thank you for the bread, baker

>>23842415
You're entirely welcome. Now play nice.

Just a reminder that you should probably kill yourself if you write genreslop. You’re easily replaced by AI. Or a retarded child.

>>23842447
I want to tell messages through my works, but the primary goal is just to make fun story for people to read. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Either way, they better get on the legislation to make AI fiction impossible.

I hate AI so much. I miss the days before LLMs, pre 2019 because that was the year the first GPT came out.

>>23842460
>I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
You’re an idiot so what you think really doesn’t mean anything. Try not writing stupid shit about a barbarian elf wielding the level 300 sword of smiting.

I was at 8,000 words this time last week with my current novel.

Today I am at 35,000.

Fuck you George RR Martin.

you ever plan for a chapter to end at a certain place, but it just keeps going on and on before you can comfortably get to that place?

I started writing today saying I was gonna start the chapter with my character waiting to board the ship, and end it with him being put into stasis. But now, after multiple character introductions, dialogues, inner monologues, it's like twenty fucking pages.

>>23842628
Damn. I'm just now hitting 34k and I started August 11. Keep the pace up, anon.

I use worldbuilding as a way to establish how the world works and to paint a picture of how things are in the reader's mind.
>The ferry prices this time of year were high. When the snow and ice got really bad, that is. Most people just got a bunch of supplies and hunkered down in their villages and homes around fires. If you needed to use the ferry it was probably for a damn good reason. Considering how dangerous it was to use one such transport in this weather, along with how nobody ever really showed up to use the boat, meant the prices tripled per-passenger. Mostly as compensation for any injuries.
>Stepping out of the ferry, Ai was blasted with a gust of cold air along with a flurry of frozen water droplets. He looked around, and the stone structures here were coated with a thick layer of snow, just as they were back home. Cold wasn't something that could kill a Construct, but it could immobilize one with time. That was arguably worse than just dying, considering that you'd be stuck unable to move for days at best, months at worst. Thankfully he bought one of those torches that he could unscrew and rescrew.

>Word written these past two months: 0
Plotting is fucking hell

Hello, I just finished with the sixth chapter of my story. It's the first one heavy with dialogue and an action scene so I'd appreciate some feedback regarding those things, as well as prose, etc.

It's 5k words, so beware.

https://medium.com/@panosfrag/chapter-iv-echoes-of-the-past-9f0020a5c658

>>23843063
>heavy with dialogue and an action scene
You didn't exactly sell it to me

>>23842699
Don't get sidetracked, stick to the point.

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>get an idea for a story about a gentle healer, who has a curse that turns her into a murderhobo battle junkie when threatened
>it was supposed to be a black comedy where easily avoidable conflicts end up in all out chaos because of the curse, and the extreme shifts in the MC's personality create funny character moments
>start writing it
>the story is actually fucking bleak and tragic, people dying wherever the MC goes, unable to make real friends or connect with anyone, because the curse inevitably drives people away
Is there any way I can salvage this? It was supposed to be fun, but I'll just depress and lose my readers at this rate

>>23842931
Right there with you man, I took a long break after my fourth novel and now can't get back into it at all. Forgot how to plot I guess.

>>23842447
Just a reminder that literary fiction is the "drama" genre. As for sci-fi/fantasy... "Fantasy is the impossible made probable. Science Fiction is the improbable made possible." -Rod Serling

>2 months in
>75k words
>two (2) real readers who comment on all my shit
I think if I figure out how to advertise I'll be golden. But for now the marketing magic eludes me.

>>23843239
Add a jester/Hamlet gravedigger like character to poke fun at the bleakness

>>23842460
>hurr durr legislation to make AI fiction impossible
You have a child's view of the power of government. They can only try to make AI fiction illegal. On a technological level, it's already possible. You may as well pass a law forbidding the river to flood over its banks.

>>23843362
Yeah man I have 162 followers but only three of them even comment on my work. I have forty people who favorited it but they're fucking mutes.

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>>23839815
Late to respond, but damn, I feel the same. I'm probably not going to do as well as I could when I make the transition from RR to Amazon because I hate social media so much. I stopped using Facebook when I was a teenager over a decade ago because of how hollow and fake it all was. I'm going to have a hard time bringing myself to use Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, or whatever the hell else other self-published authors are doing.

>>23843363
I have one character sort of like that. Guess I'll have to increase his role.

>>23843489
>illiterate
opinion discarded

>>23842556
I think progression is pretty marketable on there as well. Other than that, it's a rare few that make much of anything on Patreon. Best shot is to build a following and hope you can convert a small portion of them to buyers or at least into spreading good word of mouth about the story when you're ready for the Amazon release.

>>23843508
Leave it to dumbass zoomers to think that a story that progresses is a genre unto itself.

>>23843693
Yeah, I find the term pretty confusing myself and a lot of people disagree on whether popular traditional titles like Wheel of Time or Harry Potter are or aren't progression. I avoided using the tag on my own story since it seems to bring weird and rigid expectations from readers.

I’ve been writing short stories for a while now. What am I supposed to do with them?

>>23843693
he's just using the word progression as shorthand for the subgenre where there's a huge focus on the mc growing stronger in some way
which is definitely a valid subgenre categorization. it's not like most stories have an emphasis on that

>>23843715
it's a matter of focus. stuff like wot is acknowledged as progression adjacent but not really in the genre. they do get stronger but there's not a huge emphasis on it, unlike say Dragon Ball Z

>>23843716
Bound them into a collection or see about submitting them to a magazine (if you want to get published)

I bet I write the trashiest, pulpiest fiction here

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>decide to try writing historical fiction
>become violently hyperfixated on the setting
>unable to consume any media that doesn't feature the setting because if I try I feel guilty that I'm not doing "research"
>planning to blow a ton of money on a "research trip" to the place
>even start fapping to attractive girls on youtube talking about the setting instead of fapping to normal porn
I've turned into the embodiment of picrel. It's not even something cool that I can talk to people about, it's the fucking Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.

>>23843693
>>23843715
It's just a way of saying stuff happens in the story at a relatively quick pace, and it's not "slow burn" like fantasy typically is, where it takes 900 pages and three family trees for anything of importance to happen.

>>23843091
well yeah the plot of the chapter is impossible to appreciate without context so it looks like a random mess at first glance, but all I care is the quality of my writing (ie. prose, dialogue etc)

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does good content and execution negate sub-par prose?
not saying i wont try but i mean i like dune and i think the prose is shit and hard to read

How do you even analyze aspects besides prose in a story? How do you analyze the structure of one for own stories?

>>23844056
Yeah Frank's Herbet prose is rough. The later books are also painful from a plot point too and they're below 5/10 honestly

>>23844056
They can compensate for it, sure. Prose is only a dealbreaker for me if it's so bad that it really distracts.

>>23844013
Too bad you can already tell the quality of writing just by how the question is framed.

>>23844056
I think the prose is great and not at all hard to read. Maybe you're just a brainlet?

>>23844134
i read it translated so might be up to that

Putting this here since it doesn't quite belong in WWYM. I'm sure anons will demolish me for stating the obvious, but whatever.

I've been pondering exposition in fiction (or rather the thing which is exposed, the backstory). For any work of fiction to have meaning, it needs to be accompanied by context, otherwise it's just a sequence of meaningless events. The context, the backstory, the exposition, is what gives the sequence its significance. As a simple example, consider a character following another character home, entering their house, breaking into a room in which the second character had locked himself, then snatching a letter that the he was writing. The second character demands the return of the letter and for the first character to leave him in peace. The first character refuses, and upon being asked on what grounds he dares to refuse, discloses his name. In response, the second character calls in the other members of his family and tells them to fall on their knees.

Those of who you have read The Count of Monte Cristo will not be able to stop yourself from filling in the necessary backstory for the above sequence. Without that context, there is still a superficial curiosity--suspense--yet this is still born out of that backstory, it's absence. We notice the incongruence in the behavior of the characters, and we correspondingly seek an explanation, which we trust the author to provide. The contract is struck: pay the author 9.99 and 8 hours of your time and all will be resolved to satisfaction. I suspect this is what Aristotle meant by "tying" (desis) and "untying" (lusis) as the two "acts" of fiction. Much of the tying, however, is done before the story even begins. Much of fiction, maybe all of fiction, is about beginning as close to the end as possible and then deftly handling all the necessary exposition to make the narrative meaningful.

A lot of literary technique just boils down to handling exposition. Take the old saw, "show, don't tell". What is it exactly that we're supposed show and not tell? Ultimately, it's backstory. We, the author, know that our protagonist lost his mother to cancer, and that the most painful part of it was watching her waste away in the hospital, lying about the pain she was in, not being able to even taste the food our character (a professional chef) had so painstakingly prepared for her, etc.. But this is all backstory, because our story begins with our character learning that he has cancer. Nothing would be easier than to communicate this history directly, i.e to tell it to the reader. But, a sense of economy forces us to remain in the present while simultaneously revealing the past (or not reveal it, instead assume it, thereby creating suspense).

1/2

>>23844154
As another example, take "3-dimensional characters". Such a character is really nothing more than a collection of behaviors (and motivations) that are consistent with an assumed backstory. A character is shallow when the part of their backstory pertinent to the story is thin or uniform, i.e lacks nuance. He's nonsensical (or "unrealistic") when he's inconsistent with his history. The plot, which arises out of the character's (often conflicting) desires and his attempts to fulfill or reconcile them, is derived entirely from his backstory. Desires divorced from history are meaningless in fiction, their pursuit and fulfillment are only significant relative to a pre-established context.

I know I'm probably stating the obvious, yet the mistake I see most often in the writing that's posted in these threads (and elsewhere, and my own), beyond the superficial first draft problems like excessive cliches, awkward prose, etc., is mishandling exposition. Either not enough context is given and the reader doesn't care, or too much context is given and there's no suspense. Treading this line is what seems to separate the amateur from the pro, and the unpublishable from the irresistible.

There's at least one useful thing that I've come away with from this: the unavoidable exploratory phase of drafting is delimited by backstory. Whether you do that exploration in your head or on the page, I've found it useful to take the criteria of sufficient backstory as my jumping off point for a "serious draft". Once things are sufficiently "tied", untying follows quite naturally. And getting unstuck is less often a matter of unraveling things within that moment of the narrative than knotting them before the narrative even begins.

>>23843063
I liked the description of the fight during the second scene. Most of the descriptions of the locale as well as the character's thought weren't too distracting from the action itself. I am not sure this is the case when it comes to the dialogue, though.

>>23843096
that's the thing. everything included is necessary for the future of the story. maybe i need to introduce some characters earlier to make it less cluttered.

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Are skinchangers overused in fantasy now that GRRM and Robin Hobb have popularized them

anyone know how nonfiction publishing differs from fiction? recovering "journalist", only ever had articles and essays published

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I'm so glad that I left work to focus on writing. My novel will get to an editor in November. What I hope for next year is even average advances, for a novels or short stories, to keep me in business for years so that my old career might stay in the dust where it belongs. Maybe one day I can share my finished work instead of sitting in the bleachers, only reading, and lying about what I've written.
With love.

>>23844532
Did you get in contact with agents? Any tips on querying?

>>23844559
I have a list of 65 to contact. Agents don't like when you query another agent who works at the same company, so pay attention to what you're doing. Personally I'm only applying to agents who explicitly say they believe in the vision of the writer. There's more of them than /lit/ would like to believe, but still rare enough that you have to look. I don't want to be represented by an agent who cares about the market more than my work.
I'm trusting that my professionalism will help me when querying.

I don't see the point of getting an agent, or trad pub at all. So you get $8,500 up front. Big deal. That won't even pay for 3 months of rent. Then you lose your rights to try to re-publish later when the company decides your book wasn't profitable and won't do any reprints. You just spent years of work for $8,500 (pre-tax and tip).

>>23844648
If you can't get signed more than that you shouldn't be living somewhere that costs 3,000 dollars a month. The average signature even without an agent is triple the figure you gave, by the way. Even a totally lowball agented signature could last someone for at least three years.

>>23843239
>Make all her victims assholes
>Introduce an afterlife so we can see that the souls of the people she kills are still hanging around and are spiritually fine

>>23844648
If trad pub actively tries to market your book and it flops, how the fuck would you find success by yourself? Lmao
Also 3000$ rent is crazy. If you really want to try to make it as an author, you can share a ~1500$ 2 bed room with another person for $750 a month. And if you live in bumfuck kansas or something it's even cheaper
3000 rent is like SF/NY rent lmao

>>23844664
>The average signature even without an agent is triple the figure you gave, by the way. Even a totally lowball agented signature could last someone for at least three years.
I have no idea what you're saying. I watched Sanderson's video and he said an entry level first time author will be lucky to be given $10,000, and 15% of that goes straight to the agent.

>>23844700
>If trad pub actively tries to market your book and it flops, how the fuck would you find success by yourself?
You never know what the market will be like in 15 years. I'd rather keep me rights and maybe a new avenue will pop up that I can try. Self-publishing was barely even a thing a decade ago, and now it works for a lot of people. I want to hang onto my rights to publish as new options become available.
And I know, rent's are fucked. It's near Portland, OR which I want to leave but have no idea where to go. The people here are batshit insane.

What separates a YA novel from a normal one? Is it just the language used, the story, length, what?

>>23844817
Just the audience you want to market to.

>>23844817
Aimed towards a younger audience, so generally the themes and topics are fitting for teens

>>23842410
Is there an ideal exposition - description - dialogue ratio one should aim for?

>>23844833
These days teens are into hardcore drugs and sex so there's really not much distinction with adults.

>>23844056
if the prose sucks I'm not reading it. Mid level at least

>>23844833
What would that be?
>racism?
Mocking Bird, Huck Finn
>sex?
Romeo and juliet
>rape?
Tess of the Durbervilles, My name is Malia
>adultry?
Scarlett Letter
>incest?
Fall of the House of Usher
>Murder and death?
Lord of the Flies (and everything else)
>Age gap romance?
Jane Eyre

Are you telling me teens are so sensitive today they cannot handle any topics except for that of super hero save the world litrpg progression fantasy with a funny cast and happy ending?

Lion Witch and the Wardrobe was written for 7 year olds.

>>23844817
Coming of age themes

>>23844056
If it's hard to read then it's shit. A book has one job: to be read. If it can't even do that right then it's garbage. Not every line needs to be pure poetry, but it should at least be creative since it's fiction. If you just write out what happens from plot point to plot point it'll come off like a newspaper article. The prose and creativity is what sets stories apart.

>>23844855
Bruh all stats show that teens of this generation are virgins who avoid alcohol and drugs. Besides vapes admittedly
Or do you just mean they're culturally into sex and drugs, like in rap and movies and shit? I don't think that holds for YA books though

I had my beta reader tell me she could not finish the book. Middle aged women (the largest consumer of books) hate rape and sexual assault

>>23844912
If “dark romance” trends on tiktok are anything to go by you could have fooled me

>>23844912
>Middle aged women (the largest consumer of books) hate rape and sexual assault
unless its in a colllleen hoover book

>>23844923
>>23844926
female rape is different. they need to "seduce" the man and then get raped because said man couldn't resist himself any longer with their flirting and chemistry. Said man is gentle and loving in his rape even if she doesn't want it.

But if it's a man like Conan saying "You woman! I shall breed you like the sows you are!" they'll declare it sexist and disgusting. Actual rape scenes using the literal definition of rape are hated by women.

>>23844923
>>23844926
Somehow I think anons rape scene wasn't like ones found in dark romance books

>>23844888
Well i word like it's my own language and use tricks like its my own and englishers think i'm some kind of prose master, sometimes they realise i'm ESL but not all the time.
presently rewriting an excerpt i sent a while back will maybe send it tomorrow

>>23844946
...maybe they're just sucking my cock like the robot

>>23844855
>>23844862
It's more about the how than the what actually. Keep it a lighter tone, not so much graphic or disturbingly so.

>>23844900
I've never seen a single study that shows high rates of virginity. If anything the average seems to be girls lose it around 12.

>>23844912
Rape is one of womens' #1 sexual fantasies. Maybe yours just was written wrong. Write it from the female perspective.

>>23845140
is that still possible to do in third person if you use free indirect speech?

>>23845052
? what are you even talking about? are you some radicalized incel or something? Literally every study shows that sex is going way down in the younger generations, they're all crippled with anxiety and dopamine addicted. And the average age to lose virginity has never been 12 for any generation you fucking weirdo

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>>23845187
>are you some radicalized incel or something?

>>23845187
I can guarantee you all the twitter in the world can't override 3 million years of evolution and instinct to breed. Kids these days are sluts, same as they have been in every generation since time began.

>>23845213
so the answer is literally yes, huh?

I know we're on 4chan but I expected a writer's thread to have less deranged posters

>>23845269
it's typically one of the better generals on this site

>>23843239
Make her rape her sister

I'm looking at my prose and it fucking sucks. Like actually bad.
I have a great story. Plots, characters, settings, etc. come to me naturally, but I struggle with writing even mediocre sentences.
It reads like a wiki article on what happened.

>>23845318
just read books with good prose and copy them

I've been practicing a lot of blender but I realised I don't even have a story I want to animate now that I know how. how do you make stories you care about enough to spend years of work writing/animating/filming it?

>>23845269
I am the most deranged poster. You get what you pay for.

>>23845325
And keep engineering every sentence until I'm done with the whole book?

>>23845373
eventually you're going to get a sense of it in your head, and will be able to do it more naturally

>>23845344
I just look at series that I like, and come up with interesting combinations, or taking a premise from one and modifying it heavily. Maybe look at stuff you like fictional series and see if it causes you to be inspired to make something. Maybe look to real life too. Most of my ideas just come from fictional series and wanting to make a new thing based off of the premise of them, maybe I'm unoriginal, but it's kind of like me wanting to see more of that stuff.

>>23845318
Make more metaphors. Instead of saying two generals were smart, say their battle was "a dance of minds"

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>>23845344
Here's more general advice. I'm no expert but here's what I have fwiw.
Learn how to screenwrite. Read up resources how to tell a story, read books in the genre of story you want to tell, and from those books, I think you'll likely pick up lots of inspiration from them and be able to come up with ideas for your own story. You might not need something indepth because you are mostly an animator. One of the most important things is practicing and writing a lot, start with short stories. Most people lean towards plotting or discovery writing. Here are good resources:
https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/articles/snowflake-method/
is one method but it is kind of rigid and works not well for discovery writers. Some people like it a lot though.
>Pic rel
This helped me a lot.

>>23845318
I read up about a guide on making prose before. Here is the gist of it.
> Grammar
Learning proper grammar can help with making good prose, it seems.
>Variety
Variance helps a lot, in multiple ways but I think the important thing to take away is to vary up sentence lengths and starts in stories. Also vary up paragraph lengths and word choice.
>Sensory Description
Describe all of the senses that the narrator would feel, remember that it isn't only sight. Layer them, sometimes putting together multiple and contradicting sensations to each other.
>Focus
Consider your narrative lens. The lens of which the story is told through. Describe what your character is interested in seeing and what they are focusing on. Describe how a character would see something, not how the thing is objectively.


>Solid understanding of grammatical rules

>Wide variety of sentence structures and styles

>Breadth and depth of sensory description

>Interesting structural elements, like circularity and extended metaphor

>A focus consistent with narrative lensing

>>23845431
This actually does work, somewhat. I've read almost 500 pages of Arthur Conan Doyle this month and notice my writing starting to sound a little more Victorian.

>They probably thought she was crazy to dress like this.
>They surely thought she was fit for the asylum to dress as such.

>>23844573
How intersectional are you? It's not supposed to matter, but in the real world it does.

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>>23844912
>middle aged women hate rape and sexual assault
not at all...you're just doing it wrong

https://youtu.be/8oME-ar9WpI?si=WBTAwPGYX4iVsoBZ

What's a way to describe a mother not knowing their own child like this? What's a way they can find out?

Is it possible to improve without sharing your work with dumb fucks like you?

>>23845785
Share it with ChatGPT. It helps me improve immensely.

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>>23845318
>>23845325

Are you guys worried about prose because, say you want to try trad pub. Is it important to you for the final product to be as much of your own writing as possible? Meaning, you have not had a "ghostwriter" manipulate it so it sounds better? Is there like, a pride that goes into the actual printed story?

(btw, before this thread, I've known absolutely nothing about writing. I merely came onto /lit/ to learn because I'd like to one day complete my own autobiography or at least the story of my "journey.")

Can someone please tell me if this sentence is grammatically correct? It's the title of a youtube video that I came across. I don't care about the title or the subject, but the sentence looks weird to me.

"What if Star wars Episode III were good" is the sentence but shouldn't it read "What if Star wars episode III WAS good"? I would always say was but maybe I'm just a dumbass.

>>23846027
Is it so hard to google fucking basicass dumbfuck questions like this? This is a thread for people who went to school

>>23846027
https://languagetool.org/insights/post/grammar-if-i-was-were/

>>23846039
I tried that already just answer the question

>>23846041
>l
That doesn't answer my question. Stop being a fucking snob, I'll just ask a different board. I thought yall were smart.

>>23846046
It says the SUBJECT of the sentence. The webpage used "I", but it could be anything. tl;dr yes the Youtuber is right and you're being a prick about this.

>>23846049
But Episode III singular so why would it be were

>>23846051
Because it's a hypothetical scenario, did you not even click the link?

>>23844670
I figured, since the character is a healer, some of the grimness can be offset by fixing up the victims after the dust has settled. But I don't want to trivialize death, the whole premise loses meaning if killing people has no consequences.

>>23846060
I understand if I say "I wish I were rich" but why is it hypothetical? Because whether it's good or bad is subjective.

>>23845344
Start with short stories. Like, super short. If you look at Blender shorts on youtube, most are around 2 minutes or less. If you work on something for years, you'll just realize eventually that you'll have to redo everything, because you've learned better ways to do it, the software has changed too much, features have been added and removed, etc.

>>23845945
bump, damnit

>>23846064
>"What if Star wars Episode III were good"
He's saying the movie sucks, but in some alternate reality it might actually have been good. In that hypothetical scenario, he, I assume, lays out the effects in the rest of the video.

i don't want to describe the setting of my book in a conventional manner, instead i shall do it by writing a serie of fake laws and statutes.
I'm a genius.

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I have taken the slop pill. Completely thrown away any modicum or desire of trying to write something prolific or something vaguely resembling a masterpiece. It took me this long to realize no matter what i do, i'll be unable to replicate the success of webserial author's i once admired. Such as wildbow and nobody104. So much time pondering, procrastinating and planning, Doing nothing.

SO for the next two years, i will solely dedicate myself to writing pure market fiction. Irl problems have grinded me to halt one too many times. For the past month i have written more than 60000 words writing a combination of litrpg, progression fantasy and smut. On the first of October, i am planning a Great trial. 4 different slop fictions, one has to stick by the end of the month the other's have to go. All daily chapter's. Have i lost it.

Is this unrealistic?

>>23846642
60000 words across 4 different fictions is jack shit. You'll run out of shit to post in like a week.

>>23846642
I'm in a similar position (but coming from more a trad lit dream). I've just started uploading my 100k word fiction already and ground out 10k words this week of a new secondary litrpg series. Fuck it all, I'm trying to write to market.

My only critique of your plan is that you're spreading yourself too thin. People don't like seeing unfinished stories in your back catlogue, and you may as well have all your work under one pen name right? You could have old stories up to attract people over time. But respect the drive to grind.

>>23846642
Unironically no. You will become a better writer doing this and fuck it might make some money.

It's these sorts of writers (and those who obsessively write fanfiction) who become better than 99% of those who write currently including people on /lit/. They are churning out content that is constantly being critiqued resulting in them finessing their craft further.

Use a pen name so you can return to being a 'serious' writer in the future.

You'd think slop consumers are completely braindead but they tend to have a keen nose for sniffing out noncommittal grifter rats. And nothing's a bigger giveaway than an author with a bunch of incomplete fictions without a substantial chapter count.

>>23846027
"Star Wars Episode III" is a noun phrase, and is singular (i.e. there was only one movie called that), so you want "was", not "were".

>>23845663
Due to my field, I was involved with lots of different skill sets and disciplines. At one point I was managing others. My personal background isn't one-note either. I think I know what you mean by that having value because I feel like it's one of the reasons I was hired.

>>23846086
Well, aren't you the entitled one.
>>23845945
Completely subjective question. Personally, I haven't used a ghostwriter, nor considered it.

>>23846770
retard

>>23846786
No, I'm asking if you're a black lesbian trans Communist.

>>23846810
Good answer. Great discussion.

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>>23846814
In that case, no.
It's sad that people these days only focus on what is skin deep, because I think that even if you are not, there's so much subtlety in supposedly monolithic identities. Something worth exploring in fiction. Also science, people heckin love books about scientists, right?

>>23846722
Nta but how different is this medium of writing really than the pulp serials of the 19th century?

>>23846886
It's not. And both are/were profitable. Pulp serials were even derided as "penny dreadfuls".

>>23846895
"Pulp" itself is a derisive term but it doesn't quite feel that way now. It's saying the paper deserves to be pulped, that is shredded and disposed of. I think the term has ended up taking on a life of its own.

Fanfiction is good practice besides worldbuilding and creating original worlds and stories. Different types of fanfiction help in different ways though.
Mostly I think this works for genre writers.

>>23842410
Working on my first series. How unbearable would a chapter 0 be if the first half is a pretentious story, and the second is a fight scene? I’m thinking of cutting the first half but it’s information that’ll be important way later

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Does a story really need some deep meaning or allegorical references? I had someone read my story and they kept asking me what I meant by X or Y, or what message I wanted to deliver. I just wrote for fun (probably in a therapeutical way), for people to enjoy and pass the time as well. I'm neither a philosopher nor a psychologist to come up with 2deep4u shit

>>23846919
>writing your own story is better practice
yes, i understand

>>23846936
I mean realistically you’re always gonna end up with deeper meanings as long as you’re writing a story that’s going somewhere. Even something as basic as a difficult choice the mc makes can have deeper meanings

>>23846642
it takes more than 15k words to "trial run" a series for marketability
prob more like 20-25 2k chapters for bare minimum. and then run an ad if the followers are doing decent for a new noname
if you post your title and synopsis here though I could let you know if I think it'll grab RRs attention

>>23846936
What genre were you writing? Readers can form expectations on genre, the title, the coverart, the first few pages. Some readers just are always looking for this, but there might be reason a reader asked you about this.
I don't think every novels needs this, and especially not short stories where you can write about things which resolve relatively quick. But one thing I take caution in is going far too deep. These deep topics have been tread so much it might be played out, especially if you are writing an existential topic. Go for something that keeps you up at night but be critical with yourself about how many people have gotten over it already. If you think few people have, you might be on to something.

>>23846936
The secret is to just never tell them and let them make up their own headcanon.

Trying to write with a head cold is torture. Can't even think straight. I've been struggling to write as of late as it is, part of me things I should just force myself to write, even if I only get a few paragraphs done today. Another part of me thinks I should rest and just not do anything until I get better.

>>23846936
this is the difference between literary fiction and genre fiction.

>>23846936
im schizo and i think about those things a lot but i mean you dont have to thats the fun in reading things you make up your own shit between the lines

>>23846983
The difference between genre fiction and literary fiction is that the author of one wants everybody to be aware of their philosophical and social beliefs, while the other author wants everyone to be entertained by what they've written.

>>23846923
>chapter 0
You mean a prologue? Sounds fine, but that you yourself feel the first half's pretentious is a bad sign. Assuming you're going to publish it as a web novel, readers who don't like prologues will skip regardless so don't bother putting anything too essential in it.

>>23846981
Rest. Spend the time you usually would writing reading instead.

>>23846962
Definitely not a novel, but this was a short story about a dude descending into madness over mundane things (I probably took my OCD as inspiration). Took a bit of inspiration from some of Poe's stories, which I didn't find any deep subtext other than crazy people trying to convince you that they aren't crazy, just doing what they think it's "normal". Definitely don't want to touch any existencial subject
>>23846972
>>23846987
I like this approach a lot, but I might have a hard time dealing with the bs people might come up with. I admit some might be fun but others just bother me. They also might think I'm something I'm not over a concept that's not there

>>23847027
Forgot to reply >>23846994 but
>the other author wants everyone to be entertained by what they've written
Pretty much looking for this, I just want people to have fun

>>23846568
Yeah but when are you going to put those in your book? Between chapters? Between parts?
I've decided to use footnotes myself, it's more organic that way, and I don't need the characters explaining things obvious to them.

>>23847027
i got used to being called a fag and women especially like to call me a pedophile for...
talking about adult women
i don't get it honestly

>>23847011
Yeah lol. It’s protentious cause it’s a short story that explains some stuff about how the universe of the story opposes entropy directly. It’s stuff I have to explain for later and for the story to work because it will eventually involve subgradient created universes but yeah I’ll let it wait. Time to extend the mcs fathers execution lmao

>>23846824
There's nothing to discuss about basic grammar. Either you're correct, or you're not.

has there ever been a book that proposes or entertains a country like the united states to shrink its states into smaller chunks so that they are all equal in land size/territories?

>>23847183
what

>>23847183
What do you mean, like through magical means or just remapping borders with larger states losing land and smaller ones gaining it?

>>23847242
the latter.

>>23847183
>>23847246
Why would they do that?

Is it too much telling not showing to have a diplomat explain proper greeting customs?

I have a race with horns that raise their heads and expose their throat in greeting (lowering the head is offensive as it indicates they intend to gore you). I wanted some young people to meet them for the first time and a human ambassador has to explain to them the proper greeting customs, and that the people of the race are not looking down on them when they tilt their chins up.

>>23847375
No, that seems like something a diplomat would do. It'd feel a bit forced if he is only there for this though.

>>23843743
where do folks go to read and publish fiction? I used to listen to PseudoPod and EscapePod back in the day

>>23846824
The answer was already given. It has nothing to do with whether it's singular or not but whether it's the subjunctive or indicative tense.

>>23847414
get a library card
buy a book from a store

what the fuck is wrong with you?

Why do people real actual garbage on RR instead of classical literature?

>>23847450
because classical literature is B-O-R-I-N-G.

>>23847466
Unironically this. I don't agree, but when I check Goodreads 1 star reviews for the classics most of them are complaining it was "boring." That, or misogynistic and racist.

>>23847450
99% of classical literature is overrated dull dog shit.

What do you guys do to motivate yourself to continue writing? I started a project months ago out of a spark of ideas and then once I put all my ideas down I lost a lot of the momentum to keep working on it.
It feels wrong to force myself to work on a creative project but that's what it's like. If I stick to some kind of routine will I condition myself to enjoy it again? I also have writer's block.

>>23847484
make it a habit

>>23847466
I find amateur garbage a lot more boring. The other day, I tried to read some RR slop and it was just dialogue, dialogue, dialogue, characters talking about fucking nothing without any apparent point or direction, and barebones event description. Every work has the same voice, makes the same mistakes. None could hold my attention even halfway through chapter 1. Then I went and picked up Kipling's Jungle Book and was hooked on page one. It was a pleasure to read and full of heart, unlike any of this web drivel.

I can't believe different people like different things

>>23845513
>>23845539
good advice ty

>>23847533
You misunderstand the purpose of web fiction
web fiction is
1. absurdly long
2. produced fast
3. dopamine focused
The people reading it probably read more words in a month than you do in a year. They shovel it down their gullet
And as engaging as tightly plotted, respected novels are, they fail #1. A large portion of the fun that comes from web fiction is the millions of words of runtime, so you can really settle into the world and watch the MC go from impoverished farmer's boy into world leader
>inb4 there's real fantasy that does that, but is written well
A lot of these readers have already read all the big series like WOT. Again, they read like like a book every three days. Plus a lot of the trad series aren't indulgent enough in the power fantasy

>>23847442
I meant current outlets for short fiction in the vein of literary and pulp magazines, not the concept of a book, which I guess could have been clearer. But, hey, that's 4chan

>>23847383
Fair. He will appear as a side character every so often but he's definitely not a main character.

>>23847033
Forget about it, i decided to throw the entire manuscript in the bin once i reminded myself that i am not capable of writing anything.
This is the 10th manuscript i throw away, wasted an entire after noon writing it.

>>23847599
I don't misunderstand anything, retard. This isn't fucking rocket science. Typical slop consumer, nothing between the ears.

some days you just wake up retarded and can't write

yesterday i was only able to do about 1,500 when I usually do much more. I was struggling to come up with the words I wanted. I felt like such an absolute retard. today I've already doubled that word total. i think i need a better diet so I can function more consistently

>>23847599
>The people reading it probably read more words in a month than you do in a year
But what's the point if it's all awfully written? I read more 4chan posts in a year than words in a novel, but less than 1% are quality.

I like working off some concepts in these threads.
This is how my characters differ from each other
>MC 1: Autist who can tell instantly whenever someone is lying or just hiding something. Very bad at actually communicating with people in a natural way because of this, but still generally try to be polite and pleasant. Ironically has no idea how to lie, the same way a fish wouldn't know how to turn on a faucet
>MC 2: Calculating bastard who considers others to be morally below him. Not good at all at at being a people person, but his skills at fact-finding (through scholary pursuit or asking the right question at the right time) is undeniable. Can lie, but people who know him well know he's so set in his way he cannot bluff to save his life
>MC 3: War victim who wants revenge. Very effective at infiltrating herself into tight-woven groups to get what she wants. Can lie, and very well, but MC 2 sees right through it. However, she sees right through MC 2 as well.
>MC 4: War veteran, jolly and trying to enjoy life despite what he did. Doesn't lie often, except to himself.
>MC 5: Innocent child. Crooked way to see the world, but it's always crooked the same way. Cannot lie at all.

>>23847675
>i don't misunderstand anything, retard
you went into RR expecting high writing quality and tightly plotted, gripping stories, retard

>>23847749
Nobody cares about prose.

>>23847770
everyone cares about prose even if they think they don't care about prose.

>>23847755
No, I didn't, retard. You claimed they weren't boring and I said they were fucking boring. You were wrong on all your other points too. RRtards don't read or understand what they read, as you keep demonstrating.

>>23847794
Cope.

>>23847797
Unfortunately, you are too braindead to hold a conversation with, since you fail to understand even basic talking points. Goodbye

>tfw slopsumers are better read than me

>>23847533
>I went and picked up Kipling's Jungle Book and was hooked on page one
I'm reading it now. There's a lot of telling vs showing. I'm not sure this book would be successful at market today.

>>23847817
To craft the grandest of slops one must know first what truly captures the hearts of men.

>>23847770
The only thing I care about is prose.

do you guys name your chapters?

>>23847901
I do mine like this
>Chapter X - [Chapter Title] (Part Y)

>>23847901
No. Good names take too long to think up. I'm 35k words into my story and still haven't decided on a name for the city or country where everything takes place.

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>>23847246
I don't know about a book on it, but the idea's been discussed and some maps of what it'd potentially look like have been created if you're looking for inspiration.

>>23847901
Yeah. I didn't initially, but decided to do it when posting the novel on RR since an interesting chapter title can be like free advertising in the latest updates section. When publishing on Amazon I might remove them, though.

>>23847901
For my current novel, for some reason I started doing single-word chapter titles.

Hey Editor Anon, if you still lurk here, are you up for some work? I sent you an email too.

>>23847686
I wrote 300 words today but the night is still young.

I wrote a little before work this morning should I go to a local writers meetup this evening I’ve been avoiding them because last time I went it was a bunch of trannies. Well one tranny going off about Palestine. Otherwise it was mostly women, all lesbians. I’m assuming. They all had some fag flag shit with them.

>>23848120
Do they give good feedback? Then go.

>>23848120
That's a good reason to not go. You can't trust the advice of people with mental illness.

>>23848145
Nah you can totally trust troons to be up their ass in escapism and literature. They know their shit when they're not dilating.

Does this work as a female character in concept?
>6 foot 4 inches, 200 pounds
>Extremely skilled martial artist who took on the best of the best
>Her chosen husband? A sickly bantamweight boxer who had taken more falls than anyone else
>Also is our MC's late great-grandmother

>>23848256
yes. quite sweet actually

>>23848026
What do you do when the characters/narration mentions the locations? Are you using placeholders? I find this site pretty handy for generating all sorts of names.
https://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/

>>23848277
I just say [PH:city] so I can ctrl+F it later and replace them all at once.

>>23848274
I wanted to go with this idea that accounts of her vary from person to person
>The two still-living people that did know her are our MC's grandfather and great-aunt, and their interpretations of her actions vary wildly.
>Grandfather saw her as a reckless thrill-seeker but still had respect for her, Great-aunt admired her but felt she was distant and wishes she got to spend more time together. Other accounts paint her as vicious, some compassionate, some normal, the lot
>MC is constantly said to be "Just like his great-nan" and he tends to fit ALL of these descriptions so it makes us wonder what she was like

>>23846913
No, the origin of the term "pulp fiction" referred to the cheap paper it was printed on. From https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pulp-fiction:
>Magazines featuring such stories were typically published using cheap, ragged-edged paper made from wood pulp.

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>>23847183
The pieces weren't equal sizes–they broke along cultural/functional lines–but there's this:

>>23847675
off to r/gatekeeping with you, plebbitor

>>23848446
Same thing.

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>>23842931
try 8 years dickhead

I have a problem where when writing I get into a specific headspace, but that changes each session depending on my mood. So if I'm working on one chapter, it gets inconsistent in tone.
How to fix?

I always enjoyed writing stories whenever it was assigned to us in school but I've never had any interest in being a writer. That's not to say I don't want to write, I think it would be cool to have a book out there, but I've never had this deep passion for writing since I was a youngin.

give me nonfiction writing prompts

>>23848831
the backwards culture of papa new guinea and whether all cultures should be celebrated and accepted

>>23847794
true, prose that lacks density is probably a plus with slop, powering through hundreds of pages of moby dick day after day would be exhausting

>>23848930
best books strike a nice balance of the two

I just looked up a phrase from my short story to make sure it's kosher, and the only exact match was from a 2012 Naruto X Kingdom hearts fanfiction.

This might be too specific but I will give it a shot. Do you know of any books or even blog post series that covered character voice? I would like to read some examples of dialogue which showcase different voices such as frigid character or jovial character through their prosody, diction, and content

>>23842447
>implying you can't replace lit pseud post modern faggotry
That copium's pretty good, huh?

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My goofy detective story is testing well with beta readers and critique groups. Got a good feeling about it.

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>>23842410
I am starting to understand how to make interesting characters and character interactions instead of just dropping cardboard cutouts into weird situations.
It turns out drugs CAN be useful.

>>23848469
>gatekeeping
I don't think that word means what you think it means

>>23847821
dat worldbuilding and lore tho