What is your opinion on the fighting capabilities of multinational armies?What are drawbacks or advantages?It seems that diversity is not the big hinderance it is made out to be.>ex. Austro-Hungarians vs Italians in WW1
Is the common enemy the biggest factor for proper adherence and coordination?
UN peacekeepers, enough said
>>64570991>Austro-Hungarians vs Italians in WW1Yeah but Austro-Hungarians vs. Serbians or the Russians was a disaster. At one point an A-H army literally fought itself when units comprised of different language groups got lost and ran into each other.
>>64570996>>64570991>all these flags>meanwhile in reality only Romanians and Finns contributed anything to the German war effort in the Eastlmao
>>64570991diversity is their strength! :)I heard Nelson mostly won because it was the French radical Commies and the Spanish royalists, both not trusting each other and hoping to let the other get rekt so they could slid in at the end and claim victory.Goyim think in terms of "victory" as defeating enemy, even with some losses. Semites, including Arabs, think "victory" is when you get others to do your fighting for you, then cheat them out of the spoils."Do not go to war as The First, go as The Last so you may return as The First".
>>64570991Honestly the Warsaw Pact had the best layout>standardized weapons meant each neighbor could supply each other>standardized vehicles/airframes/ etc meant streamlined logistics, maintenance, and support>doctrine/ranks/organization was common, so commanders had a sense as to how to use partner forces if the event came>most high-ranking officers knew Russian, so a common command language was able to bridge gaps>still able to express themselves with unique uniforms and unique weapons, but all had a commonality to fall back onIt definitely sucked though because it was the USSR calling all the shots, and the nations of WARPAC had to basically buy everything from the USSR
>>64571023To be fair A-H just had a garbage officer’s corps. By the end of the war the Germans were more frustrated by the stupidity of Austrian officers than by any multinational issues in the ranks.>>64570991Italy was a special case of being extra retarded. Even then the Austrians spent most the war on the defensive and still needed the Germans to help them against Italy. When the central powers finally had a shot of knocking Italy out of the war it mostly because of Austrian sluggishness that the Italian army managed to avoid encirclement.
>>64570991the draw back are obvious comunication, possible tensions and whatnot. the advantage is more manpower and specialization, IE:gurkas, cossaks ,balerian slingers etc etc>It seems that diversity is not the big hinderance it is made out to be.diversity in what? multinational is a late 19th century thing, as nations did not exist before. Mixing nations in a army in an army provides much more varied results then a multi ethnic army.see before the 19th century this worked, the portuguese btfoed the nip with an asortement of peoples, the brits conquered half the globe with peoples form all continents in its military, the romans dominated the med for a milenium and the late republican early empire was ultra diverse, even more if you account for auxiliary.When national identity is born things get more ticky, yes AH btfoed italy, but its army got its self btfoed by everyone else.>>64571027>Romanians and Finns contributed anything to the German war effort in the Eastthere more Italians deployed in the east then in north africa or sicily
>>64571096If anything, NATO should gather all their defense companies in a room>hey guys, we [the generals] have finally agreed upon a universal APC chassis, a standard gun, a standard IFV chassis, etc etc etc>the technical packages are free to you all, but each county is going to just make thisIt always bothered me how NATO talks about fighting together, when each country is going to have their own unique supply lines and mechanic operations. In the event of a large scale, chaotic war, it'd be a total clusterfuck with the only thing that can be shared being ammo and magazines
>>64571116>It always bothered me how NATO talksblame the american military industrial complex .everytimes yuros won competitions they would throw a hissyfit. The FAL, G91s for example
>>64571014>enough saidWell no not really.Are they even an army? They only get to shoot if theyre being shot at and cant intervene otherwise, they cant even fight tutsis that are about to massacre some huthus or whatever they were called.>>64571027Still based
>>64571197I guess not
>>64571198This post is so useless, ehat do you guess not??
>>64570991People tend to focus too much on Austria-Hungary. The multinational nature of Austria-Hungary made things more difficult but the real issue was that it was a shitty country to begin with. The thing with Austria is that it was beginning to show dumpster tier military performances even before the age of nationalism. They simply entered a downwards spiral around the mid 1700s and never recovered. Maria Theresia or Archduke Charles were outliers in getting a somewhat decent performance out of the Austrian military. By the late 19th century the country was a relic on life support.
>>64570991you couldn't have picked a worst example. austro hungary lost exactly because of its long, internecine conflicts between ethnicities, and in ww1, they were responsible for the shitty state of their armies and abysmal morale.
>>64571256In the op i soecifically talk about how they defended against an italian firce triple their size for the entire war and consistently traded 1:3 against them
>>64570991From 1806 on half the French midget's army was made up of Germans, Poles and Italians. He still kept dunking on everyone who tried to mess with him until 1813. Shit, the Italians kept fighting even after the French themselves gave up. Basically if your country and leaders aren't shit you can make anything work.
>>64570991>>64571014The Seven Nations Alliance was an optimistic glimpse at a world we could have had.The modern UN is an embarrassment.
>>64571282Hmh, makes me wonder, could it be that if your army has more germans than your enemy then you win?Like US midwesterners vs germany in ww2 and before that germany vs literally everybody for the entirety of history
>>64571153fuck off, vatnik scum>>64571116anon, Europeans couldn't even be begged, cajoled, bullied or threatened to spend even an agreed-upon PEACETIME figure on defence in the year of our Lord 2024, spending of ANY kind let alone on weapons and ammo, let alone on weapons and ammo feeding FOREIGN jobs, and you want them to do that???I think you don't understand just how severely out-of-touch with defence issues the average European voter isleaving that aside, there are severe problems with your proposal just on a technical basis:>universal APCterrain: West Europeans want wheeled APCs; Easterners tracked; Northerners snow-capablealso nobody can decide on the sensor and armour packages, whether to have APS, or whether to have remote turrets, 1-man or 2-maneach one of these decisions have massive design impact that essentially creates a different vehicle, and before you say "variants" I assure you that you will arrive back at square one if you try>the technical packages are freethis would very unfairly penalise the countries whose IP they belong toalso some countries will leak such info very easily to enemies>each county is going to just make thissome countries don't have the industrial capacity or the budget or the manpower, so some will freeload and some will get unfairly lucrative contracts
>>64571248>>64571304
>>64571392>West Europeans want wheeled APCs; Easterners tracked; Northerners snow-capableBruh everyone is buying the wheeled Patria APC from Finland. Even the Germans put out an order 3500 vehicles.
>>64571402
>>64571454Bruh I don't have time to list all the wheeled APCs in development>Even the Germansare buying a different tracked APC from Finland, the GSD, whereas the Finns are going for the TRACKXwhy? because they have vastly different requirementsand if you quit being pedantic and go up to the IFV category, oh boy
>>64571474cyoot
>>64571474awww
>>64571474I wanna feed a carrot to that furry striped faggot.
>>64571474He is multistriped like multi ethni nato soldiers in ww3 lmaoololll
>>64571027>romaniansDidnt hold the flank in stalingrad which caused the encirclement of the 6th army
>>64571392>feeding FOREIGN jobsBut it wouldn't! The idea being that the technical packages are given to the defense manufacturers of each NATO country, and the government of said country would just buy the model of APC/whatever from their own defense companies>Universal APCLook at how each WARPAC nation both standardized and customized their BTRs/BMPs. A country could make modifications to match their situation, but if even 50% of the parts are the same among nations, it's still a huge improvement from what we have now>technical packagesWhoever finally gets the credit for making the technical package will get orders. As for the tech package, what makes the current technical packages that secure? If they are secure now, why wouldn't a new product be just as safe? >each country's industrial capacityWhat do they do currently? Counties who can't make their own APCs/IFVs/etc can just buy from their friends/neighbors/whoever. But hey, those universal APCs/IFVs will likely be cheaper than bespoke vehicles
>>64573204>the government of said country would just buy the model of APC/whatever from their own defense companieswhat makes you think Iceland is capable of building frigates, tanks and jet fighters like Germany can, even if they're given the specs?>WARPACyou want WARPAC build quality too?>Whoever finally gets the credit for making the technical package will get ordersI've already explained the problem this leads to; go reread>why wouldn't a new product be just as safe?I've explained this already; go reread>those universal APCs/IFVs will likely be cheaper than bespoke vehiclesin theory, yes; the F-35 (and many other US weapons used in Europe) is a fine example of thisin practice however most people just can't be convinced that it doesn't matterlike, I could literally get out a piece of paper and pencil and show with simple Grade 3 maths how the money saved from buying F-35s instead of developing Rafale / Typhoon / Gripen can literally pay the ENTIRE LIFE PENSIONS of the workers laid off from those fighter lines, and probably still yield a surplusbut will voters listen?will they fuckmind you, this shouldn't surprise you. after all, you yourself cling to your own deep-seated misconceptions.
>>64573360Please calm down and breathe for a moment>Iceland producing frigates, etc1) Iceland can't make frigates, etc in the first place, they have to buy one from a place of their choosing. But if their national whatever company can make a mil-spec M4, then they can make that with their own companies>WARPAC build qualityUnrelated to what I'm talking about. Take a breathe>distributing technical packages to allies allows them to leak themWhat's stopping them from doing it now? They're perfectly capable of fucking their own country over right now. Besides the schematics to an APC or something aren't exactly TS/SCI. You have a great tendency to either misconstrue or not understand what I'm saying. Perhaps you need to reread my stuff. Slowly. >F-35sThat's a bad example of mass standardization. All those countries are required to buy airframes from the US, who has killswitches and other things lobbed on top of them. Again you demonstrate a total misunderstanding of what I'm proposing>NATO agrees on a standard APC: The Boxer for example>boxer technical packages are distributed to Oshkosh, Patria, etc etc etc> counties buy boxer APCs from their own national companies, all of them making parts to the same spec>War breaks out>US, Italian, Greek, Hungarian motorized units in the same theater>all are able to support each other thanks to their standardized equipment. Hungarian-made parts can work in the Italian APC. US mechanics are able to help the Greek mechanics with their work loadDoes this make more sense? >
>>64573953>the schematics to an APC or something aren't exactly TSokay I'm donegood luck
>>64571197What's the flag between the Dutch and Norwegian ones? Spain?
