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1.-Gesture is only relevant to figure drawing.

>Scott Robertson doesn’t use gesture
>Industrial design artist don’t use gesture
>Architects don’t use gesture
>KimgJunggi doesn’t use it (but he does use perspective)
2.- Even In figure drawing gesture is meaningless without perspective.

I don’t even mean basic 1-2-3 point. Gesture without perspective are literally just random scribbles because you won’t even understand what the hell it means in 3d space. You don’t even understand things get bigger the closer you are.


And all the teachers that say the opposite is because they forgot perspective they grasped perspective first it comes as second nature.

3.-People can’t even agree what “gesture” is.

Everyone has a different definition. At worst you get a “feel the energy” bullshit everyone regurgitates. At best you get a” line that cone ran the forms’ explanation which is not helpful.hatsoever.

Perspective IS the most important fundamental, not gesture.
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>>6194476
/ic/ itself is basically a beg trap.
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>>6194476
Perspective isn't a technique, Gesture doesn't mean drawing long swooping lines, although that is a common way to practice it. it's a concept explaining a particular component of a drawing. You can't draw good figures and not "use" gesture. KJG uses gesture.
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>>6194486
Sorry, I meant "Gesture isn't a technique"
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>>6194486
>KGJ uses gesture.

No he isn’t. I have yet to see use random scribblers to “capture the energy” (whatever that’s supposed to mean)

Unless you want to use the bullshit “everything uses gesture” definition.

But if you use that bullshit t definition then it’s meaningless to practice “gestures because everyone already has it anyway.
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>>6194491
I agree with you anon. There's nothing distinguishing gestures from a statue other than action lines. It's literally a meme.
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>>6194486
>KGJ uses gesture.

No he isn’t. I have yet to see him use random scribblers to “capture the energy” (whatever that’s supposed to mean) as a foundation for his drawing.

Unless you want to use the bullshit “everything has gesture” definition (see point 3)

But if you use that bullshit definition then it’s meaningless to practice “gestures because everything already has an “inherent gesture”

Conveniently ignoring industrial doesn’t artist/architects that don’t use gesture
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>>6194493
>OOOOHHH MY COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO DRAWING EXTREME EXAMPLE
gesture niggers on suicide watch holy fuck.
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>>6194493
Anon, you do realize you can arrange your basic forms in dynamic poses without needing to do random curves (aka gestures) right?
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>draw swoopy lines
>draw boxes over them
This is "using gesture"
>imagine swoopy lines
>draw boxes over where they would be
This is "not using gesture" according to retard faggot OP

Stop making shit threads and JD you dumb nigger
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>>6194507
>Moving the goalpost kek.
Gesturefags in full copious mode.

For the record that’s called a “sketch” retard.
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t. gesturelet
also pyw
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>>6194476
>Perspective IS the most important fundamental, not gesture.

imagine thinking there's hierarchy between the fundamentals. you can suck in any one of them and it will show immediately.

jesus, imagine thinking gesture is a whole ass independent thing and not just a method to fix static poses IF that's a problem

what the fuck ahahhahhahhhahhaha

either you're trolling or just really dumb
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>>6194515
You are literally such a dumb gorilla retard nigger it's not worth explaining to you. Keep ooking and eeking at your screen and be a permabeg forever.
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>>6194524
LOL Yes anon your scribbles will so,shied make you draw like KGJ Amy day now (sarcasm)
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>>6194539
Nice niglish
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>>6194476
So you are saying Vilppu, Loomis, Hampton and Huston are wrong?

Why does /ic/ shill them so hard then?
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In the end of the day, you'll need to know well perspective and gestures, you can't escape that, perspective is like arithmetic in mathematics, you'll need to know it before move on to more advanced mathematics
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read motherfuckers read
freaking begs dont know shit then call it bull, new level of dunning kruger
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This is why there are no good artists on /ic/. When permabeg faggots like these think they are smarter that industry professionals
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90% of /ic's critique is "you suck so bad you should quit".

That said gesture drawing is unsurpassed if you're drawing active fiction. It might not be the most important but there's nothing more important if you're in comics and animation.

I found myself gesture drawing unintentionally as a self taught beginner.
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>>6194609
Industry professionals don't always know the best teaching methods, brainlet.

You can be the best artist ever and still be a bad teacher.
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>>6194632
>You can be the best artist ever and still be a bad teacher.
this is true

but

you fail to consider that there's no single right route to learning art and most teachers' advice comes from an autobiographical standpoint anyway. the fundamentals work in tandem and after a certain level of quality it's often one of the more vague skills that differentiate a good artist from a great one.
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>>6194476
if you don't learn gesture you are forever fucked and will have ugly stiff fucked poses.
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Think of what the word "gesture" means.

Gesture = a movement of part of the body, especially a hand or the head, to express an idea or meaning.

Gesture literally means posture, body-laugnage, acting. KJG definitely uses Gesture. He may not do "gesture drawing", which a way of isolating the gesture for practice, but he definitely uses gesture. The reason why so many people express gesture in so many ways is because gesture is just the pose, not the actual lines you use to define the pose. You can do gesture drawing with just boxes!
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>>6194476
>Gesture
KEK
CSI >>> MAH GESTURE >>> MAH PERSPECTIVE
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>>6194660
>and most teachers' advice comes from an autobiographical standpoint anyway
Not necessarily.
A lot of them forget fundamental learning steps and take them for granted.
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>>6194660
It feels like all of them have absolutely forgot what it means to be a beginner. They can easily use gesture because they understand what they are drawing.
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>>6194811
>>6194826
you can't honestly expect books or videos to be tailor made for you exact needs?

you need actual feedback to your work to say that and in that case you can ask for your teacher to explain the parts you're not getting
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>>6194476
>Gesture is only relevant to figure drawing.
no, not at all.

>Even In figure drawing gesture is meaningless without perspective.
kinda true

>People can’t even agree what “gesture” is.
well, kinda. but if you know, you know.
personally i'd say it's about how everything is arranged and where everything is in relation to each other. some people also talk about "force" or "energy" or "weight", but those are more like the things that make the gesture feel more realistic or dynamic. i'd say gesture itself is simply the arrangement of a single complex object.

i'll give you this: perspective is indeed a bit underrated as a fundamental. but what does this matter? you need to master all the fundamentals, not just some (or well, it depends on what your goal is).
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>>6194840
> no, not at all.

Ok then explain why Industrial design doesn’t need gesture drawing.
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>>6194691
Oh so you are type 3 using a bullshit definition.

Again if “everything already has gesture” then it’s not a fundamental
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>>6194887
because you're not drawing something that can move in an organic and complex way. a chair will look the same from every angle so you only need to know its proportions and perspective to draw it.

meanwhile living things can move and be arranged in such complex ways that even if you know proportions and basic data, it'd still not be enough to even jsut describe it doing the simplest motions. that's where gesture comes in.
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>>6194906
>proportions and basic data
proportions and its* basic data
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gesture is just easy once you get the hang of it and it looks really good and emotive thats why people talk about it and focus on it. they dont want to move on to harder skills and want to keep making neat looking sketches
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>>6194476
gesture is a meme, i have no idea why anyone recommends it at all. it's basically just a practiced guideline that one can draw quickly whenever starting new drawings, but I don't draw with any guidelines at all, and never actually start or construct with the gestures I was learning even back when I did use guidelines.

remember the rule anons: if you don't actually use it in a real scenario, you're being sold snake oil.

also if you can't feel the form you are an autist who needs to stop treating art like math or a step by step recipe, seriously. realistically, you're probably just being distracted by guidelines and references, draw from imagination and you should be able to feel the form. try draw a big boobas that feels like it's really massive and in front from imagination, you'll be feeling the form in no time.
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>>6194906

>because you're not drawing something that can move

You do know industrial design objects like cars, can move or have moving parts right?

Sigh The absolute state of /ic
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>>6194913
we have a genius here!

you know that those things aren't particularly complex in terms of movement, right?
they don't spin and swivel on multiple axis, unless it's some robot arm. and guess what, you can draw those with gesture.
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>>6194476
Retard.
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>>6194916
Jesus you are retarded. You are just proving my point. You can in fact draw without gesture.

Even assuming you were right. Gesture still wouldn’t be the most important fundamental
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Gesture as a concept is important, and doing timed studies is very good.

However if you actually sit down to grind parkinsons noodles a la proko or hampton you are a genuine retard.
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>>6194894
>type 3 using a bullshit definition
what are you talking about?

>Again if “everything already has gesture” then it’s not a fundamental
Well, everything has form, right? Everything has light and shadow.
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>>6194929
Yes but you can in fact draw a cube without needing to render it
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>>6194476
depends on what you draw
you sound unhinged with low testosterone, quite possibly low vitamin d too

get tested asap
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>>6194925
you need it to draw living things. or complex moving things. it's fundamental there.
you're only right if you assume it's alright to only draw static and highly angular objects. but most artists do and want to draw living things.

you do not need it to draw a cube. but so what, you also don't need perspective to draw a flat triangle.

besides, you can use gesture for cars as well.
as for how, you just try to see how certain lines align with each other. if they point towards somewhere, maybe the front is more slanted than the back, etc.
but it's not as important because proportion can get you there anyway since the car will never change form (for the most part).
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>>6194911
i'd be curious if you can draw anything worth a damn at all.
because to begin with, gesture is not about the lines or even strictly about the guides, gesture is a concept.
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>>6194476
>ITT permabeg who can't grasp gesture constructs art conspiracy in his head to make himself feel better
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>>6194944
if all gesture was was just a concept, then yeah I know that concept, and without doing dumb traditional gesture studies.

i can feel the form and whatever when I imagine a cool pose, and draw it fast enough before the strength of the image disappears from my head. it isn't an ugly useless guideline but a clean sketch / lineart that I actually like the look of, but takes much longer.

doing it isn't my bread and butter tho, thinking about it it wouldn't be a bad idea to do it more often.
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anti-gesture fags pyw or you're either baiting or permabeg nodraws
I do gesture studies every single day as a warm up. here's a quick sketch I just did using gesture (shown on left) as a key foundation
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just scribble like a retard until it looks good
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>>6194476
There are no even concept of gesture in russian academic tradition.
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>>6195038
wrong
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>>6195086
Prove him wrong Ivan
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>>6195038
russian academic tradition doesn't cover much other topics than drawing and painting people lmao nice try
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>>6194476
I agree that's not the most important, but it's still pretty useful to keep your figures from looking stiff. Definitely worth practicing.
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>>6195086
Then prove it. All what i seen were croques, but not gestures. There are no even special word for gesture.
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>>6194495
I think it's more like he already has drawn that shit a thousand times so he's already memorized it. He is aware of all of the landmarks and then goes from there.
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>>6194476
>artists who don't draw figures don't use gesture!!
Wow, you figured it out retard.
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>>6194476
holy fucking cope
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>>6194944
>gesture is a concept
lines on paper are a concept....holy fuggin retard
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>>6194476
imagine architects using gesture on their drawings lmao
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>>6194938
Low IQ as well
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>>6194476
ask those artists if you should learn gesture
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>>6194802
The heck is CSI
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>>6196451
Draw everything using C S and I lines
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I have a confession to make. I sometimes tell others gesture is a meme on this board but it's essential to drawing from imagination.
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>>6196451
Crime Scene Investigation
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I think gesture naturally comes to you as you draw and you don't need to directly study it
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>>6194476
study gesture from based anime figures and fighting games or people who actually good at it
lame ass 3d irl people mostly suck at gesture and very boring to draw that probably why you are salty
If you dont like long autistic curved lines or you dont understand them you may try any other what to capture a cool pose. but from my expirience long autistic lines help you learn and simplify poses with long ass action line going trough entire body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB2WTEUdwRo&list=PLnemJCrPwbS-_0hytVXY7ScOb7zrMQ95r&index=3

https://youtu.be/3AMcTam3_hM
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>>6194476
>1.-Gesture is only relevant to figure drawing.
what else do you want to fucking draw? Trees? clouds? Living things are the most important thing to draw. And even putting gesture into inanimate objects will improve your art.
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>>6198694
it is definitely possible that it can be naturally understood by some people off rip, but that doesn't mean it's intuitive to everyone. just like not everyone picks up on perspective naturally or lighting/shading.
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>>6194501
Sounds like you don’t understand feature
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>>6194476
digital niggers fear the gesture what else is new
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>>6194523
>just a method to fix static poses
that would be a close definition, if your poses always look stiff you need gesture.
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I love the "stiff" critique, it roughly translate to "there is something broken in the anatomy, but I don't know what, so I'm gonna call it stiff, just draw more gestures"
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>>6200057
permabeg
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>>6194501
>arrange your basic forms
that’s just composition
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>>6194476
Why the fuck are you even writing shit like that?
Just fucking learn to do it and stop being bitching like fat pig on period.
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gesture is a the trap that has
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>>6194476
>>6194491
>>6194495
>>6194497
>>6194501
>>6194515
>>6194539
you are such a fucking retard. dumb niggers like you who are never going to make it talk about dumb shit like this. these lukewarm, cringe, redditor-on-4chan-baiting-"for teh lulz" takes do not cross the minds of any real artist with real skill. they just don't.
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>>6202036
based
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>>6194622
>That said gesture drawing is unsurpassed if you're drawing active fiction.
A better use of time is copying the artists you like instead of doing scribble bullshit. I regret my hundreds of wasted hours on scribbles.
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>>6200057
Good point.
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>>6201806
Who is this?
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>>6201471
brainlet
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>>6194476
/thread
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>>6194476
I have no idea what you are on about, I have never actually talk to anyone who says that gesture is "the most important fundamental" across different subjects.

gestures from my experience (in the context of figure drawing studies) is suppose to capture the general thrust of the figure with economy of lines in observational practice, while there are different approach its hardly random.

I wonder how many of you actually experience life drawing classes, and I can't imagine starting one of those without having done some sort of observational gesture drawings, and how construction and proportions are taught without it, I am actually very curious.

>>6201806
what a windbag, what he is saying is just semantic of things people do anyway, he makes the distinction to take ownership of it. I can just imagine now, he'll pace back-n-forth in quiet classroom behind the students while they are trying to draw and recite these bullshit like stupid mantra.
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>>6194476
I agree, the key to being a good artist is having a strong fundation on perspective first and foremost, all the GREAT artists are amazing at it

Gesture is a cope from Proko-like people that draw aborted kangaroo fetuses
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>>6203392
Meanwhile, Kim Jung Gi can draw WAY more detailed and more expressive people without these retarded little kid gesture lines
Kek
Gesture is just a cope for people that don't understand perspective and can't draw from imagination or rather ''Understanding of the subject''
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>>6202036
OP btfo
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>>6204217
>Meanwhile, Kim Jung Gi can draw WAY more detailed and more expressive people without these retarded little kid gesture lines
if your understanding of gesture is that its just wavy lines then you don't understand gesture
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holy FUCK does this thread reek of ignorance. OP, shut the fuck up, pick up a book by steve huston, and educate yourself before you become an absolute fucking embarrassment to the art community and yourself. Gesture isnt a "bunch of lines", thats like saying drawing is just "a bunch of shapes on paper", you are missing the entire point and dont even know the purpose of why gesture even exists. Sure, it may sound esoteric at first, but you'll only ever understand it's purpose when you actually practice it, and practice it correctly. For the biggest scope of it's definition, it is the essential capturing of a subject. underneath that, its figure drawings. but more so capturing anything. landscapes, a car, a bird, a house etc. We humans focus... alot. its in our nature when trying to capture our prey, we focus and wait and spring into action for survival. Gesture takes you out of that mindset, it unravels your mind, it releases all those focus-heavy tendencies making you focus on the subject itself, rather than the details. It is the ghost-fundamental of art, its the very "soul" meme you ic-fags keep on talking about, THAT is what gives it soul. I was just like you too, thinking "what the fuck does gesture even mean? i can just draw shapes and rotate them to my heart's content!" -- WRONG. Gesture is one of those abstract concepts that hold your piece from the shadows, just like tempo (another concept greatly similar to gesture, but more so to do with design)
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>>6204840
yeah exactly all of this. gesture is the stage in your drawing where you get to inject the most of your artistic vision.
it's where the most squashing/stretching/pulling/pushing of your subject happens. it's the stage where the dynamism comes into your drawing. that's literally where the 'soul' of the art is born.

gesture isn't about understanding something in 3d space yet. it's about creating landmarks on your paper for key elements of your drawing to be placed around or on top of.
I'm not trying to figure out that the arm is receding into space yet, I'm just trying to measure the distance from the hand to the shoulder.
You're making 2d marks on a pane of glass in front of your 3d subject, you will never "draw" something 3d. you can sculpt if you want. but there will always be a disconnect.
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>>6204352
I understand them, and I can do them, I am just saying they are utterly pointless if you develop a strong understanding of perspective
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>>6204866
perspective isn't the thing you need a strong understanding of to draw without a gesture. you have to understand gesture well to draw without gesture.

any step in art you want to skip, you have to understand that specific thing to skip.

there's nowhere in art where if I want to have perfect anatomy without drawing the construction, then I should just learn how to shade really well.

Like perspective and gesture are related sure, gesture happens in 3d space. but that's not going to help you then ensure your character isn't distributing their weight in such a way where they'll fall over. and it wont help you make them look like they're moving or in action.

yes gim jung ki draws everything inside of a box or with perspective in mind. but it's because he's so comfortable that he can skip around to different parts of the process within his drawing.
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>>6204840
Huston is a dumb boomer who just rambles boomerisms and your posts is schizophrenic. You dumbfucks love to do this motte-and-bailey shit where gesture means whatever you want it to mean to suit your argument.
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>3.-People can’t even agree what “gesture” is.

>Everyone has a different definition. At worst you get a “feel the energy” bullshit everyone regurgitates. At best you get a” line that cone ran the forms’ explanation which is not helpful.hatsoever.
Perfect example of this right here>>6204840
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>>6205215
>Huston is a dumb boomer who just rambles boomerisms and your posts is schizophrenic
lmao
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>>6205215
Pills now
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>>6195036
based & sculpter-pilled
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>>6205223
You've falling into the pit of multiple online tutorials giving different povs/definition. But, do tell me all the different definitions and mine will surely fit it in different words. Other than that, you're a retard that can't decipher definitions.
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For me, gesture is just movement and visual expression in static objects. So it's not a technique, but a characteristic of drawings.
And he's got a point, appealing gesture comes from good perspective, unless you're doing abstract art.
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>>6194916
then why not just use a 3D model if gesture's so fucking useless



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