In TC theoretical framework, I just discovered the following relationship: the 'cultivated' thickness of a 'biform' determines its tendency towards radial or linear properties. This is interesting because it supports the hypothesis of the 'indifferent biform' [the 'brotherhood' is predominant within the 'anticipatory margins'].A biform with minimal 'degrees of freedom' [a circle with hard edges] does not propagate beyond the explicit boundaries of its border. In contrast, a biform with more complex degrees of freedom [a diffuse line] does propagate beyond its limits, increasing the system's entropy.
The fuck is that bullshit? Just draw
It's called line weight you absolute faggot
>>7464187Sorry, I’m not interested in talking to oversocialized representatives of PC [pragmatic creativity]. TC [theoretical creativity] aims to lay the foundations of art. So, if you don’t get our transcendental intentions, that’s on you. How about you go draw an anus with its 100,000 naturalistic hairs? You know, the more empirical lice you represent, the bigger the material-social payoff.Picrel: "" 'balance' of the expressive system "".
>>7464211Ah, yes, the timeless lament of the self-anointed philosopher-artist, wailing against the oppressive tyranny of, what, exactly? The supposed "oversocialization" of people who dare to discuss creative principles in comprehensible terms? Your lofty “transcendental intentions” reek of the same old reactionary posturing dressed up in esoteric jargon—like a freshman who just discovered Kant and thinks sneering is a substitute for insight.
>>7464219I don’t think my goal is that abstract: I’m just looking for efficiency in terms of time, effort, and aesthetics in artistic creation. And let’s be honest, all current artistic knowledge lacks rigid foundations, the canon is just things stuck on the wall after being thrown randomly and in large quantities. Don’t you think that’s highly inappropriate? In response to this, TC was born, which is the desire to fully axiomatize each of the processes involved in artistic production. In theory, with well-developed TC algorithms, what used to take 100 hours could now be done in 1. Although I admit that this might seem ridiculous at the moment.TC doesn’t believe that the aesthetic phenomenon is something esoteric and incomprehensible; no, we rather believe that if one dedicates time to studying it, it can be systematized and tamed.By the way, I don’t like unnecessary conflict. If you’re not interested in this iconoclastic approach, I can understand that. But there’s no need to be sarcastic or ill-intentioned. After all, my autistic intentions are altruistic.
In a few more months, I think we'll have hit peak schizo with this one.
>>7464181>TC was born, which is the desire to fully axiomatize each of the processes involved in artistic production. I am interested and willing to develop this. Tell me more.
>>7464273If I take you at face value I'm forced to conclude that you're the kind of person who can only attain value from being subjected to violence. You should go debate in real life where people will be able to hit you in the face.
>>7464181OP:https://youtu.be/PJIvBeVKoQA?si=blWgaTLKpFCySwKG
>>7464622The absolute potentiality of pure thought, without the limiting filter of materialism, is paradoxically nothing despite being everything. Like the unborn child God’s ambassador in the womb; like white light or sound without silence. The autistic person starves while playing with their sincere feces, but it’s also true that the overly socialized neurotypical fails to achieve transcendence by forgetting their primordial potential. Oscillation is the key. I recognize that I’m too autistic in these threads. I need to improve by appealing to PC, but it’s hard when obscene modernity has betrayed me.In visceral desperation, in opposition to ____, TC was born. Which is only a stepping stone towards a higher purpose.
>>7464181>'cultivated' >'indifferent biform' [the 'brotherhood'>'anticipatory margins'].>increasing the system's entropy.I get what you're saying OP but you've really got to learn to state things more plainly.
You talk way too much for being someone that only ever draws anime girls. At the end of the day,post more drawings and let your art speak for itself, don't tell me what you think show it to me. If you want to get retarded with shape language go into bauhaus, Dieter Rams, etc. You're not going into new grounds yet, people have already thought about this, keep trying tho, also you gay
And his name? Leotardo Da Tismo. Remember this guy, they'll be in your textbooks in about 50 years. Though I can't help but feel you only rediscovered something that's already known, which is good because that means you're on the path to making new discoveries via logic.
TCbabbler breadtrailhttps://warosu.org/ic/thread/7413956https://warosu.org/ic/thread/6940282https://warosu.org/ic/thread/7130066https://warosu.org/ic/thread/7369865
>>7465430thanks anon, keep it up, see you next thread
>>7464181So how do I get started with this method
>>7465445You cultivate some anticipatory biforms, obviously.
INFODUMP/Why is wild stylistic creativity only permitted in contexts of soft rigor (music, painting)? This needs to change. TC says that reality is holistic, and that artificial boundaries between media only limit discovery. We believe in 'conceptual macro primitives' whose permutations span all disciplines. We need to find the relationships. Everything brilliant is a non-arbitrary novelty, TC democratizes and anticipates these esoteric dynamics that currently only randomness can touch. Talent fluctuates within the margins of the social canon, TC expands by studying patterns through subjectivity and objectivity. /INFODUMP>>7464600>>7465445Try to create a simple personal logical system that allows anticipating values in a 2D binary matrix ?x?. For example:10x10x2 (start: 0): (5,5), (1,1) This is a form of TC. There’s no need to heavily appeal to cultural conventions like that example, just remember that subjectivity must be channeled into the objective, and the only factors that determine the intrinsic beauty of the proposed system are its 'simplicity', 'rigor', and 'expressiveness'.TODO: No matter how paradoxical it may seem, it is necessary to formalize the 'informality' of PC. According to recent advances, PC is not an 'enemy', but rather a complementary approach.
PS: By the way, I acknowledge that this thread is 'ugly' because it is not 'symmetrical': the subjective is not balanced with explicit empiricism. Don't point it out. That's why it's just a mini thread. Later, I will correct this by sharing direct applications of the ideas mentioned here.
>>7464181What are your axioms? If you are going to be all rigorous, then at least state your axioms if not develop a formal language for your model. If you are going to just create word salad then you're just going to be a pretentious larper. Don't get me wrong, I myself am trying to develop an art curriculum inspired from math curriculum, but you are just writing empty words.
>>7467318That's what irks me about this lol. I can see that theres actually some substance here. I think the art is pretty neat, reminds me a lot of geometric design in graphic design, which is why I think it's cool this person might be arriving at these conclusions by themselves, but theories and discoveries are moot if you can't distill them in a manner your intended audience (this board) can understand. They could very well be a legitimate autist and don't have any desire to be understood and just want a place to dump their thoughts with no real rhyme or reason.
>>7465133Jesus christ, just go do math if you're so anti-substance. I feel you'd enjoy category theory.
>>7464181Looked through an older thread of yours, something concerns me:>"congenital/psychological laws that determine 'aesthetic pleasure' when a stimulus is experienced">"formalization of aesthetics/mind"It's a respectable goal, but why do you assume these to be feasibly interpretable through reasoning? I could see how aesthetic pleasure could be potentially quantified (in a very non-trivial way) once we have better tools for neuropsychology research, but that doesn't imply that those numerical rules governing aesthetic pleasure can be reduced to linguistic reasoning...If you have some arguments (not necessarily rigorous) to support the idea that the process of art perception can be interpreted in terms of logic without overgeneralizing to the point of near-irrelevance, I would like to hear those.This is not an attack on your ideas, I'm genuinely curious to see where your confidence in your approach stems from - and I'm sure there are interesting reasons involved.
If I understand correctly, you’re suggesting that the "cultivated thickness" of a biform influences its structural behavior, thicker, more defined forms (like a hard-edged circle) tend toward stability and containment, while thinner, more flexible forms (like a diffuse line) enable propagation and increase systemic entropy.This seems to reinforce the idea of the "indifferent biform", a structure that doesn’t inherently favor one mode over another but is instead shaped by the anticipatory margins (the surrounding conditions that determine how the biform interacts with its environment). The idea that 'brotherhood' is predominant in these margins suggests that relational dynamics, rather than intrinsic properties, drive the system’s evolution.Have you considered how this relates to feedback loops within the TC framework? Could the degrees of freedom in a biform correlate with its susceptibility to external perturbations?
>>7467766 Premise: Objective quantification of 'aesthetics' for the purpose of 'scalability' in multi-agent (social) contexts. Structure: The first paragraphs (1) are contextual, go to (2) for a direct answer. Self-question: Would it be a good idea to sacrifice precision/verbosity in favor of a more fluid reading? (1) How can a blind person be told what a color is? Is hard science, driven by constant and strong subjectivities, an impossible chimera? The 'new color' before my eyes 'does not exist' unless it passes through the objectivist and utilitarian filter of society? Let’s be fair: every discipline in its beginnings was based on strong, censurable intuitions, and the modern, arrogant 'whim' of appealing to objectivist consensus as an end in itself only arises once this intuitive magma has solidified. It is very easy for the modern mathematician, seated in his solid ivory tower —built upon the cries of madmen, by the way—to criticize what is fluid and uncertain. "Clay criticizes fire, sand, and water."But both extremes are important. TC is fluid for now, and that is why it is easily censurable unless it crystallizes and proves its usefulness. Regarding the central premise: the essential factor that differentiates TC from other similar disciplines—such as geometry—is, in fact, aesthetics. Or the human bias of preferring/'rewarding' certain patterns over others. Without aesthetics, there would be no need for further study, as every output would be valid. Aesthetics validates or disapproves (pricrel). (Here, I had written a spontaneous ontological idea, but I deleted it for straying from the topic.) [CONTINUES BELOW]
>>7469014(1.5) Regarding quantification to achieve standards and a common language, TC assumes that the primordial 'aesthetic palate' is practically the same among individuals, and the subsequent refinement (the so-called 'personal taste') is organically built through the 'biformidal nature' of the experienced stimulus. This nature oscillates between -1 and 1 according to the entropy of the stimulus and, therefore, its appeal to the cerebral hemisphere (congenital, cultural). "The taste oscillates between 'instinct' and 'will'."(2) To communicate subjectivity (the basis of any new discipline), it is necessary to develop a new discipline: the transmutation of the subjective into the objective without loss of information (SUBOBJ), another of the many dependent branches of TC. Unless humanity surgically unites or we develop a global telekinesis network, the transmission of subjectivities will be limited to an inefficient approximation via objectivities. —Or maybe not; future developments in the SUBOBJ field will clarify this—. Clarifying the premature and inefficient SUBOBJ context in which we operate, we can develop action in our topic at hand: TC and Aesthetics. This is where the concept of instinctive and visceral 'dichotomous truisms' (DICTRU) comes into play: between 'torture' and 'orgasm', is there a binary consensus regarding 'pain'?With recursive DICTRU, we can approach an increasingly consensus, at least initially among people with similar hemispheric preponderance.With this somewhat vague-margin consensus, we can construct relatively rigid axioms.
>>7469014So you're just handwaving it by saying it's all made up, but it might not be in the future? What kind of reasoning is that? You're building a supposedly objective system on foundations that have no objective qualities. What you're doing is no different than PC.
>>7464181This is actually interesting and the fucking retards on this board can’t handle it
>>7469014>every discipline in its beginnings was based on strong, censurable intuitions...Can agree with that, bold and vaguely-substantiated ideas are often needed for development of thinking. I'm not going to criticize your ideas just due to their novelty and unfamiliarity.>both extremes are importantIt's a bit unclear which extremes are you referring to here. Rigid vs. fluid thinking? Or I'm misinterpreting?>the essential factor ... is, in fact, aestheticsThat much is clear - you're reasoning about the mechanisms and nature of perceived appeal.>Aesthetics validates or disapprovesThat's a very binary description. Do you intend that?>>7469015>TC assumes that the primordial 'aesthetic palate' is practically the same among individuals...You make a strong and debatable assumption here, which I'm willing to accept for the sake of understanding - but if you have some additional insight to support this way of thinking, I'd appreciate you sharing it.>...through the 'biformidal nature' of the experienced stimulusI feel you've gotten very comfortable with the term, but to me the meaning of "biformidal" is largely unclear. Just "having two forms" is too vague to establish any helpful context for understanding what you say later, do you mean something more specific than that? Please clarify.>The taste oscillates between 'instinct' and 'will'When you say "oscillates", do you mean that the form of appeal (congenital vs cultural) varies for each viewer across different stimuli? Or do you mean literal temporal oscillation during the perception of a given stimulus? I guess the word "oscillate" implies the latter, but I find it difficult to understand in such case. As I see it, when I perceive a stimulus I experience the associated sense of aesthetics as a superposition of the congenital and the cultural forms (to varying degrees) at once, not as an oscillation. Unless it's sound/music, as those stimuli inherently have a temporal aspect to them. Please clarify.
>>7469663Continuing my response.>transmutation of the subjective into the objective without loss of information (SUBOBJ)>...the transmission of subjectivities will be limited to an inefficient approximation via objectivitiesI get that you're making a point that SUBOBJ is not well-developed and would be greatly helpful, but I have to ask - how are you trying to approach its development in the first place? We don't have comprehensive neural interfaces or any neuropsychological framework for interpreting neural activity, which to me feel like a strict requirement for any remotely insightful research on "SUBOBJ".>instinctive and visceral 'dichotomous truisms' (DICTRU) comes into play: between 'torture' and 'orgasm', is there a binary consensus regarding 'pain'?So, if I understand you here - you're finding binary classification statements (I think "dichotomy" is inappropriate here) which have wide agreement regarding them, and basing your theory on those. First of all, they have to pertain to the perception of aesthetics, I assume? In such case, why do you bring up "pain"? Can you provide a more relevant example? But also, why take such an overly limited approach to gathering insight? A single "dichotomous truism" carries only so much information, you'd need an overwhelming quantity of them to draw conclusions.
>>7469029The 'antagonistic' approaches are more interconnected than I initially thought. This discipline, instead of TC, should probably be called TCP? Of course, later on, we can develop specialized studies on the extremes <P and C>It's like the chicken-and-egg dilemma: can an axiomatic system be created without relying on phenomenological roots?
>>7464219Long winded way of saying that sex pests like OP are the most boring mediocre pedants to ever put pencil to paper (which they do RARELY) and they cope with they mediocrity and unpopularity by inventing a super secret theory of everything that they're the center of as the only prophet who can bring this dry ass "information" (schizo babble) to the unwashed masses. Everyone point and laugh and get your licks in, trust me, OP 100% deserves it.
>>7469663>>7469666> Both extremes are important>It's a bit unclear which extremes are you referring to...Instinctive and logical approaches, within the framework we discuss here: <TC and PC>. > Aesthetics validates or disapproves > That's a very binary description. Do you intend that? Yes. > Biform Just imagine a point in a 2D matrix that propagates and closes according to the nature of the information in its current area and neighborhood. It is 'bi' because it is constructed using both brain hemispheres, which alternate (oscillate) depending on the complexity/entropy of the stimulus being interpreted. The nature/pattern and relationship of these closed biforms determine aesthetics. A proper analogy is music, where spatial propagation is replaced by chronological propagation. > The taste oscillates between 'instinct' and 'will' > When you say "oscillates"... 'Personal taste' is the historical average of the previously described oscillations. > I get that you're making a point that SUBOBJ is not well-developed This isn't that important; I only mention it to highlight the inefficiency of the current language in conveying idea-sensations that haven't been canonized by society and applications. > DICTRU> So, if I understand you here – you're finding binary classification statement... Sometimes, non-canonized concepts are better expressed through 'drawings' (congenital forms): A DICTRU is: HOT <----|---->COLD And DICTRU application in TCP is – assuming exogenous but similar dichotomies – <---------|---------> <-------|------> <----|---> <--|-> <> { <>, <>, <> } : axioms PC -> ~TC.
cringe tryharder
>>7470084>>7470089>>7470090I pity you; your insolence keeps you from appreciating such delightful and refined concepts... Picrel: ontological humor.
>>7470518>>7464219>By the way, I don’t like unnecessary conflict. If you’re not interested in this iconoclastic approach, I can understand that. But there’s no need to be sarcastic or ill-intentioned. After all, my autistic intentions are altruistic.I don't like hypocrites even if their ideas are interesting.
>>7470085>Instinctive and logical approaches, within the framework we discuss here: <TC and PC>Ah, alright. Got it>Just imagine a point in a 2D matrix that propagates and closes according to the nature of the information in its current area and neighborhoodSo, effectively, a biform is a perceptional shape-like construct, which is defined not strictly by its contour, but by the nature of the surrounding information/entropy. Do I understand correctly?>A proper analogy is music, where spatial propagation is replaced by chronological propagationMakes sense. Just for better communication though, could you elaborate what you'd consider a biform in musical context? It's not the main topic of discussion, but that'd help clarify the higher-level meaning of biforms.>'Personal taste' is the historical average of the previously described oscillations.Firstly, isn't "personal taste" referring to the strictly cultural (non-congenital) aspect of aesthetical perception? Also you haven't addressed my main previous question - what are the scope and scale of oscillations you're referring to? Observer-bound or stimulus-bound? Temporal or spatial?>This isn't that important; I only mention it to highlight the inefficiency of the current language...Fair enough. You've made a clear point with it.>HOT <----|---->COLD ... <> ... { <>, <>, <> } : axioms PC -> ~TC.Frankly, not a very clear expression of your ideas, but I'll give a shot at interpretation out of respect: You're constructing a set of dichotomies which are not merely disjunctive, but also fully complementary (within their scope of applicability). To these you fit the more complex ideas that form TC. If I missed something, please elaborate in text form... Once again though I'd like to ask you - what leads you to such a strong emphasis on binary nature of observations?
>>7470563>>7464181Also, unrelatedly, what's the role of colors in TC framework? Your ideas so far pertain to morphological, textural and compositional aspects of art, but I don't think you've brought up any color-related concepts, or the interaction of color with existing concepts. Would be nice to hear your thoughts on it.
>>7464181>blurry line blurry>sharp circle sharp>put an equals sign between them>wow i am so profound!kys
the average leftist """"philosophy""""" KEKno wonder they all self-suicide by the millions every few decades
>>7470669You have one extra right double-quote, which invalidates your whole statement. Good luck next time.
>>7464181hey, just dropping in to say that while you were click clacking away to type some verbose drivel, that i've uh been fucking your mom
>>7464211Is that your artwork? If so, post more. It's hella cool
The only TC I know are TeleCrystals, I hope you saved enough to buy the Codespeak manual we needed
