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Are there books on training visual imagination?

This article is why:
https://www.zachtratar.com/tesla.html#.YC9jO1VKjIU

>What made Nikola great was his precise and grandiose imagination. He grew up with an intense visual imagination that tormented him when he was unable to control it. It would present itself forcibly unto his mind when he was trying to interact in the real world. He grew up without confidence in himself thinking that this was a shackle destined to cripple his life-long worth and validity. But he learned to control it. And for all the pain he suffered, the sheer beauty of the upside is hard to match. I could do no better to describe it than he:

>“I soon discovered that my best comfort was attained if I simply went on in my vision further and further, getting new impressions all the time, and so I began to travel; of course, in my mind. Every night, (and sometimes during the day), when alone, I would start on my journeys – see new places, cities and countries; live there, meet people and make friendship and acquaintances…

>This I did constantly until I was about seventeen, when my thoughts turned seriously to invention. Then I observed to my delight that I could visualize with the greatest facility. I need no models, drawings or experiments. I could picture them all as real in my mind… I do not rush into actual work. When I get an idea, I start at once building it up in my imagination. I change the construction, make improvements and operate the device in my mind. It is absolutely immaterial to me whether I run my turbine in thought or test it in my shop.”

I know Tesla was kind of known for his self-indulgent hyperbole, but is this obtainable? I have a pretty good imagination myself but how does a person step over that hurdle and get to that level?

Obviously, I am asking this with a focus on its application in art.
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>>5215763
>is this obtainable?
No.
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>>5215763
FOR ANTS!!
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>>5215766
Why?
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>>5215772
I'm legitimately confused by this post.
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to much text faglord
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>>5215773
Because you are not comparable to Nikola Tesla.
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>>5215778
>You're not allowed to! Why? BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!
Stop being a crab. Drawing and imagination is not some elitist activity for only the most erudite scholars. Please leave if you don't want to actually bring anything to the table
>>
I check out the /r/tulpas subreddit every once in a while, admittedly a bit for the cringe factor but also a bit because I am an autist and I think the concept is interesting.

There was someone, whose comment I can't find now that I was looking for it, because everyone is posting new threads every day asking if the voice in their head that calls itself Sally Acorn is real. But they were saying that they had been practicing visualization every day for years now and that they estimated the actual improvement of their ability to visualize had improved pretty slow, at something like the rate of 2% per month, from nearly having aphantasia at the start.

Obviously anecdotal, but he went on to explain that by practicing visualization so consistently for so long, he had gotten to the point where his imagination and dreams (which were extremely detailed and almost always lucid) were pretty much indistinguishable from reality.

He said it was amazing, and he wouldn't trade it if he could, but it was also a double-edged sword. The visuals were so intensely real that imagining grotesque things was genuinely hard to deal with so he had to consciously avoid imagining things like gore and murder, and he frequently had experiences of being unable to distinguish between memories of the things he dreamed/imagined, and the things that happened in real life.

Take it with a big old grain of tulpa autism / mental illness salt of course, but I find it honestly pretty believable. I've had imagination gains just from trying to practice it every once in a while. I wouldn't be surprised if it's like a muscle you can slowly train over time to eventually become imagination-swole. But just beware that if you take it too far you might become like this autist who gave himself schizophrenia on purpose.
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>>5215793
>I check out the /r/tulpas subreddit every once in a while
Thanks for the link. Looks pretty damn cool.

>they were saying that they had been practicing visualization every day for years now and that they estimated the actual improvement of their ability to visualize had improved pretty slow, at something like the rate of 2% per month, from nearly having aphantasia at the start.

I've gone from being able to imagine a single person to being able to imagine crowds in perspective over quarantine. It improves if you work it, but it definitely takes time and effort.

>Obviously anecdotal, but he went on to explain that by practicing visualization so consistently for so long, he had gotten to the point where his imagination and dreams (which were extremely detailed and almost always lucid) were pretty much indistinguishable from reality.

My dreams are really vivid and almost always lucid too. It's pretty easy for me to tell that I'm dreaming, though. When you look closely in dreams they begin to unravel. I always make fun of myself in my dreams for not paying enough attention to the details when constructing the setting/plot.

>He said it was amazing, and he wouldn't trade it if he could, but it was also a double-edged sword and he frequently had experiences of being unable to distinguish between memories of the things he imagined and real life

I definitely can relate in my own imagination. I'll imagine whole conversations with people then have to remind myself that I have been ghosting them.

>Take it with a big old grain of tulpa autism / mental illness salt of course, but I find it honestly pretty believable. I've had imagination gains just from trying to practice it every once in a while.

I don't think I am at this guy's level yet, but I know it's possible. I feel that the next few hurdles in unleashing my imagination might be difficult. The reddit looks really promising/ Thanks for sharing! Maybe I'll start posting there.
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>>5215817
Tulpas are kind of a laughing stock of the internet because they are basically people trying to give themselves multiple personalities on purpose.

But authors through time immemorial have described hearing their characters in their heads or talking to them like they were real. It is definitely possible to devote background power in your brain to simulating another personality. It's interesting, but it has the possibility to get pretty cringe.

I think the reason for that is the fact that no matter what you do to simulate another personality in your head, that personality is going to be inexorably tied to your own self and mannerisms, due to only having your knowledge and memories to work off of, so when people 'talk' from their tulpas online, it just sounds like the same person putting on a different voice and saying that it's twilight sparkle talking now or whatever, which is pretty cringy.

Regardless of the awkward culture around them, they are an interesting exercise in visualization and creation of original characters. When people get hardcore into visualizing their tulpa, they focus on trying to get every detail right - seeing them in HD basically. Envisioning their hair, eyes, skintone and texture, voice, clothes, how they look in complete 3d, how tall they are, the shape of their body, all that shit. All of that helps create a better, more detailed and realistic picture in their mind. I think all of those techniques can be applied to drawing for sure. And I think doing stuff like that does improve the general 'muscle' for your imagination.

As I mentioned before, I've tried to train my imagination a bit and I have noticed my dreams getting a bit more memorable and detailed, and my imagination getting a bit better. It's slow, though. I've been maybe a 4 - 4.5 on the apple scale for a long time. I used to be like a 2 as a kid, where I would have these long elaborate fantasies in my mind. I'd like to train that skill again.
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>>5215825
The "tulpas" moniker seems to me like a facade for something a lot more powerful. I've never heard of the word before, but the concept makes complete sense to me. It could probably be a lot more respected if they weren't dedicating themselves to pseudoscience and instead had the sense to use their minds in more sensible and grounded pursuits.

I'm off that scale you posted so maybe I'm at a 6 or so? It's really stupid to give numbers but it's a good way to gauge things.
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>>5215838
Other way, you mean you're lower than 1?
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>>5215839
Yes
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>>5215825
Having now surfed the Tulpa subreddit I can safely say that these are people literally giving themselves personality disorders. I would like to clarify that they are after a similar end goal but the similarities stop there. They are not artists. They are just unstable.
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>>5215782
You will never be Nikola Tesla :)
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Can someone please explain this tupla term? It seems like something I want to stay far away from.
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>>5215763
Yes, I do it daily
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>>5216169
Being a schizo basically
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>>5216169
you constantly visualise an imaginary friend until you believe they’re real so you never have to be alone. It’s self inflicted schizophrenia
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https://www.strawpoll.me/42640496
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>>5216616
Is this supposed to mean do you see things in your minds eye or do you see things in your visual field like your on drugs and hallucinating? If so I would wager to say my answer is no, but this poll really is just poorly worded so it's hard to say what you're trying to say.
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>>5217946
>Is this supposed to mean do you see things in your minds eye or do you see things in your visual field like your on drugs and hallucinating?
Yes. I'm asking whether or not the people on this board can physically see the objects they're imagining.
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>>5215763
visualisation is genetic just like IQ so don't bother trying
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This thread needs Xanax asap!
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Oh fuck no, not again ...
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>>5219007
No. That's not how it works. What do you think mind's eye means?
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>>5219195
>>5219199
Why?
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>>5219919
You say that but 9 people are claiming they can literally see imaginary objects.
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>>5216169
>>5216349
This. Originally they are a practice from Tibet and must be attempted only after the monk in question reaches inner peace and has a lot of practice in mediations and concentration. And not done by people with possible already existing personality disorders. Or you can end like this one guy that had a pink horse screaming at him at any time of the day including waking him up in the middle of the night. Plus if your tulpa is already uncontrolled you also can't get rid of it.
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>>5220283
that's literally schizophrenia
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>>5220827
Not if they can control what they see. It's called prophantasia, the ability to project images on the back of one's eyelids or onto physical reality.
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>>5220858
anyway its probably not trainable just like you can't just train yourself a higher iq
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Has anyone here tried image streaming?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F2qjtwcMhA
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>>5215774
I think he meant the pic res is low
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>>5221431
Image streaming is just awareness about the visualisation ability you already have and use unconsciously
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I don't doubt there are people who can actually see an image being projected vividly on the back of their eyelids, but from talking with people I know, I'm fairly certain that the majority of people have "aphantasia" as this board understands it. I.e., you can "look" and interact with a 3D object, but it's very different than actually seeing it.
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>>5221391
>anyway its probably not trainable
yes it is
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>>5220283
The way it is worded I wonder why it is so low. The way the question is asked is the problem. People aren't actually hallucinating objects in the real world. They are just confused because of how the question is worded and equating the ability to project images in their mind's eye with what your real meaning of the question. You are stupid.
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>>5221391
Many cognitive domains can be improved. Spatial intelligence, for example, is extremely malleable and can be improved with the right practice.
There is a reason video games are somewhat correlated to better spatial intelligence. Better mental rotation and the like. There are studies on this topic. Women stand to gain the most from spatial intelligence training since it essentially eliminates the gender disparity, but men with low spatial ability would likely derive the same benefit. I'm not saying that your low IQ isn't hindering you, just that it isn't a death sentence. If you draw mindfully and feel the form™ you would likely derive an even greater benefit than from video games. I think the classic flour sack exercise would be very good for this, especially if you drew cross sections through its form and whatnot. Of course, your goal would be to be able to do that with most objects, but the flour sack exercise seems like a decent start.


You can't get through to these people OP. /ic/ is a cesspit of trannies, incels and beta males that all think genetics fucked them over. And this seeps into every aspect of their life. Can't get a girlfriend? Genes. They fail an exam? Yup, genes. They suck at art? Yup, it's genetic determinism at it again. Ad nauseam.

Nothing stops you from doing visualization exercises every day for a few weeks and seeing where that takes you. It's impossible to say for sure but most of the data available points to a potential benefit and it essentially costs you nothing to do it for 15-30 minutes a day. Yes, you probably won't become Nikola Tesla tier, but you will become better and that's what matters.
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>>5222357
>>5221833
I've read the research literature extensively and any improvements are always extremely small, take lots of effort to gain and maintain and once training is stopped all gains are lost anyway.
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>>5222157
>People aren't actually hallucinating objects in the real world.
You're wrong but okay.
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>>5222485
What literature are you looking at? The papers I’ve seen showed net benefit for people training visualization - and those are people only doing it for a study. Presumably, someone being motivated by an external influence to practice visualization would see even greater results.
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>>5223048
>What literature are you looking at?
His ass.
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>>5223854
>>5223048

This study was published in Nature.

Twin studies found visualisation to have a 0.7 correlation (statistically significant) with g (general intelligence) which is genetic.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30545.pdf
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>>5220293
What was the name of the guy again?
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>>5223943
>Twin studies found visualisation to have a 0.7 correlation (statistically significant) with g (general intelligence) which is genetic.
That is not what you were claiming though.
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>>5223963
I think i got mixed up with IQ training and visualisation training but its still genetic and non trainable like >>5222357 and >>5221391 said.
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>>5223986
Again, there is nothing that suggests visualization is unlearnable. You're talking out of your ass.
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>>5223997
read the paper dunce also your message makes no grammatical sense so im assuming you cant visualise xD
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>>5224001
>your message makes no grammatical sense
That's because you're retarded, anon.
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>>5224053
i can visualise just fine and have a high g so you are wrong.

I'm not the one who dismissed evidence from one of the most reputable scientific journals in the world just because i was too braindead to read it xD.
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>>5224084
>have a high g
Doesn't seem like it. You sound retarded, to be honest.
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>>5224103
you can tell from a text post? god you must einstein yourself. How's training visualisation working out for ya?
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>>5224109
>you can tell from a text post?
You sound like a dumbass. Your IQ must be 90.
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>>5224115
ok i guess... xD
you are totally not seething xD
btw that is sarcasm, a non visualiser probably wouldn't understand xD
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>>5224119
>xd
whew, i just got teleported back to 2011
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>>5222485
You are actually wrong. Over quarantine my visual abilities have skyrocketed. Yes, I have been gifted in this area for my entire life, but the improvement of this ability is completely the results of my own efforts in its cultivation. Anybody who has put any time into training visual ability will be able to see this post for the crab-ish Kruggy garbage that it is. Work on this ability and prove yourself wrong. Loser.
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>>5224160
What are your methods to train it? Just image-streaming? That's the one I always see a lot but I hate that you're meant to talk out loud and record yourself for it
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>>5224166
I’m going to take a few hours to fully write out a beginners guide to training this ability and post it in here and the start a new thread on what I wrote. I’ve come to realize that people really have no idea how to visualize things and are really bad at it. It will take me a little while to formalize my thoughts but it will come. Stay curious and set a timer for the next few hours. Brb
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>>5224160
>Yes, I have been gifted in this area for my entire life
no comment
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>>5224319
>It has been something I have obsessively worked on my entire life. I’ve always wanted my daydreams to be more vivid. Perhaps the word “gifted” is a bit of a misnomer.

Sorry for not clarifying.

I’m still writing my own little bit of pseudoscience guide to share with the world. Thanks for the feedback! I will be wanting more when I finish writing.
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>>5224123
>2011
zoomer
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>>5223986
>fitness is correlated with intelligence therefore it’s impossible for dumb people to get better at running
This is literally your argument.
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>>5224192
Please link it ITT when you do it.
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>>5224811
there would be nothing wrong with that argument if the first premise was true. learn basic logic some time
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>>5224963
I just finished. I should earn a 4chan VIP pass for the amount of effort I put into it.
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>>5224963
I went to start a thread for the document I wrote but it says my IP range has been banned for abuse for some reason. We live in a society.
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>>5225015
Maybe you could pastebin it or something and post ITT. If you even feel like sharing it that is.
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>>5225015
just post it ITT, I'd be interested in seeing it even though im still pretty sure visualization cant be improved meaningfully in low visualisers
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>>5225020
>>5225017
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BKyhc0poh6OhTBRz3ONQQAv3HfY-s-DbOFW-mn1CWNk/edit?usp=sharing
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>>5225022
thanks, you should also research this guy "aphantasiameow" he is someone who tries to help people train to better visualisation although he is probably a scammer because he asks for payment. imagine asking for payment on something that isnt proven to work yet
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>>5225022
ITHIS WAS THE THREAD I WAS GOING TO POST IF SOMEONE IS INTERESTED ENOUGH TO MAKE IT

Hello, I am the OP from this thread:
>>5215763

Based on the feedback from that thread I wanted to make a guide on improving visual imagination because it came to my attention that no such guide existed. If you would like to read it it is located here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BKyhc0poh6OhTBRz3ONQQAv3HfY-s-DbOFW-mn1CWNk/edit?usp=sharing

It is open to comments, and I would love some feedback.

Your visual abilities are improvable through hard work. Over the last couple of years I have cultivated this ability through the steps I gave in my document, and I have seen impressive results.

If you would like to link additional information to me, I would love to see it. Books or articles on the subject are hard to come by. I am also interested in possibly simplifying this so it can be turned into an infographic to be shared in future threads if you would like to help with that.

Sorry that I am a bit of a walking tldr, but sometimes you just write a post so long that you can’t even break it up into parts to feasibly post it (which I have done before). Sorry about that.

Feel free to leave if you are not interested, but it took me a while to make so some feedback would be lovely.

SUBJECT
/ic/ Guide To Improving Visual Imagination

IMAGE
image attatched
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>>5225022
Thank you for posting something meaningful in the crab bucket that is /ic/.
I gave it a read and it seems interesting. Definitely will try these exercises. I can make the thread for you.
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>>5225033
>>5225037
There you go.
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>>5225034
>>5225038
Thank you. I really appreciate it.
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>>5224119
Holy shit were you having a mental breakdown or something? You’re actually stupid. Get some help
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>>5225030
https://www.aphantasiameow.com/
Seems like it's legit but just run for profit. Kind of funny to see how small the program is. Seems like it could be helpful if you wanted a teacher, though.
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>>5226694
do you need a trigger warning for xD?



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