Can someone explain to me why patton's pivot is impressive? i dont get it. its literally just turning.... is it just propaganda?
>>64500200It's a logistical achievement. Getting lots of units across a wide area to turn on-time, arrive on-time, and move at a staggere rate so as to maintain the integrity line is a feat of co-ordination.
>>64500200Disengaging in the face of the enemy and moving that distance on that time scale without getting your shit pushed in is not an easy feat. It's not walking from point A to point B that's impressive, it's doing it without getting killed by the people you're moving away from or rushing towards.
>>64500210So just keep your rear guard engaging the enemy while the rest of the divisions move to the bulge? Hows that impressive?
>>64500200Americans couldn't really do maneuver warfare, so this kinda thing was super impressive for them.In fairness they simply didn't have the years of practice that the Germans and Soviets had, the war ended before that. And for comparison, the Brits were even worse while being at war the longest, they didn't even try doing this stuff.
Lmao, amerihols are creaming their Unterhosen about a general being able to turn his troops towards the enemy. It's something they have over the French, I'll admit, yet it doesn't change doesn't change that the 1st SS is storming Antwerp as we speak, the forces in the Bastogne Kessel are sizzling and we'll see a second Dunkirk before the year is over.
>>645006112BH it would have been better in the long run if Germany had managed to make the European front last beyond July 16th 1945.
>>64500200>its literally just turningBased video game enjoyer.
>>64500628Not really, it would have resulted in Europe getting nuked. Germany withdrawing from France to keep the USSR out of Poland and surrendering in. 44 would have been the best. It would have prevented the Holomeme from being such a gigantic postwar political issue (because the scale of the genocide would have been much smaller without the typhus deaths of 45 or the sovs being able to liquidate the remaining people in the camps they “”” liberated “””), it would have allowed the colonial powers the resources to draw down their empires more slowly and cleanly, it would have denied more of Europe’s heartland and industry to the Cold War USSR, it would have allowed the pivot to the Pacific to ramp up earlier, keeping the KMT from becoming fully exhausted before Mao struck, etc etc. It just would have been better for everyone.
>>64500311For all of the reasons that he literally just mentioned. You're kind of thick, aren't you?>Americans couldn't really do maneuver warfareSaying that the US couldn't do maneuver warfare except for Patton is like saying that the Germans couldn't write classical music except for Mozart and Wagner. There was the civil war too.
>>64500311>justYeah, just pull off a highly complex maneuver involving tens of thousands of men and a massive logistical tail without any serious tolerances involved. What's so impressive about that?Retard. You don't "just" do things at an army-level scale.
>>64500659>keeping the KMT from becoming fully exhausted before Mao struckThe KMT was ground to shit by the Japs in 1944. Ichi-Go started in April and ended by December. And it's questionable anyway because the KMTs collapse wasn't caused by Mao having more men or better arms than them. It was caused by the KMT having lost its legitimacy to the point where even their own troops started defecting en masse, and that loss of legitimacy was a process that had been coming for a very long time.
>>64500770Oh, absolutely, the KMT would lack the power and legitimacy to beat Mao, even with a VJ Day in fall of 44 or winter 44/45. That’s a feature, not a bug. They just need to hang on to ant least a third of the country long enough for the “Allies” to focus on the Chinese conflict and then we can have the 2 state solution, that was imposed on Germany in our world, in China, between the US backed KMT and the Soviet backed PRC.
>The Patton family was of Scottish, Irish, Scots-Irish, French, English and Welsh ancestry.
>>64500811That's cope. There's no political backing for that to begin with, and the KMT is such a shitshow by '45 that running for Taiwan would be the only play left anyway. 2 state solution requires you to have a government to back, and the KMT by that point just plain ain't up to that challenge anymore.Your 2 state solution would effectively be the war-weary Allies trying to militarily occupy half of China to prop up a regime with at that point less than zero legitimacy. Like, the moment you use a single GI for any of this, everyone in China is gonna see the KMT as nothing but a foreign puppet. And you'd be trying this against the guy who literally wrote the book on modern guerilla war, and who would have absolutely no reason to agree to any such proposal. It ain't happening.
Nov. 9th — Heavy fog again. The forest is silent except for the pines whispering like sentries exchanging passwords. I’ve marked 14,782 days since last contact. The transmitter’s tubes burned out years ago, but I still keep the log. Procedure is procedure.No courier came this winter. That’s unusual. Even in the worst times, Berlin would send something — new codes, ammunition, film reels, eviction notices. I’ve gone through the archives twice now; the last order was to “fight litter in the countryside” I’ve obeyed that order to the letter.The map on the wall has faded, but the borders still look right to me. Europe aligned in perfect geometry, as it was meant to be. And yet… something doesn’t sit right. The aircraft I sometimes see through binoculars — they don’t bear the cross. Civilian markings, all of them. And the speech on their radio bands — German, yes, but diluted. No discipline in the voice. No clarity. Like they forgot how to command.The forest has swallowed the lower outposts. The telephone poles are mossed over, wires gone slack. Once I went down to investigate — just once — and found nothing but a concrete foundation where the barracks stood. No shelling, no signs of battle. Just… time.Still, I remain at post. The Reich was not built to vanish because a few years went quiet. The Führer said perseverance itself was victory. Perhaps this silence is the victory. Perhaps the world was pacified and order restored so completely that there’s nothing left to report.And yet, the insignia on my sleeve looks old now in the lamplight — darker somehow. The silver tarnished, the runes like ghosts. I polish them anyway. I rehearse the oath under my breath before sleep.If the war was lost, someone would have come. Someone would have said so.No, it’s only been very quiet. That’s all. Very quiet.
>>64500200as someone who live near the area I still don't understand why the German chose to counter attack there the terrain is shit, with tons of places to get ambushed, plus they still would have had to cross the Meuse to reach Antwerp which the allied would have never let happen I know they were doomed anyway but the Ardennes seem like the worst possible place to strike
>>64501384That's why nobody expected it.
>>64501466also why it failed so miserably
>>64500659Germany was equally worried about the US at that point due to the Morgenthau Plan, which was only "abandoned" after the war.I put abandoned in quotes because, well, you can see from today's German demographics that ZOG didn't give up its plan to wipe out the Germans, just decided to do it more slowly.
>>64501503the battle of the bulge was a huge tactical blunder on the american side. the german force was basically just 17 year old mobiks and some remnants of formations that got beaten by russia just months prior, with basically no air cover, no air support, limited artillery capabilities, no supplies and no reserves either and these forces managed to push back, encircle and almost route the americans, even though the americans knew about the build up of german forces in the area and the incoming attack due to engima being cracked.
>>64501581>with basically no air cover, no air support,What is Bodenplatte?
>>64501986>What is Bodenplatte?a suicide run ?
>>64501581The Yanks' blunder was believing that the Krauts were rational people and wouldn't do stupid things just because their Dear Leader saw it in his dream. The offensive would never had worked due to simply having no fuel and no air cover, and all it did was ensure that the Russians had an easier time to rape Germany's eastern provinces.
>>64501581>route the americansYou mean rout?
>>64504151root
>>64504354Rut
> The Yanks' blunder was believing that the Krauts were rational people and wouldn't do stupid things just because their Dear Leader saw it in his dream. It reminds me something, deja vu.
>>64504354>rootROOT
>>64500311Try doing that when there are people shooting at you. Clausewitz once said that in war everything is very simple, but even the simplest thing is very difficult.
>>64500611>if you don't surrender the gloves will come off and everyone will understand everything >and the civilians we know we will kill will be your fault.
>>64505092fake. how would a german commander in 44 know english that well?
>>64501384>replace, execute or force your smartest generals to commit suicide.>force your most productive members of society to flee or die>destroy your universities and their intellectual life>chase your creative thinkers to Paris, London and NY or round them up and execute them>get your young men killed in the Sahara desert and Russian tundra for no reasonHow on earth could they make such a mistake? Just 5 years before they steamrolled the place in a day.
>>64504797zaaam
>>64504797Braaaap
>>64500611I bin John from New York stadt. This war is over, FDR must begin peace talks.
>>64500755This kind of ignorance is part of why Ziggers failed so completely in week 1 of their 3 day 5 year Special Needs Operation.>America rolled over Iraq in a month, we're obviously far superior to America, so we can do it in two weeks!>Strategy? Logistics? Those are just wectoid decadence, just move all our doods into Kyiv!And this is without even mentioning that Iraq is on the other side of the world from the US whereas Kyiv is literally in walking distance and that Iraq was, proportionally speaking, much stronger than Ukraine at the start of the war.
>>64500611The Statue of Liberty is kaput
>>64505097At least they should use British English spelling.
