>amerilards can't legally own armor piercing rounds that can be chambered in handguns
sure we can. manufacturers cant sell it directly to us, but you can buy ex-LE SS190 occasionally, and if you bought boxes of the shit before its sale was restricted then that's yours to do what you want with. also in principle, you could make your own and it would be fine.
>>64553572Can you?
>>64553602How do you make them? I'm assuming the round is hard to find
>ackshually poastingarmor piercing handgun ammunition is not illegal, just certain metals by percentage for bullets. if you can make an armor piercing bullet out of something besides tungsten, steel, or depleted uranium, you can buy and sell it. such things exist.
>>64553615drill a hole in a soft point and put something hard in it, basically. hard metals are obvious, but supposedly ceramics work too.
>>64553602>sure you can, but you had to buy it before it was illegal to sell
>>64553632wouldn't ceramics be easy to shatter tho?
>>64553685even when they do they still penetrate better than soft lead, plus anything hard and pointy is super effective against woven soft armor so there's a good chance it will slip through without shattering at all.in regards to OP, pic related is incredibly effective against soft armor and is sold on the shelves and can be ordered to you by mail because it's a solid copper projective, and it's even better than most "AP" rounds because it's designed to tumble in tissue, resulting in decent terminal performance as well.
>>64553625>dood you can use literally anything except stuff that can actually pierce armor
>>64553680yes. OPs contention was that we cant own AP ammo, but we can. acquisition can pose a problem, but one we possess it nobody can do shit.
>>64553696oh got it thx, sucks to be in a no funs cunt to be perfectly honest. otherwise I would try it out
>Europoprs can't own rounds that can be chambered in handguns
KEKEK
>>64553572If I have to use my pistol in a situation in which I am facing armed thugs, then I fucked up with my ARs and AKs
>>64553625Dagny Dagger has been vaporware for more than six years. It's over.
>>64553572That's flat out false. Not illegal to own, you can buy 5.7 black tip on fucking Gun Broker.Manufacturers simply won't sell it to civilians. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, you can't make it, or you can't own it. And by "you" I mean "me" because YOU can't own guns in India, Rajeesh.
>>64553572Since when? There are numerous companies who sell AP pistol ammo to civilians, it's only restricted by metal content. Even then, those manufacturers can sell it to dealers, who then can sell it to civilians. There's nothing illegal about owning or purchasing it, it's just often very expensive because they're niche products and cost a lot to manufacture.
>>64553697Natural uranium has exactly the same physical properties as depleted uranium and it's explicitly not listed among the banned materials.
>>64555355Pretty much, cannot ≠ will not. I doubt this stinky Jeet (or maybe smug Canadian/Eurofag, read: Jeet) can own handguns anyways. I don't want to hear shit from any Europeon who isn't from Switzerland or the Czech Republic.
>>64553685"Tungsten" armor penetrators are actually made of tungsten carbide, a ceramic.
>>64553572>Septum piercingCute
>>64553602>sure we can we just can't obtain them
>>64553572You can and its legal you just arnt looking hard enough. Id spend my money on rifle rounds instead personally
>>64555040They've been selling cores for years, retard.
>>64553572Shame this Polish fuckmeat also has tattoos.
>>64553632Tungsten TiG electrodes work nicely for smaller handguns and rifles.
>The virgin armor piercing pistol ammo>The chad crotch/thigh mag dump with hollowpoints
>>64553572Magnum revolvers.
>>64555822>Final development of the proper Dagny Dagger variant is on hold, disfavored due to temporary unavailability and cost inflation of the special cobalt core alloy owing in-turn to pervasive supply chain disruption and the embargo on Russian materials. However, the economy variants are finished and will be commercially available though Atlas Arms Manufacturing in a few months. ???
>>64555910stopped by soft armor
>>645535725.7 copper solids penetrate most 3a vests.FS TUI copper solids penetrate most 3a vests out of 9mm pistols.Civil Defense +p can sometimes penetrate 3a even out of slow and fat 45acp.More obscure rounds like 9x25 dillon and 7.5 fk penetrate 3a with standard ammunition.The higher power end of revolver cartridges like 454 casul, 460 SW, and 500 SW can usually penetrate 3a with standard loads and easily with copper solids.
>>64553697I don't believe there is a metal on the earth that can stand up to the forces of being fired but not penetrate 3a at mach 2 or less.>But it has to penetrate level 3 steel to be real ap! No one wears level 3>But it has to penetrate level 4 to be real AP No pistol round has defeated level four armor, AP or otherwise.
This is why y'all should get plates
>>64555040It's not some lost magic spell it's a spike in a delrin hull. Any metal would work.
>>64555988Nothing ever happens. Be the change and make the dagger a reality where those two dudes could not.
>>64555943460, 454, and 500 will penetrate 3a kevlar with an appropriate commercially available projectile and loading.
>>64555978>No one wears level 3wat. More civilians bought permutations of III than just about any other rating.
>>645559993a is not a "permutation of 3" despite the name and it makes up like 99% of the armor market that isn't military.
>>64555985you've never worn yours outside of the house.
>>64555995ya cool dude name ONE shooting thats envolved any of those calibers.
>>64555161>>64555147If you want flags, go to /pol/.
>>64556005Only with law enforcement and security guards. Rifle armor is more common with civilians.
>>64556005reading comp fail go back to mrs johnson in third grade and tell her u failed>>64556006>he cannot accept that plates are meta lolololol
>>64553572>yuropoors>guns in generalpic uno
>>64556020fag
>>64553572Why not? What fat retard politician's fault is it?
>>64556041>>64556054>Level 3 is the only thing it's reasonable to prepare for! Everything else is worthless because everyone has level three!>Military doesn't count>Police don't count >Security doesn't count >Helmets don't count>Also ignore that iia and iiia were the only thing people bought for like forty yearsLmao no one rolls around in steel plates. They were a fad for a couple years and the fad is over. Level IV and 3a might as well be the only types of armor that exist.
>>64556211>he doesn't know Level III PE or ceramics exist>Lmao no one rolls around in steel plates. Reddit and here do not reflect reality. Steel plates are still immensely popular with the misinformed.>Level IV and 3a might as well be the only types of armor that exist.Dunning-krugers are leaning towards noob trap "III++" plates like the Highcom 3S9M and RMA XRT like you wouldn't believe on plebbit.
>>64553572>"lol" said the scorpion, "lmao"
>>64556233>still gets stopped by platesaww man
>>64553572And you can’t own guns period
>>64553572Would.
>>64553572I would love to throatfuck this fatherless woman.
Small arms and all associated equipment like body armor are obsolete in military engagements. By 2040 drones will receive real-time 3D maps of building interiors via cell tower scanning, and deliver precision headshots directly to the brain stem, through multiple walls.
>>64556732We're gonna jam that shit fr frAlso if shit gets that bad people are gonna take angle grinders to cell towers using viet cong tunnels
>>64553572You can make them though >meanwhile in Eurostar you can’t even own guns
>>64553632Basically this. It’s easier if you use a hollow point for pistols and something with a polymer tip that you pull out with rifles. It gives you a pilot hole essentially. Also because drilling lead is annoying because how soft it is and easy to heat up. Like the other anon said, tungsten rods work well and are not too hard to get.
>>64556755kek
>>64556755>we>peopleNo such thing anymore, unless you live off grid on a commune.
>>64556782Get the shovels randy we're gonna take a K12 to that Verizon steel dick in the sky
>>64556803>communeBased and survivorpilled
>>64553572Look man, I realize you're probably still riding high from yesterday's shitshow of a Cowboys-Eagles game and spamming tranny porn for hours, but please don't post these awful greentext laughing whore threads.
>>64556732And you and everyone who perused this thread has already been marked for deletion by skynet mk.I
>>64553625>if you can make an armor piercing bullet out of something besides tungstenhttps://www.basspro.com/p/bass-pro-shops-tungsten-nail-weightsWhy not tungsten?
>>64556648>>64556705What kind of a hog fuck pierces her septum and fwp?
>>64556883Come get some, robo chick.
>>64553572oh no!anyway
>>64553572Afaik>can be chambered in handgunsis an absolutely meaningless statement under US law. Our definition of what is and what isn't a handgun has nothing to do with the ammunition it's chambered for.
>>64555910Don’t do any better then calibers mostly chambered in semi autos. 9mm can beat IIIA with Lehigh XDs or Fort Scott TUI. Same with .357 Sig and 10mm. It’s actually harder for .357 mag because .357 uses heavier bullets in factory ammo (doesn’t matter if you reload). You still need a solid copper round in .44 Mag or up to beat IIIA.Even a .500 S&W won’t do shit to rifle plates.
>>64555811>reading comprehension, how does it work
>>64555961Don’t forget the Lehigh xtreme defenders. I carry the 65gr and even from a 3” hellcat barrel I can punch through IIIA and a 2x4 behind it.
>>64557089This is why the ATF considers 5.45x39 to be a handgun cartridge and will shoot your dog if you try to import cheap, unhardened steel core ammo.
>>64553697>this queerlord can't into tantalumskill issue
>>64556244Yeah. They’re made to stop rifles.
>>64556732How are cell towers scanning through walls and how are bullets shooting through them without being stopped or deflected?
>>64557106You didn’t have the vest laying on the 2x4 did you? That wouldn’t replicate vest usage in a real world scenario. Kevlar needs to deform around the bullet to catch it, by backing it with something rigid you’re giving the bullet a huge edge.
>>64556883As much as I think Roko's Basilisk is retarded, people are even more retarded and might actually create one on purpose and the worst part will be that it'd still be a glorified chatbot that's responsible for killing people because they didn't devote themselves to AI development.
>>64553572Whose armor are you intending to pierce? Come on, home invaders and muggers aren't known for wearing kevlar.
>>64553572In contrast, hollow point ammunition for handguns is outright illegal or heavily regulated in yurop, and I think only Czechia allows it for self-defense
>>64553572I love that look.She looks like she's just 5 seconds away from being throatfucked out of love for her boyfriend.
>>64555397Fucking kek. Is this a viable workaround? “No, Mr. ATF, this is not depleted uranium. This is in fact 5 grams of Uranium-235.”
>>64553572>amerilards can't legally ownIncorrect
>>64557459Leaning against it. There’s plenty of videos of it being backed by water jugs and XDs going through. I’m not getting clay to test when it doesn’t change the outcome.
>>64558566You're right, XDs will pen a variety of IIIA. Not all, but a lot. It will likely handle basic aramid and cheap PE a lot better than the overbuilt "IIIA+" panels some are now using. Truth be told soft armor is actually very easy to defeat. You need good ceramic III for comprehensive protection. If anyone wants a pointer, tungsten core 9x19mm called DM91 will pen Level III poly plates. I see no reason why that couldn't be replicated. Level III steel can also be done but you need very exotic, difficult to "replicate" 9x19mm AP nobody can easily acquire. Libra Snail should be up for it.
>>64557892>ATF officer with a scale trying desperately to determine if your rounds are < 0.5% heavier than normal uranium rounds. >Jokes on them, you're using regular uranium and just keep it in a lead lined jerry can.
>>64553572Uh, yes. We can.
>>64557892>>64558631>ATF agent: Is that 9mm bullet made out of depleted uranium?>You an honest, hard-working, god-fearing /k/ommando: No officer, it's weapons-grade.>ATF agent: Alright then, just don't let the DoE find out, you little scamp.>ATF agent shoots your dog on his way out
>>64557786Can't speak for other countries but you can buy HP in Poland no problem. Anything with the core harder than alloyed lead is not allowed, though, so no AP.
>>64553632>drill3D print or injection mold plastic sabot. Insert TiG tip. Viola! SLAP round.
Mods, do your fucking jobs.
>>64558985Uh, no you cant
>>64560817Fuck off, retard.
>>64555978>No pistol round has defeated level four armor, AP or otherwise.No one has been trying tbqh. I bet you could do a sabot dart from a .500s&w magnum propelled from a carbine that would do it.
>>64560852Make me, faggot
>>64553572Yes we can. It is explicitly not illegal to own. It's also hilarious that the restriction is entirely for pistol rounds, if someone really wanted to sell solid tungsten .50 BMG there's nothing stopping them.
>>64560806Why don’t more people print sabots? Seems like it would be fun to mess around with.
>>64560942because why would they? It's a lot of difficulty to...what? Shoot holes in your AR500 targets?
>>64558631Natural uranium has practically no radioactivity, and depletion only reduces it by half. There's no additional risk to using natural uranium penetrators. As an added bonus, depleted and enriched uranium are both regulated by the NRC, but natural uranium is unregulated as well as not being on the list of armor-penetrating materials.
>>64560946Same reason why people handload. It’s something there to experiment with.
>>64560895Doesn’t even have to be a 500SW. Just make the core dense enough and thin enough so the energy is concentrated into the smallest possible area. You could probably defeat level 4 armor with a 10mm or something.
>>64560895Piercing and brute force aren’t quite the same thing…. 500 s/w might not break through.. but it may bull the vest fabric an inch or so into your chest cavity…
>>64560957To be fair, a thin lead lining probably isn't going to do much for something seriously radioactive. >>64560609>Dog has become immune to bullets due to federal agents shooting it so often.
>>64556732> wears a cardboard box (proven to defeat computer vision)> wears picrel> bombs your electrical substations> dumps wet-setting acrylic/caulk into your server farm's water intake > slips 3 TB of polluted training data into your webscrapers> shoots your techbro CEO with a silenced 9mm> thermites your cell towersCheckmate AItards
>>64560942It’s hard to get them to be accurate and you can’t shoot them with muzzle devices, even muzzle brakes. I do have some for 9mm that I keep meaning to try.
>>64553572>OP doesn't post his country of origin because the laws are even worse where he livesopinion discarded
>>64563810It's always the case anon.
>>64555355>And by "you" I mean "me" because YOU can't own guns in India, Rajeesh.>MfwFuck these nogunz faggot and their retardation
>>64553680>>64553697>>64555811Cope and seethe, noguns turdie faggot.
>>64560942>Why don’t more people print sabots? Seems like it would be fun to mess around with.Sectional density and twist rates. Barrels are designed to accurately stabilize a projectile of a known dimension and mass. Load something outside the parameters it was designed for and weird shit can happen. Like your super hot Ap projo taking random 90 degree turns and zipping off into the stratosphere
>>64561213Only faggots end posts with ellipses and no, 500 SW isn't doing dick to stop someone in a level 4 plate. BFD has never been a serious way to produce casualties, ever.
>>64555961>>64553572Nowadays, most vest only protect the upper half of the torso. So just aim lower center of mass instead of upper center of mass. Aim for the hips and upper legs basically.
>>64564750>Only faggots end posts with ellipsesLiterally retarded and more...
>>64566572Just aim for the cock. They will bleed out in seconds with humiliation on their mind.
>>64557118> This is why the ATF considers 5.45x39 to be a handgun cartridge and will shoot your dog if you try to import cheap, unhardened steel core ammo.I guess 308 is a handgun caliber because of pic related and g3 and ar pistol
>>64566572>>64566587>doesn't understand there are rifle rated groin plates...
>>64566572Soldiers are trained to aim for the face.
>>64566769>>doesn't understand there are rifle rated groin plates...And how often are soldiers and SWAT teams, or regulars larping as SWAT, seen NOT wearing them?
>>64560957so its safe to inhale?
>>6456663750 BMG is a handgun cartridge
>>64566856Nitro express is a handgun cartridge
>>64566781Focus on the future, Padawan. Do not prepare for yesterday's battle.
>>64553602>you could make your own and it would be fine.Yeah, nah. Not legally. >To protect the lives and safety of law enforcement officers from the threat posed by ammunition capable of penetrating a protective vest when fired from a handgun, the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, prohibits the import, manufacture, and distribution of "armor piercing ammunition" as defined by the statute.https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/general-notice/armor-piercing-ammunitionPlease to not be spreading misinformation, saar.
>>64553572A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infri-ACK
>>64566788that actually makes me wonder how much information we have about the dangers of Uranium as a heavy metal separate from the dangers posed by the radioactivity.on the one hand, heavy metal poisoning is very bad, on the other, uranium is very hard and most of the heavy metals that poison people are very soft.
>>64566856I want one of these so fucking bad it’s stupid…
>>64564750Quick put on your level 4 plate and let’s see how you feel after tanking a 600 gn 1450 fps projectile to the center of it. Life exists off of paper anon…
>>64566769>rifle rated groin platesTry jogging in one. Besides, hobody wears those.
>>64567113>omg more ellipses!
>>64567136… I’ll never understand how improper punctuation can be such a trigger for some people. If you need all the things you read to be perfectly punctuated in able to absorb the content they’re trying to convey then you lack critical thinking skills.
>>64567127Actually very easy if mounted high enough. Ukrainians wear 8x10 Hesco plates using Chinese "Sabado" groin carriers. Large enough to cover abdominal and some groin. Dmgear manufactures a full 10x12 (pic rel XL) if you feel like it. I run two affixed to a IIIA Jinwudun kilt, which pads things out and keeps weight distributed on my hips. L210s are perfect for this role.>>64567120Statistically nobody has died from backface deformation except for a cop that got hit by a .45-70 against Level IIA soft armor. Estimated BFD was well over 150mm. Level IV plates by definition stop a 165gr steel-core .30-06 going at 2,910ft/s with less than 44mm. Mine are good up to 3,500ft/s. If you have a problem with BFD, pad the plate out with a trauma pad, soft armor, or a CAP. There are solutions to cheesy shit like this and they're cheap. You cannot expect to incapacitate someone through AP rifle armor with a pistol. Either brute force with a .50 cal, aim around the plate, or pierce it with a penetrator better or faster than what the plate can handle. Hint. .30-06 M2AP is cheap and if reloaded into a .300WM going about 3,300ft/s it will pierce XSAPIs.
>>64567433Now statistically, do you think that’s because BFD is NBD? Or is this perhaps a better indicator that we don’t have much sample size for violent crime committed with large caliber rounds?
>>64567433Right around 1:20https://youtu.be/en7ufLoC7tw?si=Hl4t11RnQW8NTikYSure it doesn’t penetrate, but if you think tanking that impact is no big deal then your delusional. Worth adding freedom munitions 500 mag is about the cheapest and weakest 500 mag ammo your gonna find…
>>64567633>Now statistically, do you think that’s because BFD is NBD?It's not a black and white "if it's over 44mm, you're in trouble, if it's under you're totally fine" number like how some people paint it. The NIJ BFD requirement was developed by shooting goats wearing soft armor and observing no lethal injuries. Emphasis on lethal injuries. It is relatively high compared to most of the world. European standards such as HOSDB, VPAM, and German TR Schutzwesten settle on a 25mm limit. Russian GOST is 17mm.Less BFD is better. For example, see how comical the reaction to getting shot by a .308 is in the below video. This is a mid-1980s steel "Hardcorps" vest made by Second Chance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNOCOAXefDsShort conclusion is that you want lower BFD to minimize injuries. Lower the better.>Or is this perhaps a better indicator that we don’t have much sample size for violent crime committed with large caliber rounds?There are few cases where Level IV plates worn by law enforcement or civilians are actually put to the test. There are videos here and there of US military ESAPIs (slightly to significantly better than base Level IV depending on revision) getting shot and the wearer running off no problem. Pic rel is a Ukrainian fighter who got shot by 7.62x54R 7N1 to his Hesco Level IV. Significant bruise but not debilitating. Plate did its job. However, keep in mind 7N1 is significantly weaker than .30-06 M2AP and it stands to reason that if the plate were actually put against the round it's rated for the behind armor blunt trauma would be a little more stiff.>short conclusionLess BFD the better, per usual. Look into trauma pads or climatic amortization panels (these are heavy duty trauma pads that attach to the rear of the platebag) to get those numbers down. $26 inflatable AA shield CAPs reduce BFD numbers by 60% with IIIA soft armor.
>>64567657You're using a IIIA soft armor panel expressly only rated for .44 Magnum when I'm talking about Level IV plates rated for steel-core .30-06 M2AP. Apples and oranges my friend. To put the difference in strength into perspective, a Level IIIA aramid panel is traditionally 35 layers. 5.56 M193 will pierce over 120. M193 is a basic threat handled by any credible Level III ceramic or PE plate, including plates such as the Hesco 3801 that weigh 1.95lb. We're discussing plates that weigh several times that. The weight and non-flexibility of a plate alone plays a role in absorbing energy, not to mention the localized shattering of a ceramic strike face also serves to absorb energy as well. Lastly, many good Level IV plates incorporate built-in trauma pads to reduce behind armor blunt trauma further. It's a losing game. You cannot defeat Level IV plates by "brute-forcing" them with a revolver. You lack the velocity. You lack the penetrator. Even if you could, go buy some trauma pads (not the $25.00 shitdick ones from RMA, Spartan, or AR500) and that'll reduce energy transfer tremendously.>pic rel, what happens when you wear a "CAP" versus when you dont.
>>64553632>>64555860>>64556776this. am i the only one who remembers picrel threads? the fuck happened to them anyway? anons got abducted / lack of interest from tourists because ukraine started back up?
>>64567699The apanon threads? There's been like four apanons, several of them got vanned. Actually manufacturing AP ammunition using tungsten components and discussing it on the clearnet is a surefire way to get the feds up your bunghole.
>>64567707That's bullshit since manufacturing your own ammo isn't illegal, AP rifle ammo isn't illegal, and manufacturing your own AP rifle ammo isn't illegal.
>>64553572No porn on blue boards fagPS: would dick her down by grabbing her hair
>>64567716The illegality was not regarding what they were manufacturing, it was what they were manufacturing the ammo for.
>>64553572Yeah, sure, but whomst tho
Since we're on the topic of BFD. Pic rel is a with/without test of a IIIA soft armor panel and an AA shield inflatable CAP. These are cheap, $26.99 per unit, and reduce BFD by over half with soft armor. Plates will do even better. Plus, they also serve as ventilation for your vest.https://www.ebay.com/itm/226341725135
>>64567669Russia doesn't stand a chance against Ukraine if all their war fighters are this buff.
>>64567724Subtle. You must be a killer.
>>64567781They're on that Azovdrol anabolic shit brudda.>pic rel, US vs Russian armor industries in practice.
>>64564477> Fuck these nogunz faggot and their retardationFine you own these shitty 32 jeet revolvers
>>64567885Gonna reenact the Mummy with a pair of these. bip bap bam King Tut cannot redeem. Gonna get Cleopatra's bobs and vagene so I can cuck Timmy Caesar the benchod. All egyptussy will be ruled by I, Emperor Verizon.
>>64567888Only thing you’re going to reenact is convenience store robbery security footage
>>64567120No one has ever been killed by BFD through a plate, despite many, many thousands of incidents, thus it is not a significant factor in combat. If the injuries it caused were significant or reliable at producing incapacitation, a meaningful percentage of them would kill outright. There is no goldilocks zone where something incapacitates reliably but never kills via blunt force trauma. 500 SW does not do anything volleys of rifle rounds and shotgun slugs do not.
