King Maegor editionASOIAF wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_PageBlog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/Old blog: https://grrm.livejournal.com/So Spake Martin (interviews): https://westeros.org/citadel/ssm/Book search: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/SSM search: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=006888510641072775866:vm4n1jrzsdyGeneral search: http://searcherr.work/TWOW samples: https://archive.org/details/411440566-the-winds-of-winter-released-chaptersLast thread: >>23821870
>>23834858buy an ad niggerlover
Who is better at sex? Arya or Sansa? Imagine that they are of course legal age
Only S tier rulers(objectively, inarguably):>Maegor I>Aegon I>Daenerys I
>>23834916what this question is really asking is whether you are a sub or a dom(arya is dominant while sansa is submissive)
THIS IS YOUR DAILY REMINDERTHIS IS YOUR DAILY REMINDER TO PUT ON YOUR TINFOIL, HEAT UP YOUR GRRM BRAND QUESO TO VALYRIAN TEMP 135.5THE SHADE OF THE EVENING HAS BEEN DRANK & IT'S TIME TO SLAM YOUR MOON TEA, LOG INTO WEIRWOOD.NET & MARK OFF YOUR CHECKLISTTO POP YOUR-JOJEN PASTE-MOON TEA-MILK OF THE POPPY-BRAVOSI LEMONShttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoHSLwOmNS8 [Embed] <- HIT PLAY NIGGA>YOUR GAME OF THRONES THEME SONG ALARM BLASTS THROUGH YOUR HOUSE>YOU INSTINCTIVELY JUMP INTO YOUR BACKYARD TRAINING YARD, FITTED WITH BATTLE-ROPES & A "FIGHTING PIT" STYLE DOTHRAKI ACTION COURSE>AFTER YOUR INTENSE WORKOUT YOU CALL OVER ELIO & LINDA USING GOOGLE HANGOUTS BEFORE GETTING INTO YOUR ISOLATION/SOCIAL DEPRIVATION FORUM (/got/) & PACKING YOUR MOUTH TO THE BRIM WITH LEMONCAKES FOLLOWED SHORTLY AFTERWARDS BY IRON ISLAND SALTWATER ENEMAS JUST AS THE SOURLEAF KICKS IN AS YOU LISTEN TO YOLKBOY & LADY GUINVERE HYPOTHESIZE THAT THE CHILDREN OF THE FOREST=ALIENS & THE SWORD OF THE MORNING IS HIDDEN IN MEEREENDUDE JEYNE POOL = GENE POOL LMAODUDE ANCIENT CAVERNS LITERALLY ENCRUSTED WITH NUCLEAR FALLOUT & COVERED IN WILDFIRE & TAKING PLACE IN GRRM'S SCI-FI UNIVERSE ASIMOV STYLE>"ASHAYA FROM HISTORY WESTEROS PODCAST JUST END IT ALL! I THINK YOU'RE A WORTHLESS YOUTUBER & I HATE YOU, BUT COME BACK ON /R/ASOIAF SO I CAN BLOW YOU THE FUCK WHEN YOU BITCH ABOUT ME USING FAN ART IN MY VIDS & REDUCE YOU TO TEARS">"ASHAYA "SNITCHES GET STICHES" "JUST" TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT! YOUR YOUTUBE CAREER IS OVER. AZIZ & SEAN BARELY HAD YOU ON THE PODCAST THIS YEAR BECAUSE YOU'RE A TOXIC CUNT WHO STARTS SHIT WITH MORE POPULAR YOUTUBERS LIKE ME. IT'S TIME FOR THE VALYRIAN STEEL DAGGER RETIREMENT PLAN!"-Preston Jacobs, 2015>YOU ARE NOW PICTURING PRESTON JACOBS NAKED IN A WEIRWOOD TREE WITH A MOUTH FULL OF WEIRWOOD PASTE TRIPPING- Brought to you by The Dornish Brotherhood Without Banners©"GILBERT KING!"
Winds, never.But also why can’t any anons living in New Mexico go ask him about it?
>>23835288Yes... "ask" him about it...
>>23834580>>23834583based jonsaGAWD there are a surprising amount here
Does anyone believe he was ramping up the story to be a longer LOTR with the White Walkers and Magic returning, but got lost in the praise of subversion? OrWas he always a hack that was always going to end it in a pseudo-intellectual, medieval democracy starting and “The White Walkers are climate change!” kind of way?
>>23835460I also think Jon and Sansa coming together would be a kino ending for them. It actually would make sense politically, too. From the "same" family, technically. Jon has both Stark and Targaryen in his blood. Some anon posted a long time ago a whole breakdown on why he thinks grum has actually hinted at this throughout the books and that single handedly convinced me that it was very possible.
>>23835482I think it's the latter. I think he can pull it off much better than winking at the audience and saying "get it? It's global warming" and rather, my prediction is that he intends the brunt of the drama to lie on how divided the people of Westeros are and whether or not they will put aside petty differences to come together and fight for a common cause. That's being as charitable as I can be, though, and hoping he doesn't beat you over the head with it.
>>23835482The books never had anything in common with LOTR. They were always about human evil, not a race war between humans and orcs.The Others are closer to elves than orcs
Just read The Rogue Prince and feel very disappointed. It's almost the exact same as F&B, and despite the story being interesting, it's so dry it gets boring. Wish it went more in depth on stuff like the War on the Stepstones.
>>23835550Deserved for reading his low-effort sideslop.
>>23835515any chance you could dig that up, i would like to read it
>>23835626Not that anon but he may be talking about this.https://warosu.org/lit/thread/23318368#p23342320There's also this: https://thejonsacompendium.wordpress.com/
Preston is kind of wilding in tonight’s stream.>[talking about making things fit in Winds] yeah well Winds and Dream are never going to be finished anyways, so it’s not like this really matters 5 minutes later>[question about Fire and Blood being bad] yeah I agree that Fire and Blood is not very goodI agree with all these takes for what it’s worth.
>>23835843he should stop streaming and return to making kinos like the Frey civil war and Jon's elections and death.
>>23835893Well the good news is he said that Asha is next up for his Sweetrobin fanfic. I might even try submitting something this time.
>>23835903>fanficit's mostly bad. sadly.there were only a couple of good chapters. the maester Jon one and the Vale tourney. the rest is dogshit.
>>23835917I think I agree. I liked Sansa’s chapter well enough too. I can’t remember a single thing from the Dorne chapters but there’s nothing Preston could’ve done to salvage that storyline for me. And he’s never getting me to click on another Meereen storyline chapter again. That stuff with Tyrion and Victarion was bad. I guess that he was trying to be GRRM-levels of cringe and horny, but it was really uncomfortable.
>>23835933>I can’t remember a single thing from the Dorne chaptersi remember the extremely cringe Areo Hotah chapter where Darkstar tricked him into surrendering.
Coldhands is Runcel Hightower
>>23835626>>23835682the jonsacompendium blog is what convinced melots of anons don't like it though, so i refrain from saying it is what gurrm intended. but i have it as my headcanon 1000%
>>23835147i need to worship arya's feet.....
>>23836198You don't want to do that.>Arya chewed her lip as she walked along on feet grown hard with callus.>When Arya's turn came round, Goodwife Amabel clucked in dismay at the sight of her feet>"Well," Arya said, "my hair's messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard."
>>23836247i would nurse them back to being pretty
>>23836172there is no reason to hide it. i know reddit hates it but they can't downvote you here. let it fly.
>>23834916Neither put their fingers in my swamp
>>23836172Unless Dumb and Dumber were told the wrong ending I don't see how it fits with him ending up beyond the wall.
>>23835147Idk, Sansa is getting pretty dominant with Harry. Certainly more proactive.
>>23835917idk man i really liked quentyn and jaime was also great. even if quentyn isn't alive it really hit the themes about adventure being rotten for quentynsamwell areo chapters were pretty meh tho
can we agree that if winds comes out it will be massively disappointing?
>>23836454After well over a decade of waiting? Yes.
>>23836454I have never understood the idea that time = increased expectations
>>23836464The wait hypes it up. People forget that the last two books were mediocre
>>23836475No, I get that people think that, but I still don't understand why. Why does waiting make you think it's somehow better? There's no logical correlation here.
>>23836479It isn't logical.> Me: Spend more patience on waiting> = Author: Spend more effort into writing > -> A better bookA sort of mental alchemy.
>>23836479It's a kind of self delusion"Martin will fix the mess left by the show"
>>23836454All it has to do at this point is be better than the later seasons of the show (not a high bar) and most people will lap it up.
Stannis deserved it.
>>23836555Yes
I can't believe this
>>23836601Honestly I'm only surprised by Bran on the Iron Throne, what a shit ending. If he doesn't change it he deserves to be memoryholed, forgotten and ASOIAF goes into the trash bin. Bran is the least 'throne-worthy' character ever and has nothing to do with it anyhow
Anon? How do you end the Meereen plot?
>>23836601Stannis burning his daughter for what? I didn't watch the show.
>>23836629>oh look i'm so cool i didn't even watch the show hehe
>>23836624>Dany leaves the city on the back of Drogon>Seige is ended with her forces victorious despite her abscene,thanks to Victarion and his fleet smashing the Volantinni fleet.>Get left in the Dothraki sea by Drogon, dying of dysenteryShe either goes the show path and goes back to their sole city and seizes total control somehowHow she gets back to Slavers bay, or how her forces find her is anyones guess
Explain Quentyn Martell in ADWD
>>23836609If it makes you happier with the idea, there is a popular theory on Reddit that Bran will warg into Jon's corpse and stay there all the way to the throne, playing at being a great knight. Jon will stay inside Ghost. I don't know if that's how it will play out, but I will be hyped if it does.
>>23836651Bran is not wise enough for politics
>>23836651> Bran will warg into Jon's corpse and stay thereNo precedent to foreshadow that.
Barristan dealing with Victarion >will be hilarious
>>23836665Victarion is a big man.
>>23836669For you
>>23836651Another great example of why never to go to reddit ever for any reason.
>>23836640His death has to mean something or his entire character is pointless. I don't believe Gurm would have him exist just for dumb Arianne bullshit chapters. Maybe Dorne will receive news of his death that makes it seem like Dany is a huge cunt? They already suspect she murdered Viserys for the crown.
>>23836309i think gurm meant for Jon to truly die, which is part of his "bittersweet" ending. the show keeping him alive beyond the wall was just fanservice to help cope with the shit endings of other characters.in my headcanon Jon is king and Sansa is queen at the end
>>23836766that's true and it sets up a fucking spin off show lmao
>>23836609>I have been at work in my winter garden. Things are growing… and changing, as does happen with us gardeners. Things twist, things change, new ideas come to me (thank you, muse), old ideas prove unworkable, I write, I rewrite, I restructure, I rip everything apart and rewrite again, I go through doors that lead nowhere, and doors that open on marvels.
Shipping and it's consequences were a disaster for ASoIaF community (as they are for all book/show communities).
>>23836824imagine not enjoying matchmaking in a medieval fantasy where marriages play a vital role not only in politics but also in blood prophecieswhat a barbaric pleb of a retard you are anon...
>>23836740Dany will be forced to ally with the Ironborn because Dorne won't back her now. Allying with the Ironborn means allying with Euron. Quentyn's plotline seems irrelevant at first but the way he died signifies a darker turn for Dany's character
>>23836824This, especially the retarded Jonsa vs Jonerys debate that was imported from the later seasons of the TV show because Dabid&Dabid had to make every female character into a girlboss and every pair of girlbosses fight each other (Meera-Osha, Cersei-Marg, Arya-Yara, Sansa-Dany) and then female fans started self-inserting as one or the other to get into Kit Harington's pants.
>>23836842Well the one guy who tried to live out fanfiction in the story ended up literally tanking the Seven Kingdoms and his whole dynasty before dying like a tard.
>>23836824>Paying attention to these peopleIt's a choice, they are easily ignored.
Where is Beric Dondarrion?
>>23836878we have the advantage of being outside observers with extensive knowledge of pretty much all characters and plots and can act in accordance with that knowledge. Unlike a character inside the world. So it's hardly comparable
>>23836824Thankfully shippingtards seem to put all their focus on Fire and Blood slop, so I don’t have to deal with it. ASOIAF is a pretty male-dominated fandom anyways, so there’s a lot emphasis on shipping than other communities.
>>23835147I feel like Arya is the kind of girl you get excited for when dating because you feel like you hit the femdom jackpot and then she's the most boring deadfish sub ever.
>>23836974>we have the advantage of being outside observers with extensive knowledge of pretty much all characters and plots Ahahahahahaha, hahahahaha, aaahahahahaha~
>>23837016Arya works hard at everything she starts learning, so she'd get good at that too.
>>23837022anon.. are you retarded?
>>23836966wherever whores go...
Hi guys. I just received this letter... how do I answer without sounding mad?
i love that lil' midget Tyrion so much. Any more books with characters with his archetype? i don't mean being absolutely tiny but being Machiavellian and cunning
>>23837101Tell him you're real happy for him, or sorry it happened, but ask for more men to man the Wall
>>23837071Nigga we don't even know half of what Rhaegar knew.
>>23835626>https://warosu.org/lit/thread/23318368#p23342320>>23835682Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Pretty interesting theory
>>23837139it doesn't matter, we know the consequences as observers
>>23837127lmao. this, this so much
>>23837202I don’t really support or care about Jonsa, but another funny tidbit that someone pointed out is that, in AGoT, Sansa wishes for a hero to rescue her and slay Janos Slynt and a few books later in ADwD Jon beheads Slynt. So she may indeed sploosh in her smallclothes when she realizes.I always thought that Slynt got the short-end of the stick though and didn’t deserve to be sent to the Wall. He wasn’t even betraying Ned Stark (technically a traitor) from his perspective.
>>23836268Snails are so cute
>>23836454If Shadow of the Erdtree is anything to go by? Yes. People (“fans”) have become so entitled up their own ass, that if anything doesn’t align with their retarded fan fiction theorizing their hearts will stop.David Lightbringer is probably going to commit suicide, since his GEotD autism is just that cringe and bad and retarded.
>>23837101Who wrote the Pink Letter? Roose? Mance? Stannis? Genuinely Ramsay? Or someone else?I like the idea that the only person who isn't presented in a riddle/title is Mance, and that's because the author is Mance trying to pass on information to Tormund who's feigning illiteracy.
Siege of Kings landing>Cersei: "Where's my son?">"The castle gatehouse.">"Bring him inside Maegor's now.">"No!" Lancel was so angry he forgot to keep his voice down. Heads turned toward them as he shouted, "We'll have the Mud Gate all over again. Let him stay where he is, he's the king—">"He's my son." Cersei Lannister rose to her feet. "You claim to be a Lannister as well, cousin, prove it. Osfryd, why are you standing there? Now means today.">Osfryd Kettleblack hurried from the hall, his brother with him. Many of the guests were rushing out as well. Some of the women were weeping, some praying. Others simply remained at the tables and called for more wine. "Cersei," Ser Lancel pleaded, "if we lose the castle, Joffrey will be killed in any case, you know that. Let him stay, I'll keep him by me, I swear—">"Get out of my way." Cersei slammed her open palm into his wound. Ser Lancel cried out in pain and almost fainted as the queen swept from the room. She spared Sansa not so much as a glance. She's forgotten me. Ser Ilyn will kill me and she won't even think about it.>"Oh, gods," an old woman wailed. "We're lost, the battle's lost, she's running." Several children were crying. They can smell the fear. Sansa found herself alone on the dais. Should she stay here, or run after the queen and plead for her life?>She never knew why she got to her feet, but she did. "Don't be afraid," she told them loudly. "The queen has raised the drawbridge. This is the safest place in the city. There's thick walls, the moat, the spikes . . .">"What's happened?" demanded a woman she knew slightly, the wife of a lesser lordling. "What did Osney tell her? Is the king hurt, has the city fallen?">"Tell us," someone else shouted. One woman asked about her father, another her son.>Sansa raised her hands for quiet. "Joffrey's come back to the castle. He's not hurt. They're still fighting, that's all I know, they're fighting bravely. The queen will be back soon." The last was a lie, but she had to soothe them. She noticed the fools standing under the galley. "Moon Boy, make us laugh.">Moon Boy did a cartwheel, and vaulted on top of a table. He grabbed up four wine cups and began to juggle them. Every so often one of them would come down and smash him in the head. A few nervous laughs echoed through the hall. Sansa went to Ser Lancel and knelt beside him. His wound was bleeding afresh where the queen had struck him. "Madness," he gasped. "Gods, the Imp was right, was right . . .">"Help him," Sansa commanded two of the serving men. One just looked at her and ran, flagon and all. Other servants were leaving the hall as well, but she could not help that. Together, Sansa and the serving man got the wounded knight back on his feet. "Take him to Maester Frenken." Lancel was one of them, yet somehow she still could not bring herself to wish him dead. I am soft and weak and stupid, just as Joffrey says. I should be killing him, not helping him.
>>23837458RIP to the soldier who didn’t get to rape Tommen because the Lannisters ended up winning
>>23837458>Lancel was one of them, yet somehow she still could not bring herself to wish him dead. I am soft and weak and stupid, just as Joffrey says. I should be killing him, not helping him.NO SANSA! IT MAKES YOU STRONG! YOU ARE STRONG AND BRAVE!
>>23837450In my opinion Roose. He uses Ramsay as a scapegoat to mask his own cruelty. He wanted to antagonize Jon into doing something foolish because he knows Jon could have been legitimized by Robb or Stannis, and he doesn't want any Starks to remain alive
>>23837101>>23837450>>23837488I think Ramsey actually wrote it and he's losing his collectively shit over the loss of "Arya" because that's the only way to rally the north around him with that oppurtunity gone now he has nothing. Winterfell is lost and so is the support and backing of the north, he's grasping at straws trying to hold onto power that will no longer be his.
>>23837450I’ve treated Mance being the author of the Pink Letter as being practically canon ever since that Preston video came out. Makes too much sense - trying to draw the wildlings south and all that.
>>23836624Burn it all to the ground, essos is trash
>>23837420Huh. Funny enough I was thinking about that same exact scene of Jon beheading Janos Slynt yesterday. That's pretty interesting. If that wasn't planned on Grrm's part that's a funny coinky-dink
>>23835482The former, but he doesnt have the skill to pull it off.
I'm disappointed Marcher Lords don't have Dornishmen's heads as their sigils.
What if GRRM was a busty 43-year old woman and the constant references to big, brown nipples was just her flexing that she has them.
>>23835682just autistically read through all this, it checks out, im a jonsa believer
>>23837420>I always thought that Slynt got the short-end of the stick though and didn’t deserve to be sent to the Wall.He literally had people killed for trying to expose his corruption, among other things.>“Two men who were prepared to come forward died suddenly on their rounds.” Stannis narrowed his eyes. “Do not trifle with me, my lord. I saw the proof Jon Arryn laid before the small council. If I had been king you would have lost more than your office, I promise you, but Robert shrugged away your little lapses.Not to mention the infanticide.>He wasn’t even betraying Ned Stark (technically a traitor) from his perspective.Ned was the rightful regent. Robert named him before he died and even if Joffrey had been legitimate he would have had no authority to change that as a minor. Janos watched Cersei tear up Robert's will.There's contrarianism, and then there's defending fucking Janos Slynt.
>>23837974I’m just looking out for the little guy trying to make it in this world of self-important nobles, who will use you and then discard you for their petty political games. I did forget about the corruption though.
>>23837974>defending fucking Janos Slynt.It's more popular than you would think. Just type his name on google accompanied by 'beheading'.
>>23836309jon going beyond the wall makes sense but i really hated it and hope that changes
>>23838164idk, Jon becoming King-beyond-the-Wall is kinda cool. less so if he's just some dude
>implying Jon isn't the night king>implying Arya's endgame isn't assassinating him with Needle to end the story
>>23838248Maybe Arya will marry Jon and become the Night Queen
Why do normies love Tywin so much? Did they skim over the part where he had his son's wife gang raped for being a commoner?Or was that not included in the show adaptation?
>>23838181>becomingHe already is unofficially. Most of the notable wildling chieftains and warriors swore their swords and oaths to him when passing the wall. Here's my favorite:>The warrior witch Morna removed her weirwood mask just long enough to kiss his gloved hand and swear to be his man or his woman, whichever he preferred.
>>23838296>normiesNormalfag detected.Tywin is literally the most respectable, one of the most intelligent characters in the entire series. There is nothing but to admire about his character>where he had his son's wife gang raped for being a commoner?Based.
>>23838296https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z76l53LukE8It was in the show. people either forgot or don't care because it's charles dance
>>23838348Can't see much respectability in getting cucked by Aerys tho.
>>23838296For the same reasons normies think characters like Gendo from Evangelion are ''badass'', they completely fail to see beyond the surface level ''alpha 4D chess strategist'' into the insecure, pathetic, miserable fucks they truly are. >whaaaaa my dad was weak>whaaaaa my wife is dead>whaaaaa my son is a dwarf>whaaaaa I'm getting BTFO by a 15 year old save me Walder Frey
>>23838359Nice headcanon
>>23836824George himself is a shipper thoughbeit
>>23838378>“I want to know. I never knew my father. I want to know everything about him. The good and … the rest.”“As you command.” The white knight chose his words with care. “Prince Aerys … as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord’s right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the … the liberties your father took during the bedding.” His face reddened. “I have said too much, Your Grace. I~"He's Robert's parallel. Man who never wanted to be king and became one and one who always wanted to be king and never will be. Honorable intuitive leader and amoral rational manipulator. And the key part here is the classic triangle - a King a Queen a Jack. They both had their brides taken from them by a Targ, because a Dragon takes what he wants. Robert slew the dragon for his one true love and took his crown. Tywin sucked it up and raised a bastard he hated, because doing otherwise at the time would be iNcOnViNiEnT - defying Aerys would rUiN hIs MaGnIfIcEnT pLaNs, so he hushed it up and raised a deformed bastard as his own, hating him as the trophy of his own humiliation that he was. But the reality of it is that Tywin's simply a coward.
>>23838394You are aware that you're reinforcing my point, right?
>>23838414Come to think of it>"had his son's wife gang raped for being a commoner"Some weird-ass fatherly guidance>"turn out that Aerys' abominable spawn is just as lecherous as the old madman - well I'll do to him what Aerys did to me. Twice, actually"Now it makes perfect sense.
>>23838414>>23838426If Tyrion was Aerys's bastard and Tywin knew, why would Tywin give him a Lannister name like Tyrion?Tywin believes Tyrion to be his son, he's just a really shitty father
>>23838418George likes and approves of my OTP so I can't say anything bad about him shipping wise.
The Twins are the Mad King's sons, Tyrion is Tywin's only son.
>>23838477>If Tyrion was Aerys's bastard and Tywin knew, why would Tywin give him a Lannister name like Tyrion?Because he needed to act like he's an autismo who doesn't know what happened and is a perfectly loyal Hand to his great king, or Aerys' paranoia wold see him skinny-dipping in a vat of wildfire instead of marrying Rhaegar and Cersei as Tywin was plotting to do at the time.
>>23838503Naturally, but Tywin thinks it's the other way around.
>>23838519>Tywin names a secret bastard he's raising "Tyrion" to quell his ruler's rampant paranoia>one generation down, Bronn of Blackwater names an incredibly obvious bastard he's raising "Tyrion". It drastically inflames his ruler's rampant paranoia. Poetry~
>>23838529KEKBeautiful.
You now remember Cersei wearing a Rhaegar cosplay to Robert's funeral.>The queen wore a high-collared black silk gown, with a hundred dark red rubies sewn into her bodice, covering her from neck to bosom. They were cut in the shape of teardrops, as if the queen were weeping blood.
>>23835147arya would be a such a sub, and sansa too. noble woman are just inherently made to get fucked by alpha males
>>23838550>obsessed with her half-brother, Rhaegar>has been in a sexual relationship with her brother since puberty>basically raped her cousin when her brother wasn't availableIs Cersei the Targest Targaryan to ever Targ?
Tyrion is a villain!
>>23838503No. Cersei, Jaime und Tyrion are Tywin’s children. Fuck the insane theories.
>>23836740tells us that the pov characters that don't have their chapters with their name are doomed to die
>>23838477>Tywin believes Tyrion to be his son, he's just a really shitty fatherHe had a billion causes to go balls to the wall on Jaime - starting from Jaime volunteering for the Kingsguard which scattered Tywin's entire line of succession, on to the twincest that he was aware of, and down to tryinf and failing to kill Bran because they suck at being discreet about it. Yet he never did, because he's not a hardass father - he's more of a cowardly cuck than Tytos ever was.
>>23838565>Is Cersei the Targest Targaryan to ever Targ?Not without a dragon, sadly.
>>23838503Maybe Cersei and Jaime were twins of different fathers. It's rare but possible.In ASOS Jaime keeps comparing himself in his inner monologues to a Targaryen prince marrying his sister, but when he actually reunites with Cersei and tells her his idea of marrying her openly she is disgusted by it. She was only engaging in incest as a way to spite Robert and the gods but never genuinely loved Jaime.Cersei and Tyrion both take after Tywin in different ways while Jaime is the odd one out in his family. Jaime's dreams also seem prophetic in nature while Cersei's dreams just seem like typical nightmares
Tywin Lannisters has 3 children. End of story, dumb fucks.
>>23838589But their incest started way before Robert, since their early teenage years. And both Jamie and Cersei try hard to emulate Tywin: Cersei is a complete failure at Kings Landing, of course, but even Jamie will ultimately fail in that regard since he lacks the ruthlessness of Tywin and would not be willing to break his oath to Catelyn of not taking arms against the Tullys if Edmure called his bluff. Not to mention that it was all for nothing, since the Blackfish (or the BWB) will ambush the convoy to Casterly Rock and free Edmure (Jayne Westerling is a strong contender for prologue POV, and death). I'm not sugesting that Tyrion was perfect when he had real power on his hands as HotK, he made several mistakes that came back to bite him in the ass in ASOS, but even then I think he was on a whole other level compared to the twins, his downfall was his lack of experience and his Achilles heel of Shae.
>>23838578He spoils Jaime because he wants Jaime to be his heir. He abuses Tyrion because he's ashamed of having a dwarf as a son
>>23838602>Tywin Lannisters has 3 children.Yes - 3 bastards from 3 different whores. Sailor's Wife is one of them.
I still don't understand why the fuck Tyrion managed to convince himself that Shae gave a shit about him. All through the story, every time he tells her something like "we have to be subtle about our relationship or my father will kill you" she immediately starts whining about not getting silk and jewels anymore.
>“We all dream of things we cannot have. Tywin dreamed that his son would be a great knight, that his daughter would be a queen. He dreamed they would be so strong and brave and beautiful that no one would ever laugh at them.” “I am a knight,” he told her, “and Cersei is a queen.” A tear rolled down her cheek.inb4 it's about his wishes coming true in the worst way possible and not bringing him the satisfaction he expected. Come on, don't act like the Germ is above writing stuff like this with a more direct, literal meaning, as a hint or foreshadowing. The spirit of Johanna Lannister appeared to Jaime in a dream and revealed that Tywin never got his wish, because the twins are not his. It's incredibly simple and straightforward compared to the mental gymnastics needed to deny it.
>>23838637Shae is a retarded common whore and Tyrion is a simp desperate for love and affection. It's not that deep.
>>23838637>>23838650Shae was probably a spy for Varys. She was able to manipulate Tyrion's ego because Varys could read Tyrion like a book.
What is the significance of all 3 having mothers that die birthing them?
>>23838668That's an interesting idea, but how would Varys anticipate Tyrion getting into that very specific situation, miles away, and having Bronn snatch a random whore from another minor knight in the army camp? Its all too convenient.
>>23838673Varys doesn't plant them - he recruits them.
>>23838678Fair enough. In this case, why did Varys allow her to testify against Tyrion in the trial? I don't believe he truly wanted Tyrion dead at that point, for the same reason he didn't want Ned dead: he needed more time for Aegon.
>>23838647It's in his head. She's crying because Jaime knows he's coping. He's a crippled and dishonourable knight and Cersei is Queen of bastards, and they're both ridiculed constantly. Tywin got his wish, but it was poisoned.
The /tv/ general died :(
>>23838671Something something Nissa Nissa, something something the prince has three heads.
>>23838806This. That's about a thousand times more effective than "they were the Mad King's bastards lol"
>>23838807I miss when we were /tg/ refugees
>>23836966wih R'hllor
>>23838550>middle-aged woman cosplays Maleficenthot, I dislike Cercei less now
> Theon found himself wondering if he should say a prayer. Will the old gods hear me if I do? They were not his gods, had never been his gods. He was ironborn, a son of Pyke, his god was the Drowned God of the islands... but Winterfell was long leagues from the sea. It had been a lifetime since any god had heard him. He did not know who he was, or what he was, why he was still alive, why he had ever been born.> "Theon," a voice seemed to whisper. His head snapped up. "Who said that?" All he could see were the trees and the fog that covered them. The voice had been as faint as rustling leaves, as cold as hate. A god's voice, or a ghost's. How many died the day that he took Winterfell? How many more the day he lost it? The day that Theon Greyjoy died, to be reborn as Reek. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with shriek.> Suddenly he did not want to be here.Well done, GRRM, well done. I can understand his desire to not write anymore.
>>23839569i dont get it
>>23839569>Who said that?Bran?
>>23838296I, for one, hate Tywin for hiring degenerates on his side.
>>23838350Its not in the show properly, because they never revealed that she WASN'T a whore that Jaime hired.Which not only diminishes the entire thing, but cuts out the moment between Jaime and Tyrion where Jaime tells him the truth.
>>23839576The Brave Companionth are the greatetht merthenary company in Wetheroth
>>23839581Oh, and I forgot the worst thing that leaving it out does: ruins Tywin's death.We don't get "wherever whores go." Instead, Tyrion kills Tywin for calling SHAE a whore. Which she literally was.This sucks just because it isn't "wherever whores go" but also because it makes Tywin out to be less evil than he is in the books. He knew that Tysha was just a commoner girl who loved Tyrion, and he still had her raped. If the audience thinks Tysha was an actual whore, the natural conclusion they'll come to is "well she basically just did her job and got paid well for it" or that she was in on the whole thing all along.
>tfw you have zero plot armor
>>23839569It doesn't mean much. GRRM time travel is closed loop so anything Bran "changes" has already happened in the current timeline.
>>23839700IMO, the center of the passage is>How many died the day that he took Winterfell? How many more the day he lost it?
>>23839724so GRRM doesn't wanna write anymore because he killed off characters in Winterfell?
>>23839630Ser Amory Lorch!
>>23839752If you think about it, Mikken is the key to everything.
>>23839630imagine it being over before it even began. Martell-spawn really just have no purpose but dying pointlessly.
>>23839767Mikken is alright, what are they gonna do without Barth the brewer and Rodrik Cassel?
I think Jaime I from adwd is my favorite chapter.It has distinct characters from different backgrounds who talk about their past and histories from their own perspectives. It makes the world feel real and lived in. It also continues to showcase the of consequences of war which I really like
>>23839956damn, I know it's costly, but it would be really fucking nice to see those locations on screen
>>23839756Torn to pieces by a bear, after being paraded around naked and begging for mercy. GRRM is good at giving monsters a fitting end
>>23839956Jaime travelling around the Riverlands, lifting sieges, reminiscing, and becoming a better man is so good it's unbelievable.
>>23840002>GRRM is good at giving monsters a fitting end.I agree. Then the monster who fed this monster got chopped piece by piece another monster.Why did Amory beg for mercy?
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/ASongOfIceAndFireHouseClegane
>>23840079Because he didn't want to be fed alive to a bear while the bloody mummers watched on?>Amory was responsible for the murder of the three-year old Princess Rhaenys Targaryen during the Sack of King's Landing. He dragged the screaming toddler from under her father Rhaegar's bed, and when she kicked him, stabbed her dozens of times.One of the few truly evil men in the story with no redeeming qualities or justifiable motives. Like the Mountain, Daario, Euron, sweetling
>>23840220>tvtropes Shan't
>>23840405Please do.
>>23840298Amory feared for his life and well-being. He wanted to live. Don’t forget Vargo Hoat, Mago, Mero, darling.
>>23834907LOTRcuck detectd.
>>23840002>>23840298>>23840436>Waaah based Westerman killed some mongrelets waaah he deserved to die waahGo back to where you came from.
>>23840436>darlingSweaty, woman redditor hands typed this
>>23840612What? Take your medication, retarded schizo fuck.
>>23838637Tyrion throughout the book constantly chides himself for "falling for it". So he still "believes" her against his better judgement.
>>23840624>Sweaty, woman redditor hands typed thisNo. Also obsessed little incel you are :)
Is George regretting making Renly gay?House Baratheon is basically extinct nowIf Renly had some babies with Margaery they could have lived on
>>23840651No, he did it on purpose.
>>23840638>incelEven if you were a man, you're still a roastie at heart.
>>23840651our boy Edric Storm will be legitimised
>>23840607GRRM is a "LOTRcuck" you gimp.
>>23840664But why?
>>23840612Wow so fucking edgy dude. Baby killer so based. Nigga kys.
>>23840612Posts like this should warrant perma bans
>Outside, Jon looked up at the Wall shining in the sun, the melting ice creeping down its side in a hundred thin fingers. Jon's rage was such that he would have smashed it all in an instant, and the world be damned.You thought it was going to be the horn of winter? How about the very man tasked with defending the wall instead?
>>23836629they faced some hard snows, burned her, soldiers started deserting then 20 good men burned the supplies and a battle the.next day finished them off.
>>23840822I agree.
>>23840651>>23840672Yeah, Edric will likely inherit.Davos saved House Baratheon.
>>23840842Based Davos. He deserved that Stormlander wife.
>>23840612I don't get it.
>>23841090That anon is just an edgy teenager:>>23838348He's mad because I made fun of his idol here:>>23838371Just leave him, he's going through a phase.
>>23834907>>23840607>>23840698I like both.While lotr is more thenatically and theologically consistent, and has an mich more of an epic quality to it (and an ending) I like asoiaf slightly better because of the flawed characters dealing with ambiguous conflicts, making them more relatable for me.It's a bit like comparing DC and Marvel. Or so I've heard, I don't read comics.
I rose too high, loved too hard, dared too much. I tried to grasp a star, overreached, and fell.
>>23841110I have no idea what's going on.
>>23840787Because you're fucking gay
>>23841234not surprising
>>23838296Some of it is Charles Dance being a great actor, some of it is the showrunners misunderstanding the character and making him a "tough but fair", if ruthlessly pragmatic patriarch rather than a petty, raging hypocrite. They literally called him "lawful neutral" in interviews.What gets me is that in the books Stannis is exactly the kind of character they made Tywin into but they treated Stannis like shit and took away most of his best moments.
>>23841114Lancel is joining the Holy Hundred, right? Seems the logical next step for the character. He is a more twisted Bonifer.>>23841537Tbf Tywin as a character in the show is pretty interesting. Book Tywin is better as a means to develop the other Lannisters, but show Tywin is someone you want to see more. Loved the Arya-Tywin scenes.
>>23841537To be fair they went a long way swapping Roose out for Tywin at Harrenhall in the show. They even used Roose's dialogue with Reek about saying my lord vs m'lord and gave it to Tywin to say to Arya. Point is, "Good dad Tywin" in the show was built off his scenes with Arya. They're fundamentally different characters. They're both good, but you just have to acknowledge they're different.
is gurm's wife sick for real?would he go on a tour to europe if she was sick?
>>23838350>I can't wait to see how Dinklage acts the scene of Jaime's confession in book 3>posted 11 years agoThat's genuinely terrible
>>23841333Well you’re a fucking faggot incel!
I love both versions of Tywin Lannister.
>Ramsay is a foil to Jon / Ramsay is a mirror version of Jon (but bad)>so they need to meet at some point and even fight in a big battlePeople actually believe stupid shit like this.
>>23834916sansa. She would literally let you do anything.
>>23842023>a red-haired piece of ass doing whatever you wantHnnnghhh based.
>>23835843in must be wild to be an eceleb chained to the corpse of ASOIAF stuck making content on the same theories for an ever shrinking audience
>>23842070This is his just fun side-gig that he low-effort posts on every so often - I mean, his ongoing video series is just him reading AGoT and dishing out the insights of someone who’s read the series 20 times. Not really his fault at this point, not just him but the rest of the community has exhausted everything there is to talk about after 12 years of waiting. But it’s not as if he ever tried making his channel his main bread and butter. I’m not even sure that he has a patreon and if he does, never even shills it. I wish we still had others YouTubers like him, with a normal job sustaining them so they don’t have to chase after stupid trends and beg for donations for 20% of the video’s runtime.
>>23836609If we ever see if, my money was always on inhuman, time manipulating God-Emperor of Westeros, Bran. Martin's a Dune fan and Bran feels very Leto II to me.
I can never be free of showtards even in bookfag spaces.
>>23842098>normal jobhe works for the "state department".
>>23842116Even if he has an embassy posting (I think he might have been in Taiwan a few years ago), that’s probably still just a normie, boring job. Basic media officers, finance officers, or even he’s doing something more prestigious that he had to earn with the foreign service tests, that means he’s just some run-of-the-mill political analyst or intelligence officer that sends back a report to Washington every month that is read by 5 people at most.
Varys is a Tyrell agent and his goal is to marry Faegon into House Tyrell therefore granting them the status of royalty
>>23834916Shireen.
>>23842134>embassy posting (I think he might have been in Taiwan a few years ago)that is his wife. he took a leave to stay with her.he says he's an auditor. he talked about what auditing is and gave an example of making sure the money that the US gives is being used for the correct project.but the fucker knows too much about the middle east and their religion. i am with the theory that he is a spook.
>>23842154I just think he’s well-read. He was also blathering about the Julio-Claudian dynasty on his last stream (but didn’t a later emperor Elegabalus?). Seemed to have his Plato as well. A lot of references over the year that show he isn’t just an ASOIAF autist.
>>23842241i believe all cia officers are well read.after all, he himself says that cia agents are people of the target country recruited by cia officers to do the US' bidding.
>>23836624Danny's forces succeed but just barely, she comes back and has all the nobles of Mereen burned by her dragon. Flies off on Drogon with her other two following and burns Yunkai, New Ghis and Qarth to the ground. Meanwhile her Dothraki horde marches and her armies take Victarions fleets to attack Volantis whose slaves rise up for her. The other free cities submit (except Bravos). She's now the (nearly) uncontested master of Essos.Arya is then sent to kill her.
>>23836766It’ll be halfway between dany and stoneheart. Hopefully he’ll have red irises and like black nails and blue lips shit would be cash.
https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/09/24/mary-margaret-in-the-mojave/>REEEEEEE I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR SHITTY SHORT FILM GEORGE
>>23838477Tywins wife was his cousin, so Tyrion is still half Lannister.
>>23842406Yeah but if he was cuckolded by Aerys, I don't think he would give Aerys's bastard a prestigious Lannister name
>>23842387This is the first theory for Dany's story I likeHer returning to Westeros and saving the world is cringeHer returning to Westeros and burning everything down for no reason is cringeHer staying in Essos to rebuild the Valyrian Empire is cool
>>23842387Volantis' election will save the city imo.Whoever is elected will surrender to her.More interested in what Illyrio would make of Dany picking up free cities like his.
TIL the Ironborn are an expy of orcs> According to their faith, the ironborn are a race apart from the common run of mankind. “We did not come to these holy islands from godless lands across the seas,” the priest Sauron Salt-Tongue once said. “We came from beneath those seas, from the watery halls of the Drowned God who made us in his likeness and gave to us dominion over all the waters of the earth.”
Just read about Götz von Berlichingen.What if Jaime is forced to join the BWB?
Littlefinger's "War of Three Queens" prophecy refers to Sansa, Margaery, and MelisandreHe plans to crown Sansa queen at Harrenhall so he can secede the Riverlands and Vale from the Iron Throne, and gain a claim over the North.He suspects Varys's plan involves strengthening the Tyrells and marrying Margaery to Aegon, legitimizing both as rulers of Westeros and ushering in a populist government that cares for the smallfolk.The third queen is probably Melisandre. It's no secret Baelish dislikes Stannis so he's cynically referring to Melisandre as the power behind the throne.
>>23842789I don't think Stoneheart will settle for anything less than Jaime's death. She believes Jaime was the architect behind the Red Wedding because of what Roose Bolton said when he stabbed Robb
>>23842725reminds me of Spartan culture, they thought of themselves as foreign to Greek people
>>23842858>they thought of themselves as foreign to Greek peopleThey kinda were, as all Hellenes who migrated into Mycenaean territory some time after the Bronze Age Collapse. The LARP comes in that Lacedaemonians pretended like they are the one and only TRVE gigabased Dorian Conquerors from the Heracleidae blood, while both their helots and literally everyone else in Greece were most certainly definitely not Dorian or Hellenic whatsoever trust me bro, but rather descendants of le soft weak pre-Hellenic Mycenaean population and therefore inferior.
>>23842858>the only cool and interesting grekoids are the ones who denied being grekoidsreally makes you think..
An ASOIAF based naval action vidya called "SELLSAIL" where you sail between ports trading and fighting pirates from Ib to Asshai.A lot like "Man O' War: Corsair."Just a thought.
>>23838678yeah he literally meets shae 1 on 1 and tyrion walks in on them chatting in the brothel in one of the first chapters of ACOK
>>23841114How can you not like both if you enjoy fantasy?
>>23838164>>23838181>>23838340If the Wall falls, this title kind of loses its meaning. The two societies would merge sooner or later, and Westeros would probably occupy the new lands.>>23842725Note how the Greyjoy names also often rhyme with "Sauron."
>>23843176if anyone rhymes theon with sauron i will kill them
>>23843030>the only cool and interesting You meant "the most explicitly pederastic".
>>23843062From the descriptions in the books, the ships that ply the seas of Planetos are either strange galleys more or less like these or oversized medieval cogs.
>>23843221Forgot the pic.
>>23843062>naval action game>exclusively about pre-gunpowder ships Surely there are countless exciting ways of pressing X to board, unless you staple a shitty tactics/action game to it to make boarding action more than just a button press.
>>23841090You’re not supposed to get mentally ill posts posted by underaged retards on the internet
>>23843192>I WILL kill that man. I don't care how many arrows they feather me with, how many spears they run through me, I will kill that rhythming cunt before I fall.Pic related: this anon, probably
JonxSatin ROFL XD
>>23844128Satin would be crucial in helping the Night's Watch to relieve stress
What would Jon Snow think of the Riverlands smallfolk if he fought besides Robb Stark and their Northern/Rivermen army?
>>23844281>if he fought besides RobbI am convinced Bloodraven would never allow Jon to go south. Remember Jon's horse snorting so his friends could discover him hiding in the forest when he ran from the watch? Remember Ghost randomly appearing to remind Jon of the old gods just when he was about to accept Stannis' offer? Remember the raven influencing the election? I bet Bloodraven was behind the mutiny too somehow because his great great great great great nephew being a zombie makes his plans easier. Also just realised Melantha Blackwood was the wife of Jon's maternal grandfather's grandfather while Betha Blackwood was the wife of Jon's paternal grandfather's grandfather. Yeah, the half Blackwood tree wizard is definitely deeply invested in this kid. Bran too. They're both pet projects.
>>23843193that's all grekoids equally. romans too
>>23844458What are you talking? Jon Snow is the son of Ned Stark and some Bracken maiden that Ned despoiled during the war.
fat pink masts jutting into myrish swamps
>still a fat fuck despite years at wall (only explanation is stealing rations)>completely incompetent, has gotten good men killed, only redeeming quality is being able to read and write lmao>killed maester aemon with his stupidity>tempted dareon into breaking his vows and deserting>broke his own vows>boring pov chaptersWe can only hope he gets Pate'd.
>>23845225I hope Pate gets another pov chapter
>>23845225>still a fat fuck despite years at wall (only explanation is stealing rations)not if you can basically eat as much as you like on the wall.in my country, you can eat as much as you like in the military while at the base. deployed troops get shafted with rations though.
>>23845240or at least Fatty stumbling on him from time to time, that would be cool
>>23845225He's probably the least likely character to die unfortunately. I'm glad he got sent to Hogwarts so maybe his story will become more interesting>>23845240Bad news anon
>>23844593>implying grrm would have br*cken art in his house
>>23839586KEK
>When asked about ideal casting choices, George formally endorsed the idea of Nicole Kidman playing Cersei. He says she has the perfect look for her. But it would never work because where are you going to find a guy that looks like her to play Jaime? - George R.R. Martin, So Spake Martin
>>23845604George is deranged, Nicole Kidman is 100% Catelyn Stark.
>>23845225I hate how GRRM frames Daeron as being a scumbag for breaking his vows and deserting the NW and frames Fat Pink Mast as being totally OK. >but Sam didn't abandon his brothers, Daeron didSo what? Daeron was unjustly accused of rape, then coerced into making a vow to give his life for the NW. You would need to be on some advanced stage of Stockholm syndrome to feel any loyalty towards that fucked up institution.>but he knew about the Others being a real threat to WesterosNot his problem. Fuck Westeros. Fuck the NW.
>>23845725every brother fucks girls.the problem is siring of children or marrying i think.Daeron deserted. fat pink mast did not.
>>23845750...I already addressed that. If I'm falsely accused, beaten, dragged through the cold, desolate North all the way to the Wall, then coerced into pledging my life to them or have my dick cut off...then they WON'T have my undying life-long loyalty. Does that sound absurd or immoral to you?
>>23845759Daeron is framed as shit through Arya's PoV.Arya doesn't know his backstory.this is intentional by gurm to evoke what you're feeling right now.
>>23845316This looks so bad. I’m not even gay but I hate how 80% of humans, and especially 95% of men have no fucking clue how to decorate their homes and just put up framed pictures on every wall, or worst even, they buy a suit of armor even though they live in Arizona and don’t realize how goofy it looks.
>>23845783>Arya when women are forced into certain standards by society: “grrr this is evil, I don’t want to be a lady and they can’t force me >:(”>Arya when Night’s Watchmen are forced into certain standards by society: “yes this is normal, there is no problem with this :)”I hate this stupid hypocrite character.
>>23845783I don't think that was his intent. He framed Daeron as a piece of shit in Arya's PoV to make his assassination seem justified, as a deserter from the NW. Yes, it is supposed to be disturbing that a child is that comfortable with murder, but the Germ made sure to balance that by making her assassinate ''a bad guy''.
>>23845800You and me both, anon. Fuck that stupid little gremlin cunt. Sansa was always the better sister anyway.
>>23845725>threat to WesterosWhy were the five forts built? Why are there yitish legends of the sun hiding its face for a lifetime?
>>23845820Are you suggesting Daeron knew any of that? For all we know he didn't even thought the Others were a real threat even to Westeros, that the Wildlings were the real threat. There is still that gigantic magic wall there. This reminds me that Jon's actions seem even more irrational and destructive when none of the wachmen have any reason to believe the Others have the means to cross the Wall. Readers side with Jon due to a Doylist perspective that they are not consciously aware of: the Others MUST have some random McGuffin to breach the Wall, or else there won't be any payoff to the story. But from the Watchmen's perspective, why shouldn't they inundate and then freeze the passageways to prevent any chance of a breach? iirc Othell Yarwick suggests this.
>>23845788>they buy a suit of armor even though they live in Arizona and don’t realize how goofy it looks.elaborate
>>23845879Just take a tour of the reddit page “Male Living Space” to see what I mean. A suit of armor would look goofy even in a European faux castle, so why do some Americans convince themselves it’s going to look good in their house?
George RR fartin
>>23845930That's a cool fucking ship
>>23845930If you want to see some real crazy shit, google "american castle house".
>>23845961i've always wanted to build a castle as a housebut i wanted an actual castle layout 4 walls with a keep on one side.>>23845930ngl, i see no issue.i feel it's a bit crammed but i'm more of a desk for the PC, a wardrobe and somewhere to sleep type of guy.
>>23845806idk.gurm shoves oaths being meaningless down the reader's throat at every opportunity.he even has Jaime think this> I wonder what the High Septon would have to say about the sanctity of oaths sworn while dead drunk, chained to a wall, with a sword pressed to your chest?he SHOULD be aware that Daeron is getting shafted.
>>23846020That's a really good point, but then why did he make Daeron so unlikeable? And framed him as a soldier abandoning his brothers in arms at the most critical time? And made Arya seem like an instrument of ''justice''?
>>23846032i told you.ASOIAF being PoV based and unreliable narrator stuff make it so the author can chicken out of almost anything and practically write what he likes.Daeron being shit is mainly from Arya's PoV who doesn't know his backstory.but part of it is also from Sam's PoV. Sam is too invested in Aemon and can't see that he's dying but Daeron can and tells him so i think doesn't he give sam money?i can't remember those chapters but i can remember Sam wailing and being a faggot and wanting Daeron to come with him for some reason.
>>23846070While he does have a lot of leeway though the PoV system and how each character perceives and judges Daeron through their own lens, the words and actions of Daeron are still shown in an objective manner, and I can't shake the idea that Gurm intended the readers to despise him. That being said, you're mostly correct, we don't have to agree with the PoV of any of the characters or the ''intent'' of the author. Daeron did nothing wrong.
>>23845725>>23845759>>23846020Daeron is a scumbag because when he fell into a fucked up situation, Jon was nice him, helped him and then trusted him. It was not Jon that that fucked that noble daughter and not Jon who forced Daeron to take the black, but it's Jon and the rest of his brothers that Daeron betrays. Dude could not be tied by any vows whatsoever and he would still be an asshole.
>>23846090>this dude was nice to me once>I guess I should pledge the rest of my life to this immoral concentration camp now
>>23845788>>23845930>I’m not even gay Sorry but you are. > why do some Americans convince themselves it’s going to look good in their houseA heterosexual male is aware of something looking goofy AF in his house. Thing is - if he thinks that owning a thing is nice, he doesn't care one bit about how goofy it looks. You gotta be gay or a woman to be concerned foremost with what other people would think of your tastes, and see your own desires as secondary.
>>23845847No I'm suggesting the long night is a global threat so fucking off to essos doesn't make it not your problem. Also, the wall can't even stop wildlings so it's ridiculous to think it'll stop zombies and ice elves. It's the stewards and builders who think like you that Jon has alienated. The rangers like dywen know they're beyond fucked. Mance was days away from overwhelming them when Stannis came to the rescue and he didn't have giant ice spiders that could climb the wall or dead things in the water that could circumvent it. Even Starks bury their dead with iron (which the others hate) under the assumption that the wall won't be enough so their dead kings can stay dead when the long night commences again.
>>23846090Jon is a cog in the system.if Daeron didn't die but was caught after his desertion, he would've been executed.i don't see a betrayal. he didn't attack or steal from them. he just wantedto leave. i don't think he actually deserted.
>>23846113Isn't it heavily implied that the Wall was build specifically to keep the Others away and has magical properties that repel them? Coldhands could not cross it. Not even Alysanne's dragon managed to cross it. The Others NEED to put the Wall down to cross it, that's why the Horn of Joramun was introduced as a mcguffin. The stewards and bulders were perfectly sensible and rational in their suggestion, but Jon acted like an anime MC with unrealistic doylist knowledge.
>>23846113>Even Starks bury their dead with iron (which the others hate)what?the prologue has Royce's sword shatter.
The characters in the books give the Other's way too much credit. These are the creatures that can't figure out how to build boats for fucks sake.
>>23846122The wights that nearly killed jeor crossed it so obviously the magic isn't worth shit. Plus it doesn't extend forever and there's already wights in the sea.>>23846124I didn't say iron is impervious to them. It's there to ward them off from the graves which obviously won't work but there was no need for such superstitions to be born if the wall was a full proof plan.
>>23846100>I guess I should pledge the rest of my life to this immoral concentration camp nowNone of it is about muh immoral concentration camp, or some words spoken under a tree or in a sept - it's about being trusted and failing to live up to that trust. The Watch is kinda fucked, because it turns out that mass genocide ice zombies are real and nobody gives a fuck. One of like 5 people on the whole Planetos who does give a fuck trusts Daeron to help him with it because everyone's neck is on the line. Daeron could, and it would not actually inconvenience him one bit - he'd still be a minstrel travelling the world. Instead Daeron fucks over the one man who was good to him and literally everyone else out of spite for the completely different men who caught him. He could literally drop the black and still do what Jon asked of him - there's nothing Sam, Jon or anyone else could do about it, and nobody would think him a deserter, and a little girl would not cut his throat for being a traitor crow. But he specifically choose spitefully betraying the trust he was given, because he's a little bitch asshole whose only reaction to being treated unfairly by someone is to be unfair to everyone else in turn. That's why he lives out the rest of his life suppressing his shame, and why a little girl sees his treachery written across his face. >"It's not in Daeron's muh personal interests to keep serving the Watch" Well it's not in Arya's muh personal interests to leave this little bitch his breath. All is fair, enjoy the canal, make many friends there.
>>23846137>I didn't say iron is impervious to them. It's there to ward them off from the graves which obviously won't work but there was no need for such superstitions to be born if the wall was a full proof plan.bro, the swords are not for the Others.> By ancient custom an iron longsword had been laid across the lap of each who had been Lord of Winterfell, to keep the vengeful spirits in their crypts. The oldest had long ago rusted away to nothing, leaving only a few red stains where the metal had rested on stone. Ned wondered if that meant those ghosts were free to roam the castle now. He hoped not. The first Lords of Winterfell had been men hard as the land they ruled. In the centuries before the Dragonlords came over the sea, they had sworn allegiance to no man, styling themselves the Kings in the North.
>>23846137The wights didn't cross by themselves, they were taken there, and then reanimated on the other side. The wights in the sea are above the Wall line too.
>>23846122If the Wall is magically impassable by the others, freezing the passages makes zero difference. It's already impassable after all.Freezing the passages would only stop the wildlings, and that is only a stopgap solution for Castle Black since 1) climbers exist, 2) the bridge of skulls exists, and 3) wildlings can use boats to cross by sea. And the passages are very easily defensible, even the dregs of the Watch were able to hold out against the entire Wildling army. Jon's motivations are 1) being able to send out scouting parties and 2) not leaving all the wildlings to die. In fact 1) is also a necessity to catch raiders before they climb.Also everyone in the Watch was aware that the Others were a threat after the Fist of the First Men.
>>23846120>Jon is a cog in the system.That's the whole thing. People who are cogs in the system are also still people. >i don't see a betrayal.Jon asked him to do a specific thing and let him loose for it. No knife at his throat, no hostages in a cell, no threats of torture in case of disobedience - just "I trust you to do that". Daeron does the opposite and leaves a penniless fatty, a dying old man and a girl with an infant to fend for themselves in a strange land. That's an asshole and a traitor.
Does GRRM have enough time for a sufficient length Long Night? I'd say the soonest he could start it is the end of Winter which would leave the worst of the Night, its ending, and the story's conclusion all to one book. Given the length of these books, it's perhaps not impossible. But this is assuming everything else like Dany's conquest, Euron's endeavours, Stannis' campaign, and so on aren't accounted for.
>>23846147The Builders want to stop the wildlings too, and there they also disagree with Jon, but what I call bullshit is when Jon says something along the lines of:>if the Others kill all those wildlings and turn them into wights, what will happen then?Yes, what will happen, Jon? A bunch of dangerous wildlings that COULD manage to cross the Wall will turn into mindless zombies that CAN'T cross the magic Wall? You better stick to the humanitarian argument, this one is shit.
>>23846146>and then reanimated on the other sideThat should not have been possible if the wall stopped the magic of the others. They should have zero influence on the other side if the magical properties you claim are true.
Euron will kill the NIghtking and he will take the place, the final war is him as the king of the white walkers and john snow
>>23846139And why should Daeron waste his life being loyal to Jon? Because he ''trusted him''? Jon was acting as the head of the very same unjust institution he's running away from. It's like developing Stockholm syndrome to the SS soldier that was kinda nice to you in the concentration camp, and then sent you on a mission outside. He did what he should have done.
>>23846162Why not? There is no strict magical system rules for us to examine. For all we know they can't cross on their own, but can be taken there by Crows and then reboot on the other side. The wall repels them, impede their crossing, but doesn't necessarily disables them, or permanently nullifies the magic that reanimated them in the first place.
>>23846145>Ned wondered if that meant those ghosts were free to roam the castle now. He hoped not.Checkov's gun.
>>23846162not him but you can think of it as latent magic.if Others can reanimate corpses across the wall, why did only those rise up?there was a battle at the south side when they tried to open the gate and there were the Karstark people that wanted to take their niece/cousin/whatever back.or you can subscribe to the theory that what animated those corpses weren't an Other.either way, the 2 animated corpses were special.
>>23846157Okay, so the plan is to allow the zombie army to form on your doorstep while you're left to hold on with a few hundred men and then pray very hard that over time the Others can't come up with a stronger form of magic than the Wall's, or some stratagem to circumvent it?We have no previous Other invasion that was stopped by the Wall to base this on btw. It's the first time the Wall is being tested since it was built.
>>23846162they already had blue eyes when they found them.the magic was in them already.
>>23846165>And why should Daeron waste his life being loyal to Jon? Because he ''trusted him''?Yeah, kinda. That's how it is with being entrusted with human lives. >It's like developing Stockholm syndrome to the SS soldier that was kinda nice to you in the concentration camp, and then sent you on a mission outside.Ah yes because that's what the Watch is like - the SS. And not like every conscripted army in history, only tasked with opposing the actual inhuman world-ending threat.
>>23846178Considering the very limited man power, resources and time they had at the time of making the decision? Yes, that seemed like the most reasonable and rational decision. Specially considering all the problems they had to deal with south of the Wall as well. Risking everything into Jon's plan, which was a suicide mission that, at best, would bring thousands of savages south of the wall just before winter starts and they all starve and freeze to death (and if anyone survives they just rape, murder and steal from westerosi people)...that sounds like crazy talk, don't you think? No wonder Jon was murdered by his own people.>but what if the Others...Yeah, what if the Soviets could launch nukes from the dark side of the moon in the 60's? We have no solid evidence to back that up, but its a possibility, isn't it? Best to place all bets on a Mission to colonize the moon and replace their nuclear base with ours, at the cost of defending the US on planet Earth.
>>23846182I don't care if they are conscripting me to give soup to starving people in Africa, vaccinate poor kids and sing kumbaya at the beach for world peace. Slavery is slavery.
>>23846195And treachery is treachery. Daeron did what he wanted - Arya did what she wanted. Accounts are balanced.
>>23846174>Why not? There is no strict magical system rules for us to examineThere is though. Just look at skinchangers losing contact with their animals when separated by the wall. The same should be the case for the others. Only it isn't. Because trying to repel ice demons with ice magic is retarded.
>>23846200What is the point of the Wall, then? If not to stop the Others?
>>23846202To stop man.
>>23846202To help stop the Others. It's a magical fortification that allows a small army to withstand an apocalyptic horde, not a magical canceller of said apocalyptic horde. If the Wall alone was enough then the Watch would not exist. But apparently people who build the Wall were dumb enough to also found the Watch.
>>23846190>thousands of savages south of the wallThat's not how grrm sees them.>“I’m not an “American First” (and maybe because I read science fiction) I’m a “Terran First”. I’m a human being first. And I have this sympathy for other human beings no matter what side of the giant ice wall they happen to be born on.” -George RR Martin
>>23846190>muh sovietsWhat an utterly retarded comparison. The Soviet Union was not an otherworldly threat whose ultimate capabilities we had no idea about.And even then, the US spent decades proactively trying to stop them from extending their influence rather than sitting down and relying on nukes, which is what you're suggesting the Watch do if the comparison makes any sense (except the Wall isn't even the equivalent of nukes since it has no offensive power).And again: closing the passage under Castle Black doesn't stop the wildlings from crossing, especially if you're left with maybe 500 men to guard the Wall without any wildlings to bolster them. In fact, the only thing that isn't a problem when you only have a few men is defending a small passage. Close it and you have to spread them out over the entire length of the Wall instead.
>>23846209The NW's duty would be to keep and maintain the Wall, prevent them from being breached by traditional means etc. But even on your interpretation, the NW would be at their most strategically sound position under Bowen Marsh's plan, not Jon's suicide mission.
>>23846217>The NW's duty would be to keep and maintain the Wall, prevent them from being breached by traditional means etcMeans like hordes of wildlings storming it because they are pursued by the Others? Oh wait that is literally what's happening already. >the NW would be at their most strategically sound position under Bowen Marsh's plan, not Jon's suicide mission.Reasoning provided so far:>"It came to me in a dream">"I made it the fuck up">"I fucking said so">"My dad touched me inappropriately"
>>23846212And yet he realistically writes them as savages that refuse to obey the laws of the land, refuse to respect local culture, and refuse to integrate, forcing their backwards ways wherever they go. Just like the Dothraki. In fact that is probably going to be a major plot point, as the hordes of savages Dany brings on Westeros are one of the main reasons the Lords and common people reject her, seeing her as a barbaric outsider.
>>23846217>The NW's duty would be to keep and maintain the WallAh yes, them three orders of the Watch:>The Builders>The Keepers >The Maintainers
>>23846224>And yet he realistically writes them as savages that refuse to obey the laws of the land, refuse to respect local culture, and refuse to integrate, forcing their backwards ways wherever they go....but enough about Targaryens. I don't see how they are relevant for you to suddenly describe them here.
>>23846222>>23846226Even if they didn't blockade all the pathways, Marsh had the right idea. Jon is crazy and sees himself as the wildling messiah that will save the Wall, save the Wildlings and save the North. Despite having nowhere near enough ships, resources, food and shelter. He's just improvising as he goes along. Realistically, he would doom everyone. The daggers in the dark were well earned, he should count himself lucky his sworn brothers humored his insanity for so long.
>>23846151not impossible at all. people are going on about his age, but it really isn't anything to worry about yet. his main problem is a lack of interest in the story of asoiaf anymore. we can see this from the drop in quality of dance compared to the previous books. He still enjoys the worldbuilding part of it, and enjoys talking about other stories in the world, but asoiaf has lot its magic for him. This could be temporary burn-out, but it can also be the final nail in the coffin. All in all, the biggest issue is just a lack of motivation of writing asoiaf in particular. he got bored of the story. because of this, i don't mind if it neve gets finished. it's better to have it be unfinished than have a worse quality ending just so the story is finished. this is what happened to the show and it suffered greatly for it. they should have just left that unfinished too, but there was a big financial incentive. If they force george to write the last two books, you can expect them to be very much sub par
>>23846228KEKWell played, anon. Well played.
>>23846215>The Soviet Union was not an otherworldly threat whose ultimate capabilities we had no idea about.At major points and in specific ways, we didn't. That's what all the intelligence gathering and spying was for (just like Jon making Sam gather intelligence from old books and sending raiders beyond the wall).>And even then, the US spent decades proactively trying to stop them from extending their influence rather than sitting down and relying on nukesThat's why the NW should focus his remaining strength on defending the Wall instead of doing suicide missions to rescue savages.>which is what you're suggesting the Watch do if the comparison makes any sense (except the Wall isn't even the equivalent of nukes since it has no offensive power).Its a major, major asset.>And again: closing the passage under Castle Black doesn't stop the wildlings from crossing,The wildlings were defeated by Stannis. The remaining forces scattered and could have been kept in check by the NW. If a few dozens managed to cross the wall it was still better than to voluntarily bring THOUSANDS of them (most useless mouths) in a rescue mission when winter is right around the corner and they have no supplies.
>>23846240None of that related to the Long Night at all.
>>23846200>"The same should be the case for the others""should" is the problem. You try to view something whose nature is the bending of logical possibility, with a logical theorem. For all we know, warging magic and dead-reanimation magic could work on completely different principles which are even contradictory to the other. We cannot say with certainty with the information we have available why the two corpses could cross the wall and why other things such as warged animals and dragons can't, we can only theorize. What we think should make sense is irrelevant, because we are shown that events are contrary to our notions
>>23846250The question was whether George has enough time to sufficiently finish the main plot point (Long Night) alongside the other plot points (Dany, Euron, Stannis etc). I answered that question
>>23845604If Jaime looked *THAT* feminine, why didn't the Brave Companionth rape him instead of Brienne?
>>23846237>sees himself as the wildling messiah that will save the Wall, save the Wildlings and save the North.I mean....>I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow.>Despite having nowhere near enough ships, resources, food and shelter. The most premier and reliable banking institution in the world has signed off on helping them with food and resources, and there's the gift and dozens of unmanned castles so there's also shelter.>he would doom everyoneBowen Marsh has already done that by stabbing him and ensuring there's pandemonium at the place that is humanity's first line of defense. >The daggers in the dark were well earnedI agree. Now he can continue the fight as a zombie that doesn't tire or have need for food. Thanks for the upgrade, mutineers.
>>23846269He was all fucked up from being in the dungeon. Aside from that, very few male rapes in the GRRMverse. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is that femboy maester on Victarions ship. Realistically Satin would be getting turned out every night.
>>23846279Fucked-up dungeon Jaime would be more fuckable and less diseased than most Westerosi whores.
>>23846248>That's why the NW should focus his remaining strength on defending the Wall instead of doing suicide missions to rescue savages.Are you talking about Others or wildlings now? Your whole point is that they don't have to do anything to defend from the Others or stop them from turning people into zombies.One thing about Hardhome is that at this point it's also a rescue mission for Cotter Pyke's men, not just the wildlings. Marsh and the rest would also leave plenty of Watch men to die. It's a risky mission, but it isn't a binary choice between the Watch and the wildlings. Also, there are enough men to hold the Wall now that Tormund is through.As for food, the Watch got a loan for supplies from the Iron Bank so that isn't the problem for now (if they can't prevent the apocalypse they won't have to pay it back anyway).>The wildlings were defeated by Stannis. The remaining forces scattered and could have been kept in check by the NW.So we both agree that the actual threat posed by wildlings was from bands of climbers and raiders and closing the passage was a dumb suggestion that would have done absolutely nothing to stop them since Mance's whole army couldn't get through a few dozen men there. Good.
>>23846237>He's just improvising as he goes along.Ah yes, as opposed to Bowen Marsh who planned out his defense against an endless horde of wights with a handful of men well in advance. >Realistically, he would doom everyoneReasoning provided so far:>"It came to me in a dream">"I made it the fuck up">"I fucking said so">"My dad touched me inappropriately"
What is "Bar Emmon" supposed to mean?
>>23846378Jewish patronymic name.
>>23846378>>23846391I always treated is as some unknown reference to one of George's jew friends
>>23846391Aaaaah so the "Bar" is same as in "Bar Mitzvah?"
>>23846269>>23846279Also he had grown a beard in captivity and shaved his head when he escaped. A bald dude with a beard will have a hard time looking feminine.
>>23846493Yep, the modern Hebrew equivalent is Ben, as seen in Benjamin.
>>23846391>>23846585"Bar" is Aramaic for "son of" while "ben" is Hebrew for "son of". But Hebrew adopted the Aramaic "bar" alongside its own "ben", so that's why modern Hebrew has both "bar" and "ben" meaning the same thing.FYI: In Biblical/Classical Hebrew, "ben" was "bin", which makes the relation to Modern Arabic "bin" apparent. Like in "bin Laden" for example.
>>23845240Pate is based. Pate is a cute name.
>>23846378>swordfish>as in, fish with an extremely long noseHow did he get away with this?
>>23846877lmao didn't even connect that, that's hilarious
>>23846290My main point is that they should focus the few men and resources they have for defending the Wall AT the Wall, no more incursions, no more rescue missions. They can still stop an army if they are fighting from the top of the Wall, but not facing them on the ground and wasting even more lives. And no, they can't count on the wildlings to cosplay as watchmen. They are the exact opposite of watchmen: no respect for a command chain (it took Mance years to bring them together), no discipline (Stannis cut through them like butter with a much smaller army), no useful experience and knowledge to hold and fight at the wall, no loyalty from most of them that aren't directly infatuated with Jon (that...betrayed them a couple weeks before, might I remind you some might still hold a grudge over that). And the Iron Bank financed food didn't arrive yet, under the chaos of the North it was all hypothetical. If you follow YA novel logic, yes, Jon was right and everything would work out in the end. But going for real world logic and the information they had at hand at the time...Jon' command was incredibly risky, if not completely retarded.
GRRM to Dan Simmons in 1981:> "If I were really cynical I would start some medieval sword and sorcery thing, say's it's a trilogy, then keep writing it for the rest of my life."
>>23847292That aged well!
>rise in fan art depicting Velaryons as blackI mean whatever because the Dance period sucks anyways, but I just hate this slide towards show-canon where 30% of Westeros is black
>>23847856>>23847856>>23847856new
