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Anyone check out Betty Edwards's new book?
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>>5445243
No thanks - I'd rather learn from someone who knows how to draw.
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>>5445328
but just look at the 5 day progress after in person instruction.
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>>5445334
soul into more soul. holy fuck betty edwards is the GOAT
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>>5445334
if you're an adult and draw something like on the left, you have to have some sort of stunting of mental growth and severe problems with perception
no matter how bad of an artist you are, you should be able to discern between shapes, when you look at another person, you don't see a smooth egg with a brush glued on top and a neck thinner than wrist
only the eyes, mouth and ears have some thought put into them
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>>5445356
This is after her 4 day virtual class
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>>5445356
anon i'm afraid you have autism
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>>5445365
people generally dont have a triangle shaped chins
the shades don't follow a light source, they're just a shoddy attempt to give depth to the face, some of the shadows don't follow logic
the hair is completely flat and not even on the same plane as the rest of the head in terms of perspective
it's an improvement from the old, sure, but it's like you regress on some parts that you used to take into account while improving others
First and foremost you should practice anatomy with lines only, forget the shading for now and try to construct consistent figures with just lines
and learn perspectives
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>>5445376
But in the real world I don't, how does that fit your narrative?
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>>5445377
This is after another 4 day virtual session
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>>5445243
>drawing with your front teeth
>drawing on your left nut
>drawing on the edge of your weenus
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>>5445396
This is before and after the virtual weenus edging class
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>>5445405
fantasmic and cogentially agnorrhent. nice nostrils.
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>>5445377
who the fuck are you talking to retard
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>>5445413
I'm giving criticism to someone's artwork in hopes of helping them to improve, what the fuck are you doing here, retard?
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>>5445414
that person isnt even fucking here you fucking brainlet, just how fucking stupid can you fucking be jesus fuck fucking retard, stupid as fuck retard, fucking moron
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>>5445414
he's right, I need to improve
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>>5445405
soul
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>>5445243
I need to change my left dominant eye so I can use a rifle.
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>>5445334
People can be taught how to draw. There’s no question about that. And a mediocre teacher like Betty makes a fine mentor for those whose biggest gain from art is in the form of stress relief and therapy.

But Betty, and Old Masters that she cites, are not on the same wavelength. They’re not even on the same plane of existence, even if both are holding the same instrument in hand. Betty’s book, and books like KtD, should be ignored by anyone who wants to get to a proficient level soundly and without any naval gazing. Some pick up easily on the hint that Betty is wasting their time. Others need to be told explicitly.

Instead, read books written by great draftsmen, painters, sculptors, and artists. These aren’t necessarily the same people, and being great at one doesn’t mean being great in others. Get trained by people who come close to expressing the visceral and the cerebral qualities of the ones you admire. It will unlock these qualities in you. You’ll never be like them, of course, but you’ll share their language and those like them so when you read their words and see their works, the lessons will be obvious and hopefully profound.
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>>5445471
>>5445471
cont'd since it dawned on me just now. I'm a big fan of Juliette Aristides' books, but even she tends to speak with flowery language that doesn't say much at all. The examples of work that she chooses from her book (hers, her students and her friends I think), are things you can find on google by typing in anything with "contemporary" keyword next to it. She is someone who unquestionable has witnessed the profundity of art and some kind of a connection with higher state of being enough to put it into words, but at the end of the day it won't help the budding student. It's too much mental masturbation.

In truth, you don't need a "new book" by Betty or anyone else from this century for that matter. Drawing has not changed at all since the beginning. The techniques, methods, have not changed. You're still either doing tonal or linear, abstract or representational, and moving from one to the other to express what you're after. It's not a matter of changing tastes, just sheer practice and reflection on what it means to you and what you are after.
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>>5445471
>>5445487
post ya work
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>>5445334
I used to think that the before and afters shown in the book were impressive. What the fuck?
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>>5445471
>>5445487
You sound like a pretentious fucking wanker that doesn't know a damn thing about practical draftsmanship. Pardon my French.
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>>5445389
Actually not bad at all, this guy seems promising.
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>>5445805
Sir this is an artwork critique board.
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>>5445471
>>5445487
excellent points thanks. ignore the /b/tards
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$950 for zoom calls to learn about basic proportions and exercises like drawing Picasso upside down!?!? I need to rethink my career
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>>5445831
You know, I am being a cunt, but come on. Nothing's changed since the beginning? We don't need anything from anyone from this century? You're telling me that we've had stuff like, say, streamlined and effective construction drawing teaching methods like Dynamic Sketching, or Loomis, or Bridgman? Fucks sakes.
When you're dealing with the abstract, esoteric world of construction and perspective and not just copying shit that you see like a xerox machine, it's fucking difficult to teach and to learn. It's shocking the amount of artists, including those here, who STILL don't get it in the modern age.
Look at what happened to Proko, even though he was educated at an atelier and made an entire course for figure drawing himself, his construction drawing skills and ability to create from imagination could be put to shame by an /int/ shitter like ME, for fucks sakes.
To say that we already had all this figured out long ago is stupid because we still don't have it figured out today.
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>>5445866
wtf its not even by betty edwards
shes actually a scammer
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>>5445471
>>5445487
I started learning to draw with reading perspective made easy and now I'm doing exercises from the book in your post. Please could you give me critique especially in regards to shading?
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>>5446250
and by the way I see that value relationships are wrong here, I'm more interested in how to improve overall quality of shading because my results look too messy in comparison.
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>>5445243
I thought she was dead like loomis
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>>5445334
>>5445365
>squint, nigga. squint and draw the shadow shapes you see
Betty Edwards, 2021
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>>5445334
Damn, so this is the power of asian jeans…
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>>5446250
I think these copies are not good, or maybe the book itself is bad. Shadows are the same values along the tunnel, instead of getting brighter at the exit. And the line between shadow and light is very sharp. Okay, this is a book for studying perspective, but a material that allows you to study everything at once (perspective, shading, tonal value, textures, etc.) should be more useful.
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>>5446428
>Logan Kirk
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>>5446448
>Shadows are the same values along the tunnel, instead of getting brighter at the exit
you must be blind. The shadows definitely are getting lighter and lighter as you move out of the tunnel.
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>>5446288
To be fair to her good art schools will spend a lot of one on one time with you to make sure you are squinting and seeing things properly. But that only works when you have a better pair of eyes than yours correcting you in real time. Ms. Edwards will try to substitute that experience with a thousand obscurantist words.
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>>5446577
>But that only works when you have a better pair of eyes than yours correcting you in real time
You already have the perfect instant feedback you need in observational drawing: the subject. If you can't notice discrepancies then you are just not trying to, overlay your drawing and subject together if that's that it takes
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>>5446602
People think that but you are limited by how good your observation skills are. Your instructor's eyes notice discrepancies you don't.
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>>5446633
You aren't limited unless you are literally blind or have some severe mental issue that makes you incapable of telling shapes amd tones apart.
Everyone can tell when something is off in a purely observational drawing, but not everyone can be arsed to fix it. This is a matter of mentality rather than skill, a teacher can push you to actually bother fixing things.
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>>5445334
>>5445365
>>5445389
>5 days
>4 days
>5 days
for the time frame thats impressive desu
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>>5446663
This sounds like textbook Dunning-Kruger.
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>>5446448
Personally I find these plates nice and fun to copy. Also that's one of the first lessons on shading and If you look further they progressively get more complex for the sake of learning. My main concern is that I can't replicate that nice look and my lines end up being either dirty or too feathery. The amount of variables that define qualites of the line like pressure, width produced by rotation of pencil and using it's sharp or blunt parts, softness of graphite and texture of the paper are too much for my beg brain that's why I need your help.
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>>5446897
Here's another one. I'm just worried that If I don't get it right from the beginning there will be little use in going forward.
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>>5446914
These practices are of little use. How are you supposed to draw weeb shit?
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>>5446921
I just want to draw castles Desu Desu!
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>>5446937
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>>5446250
>>5446259

I'm the anon you replied to, and yes I do have some useful tips to offer. Perspective Made Easy is a great book and it will serve you well.

First, get a paper with a little bit of tooth to it so that the graphite on the paper doesn't shine or look reflective as you put tones down. Sketchbook type pads by Strathmore and others should work fine. I almost never work on super smooth paper as there is a lot to be said for textured surfaces, but that's a post for another time.

Second, you want to develop a technique of uniformly hatching so that you can, in repetitive strokes, put down a more or less "flat" tone, with little variation. This is easier said than done and you have videos on YouTube explaining how to do this. It won't take too long to develop this, but you just have to go through it time and time again. The key here is to choose one angle that your wrist and your hand naturally gravitates towards, and use that. Later on, you can alternate angles and directions. When I first started to draw I would always go from bottom of the stroke towards the top, but over time I flipped the direction. Not sure why, just felt more in touch with the whole process if I'm working from real life or from a model.

Eventually you'll pick up on nice variations like moving along with the direction of the form, but try not to get fancy at first. Practice tonal control. Build up your tones in passes. You'll have to figure how hard you can press the paper with each stroke to get the right value you want from the first try, so at beginning go light and build it up without damaging the paper. Again, this is where a bit of textured paper helps. This is basic training for your sensitivity and hand movement.

That's enough blogshit. Apply it and keep drawing.
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>>5446897
>>5446914

From >>5447194

Don't be worried. The process of all this, and this applies to trad and digital, is for a big part of it the process of removing from your mind that you're holding a pencil to begin with. You're not going to get away from this in a day. You've never used a pencil like this before, so don't put pressure on yourself to know instinctively how to use it right off the bat.

If you want a solid example to emulate, in much the way that a child learns to speak and understand by observing and imitating, I would say go and look at Vilppu's drawing videos on YouTube. Look at the way he's holding his pencil with his usual overhand grip, and how he's moving it around without hesitating. Copy him without thinking, but try to keep in mind what you are trying to go for in your studies.

When I first started sculpting in clay, I was unable to use the simple tools and the teacher would come around and fix up some of the issues I had. The issues were caused by my inability to make decisive, calculated movements with the tools more than anything else, and it felt very frustrating to have to deal with that (especially when I could draw the thing effortlessly). I knew the final result I wanted to go for, but didn't know what the tools would do when I would press into the clay and move it around. But I tried to incorporate the movements that the teacher used in a gentler way to see what the result is, and over time I got more and more accurate with these motions and with pressure the first time around. So this whole thing applies to sculpting as much as it does to drawing.
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>>5445243
Shit book, shit artist unless you want to be a copy machine
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>>5447211
Am I supposed to hold on loosely?
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>>5445356
That's literally how most adults draw though. Let that sink in.
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>>5445471
I'm a published illustrator and I think Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain is the most important book about drawing an intelligent novice could read. A lot of people think it's bad and gimmicky because they don't grasp what she's talking about. I was lucky enough to have been taught to draw by an excellent life-drawing teacher before I came across the book, and he taught using a similar approach to Betty Edwards, so when I read it, it was easy for me to understand. Make no mistake: if you don't understand the importance of this book, you will never make it past the level of a renderer or skilled draughtsperson; any deeper understanding of drawing will prove elusive.
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>>5447347
Show your art
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>>5447222
Not too loose, but not tightly gripped either. Aim for somewhere where your hand is as relaxed as it possibly can be while you still have control over the pencil. It shouldn't fall or swivel as you're holding it. Let all your fingers play some kind of a role in keeping it steady. This is why students have always been encouraged to draw with the shoulder and elbow when not doing the details - it's not just the range, it's also the relaxation aspect which helps with accuracy and other things. And remember to breathe and not slouch when you draw. I usually only tighten the pencil in my hand when I want to go to a particular value very quickly, but this again comes with practice.

I took picrel from google, one of Vilppu's videos screencap.

I'm going to go on a tangent and I apologize for this blogshit, but I think it's not really emphasized enough why it's done or how it's beneficial so people never really pick it up unless they see someone else doing it.

I think when students first start drawing they're intimidated of the pencil due to lack of experience in holding it. The picrel's grip is often called the underhand or drum stick grip. It's not a meme. I would prefer to call this the "thinking" grip because the focus isn't really on controlling the pencil. Vilppu is completely unaware in this moment he is holding a pencil. He's in his mind and he's trying to capture what he sees in there on the paper. This grip is perfect because the wide range of flexibility it allows you while you're drawing means you don't have to focus on the pencil. It's a liberating thing, combined with feeling the texture of the paper on your fingers with the way he's doing it.

So do this exercise - grab a standard sized pencil so that it extends all the way and can touch all your fingertips, and just hold it the way he does. Move your wrist, move your elbow. Move both. It will feel unusual (again, lack of experience) but give it some time and it will start to feel natural.
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>>5447347
>I'm a published illustrator
Quality of illustrations these days is questionable, so that's not saying much.

>>5447347
>A lot of people think it's bad and gimmicky because they don't grasp what she's talking about.

No, it's a fairly popular, well read and respected book. I'd say /ic/'s opinion is in the minority.

>>5447347
>and he taught using a similar approach to Betty Edwards

Which is fine.

>>5447347
>if you don't understand the importance of this book
Your teacher understood how to incorporate it, but give this person to someone and tell them to go draw.

>>5447347
>any deeper understanding of drawing will prove elusive
No book will teach you how to be an artist.

You're not disagreeing with me - you just don't know why I said what I said.
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>>5447379
>but give this [book] to someone and tell them to go draw.
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>>5445921
>You're telling me that we've had stuff like, say, streamlined and effective construction drawing teaching methods like Dynamic Sketching, or Loomis, or Bridgman? Fucks sakes.

I don't want to get too handwavy but if you go by what some of the greatest artists we know of have thought, they all seem to agree that there was some Golden Age that has long passed. We don't even know what the fuck the ancient Greeks knew or how they trained, and they barely had the technology we do. We were lucky that something like the Laocoon was dug up. Who knows what the predates them.

Does the technology we have help? Is it more effective? I'm all for Peter Han, Loomis, Bridgman, and Proko. But they aren't telling you anything new. Han would have to spend a lot more time to get his ink work to come to the level of Durer, but I get that I'm talking about an exceptionally talented artist. Still, it's not like Han is better than Durer just because he's alive and Durer is dead. That's not how these things work.

>Look at what happened to Proko, even though he was educated at an atelier and made an entire course for figure drawing himself, his construction drawing skills and ability to create from imagination could be put to shame by an /int/ shitter like ME, for fucks sakes.

And you know this because of the kangaroo meme? You've never fucked up, ever? You've never heard of professional artists fucking up?

I don't think you know as much as Proko does, and I sincerely doubt you can draw as well as he does, if all you've got to go by are memes people put here to guile ignorant anons into thinking Proko is a hack who can't "create from imagination."
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>>5447194
>>5447211
>>5447371
I'm really glad you took your time to write such an elaborate response and deeply appreciate it. I saved your posts and will definitely apply all of this. I'm a bit disappointed that I can't get away with cheaper paper but guess that's not a big deal. Once again thank you for spending your time to guide me and other anons.
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>>5447416
>And you know this because of the kangaroo meme
That's funny how often ironic or silly memes become common notion. I'm not even saying he's good or bad.
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>>5445328

A good instructor is not necessarily a good practitioner. By that logic Freddie Roach would be as mediocre a boxing instructor as he was a boxer, rather than one of the greatest coaches who ever lived which he is
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>>5445471
keys to drawing can be useful compared to any book betty wrote. excercises are annoying but advice is alright, especially focusing more on what you see



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