Isn’t asceticism and minimalism basically just giving up on the highs and lows of life for tranquility? Essentially, you are reducing suffering by reducing joy. It’s the equivalent of just balancing the books another way.
>>24841576>, you are reducing suffering by reducing joyyes, its insanely low IQ like most leftist policies
>>24841576>Essentially, you are reducing suffering by reducing joyYou're reducing suffering by learning that therea re things beyond pain and pleasure. Monks, who tend to practice asceticism, are some of the most joyous people you will meet.
there are different motivations:>Bhuddist/easternthe self and goods of this world are illusory and we should detatch from our passions and sense of self for spiritual purity>StoicPleasure and passions and the goods of this world disrupt our highest end, reason, so we should maintain distance to keep our mind calm so we can rationally order our life>Catholic asceticism (also similar to platonicish stuff but expressed more clearly)The things in this world are good, but are imperfect reflections of the good as such God, and due to our sin and malattachment we can fall for the illusions of worldly things being our ultimate end, so we should separate from these things to remain focused on it. (They also like physically tortured themselves to disconnect from the good/comfort of their body. Not because it's bad but because it's just an imperfect representation of the good that can be misleading) This one most clearly still maintains the good of creation as you can see with the art, polyphony, and view of valid like folk ways and normal person life. The extreme asceticism was for people taking the ascetic path like monks who give up their normal life and they say they are "dead to this life". They'll still have a much more positive view of pleasure/created things than the other ones though because of the whole analogia entis thingThe Catholic and this I think is sort of reflected in less aescetic greek views may actively pursue suffering and non-minimalism as a greater expression of their being>protestant/gnostic/muslim also some neoplatonic schoolsThe goods of this world are contemptible illusions that corrupt the soul, they only degrade us spiritually and we most avoid any pleasure from them so that we can stay rooted in the only true good.
>>24841576>You are reducing suffering by reducing joyEphemeral and ultimate illusions anon, take the gnosis pill
>>24841576>joy is when new toy and suffering is when no new toy
>>24841576The books are not balanced. Giving up a little pleasure liberates you from a lot of suffering, because there is much more suffering in the world than pleasure.
>>24841620It’s not even about new gadgets, but about taking risk and exploring new things in life.>Eating only ramen would guarantee that starvation will never happen. Sure, you will probably suffer less, but now have a lesser understanding of what taste is.>Enjoying steaks or other expensive experiences such as caviar will inevitably increase of chance of starvation in the future, but without risking those resources that flavour is simply inconceivable in the mind. Hence, you will experience both highs and lows.Why would the former be considered superior to the latter if reducing suffering means sacrificing pleasure. Shouldn’t should be an optimal ratio instead?
>>24841576You should consider what you mean by joy. When the junkie injects heroin into his veins and blisses out, is he feeling “joy?” Every pleasure is really of the same nature as this, to a greater or lesser extent.
>>24841670I left it purposely vague in order to encompass a wider range of topics since it can be about anything from economics, to philosophy, to risk taking behaviour.
>>24841576Could you elaborate a bit? Asceticism is pretty different from contemporary "minimalism." Asceticism is spiritual, while "minimalism" is really just about minimizing the noise that comes from the abundance of our consumerist societies. Do you think your picture of Le Corbusier's Paris displays something ascetic or minimalist in a philosophical sense?
>>24841721I meant in both the physical and spiritual sense. Yes, I'm aware that there is a vast difference between these two ideas, but the mental world is always tied to the material world.For example, the minimalism design from architecture has spread globally for it's cheap budget that in turn influences art to be less distinctive on a global scale. Thus, reducing the possibility of different designs in people's minds and encourages asceticism.
>>24841757I don't think that minimalist design encourages asceticism. We can say that all Apple products are "minimalist" in their design, and yet the iPhone, and the way people use it, is not ascetic in any way. Most minimalist design isn't ascetic but is instead luxurious. Then we can take a look at most living spaces today. The homes of the poor are extremely cluttered most of the time. In fact, basically any home nowadays is filled to the brim with shit, which is a relatively recent phenomenon. That's why "minimalism" in the sense of only living with "the things that bring you joy" has arisen, but it doesn't have anything to do with proper asceticism in terms of denying yourself earthly possessions.
>>24841576Yes, you're basically cultivating serotonin instead of dopamine. You shouldn't kid yourself that this is somehow morally superior, however.
It’s all relative
>>24841648But isn’t having experience in both the highs and lows of life considered a more complete understanding of the world?Without this chaos, the mind cannot be fully open.
>>24841648>there is much more suffering in the world than pleasureSounds like you failed at life t.b.h.>>24842567Also this.
