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Recently watched SEED and SEED DESTINY back to back.
>Final Episodes of SEED
>Cagalli taps into SEED
>This has HUGE implications concerning the nature of naturals and coordinators and may change the nature of the conflict
>Doesnt do it again and accomplishes nothing major for the rest of the battle
>Watch SEED DESTINY
>Wait the entire series for Cagalli to kick into SEED mode again
>Cagalli gets the Akatsuki, an actually high spec Mobile Suit
>Doesnt go SEED
>Cucks herself out of her own mobile suit by handing her fathers last gift to Neo
Does anyone know if Cagalli does anything cool in SEED FREEDOM? Is it acknowledged in interviews?
Or is this shit like Kamille losing his memories at the end of Zeta and having that ret-conned into becoming a vegetable at the beginning of ZZ, and literally everyone ignores it?
>>
>>22551763
SEED mode is the most pointless fucking 'super mode' of all Gundam.
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>>22551772
I can buy it as 'super enhanced reflexes and reaction time', but without the Accord retcon in Seed Freedom that doesn't explain what the fuck Lacus does in Seed Mode while piloting a figurehead chair in a ship.
>>
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>>22551763
>Does anyone know if Cagalli does anything cool in SEED FREEDOM? Is it acknowledged in interviews?
When the IJ Spec II deals a major blow to the Shiv.A, its Cagalli controlling it via remote, not Athrun.
>>
>>22551777
>control mobile suits via remote
That's extremely gay.
>>
>>22551763
>Does anyone know if Cagalli does anything cool in SEED FREEDOM? Is it acknowledged in interviews?
Or is this shit like Kamille losing his memories at the end of Zeta and having that ret-conned into becoming a vegetable at the beginning of ZZ, and literally everyone ignores it?
Anon, that’s not what happens. He gets Newtype raeped by Scirocco and it basically fries his brain. He basically regresses back into being an infant before he shuts down completely and becomes unresponsive
>>
>>22551779
Ironic since that's what initially everyone thought Age was going to do before it aired.
>>
>>22551860
What does AGE have to do with a Gundam Seed thread?
You also don't seem to understand what the meaning of irony is.
>>
>>22551763
ok, really real facts time:
SEED was created by one writer. The premise, the main characters, the basics of the world, etc. Then that premise was passed on to another writer(s) to make the actual story. Those writers leaned way hard into the implications of genetic engineering and the whole natural/coordinator dicohotomy and just built Kira's character around the concept of "pure coordinator", completely forgetting the "Superior Evolutionary Element Destined" factor except for one throwaway line in a recap clip episode. It was supposed to be something akin to Deikun's theory about newtypes, that these people were the precursors of the next stage of human evolution, but the series writers had no idea what to do with that. They apparently still remembered that it was supposed to be a thing because they kept scripting the weird seed-drop moments but it was never developed into anything more than an artistic shorthand for "shit just got REAL".
>>
>>22552038
*for Cagali have
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>>22552038
>>22552214
How many fucking times have you been banned already, bikini-schizo? Don't you get tired of shitting out your insanity?
>>
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>>22551883
>What does AGE have to do with a Gundam Seed thread?
One of the key elements of AGE is the eponymous Device. Before the show aired, people thought it was going to work like the watch in Giant Robo: a fancy remote control device that the hero uses to send orders to the machine. This would've been a first for Gundam, since even with psycommu and the Flash System, the pilot is always physically inside the mobile suit.
In actuality, the AGE Device is more akin to a portable hard drive and holds the data to build the Gundams. The franchise hasn't had any sort of remote operation (with the pilot on a different place) until SEED Freedom, and even here Cagalli is piloting the Rouge (,,,).
>>
>>22552038

>Earthling like Cagali

Cagalli was born on Mendel colony, you dumb twat. If you bothered to pay attention instead of thinking about anuses and aliens in the wrong fucking series, you would know that.
>>
>>22552313
>>22552038
>>22552315
Why don't you go defecate your Bionicle nonsense on the /srw/ thread?
>>
>>22551763
>>This has HUGE implications concerning the nature of naturals and coordinators and may change the nature of the conflict
It's just a powerup that few in the setting from any genetic type can use.
>>
>>22551763
Gundam SEED
>4 characters has SEED mode
Gundam SEED destiny
>1 new character has SEED mode, 1 returning character forgets how to use it
Gundam SEED freedom
>0 new characters has SEED mode
I think the universe can only support 4 characters with it. Not to mention the whole SEED factor is only mentioned by like 1 person in passing and forgotten afterwards
>>
What if Flay had the SEED factor?
>>
>>22557665
>high-speed emotional manipulation
>>
>>22552277
Early shitpost/misinfo AGE where everyone thought Flit was gonna control the Gundam with a smartphone would have been better than the finished product.
>>
>>22552277
That's just people being retarded. Garrod had a wacky toyetic device to interface with Gundam X too. Wild assumptions are just that.
It's very funny that people thought AGE was going to be a kiddy departure from the norm for Gundam when in reality it was one of the most needlessly bleak series and played so close to the UC playbook that it was often too predictable.
>>
>>22551911
>It was supposed to be something akin to Deikun's theory about newtypes, that these people were the precursors of the next stage of human evolution
Not that it matters since the CE universe literally has Newtypes.
>>
tbf, I do get why it's upsetting that Cagalli never activates it again. A Natural obtaining SEED mode is a gigantic deal in-universe, it flies in the face of Coordinator superiority and shows that humanity's true potential was deep inside all along, not created through genetic tampering.
And then I don't think a single other Natural obtains it, meanwhile SEED reaches what's effectively a form of in-universe enlightenment by getting angry enough.
>>
>>22558548
It's more that it's like concrete confirmation that the story is throwing her under the bus.
>>
>>22551772
it was supposed to be a berserk status that turns you into murder machine
but they decided to drop the ball by bringing back the character whose whole point was to make it evident
then it is just a special snowflake status
>>
>>22558550
Ok but we could've had another Natural obtain it. I know people might dislike this idea but image Stella obtained it right before she died, allowing her to be at peace that her life that has only known war has ended.
>>
>>22558553
>image
imagine*
>>
>>22558425
finished product had flaws, but still was better than OG SEED, let alone its continuations
AGE at least delivers what is in its name, by aging up own characters
SEED is purposeless in SEED. You can cut it off, just have characters go more killer happy/panic when SEED actually was something dramatic, and nothing would change.
And battles were superior in AGE in every way
>>
>>22558573
And AGE has cuter and hotter girls.
>>
>>22557665
>Flay
>SEED
Super-Erratic Emotional Drama?
>>
>>22551772
Seed is just something there for the audiences who need their character to all be super snowflakes
>>
>>22551775
She does get some buffs/spirits on SRW, even if that also never bothers to dwell too much on the 'WTF is the SEED?' question anyway.
>>
>>22551763
>>22551772
>>22551775
There's a lot of really heavy and interesting implications about genetics and genetic engineering in SEED that the story never gets into because Fukuda just wants to make a simple black & white Star Wars esque hero narrative while one of the background writers wanted to do a sci-fi mecha anime.
SEED is just treated like the force in Star Wars. Only the good guys who are central to the plot can get it.

One other thing to note is Rau, a Natural, is able to keep up not with just coordinators, but also Kira in SEED mode.

>>22558510
That last arc of AGE where they just started killing off everybody honestly shocked me, I was expecting a more upbeat show. It's on par with Victory, except because it was made by Level-5 they still treat it like a normal kids shounen where everyone is oddly still pretty upbeat even though they've lost like 30 allies by the end of the show. It has a really weird dissonance for that reason.
>>
>>22561032
>There's a lot of really heavy and interesting implications about genetics and genetic engineering in SEED that the story never gets into because Fukuda just wants to make a simple black & white Star Wars esque hero narrative while one of the background writers wanted to do a sci-fi mecha anime.

That's actually a problem a friend of mine has with Fukuda. He puts stuff into the show because he thinks it's cool, but he never fully considers the implications of what's being said. Like, now Lacus is a secret type of Coordinator who can brainwash people made to control governments but Fukuda doesn't think about it any further than "that's cool." He doesn't think how this recontextualizes her interactions with others throughout the story of SEED, especially since people have been wondering what's her deal because she doesn't act human since the original SEED.
>>
>>22561186
That's why the only way to watch SEED and have it make any sense is to basically take the Star Wars attitude towards it and not think of it as a series trying to be nuanced about war, but rather "light vs dark".
Kira and Lacus are right because they are good, Rau and Durandal are wrong because they are bad. It's all about where the momentum of the story's emotions want to go.
This is why I also think of SEED as a shoujo Gundam rather than a shounen one.
>>
>>22561193
fwiw I also don't hate SEED for this or anything, once I adjusted to this realization it's a pretty fun series and I can see why so many people like it.
>>
>>22561193
I can't do that. SEED, well, I don't want to say it insists upon itself like a pretentious teenager that thinks they have these deep thoughts. Rather, SEED is the guy who is always going on about being the coolest one around and makes an ass of themself, continuously escalating in order to do so.
>>
>>22561186
>>22561032
A lot of the (unused) background setting and lore in CE is made up by people like Shigeru Morita, who served not only in general writing roles but also acted like Sunrise's "scientific advisor" on a bunch of sci-fi stories. Then Morosawa was brought in (at least in part by Fukada's efforts) to come up with a story to fit the world setting, being credited roles for story composition, scriptwriting, and general plotting of the show. And then in turn, Fukada directs the story and puts his spin on it as part of the execution.

As far as I can recall reading about, the setting and decision to have genetics be one of the driving topics of the CE world was already more or less decided by the time Morosawa came onto the project. That said, wasn't GSF supposed to be based on drafts or concepts by Morosawa, but fleshed out by other writers?
>>
>>22561032
>One other thing to note is Rau, a Natural, is able to keep up not with just coordinators, but also Kira in SEED mode.

Yeah but Rau was a clone of a guy who genetics were so amazing he refused to accept anything less than a direct clone of himself as his heir.
>>
>>22561032
>the force in Star Wars
>Only the good guys who are central to the plot can get it
You know jackshit about Star Wars.
>>
>>22561186
>especially since people have been wondering what's her deal because she doesn't act human since the original SEED
That's just an overexaggeration made by weird autists who can't cope with the fact that her character's just somewhat blander in Destiny.
>>
>>22561032
>One other thing to note is Rau, a Natural, is able to keep up not with just coordinators, but also Kira in SEED mode.
Rau and Mu were both actual newtypes. Like UC kind. Apparently they exist in limited numbers in Seed, but mostly go unnoticed due to Coordinators being the main concern. That's how Mu was so good at piloting, and how Rau managed to blend in at a coordinator society (I'm pretty sure he wasn't one himself).
>>
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>>22561486
>>22561032
Let's post this again, shall we?
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>>22561537
Being a newtype would give them better reflexes, but that alone shouldn't be quite the same as genetic enhancement that allows them to pilot a MS like a coordinator does. I mean, the EA had their own supersoldier program that developed the druggies and the extended, with the intention of producing soldiers that are on par with or even better than coordinators, right? That said, CE never bothered to really explain why there's a difference in MS piloting between coordinators and naturals. I have heard the explanation about MS controls in CE utilizing some form of neural interface, but as far as I know that's kind of an afterthought based on some of the engrish that pops up on the computer screens and some technical mumbo-jumbo that Kira mentions while reprogramming the Strike, but isn't really substantiated by any kind of typical side material like databooks or story content.

There's also the thing that CE genetic engineering is still imperfect because sometimes the kid didn't develop as planned - that was originally the whole point of Kira being the ultimate coordinator that came exactly as designed, developed inside an artificial womb. In theory, geneticists are putting together the most desirable genes to meet the demands of the parents playing around with a RPG character creator for their kid. Aren't the scientists modifying with and using the best genetic stock they have? The stock had to come from desirable genetic templates or specimens of existing human beings, didn't they?

Does that mean there are low tier coordinators who barely register as being better than a natural because they developed poorly, the parents couldn't afford to get the best treatment, and/or their parents had shit genes to begin with? Conversely, in theory doesn't that mean there could be naturals who hit the genetic jackpot in the casino of life and were essentially born gifted with good genes making them on par with coordinators? There's your Al Da Flaga.
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>>22551763
>SNEED
Walk into traffic
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>>22561537
Is Rau Earthling then?
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>>22558611
This alien girl is cuter than any Age,IBO, G-woke girls.
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>>22551763
SEED is full of bait shit like that. I don’t think it’s ever been acknowledged that Mu and Rau were just newtypes, or what newtypes were even doing in SEED.
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>>22561186
Lacus was always a walking plot device.
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>>22561993
And her cod roe lip is for sucking Kira's Earthling dick for communication. She is alien.
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>>22561696
Never post this trash again, pseud.
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>>22561746
>>22562000
Kys
>>
>>22552310

I think he meant Cagalli was born a Natural, wheras her twin brother was a genetically modified Coordinator.
>>
>>22562003
It's true, you know. All of those nonsense powers (SEED factor, in this case) are deus ex machina so the "story" gives a way for the heroes to win.

>pseud
Neck yourself.
>>
>>22562380
Characters don't need SEED factor or whatever to win, the writer can just write "the protagonist wins". SEED factor exists because some writer thought Kira going into a berserker rage of clarity of thought was cool, and he was right.
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>>22561186
I'm seriously fucking tired of dumbasses like this. There's a lot of bad writing surrounding Lacus you can throw at Fukuda et al, such as her treason, or her magically having a private MS development corps in Destiny. But if you can't understand why a songstress, scion of a great political family, and SAVIOR OF THE FUCKING WORLD might have some serious influence or sway, kys. It would be disturbing if she wasn't beloved by the time Destiny starts.
>>
>>22561193
Rau wanted to blow up the Earth, and Destiny ends with Kira acknowledging the public might prefer the loss of freedom, but that Kira will never accept that type of world. How are you this dense?!
>>
>>22562633
Rau's solution is obviously wrong, Durandal's are more debatable, but the underlying issues they bring up aren't refuted by Kira in any satisfactory manner.
Kira just goes "that's not true!" or "people aren't like that" when throughout the entire series we have seen that people are indeed like that.
There is a way for Rau to be refuted using the material already existing in SEED, but they just don't go for it and instead have Kira shout platitudes.
>>
>>22562380
>Neck yourself.
You first, Reddit-Spacing-kun.
>>
>>22562781
Oh, look. It's the clever sack of shit with his cute nicknames!
>>
>>22562658
>There is a way for Rau to be refuted using the material already existing in SEED, but they just don't go for it and instead have Kira shout platitudes.
That's because the series is not interested in the slightest in the world as a whole. Fukuda only wants to show his main cast being cool, blasting their enemies in splashy scenes.
Especially Kira and Lacus, because they are the most powerful and bestest ever and they are powered by their love and all that cringey crap.

Fukuda is not a storytelling person in the slightest, but rather an animator by training with "ideas" (a bunch of them bad) that may or may not have some connection with each other as a coherent narrative. He doesn't care if things make sense or not.
The interviews with Morosawa point out that he was butting heads with (presumably) more experienced screenwriters during Dendoh's pre-production, so he brought in his wife as head writer to just execute on his whims.
>>
>>22562633
>Kira acknowledging the public might prefer the loss of freedom, but that Kira will never accept that type of world
In other words, it's preferable for people to keep dying if that means they are "free", whatever the fuck that means. Worse of all, he's the one making the decision in everyone's name, taking into his hands the lives and deaths of uncountable thousands.
The movie tries to give some moral weight to Kira's decision to stop Durandal's scheme, but it's only there to say "he's in paaaaain!" and not much else. The movie's aftermath is still a world grappled by violence and mutual mistrust.
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>>22562791
>Fukuda is not a storytelling person in the slightest
I actually disagree here, he is, just not this type of story.
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>>22562631
>But if you can't understand why a songstress, scion of a great political family, and SAVIOR OF THE FUCKING WORLD might have some serious influence or sway

Wow you missed the point so hard. Lacus is influential because she has sub-conscious Accord mental influence powers that make people love her. It changes everything.
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>>22563090
>Lacus is influential because she has sub-conscious Accord mental influence powers that make people love her. It changes everything.
I don't know if that makes things better or worse.
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>>22563090
According to Fukuda you can't use the power if you don't aware of it
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>>22562633
>>22562658
Why does Rau want to blow up the Earth despite he is Earthling outcast, not actually zaft alien unlike Athrun,Yzak,Dearka?
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>>22569618
Rau just hates everybody. He wants to kill the coordinators too.
His goal was the destruction of humanity.
The episode about his backstory and connection to Mwu explains this.
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>>22569618
>implying he's not born in space
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>>22569662
But Rau is born from house Flaga.
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>>22569670
Still a clone "born" in space (Mendel Colony), and you should know this if you have actually watched the show you schizo.
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>>22569709
Were Naturals not always Earthlings?
>>
>Bikinischizo doesn't actually watch the shows

Not shocking. Rau gives a big speech and spells out his motivations.
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>>22569726
At this point it's almost like the schizos are paid to be here, they're so fucking low quality.
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>>22563090
It didn't work on Rau
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>>22569726
The pattern with bikini-schizo is quite telling. He makes a stupid question about the show's characters, at the same time he inserts his non-sequiturs about "Earthlings" and "Aliens".
>>
>>22569711
>>22569618
How many fucking times do we have to tell you? None of the characters in gundam seed are "aliens".
Do you even understand what I am saying here? Cut it out with this crap, please.
>>
>>22569815
Sure it did. He liked her singing. That's high praise from Rau. So he will enjoy her song while the world burns.

Lacus moved the Eau needle from "I want to see everyone burn" to "Hmm...nice song. Still gonna burn the world though."
>>
>>22569874
Were ZAFT people humans too? I thought them as alien or xenos.
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>>22569874
There's no point in trying to get through to him, anon, the esl is too strong.
>>
Fukuda keeps coming back to SEED. But, when is he gonna come back to Dragonar? It's clearly on his mind still. He needs to leverage his renewed clout and make a new Dragonar. I would also accept a new Dendoh.

Excited for Grendizer U though.
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>>22551763
>muh waifu
>>
>>22552277
>The franchise hasn't had any sort of remote operation (with the pilot on a different place) until SEED Freedom
Is that not the entire premise of the original Build Fighters since it's just fancy toy battles?
>>
Is Generation of C.E. the closest we have to a SEED version of Gihren's Greed?
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>>22552277
>The franchise hasn't had any sort of remote operation (with the pilot on a different place) until SEED Freedom
G Gundam had Rain using a telepathic headset to control the Shining Gundam from thousands of miles away. Gundam X had remote operation through G-Bits. In 00 there was a moment when Tieria remotely reactivates his trashed Gundam to eject and take control of the backpack MS. AGE had a couple of moments where Desil was controlling allied mobile suits in the same battle, once with a hostage in the cockpit of the controlled machine, and another time where he forcibly takes control of two unwilling allied MS to get an advantage in a fight with the main character. In Victory, Uso is able to briefly control other Victory Gundam modules. He uses an empty torso with a beam sabre for extra reach, but it's not limp, he can control the saber in that module's hands as though it were in his own Gundam's hands.

Then there's UC in general seemingly having remote control of Dodai-type platforms, as well as other series' equivalents like the Guuls in Seed.

>>22570744
>Is that not the entire premise of the original Build Fighters since it's just fancy toy battles?
Well yes, but it's also some kind of vague holographic+physical video game involving augmented reality that makes use of some kind of advanced particle manipulation physics to move plastic dolls on a tabletop right next to the player, rather than a battlefield where there could be ECM, ECCM, vision by looking through cameras, wireless distances of tens, hundreds, or thousands of miles, etc.
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>>22570329
>Were ZAFT people humans too?
Yes, they were humans. Enhanced humans, but humans nevertheless. Don't you get it yet?
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>>22571222
>G Gundam had Rain using a telepathic headset to control the Shining Gundam from thousands of miles away.
>Gundam X had remote operation through G-Bits.
>In 00 there was a moment when Tieria remotely reactivates his trashed Gundam to eject and take control of the backpack MS.
>AGE had a couple of moments where Desil was controlling allied mobile suits in the same battle, once with a hostage in the cockpit of the controlled machine, and another time where he forcibly takes control of two unwilling allied MS to get an advantage in a fight with the main character.
>In Victory, Uso is able to briefly control other Victory Gundam modules. He uses an empty torso with a beam sabre for extra reach, but it's not limp, he can control the saber in that module's hands as though it were in his own Gundam's hands.
Do any of those examples have the pilot in anything other than an MS cockpit? Core Fighters count as cockpits by their very definition? As in, something like a control station installed on the ground or on a battleship?
Sorry if I wasn't clear, because that is what I meant: piloting a mobile suit (or its parts) remotely from anything/anywhere that isn't a standard MS cockpit.
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>>22571140
No. Gihren's greed is Grand strategy. Gen of CE is just SD GGEN with full-scale models.
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>>22571339
I meant in terms of having What If scenarios, though I heard the game came out or at least was still being developed while Destiny was still airing.
>>
>>22571332
Rain was wearing the headset by a seaside pier when controlling the Shining Gundam.
Tieria was a digitized consciousness inside a computer at the time that he remotely moved his Gundam. Also, in Zeta and ZZ Gundam Four was able to mentally command the Psyco Gundam to move after the psyco-chair was installed as part of a small upgrade, and Puru Two wore a headset that let her summon her Qubeley to come to her.

I'll admit that most of these were just basic movements and not something that would have allowed them to pilot the MS perfectly as if they were at the controls, although Puru Two seemed to be able to remote control her Qubeley including her funnels fairly well.
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>>22571363
>although Puru Two seemed to be able to remote control her Qubeley including her funnels fairly well.
It is still pretty much like a Tesla driver summoning the car with its FOB, rather than actual remote combat operation, which does mandate being in a cockpit: note that the funnels only start firing after Puru Two is inside.
This kind of proves my point that Gundam as a whole really does not like the idea of having characters controlling mobile suits (beyond bare basic movements) unless it's from a standard MS cockpit, even when it's remotely, such as the G-Bits or Cagalli's trick with the Infinite Justice.

>Tieria was a digitized consciousness inside a computer at the time that he remotely moved his Gundam.
That's similar in nature to Rita's soul controlling the wild Phenex.

By the way, thank you for the WEBMs!
>>
>>22571332
>>22571363

There was a brief experiment with remotely controlling the Psycho Gundam for combat in Zeta, not just calling it, although Four couldn't take it for long so it wasn't used for real.

DOME in X controlled the G-Bits guarding the moon base from the moon base itself without a single core "DOME" suit.
>>
>>22571422
>note that the funnels only start firing after Puru Two is inside.
I'll bring up another point though - the funnels start firing when Puru is standing in the cockpit entrance, not after she's already seated down with hands on the controls. She was also able to remotely control the funnels to intentionally crash into the Neo Zeon soldiers operating the petite worker MS, and that was long before she got in the cockpit.

>This kind of proves my point that Gundam as a whole really does not like the idea of having characters controlling mobile suits (beyond bare basic movements) unless it's from a standard MS cockpit
Yep that's true, but then it also brings up the question that if a mobile suit could be controlled adequately without needing the standard controls, then what are the controls needed for (other than being the backup method of controlling).

>By the way, thank you for the WEBMs!
No problem. I take requests too if you want (and if I happen to have the footage). Here's Four commanding the Psyco Gundam to come to her location, initially confusing the Titans officer sitting in the Psyco's cockpit trying to move it himself.
>>
>>22571431
>DOME in X controlled the G-Bits guarding the moon base from the moon base itself without a single core "DOME" suit.
That would be similar to the examples of Rita and Tieria. Disembodied consciousnesses, ghosts in the system, exerting control over machines.
>>
>>22571422
>This kind of proves my point that Gundam as a whole really does not like the idea of having characters controlling mobile suits (beyond bare basic movements) unless it's from a standard MS cockpit, even when it's remotely, such as the G-Bits or Cagalli's trick with the Infinite Justice

Tomino said that the setting of Gundam only works if there is some sort of jamming that prevents long range communications and controls.

Without that, there's no reason for mobile suits to exist.

Ships can just spam precision missiles, nukes, and other weapons from a distance. No need for MS.
>>
>>22571445
>Tomino said that the setting of Gundam only works if there is some sort of jamming that prevents long range communications and controls.
>Without that, there's no reason for mobile suits to exist.
>Ships can just spam precision missiles, nukes, and other weapons from a distance. No need for MS.
Tell that to Fukuda. He's the one that put Cagalli controlling the Justice from 235 thousand miles away with no interference whatsoever from N-Jammers or the like. There isn't even a clear line of sight.
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>>22571445
>>22571445
Forgot to mention that the whole point of this debate was whether was it really necessary for Cagalli to be piloting the Rouge in order to take remote control of the Justice. Wouldn't it be easier and safer for everyone involved to do that from an underground station?
As it has been pointed out before, the franchise as a whole can portray remote combat operation, but only from an MS cockpit. That old thing about "visual combat only" has been thrown to the wayside over the years.
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>>22571460
I don't know man. What do you want from me? I can't explain it unless Cagalli has some sort of newtype power. The whole movie was basically member berries, huge power creep, and patching problems Seed Destiny had. I was *entertained*, but the movie doesn't really expand the Seed universe or add to the world building. I'm not even sure where they could go story wise now. All enemies are defeated.
>>
You know what I find funny about the pilot suit Lacus wears for SEED Freedom that was leaked before the movie came out: it wasn't the first time Lacus got a skimpy outfit.

See pic related. I even encircled the outfit in question.
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>>22571963
I’d introduce an evil AI. Seems the logical next step after Durandal. AI sets about trying to control humanity while not understanding “humanity”, so there’s a topic Kira can hold seven speeches on.
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>>22572191


Neat idea. Although AI by just itself is really bland (the latest Mission Impossible movie did poorly because the main villain is a faceless AI). It would need to be something like Gundam 00. But An evil version of Veda where the AI can download copies of itself into remote control bodies.
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>>22572191
Add a time skip too. At least 10 years
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>>22571445
Or long range communications just don't work at sufficient ranges or without enough accuracy. We still have people operating a lot of tech that we have remote versions for.
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>>22572191
>>22572211
That's just Age of Ultron all over again.
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>>22571963
NTA but I actually think it's to do with Cavalier units. They could be acting as relays for each other, since both have an MS equivalent of a modern AWACs CnC suite on board that were both manned. I'd like some more info on em since they're kind of interesting.
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>>22572211
What about AI mind replicas of villains like in UC?
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>>22572282
Coordinator - Yamato, Kira. Now you are one with ALLMIND.
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>>22571963
>>22572275
There's a bigger issue at hand, though: the speed of light. A round trip takes 2.5 seconds, plus whatever lag sensors and computers introduce to the system.
Needless to say that Fukuda never takes such things into consideration.
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>>22572211
I dunno then, fuck it, maybe the AI is actually Azrael or something. Maybe it was based on his neural imprint and it's the "final revenge" of Blue Cosmos, presenting an apocalyptic threat that everyone can unite against as 'humanity'.
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>>22572522
>I dunno then, fuck it, maybe the AI is actually Azrael or something. Maybe it was based on his neural imprint and it's the "final revenge" of Blue Cosmos
It's amusing that FREEDOM forgot all about Logos, the centuries-long conspiracy that ruled the world until Durandal revealed its existence.
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>>22572546
what the fucking what when were they mentioned - I fucking swear I never saw that when I saw Destiny. Then again that was a long time ago, I might have just forgotten
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>>22572564
>what the fucking what when were they mentioned - I fucking swear I never saw that when I saw Destiny.
Here, Anon:
https://youtu.be/hdYxpfRM6eo?t=866
Durandal also points out that ZAFT has supported "those seeking independence from Eurasia for humanitarian reasons", somewhat foreshadowing the appearance of Foundation.

There's something else I noticed when I rewatched the scene. Apparently, the whole thing about the Destroy's rampage and the battle in Berlin was not public knowledge until Durandal revealed it in his broadcast, and Djibril goes ballistic when that happens.
Durandal claims that there are policies on various nations to withhold war information, but it's absurd to think that you could keep a major city being wiped off the map in secret.
>>
Everything because Kira Yamato again, if he does not exist do you think DP will be realized? Durandal maybe didn't die, Orphee don't need to nuke to get Lacus
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>>22571332
>As in, something like a control station installed on the ground or on a battleship?
Dorothy controls tons of MD using the Zero System while she's on Libra and they're out fighting including complex formations that require concentration. Zechs does the same but with only 3 or 4 units while piloting Epyon.
>>
>>22572582
>Durandal claims that there are policies on various nations to withhold war information, but it's absurd to think that you could keep a major city being wiped off the map in secret.
That is true, but it's likely that Logos might have prepared a cover story blaming ZAFT for it. There is the precedence with stuff like Ouroboros and Porta Panama Bay, for example.
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>>22572638
>There is the precedence with stuff like Ouroboros and Porta Panama Bay, for example.
That's a possibility (and Durandal only jumped the gun at them), although Djibril really seemed that he didn't want the Destroy's existence to be revealed to the world at large.
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>>22572618
>Dorothy controls tons of MD using the Zero System while she's on Libra and they're out fighting including complex formations that require concentration
Now, you see, this is the stuff!
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>>22572615
>Everything because Kira Yamato again, if he does not exist do you think DP will be realized? Durandal maybe didn't die, Orphee don't need to nuke to get Lacus
Stop hiding yourself, vermin. The only person that makes that sort of stupid questions in broken English is Bikini-Schizo.
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>>22572546
>LALLY
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>>22572546
Didn't basically all of the known members of LOGOS were arrested in the aftermath of Operation Ragnarok when Djbril sneaked away?

>>22572582
>It's absurd to think that you could keep a major city being wiped off the map in secret.
It wasn't just Berlin but basically a huge chunk of Central / Western Eurasia since three (assumed major) cities were already destroyed before Berlin, and it could've rampaged all the way to ZAFT's Gibraltar base if it wasn't for the intervention by both AA and Minerva. And that scale of destruction probably accelerated Eurasia Federation's resentment towards Altantic Federation even further given what had happened since SEED.
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>>22572713
>Didn't basically all of the known members of LOGOS were arrested in the aftermath of Operation Ragnarok when Djbril sneaked away?
Exactly. And Durandal made a point that "Blue Cosmos" was nothing but a creation of Logos. A cheap puppet to rally Earth's masses against Coordinators.

>And that scale of destruction probably accelerated Eurasia Federation's resentment towards Atlantic Federation even further given what had happened since SEED.
That's a given, but how does that square with Eurasia giving covert support to Blue Cosmos during FREEDOM? Wasn't it made clear that it was ZAFT who saved them from further destruction?
Furthermore, if the resentment is so great, how come the "Earth Alliance" continues to exist in CE 75?

https://zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=11278
>FUKUDA: In the latter half of SEED DESTINY, there was concern over nations beginning to secede from the Eurasian Federation with the support of LOGOs were emerging.
Wait, what? I don't remember anyone from Eurasia seceding with Logos' help during Destiny. In fact, Eurasia was probably Logos' greatest victim.
Fukuda is either misremembering or making shit up on the spot.
>>
>>22572618
>>22572642
She also engages in a fencing duel with one of the Gundam pilots while still wearing the helmet, so I'm not sure the formations require concentration, though.

She specifically says they've hooked up the mobile dolls to the zero system so they can perform strategic maneuvers as opposed to the basic "move here, attack this" type of commands they were limited to before. From her end I would think it's more like an RTS game like Total War or something.
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>>22572733
>From her end I would think it's more like an RTS game like Total War or something.
There's a much better example.
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>>22572618
>>22572733
Speaking of Zechs doing the same thing..

He uses the mobile dolls as a barrier to protect himself and put up defensive fire as he tries to take Quatre out of the fight first, reasoning that Quatre forms the brains of the group (and that the rest are just the muscles).
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>>22572728
I haven't seen Destiny in over a decade, but what I understood was that the conflict in Eurasia was essentially a civil war: many central and western Eurasian territories were effectively seceding from the Eurasian Federation proper, while the government itself remained aligned with the Atlantic Federation. I remember Gladys explaining something along those lines to Athrun in pic related, if I'm not mistaken, before the Gulhanan battle. Although we never learn more about the inner workings of Eurasia, what I'm about to say is purely speculation, but I think we are given hints about where said government is centered - particularly the Bonaparte staging its attack from European Russia.
So my interpretation was always that the Eurasian government itself was still upholding its alliance with the Atlantic Federation, and that it was just (presumably, at least) individual member states which were trying to separate, due to a combination of grievances from the previous war, against the Atlantic Federation's own policies towards Eurasia, opposing yet another war in such a short amount of time, and the Eurasian government itself just being shitty all around.
But again, the show itself doesn't really convey this very clearly (not does it really need to, for that matter), so it's just a matter of speculation.
>>
I take that back: they actually lay out the situation quite clearly. Too lazy to make a collage, so I'll just post the screenshots one by one.
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>>22572771
Way ahead of you, but continue with the rest.

>Too lazy to make a collage
IrfanView does it for you in a few clicks.
>>
>>
>>
Athrun even brings this up, which may or may not tie to what happens in the previous series.

>>22572776
This is dumb, but I totally forgot that IrfanView even existed. I'll keep that in mind for next time.
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>>22561537
>rau was never a coordinator
>flaga sr. was simply that much of a chad
Holy shit
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>>22572782
I am not sure whether PLANT/ZAFT ever find out that Rau was the one who leaked everything, let alone Atlantic Federation using the leaked info to basically screw Eurasia Federation over.
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>>22572787
They didn't, but they knew they had been somehow set up. Zala just thinks that it was Lacus and the Clyne faction, never suspecting Rau.
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>>22572733
The first time she uses it Quatre breaks her concentration and she disengages and orders Libra to fire in frustration. Zechs says it was too early for her to control the Zero System.
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>>22572546
To be fair, the only one who really talks about Logos is Durandal, Djbril and the Logos guys themselves never really seem to mention it and just get pissed that everyone is listening to Durandal. If not for the side material apparently confirming that Logos was really a thing and not just Durandal BSing you could almost think he made the whole thing up just to have some convenient boogyman to justify his drastic measures taken that he could lump anyone who opposes him into. All he's accusing them of is being rich and powerful and in a position to influence the world. Later on he even starts accusing people he knows damn well are not part of it (ie Kira's group) in order to keep his plans going.
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>>22573306
>he even starts accusing people he knows damn well are not part of it (ie Kira's group) in order to keep his plans going
To be fair, Team Kira didn't help themselves by jumping in to help Orb while Orb was harbouring Djibril, but otherwise sitting on the sidelines during all the other anti-LOGOS battles. Not that this suddenly makes him right or justified, but Durandal ran rings around Kira and co in terms of PR and public image. Even Lacus pulling that gotcha on Meer didn't actually seem to hurt Durandal much in the grand scheme of things.
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>>22573319
Given the one major Logos incident they did help out in Durandal edited them out of and claimed that Zaft alone saved Berlin there was really nothing Kira and Lacus could do on that front with the kind of control and playing dirty Durandal was doing. Even if they'd been on top of Logos all show it wouldn't have mattered, Durandal would have just edited the footage to what he wanted the story to be. By the time Lacus finally outed Meer Durandal had gotten enough good press for himself that he didn't need "Lacus" anymore.
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>>22573319
Was Berlin the only time they ever treated LOGOS as a threat? I think most of the time Durandal was the bigger priority for them.
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>>22573319
>>22573330

In episode 38 they were unable to do anything because they were still down for the count after Angel Down, which Durandal ordered because he didn't want them poking around during that. Not like they could even try to help with no Freedom and a beaten up AA. The only one they really deliberately no showed was the Requiem fight which seemed to be just the writers giving Shinn one final hurrah before he ate shit in the finale and didn't think of how it made Team Kira look to not seem to care about it.
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>>22573329
>there was really nothing Kira and Lacus could do on that front with the kind of control and playing dirty Durandal was doing.
Lacus could've made a broadcast earlier and expose the Meer fraud, rather than just going the route of "sit and wait what happens".
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>>22573341
I feel like I remember them being upset about that since it meant Durandal was going to gain more support.
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>>22573346
Their logic was that making any kind of broadcast would basically just expose Lacus's position and allow Durandal to locate either AA or Eternal's hiding places and go out to attack them though that logic was kind of shaky with how hard it was for them to find AA to begin with. It's why they waited until Durandal found Eternal, but Lacus snuck down to Orb in IJ before broadcasting because he wouldn't be able to immediately respond (not like he could attack Orb again just to kill Lacus after failing to get Djbril)
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>>22573357
They were upset Heavens Base was wiped out by Durandal's new Gundam's so quickly but that was mostly because they correctly figured Orb would be the next place Djbril ran to/Durandal attacked to get him and/or also trying to conquer it in the process.
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I'm watching Gundam Seed and I have a question.

During the Battle of Orb when the Earth Alliance Gundams run out of power and retreat, how come Kira and Athrun don't chase them down? They have nuclear power and can keep going. The enemy Gundams ran out of power and can't stop them. Nothing in the Earth Alliance fleet can stop Freedom and Justice Gundam. As far as I can tell, Kira and Athrun could sink the entire Earth Alliance invasion fleet right then and there.
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>>22573567
Kira and Athrun know they have another ten episodes left, so they don't bother.
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>>22561696
>autistic faggot who talks out his ass has been spamming the same meme image for over a decade
https://desuarchive.org/m/search/filename/plot%20coupon/
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/7429595/#7431912
You hate to see it
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>>22573570
I was kind of hoping for more of an "in universe" answer.
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>>22573623
Oh. Uh, honestly, I'm still trying to figure that out myself. Fukuda shows make a lot more sense when you realise that Fukuda cares solely about the what and when, and not the how or why.
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>>22573623
Their mindset has never been "permanently put down any threats before they become a greater problem" and when fighting they are generally more defensive than aggressive. Sure there are some occasions where they go on the attack, but they still tend not to fight exclusively to secure kills, is what I mean.

Thinking about it, Shinn's sort of the opposite - he will try to secure killing blows whenever he can, but against the extended he doesn't often get the chance. He definitely does raze the enemy fleet during that one episode where he goes all-in with the sword pack, though. And it becomes silly when you consider that he's stabbed both Kira and Athrun's machines through the chest with what most people would think have been killing blows, but ended up missing the cockpit on both occasions and only destroying the MS, not killing the pilot even though Shinn had lethal intent in both cases.
>>
Is it known when the BluRays will come out yet? I'd like to finally watch the damn movie.
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>>22573809
It's not happening anytime soon. At least not for several more months. With the success of the Seed movie in theaters, Bandai is going to milk it with Western theater releases as much as possible.

If you want to see it soon, then go see it in theaters.
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>>22573594
Are you that hostile, rage-filled motherfucker that keeps ruining SEED threads with nonsensical /pol/ garbage about "treaties" and "neutrality"?
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>>22573641
>>22573623
>>22573567
Kira and Athrun had clean opportunities to kill the worthless fucking druggies on several occasions.
>dangerous foes that are just floating in the air defenselessly, not even taking the chance to disable them
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>>22574148 (part two)
>instead of shooting at the pukes, they fire AT THE FUCKING WATER
It's not farfetched to think that Orb's people will get pointlessly massacred by those three assholes
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>>22574154
>note that the Justice has its beam saber drawn throughout the sequence. Why didn't he use it?
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>>22573976
>Bandai is going to milk it with Western theater releases as much as possible.
>If you want to see it soon, then go see it in theaters.
Good joke. Western markets have never been anywhere near a priority for Sunrise.
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>>22574154
Actually I was watching with a friend recently and he made a good point about that one. Quote "If they fired right at them wouldn't the green one have just deflected it and possibly hit them or the ship?" And yeah that's probably not the best position for either them or Kusanagi to risk a stray shot.
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>>22573623
The in universe answer is that isn't Kira and Athrun's style to just massacre all in their way and they'd rather the enemy back off and give up than kill them all. Which is consistent all the way into Destiny. It takes alot for Kira to decide to kill someone and just being annoying isn't a reason.
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>>22574422
Yep, otherwise either of them would have killed Shinn when they fought him.
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>>22574418
>Actually I was watching with a friend recently and he made a good point about that one. Quote "If they fired right at them wouldn't the green one have just deflected it and possibly hit them or the ship?"
No, you fire at Calamity and Raider, especially the latter. Removing two out of three of the dangerous twats is a good idea.
And no, it wouldn't have hit them, since Geschmeidig Panzer only curves the beams to the sides, not reflect them. Akatsuki's armor can do that, however.
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>>22574445
>No, you fire at Calamity and Raider, especially the latter. Removing two out of three of the dangerous twats is a good idea.

Forbidden could move in front and shield them like it's supposed to. Shani usually doesn't do this for his side because he's an asshole but occasionally he has.

>And no, it wouldn't have hit them, since Geschmeidig Panzer only curves the beams to the sides, not reflect them.

While it's not as certain as Akatsuki's direct reflecting it CAN potentially do that if the angle is right. At least a few times Forbidden reflected a shot in a complete loop instead of just directly to it's sides such as when Shani tries to angle one of Orga's shots at Athrun (and almost hits Clotho instead) in episode 37.
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>>22574481
>Shani usually doesn't do this for his side because he's an asshole
That's not saying much. All three are assholes.
Say what you will about the Extended, but, unlike the Druggie dipshits, at least these three worked together somewhat effectively.
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>>22574148
>>22574154
>>22574156
Think of Seed mecha battles like jet Fighters dogfighting.

The druggies work as a 3 team. If Athrun stops continously moving for a few seconds to land a finishing blow, then the other two druggies will move in during that opening and and attack Athrun. Maybe even sacrificing their teammates to land a killing blow. Athrun had to do hit and run tactics to cover himself.

If you shoot at Raider or Forbidden, then Calamity will snipe you. If you shoot at Forbidden, then it will block and deflect the attack. Then the other two snipe you. If you attack Raider or Calamity, then Forbidden might step in to block and the other two attack from the flanks or behind you.
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>>22574154
This was excusable since the priority was for the Kusanagi escape and to give them cover. The water wave bought them several seconds and pushed back the extended pilots from getting into weapons range of the ship.
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>>22574606
>extended
The Destiny trio are "Extended". The three assholes from SEED are called in materials "Biological CPUs" and/or "Boosted Men".
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>>22573567

>>22574596
>The druggies work as a 3 team. If Athrun stops continously moving for a few seconds to land a finishing blow, then the other two druggies will move in during that opening and and attack Athrun. Maybe even sacrificing their teammates to land a killing blow. Athrun had to do hit and run tactics to cover himself.
That explanation assumes the druggies are capable of working as a cohesive team, which is most definitely not the case. Also, the "teamwork" scheme works both ways, since Athrun has a more powerful wingman with Kira in the Freedom.

Other than the silly explanation that "Kira and Athrun fight defensively rather than offensively", they had no excuse to just let three dangerous foes just fly away when they were running out of battery. Even Azrael admits that he has to call off the offensive if those three are out of commission, so all the Daggers had to withdraw.
Ditto when they were just floating in the air with their druggie convulsions. Why didn't they take a shot? Even disabling shots, if they're going to be pussies about it. And no, Forbidden has to actively engage its shield.

>Athrun had to do hit and run tactics to cover himself.
Don't give me that shit. All Athrun had to do was to swing the fucking arm when he was tanking the Calamity's chest cannon with his shield. If he had time to get in close range to do some cosmetic damage on the enemy, what stopped him from doing some extra damage, especially since the beam saber was FUCKING DRAWN ALREADY?
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>>22574673
>All Athrun had to do was to swing the fucking arm when he was tanking the Calamity's chest cannon with his shield.
Beam saber cuts aren't always instant. They take several seconds to a few seconds to cut through phase shift armor.

Like when Kira swung his beam saber into Duel's chest, but the beam saber didn't go all the way through. Or when Aegis sliced Strike's cockpit with a beam saber, but the armor stopped the beam saber, and the beam didnt go all the way through.
Even when they used Meteor's huge Colony busting Mega big beam saber on Calamity, it took a few seconds to cut through Calamity. The phase shift armor actually made Meteor unable to move for a few moments.
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>>22574685
>Like when Kira swung his beam saber into Duel's chest, but the beam saber didn't go all the way through. Or when Aegis sliced Strike's cockpit with a beam saber, but the armor stopped the beam saber, and the beam didnt go all the way through.
That's why I said "do extra damage" instead of "killing" it outright. Slice an arm, or the big shoulder cannons, or the bazooka thing. Or stab the head.

>Beam saber cuts aren't always instant. They take several seconds to a few seconds to cut through phase shift armor.
And even so, Yzak did it to that one other dipshit. Goose, gander, you know the deal.
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>>22574673
Phase shift can (not always) resist beam sabers for a few moments. That's all the time the other druggies need to line up a kill shot. These battles are high speed intense combat. A few seconds of lag can mean life or death.
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>>22574711
>That's all the time the other druggies need to line up a kill shot.
Athrun could've engaged with the beam saber as he was tanking the chest shot with its shield.

>A few seconds of lag can mean life or death.
See >>22571460 and >>22572521
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>>22574722
What are you saying? It makes No sense and only supports what I and other anons are saying.

Infinite Justice's head beam saber still takes a few moments to cut through Shura. It's not instant. Shura literally has time to sit there and comment on how he can't believe he lost before dying.
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>>22574747
The engagement between Shura and Athrun took less time than a round trip of communications between Earth and the moon.

>Infinite Justice's head beam saber still takes a few moments to cut through Shura. It's not instant. Shura literally has time to sit there and comment on how he can't believe he lost before dying.
I think that was Athrun actually piloting.
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>>22574673
>That explanation assumes the druggies are capable of working as a cohesive team, which is most definitely not the case. Also, the "teamwork" scheme works both ways, since Athrun has a more powerful wingman with Kira in the Freedom.
That's why both sides were equal. There are 3 druggies with average teamwork VS 2 pilots with amazing teamwork. It evens out.

>they had no excuse to just let three dangerous foes just fly away when they were running out of battery.
100% agreed. Should have chased them down

>All Athrun had to do was to swing the fucking arm when he was tanking the Calamity's chest cannon with his shield.

Ok let's play it out:

>Athrun swings beam saber down on Calamity.
>Beam saber makes contact and takes several seconds to cut through the cockpit.
>Justice is beam saber locked with Calamity and can't dodge.
>Forbidden flies up from behind Justice while yelling "Idiot Clotho! Thank you for your sacrifice!"
>Forbidden slices Justice in half with giant scythe.
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>>22574707
Stabbing with beam sabers seems to be the fastest way but also the hardest to pull off. Athrun always tries to slice.
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>>22574781
Two things:
1. You still insist that Justice goes straight for the kill in the chest, when it would make more tactical sense in that engagement to attack any of its other systems, such as the head or arms.
2. You keep ignoring that Yzak was able to almost instantly stab Forbidden with its beam saber (which are established in manuals to be less powerful than the Justice's) and kill its worthless bishonen bait pilot. Good riddance.

>Forbidden slices Justice in half with giant scythe.
Why wouldn't Kira be supporting Athrun's flank during his engagement?
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>>22574811
>Why wouldn't Kira be supporting Athrun's flank during his engagement?
Why are you asking this? Did you not watch the episode? Kira wasn't there. He was away fighting in the Colony and rescuing Mwu. Athrun was fighting alone against the druggie pilots 1v3.
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>>22574827
>Kira wasn't there. He was away fighting in the Colony and rescuing Mwu. Athrun was fighting alone against the druggie pilots 1v3.
Nice try, but wrong. Freedom is right behind Justice, doing nothing.
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>>22574685
I think that was just a slowdown for dramatic effect. In Destiny Kira cleaves through other Gundam's with Freedom instantly and even a Murasame cuts through Chaos just as quick.
>>
It really just comes down to Kira and Athrun focusing on either disabling or making the Druggies back off. It's not until nukes start flying that they're out for blood. And yes, their hesitation did technically cause that in the first place (if they'd exterminated Rau or Azrael and his goons when they had the chance and power advantage the final mutual genocide probably wouldn't have been able to happen) but they aren't really aware of that.
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>>22574855
It really just comes down to working a logic backwards to justify why the protagonists couldn't kill a trio of disposable villains until the finale (it's because Fukuda's ideas are fucking awful). 00 got rid of two of its equivalent trio just a few episodes after their introduction.
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>>22574864
00 had another pilot take one of their Gundam's to keep using until near the end of the season and had him and most of the Innovades surviving like cockroaches for all of season 2 until the end so it's not really one to talk. Though at least they kept having their suits destroyed and needing to bail out.
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>>22574811
>Why wouldn't Kira be supporting Athrun's flank during his engagement?
Wasn't this the episode where Kira had a mental breakdown on the battlefield?
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>>22574889
No, that's PHASE-44, when he rushes in with the Freedom and fails to rescue Fllay.
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>>22574811
It's still 3v2. Kira and Athrun still have to be careful.
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>>22574904
3v2 but with an overwhelming power advantage on Kira and Athrun's side.
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>>22574952
What firepower advantage? Both sides have heavily destructive beam weapons and melee weapons.
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>>22574975
Freedom and Justice are nuclear and thus not only stronger than the trio's Gundam's but have nigh unlimited energy to spare as shown when the Druggies burn up all their energy in their second fight and have to run away after only a few minutes, though Kira and Athrun don't chase and finish them off as people have bemoaned.
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>>22574986
Having nuclear power gives them more stamina and endurance. Not necessarily a greater firepower advantage.

I agree that Kira and Athrun should have chased them when thekr batteries died, but the druggie suits come equipped with just as deadly beam weapons and melee weapons.

I would even argue that Forbidden's ability to bend beams is a greater advantage than Freedom's beam weapons. Kira and Athrun now have to be wary of bending beams attacking them from all directions.
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>>22575005
I think the fact that Rising Freedom has weaker versions of everything the original Freedom possesses is an indicator that without Nuclear reactors, that shit would be a power hog.
Heck, even the original Agni from the Strike was such a massive power drain too.
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>>22575012
Kira insisted on having Beam shields on Rising Freedom, not wanting to use ballutes to enter the atmosphere, and for Rising Freedom being able to fly under its own power under Earth gravity. All while under battery power. No wonder he ran out of juice. If you notice, Immortal Justice doesn't use beam shields at all.
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>>22575023
>not wanting to use ballutes to enter the atmosphere
It doesn't need to. That's what the transformation scheme is for.

>and for Rising Freedom being able to fly under its own power under Earth gravity.
Nothing special in CE. Do I have to list all the battery-powered MS in the series that can fly without attachments, starting with the DINN?

Also, how much of Rising's capabilities are Kira's specifically requests and how many are just derived from Murasame and Strike Freedom?
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>>22575029
>Do I have to list all the battery-powered MS in the series that can fly without attachments, starting with the DINN?
Yes. Go ahead. None of those have a combination of everything listed.

Akatsuki has no phase shift armor and no beam shield. Saviour has no beam shield. Dinn's don't even have beam rifles. Every one of these suits have a trade off of some sort. Kira made a Rising Freesom suit with no compromises on weapons or armor. So something has to give. That means battery life sucks.
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>>22575042
>Every one of these suits have a trade off of some sort.
Because battery tech improved in CE 75 to the point where METEOR can work with Impulse.

>None of those have a combination of everything listed.
Ironically, the best match in specs would be Forbidden. Battery-powered with beam weapons, beam shields and autonomous flight, since atmospheric entry is very rarely seen.

>Akatsuki
>no beam shield
Stop posting.
>>
>>22575005
Nuclear power means stronger output which means being overall more powerful. The hits have more force behind them, the shots have more power to them. Best shown with how Freedom easily manhandled Duel in it's first battle getting it to a complete stop with it's barehand just using it's thrust force to hold it's ground because Freedom has 4 times the output of the GAT-X series.
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>>22575051
>Because battery tech improved in CE 75 to the point where METEOR can work with Impulse.
Nope. Movie Meteors don't run with Impulse batteries. The Meteors in the movie were refit with nuclear reactors along with Buster and Duel.

The original Meteors had power problems even with Freedom/Justice sharing their own internal nuclear reactor to power it. It had a tendency to make Freedom/Justice overheat and shutdown if the pilots weren't cateful. One nuclear reactor wasn't really enough.
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>>22575012
>>22575023
>>22575051

The real question is why Rising and Immortal are seemingly running on regular batteries instead of the Deutrion Battery Impulse and the Second Stage had. Deutrion energy and voltage tweaking allowed for them to almost be as powerful as the Freedom and Justice though not quite and they had zero power issues for the most part. Given Impulse was also one of the suits they shelved they only explaination I can think of is if like people have suggested, the switch to Rising and Immortal was done to deliberately limit their own power and they decided even Deutrion batteries were too much for regular use.
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>>22575056
Or you can use weapons with the same output, but just drain your battery faster. Even with next-gen batteries and sacrificing the ability to fly, Calamity Gundam was still an energy draining pig.
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>>22575061
>It had a tendency to make Freedom/Justice overheat and shutdown if the pilots weren't cateful.
I already know that in Astray they had METEORs with built-in nuclear reactors, but just wondering what is the source for this?

>>22575063
Although COMPASS promotes unity between nations, it still doesn't require or force technology sharing. Deuterion beam and battery system seem to still be ZAFT exclusive for now.
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>>22575063
>only explaination I can think of is if like people have suggested, the switch to Rising and Immortal was done to deliberately limit their own power and they decided even Deutrion batteries were too much for regular use.

I agree. It was probably the only way for ZAFT, Orb, the Atlantic Federation would agree to the existence of Compass and giving them special privileges to enter different countries. Compass can have really good suits, but not TOO good. They don't want Compass to be too powerful, and so batteries were a way to limit them.
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>>22575069
Calamity only still had the basic GAT-X battery. It was slightly better at power mangement thanks to having Trans Phase Armor instead of Phase Shift which wasn't a constant power drain but they didn't really work out how to have a beam heavy MS work without nuclear reactors until the next show
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>>22575075
>Although COMPASS promotes unity between nations, it still doesn't require or force technology sharing. Deuterion beam and battery system seem to still be ZAFT exclusive for now.
Didn't the EA learn how that recharging tech works when they captured Gaia, Abyss, and Chaos?
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>>22575063
>The real question is why Rising and Immortal are seemingly running on regular batteries instead of the Deutrion Battery Impulse and the Second Stage had
I wouldn't hold on too much to what's basically a trademark. Thinking the batteries in the movie's mobile suits are the same as the ones on a GINN, or even a ZAKU, is ludicrous.The only benefit of deuterion tech is the beam recharge.
By all accounts, the batteries installed in Rising are advanced and powerful enough that the MS can match the performance of original Freedom, and be even better in some regards, such as including a beam shield.
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>>22575075
>Deuterion beam and battery system seem to still be ZAFT exclusive for now.

Compass had Impulse in their possession, and Terminal acquired Gaia during Destiny so they have access to the tech right there.
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>>22575075
>Deuterion beam and battery system seem to still be ZAFT exclusive for now.
ZAFT built the Rising's weapons. As I said before, I don't think deuterion tech is that important/revolutionary in CE 75.
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>>22575075
Recent Movie Staff interviews where they were answering questions about the movie. That's how we found out Strike Freedom didn't run out power, but instead overheated due to coolant issues. Akatsuki running out of power after a single shot of Zeus Silhouette, and having to leave the battlefield. And that blast wasn't even max power for the Zeus Silhouette. Etc etc.
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>>22575093
Oh, so it's an assumption you're logically extending to other machines. Shame that CE doesn't run on such logic.
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>>22575085
>The only benefit of deuterion tech is the beam recharge.

The energy transfer system is supposed to be more efficient which is why the Second Stage's weapons were near on par with the NJC Gundam's. That's why they made the Hyper Deutrion engine which uses that technology for a better energy flow from the nuclear reactor instead of just running right off the reactor like the Freedom and Justice did in the first place.
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>>22575063
There's no such thing as Deutrion batteries, I think you're mixing up systems - the Second Stage units have top of the line at the time ultra compact batteries, their unique feature is being able to be rapidly recharged on the fly by the Deutrion Beam System

Next step above that was the Hyper Deutrion engines in Destiny, SF etc that are somehow a hybrid of nuclear reactors and a Deutrion recharging system.

Rising and Immortal are back to ultra efficient conventional batteries, meaning they're more modern versions of the SS tech, without the remote recharging ability.
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>>22575097
You are confused. This isn't an assumption. This is stated facts.
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>>22574839
>That blocky misshapen Freedom
I could be a smartass and argue that's actually a dummy balloon, but even I know that's a stretch.
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>>22575103
Okay, then where's the explicit statement that references the Freedom and Justice?
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>>22575079
>Compass can have really good suits, but not TOO good. They don't want Compass to be too powerful, and so batteries were a way to limit them.
That doesn't make sense. First of all, COMPASS is not autonomous, but rather has forces on active commission from its members: Shinn and Lunamaria are still ZAFT soldiers with their ranks, Mwu and Murrue are attached to Orb, etc.
Second, their putative enemy (Blue Cosmos insurgents) have fucking Destroy Gundams at their disposal. Sure, Fukuda turned them into the worst jobber in the franchise, but in-universe it is still the behemoth that trampled over half of Eastern Europe. When the danger is having another Destroy crisis, you better give them top-of-the-line equipment. Fucking hell, the Millennium has a quadruple Lohengrin and remote turrets.
The reason why Rising and Immortal are battery-powered has been argued to death in these threads: the most sensible explanation is costs and ease of maintenance for fast deployments, not political considerations. If you can have a Freedom and Justice that run on batteries just fine for COMPASS's needs, why not go for the most efficient powerplant instead? Spend smart, not recklessly.
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>>22575122
It's worth mention that when Freedom and Destiny are pulled out of mothballs, their nuclear status is not brought up at all, likewise for when Duel and Buster are fielded - there's nothing at all said about it being either ethically or legally questionable to put them into back action. Even Justice being operated in clandestine fashion is never said to be anything like it being something that shouldn't be active, it doesn't come up.
Rising and Immortal for all intents and purposes appear to be absolutely top tier units that could handle everything Compass was intended to deal with, short of a villainous national state rolling out an elite squad of units that happen to be invulnerable to conventional beam weaponry.
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>>22575122
Compromises must be made if you want countries to agree to fund it and allow MS to fly in their space. Plus Compass is a global peace keeping agency. They aren't just a Anti-Logos or Anti-Blue Cosmos agency. Rising Freedom is good enough for 98% of average situations the suit will face when dealing with insurgents. Destroy Gundams appearing seem to be a very rare thing judging by Kira's reaction.
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>>22575137
>It's worth mention that when Freedom and Destiny are pulled out of mothballs, their nuclear status is not brought up at all, likewise for when Duel and Buster are fielded - there's nothing at all said about it being either ethically or legally questionable to put them into back action. Even Justice being operated in clandestine fashion is never said to be anything like it being something that shouldn't be active, it doesn't come up.
>Rising and Immortal for all intents and purposes appear to be absolutely top tier units that could handle everything Compass was intended to deal with, short of a villainous national state rolling out an elite squad of units that happen to be invulnerable to conventional beam weaponry.
Will this kill the months of "the Treaty of Junius is most definitely still valid in CE 75" nonsense?
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>>22575137
Terminal operates Buster, Duel, Infinite Justice, and the Meteors. They are supposed to be a secret organization that doesn't care about rules of war or Treaties.
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>>22575149
That's why everyone calls Lacus a hypocrite. She doesn't dissolve Terminal when Compass is created. Instead, Lacus keeps Terminal alive in secret. And operating in the background. Kind of shows how little faith Lacus has in Compass.
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>>22575149
Terminal is funded and controlled by Lacus and Cagalli. They are to intelligence what COMPASS is to combat power, so secrecy is to be expected in their field of work. At the very least, top officers in either government must know about it.
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>>22575156
>>22575158
Lacus has no power over Terminal, it's actually independent of her.
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>>22575156
>She doesn't dissolve Terminal when Compass is created. Instead, Lacus keeps Terminal alive in secret. And operating in the background. Kind of shows how little faith Lacus has in Compass.
Cagalli. She's who runs Terminal in CE 75. Furthermore, they have different roles. You don't get rid of the CIA just because the Marine Corps is there.
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>>22575158
>>22575165
Cagalli has nothing to do with Terminal. Terminal was created by the Clyne faction. Lacus is a founding member and leader. Terminal isn't just an information network. They have their own ships, MS, and can even build new advanced MS. They built Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice.
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>>22575144
If Compass operated a single nuclear suit, then you would have a point. They don't. Every single one is battery powered.
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>>22575175
And the CIA occasionally operates its own paramilitary operations and small fighting units of their own, because the CIA doesn't and would rather not ask the army or marines to lend a unit of soldiers every time they're up to something that might require some kind of armed protection or involve a firefight, so what's the problem here?
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>>22575175
>Terminal isn't just an information network. They have their own ships, MS, and can even build new advanced MS. They built Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice.
And the CIA has a whole fleet of unmarked aircraft and UCAVs, what's your point?
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>>22575187
The CIA is official and acknowledge. Terminal is not. It's a shadow organization.
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>>22575175
Wasn't Cagalli funding them at some point, at least according to some supplementary material?
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>>22575193
>The CIA is official and acknowledge. Terminal is not.
Yes, it is. Both Orb and ZAFT receive intelligence from it and provide resources for its wetwork. Athrun and Meyrin are officially seconded from Orb to work on Terminal, and its Factory is where PLANT's chairman ends up.

>It's a shadow organization.
You know what "black operations" mean, right?
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>>22575197
>Both Orb and ZAFT receive intelligence from it and provide resources for its wetwork.
Behind the scenes they do. Not officially. That's the point. They are a shadow org.

>from Orb to work on Terminal, and its Factory is where PLANT's chairman ends up.
Because Orb has a somewhat friendly relationship with Terminal ever since the 2nd invasion of Orb when Yuna was removed from power (in a legally questionable way that I don't want to get into).
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>>22575209
>Behind the scenes they do. Not officially. That's the point.
ZAFT's intelligence works with them. Orb's Chief Representative directly sends personnel on commission. How much more "official" can it get? Just repeating "shadow" over and over doesn't make your argument.

>in a legally questionable way that I don't want to get into
Oh, please do so, since that's honestly the most interesting thing you've said all night. Are you honestly going to defend Yuna Roma Seiran, out of all fucking people?
>>
Terminal is to this point unfailingly benevolent, which is why powers like Orb and ZAFT aren't hostile towards it, will listen to it, or even go as far as calling on it for help

But that doesn't make it official, it's still an off the books, clandestine operation accountable to nobody and it's not directly funded or supplied by any power.

It's headquarters is a ship it stole!
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>>22575223
>But that doesn't make it official, it's still an off the books, clandestine operation accountable to nobody and it's not directly funded or supplied by any power.
Wrong on every account. Again, it works directly with the top leadership of ZAFT and Orb during the movie, who supply it with personnel in a mostly official capacity. While it's independent, it is still tethered to its sponsors. The MG manuals go into a bit of detail, which may have been retconned by now:

Strike Freedom:
>In C.E. 73, a second all-out war broke out between the Earth Alliance and PLANT. In order to end the war and put an end to the conflict between Naturals and Coordinators, people from both sides secretly gathered and organized a secret organization called "Terminal". Its parent organization is said to be a resistance organization established in PLANT at the end of the previous war, centered on Siegel Clyne. Terminal has continued its activities after the end of the previous war, led by Lacus Clyne, the orphaned daughter of Siegel, who was assassinated.

Infinite Justice
>After the devastation of the previous war, PLANT, with Gilbert Durandal as its new leader, underwent a remarkable recovery thanks to his powerful leadership. However, his leadership also aroused the wariness of those who were sensitive to power run amok. Many of them were former like-minded people who, after Siegel's assassination, looked to his daughter, Lacus Clyne, as their leader. They secretly left PLANT, built a base in the debris belt to escape ZAFT's surveillance, and continued their activities. Similarly, in the Earth Alliance, those who were wary of the actions of the military and political leaders had begun to take action.
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>>22575264
From a different source:
>Terminal was formed out of the fear that the war for PLANT's independence had nearly eradicated life on Earth, and senior civil society members of each country realized the need for an organization to mediate or intervene in such a situation.
>In C.E. 73, the organization expanded rapidly, and not only influential members of the anti-war factions from both the Earth Alliance and PLANT (mainly from the former Clyne faction) are participating, but also private organizations such as the Junk Guild and DSSD, and even moderate members of very powerful families are members. Because of the diversity of its participants, there are agents in every country, and they are said to have intelligence-collectioj capabilities comparable to those of the intelligence agencies of national governments.
>In general, it can be said that the organization is a collection or cooperation of people from various walks of life under the banner of preventing a war of extinction. However, its organizational structure is similar to that of Blue Cosmos, where people from different countries are united by anti-Cordinators and anti-PLANT ideology.
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>>22575223
>It's headquarters is a ship it stole!
Wrong again. Its headquarters are the asteroid Factory.

>一時期は行方不明として扱われていたが、現 在はザフトに復帰。
"For a time it was treated as missing, but now it has returned to ZAFT."
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>>22575271
This description is unambiguously incorrect, Eternal hasn't been returned to ZAFT

Source: I've seen the movie
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>>22575122
>Fucking hell, the Millennium has a quadruple Lohengrin and remote turrets.

Millenium also was a glorified Ferry for the MS squad for most of the film not getting involved in any of the fights till the final one because it was their only ship left. Archangel was the ship they actually sent into the battlefields until it got blown up. Which would go with the idea that they're intentionally limiting their own power for whatever reason.
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>>22575273
>This description is unambiguously incorrect, Eternal hasn't been returned to ZAFT
>Source: I've seen the movie
So the official website is wrong, then?
https://www.gundam-seed.net/freedom/mecha/mecha32.php
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>>22575102
Back in the day "Deutrion energy" was supposedly a more effective form of energy and batteries that made the Impulse and it's other units more powerful and having weapons similar to the Freedom and Justice despite not being nuclear. But I suppose like everything else that's been retconned over the last 20 years.
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>>22575276
Yes. Like I can't overstate that the minute the ship appears on screen you get a gigantic title card saying it's a Terminal ship not ZAFT.
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>>22575276
>>22575280

And this is why any CE debates and attempts to back up with information will never work. Because they can't keep this shit straight even with themselves.
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>>22575275
>Archangel was the ship they actually sent into the battlefields until it got blown up.
Yeah, as a rear-line mop-up crew. The reason why it had to fight during the Foundation double-cross is because they saw them stealing the nukes from Eurasia by accident. COMPASS doesn't send its ships for direct combat, just mobile suits. Would you want to put your carrier at risk, or just the MS?
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>>22575275
Millennium doesn't have laminated armor, does it? Archangel should be more durable?
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>>22575285
>Archangel should be more durable?
Millennium took twelve positron blasts to the face. I don't see Archangel or Minerva doing that any time soon.
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>>22575284
Millenium was left in the city while AA actually went to the battle didn't it? That's why it was in the position to see anything in the first place.
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>>22575287
But it's so ugly. Fuck off Fukuda with your Mighty Jack fetish Archangel was perfect
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>>22575285
Millennium has a new ablative armor system it can deploy on demand that can tank positron cannons, but it's not as versatile as Archangel's natural armor
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>>22575281
Especially when the director doesn't know his own material. Or the fact that he literally resurrects Mwu and Andy from the dead because they wanted Mwu for the sequel and Fukada thought Andy's voice actor was cool and that the Three Ships Alliance needed more adults in it.

Or the shitshow with Windam VPS armor. Or Destroy having beam-bending barrier. Or the many, many threads over the years about SF catching Destiny's sword, the explosion during Angel Down, or Destiny's battery drain.
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>>22575219
A friendly vigilante intelligence organization is still a vigilante organization. Just stop anon. You aren't convincing anyone that Terminal follows laws and is above board.
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>>22575287
When I saw the movie, I honestly thought Millennium had some sort of upgraded positron deflection barrier like EA ships and mobile armors had during Seed Destiny. Are you sure it's armor?
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>>22575301
It deploys it similar to the ablative gel Archangel uses for atmospheric reentry
>>
I hated Gundam SEED. Should I even bother watching Destiny?
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>>22575307
Yes you should definitely watch more of a thing you didn't like, that would be a very productive use of your time.
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>>22575305
Right but isn't it an uograded version of the tech? Like so they don't have to carry a giant deflection shield attennna in front of their ship like the EA does. Mixed whatever anti-positron particles are used in the shield with the gel. Like what they did to Zeus Silhouette tech.
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>>22575280
Maybe it only is going back to Zaft in the movie?
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>>22575307
Many people who thinks Seed is so so actually liking Destiny it heavily biased dislike only come from charafags not really actual story or plot
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>>22574707
Stabbing doesn't always work. Freedom stabbed Providence directly on the cockpit, but the beam still missed the pilot. Either it was deflected or the armor was too good.
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>>22575307
Short answer: No.
Long answer: It depends on what you didn't like about Seed. Destiny doubles down on Seed's more questionable aspects and so you would probably dislike it even more, but if your issue was specifically with the cast in Seed then maybe you'll appreciate the different perspective of the new cast in Destiny, for the first 12 episodes anyway.
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>>22575355
Interesting, I appreciate the feedback anon. What I hated most about SEED was the cast and their constant whining and petty high school drama.
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>>22575357
Well don't expect anything different in Destiny.
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>>22575351
It still killed Rau even if it took a few more seconds.
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>>22575377
It critically injured him, but didn't Rau get finished off by the GENESIS misfire?
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>>22575297
There's nothing wrong with vigilante's. I don't know why everyone has this thing about it.
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>>22575377
Aren't you proving anon's point that a few extra seconds of waiting for the beam saber melt through the armor means they are open to attack?
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>>22575378
Given his helmet shattered open from the heat he was dead before Genesis even fired.
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>>22575219
>Oh, please do so, since that's honestly the most interesting thing you've said all night. Are you honestly going to defend Yuna Roma Seiran, out of all fucking people?

Different anon here but I want a Crack at this. I'm not defending Yuna's character. He's clearly a buffoon. But the way he was removed from duty was absolutely retarded and violation.

Let me get this straight. A random female voice from an unknown mobile suit no one has seen before, claiming to be your wife, orders your subordinates to beat the shit out of you. Without visual confirmation of the pilot or any sort of chain of command verification, your officers actually do it and beat the shit out of you and put you in handcuffs. Do I really need to list how many things are wrong here? A total breakdown of chain of command.

The only reason it's excused is because no one likes Yuna so it's handwaved away. But imagine if Yuna was actually a competently trained officer, and not a comedic relief character like the show gives us. The whole thing would be totally out of line for Yuna's officers to do such a thing. Not to mention early Orb episodes had Orb officers had a huge focus on loyalty and obeying orders from superior officers they didn't like.

Not to mention Cagalli was removed from power prior to her abduction. She was no longer in command of Orb. She tried this same shit in her Strike Rouge and told the army to stand down. The officers refused and said Cagalli was no longer in command of Orb forces and to basically gtfo not happening. And that some random pilot's voice coming from Strike Rouge isn't going to cut it. Cagalli was listed as missing in action and abducted. No one knew her status or if she's been harmed, drugged, tortured, etc. You don't take orders from hostages. Then Cagalli started crying on the radio and Kira went on a rampage shooting everyone on every side of The battle.
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>>22575399
I was going to play devil's advocate and argue that maybe the appearance of the Akatsuki was secretly shared between some of the Orb officers, so they knew when they could tell Yuna to get fucked, but then that's just a coup d'etat.
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>>22575399
Didn't some Orb Commander give a speech to Cagalli that was something like, "Look. We may not always LIKE who is our Commander. But Yuna is in command. You are not Cagalli. Yuna is the legitimate Commander of Orb and we are Loyal Orb soldiers. I like you Cagalli, but you have no authority anymore. Get off this battlefield and go live your life. We have our orders. Step aside."
I vaguely recall something like that.
>>
So the Full Mechanics Calamity Gundam specs say the shield cannons are beam weapons, yet the boxart shows the beams as yellow. Yellow beams in SEED are usually physical rounds. Video games show the beams as green, or as actual physical rounds.

Which is it really?
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>>22575553
Not all beams are green. Some are different colors.
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>>22575344
NO! Compass trusts the Joule Team for them to use the Eternal and its METEORs, and while the Gundams are basically theirs from the beginning, they were bought by Terminal between SEED and Freedom for a full-scale overhaul that would be compatible with METEOR units and also let them stay on the battlefield for longer. As for a good chunk of ZAFT, Compass can't trust them after Lacus's stint as a short-time Chairwoman led to nothing about peace.
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>>22574864
>why the protagonists couldn't kill a trio of disposable villains until the final
>Yo Setsuna, Ali Al-Space bin Laden here, the one who you fully know done a ton of horrible shit.
>Could you spare me every time? Like, if you were to get Trans-AM and fully disarm my machine, you'd just let me fly away?
>Or if you were in the 00 Rasier a split second away from my cockpit,. spare me too?
>Thanks bro. Have fun killing all those soldiers just doing their job! As thanks, I'll be sure to mail you Lockon's head!
>>
>Hey Setsuna, it's nice you unlocked Trans-am but could you let an old friend get away?
>Hey Neil, mind not using Trans-am during out fight? And not flying upwards when Daryl divebombs you?
>Hey Setsuna and Tierria, I got a new machine with 3 GN Drive Tau so and 1's output is nowhere a normal GN Drive, let alone a Twin Drive system. Even 3 ought to be below the 00's output without the Rasier to stabilize. Mind allowing me to outspeed you and run away scot free?
>Hey Setsuna, I see you're becoming an Innovator. Let me go free again?
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>>22575611
>Lacus's stint as a short-time Chairwoman
Fukuda already said she was not chairwoman I don't get why some people don't believe him, her being chairwoman was also never being brought in any media after that, supported Fukuda words.
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>>22575417

You're correct on that. It's what got through to Cagalli's thick skull not to be naive about what she can do. Having an Astray pilot tell her to escape as his dying breath when Shinn in the Impulse tried to kill her during his rampage afterward (the Astray pilot took the beam shot meant for the Strike Rouge) was the final nail for that coffin. No small wonder why after she was reinstalled as Chief Representative, Cagalli chose to remain in Orb, leaving Amagi to command the Orb space detachment of the Three Ships Alliance and giving the Murasame to Mu.
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>>22574864
>>22575662
There's a difference.

The Druggies were actually excellent pilots enhanced even further by drugs. No one could stand up to them except Kira and Athrun.

The Trinity trio from Gundam 00 were below average (shitty) pilots that were hard carried by their machines. Their purpose was to be a disposable threat. Once the militaries had GN-X units, the Trinities were destroyed easily. They were not skilled at all.

No comment on Ali. I honestly thought he died at the end of Season 1. And Season 2 of Gundam 00 feels like a different show with all the changes they did like Mr. BUSHIDO etc etc.
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>>22575674
>>22575399
>>22575408

As I saw it while going through my SEED Destiny rewatch before I see SEED Freedom this coming Saturday, Todaka and his subordinates weren't so keen on obeying Yuna's orders (with Todaka hoping Kira and the Freedom alleviate what damage was wrought) and when Shinn began his rampage, Todaka simply ordered a charge against the Minerva and when that was going south, he ordered his subordinates to flee with Yuna while allowing Amagi and those willing to defect to the Archangel.

Cagalli showing up with the Takemikazuchi survivors to help fend off ZAFT's attack, and Yuna's boneheaded decision to shelter Djibril despite that painting a tager on Orb due to the anti-LOGOS witchhunt Durandal started, made it easier for Yuna to be ousted.
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>>22575680
Why didn't the EA come to Orb's defense when ZAFT invaded? Wasn't Orb allied with EA?
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>>22575576
In the Cosmic Era most are green or blueish with red. Rarely are they any different color within Seed. I was more curious if the beams fired from the to Calamity's shield being yellow is an animation error.
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>>22575682

>Why didn't the EA come to Orb's defense when ZAFT invaded?

That too could also help justify why it was easy for the Orb military to oust Yuna, since it was his idea to join the Earth Alliance.
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>>22575703
Buster Gundam fires yellow beams.
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>>22575708
Yeah but that didn't happen.

But When ZAFT gave Orb their ultimatum, the EA SHOULD have sent a fleet to back up Orb. That's the whole point of joining the EA. To have mutual defense. The 2nd invasion of Orb should have been far more intense.
>>
>>22575716

Sorry, forgot to elaborate on what I said earlier. If the EA didn't send troops to help Orb, that should have been good enough for the Ord leadership to turn on Yuna after Cagalli appeared with the Takemikazuchi survivors.

Why join a faction that won't help you in the end and were exposed as paens for LOGOS? Yuna did that and it got a good chunk of Orb's troops slaughtered again.
>>
>>22575719

Sorry, meant "that should have been good enough for the Orb leadership to turn on Yuna"
>>
>>22575682
Wasn't EA basically in turmoil and was splintering and probably depleted after the assault on Heaven's Base? Or would you expect Djibril at least send Orb a small-ish token force?
>>
In the novel some people said Cagalli do more cool shit, but I don't find it in the novel, she was losing arguments with other leaders, Cagalli might became great leader for Orb people but for the CE world I think she is still powerless, even at the end of her pray in the movie father protect the nation but at the end she was saying Kira...so despite the novel said Kira and Lacus retired but Fukuda is right about them not actually retiring because CE world still need them, I still can't think of what could Cagalli and Athrun do without Kira and Lacus?
>>
>>22575751
I guess I would have expected part of the EA to send something...at least a small force to help defend Orb. I would imagine that keeping Orb on the EA's good side would be especially important since part of the EA splintered off. The EA doesn't want to lose anymore partner nations.
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>>22575399
Lots of errors there. The freaking show is on YouTube, free of charge.

>claiming to be your wife
They weren't married. Kira abducted Cagalli during the ceremony.

>A total breakdown of chain of command.
A "breakdown" Yuna himself authorized when he acknowledged her officially: https://youtu.be/_l7nO_XESOU?t=1125. The exact opposite of the incident in the Mediterranean, when Yuna was forced to call "fake".

>Not to mention Cagalli was removed from power prior to her abduction. She was no longer in command of Orb.
Yuna proclaimed himself "Commander in Chief" with Cagalli absent.

>She tried this same shit in her Strike Rouge and told the army to stand down. The officers refused and said Cagalli was no longer in command of Orb forces and to basically gtfo not happening. And that some random pilot's voice coming from Strike Rouge isn't going to cut it
The Orb officers didn't go along with Cagalli's claim because Yuna said she was a fake (forced by Neo, who said the EA would flatten Orb), despite the officers' objections: https://youtu.be/PWNPgyrHHu0?t=417
His orders as CiC overrule everything until the Akatsuki's appearance, where he acknowledged her as superior and played himself in the process. Also, as >>22575680, the Seirans lost their legitimacy as leaders when they decided to hide Djibril and have ZAFT attack the country as a consequence.
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>>22575818
>>22575751
>>22575682
>Why didn't the EA come to Orb's defense when ZAFT invaded? Wasn't Orb allied with EA?
>I would imagine that keeping Orb on the EA's good side would be especially important since part of the EA splintered off. The EA doesn't want to lose anymore partner nations.
Several answers to that question:
First and foremost, the Earth Alliance had nothing to send to Orb. Operation Ragnarok and the global hunt against Logos decimated them. Forces like the Republic of East Asia were actively aiding ZAFT. The footage that mentions a "force off Onogoro deployed from Carpentaria" shows EA vessels mixed with ZAFT submarines, as is the beginning of Operation Fury: https://youtu.be/_l7nO_XESOU?t=377
Second, Djibril escaped from Heaven's Base in secret. Even if the EA had something to send to Orb's aid (and it probably didn't, as explained above), it would take a while to come to their help. It is also likely that the surviving EA governments would want to wash their hands off Logos.
Third, the Earth Alliance never had any intention to do anything to help Orb. During the battle in the Mediterranean, Neo was emphatic that Orb will suffer the consequences of not following their orders.

The Seirans are so pathetic and self-serving that they could've saved themselves a lot of trouble if they just had handed over Djibril to ZAFT.
>>
>>22575399
>But imagine if Yuna was actually a competently trained officer, and not a comedic relief character like the show gives us. The whole thing would be totally out of line for Yuna's officers to do such a thing.

If he was he wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with. And he makes the mistake of officially confirming 100 percent without a doubt that it's Cagalli based on voice alone which gave her command. While I feel like nobody would be stupid enough to do this in real life, if they DID (pass over the chain of command over radio with no positive ID) it would still count in that moment, although heads would probably roll later.
>>
we were once so close together...
but now the sky has turned a different color...
>>
>>22575953
>Third, the Earth Alliance never had any intention to do anything to help Orb. During the battle in the Mediterranean, Neo was emphatic that Orb will suffer the consequences of not following their orders.

That too, Djbril was basically just using them because the Seiran's were in with him. Though at least he and Neo considered their duty fulfilled and let the survivors go back home after Shinn fucked up the fleet instead of insisting the survivors fight to the death or attack Orb for failing them.
>>
>>22576091
I don't think you and other anon are on the same page. He's arguing realism. You are arguing the vague rules within the showm

If we are being realistic, then You can't transfer military chain of command over radio. You cant transfer command to some unknown voice even if you think it's someone you know. You can't transfer command to a hostage. There are procedures in place that must be followed. This whole thing just wouldn't work.

Within the rules of the show, we are not sure how Orb military chain of command works. However I will say It seems very silly that all it takes is a verbal confirmation to an unknown mobile suit. Bare minimum I would have expected Cagalli to come into The bunker in-person before trying to take command away from Yuna. She was abducted and been missing for many weeks too. So I'm not sure how this plays out.

Anyway it ultimately depends on what you and other anon are using as a basis for discussion. Realism VS anime rules.
>>
>>22576100
>let the survivors go back home after Shinn fucked up the fleet instead of insisting the survivors fight to the death or attack Orb for failing them.
How did any Orb survivors escape? Shinn was rage mode sinking every single Orb ship. He was jumping onto every single ship and no one was escaping Shinn's wrath. No ship had time to run away let alone spend hours picking up any survivors floating on the ocean. How are there any survivors?
>>
>>22576130
>She was abducted and been missing for many weeks too.
Is there a timeline of Destiny events?
>>
>>22576135

Maybe he spent too much time carving up the Takemikazuchi the other ships were able to escape. Explains how Yuna was back in Orb commenting on the Logos reveal with his father.
>>
>>22576135
I mean there were at least enough Murasames and ORB soldiers led by Amagi (Takemikazuchi's XO) escaped to the Archangel while Yuna and whoever else made it back to ORB.

>>22576143
Only the Armory One Attack and Break the World had specific dates (October 2nd and 3rd), while EA's attempt to nuke PLANT (November) along with the assassination attempt of Lacus plus Cagalli getting kidnapped (December) didn't have specific dates. Everything else were pretty much "LOL they happened in CE74, don't bother us about it".
>>
>>22576188

And three of those guys took down Sting and the Chaos.
>>
>>22575669
Did Morosawa hate Destiny enough for Fukuda to revise the last three minutes of Final Plus? Some people in Sunrise kept saying Lacus became Chairwoman by the time she got home, but that was retconned into her refusing to join the Supreme Council and start Compass as soon as the Second Alliance-PLANT War ended. I really hope SRW DD shows how the new organization is formed...
>>
https://zeonic-republic.net/translation/seedfreedom_ch05.pdf
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>>22575674
>Having an Astray pilot tell her to escape as his dying breath when Shinn in the Impulse tried to kill her during his rampage afterward (the Astray pilot took the beam shot meant for the Strike Rouge) was the final nail for that coffin.

Random thought, but that's actually a scene that's always stuck with me. Absolutely doesn't apply to the "Cagalli is crying meme" the show overall gets.
>>
>>22575711
If anything that's an animation error, I'm pretty sure there's other scenes where it fires yellow and it knocks Forbidden on it's ass from the projectile impacts
>>
>>22575669
So, it's like when everyone thought Nunnally became Empress at the end of Geass?
>>
I think Cagalli did more things in Destiny than in the movie but in the movie her relationship with Athrun seems fine but in Destiny is not, it makes me think Destiny is not that bad some people maybe only hate it for ruining their ship.
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>>22576620
People hate Destiny for more than just seemingly breaking up Athrun and Cagalli.
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>>22576143
>>22576188
>Is there a timeline of Destiny events?
>>
You know, I find it ironic that one of the lessons Shinn was supposed to learn at the end of Destiny was to not look at everything from a black and white perspective. When the Cosmic Era has to be one of the most black and white Gundam universes.
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>>22576620
There is more to it, in Destiny she's completely over her head as a leader, spends a lot of time basically an emotional wreck, her and Athrun are broken up and the parts that are supposed to be positive for her just kinda stink in execution, her taking back control of Orb is completely unearned, and then there's the whole handing the legacy of her father to an unrepentant war criminal etc

In Freedom she's a more minor character, but she's shown as completely competent and mature as a leader, and what counts as her on-field action is kind of a hell yeah moment. And while not explicit it does show her and Athrun aren't just completely over. So it really does portray her better.
>>
>>22576370
>Boaz Fortress, a former PLANT military base. Now officially decommissioned, it secretly housed a Clyne Faction outpost. Not that they had anticipated a situation like this. They, too, had hoped the things they had hidden there would gather dust, unused and forgotten, but...
>Sitting in the cockpit running system checks, Yzak muttered, "I can't believe they kept these old models around, even if retrofitted with nuclear power."
>"I like 'em," Dearka replied with a hint of nostalgia. "The Zaku's control system is easy to use."
>The machines they had boarded were old models, but their power systems and controls had been upgraded. They were units that Yuri Amalfi, Ezalia, and others had remodeled for testing using decommissioned machines.
Does this match with the movie's events? Because this says that Ezalia and Yuri (still ZAFT-affiliated personnel) were the ones who fitted Duel and Buster with nuclear powerplants, not Terminal.
>>
>>22576654
But what about the new Duel and Buster being said as gift from Lacus
>>
>>22576668
..? How should I know when I'm already asking?
>>
>>22576668
Where are you getting that? And why do you write like bikinischizo?
>>
>>22576649
He was brainwashed, helped them save the world, and Murrue still has the hots for him. So, that makes it okay.
>>
>>22576649
>and then there's the whole handing the legacy of her father to an unrepentant war criminal etc
That's Athrun. Orb worships the ground on which "Uzumi-sama" walked over.
>>
>>22576672
It was in the movie
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>>22576677
That isn't in the movie. All that's in the movie is the Terminal supplying Yzak's team with Duel, Buster and the Meteors.
>>
>>22576649
What I see in Destiny that mostly happened because she lacks power while everything seems pretty much in store for her in Freedom, Orb deus ex machina in 2nd half of the movie actually bother me
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>>22576654
There is no issue here. There are people that are spies or scientists in ZAFT (but m that work for Terminal). They switched sides, but kept their old jobs to keep leaking information and resources to Terminal. They are double agents. That's how Terminal works and gets their intelligence.
>>
>>22576681
>>22576681
>All that's in the movie is the Terminal supplying Yzak's team with Duel, Buster and the Meteors.
I think it was someone from Terminal that said Lacus has gift for them, and Yzak taking Eternal also arranged by Waldfield, I don't remember it is from the movie, or the books and side materials or Fukuda words?
>>
>>22575399
>Huge focus on loyalty and obeying orders from superior officers they didn't like.
it's actually the opposite, the soldiers are very loyal to original Orb's ideals and royalty which are Cagalli and her late father. Which is why at least half the army question themselves when fighting against Cagalli's order.
In fact they are way more prone to punch their superior in the face when given weird orders than ZAFT or EA soldiers (you literally never see anyone from these faction question their orders outside of Archangel's crew).
This was definitely acknowledged and meme'd to a point in SEED Freedom when the Orb soldiers are told to shoot Millenium the command literally said out loud "Don't worry I've learned how to miss every shot after serving Todaka (the commander that got sliced by Shinn)"
>>
>>22576723
What part of "Terminal works officially with both ZAFT and Orb's governments" don't you get? Is this your new hobbyhorse after the 'no-nuke treaty' thing was debunked? Just look at this shit right here:
>L1 Terminal Space Satellite Base "Factory"
The Kusanagi, flagship of Orb's space forces, is docked there. You need any more convincing that Terminal operates officially?
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>>22576130
I think the key factor at work here is that Orb is getting bombed left and right by ZAFT, and suddenly a mysterious MS escorted by a bunch of Murasames is helping turn the tables.
Orb's officers were probably looking for any excuse to coup Yuna's ass.
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>>22576732
>Terminal works officially with both ZAFT and Orb's governments

"Work with" is the wrong term. Terminal has "provided assistance" to most major factions now that every faction is relatively at peace. What's your point? They are still a secret organization that operate independently. Terminal doesn't take orders from any faction.

Did you forget Terminal were hunted and murdered by ZAFT during Seed Destiny? Then ZAFT got their ass beat by Terminal, and their new Terminal Gundams and suits. Even if ZAFT wanted to hunt Terminal down again, the outcome would still be the same. The current ZAFT leadership think it's better to be on Terminal's good side than to oppose them.
>>
>>22576654
>Boaz
I'm surprised that they bothered to de-contaminate and rebuild it since it was basically nuked into oblivion back in SEED.

>>22576743
The other aspect that didn't help Yuna was pretending that Djibril wasn't hiding in ORB despite everyone knows he was lying and not preparing for defense.
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>>22576732
Lmao. You get triggered by the most stupidly specific things. When will you learn? You never been right in this entire thread. Not once. Do you live in an alternate reality? Aren't you embarrassed that you tried to claim Eternal was returned to ZAFT? You even quoted a website to try back you up. Lol. Stop outing yourself. Thanks for telling everyone you haven't even seen the movie. Sit down and be humble. Wait for the BD to come out.
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>>22576771
>Aren't you embarrassed that you tried to claim Eternal was returned to ZAFT? You even quoted a website to try back you up.

In fairness, that's the official site. It's just got wrong info on it.
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>>22576732
Oh no it's you again. You can't just take an L and move on can you?
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>>22576771
>Aren't you embarrassed that you tried to claim Eternal was returned to ZAFT? You even quoted a website to try back you up.
>a website
THE OFFICIAL MOVIE WEBSITE, YOU SMARMY DIPSHIT. If you can't rely on what's posted there, what else is there? Taking random people on 4chan at their word because they "totes" seen the movie? You think I'm that dumb?

>>22576774
And stop your samefaggotry.
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>>22576774
>take an L
back to fucking twitter with you. we dont talk like that over here
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>>22576776
...do you think people are pretending to have seen it?
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>>22576773
A smart anon wouldn't open their mouth to argue about the movie until they've seen the movie.
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>>22576779
>...do you think people are pretending to have seen it?
Yes, I do. Or they just post bullshit for shits and giggles. We had a lot of outright falsehoods in the early days, such as "the Black Knights were able to brainwash all of PLANT with their powers, Cross Ange-style, to support them".
If something with Sunrise's logo on it says something, and "Anonymous" contradicts it, I'd rather believe the former.
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>>22576776
I was never part of the original argument about Eternal. Your picture makes no sense. As it says nothing about the ship belonging to ZAFT. You got your translation wrong.
>>
>>22576783
Lacus Clyne is a closet lesbian.
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>>22576783
The only one pushing fake news was you. You tried to tell everyone you found exclusive info and posted some random Chinese leak pics with no context. Then you claimed Strike Freedom was left floating in space after the war, and needed a Deuterion beam to recharge. Complete Hogwash.
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>>22576776
>If you can't rely on what's posted there, what else is there?
How about actually seeing the movie? Lmao.
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>>22576732
Sigh. It's the Seed Shitter again. Let's looks at your TERRIBLE track record over time:

>Seed Energy Beams do not clash. They pass through eachother.
Wrong

>Shields can't use phase shift.
Wrong

>Seed Beam sabers do not clash.
Wrong

>Striker Packs do not use phase shift.
Wrong

>Anti-ship swords do not use Phase shift.
Wrong

>Phase shift does not increase weapon damage or cutting power.
Wrong

>Phase Shift armor cannot be defeated by physical weapons.
Wrong

>Beam Boomerangs do not use Phase shift.
Wrong

>Impulse Gundam's backpacks do not use Phase shift.
Wrong

>Destiny Gundam can't fire its large beam cannon without "holding it" with its hands.
Wrong

>Destiny Gundam's backpack weapon "clamp" holder cannot move or rotate.
Wrong

>Destiny Gundam's backpack weapon "clamp" cannot transfer power to the beam cannon. Destiny Gundam must transfer power via handplugs ONLY.
Wrong

>Infinite Justice has an inferior beam shield because the beam "emitter" does not protect itself from damage
Wrong

>Impulse Gundam's shield is just a normal anti-beam coated shield.
Wrong

>Blitz Gundam Needle Darts do not use Phase shift.
Wrong

>Freedom Gundam chest ports are guns that the animation team forgot about.
Wrong. They are extra cameras to help with multi-targeting.

>Strike Freedom was left abandoned in space after the events of Seed Destiny
Wrong

>Strike Freedom ran out of nuclear power during the movie and that's why it lost phase shift
Wrong. The coolant and suit overheated.

>Eternal was returned to ZAFT after Seed Destiny
Wrong

<YOU ARE HERE>
>>
>>22576783
>Yes, I do.

lol. lmao, even.

The funny part is with this conversation is a couple of times throughout the movie I tried to snap a picture of cool things, I completely whiffed on the Eternal title card and didn't get my phone out in time. :(
>>
>>22576800
You should probably add that he tried to claim Proud Defender was meant for Rising Freedom (because of some novel nonsense). That was incorrect. Proud Defender was designed from the ground up to work with Strike Freedom. Kira helped design and build the Proud Defender pack. Kira helped supervise the redesign of Strike Freedom too.
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>>22576800
Has it ever occurred to you that all of these might be different people? Or are you the kind of schizo that is convinced that every fault and every argument he has had must come from a single individual? The fact that you keep a list (WHICH YOU HAVE REPOSTED NUMEROUS TIMES ALREADY LIKE A FUCKING LUNATIC) is sufficient proof of your obsession.

Anyhow, only one of those is mine:
>Impulse Gundam's shield is just a normal anti-beam coated shield.
The thing in the center of Impulse's shield resembles a beam shield emitter, but no sourcebook or the like has ever claimed Impulse's shield is anything but a standard slab of metal. The simplest explanation is that Okawara is a lazy artist that repeats design elements constantly, and going by animation is not proof of anything, since that would mean that Destroy has Geschmeidig Panzer because of a single sequence. Not to mention the whole debate as to what beam colors mean.

>Phase shift does not increase weapon damage or cutting power.
>Freedom Gundam chest ports are guns that the animation team forgot about.
>Wrong. They are extra cameras to help with multi-targeting.
Source on these two. Just calling "wrong" doesn't make you right. That's what the orange turd does.
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>>22576783
>Yes, I do. Or they just post bullshit for shits and giggles.
Do you have mental illness? The movie has already been released in Western countries.
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>>22576811
>The movie has already been released in Western countries
Some western countries: the UK and Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. There were two special screenings in the US, but the wide release is next month.
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>>22576805
Proud Defender being exclusively for SF isn't actually said in the movie. No talk of Kira redesigning SF either.
PD is shown as being in development on board the Millennium as of the early parts of the movie, and SF is not a Compass unit.
>>
>>22576813
>and SF is not a Compass unit.
Who is it, then? Terminal's? Orb's? ZAFT's?
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>>22576814
SF and Destiny are in storage at Orb, Erica Simmons mentions they've been using them to work on improvements with mobile suit power system tech if I remember right.

Simmons also cautions that the Spec II upgrades are solely quality-of-life improvements, that SF and Destiny's capabilities are still their original specs - SF hasn't been redesigned to operate differently.
>>
>>22576810
>but no sourcebook or the like has ever claimed Impulse's shield is anything but a standard slab of metal.
Are you ESL? This is an invalid statement. You can't logically claim all knowledge. You can only logically claim knowledge you have experienced. The correct usage is to say,

"No sourcebook *I've read* has ever claimed Impulse's shield is anything but a standard slab of metal."

I swear you Americans keep getting worse every year. Soon you are going to show up here and not be able to tell time, or be able to read an analog clock. It would not surprise me at all. And no, I don't care one bit about Impulse's shield.
>>
>>22576810
>t-t-that W-W-wasn't me!1!!
Doesn't matter. If you act like a Seed Shitter, then you will treated like the Seed Shitter. Simple as.
>>
>>22576813
To be fair, nothing you said contradicts Proud Defender being made for Strike Freedom.
>>
>>22576837
Nothing explicitly says such, but logically why would Compass be building a support pack exclusively for use with a mobile suit not in their possession and not part of their organization?

I wonder if "PD was made for Strike Freedom" is an incorrect assumption built off "PD was made for Freedom", which Rising also is.
>>
>>22576853
Listen anon. Put aside all these titles and organization names. It's only making you more confused. Compass and Orb might be seperate organizations on paper, but in practice all the legacy characters are friends with eachother. Kira has saved Erica's life. She trusts Kira to do the right thing and be responsible. Same thing in reverse. The different organization names are just a formality. That's what happens when you have staff that have been through 2 deadly wars together. The rules are lax.
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>>22576814
>>22576853
>with a mobile suit not in their possession and not part of their organization

For all we know, they could have some sort of "joint custody" agreement on Strike Freedom. That Strike Freedom technically belongs to Terminal, but it's on secret "extended loan" to Orb and Compass. The whole idea is that Kira wants to be near Strike Freedom in case he needs it for emergencies. Not packed away in storage on some distant Terminal Asteroid and out of Kira's immediate reach.

Not sure why you are obsessing over such things anyway. It's not like the Seed characters themselves give much of a care for rules and regulations. The moment ANYTHING doesn't go Team Lacus' way, they break out their secret Uber weapons and crush any enemies that challenge them. If the characters themselves don't care, then why should we?
>>
>>22576805
>You should probably add that he tried to claim Proud Defender was meant for Rising Freedom (because of some novel nonsense). That was incorrect. Proud Defender was designed from the ground up to work with Strike Freedom. Kira helped design and build the Proud Defender pack. Kira helped supervise the redesign of Strike Freedom too.
Totally forgot about that. Good catch.
>>
>>22576776
Text clearly says returned to ZAFT. I haven't been arguing here as this is my first post. But please at least know Japanese, guys.
>>
>>22576908
That's not what the text says at all. Stop relying on machine translation and get a person who knows how to read it for you.
>>
>>22576870
At this point you're just trying to invent things though, nothing like that is supported by the movie
SF and Destiny also aren't on-call for Compass, when the Millennium is sitting idle in Orb prior to being 'hijacked' I'm pretty sure they talk about how they don't know how they could help out since they have no deployable mobile suit team. Which gets solved when the Archangel team brings over SF, Destiny and Akatsuki.

Also this part I'll completely note I'm fuzzy on, but I'm sure when Proud Defender is first seen early in the movie when Kira and Heinlein are talking about it I vaguely remember that the emphasis of the scene is Kira hopes to have it ready to field soon even before the Foundation incident occurs, so it would be when he only has Rising at his disposal.
>>
>>22576776

Um. How about NO.

The text says the ship travels to ZAFT to help Yzak and his friends.

Which is exactly what happens in he movie.

It says nothing about ownership changing.

Stop making stuff up
>>
>>22576912
You making up a debate when there's nothing to talk about. Ignoring new characters like Agnes, almost everyone who works for these two organizations are very good friends with eachother. They do what they feel is right over whatever "rules" you think they must follow. If they want to secretly rebuild and upgrade Destiny Gundam...just in case anything happens...then that's what they will DO. There's nothing else to discuss here.
>>
>>22576918
>They do what they feel is right over whatever "rules" you think they must follow.
This is a great point. This is the core of Team Lacus' actions. If there ever is a question then refer back to this statement
>>
>>22576800
This is pretty funny. You can the anon making these is obsessed with little tiny details.

>>22576810
Hello Wackymodder84.
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>>22551772

What he said.
>>
Was not possible to upgrade and refit Archangel with new technology? If they gave Archangel a beam shield like other modern Earth Alliance ships from Destiny, then it wouldn't have sunk.
>>
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Just got past SEED Destiny Phase 45 (The Song of Truth). How did Torii/Birdy saying its name alert Athrun that there was a sniper aiming for Lacus? It's not like Torii/Birdy was programmed to scout and that Athrun hearing its name was to alert him of any danger.
>>
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https://twitter.com/Ngr___Ryu/status/1778770058527019022

Left one is so naughty
>>
Uh Cagalli and Athrun kind like having rebound relationship with in Seed but after that I just don't think she needs Athrun at all she should go dyke route what with fags forcing them needs to end up with each other I read Cagalli to retire soon to marry Athrun meh, is not she supposedly not like that Lazy pink hair who just want to get dicked by her man 24/7?
>>
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>>22577323
In a way, this is Athrun bragging. He has obtained pic. His enemy will never. He has experienced pleasures his enemy won't ever. How can he not be smug?
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>>22577357
I don't believe they are in that kind of relationship when they are not intimate when meeting with each other not even a hug, also it is known fact that Athrun is real gentleman.
>>
>>22577364
Even so, Athrun is far closer to it than Shura ever will be. He's practically at the finish line and can reach 1st place at any time. It's still bragging.
>>
I don't respect Orb at all. They need to make a Gundam. All their suits are weak.
>>
>>22577388

Isn't that the Akatsuki?
>>
>>22577416
Akatsuki isn't a Gundam.
>>
>>22577431
Well it uses the:
General
Unilateral
Neuro - Link
Dispersive
Autonomic
Maneuver


G.U.N.D.A.M Synthesis System
>>
>>22577263
Torii was likely programmed to just fly around people and shout when near them. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to code your drone to fly in random direction
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>>22577431
Isn't it just a gold Strike?
>>
>>22577452
Rising Freedom is just a Super Murasame.
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>>22577416
Akatsuki is lacking in Gundam level offensive firepower. Raider Gundam would probably smash Akatsuki.
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>>22577493
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>>22577486
>Raider VS Akatsuki
Hmm...

That's kind of funny. Raider uses almost all physical rounds and has a giant battle hammer. I think I could see it actually beating Akatsuki if the battle was on Earth.

Without any beams to deflect Akatsuki just had to rely on a beam rifle, beam saber, and two medium power beam cannons. Basically less power than the original Freedom Gundam.
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>>22577256
Yeah but why bother when they could build a brand new super ship and have two ships instead
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>>22576816
>Simmons also cautions that the Spec II upgrades are solely quality-of-life improvements, that SF and Destiny's capabilities are still their original specs - SF hasn't been redesigned to operate differently.

Yeah but the thing is that's wrong, as both suits have new features they didn't have before (mass clone spam, Deutrion recharger etc) Strike Freedom straight up has Mighty's strongest weapon built into it's head, that's not something the Proud Defender magiced in upon connection.
>>
Finally finished my Cosmic Era rewatch because I plan on going to the SEED Freedom special fan screening hours from now (1700 hours, Philippine Standard Time). Of course, getting a ticket was a problem because the website where to buy tickets is glitchy so I hope I can make it to the theater where its showing and buy there an hour before the movie begins.
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>>22576914
復帰 = reinstated/returned.

It's back to fucking ZAFT. Text says nothing about traveling to nor anything about "helping" Yzak. Your ass is the one making shit up.
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>>22577996
Not that anon but you are wrong. That's not what the text says. Translate the entire sentence not just one word. If you watch the movie they literally call it a Terminal ship with giant text on the screen.
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>>22578269
Stop arguing with someone who hasn't seen the movie.

He can't even properly read or write Japanese.

He is just being a sourpuss because he can't win his online arguments.

The movie labels it a Terminal ship in giant letters with a Terminal crew.

There is nothing to debate.

The anon wants to argue something that doesn't exist. He can't even translate his own evidence properly.

Again he's just being a bad sourpuss
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>>22578269
Ignore him. He's the Seed Shitter anon as seen here >>22576800. His favorite thing to do is make up fake claims. Tell people to prove him wrong while throwing insults. When they do it, he disappears and never apologizes or admits he's wrong. Then he reappears again later with some other fake claim. He been doing it for years. His favorite line is "That was a different anon! That wasn't me!". You can always tell it's him. Same grammar. Same insults. Ignore him
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>>22578392
That a really funny list. I'm saving it.
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>>22577520

Having seen the movie, oddly enough I believe in the Proud Defender being used for Rising Freedom theory now, because Kira seemed to be very surprised at seeing the Strike Freedom. If he was working on the Proud Defender all this time without knowing about the Strike Freedom, then there's reason to believe he might have originally designed it for the Rising Freedom.
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>>22578633
Kira made a surprised face? THAT'S your evidence? Newsflash: Kira just wasn't expecting Strike Freedom to be there. He probably thought Strike Freedom was located elsewhere and he couldn't get to it. Orb moved Strike Freedom for Kira. That's more likely why Kira was surprised.

Why are you making this more complicated than it needs to be?
>>
>>22578633
>>22578663
If I walk outside my house and see a Lamborghini sports car sitting in my driveway...that I thought I left in storage in another city, then I would be pretty surprised too.
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>>22578633
But latest databooks say and Seed movie staff confirm proud defender was meant for Strike Freedom. Rising Freedom doesn't even have a nuclear reactor. Proud Defender needs the power of 2 nuclear reactors to use its weapons.
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>>22578698
Some people are confused because the non-canon Seed novel said it was for Rising.
>>
I'm honestly surprised Akatsuki doesn't have a nuclear reactor. But they gave one to Duel and Buster. So strange.
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>>22577364
>not even a hug
What? Thats all they did in Seed and Destiny
>>
life goes on, i want to protect it...
>>
Finally saw SEED Freedom. My commentary (I know people here in /m/ have seen the movie but I'm commenting to share my experience):

1. It wasn't just marketing that romanized Durandal (デュランダル; Deyurandaru) into "Dullindal" but so did the official subtitles used in the movie.

2. While Cosmic Era was always bloody and gory, apparently, among the refugees used in the human bomb scene was a mother chopped in half as a result holding her equally dead child.

3. The island where Athrun blew up the Aegis Gundam to destroy the Strike Gundam back in the original Mobile Suit Gundam SEED (the rebuilt orphanage of Reverend Malchio and the head of the Aegis are shown to help remind of this) is renamed Akatsuki Island and it's a secret Compass base where the Archangel crew, Kira, Shinn, Luna, Hilda, and Mu retreated to after what happened in Eurasia. Erica Simmons appears here, showing she had the Strike Freedom, Destiny, and Impulse (I assume the third GUNDAM Simmons modified is that one since later on, the Z'GOK was hiding the Infinite Justice; please correct me if I'm wrong on this).
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>>22579585

4. Todaka got reduced to a mention in one of this movie's funny scenes where an Orb ship captain that threatened the Millenium to not leave Orb claimed he gets to try to apply what he learned under Todaka. This is before Kira contacting Foundation through the international rescue line (like what Talia Gladys did when she contacted the Archangel when she tried to get it to surrender in SEED Destiny) to taunt them, which led to Aura's failed idea of destroying the Millenium with Requiem.

5. The people surrounding me in the theater where I watched this movie cheered during stuff like Athrun's appearance in the Z'GOK, Athrun resorting to a beating to get Kira out of his funk over what happened in Eurasia, and T.M.Revolution's "METEOR" being used.

6. One question about the plot twists that the Accords were tied to the Destiny Plan, Lacus being created as one, and thus Aura actually being her "mother" (though now that I think about, it could just mean Aura was the ""mother" of the Accord project and that Orphee and the Black Knights refer to her as "Mother" for that reason): we see a woman who looks like Lacus talking to Aura in that picture Athrun showed to his comrades that showed Aura before she prevented herself from again. I imagine Lacus being turned into an Accord was similar to how Kira became the Ultimate Coordinator (being taken away from the womb of his mother Via by his father Ulen)? Speaking of which...

6. Kira is called a "failed one" by Orphee. If he was meant to be an Accord, then how is this tied to what Ulen was doing with the Ultimate Coordinator project?



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