>dood NATO will have to spend a milion $ missile on each $20k drone and eventually go bankrupt Why do drone thirdies assume that we will not shoot back and they won't have to worry about their own AD and war spending? And that's aside from the fact they there are many cheaper countermeasures so we won't actually have to spend high end missiles on their droones.
>>65219613You won't do shit
The drone cope only works if you've got a gorillion stockpiles underground you've been accumulating for years or you hope to somehow get a quick victory on the US. The problem is that you still need access to Chinese shipping to make fpv drones.
>>65219613Butthurt over that depot in Crimea zigger? How is your copium reserve holding up?
Those people seem to assume that every war will inevitably descend into an attritional stalemate where both sides are exchanging salvos of long range fire. In that scenario, the cost of intercepting munitions is very relevant because it is practical to just manufacture more cheap munitions than your opponent can afford to intercept and thus guarantee penetration through AD. This isn't a totally unfounded assumption given that it is exactly how the war in Ukraine is playing out.However, that isn't the war that NATO forces are designed to fight. Their AD exists to buy time while their airforce destroys all the shit that the AD is needed to defend against. In that scenario, cost exchange isn't nearly as much of a concern because most of the opposing munitions are getting destroyed on the ground by airstrikes instead of being slowly launched until AD is depleted. This is exactly how the war with Iran played out, with Iran launching a lot of munitions in the early days of the war and forcing a lot of expensive interceptor consumption (and getting an inevitable few lucky hits through), but its numbers fell off a cliff as all the launchers and munitions were destroyed or trapped underground, to the point that it eventually lost the ability to do anything more than threaten civilian ships travelling right along its shores, or launch the occasional flying lawnmower at poorly defended arab oil infrastructure.
>>65219626thirdies still depend on western agri supluses and aid for food securitythe west "not doing shit" is literally all it would take to rugpull anyone getting uppity
>>65219613Bro america and its allies ran out of interceptor missiles in like a week against the thirdie shithole Iran
>>65219716You will foot the bill and welcome turdies in your cunt and you'll be either happy or jailed
>>65219657Thirdies trying to ignore + bury this post kek
>>65219676Looks like anon called it correctly
>>65219724>Iran>thirdie shitholeThe only accurate thing you said.
>>65219982I am from the CIA and this is my post
>>65219613People who live in third world countries tend to have a lower average intelligence than in first world countries, it's part of why they are third world countries.>>65219657This truth is too uncomfortable for the Global South.
>>65219613Are you dumb? The meta until 2022 was that Western nations can bomb any thirdie country with impunity due to 4.5th and 5th gen stealth aircraft, while the thirdie country can't hit back. Drones are this generation's Great Equalizer. It allows poor thirdies to strike back. Thing is, the old meta has made Firstoids averse to seeing casualties on their side because it has became so rare. So, the political impact is much much worse on the firstoid side. We only need a lucky drone hit on a supercarrier's aviation fuel tank killing 300 sailors to turn the American public's opinion to Vietnam-era style protests.
>>65219613Internalized inferiority complex, they subconsciously believe their own lives are worthless, their own casualties are simply not part of the cost consideration. This is a direct result of their government's propaganda efforts, valiant self-sacrifice in droves is usually part of their national ethos, e.g. Russia, Iran, China, the Norks etc.
>>65221061>valiant self-sacrificeYou make it sound much better than it is.No major power has fully functional people, only tools shaped by the regime.
>>65219657The Ukraine war and Iran War proves the thirdies right though. Sure, the quick NATO lightning strike works if you have a specific target (Iran nuke facility, Maduro), but if you're waging full scale war, it's going to take a long time. Trump's basically begging for a negotiation.
>>65221076>full scale war
>>65219982>>65219657>>65220981Open the strait
>>65221076Is it some kind of law of the universe that you retards forget what happens when the USA invades a country in a ground war 10 years after they leave said country?
>>65221076But that's due to a quirk of geography making it easy for Iran to impact global trade by committing terrorism. It has nothing to do with their ballistic missiles or drones directed at American forces.
>>65221109But why not just bomb them into submission?
>>65221053>Drones are this generation's Great Equalizer. It allows poor thirdies to strike back.They've done a pretty piss poor job of equalizing things for Iran. Cheap long range munitions are helpful strategically in their situation for pestering their neighboring countries into hopefully agreeing to concessions for them but they haven't done a whole lot to stop their shit from getting bombed by the US's very own drones. I'm also not sure why everyone talks about how great, cheap, and effective lawnmower drones are while somehow assuming that the US can't and won't make assloads more of the things than they can. Planning to bring more bombs to the fight than the americans is more of a wishful thought than a plan.
>>65221118Their leadership is hiding in caves, their navy is at the bottom of the sea, their sea trade is blockaded, and their most sensitive sites have been bombed with impunity.All the regime has its willingness to direct what little state capacity it retains to murdering civilians, at home and abroad (and western media who will shill for an Islamic theocracy if it rubs dirt in Orange Man's eye)
>>65221124>their sea trade is blockadedApparently not. How can you blockade an entire country but not be able to control a strait?
>>65221162Are you retarded?
>>65219982Based.>>65220387How's the weather in beijing agent chang?
>>65221205Idgaf about some colored map. Until the strait is open for trade, it means jack shit. Results win wars, not coloring maps
>>65221224>goalposts moved The vast majority of Iran's trade goes thru the Strait, a bare minimum of America's does. You do the math.
>>65221229Nigga I meant international trade
>>65221229>>65221233Fill up at the pump and then tell me strait trade doesn't matter to America
>>65221233>>65221233All that proves is Iran is perfectly happy using terrorism, attacking third parties and civilians, as a tool of statecraft>>65221236Never claimed there was no effect, but the U.S. is the only major economy that isn't a net petroleum importer. It can withstand a prolonged exposure to the Strait better than Iran.
>>65221239>All that proves is Iran is perfectly happy using terrorism, attacking third parties and civilians, as a tool of statecraftOk whatever boomer. I wasn't talking about the ethics/morality of Iran's war tactics, I was talking about the effectiveness. Obviously a blockade doesn't mean shit if they still control the water.>It can withstand a prolonged exposure to the Strait better than Iran.Then why is Trump the one begging for a negotiation?
>>65221242>blocking a country's trade doesn't mean shitYou're gonna have to explain that one to me, cheif>Then why is Trump the one begging for a negotiation?Is he, or is it a public facade to lower pressure on commodities markets. He's yet to make a deal, even after several months. It's not clear he's in all that much of a rush to open the Strait, even if he isn't eager for bombs to start falling again. Trump's preference was always for limited action that enacted concessions at the negotiation table. Similar to Venezuela; the goal is to find someone to cut a deal.
>>65221209How's the weather in Langley?
>>65221236It's a $1.50 more where I live. So the great "Persian" (read: nigger) victory is the equivalent of telling me that I have to reduce my McDonalds trips per month by two.
>>65221248>or is it a public facade to lower pressure on commodities markets.Oh damn, why would there be pressure on commodity markets? I thought global trade was intact and the blockade is working?>It's not clear he's in all that much of a rush to open the StraitYeah because he admitted prices were no big deal>Trump's preference was always for limited action that enacted concessions at the negotiation table.Seems a bit long for "limited action"
>>65221250Economically illiterate take. Rising fuel prices affect all facets of the economy. Where do you think plastic comes from? Where do you think energy comes from? Where do you think fertilizer comes from? How do you think things get to stores?
>>65221242>Iran is a terrorist state and that's a-okaypfftPeak brownposting hours. Now are you a jeet, or some other brand of nignog?
>>65221254You're the one who brought up the pumps browntard.Not to mention the price rise you're seeing per oil barrel still isn't enough to cause "le ebin collapse of the west", or that would have already happened during the Iraq War or the Tanker War where Iran "closed" the strait in the 80s.
>>65221251When did I ever say that? You're attacking a strawman. My original contention was simply Iran's trade is blockaded. The effectiveness of Iran's effort to assert control over Hormuz is totally unrelated to that.
>>65221255Peak boomerposting hours. Apparently you're falling for 26-year old stale "War on Terror" propaganda. Pro-tip: Saddam didn't have WMDs
>>65221242>completely ignores the argument, instead changing focusah, so THAT'S how you thirdies operate when reality conflicts with your worldview
>>65221258Okay then, let's leave it that
>>65221257I brought up the pumps because it was an easy indicator dumbass. Obviously rising prices of oil is bad for the entire economy. And no, I never said the West would collapse.
>>65221260The "argument" was a boomercon thought-terminating cliche, the kind boomers say on Fox news to avoid difficult questions like "Why are we over there?" and "Why are prices rising?"
>>65221254Who do you think makes the most oil and gas? And unlike everywhere else on the planet, this war has actually suppressed natural gas prices in America (it's a byproduct of oil production). Iran's playbook is from the 1980s, but since then America has created its own Perisan Gulf at home.
>>65221266Explain the rising prices at the pumps and for everything else
>>65221265Recognizing that the IRGC is a cold-blooded terrorist organization is a boomer take now? You're chill with them funding proxies, missile and droning neutral countries, enriching uranium to weapons grade, and slaughtering their own civilians.Sounds more like you had no plan or stomach to stop them so you instead cope and pretend they aren't a problem.
>>65221269No, he's just a brownoid, and they always support their own even when their own people are being chopped apart by people funded by other browns.
>>65221267I have never said there was no effect. But is it a decisive effect? I really doubt so. Oil is at $90 / barrel. You'd need to get it significantly higher to do real damage. There have been entire decades where oil averaged well above $100 on an inflation adjusted basis.And it's just not clear Iran has the will or ability to make it go higher. It already lets some ships through to Asian countries, the USN is also getting some ships through Omani waters, and pipelines are moving oil to terminals outside the Persian gulf. On top of that there is still a lot of surplus oil in the system that will take months or possibly years to draw down.
>>65221273Fair enough
>>65221269We're really doing 2000's era "We gotta stop the terrorists!" routines now? What's next, calling French Fries "Freedom Fries"?I genuinely thought we moved beyond this shit.
>>65221288Yes actually. Iran's very obvious strategy was to build up a conventional deterrent to shield its nuclear breakout. It almost would have worked, but Hamas jumped the gun, Jolani took over Syria and the Jews took the gloves off and ripped Iran's AD network to shreds, leaving Iran exposed enough that using force to arrest their rise became a viable option for the U.S.Unless you were willing to countenance a nuclear Iran, attacking them now when they're at their relative weakest was the right call.
>>65221299Just like Saddam...
>>65221076>Full scale warYou know that for Iran, this was a full scale war right? Meanwhile for the US this was a limited operation where they achieved near full air domination?If the US wanted it, it could have struck every powerplant and oil refinery in the entire country. You wouldnt even have any power to charge the batteries for the drones or fuel for the Shaheds. In a full scale war, drones wouldn't do shit because the infrastructure supporting them would be BTFO. All the bridges and tunnels allowing transport would also be BTFO. >B-but muh mountain basesThey run on electricity and fuel as well no? You see what both Russia and Ukraine is doing, they know that energy infrastructure is key to winning the war.
>>65221312>>65221312>If the US wanted it, it could have struck every powerplant and oil refinery in the entire country.Then do it?>limited operationMonth 3 of the limited operation
>>65221316>make civilians suffer to build support for the establishmentNice try, Cardboardatollah.
>>65221319>make civilians suffer to build support for the establishmentAnd they aren't rn?
Currently Trump has tied down the israeli airforce to a cuckchair and they have to Watch as Hezbollah drones keep deleting their retarded infantry.
>>65221076Most thirdie countries aren't sat on major trade routes that can't easily be avoided.Mos thirdie countries aren't fighting other thirdie countries to "own the West", they're fighting actual first world countries in this contextAs much as Trump is a fat blubbering retard, one of the reasons he's begging to negotiate is because he can't afford a conventional ground war politically. I'm not a Yank but it's very obvious Iran would get clapped by the US Mil. Which goes to the whole point that wars are not decided just by who has the bigger stick or larger drone stock pile but by real geographical and social factors.
>>65219676>bunkertroon instantly outs xerself Kek
>>65221359Keyword, "would"It's never "did". Look at Afghanistan. Look at what happened in Iraq
>>65221355all 2 infantry kills per week (not exaggerating, this is the actual average since the start of the war)
>>65221374>Look at AfghanistanA failure, but with less losses than russians take in 1 day in ukraine>Look at what happened in IraqComplete military victory, both times? lmao
>>65219613The smart part of NATO is kinda banking on Ukraine being a part of it sooner rather than later.So make of that what you will.
>>65221385Pretty much everyone agrees that NATO membership isn't remotely close, even if the USA does a complete 180 and starts pushing for it. There are practical reasons that it can't happen yet.EU membership is what's going to happen sooner rather than later.
>>65221390I mean yes, in the commentary spheres. But those spheres aren't the ones making the decisions, or having to deal with new conditions. I also agree with you that the EU is in the bag, but that's old news. Point remains that Uke drones and Uke software is being invested in by NATO countries for a reason.
>>65221399I mean if you have some kind of insider info on back-room deals pertinent to all of NATO, perhaps you shouldn't say more. But I think it's more likely that you're just a random dipshit on the internet like I am, and that you're trying to pull something out of thin air here. I haven't seen any indication from anyone, commentator or government or whatever, that Ukraine's acceptance into NATO is remotely close even if the war ends tomorrow.More recent news is that Ukraine rejected a deal to get associate EU membership, instead wanting to wait it out and campaign for full membership ASAP. A month or two ago, I think
>>65221374>Which goes to the whole point that wars are not decided just by who has the bigger stick or larger drone stock pile but by real geographical and social factors.It's almost like I made this point. With the rather obvious conclusion being that dronetards need to understand that it isn't the drone doing the saving but the complex geopolitical factors involved. You know, like what happened in Afghanistan despite the lack of drones?Also Saddam got his shit ran both times so don't know why you're bringing that up, the following GWOT is a great example of the social factors I'm talking about. Not that it really matters, the war in Iraq destroyed Saddams regime which is obviously a victory over the kind of thirdies who love to wank over how great their regimes are???Why don't we talk about Syria and Bashar? lol.>>65221399I haven't really checked but I'd suspect Poland particularly would be very anti-Ukraine joining the EU without serious concessions. Poland is pro-Ukraine but ultimately they're out for their own interests primarily and Ukraine goes against many of those.
>>65219613This is unironically zigger thinking.Yeah good luck fighting a war when all your EW radars, airfields, SAM launchers, heavy weapons, logistics and basically anything bigger than an infantry squad is getting blown up and there's very little you can do about it.Sure, drones can't occupy territory but they're VERY effective at keeping the enemy from doing it.
>>65219613>Why do drone thirdies assume that we will not shoot back and they won't have to worry about their own AD and war spending?well the real problem is sourcing anon russia buys their stuff from china and have a big domestic manufacturing the rest......well lets just say that the chain is so big that if one decides to up the price on something lets say 10% then the whole thing can blow up instantly(cough cough LM)
>>65221453Most of this post is indecipherable but the one thing that is clear, the claim that Russia gets drone systems from china, is mostly incorrect. Most of it is either domestic or sourced through allies like Iran (though those shipments are gone now) with a minority coming from china, and only certain things. See, the US (including the current administration) does actually employ some pretty serious sanctions: one of these is a policy that, if a chinese company is discovered to be supplying the russian military, every single company under the same parent as the offending company will be banned from the US; this has been enforced rather heavy-handedly actually. This means supplying russia with arms generally isn't worth it for any chinese company since Americabux are a better revenue source for most chinese companies than whatever IOUs russians are paying with. And even if a company does like russian IOU payments, think about the stability of russia over the next ten years, and then ask yourself if you could ever under any circumstances make a business deal with their government for anything but cash up-front.But some things do make it from a chinese factory to conscriptovich's drone-piloting hands, of course, mainly components that have heavy civilian uses aside from drones, i.e. batteries and motors. I don't know too much about this but I believe they usually receive orders from "private companies" in russia, don't ask questions, and ship to a warehouse in russia that then immediately ships it to an assembly facility for the russian MIC. But I know of at least one example where they got caught doing this and sanctioned (some circuit board and cooling system hardware supplier, both used for ballistic missiles) so even for this stuff the russians probably have a hard time finding suppliers.
>>65221205>US blockade will affect all ships travelling to or from Iran's Gulf coast* *: As long as they're not Chinese
>>65219657It's the same people who read sensationalist headlines by some ex general who says US operational effectiveness has depleted in XYZ environment and go US is weak or something when in fact it's a depletion in its class, US military slightly weakened to its own parameters is still vastly superior to any military on Earth, the yardstick is the 2003 Iraq invasion/GWOT and yes by that war's standard US has degraded in some areas
>>65219627isnt it speculated that multiple superpowers are looking to build underground drone factories for that exact reason?
>>65221525>Most of this post is indecipherable proceeds to address everything> the claim that Russia gets drone systems from china, is mostly incorrectgood cause nobody said this
>>65221384Absolute cope for failures. 20 years in Afghanistan just to have the Taliban take over the moment we left, and Iraq is now arguably worse. At least we were able to "acquire" Saddams gold
>>65221374Saddam and Al Queda are still a threat?
>>65221239>>65221269Dick Cheney rose from the dead, and now he's posting on /k/
>>65219613Because thirdies literally no conception of what they might need to fight a war, which is why they always spend 10-30 years getting demolished before the white invaders get bored and go home.Just look at the chinkshill constantly gloating over the state of American interceptor stocks without ever acknowledging the fact that Chinese missile interceptors are less capable even on paper (their SM-3 and THAAD equivalents aren't even in service yet, their ESSM "equivalent" is an original RIM-7 clone, etc), have similarly limited stockpiles, and have even lower yearly production.
>>65221555They've been halted as well.
>>65220295>mfw the best cope Amerimutts can come up with is an AI cardboard cutout of the Ayatollah getting better healthcare better than most AmericansSad! >https://youtu.be/d_Qkv_5D6-4
>>65222039>better healthcareI don't want healthcare from any doctor who was balls-deep in a prepubescent goat recently, and who probably diagnoses every disease as "Jinns."
>>65222079Hits much less harder when the countries leaders are fighting tooth and nail to import the goat fuckers
>>65221838>we
Welp
thank goodness we have @clashreport on twitter to give us truthful groundbreaking news
>>65222951Unironically yesLemme guess, you only use legacy sources?
>>65221229>The vast majority of Iran's trade goes thru the Strait, a bare minimum of America's does. You do the math.Okay, the math is that America relies nigh-infinitely more on the global economy than Iran does, meaning this state of affairs fucks the US far more than it does Iran. Trump is gonna get Carter'd long before Iran has to throw the towel if the strait stays closed. Seethe more about it.
>>65219613>Why do drone thirdies assume that we will not shoot back and they won't have to worry about their own AD and war spending?Because they anticipate getting hit back and have hardened all of their vital military facilities retard. It's why America failed to permanently disable a single of Iran's dozens of missile cities while F-5s were bombing American bases in Kuwait because the Pentagon was arrogant enough to assume that their le "decapitaiton strike" would effective in any way.Bragging about superiority over "le turdies" 3 months into the most embarrassing defeat in American history is quite the choice for the tourists, gotta say.
>>65221103It turns into a post apocalyptic nightmare or their former allies turn on them?
>>65221347they were suffering before, they are suffering during, and they will suffer after.Its about perception. We are being considerate trying not to cause them undue suffering, they understand some extra sufferings will occur as we kill the causes of their previous sufferings, and their desire for revenge will absorb that. So long as they dont suffer so much they mind break and wish they had the old suffering back instead we are good.
>>65221316They didn't do it because it is a limited operation in the minds of the US, thinking it would be enough against a country that thinks this as a full scale war. Iran is up against the wall and ready to go the way, but the US doesnt because the cost/benefit just isnt there to go beyond that. If they did, oil price would hit 200 USD and the US cannot stomach that because they unlike the Iranians dont have their backs up against the wall. They did a gamble and failed, now they either accept their losses or double down. How hard is it for you to understand?
>>65223050>Its about perception. We are being considerate trying not to cause them undue suffering*triple taps a girl's school*An air campaign alone has never forced an enemy to surrender or destroyed a military. Ever. It without exception always emboldens the populace and leadership.
>>65222958>thirdies now believe that twitter feeds are the most reliable way of getting newswe need to cut internet access to your shithole immediately
>>65223065Dude I'm your side, why are you acting antagonistic towards me?
>>65221855>nooooo just let them bomb us!Yeah this is how 9/11 happened.
>>65223072Tell me, what's your special reliable source then?
>>65223077You have to a special kind of gullible to think Iran was going to actually bomb us on our own soil.
>>65223069>*triple taps a girl's school*targeting error>everit has pretty much destroyed a military to the point that if they were a european nation and not death cultists they would have given up by now. The population is firmly where it already was, the rural conservatives support the theocracy and the liberal urbanites are bibists
>>65223069>girls school >on a military base>at night >on saturdayGet new material.
>>65223086irans plan was to build up enough of a missile capability that it could begin its nuclear program in earnest by making it too costly to attack them.Not to mention iran directly funds terrorists which can and have already done so.
>>65223091Lmfao you actually believe that ad-hoc justification? Maybe you should double check your targets if you want to avoid civilian damage
>>65223093Damn, just like Saddam was planning. Good thing Bush was there to stop it!
>>65223104i think removing the secular middle eastern governments was a mistake.i understand the strategy was to use the arab tribalism to keep the whole thing in disarray but we ran out of people willing to come down hard on fanatics the way arabs would actually understand.
>>65223089>destroyed>literally bombed Israel a few days ago>Trump just gave them $3 billion to stopInteresting definition of destroyed.>>65223091Please find me a major American military base that doesn't have an school right next door.
>>65223093I'm glad you know more than our entire intelligence apparatus that has consistently stated under oath that there is no evidence of Iran developing a nuclear weapon. They are aligned with multiple nuclear states and were already deep into development of a nuke back when they stopped in 2004. They don't have a nuke because they don't want a nuke.We attacked Iran for Israel, lost badly, and are now trying to save as much face as possible. It's as simple as that.
>>65223134It's sad that thry genuinely thought they could pass Fox News propaganda as truth. I remember seeing these exact propaganda points about muh state terror and muh nukes on a Fox News Broadcast in a restaurant a few months ago. Not to mention that Iran obviously doesn't have a reliable way to actually get the non-existing nuke to the US
>>65223086>own soilOh, it's not like Iran has never attacked or funded attacks against US troops abroad or anything.
>>65223098>>65223119>can't deny itYou never do.
>>65223143>denying reality this fucking hardMan, third world living is one hell of a drug.
ITT: seething thirdies repetitively posting nonsensical beliefs. Exactly what OP wanted
>>65223134>I'm glad you know more than our entire intelligence apparatus that has consistently stated under oath that there is no evidence of Iran developing a nuclear weapon. They are aligned with multiple nuclear states and were already deep into development of a nuke back when they stopped in 2004. They don't have a nuke because they don't want a nuke.Nigger are you retarded? They're enriching uranium to levels with no purpose whatsoever except for the development of nuclear weapons lol
>>65223119>sent 11 missiles to israel after having a month of ceasefirevs>sending hundreds of missiles per day>>65223134>we just want peaceful nuclear power bro thats why we are spending all our economy on building missiles instead of fixing our water problems and have our peaceful enrichment centrifuges buried under mountainsthey are a theocracy that believes they must participate in an apocalyptic world ending war with the united states of america so that the 12th imam will reappear.>>65223171you see their proxies count as them when attacking them violates a ceasefire and not them when they kill anybody
>>65223183They only started enriching high after our resident retard Trump ripped up the nuke deal and imposed massive sanctions on them. The highly enriched uranium is a bargaining tool to get Zog to lay off the sanctions. This is like basic bitch facts nigger, do you watch anything other than mainstream news?We attacked Iran for Israel and lost.>>65223196>they are a theocracy that believes they must participate in an apocalyptic world ending war with the united states of americaThird Temple Judaism?
