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what is the best paint variant and why is it watercolour?
>>
Sounds like you just bought your first paint set, congratulations.
>>
I think the accessibility of watercolour as a painting medium as well as its variety of applicability and cheaper price than other mediums make it a lot more user friendly than, say, oil paints which are usually a lot more expensive and a lot more intimidating for beginners
>>
Off the top of my head, watercolors pair well with the most mediums. line and wash, colored pencil, other paint for opaque colors. It's just the most versatile medium
>>
>>5616663
which is kind of unfortunate, considering watercolor is wickedly hard.
>>
>>5615824
>Painting on paper, which rota over time due to its own pH
Shiggy
>>
>>5615824
>"paint variant"
This is what happens when /ic/ pretends to be non digital-only
>>
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>>5616663
This is a common misconception; watercolor is notoriously difficult to handle with good results beyond an extremely mediocre amateur baseline, but it's considered more accessible because of its extremely simple water-based nature.

In reality, oil painting is way more easy to leverage into acceptable results as it can be reworked and tweaked way more than watercolor can be, but puts students off because of the relatively complicated nature of medium/solvent handling.
>>
>>5616663
>more expensive

You actually pay more for watercolors. Why do people perpetuate this lie? I think it's digital only fags that have never shopped for paints.

You COULD argue that you have to use more paint per square inch in oil especially if your using impasto techniques, but the tubes of paint cost more per ml for watercolor. I find that my watercolors go fast, there is a lot of waste in watercolor painting.

>>5616680
It is, but I found it a lot easier to deal with than alcohol markers.
>>
>>5615824
I'm an acrylics enjoyer

Cheaper than oil, watercolor and all the other bullshit in this thread, its the most recent and technologically advanced type of paint. You can do very watered down and translucent layers (like watercolor) or very opaque layers (like oil). You can keep a layer workable for hours keeping it wet by spraying with water from an airbrush every once in a while, or you can make it dry in a few seconds by using a hair dryer. You can layer infinitely.
>>
>>5615824
Digital
>>
>>5617247
>easier to deal with than alcohol markers.
I was surprised to find out how fiddly alcohol markers were compared to painting with day 1 skills for both. I expected markers to be completely braindead, instead they were a streaky, bleeding mess, and flat filling with gouache was ezmode.
>>
>>5617360
Yeah, copics were a horrible expensive meme. Markers have all the disadvantages of watercolor with none benefits of watercolor. The skill set of learning to use markers does not really translate to any other medium either.
>>
>>5617247
A pan of watercolors are cheap, a good water brush is all you really need, and you don’t need to worry about oils to clean your brushes
>>
>>5616826
New oil painters who do not know what they want their art to be like try all sorts of medium, which is relatively new practice that became popular because tube paints have unsatisfactory characteristics. They spend a lot on the mediums like alkyd resins, heat-bodied oil, etc and end up not using them. You can buy raw linseed oil and modify it yourself and make your own paint. You do not even really need solvents.
There is a lot of technical knowledge to study about oil because if a painter does not understand it, the painting will not be as permanent. The level of knowledge required depends on the artist's goals.
It takes less for oil to make an "acceptable" painting but expertise is much more difficult. Using tube colors that are then modified with mediums and solvents is not really the same practice as preparing pigments and binder.
>>
>>5617247
>You actually pay more for watercolors. Why do people perpetuate this lie?
are you stupid? With watercolor you need less than a fraction of paint that you would need when using oil/acrylic. One 5ml tube can last you years. It's a lot less expensive in the longer run
>>
>>5617247
>You actually pay more for watercolors. Why do people perpetuate this lie? I think it's digital only fags that have never shopped for paints.
Watercolour tubes last fucking forever, and I frequently wash a bunch of it down the drain to make more space on my palette.

Now, starting costs for a decent set of brushes and a good pile of cotton paper add up a bit. Still ends up being cheaper than alternatives.
>>
>>5615824
Gouache>watercolor
>>
>>5618054
poster paint > gouache
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>>5618070
you will never be a ghibli background artist
>>
someone rec me a watercolor tube brand.

I wanna stop cakes and switch to tubes
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>>5618081
f-fuck you
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>>5618083
Shinhan?

Personally I use Holbein.
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>>5618083
i like horadam schmincke
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>>5618091
>>5618092

Thanks anons
>>
>>5618083
I use White Nights. Affordable in Yurop. Not sure what's the best one if you're 'murican. M Graham or Daniel Smith maybe?
>>
>>5615824
I like aquarelle, india ink and chalk.
It's easier for me to be precise with the first two and with the other to correct mistakes.
I don't really like standard watercolour because I get my paper too wet, mess up a lot and it ends up looking like a childs school project... It's just difficult for me.
If I had the money, I'd rather spend it on oils, clay or just buy more of the things I already have.
>>
>>5618099
Shinhan & Schmincke are very good, steadfast and vibrant. But if you like variety without mixing I recommend the Holbein.
>>
>>5617297
Matte medium is my best friend now, never liked acrylics until I got the tip on that.
>>
>>5618091
Holbein are stiffer and feel and you can use them a bit more like gouache, they dont run as much which is good for illustrations. I've fallen in love with the creaminess of Sennelier watercolors. They really flow and are very transparent.
>>
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>>5618070
>>5618081
>>5618088
In many cases (and specifically in the case of anime studios such as G) poster paint IS gouache, the only difference usually being the concentration and purity of the pigment, as the applications of "poster paint" (large-scale stuff like animation backgrounds or, well, posters) do not require the lightfastness and opacity of artist-grade gouache. But the core features of smoothness and workability are there, with the composition and binding being essentially the same.
>>
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>>5618517
Nicked Poster Paint has larger particles and it wets more, like a watercolor would, gouache doesn't do any of that.
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>>5618571
Hey anon can you tell me what book that is and where to get it?
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>>5618579
It's this one.
I managed to buy some bottles of Nicker Poster Paint when it was still cheap to order from Japan, shame that I'll never be able to get them again.
>>
>>5618586
>Nicker Poster Paint
You can get some on amazon. Not sure of the price.
>>
>>5618586
Neat. Do you use them for something animation-related?
>>
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>>5618594
No but there's a guy on youtube that does, not counting the japanese artists. It's something that can end up too expensive, the Namura brushes they use are extremely expensive, then the paper is only sold in A4 pads which is small for me.
Only bought them to try them and ended up liking the greens and blues a lot, better than my gouache, other colors I prefer in gouache. If you paint in gouache/watercolor and want to paint a sky Poster paint would be a lot easier due to the way the paint moves and feathers.
>>
>>5618083
Seconding White Nights. Really cheap if you're eastern europoor
>>
>>5618634
namura prices look pretty normal for natural hair. those things have a shitton of bristles.
>>
>>5618706
The school grade brushes are cheap and those are the ones I'm trying to get one day just to try them out of curiosity. The ones that Studio Ghibli used are the professional line and a single brush can cost up to $40 or more. If you're interested you can search and find the ones they recommend, check the Nicker youtube channel as they list the materials.
https://webshop.sekaido.co.jp/product/A000939
https://www.youtube.com/user/nickerenogu/videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyNqQwcfjc3N_XqLd2eQd1Q/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmP3VIMOp98
>>
>>5618706
I own korean natural squirrel hair brushes bought from aliexpress at no more than 10 bucks. It's all about branding
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>>5618947
>the professional line and a single brush can cost up to $40 or more
which is incredibly fair for large, good quality, natural hair brushes. kolinsky or red sable at those sizes would be 2-3 times as much.
>>
>>5618973
its not just about branding the price also depends on which part of the animal the fur is from
squirrel brushes are generally cheap and pretty good i used to used them before i moved to synthetics like davinci nova
>>
>>5618979
Right but these are goat and squirrel hair, shouldn't be that expensive.
>>
>>5618083
daniel smith, m graham, holbein. i use the second and third's gouache as well.
>>
>>5617513
I actually use water based markers, expensive like copics but much much better to work with. you can always reactivate them on paper and easily blend with the water and even eliminate streaks. And they don't smell
>>
>>5615824
watercolors are for children, and preliminary sketches. gouache and oil are easily the best
>>
>>5615824
watercolors hate me because i have meat hands so theyre like "WHATS THIS?? THE WASH, IT IS NOT AS WET AS I'D LIKE?? SMUDGES!! I DECLARE SMUDGES UPON THEEE!!!!"

so i work digitally mostly
>>
>>5619255
some people like it when their shit is dry after 12 hours tho
>>
>>5618083
Da Vinci is really good if you want lots of paint for cheap (I bought a 37ml tube of burnt sienna for 11$) Sennelier is quite goood and so is shinhan.
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>>5618973
I bought brushes from aliexpress as well, they were all unusably bad.
Only decent ones were Keep Smiling 6324X which I might buy some new ones again, the flat and shader ones are good.
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>>5619247
I like those as well, people are sleeping on them, you can tile like copics and then blend with a Pentel water brush. No smudges on the ink lines.
>>
>>5619355
I've only used ShinHan Pass and I have to say I would pass on them, it's the old saying, tries to do both but ends up not being good at any.
You can use watercolors flat, then shade with color pencils or use other techniques.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXAYp3mf_CE
>>
>>5616680
Yeah I find watercolour a bit finicky but when you think about it, watercolour is usually the first painting medium most people will be introduced to in their lives. Especially children in school; they usually do watercolour instead of oil for arts and crafts and such, so when they grow up they're more comfortable picking something they've used before instead of the alien oil paint which has a stigma for being used by professionals
>>
traditional is for rich hobbyists
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>>5618083
M Graham > Daniel Smith >>>>>>> all other brands
>>
Can any of you guys recommend a lowly beg some tutorials for painting with watercolors?
>>
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>>5619638
youtube channels
james gurney
mind of watercolor
in liquid color
arleebean
teoh yi chie
>>
>>5619638
https://www.youtube.com/c/MasatoWatanabe/videos
>>
>>5619662
Gurney and Mind of Watercolor are decent. The other three are garbo, and more watercolor paraphilia review channels than anything to learn from.

Also actually decent are:
>Watercolor Online with Michael Solovyev
>Liron Yanconsky
>Paul Clark
>>
Just buy pigments and gum arabic to make your own paint.
When you grow as an artist you can use the pigments to make other "variants" of paint. Guoache, egg tempera, oil, casein...
The expensive part will be the support for other paints. Casein is probably flexible enough for paper, and so is animal glue paint. The japs traditiojally use animal glue fo nihonga so it might appeal to some of you weebs.
>>
>>5618571
i still wonder if the backgrounds in sailor moon were also done with them
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>>5619836
yeaaaaaah that's true
When I was learning they got me excited enough to actually make art at least.
those are good suggestions too

here's a few more possibly decent:
Mateusz Urbanowicz
Steven Cronin
Andrew Pitt
Andrew Broussard Watercolors
Dave Usher
>>
>>5620178
Yeah, forgot to mention Misulbu also. Not a tutorial channel, but very good watercolor portraiture. A lot can be learned from observing. Not /beg/ friendly.
>>
>>5619638
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPiQ_mEXdEbB-3Yhiq7gq5w
i like to paint along this guy
>>
>>5620177
They all were, even AKIRA backgrounds were painted with those paints.
>>
>>5618517
that guy's browbone though
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>>5618571
wow this looks amazing

>>5618586
man I love watercolor
>>
best way to learn how to watercolor
like courses or books
>>
>>5616670
With regards to technique used for the actual paint, oil paint is more versatile, and with more possibilities on how handling is altered. There are many historical procedures that are actually quite different from each other.
Just the supports have a great variety in material and ground.
>>
>>5620418
through the youtube thots
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>>5620275
i see. pretty neat. too bad we dont get them here so easy.
>>
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>>5620762
Yeah, it's gouache on easy mode. These companies are really stuck in their ways, Namura brushes, the TMK poster paper and Nicker Poster Colours could be sold to young artists in Europe that have an interest in anime, manga and or comics.
In Europe I only found an italian online store but they don't sell outside Italy. Really annoying because they even have the 40ml bottles.
Jetpens have 20ml tubes but they now only ship via FedEx which I don't want.
Amazon JP might be an option with package forwarding.
These are the Nicker 130ml bottles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMwNilk-YyE
>>
>>5620762
>https://www.amazon.com/Sakura-Poster-Color-Kurepasu-Set〔japan/dp/B004C4HPWG/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=sakura+poster+color+set&qid=1631565419&sr=8-2

I recommend trying these out if you're interested in poster colors. They're not lightfast at all, but they're wonderful for sketching, and scanning. these are a great introduction into poster colors, and they're quite different than gouache. Quite honestly I prefer them over gouache.
>>
>>5616826
>In reality, oil painting is way more easy to leverage into acceptable results as it can be reworked and tweaked way more than watercolor can be
This is true. Bob Ross built a whole show on how basically anyone can paint good landscapes with wet on wet oils in thirty minutes.
>>
>>5615989
Too accurate. most water colorists on here do not even have other medium they have tried so they say watercolor is the best. Or they have dabbled only with others using basic tube paint.
>>
>>5620803
yeah i dont really get it either. i was wondering the other day if you could make your own poster colors, but i havnt looked too much into it. whats so special about the paper though? i think i never saw any comparison for that.

>>5620804
oh nice these actually come to where i live, even if pretty expensive for me. thank you anon!
>>
this thread convinced me to go drop a g on oil paints, get fucked watercolour faggots. have fun with your arts and crafts hobby for housewives
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>>5621730
y u b a dick, cunt?
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>>5618256
Just realised I have never actually used matte medium for its intended purpose
>>
>>5615824
I used to love watercolor but once I tried oil I realized why serious painters use oil.
Watercolor/gouache are unbeatable for on-the-go sketching I'll give you that and they're way easier to digitize properly.
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>>5621939
>Turner wasn't a serious artist
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>>5621803
I got it from this video, also use acrylic gouache.
https://youtu.be/72Rm1zIwvx8
>>
Watercolor is absolute shit. Sure some people can do amazing stuff with it but it runs everywhere you always need to work for it to dry and you can't fux mistakes.
Unless you go for watercolor effects it is just shit.
>>
>>5622077
If you want easymode, go back to digital
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>>5622077
if you use the right kind of paper (100% cotton) you can undo pretty much any mistake you make. dampen a stiff brush and scrub the area with the mistake, wipe away with clean paper towel.
pigment is only going to flow where there's moisture. if a puddle touches a puddle, they're going to mix. try to keep in mind what sections of your painting are wet and dry as your work so you can move around and not interrupt your process.
>>
>>5621976
I've actually only ever used acrylic medium to seal my drawings on illustration board to then oil paint over.

>>5622077
Git gud. You can absolutely paint neatly with watercolour.
>>
oil is best! is u not use OIL U SUCK ASSSS!!!21212121
OIL OIL IOL OIL IOL OIL OIL
water is cunt color paint
water color is the textile art of the paint wolrd, fuk yuyY!!
>>
>>5620178
What amazes me is thet Urbanowicz makes a living off of his stuff.
>>
>>5620803
It's really sad to me that animation background painting with poster colors, gouache and acrylic all died out. They were basically the forefront of using those mediums alongside movie posters.
Digital basically made all three relegated to kids and art students and all that knowledge of how to use them effectively died off so people think acrylics for example are objectively worse than oil even though it can be used as a really cool bridge between watercolor and oil.
>>
>>5622586
I like him but he literally makes a living off "I am a Western artist who made it in Japan" if he made the same stuff on the same level but lived in his home country he'd be a nobody.
>>
>>5621954
Turner made hundreds of oil paintings.
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>>5618083
ive used mijello its fine just some colors have weird pigment blends?? like their burnt sienna,
ive used the cotman pan sets but i hate how hard it was to rewet
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>>5622665
He doesn’t have to worry too much about getting deported. O bet he has a spousal visa.
I will say that being a western artist has to be the most significant handicap to making it in Japan, even if he brags too much about.
>>
>>5622675
What I meant is that his main draw for his public is the fact that he is living a very coveted lifestyle and his artwork constantly insists on this meta aspect. He's a good artist but there are a few cases of mediocre artists doing the same shtick with the same Ghibli knockoff style and making a living off tutorials and artwork that wouldn't get any attention if it was made in France.
His skills matter but the big deal about his work is that he's a Westerner working in Japan, sketching Japan in a Japanese style.
>>
>>5622686
I agree that it’s gimmicky: hopefilly he doesn’t stagnate
>>
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>>5622658
Acrylic ink is really good, with some mediums you can get interesting results, acrylic gouache too.
Oil paint is a mystery to me as I've never used it but never seen anyone get on Leyendecker level so I imagine it's really hard to those calligraphic brush strokes.
>>
>>5622671
Holbein is a bit like that, hard to flow, not a fan of their watercolors. Might try Daniel Smith next.
>>
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>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHJNQYc3ync

are there any youtube channels that teach the specifics of painting like this?
>>
>>5622933
>wahhhh hold my hand for everything
it's called learn the fundamentals and practice on your own.
>>
>>5622941
right so do you have any recommendations for sources to learn fundamentals given what I want to learn?
>>
>>5622942
youtube tutorials of watercolor, gouache, or poster paints on youtube especially japanese. the techniques are incredibly basic and standard which you'd know if you even painted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYxOjgGdZXw
>>
>>5622933
Did you even tr looking? Nicker has their own channel.
>>
I never noticed until this thread that watercolorists are such brand fags
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>>5622996
It's because offbrand watercolours are such undiluted garbage that they make the average acrylics or oils from Lidl seem like premium artist grade materials.

There's actually not much practical difference in quality between actual watercolor brands, but since the difference between decent brands and offbrands is so big, people tend to latch on to the first decent ones they get their hands on.
>>
>>5623745
Cheap oil paints and even a lot of mid-high grade ones are shit, but you won't notice that they are shit until they dry and the additives make them look washed out. This is so common that they do not even notice.
>>
>>5616663
I depends what you want to do with it. Watercolor needs to be applied on a good quality paper unless it's just pure shit. And as other anons said, it's difficult to master and not really forgiving. Watercolor and painting techniques are really not the same.

I feel that gouache is best of both world. Cheap, easy, feels like actual paint. Acrylics are the easiest and cheapest paint out there, but that's just plastic in a tube so we'll have to get rid of this soon.
Oil is magnificent but you have to deal with so much harmful chemicals it's a bit disappointing.
Now I just make my own inks and I'm fine with it.
>>
You can tell the difference between mixing expensive and cheap pigments almost immediately. Cheap paints often have more additives and more pigments in them. (Even sometimes many pigments to achieve the look of a different single pigment. What's called a hue)
Mix cheap paints together and you'll get much duller mixes.
>>
>>5623751

>Oil is magnificent but you have to deal with so much harmful chemicals it's a bit disappointing.
No you don't. You don't need to thin your paint.
Of course, the more durable paints are those with lead, but most do not use it. Painters use cadmium for reds and yellows instead of red lead/vermilion and lead-tin yellow or naples yellow, but so do watercolorists. Probably more toxic in watercolor because of being thinned.
You can clean leave your brushes in walnut or poppy oil when not in use and clean with soap.
>>
>>5623747
Talens Gouache is like that, looks good once still fresh on the paper, a few days later it looks blotchy, muddy and dull.
>>
>>5623760
Yeah I've found some brands of gouache and acrylic gouache just look chalky and rough.
I assume it's because they literally use calcium carbonate for opacity instead of a higher pigment load and more opaque pigments.
>>
>>5623751
>gouache
>cheap
unless you're using those meme jelly paints like himi or miya, not really
All the decent brands like holbein or winsor&newton are quite expensive
>>
>>5623776
Yeah they are more expensive than oils per ml. People mostly do small paintings with them because of how much paint they would need to do larger paintings like oil.
>>
>>5623760
But with oil it happens in months. This is because of aluminum stereate which is added to tube paint to make the oil and pigment not separate in storage.
>>
>>5623801
there are atoxic, vegetable based solvents that dry within reasonable times.
>>
>>5623805
Did you misquote? The post was not about oil paint drying slowly. It is about oil paints developing a cloudy haze months after drying.
>>
>>5623809
Sorry, yes. It was meant for
>>5623751
>Oil is magnificent but you have to deal with so much harmful chemicals it's a bit disappointing.
>>
>>5615824
The best paint variant is red cabbage and other plants (depends where you live), but only if you are dirt poor or a student. Otherwise the best variant is
>>
>>5623759
>You can clean leave your brushes in walnut or poppy oil when not in use and clean with soap.
Oh yeah? Even the metal part? Won't the oil soak the wood at some point and fuck up the brush?
I also stopped oil for a bit because the cleaning process with soap was tedious, even after cleaning most of the paint with turpentine.
I made my own paint with pigments and standolie because I like thick paint, maybe that's why it was difficult to clean?

>>5623776
>All the decent brands like holbein or winsor&newton are quite expensive
Well yes, there are expensive gouaches but for studies you don't have to buy extra-thin gouache. In my country we have some brands that I find affordable.

>>5623805
>atoxic
Yeah but I've never search enough informations about this to trust it. Do you happen to know if it's also harmless for environnement?
>>
>>5623745
>There's actually not much practical difference in quality between actual watercolor brands,

While it's true you wont see much a of a difference in over all quality, you will feel a difference in between brands.

Daniel Smith tends to have better granulation.

Holbein don't travel as far with wet on wet, and are stiffer when dry, takes a bit more to re-wet them, which is not good or bad just depends on what you like.

Sennelier are very creamy, soft even when dry, take very little water to re-wet, and travel very far with wet on wet. Their reds and browns make amazing skin tones, and they tend not to form dark edges when you do wet on dry.

W&N is kind of the in between, I don't feel anything special from them, but they are very reliable, and do what you expect.

Those are the 4 brands I'm familiar with and they all behave very different.
>>
>>5623840
https://www.traditionaloilpainting.com/portfolio-item/brushes/
Oil soaking through the wood is not a problem because it does not evaporate like water or solvent. Problems normally happen when the wood expands with moisture and contracts repeatedly. As it expands, the wood is pressed against the ferrule, bruising it. When it contracts, ths bruised wood is more compressed and loosens from the ferrule.
>>
>>5623840
>Do you happen to know if it's also harmless for environnement?
My bottle says
>"an ecological solvent, plant-based, biodegradable, non volatile, non toxic. Allows for thorough removal of oil paints for brushes, painting knives, palettes, etc. Can be used to dilute paints. Does not alter the tone of oil paints, lengthens drying times."
I only use it to clean, for painting I use walnut oil. The drying times are much longer than they would be compared to mineral spirits or turp but it's perfectly doable if time is not a big deal.
>>
>>5623780
isn't that more to do with drying and color matching issues?
syd mead did larger gouache paintings, but only after a max autism planning phase involving painting an identical smaller version so he could mix up jars of all the colors and make sure they dried to match it.
>>
>>5624159
>only after a max autism planning phase involving painting an identical smaller version
that's what you usually do if you're a decent illustrator, it's not a medium thing
>>
>>5623840
>In my country we have some brands that I find affordable.
name some anon, I'd like to check them out if I can (I'm in europe)
>>
>>5624165
fair enough
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>>5623856
Sennelier gouache is just like that too, although I only have two colors, might get more as I really liked the softness and easy flow.
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>>5623856
>W&N is kind of the in between, I don't feel anything special from them, but they are very reliable, and do what you expect.
I have used them during my learning phase, they're not lightfast or archivial. As in, the colors will disappear in a few years and a few of their browns are too grainy. very inexpensive though
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>>5623856
I find it is the same for complimentary colors and color mixing.
Color wheels are vague and useless compared to doing out swatches of specific paints by specific brands using specific pigments and manufactured at a specific date or location.

You have to test everything yourself and then prepare to be sad in the future when your favorite paints get taken off the market or the amount of additives increases/pigment decreases or the factory moves to china or something.
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>>5624250
>complimentary
it's complementary, not complimentary
complement, not compliment. compliment is when you praise someone
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>>5624188
umton is pretty affordable but they brand it as "tempera"
i had it and its pretty okay
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>>5624326
I know it's just hard to not type that i when the e is so rare. I've even corrected people before kek
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>>5624326
colors have cripplingly low self esteem and get immediately suspicious and dark when you give them compliments.
>>
For anyone using watercolor, do you keep your paints moist or not? If you keep them moist, can you keep the mold away? Or there isn't anything we can do about it?
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>>5625278
I use holbein and mission gold. This is also the case with d.smith. The watercolors from the tubes will basically turn into watercolor pans when you let them dry. good watercolors reactivate easily, and don't crack when they dry.
>>
did I do the thing?
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>>5615824
Painting with negative spaces in mind gave me colorectal cancer
t. realist painter
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>>5624188
Schminke is alright, Pébéo is cheap but I guess it's only good when you want to learn. Lefranc-Bourgeois has also some cheap colors but I've never been satisfied with anything from this brand.
Lefranc-Bourgeois also sells a medium for oil colors to simulate the gouache tempera touch, it's the "Médium à l'oeuf Xavier De Langlais". It was made with an artist who is known for his book about recipes for artists. I've never tried it and I don't know if it's any good.
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>>5623745
>>5622996
i think we do not see as much brand name experimentation with oil painters because most are painting in a way where they change the working characteristic of the paint to their needs using mediums rather than caring about how the paint is like out of the tube. most just want high pigment, and they do not even know if a brand has some has additives. so any artist grade paint is good enough. they are formulated to be similar to each other in consistency. there are of the high end ones that i never encounter anyone using because they are expensive, and the ones that go for them are more specific about the type of work they want to achieve. maybe some would choose m graham because they are made with walnut oil, and they are pretty dcently priced. high end ones ottomh are williamsburg, vasari, micheal harding, rublev, i think blockx. To my knowledge they all claim to not use additives.
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>>5625466
Grind size of the pigments also is much less of a factor in oil than it is in watercolour. In watercolour, it's a significant factor in granulation.

Further, difference between single pigment and multi-pigment colours can be rather apparent due to granulation. Sometimes the colours separate, for better or worse. This means that even well matched substitute colours with multi-pigments behave different from the original pigment. As it is possible to get the same hue with different configurations of pigments, the manufacturers sometimes differ.
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>>5625653
Pigment particle sizes plays many noticeable factors in oil paint.
Depending on mean particle size as well as variation in sizes, and depending on the pigment, oil paint handles differently, looks differently in opacity and hue, store differently, has different levels of archivability (strength, yellowing, stability), and require different kinds of vehicle to form a paint.
Most paint manufacturers get their pigments from the same sources except for specialty ones, and that is probably true for water color as well as oil since most of the ones creating oil paints are also creating watercolor paints. These pigments are primarily manufactured for other things like house and car paint or some other non-paint uses.
It's just that most oil painters have come to expect the tooth paste texture from most manufacturers.
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>>5615824
it's cheap as fuck.
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>>5625801
There's a surprising amount of difference, actually.
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>>5625814
Or course, they have different milling operation and time, but they are already getting the particle quite fine.They are not mining, synthesizing, and purifying toxic materials just so retirees and starving artists can paint. Is that with the binder in suspension as well?
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>>5625814
switching between paint brands in watercolors often feels like switching mediums. There's that big of a difference sometimes
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>>5625822
In fact most of the pigments are already milled to a point where it's hard for the paint manufacturer to do anything. It is simply that the pigment manufacturers sell different grinding grades of the pigments to them - and likely a different grind size is used for oils and watercolours as well.

The test was done with 1/4 teaspoon of the paint straight from the tube in water. It includes whichever binder the paint manufacturer uses, in quantities that they're using. Control is 50-50 mix of Kremer's Cadmium Orange #2 pigment and Gum Arabic solution.
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>>5625843
>In fact most of the pigments are already milled to a point where it's hard for the paint manufacturer to do anything.
Are you saying they are too coarse or already fine? In the case for cadmium, the way it is synthesized makes the particles already much finer and more uniform than crushed mineral like vermilion however finely ground. Synthetic ultramarine is also finer than crushed genuine ultramarine and less varied in size.
The difference in sedimentation is probably influenced more by the amount of binder, as a thicker solution suspends particles longer.
As for earth colors I am not sure what the procedure is.
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Anybody used Sakura before? Them good?
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>>5625891
>Are you saying they are too coarse or already fine?
No. I'm saying that there's different grades of grinds that the paint manufacturers can buy, and that different brands choose different grind sizes for various reasons - price and desired qualities.

The finer the grind, the more vehicle/water you need to wet the paint, and as such the paint is more viscous. Finer particles also stain more and are harder to lift. Smaller pigments also last less time for archival purposes, and scatter light more - this allows them to be more transparent, provided that their tinting strength is sufficient.

Most of this does not matter for oils and acrylics, as the difference in refractive index between the pigment and the medium (oil or acrylic) is less than the difference between pigment and air. Watercolours do not form a paint layer like these two.
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>>5625907
worse than winsor and newton. Stay the fuck away. Get sonnet/white nights if you want something good but affordable
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>>5625907
>>5625984
desu I preferred the sakuras over a cotman set. however it depends if you're going to be painting with a more western or eastern approach.
sakuras are good if you want to lay down your final color and not do too many layers. they're more opaque than most watercolors and I found were quite fun to sketch with. I wouldn't recommend them for anything beyond sketching.
white nights have a very good reputation. I've heard semi-decent things about arteza, but it's definitely student grade.
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>>5626032
>western or eastern approach
redpll me on this
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>>5625909
In the case of cadmium in your example, it cannot be ground much finer than how it already is produced. If there is grainy cadmium it is probably from pigment particles that have aggregated. The same for other synthetic oxides. For colored clays assuming they go through a levigation process, they are 5 microns at most.
The amount of vehicle for different sizes is no different for oil, which affects fat over lean. Finer particles are more actually opaque. Some are more vibrant when fine, while some are more gray. This is a property of some of the pigments, but it affects how it should be applied with oil to be effective.
Not only particle size, but also variation and morphology affect handling and strength in oil, with the pigments locking onto each other. If coarse enough, pigments require thicker binders, with more of the oil between particles. They appear more luminous provided that the oil retains its clear glass-like refractive index or does not react with some of the pigments. Course ground malachite for example reacts with oil and turns brown and cloudy, but it has to be coarse for it to be saturated.
It only seems like it does not matter because modern oil painting is generally opaque with no regard for handling differences between pigments and their sizes. You can add medium to make something transparent or change handling but it is not always archival practice.
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>>5626071
western watercolors are typically more transparent. they work best when you slowly build up layers.

eastern watercolors have less finely ground pigment, and are usually more opaque. they work better when you reach your final color you want in your painting on your palette. Fewer layers.
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>>5626100
also western watercolors really emphasize their ability to flow whereas eastern watercolors, since the final color is applied straight away, don't need to flow as much.
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>>5626100
I think Holbein confuse people cause they are well known japanese watercolors but are meant to work like european watercolors.
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>>5625814
m graham chads win again
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>>5626219
>>5625814
but where is schmincke?
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>>5627301
where were they in the 1930s?
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>>5618947
>unironically recommending student brushes
you're literally pulling money out of the ferrule every time you paint, and for what? that you need three subpar brushes to do the work one quality brush can? what a waste on a singular tool that can last you for years
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>>5617297
>You can layer infinitely
I guess my paints are just shit because the shit just flakes off if I use too many layers
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>>5629103
mabye. but it sounds more like you're using too much water when loading your brush. acrylics shouldn't flake off at all, no matter how many layers you have. if you like to work with thin paint, you need to mix in a medium or fluid or high-flow types of paint. pic related
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>>5628903
Yeah but even the pro brushes only last a few paintings, these aren't gold/synthetics or kolinsky.
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>>5629134
dude what are you talking about? I've had and used the same brush since 2014 and it still works perfectly. Take care of your materials.
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>>5629134
I'm talking about japan animation background art materials.
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>>5615824
So, watercolour or oil?
i`m aiming high but i´ve seen that few watercolourers achieve something great meanwhile oilets are the equivalent of roiders
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>>5629246
Casein and animal glue paint are both superior to water color in the first place.
Water color as a washy medium is also a modern concept. In the past it was applied much heavier and white was used more except for tinting ink drawings and prints.
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I recently started watercoloring a few months ago tell me what you guys think?
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Here is another I did as well. But I made some mistakes here and there.
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>>5629999
>watercolor
1/4 of the painting isnt even watercolor
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This is kazuo oga working on a traditional painting with poster colors

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTZhMGMe3SU

Does anyone know what type of brush the middle one is? I know the round is a sumi brush, and the one in his hand is a hake. is the one laying down also a hake?
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>>5630946
Flat brush, it's very expensive, there's a reason his one is used to hell.
It's made by Namura. The water reservoir is made by Holbein.
I've researched all that as I was always amazed by animation background art.
https://twitter.com/jp_ghibli/status/1351364003864276994
https://www.drapas.jp/pdf/catalogue_08.pdf

Check this channel and try asking him:
https://www.youtube.com/user/mattenande
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>>5631089
Thanks anon, very helpful
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are cheap oil paints worth the try?
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>>5631583
No, just buy 3 tubes (primaries) of a better quality paint.
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>>5631587
primaries are stupid.
white, black, red, and yellow. not using black paint is a meme. blue is over used. old masters did better works without relying on it for dulling skin tones.
never use white with zinc in it.

cheaper would be to buy or make the pigments. easiest would be black since it is just burnt wood or bones. start with egg tempera or buy linseed oil which most artists buy along with tube paints anyway. less than 40 dollars.
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>>5615824
Oil and watercolor are both good
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>>5631663
why should I get into mixing paint for a medium I never even tried before?





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