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What is autogynephilia?
Is it a real phenomenon?
Do cis women experience autogynephilia?
How does autogynephilia emerge?

I’m a trans girl who dates mostly boys but sometimes girls, but never experiences sexual attraction or arousal or even masturbates. am i an autogynephilie just because i date boys sometimes?

please help, this makes no sense to me.
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>>10851875
>What is autogynephilia?
“The paraphilic tendency of someone who is anatomically male to be sexually aroused by the thought of being a female” (the wording is from Wiktionary).

>Is it a real phenomenon?
Yes. What is not real is Blanchard’s typology. Autogynephilia is often conflated with his typology.

>Do cis women experience autogynephilia?
Some experience the same phenomenon, but it is not called autogynephilia when it occurs in cis women, by definition.

>How does autogynephilia emerge?
How does a favorite color emerges? How does a person favorite field of science emerges? We do not know how the mind works with that level of details; all we have is restatements of the question that pretend to be answers.

>I’m a trans girl who dates mostly boys but sometimes girls, but never experiences sexual attraction or arousal or even masturbates. am i an autogynephilie just because i date boys sometimes?
No. Why do you date boys? They are gross and will rarely (if ever) understand your asexuality.
>>
>What is autogynephilia?
a term Blanchard made up to describe his theory of trannies being "fetishistic straight men so into pussy that they transition to get a pussy of their own"
>Is it a real phenomenon?
As Blanchard described it? No. However it is very common for trans women, especially pre-transition, to have sexual fantasies about feminisation or about being a woman.
>Do cis women experience autogynephilia?
80-97% of them pass Blanchard's tests for autogynephilia in traners. Turns out MOST cis women imagine themselves as a woman during sex, and are aroused at the idea of partners seeing them as an attractive woman.
>How does autogynephilia emerge?
It's a natural result of sexually identifying as a woman. The more fetishy parts like forced feminization fantasies come from the trauma of repressing transness

>I’m a trans girl who dates mostly boys but sometimes girls, but never experiences sexual attraction or arousal or even masturbates. am i an autogynephilie just because i date boys sometimes?
According to Blanchard you're an AGP because you date girls, and the only non-AGP tranners are the ones who exclusively date boys.
Of course that's bullshit and he's a retard.
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>>10851905
i just realised i meant to type “because i date GIRLS occasionally” not what i actually typed

my boyfriend has been really understanding about my sexuality, actually. and idk, boys are cute
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>>10851928
thanks, this is really helpful. it felt like i was missing something because it didn’t make sense how it applied to me
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>>10851875
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00918360903005212
this is a pretty useful paper on AGP - not so much for the conclusion as the thorough introduction
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>>10851980
this looks really interesting
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>>10851930
>boys are cute
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>>10852056
why are transbians like this
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>>10852070
because they literally cannot accept people like things that they don't
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>>10851875
>What is autogynephilia?
A sexual orientation where desire for a girl is instead desire to be a girl. It's behind most mtfs (the remainder being HSTS).
>Is it a real phenomenon?
Yes. People hate on Blanchard because of their own anti-AGP internalized feelings. But even some people who disagree with Blanchard's two types admit AGP is real.
>Do cis women experience autogynephilia?
AGP is a variant of gynephilia. Just like a minority of gynephilic males are AGP girls instead of het guys, a minority of lesbian cis women may be AGP.
>How does autogynephilia emerge?
It's a natural variation on sexuality, like homosexuality is. There's some evidence that it's genetic, since multiple generations in the same family seem to be AGP.
>I’m a trans girl who dates mostly boys but sometimes girls, but never experiences sexual attraction or arousal or even masturbates. am i an autogynephilie just because i date [girls] sometimes?
No, you'd be an AGP anyway because of your asexuality. Ace, bi and lesbian mtfs, as well as some straight mtfs, are dysphoric because of their AGP orientations.
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>>10852285
can you explain how asexuality and autogynephilia interact
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>>10852368
simple: papa Blanchard has declared that all "bi" or "asexual" girls (aka counterevidence for his shitty typology) are simply dirty liars on top of being AGP transbians
also all transbians who claim not to have AGP fantasies
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>>10851875
K-on is an anime for 30-year-old boomers, please do not appropriate Mio for dirty zoomers.
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>>10851875
>>10851905
fpbp and it's Ksenia. Fuck.
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>>10852393
so asexuals are autogynephiles because thus spoke the lord blanchard
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>>10852368
AGP is one of two known causes of dysphoria. The other, extreme effeminacy and homosexuality, doesn't apply to asexuals.

An AGP can take comfort from her AGP orientation without needing sex to go along with it. It could even be considered MORE extremely AGP: getting off to fantasies of being a woman having sex is one thing, but fantasies of a woman who isn't having sex is something else.
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>>10853051
but i don’t get aroused, i don’t get it
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>>10853051
AGP doesn't cause dysphoria. dysphoria causes AGP.
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>>10851905
sorry, confused egg (and /lgbt/ newfag) here
>The paraphilic tendency of someone who is anatomically male to be sexually aroused by the thought of being a female
is it really just limited to arousal/sexual attraction? in a completely non-horny state I still fantasize about being a woman and wearing woman clothes, but not in a sexual way. [spoiler] Can't put my finger on why that is, something about feeling pretty and free, and how it's like I can't get that as a male. (terrible explanation but fuck feels are hard to describe sometimes) [/spoiler] so its not just my boner that wants to be a woman sometimes. Is that AGP? what is that?
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>>10853670
Hey, for the future, anon, if you want to spoiler something, just highlight it, and hit ctrl+s
Like [spoiler]this[/spoiler]

I can't tell you what it is, but I know that's how I feel.
I feel like I'd be much more free to be the person I want to be if I'd been born female, rather than just having to settle somewhere I'm only sorta-okay with.
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>>10853687
Oh, my goodness, I take that back.
Pardon me for acting like a know-it-all!
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>>10853687
You really put it nicely. I don't know if it's something i can ever truly fix, but its nice seeing i'm not the only one feeling this way.
>>10853689
lmao it's fine, i'm guessing there's just no way to [spoiler] here
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>>10853670
>in a completely non-horny state I still fantasize about being a woman and wearing woman clothes, but not in a sexual way. [spoiler] Can't put my finger on why that is
the "why" is you being trans, idiot
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>>10853670
>>10853134
How many times, AGP isn't just sexual, that's why AGPs transition and live happier lives as girls!

Expecting AGP to just be sexual is like expecting gays to just have sane-sex sex and then carry on dating and marrying the opposite sex!

>>10853165
There's no evidence for this at all and you know it. What's your reason for believing it? Because you can't stand AGP, that's why.
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>>10852056
mario is a homophobic faggot

>>10853903
>There's no evidence for this at all and you know it.

Is there any evidence that dypshoria is caused by AGP?
Blanchards speculations aren't evidence.
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>>10853942
Without AGP fucking stuff up people who have it would be normal heterosexual men.
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Public Service Announcement:
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The AGP vs HSTS distinction is an unproven pseudoscientific meme created by a guy in the 80s. Zero reputable associations of health professionals subscribe to it. It's neither in the DSM, nor the CID, nor in the WPATH standards of care. Given all this, it is funny how this fringe theory is given so much credit by a few people on this board.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Thanks for listening!
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>>10854007
I do have AGP, piss off.
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>>10854007

see: >>10853903
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>>10854068
>have vore fetish
>"guess I'll have to live inside some else's stomach from now on"

The absolute state of blanchposters.

>>10854022
You have AGP fetish, but that doesn't tell us if you have dysphoria or not.
Only dysphoria can determine whether you trans.
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>>10854022
You are missing the point. "AGP" fantasies do exist. And a trans woman can have them! It's super common.
The unproven bullshit is blanchs AGPxHSTS typology and it's assumptions about the causes is being trans.
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>>10853942
>What's your reason for believing it? Because you can't stand AGP, that's why.
I was right. You can't answer because I already wrote your answer.

At least we can agree on hating Mario.
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>>10854724
Not the same OP. But Blanchard's supposed causes of dysphoria are indeed still unproven. It says nothing against trans girls who have AGP-like can fantasies (it is a normal thing). It's just that having AGP as somehow "the cause of dysphoria" is still just a conjecture by blanch.
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so wait is AGP just a sense of “feeling good”, not necessarily tied to sexual arousal, about being a girl because then are the only non-autogynephiles dysphoric trans men and cis men
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>>10855111
AGP can be only sexual (source: Blanchard)

Feeling good because someone called you a girl etc. is not AGP and don't let historical revisionists tell you otherwise.
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>>10853903
>>10855127
so we have a contradiction here. if autogynephilia IS sexual, it can’t explain people who have no sexual attraction or arousal. if it ISNT sexual, i don’t think it’s a meaningful descriptor
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>>10855127
>source: Blanchard
Quote please.

This won't be a problem for you will it?
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>>10855159
"Autogynephilia" (/ˌɔːtoʊˌɡaJnəˈfJliə/; from Greek αὐτό- ("self"), γυνή ("woman") and φιλία ("love") — "love of oneself as a woman") is a term coined in 1989 by Ray Blanchard, to refer to "a man's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman."[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard's_transsexualism_typology

>>10855142
I agree that AGP isn't a useful descriptor for anything.
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>>10855233
[not in citation given]
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>>10855233
OK but do you have any proof that sexual arousal is always sexual? sometimes sexual arousal is just a feeling of being happy and doesn't actually involve being sexually aroused.
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>>10855250
you don't know what paraphilia means?
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>>10855255
>do you have any proof that sexual arousal is always sexual?
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>>10855255
It is by definition always sexual.
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>>10855264
>>10855271
what I mean is, sometimes sexual arousal is just feeling good, not feeling sexual or feeling aroused, but it is still sexual arousal because it is caused by a sexual orientation (meta-attraction)
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>>10855294
SEXUAL arousal is _by definition_ being aroused in a sexual way. What part of «SEXUAL arousal» did you not understand?
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>>10855127
>>10855233
>>10855257
You said "source: Blanchard" but your actual """source""" is your own interpretation is a word on a wikipedia page.

Deceitful.
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>>10855307
1. meta-attraction is a sexual orientation
2. AGPs often experience happiness of a non-sexual kind when presenting as women, imagining themselves as women, etc
3. this happiness is a result of a sexual orientation (meta-attraction)
4. so it is sexual arousal
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>>10855322
It's a direct quote from his book/paper.
The man himself EXPLICITLY claims that AGP is a sexual fetish.
What's deceitful about this?
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>>10855344
>AGPs often experience happiness of a non-sexual kind when presenting as women, imagining themselves as women, etc
True, but that is not autogynephilia.
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>>10855322
if you follow the citation in the Wikipedia article you get to a Blanchard paper in which the very first line of the abstract is

>This study tested the hypothesis that all gender-dysphoric males who are not sexually aroused by men (homosexual) are instead sexually aroused by the thought or image of themselves as women (autogynephilic).
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>>10855361
what is it, then?
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>>10855344
Citation needed for all of those.

Also sexual orientation and gender are separate things. Experiencing happiness from presenting as a woman etc. comes from gender euphoria, not from sexual arousal.
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>>10855389
See >>10855233
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>>10855344
so you would say asexuals experience meta-attraction (i don’t even know what this means)
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>>10855556
yes, asexual trans women are AGP and therefore their dysphoria is caused by sexual arousal at the thought of being women (even if, as asexuals, they do not experience sexual arousal)
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>>10855604
this is what Blanchardians actually believe, ladies and gentlemen
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>>10855604
wait so their dysphoria is caused by sexual attraction which they do not experience ? how does this make sense ?
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>>10855624
all dysphoria is caused by sexual arousal, whether it is experienced or not
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>>10855754
you can't prove it so stop wasting everyone's time
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>>10855389
DO NOT LISTEN TO MARIO
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>>10855762
deny it all you want, Blanchard was right
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>>10855800
source: my feels
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>>10855754
>people only eat because of hunger
>people who do not eat because of hunger still eat because of hunger
>this is an unfalsifiable claim
>>
blanchardites can never explain asexuality or bisexuality, period
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>>10855819
they can't explain anything, lol
notice that the only reference in this thread was my comment with Blanchard's definition of AGP

they're just low-effort trolls and gaslighters

no wonder people repress and become hons after being brainwashed into believing they're fetishists
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>>10855834
>notice that the only reference in this thread was
your wikipedia link which you claimed before and after quoting it was what Blanchard said, not a dictionary definition from your head.
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>>10855852
It was a direct quote from Blanchard you genetic trash:

Blanchard R (October 1989). "The concept of autogynephilia and the typology of male gender dysphoria". The Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease. 177 (10): 616–23. doi:10.1097/00005053-198910000-00004. PMID 2794988.
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>>10851875
I legit can't figure out if I count as AGP or not.
>bisexual leaning gynephilic
>don't get aroused from everyday clothing/makeup
>do get aroused if, say, I put on lingerie and do self bondage
>do get aroused at the thought of being sexy/arousing others
>only crossdressed before transition as a joke
>mostly cluster A traits
Is this all just a fetish?
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>>10855852
>>10855866
>This study tested the hypothesis that all gender-dysphoric males who are not sexually aroused by men (homosexual) are instead sexually aroused by the thought or image of themselves as women (autogynephilic).
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>>10855866
Your "AGP is only sexual nothing else" comes from nowhere but your head.
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>>10855891
Blanchard literally made a test "how AGP you are" and it's entirely based on sexual arousal, not gender dysphoria.

http://individual.utoronto.ca/ray_blanchard/index_files/EPES.html
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>>10855891
what else is it, then?
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>>10855924
i’m just imagining blanchard administering this to me in the 80s and me saying “i don’t experience sexual attraction so this question makes no sense” and him looking at me sideways
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>>10856159
iktf
zero attraction to myself but the blanchie squad here would happily label me as AGP
they are beyond salvation
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>>10856159
but you do, you experience sexual attraction to thought of yourself as a woman. otherwise why would you be dysphoric? there's literally no other plausible explanation.
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>>10856173
>otherwise why would you be dysphoric? there's literally no other plausible explanation.

Why do you believe this. This doesn't make any sense.
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>>10856173
me transitioning because of a fetish wouldn’t be plausible even if i wasn’t asexual, but i’ll bite: i say i don’t experience sexual arousal or attraction, you say i do; what are signs i might exhibit if i do ?
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>>10856200
dysphoria in the absence of (male) homosexuality is a consequence of sexual arousal at the thought of yourself as a woman, so the desire to be or to appear like a woman is in and of itself a sign of sexual arousal due to meta-attraction. someone further up the thread has helpfully provided a source by Blanchard that makes this very clear.
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>>10856188
because Blanchard is a respected academic and you are just a random 4chan poster. which of the two sounds most qualified to you?
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>>10856354
>dysphoria in the absence of (male) homosexuality is a consequence of sexual arousal at the thought of yourself as a woman

So you're agreeing that anon isn't AGP. Good to know we're on the same page.
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>>10856354
let me tell you my life story

at 8 i play dress up with my little sister, often steal dresses and makeup from my mom

at 10 i am bullied for being gay constantly

at 11 i develop crushes on girls but they always fade quickly

at 12 i develop crushes on boys and think it’s stockholm syndrome cuz the bullying

at 14 i lose my virginity to a boy

at 16 i am constantly mocked by my dad for being overly feminine

at 16 i tell a teacher i think i am only interested in boys and she tells me to consider celibacy

at 18 i tell my parents i’m transgender and get my first serious boyfriend

does this sound AGP ?
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>>10856461
asexuals are AGP by definition
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>>10856480
not in real world though
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>>10856490
are you calling Ray Blanchard a fictional character? are his degrees, publications, and citations fake?
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>>10856504
If he wrote that Earth is flat you'd still believe him? Degrees mean nothing and they're not AGP-related anyway.
There are literally people in this thread telling you they don't experience AGP and you're telling them they're lying. That's how delusional you are.
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>>10856538
non-homosexual dysphoric males are AGP whether or not they realise it, this is an integral part of Blanchard's typology. I'm not telling anyone they're lying, I'm simply presenting peer reviewed science which shows that they do in fact experience sexual arousal at the idea of themselves as a woman, whether or not they feel aroused sexually.
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>>10856364
>Science hasn't determined yet the causes of being trans, so everyone has to believe in Blanchard's unproven assumptions
Ugh, no? Also, is Blanchard really all that respected? I don't see his typology being taken seriously by most doctors specialized in trans medicine.
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>>10856609
Blanchard has determined the cause(s) of dysphoria so yes, there is a scientific explanation. if you have another explanation I encourage you to publish it yourself in a peer reviewed journal.
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>>10856599
There are no scientific peer-reviewed papers proving that dysphoria can be caused by sexual arousal from presenting as a woman.
In fact, as >>10856609 mentioned, causes of dysphoria are still unclear.

Sorry but AGP is an unproven theory at best.
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>>10855883
I remember when I crossdressed as a "joke" too anon lole cmon

Actually there were a few times it was a legit joke and a few times it was an excuse. Probs more times it was an excuse.
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LET'S ALL LEARN THE DIFFERENCE:
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Some people have Female Embodiment Sexual Fantasies (FESFs). For example, it is known that some pre-transition trans girls have them. Some like to call this as "having AGP". But be aware that using AGP this way doesn't necessarily mean the person believes in the Blanchard's AGP vs. HSTS meme typology.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Blanchard's AGP vs. HSTS typology is a reducionist pseudoscientific meme created in the 80s. It is a fringe view and still unproven. Indeed, ZERO reputable associations of health professionals subscribe to it. No wonder it's neither in the DSM, nor in the CID, nor in the WPATH standards of care.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
THANKS FOR READING!
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>>10856659
doing god's work anon
this should be posted whenever AGP is mentioned
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>>10856599
wait, how am i not homosexual? you read my story and i said even now i primarily date boys
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>>10856504
it’s not the 80s anymore; there’s competing scholarship on trans issues
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>>10854119
And what is dysphoria?
>>
dysphoria is not needed to be trans because gender is fake
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Bi cis male here. For years I’ve been turned on by the thought of being a woman and dressing like one, I like boys & girls equally but I read my attraction to men is only because it validates me as a woman. Is this true or a meme ?
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>>10856853
dysphoria is needed to be trans AND gender is fake
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>>10857012
considering gender is social you probably have to have some kind of social dysphoria
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>>10857007
it is a meme.
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sometimes when i’m riding my boyfriend and i can feel my breasts bouncing i imagine i’m some porn star with perfect tits that can make him horny by just looking at him. does this make me agp AND hsts ?
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>>10857168
look i know this is a stupid question but i’m curious
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>>10851928

>80-97% of them pass Blanchard's tests for autogynephilia in traners. Turns out MOST cis women imagine themselves as a woman during sex, and are aroused at the idea of partners seeing them as an attractive woman

No, they passed MOSER's requirements for AGP, the questions are heavily framed with buzzwords like "sexy, erotic, romantic" and reference a sexual partner, all of which are not included in Blanchards AGP requirements.

There's a fucking difference between asking a person "Are you turned on by woman's clothing?" with AND I QUOTE FROM MOSERS STUDY "I have been erotically aroused by dressing in sexy attire in preparation for a romantic evening when hoping to meet a sex partner"

see the difference in framing? you really don't think the priming had an effect on the subjects, which by the way were less than 50 and the population was all picked from the same hospital, thus negating any findings as being indicative of all "cis" woman?

Moser's study had only had 29 completed questionnaires lmao but sure yes let's make it seem like females are so narcissistic in their sexuality that AGP is just an aspect of being female rather than a sexual fetish specific to males.

Have you actually read the study? It's awful. Let alone the fact a woman cannot be autogynephilic as per its very own definition





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