timers have pretty aesthetically pleasing (though mundane of course) stuff. You might have one near you, but there's no guarantees. Try typing "art atelier" into maps.google.com and see what happens. Anyway if you're unfamiliar with what an atelier is (newfag~) it's just a place where people gather around an instructor to do rather mundane still life studies and life drawing, but if you want to be a hot shit artist that's exactly what you might need, a supportive environment with other artists. Not to mention there might be a hot chick or two there looking to get it on like Donkey Kong with the realest nigga on earth (you).
Can animation still be saved?
>>2059093So sort of like College Basketball, only it's less profitable.
>>2058324Holy shit. He's right.Only remotely good stuff on the front page was the bananas.
>>2058260http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/10862412/Artists-no-longer-need-to-be-able-to-paint-or-draw-to-be-great.htmlThe main reason is the art scene elites (gallery owners, critics) promote the idea that skill != art. Ie, a master carpenter makes a fine chair, but that chair is not art because there was no intent in it. Art became all about the artist and the intent and its marketed as such.
>>2059131Nah it's dead m8. Richard Williams is a good animator but his own film was kind of retarded and he went so far over budget it never got finished. The animation is literally INSANE though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJry5ReXZVM
>>2059154You just took away a few hours of my life.AND I LOVED IT.
>>2059131doesn't need 2 b m8https://vimeo.com/38442550
>>2059316That wasn't anything special tho
>>2058324Not just Slade. Every art school is like this.
>>2059383That's not true though, just most of them I think.
>>205903224k a semester...So it costs almost 50 thousand dollars a year to learn how to 'express muhself'!?Good God what the actual fuck is going on
>>2059380the current wave of good European features is very special. Don't take it for granted because it probably won't last
>>2058260No it's not.It's just another whiny rant by some old bastard who is against anything that isn't representational and painstakingly rendered. Art is supposed to make you feel strong emotions, you don't need fancy effects or ultra precise technique to do that.Pic related. It communicates more to me than some shitty drawing of a rabbit.
>>2059032Why the fuck do you compare what that guy said about animation to the student work of some shit tier fine art college? Everyone knows that fine art is dead outside of ateliers who keep academic art traditions alive.Animation however requires WAY more skill than back in the days when he wrote that. Go and look at some of the best Gobelins or CalArts animation graduates and see if they can't draw. Go look at Disney, Dreamworks, Pixar animators and character designers. Almost all of them come from CalArts.
>>2059399>It communicates more to me than some shitty drawing of a rabbit.That's because you're a mentally ill brainwashed retard, faggot, lmao
>>2059399>Pic related. It communicates more to me than some shitty drawing of a rabbit.What does it communicate to you?
>>2059399>these aren't my glasses
>>2059404He's talking about the state of the artistic education industry as a whole, not animation in particular you saucer tits autistic retard. Not everybody can go to calfarts or goblins, the point is schools like that are the exception and not the rule. Fucking dumb cunt learn to read.
>>2059063DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN!
>>2059412Are you fucking retarded? Richard Williams was an animator and that text is from the animator survival guide, where he is talking about the state of the fucking animation industry and how he has to deal with shit tier fine artists applying for work as animators when they can't draw. My point is that nowadays these fine art graduates would never apply to fucking animation jobs. Fine art has become a self-contained circle jerk that has zero influence on any real art related job. Animation today is a highly competitive industry and the skill level of those who work professionally in animation is very high, compared to when Richard Williams wrote this little rant.How the fuck are you too much of an idiot to understand this? Are you literally mentally challenged?
>>2058260This is bullshit. I'm in the Illustration and Design program in a canadian college that also offers 3D animation. Once a week after classes there's a live model open to everyone in the arts programs.We also have at least 2 live model sessions in class per week, and if not we're going outside and drawing from observation. All the teacher are highly critical of any work that's done without reference and will outright reject anything highly stylized for the first two years of the program.
>>2059421The skill level in Williams' day, especially at his studio and Disney, was still very high.Although at the time colleges didn't really teach animation so most applicants would have studied fine art or illustration.It's a little difficult to compare because drawn animation is no longer the standard, but there's always work on shitty preschool shows for those who are still working on their skills
>>2059421>My point is that nowadays these fine art graduates would never apply to fucking animation jobsWow! such conjecture! Much baseless assertion!The problem is that before very recently not only was there a dearth in representational art in schools but there was no 'proko' or other people that made this kind of stuff as accessible as it is today, meaning that there were less artists able to perform at a professional level floating around, period, and what few there were were gobbled up by the big studios you already mentioned.
>>2059434what is the name of this wonderful school?
>>2058260In my experience everything he says about the state of fine art in the UK still rings true, all of my friends who went down that route didn't learn shit in the way of fundamentals. At a university level It's not really treated as an academic subject, they wouldn't be able to get away with that shit in any other field, it's like studying maths but not being expected to understand basic arithmetic, it's a joke and it needs sorting out.
>>2058260jesus fuck why does everyone think ALL art schools are the sameThere are HUNDREDS, probably THOUSANDS of art programs in the world. Most of them are going to suck. If you're not half retarded then maybe you could do some research on the school and find out for yourself if it's worth it or not.I'm an animator. I would not recommend someone going into animation to going to most schools because most of them are huge money grab but I would absolutely tell them go find a good one and stick to it. The industry changes quickly and there's a ton of shit I wouldn't have known if I didn't go to school. >>2059434Wao, once a week? Sheridan and Seneca has live models EVERY DAY. iirc Seneca's animation program is 2 years traditional, 1 year of 3D. Both their 3D programs are post grads.Sheridan has like what, 2 life drawing rooms for fundies every day, 2 rooms of illustration, and like 3 rooms for animation?Ringling is probably the same way and I know has a lot of traditional animation in their 3D animation program.
>>2059500No one's saying that they're the same. They're fucking saying how unfortunate it is that real drawing and painting has been all but replaced by faggots with high res cameras and drug addled body mod retards to the point where there are far more useless schools than there are ones that teach practical skills. They pray on naive, sincere people and ruin their fucking lives.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9skl9nijPM
>>2059500>Most of them are going to suckThat's the fucking problem, most are barely even mediocre and the few exceptions to the rule don't make up for that fact.
>>2059568You can say that about most things in life, m8. Let's not fucking do anything because most things fucking suck and the really good ones don't make up for it.
>>2059552college is a business, it doesn't care about drawing and painting. there are still plenty of good programs out there, and drawing and painting have not been replaced in the real world
>>2059572Right, but that doesn't excuse your lack of reading comprehension m8.
>>2059020What is worse than fine arts? Women's studies?
>>2059699While featured in the same article, liberal arts students are like 25% less likely to be unemployed as a fine arts graduate. The two in front of fine arts are archaeology and 'film, video and photographic arts'.Because of the proliferation of schools like the Slade, you are officially more employable as a transgendernigger she-man's studies major than an art student. lol
>>2059699Women's studies is pretty good if you want to work in public services or do shit like working with at risk children or sucidial teens.Of course that shit doesn't pay well so most people want nothing to do with it.
>>2059722That and working at those jobs is a very good way to get scarred for life
>>2059725But there's nothing else they can do with a worthless degree, and they end up stuck in a job they hate and take it out on someone's poor mother in a care home, if only they had perused a career in STEM. Thanks patriarchy.
>>2059434That's because you're going for a illustration + Design program. That's not considered 'real art'
>>2059154This gave me chills holy shit
>>2059500>Wao, once a week? Sheridan and Seneca has live models EVERY DAYYou can take more than one class at once at an atelier you know~. The reason they can't do everything every day however is because an atelier is usually a small studio with few rooms, whereas a formal college is a large campus where the wealth of thousands of people is constantly being siphoned off at once. I should certainly hope they can have spare "two life drawing rooms" and "2 rooms for illustration" in their several hundred acre campus. Ateliers are more "go at your own pace", and they are much, much cheaper, even if you take several classes a week.Anyway, the message of this thread isn't necessarily that art school is ALWAYS bad and should be hated (though I'm given the impression that ones that shouldn't be are the exception rather than the rule), but that there are a lot of greasy degenerate art schools out there and that it can be hard to tell that everyone's living in their own little non-representational retard-world until you're balls deep in the curriculum as some anecdotes of past and present students on this very board can attest. I think a good rule of thumb is that if a school doesn't reject applicants regularly for having weak portfolios then it is not a school worth attending. Period. Too many naive parents with naive children being taken for everything they've fucking got by these disgusting pieces of trash at these universities.
>>2059154Looks fucking lame. Wreck-It Ralph is where it's at.
>>2059972I like Wreck it Ralph too tho'...
>tfw when no ateliers even remotely near meJesus take me now
>>2058324this is just pitiful. it's like the kids from the yaqui valley went to art school
>>2059399
>near nycWhat atelier should I be looking into?
>>2059399>Pic related. It communicates more to me than some shitty drawing of a rabbit.that bitch would never get hired as an animator
>>2059399>Comparing so called high-art to "shitty drawing of rabbit" done by untrained person
>>2059399The problem my fisherman-friend begins when someone needs the type of work that someone without the skills of a draughtsman can't do.It's okay to do the type of art you're talking but it's not okay when the schools teaching art are neglecting all other types of art even though those skills they're failing teaching are still highly sought.
>>2060223She would probably not get hired for anything. That's the point of this thread, the failure of art schools to teach practical, comprehensible art to their students and to have teachers able to cultivate these skills in their students. Too many fucking autistic retards in this thread see that the quote comes from an animation manual and try and downplay the real crux of the matter, that being that art education has by and large become a laughing stock and one that has nonetheless swindled countless naïve and or uninformed young people and their parents out of their life's savings. There are people on this very board that have attested to having been lured into these institutions only to find themselves made to perform bizarre artistic 'experiments' and 'express themselves' and ultimately leave the school having learned nothing but what crushing debt and no job prospects they didn't already have seconds after receiving their high school diploma feels like.
>>2058260>in the late 1960s>in the late 1960s>in the late 1960s>in the late 1960splease pick something fresh to circlejerk over and actually bother reading it next time.
>>2060460Illiterate, it began in the late 60's and has continued today. Read the thread, christ.
>>2060469you don't think it's slightly telling that this is the anti art school quote with the biggest, most successful artist behind it, and it's 50 years old? unless you want to embarrass yourself by agreeing with noah bradley while simultaneously calling him a conceptart.org ruining whoreand i've read the book. op pic cuts off the context where r.williams specifically says things have changed since then.
>>2060772The first edition of the book was written in 2002 you stupid turd, the quote's context is the generational dearth of talent created by the shit-art movement that has persisted 'SINCE' the 60's, he says the situation with regards to interest in representational art has improved 'somewhat', yes, but it's obviously still a problem. Schools like the Slade are still allowed to perpetuate the art college to unemployment line railroad and mentally ill sycophants and useful idiots are still willing to come out of the woodwork on /ic/ defend these cretins.>unless you want to embarrass yourself by agreeing with noah bradley while simultaneously calling him a conceptart.org ruining whoreI have no idea what you're trying to say here. I don't follow art celebrity drama at all. All I care about is the people that have had their lives ruined by choosing to attend the wrong art school instead of the few and far between that are worth a damn.
i will bump ths
>>2059154magnet:?xt=urn:btih:2AD5B580AFDFAE67184439ECAED53D8EFF2BCC3F&dn=the+thief+and+the+cobbler+recobbled+cut+mark+4+september+17+2013+hd&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.istole.it%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.com%3A1337
>>2060801>he says the situation with regards to interest in representational art has improved 'somewhat', yes, but it's obviously still a problemTo expand upon this, I suspect that /ic/ being one of the slow as shit boards on this website as proof enough that this is true.For example, there are 1,843,569,580 posts on this website with an average of 29,263,009 (total posts / 63 boards) per board and this particular board has only 2.6 million that it'd accrued over a decade. I think there's tons of people that are interested in drawing or painting well but many of them get funneled into the nearest art school (one that will likely be more like the Slade than not) and they lose themselves somewhere in the hippy bullshit therein and leave the school in debt out the ass with nothing but a very rudimentary understanding of color theory to show for it.
ITT: arts vs crafts
He's a bit of whiner. But this kind of makes me realise how different my uni is. I don't have much knowledge on other unis.But I still find a lot of desperate fucks in my uni who are either: desperate to prove that art is some big important shit through putting forward unnecessarily sophisticated theory that has no interest in the real world, or desperate job-hunters who are pretty much like the bad trolls and their "criticisms" on /ic/. I'm changing my major and I hope other departments are somewhat better than this.
>>2061429>this:( >>2059032 )>art>>2061445>desperate job-huntersYeah fuck these people for wanting to be able to land a job after spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on an art education, right? lol. I'm not even looking for a job in illustration or whatever myself but I can empathize with someone wanting to get something out of all of their time and money spent. Why you would ever spend that kind of money and not be a "desperate job-hunter" is a mystery to me.
>>2058377what the fuckI could paint better than that in high school
>>2061461I used the word 'desperate' NOT to exaggerate nor simply to insult the people I'm addressing. My definition of word desperation here lies in the radical thought process and perception of the world solely based on that one single objectivity due to a kind of insecurity: getting a job while it is difficult to get a job. Note the word 'radical'. This entails complete rejection of oneself from, and intolerance towards, other aspects of the world. Such as giving undeserved importance to their valued moralities and achievements while being unnecessarily cynical about other 'territories', which of course mostly comes from the ignorance. It's quite obvious here on /ic/ that there are the bad trolls doing the exact thing. I don't really think they're joking btw. They reject different forms of art, different styles even within the same medium, and they cling to mostly concept art styles in video games or movies and classical realist style. Landing a job is the only important objectivity and others are just simply scams (which I keep seeing again and again), so why not devote my whole consciousness and time to actually important things? It's a bad cycle, really. But I don't think it's a cycle that a simple turn of event will be enough to change the course to more healthy mental state.
>>2058260this shit is so stupid. It is so mind-glowingly stupidOP, I want you to know that I have been on this website for a couple of years now and never before have I seen something that made me mad like this. It's just tripe that's meant to incense idiots about how good they are being. I keep typing and deleting words, I can't even express it. To answer your question, no, "real" art and animation isn't fucking dead. That's it.
>all these ass-blasted and broke-ass abstract mouth breathing shills in this ITT threadlol
bump for fun times
>>2064725tl;dr become an illustrator
>>2061445>>2061487well he must have hired hundreds of people over the years and reviewed/rejected thousands of portfolios, so at the time of writing it must have been a real problem for him.Again, he wrote this 15-20 years ago and who knows when the anecdote is from.
>>2064725
one of the students in my fine art class actually asked>what is compositionwhen asked to do a drawing task at the end of first yeargod bless fine art students.
>>2060801>you stupid turdwow, i wonder why nobody in art school wanted to socialize with you>All I care about is the people that have had their lives ruined by choosing to attend the wrong art school instead of the few and far between that are worth a damn.that's so breathtakingly noble of youagain: this book has been read by every animator on the planet INCLUDING the people who run animation courses. The vast majority of animation courses both do a lot of life drawing and use William's book as course work reference. Things are not the late 60s anymore, and fine art courses are an entirely different thing to Illustration, Animation, whatever courses.>>2061223>I think there's tons of people that are interested in drawing or painting well but many of them get funneled into the nearest art school (one that will likely be more like the Slade than not) and they lose themselves somewhere in the hippy bullshit therein and leave the school in debt out the ass with nothing but a very rudimentary understanding of color theory to show for it.god bless you anon. i don't know if you're a troll or genuinely this delusional, but i take my tinfoil hat off to you.
For motivation, I was looking at small internet contests for small fish and came across this. Thought it y'all might enjoy it.
This is actually a pretty common thing in writings about job hunting and books like this, actually. They always say things like 'you're the one of the few people who know this fact' or 'other people are stupid but you and me aren't'. It motivates people and gives them hope.
>>2066841Whatever homo lol, we've all heard the many anecdotes of people on this very board going to the nearest art school out of convenience to be close to their friends and family and getting taken for a wild ride by these deranged turd burglers.>>2066920You're fucking retarded if that's the impression you get from that page. This isn't "One weird trick to learn animation click here", it's an old man lamenting the fact that barely anybody knows how to fucking draw worth a damn, and these same people were applying to his studio in droves on the grounds that they have an "art degree". The same thing happens today I guarantee it, because these fine art fools are desperate as hell to make use of their $200,000 piece of toilet paper they call a degree.
>>2066940>same thing happens todayBy how much? How much is it different in number compare to Williams' time and now?
>>2059154You can tell that he was a great visionary. Very ambitious in his craft. I want to become more like him.
It's only true for fine arts schools, it doesn't apply to schools focused on commercial art like animation or illustration.
>>2058260Many horrid stories and examples of uneducated pretentious fucks forcing out praise and keeping each other's backs.Yet Konstfack in Sweden is the worst example. It's absolutely unimaginable, that putrid art and of people who get sponsored for attenting the school.Pic related. It's one of the participants in the 2014 graduates' exhibition of fine art.And to get more laughs and crying (mostly cries): http://www.konstfack2014.se/bafa/