Finished it today. It was very good. What is /m/'s opinion on it?
I like it
Andwhat do we think about Diana and Kihel? Were they good despite not pilotting anything? Or was Sochie better
Also it would be nice to hear how Tomino came up with the idea of beefed space hippies
>>23636748Laura rolla is a man who could have been like a woman to me
I don't like Turn A as a show, but I like almost everything about it.
NGE of Gundam. It's beloved by people who hate sci-fi and think they are "too good" for mecha.Just browse mechatwt for 5 mins and you'll sour yourself on this entry permanently.
>>23637034It's also the NGE of Gundam because the idea you could love it while hating mecha is retarded because so much of its DNA is a loving ode to the genre
>>23636766they're just a natural extension of the Moon Moon people from ZZ
I adore it. It's the only war media I've seen that ACTUALLY made me hope the war wouldn't kick off. It helps that the visuals are so gorgeous.
>>23636748it's great but some retards on some other shit hole website like it in an obnoxious way, so /m/ acts like a tsundere towards the show.
Are they laughing at Sochie?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAgC94Wob2M
>>23636748the best gundam series, the best thing tomino ever did and one of the greatest anime ever made.
So why did newtypes absolutely disappear in Turn A? Do you need to live on a colony to evolve and Moon doesn't count?
>>23638689I think in the King of the Wind episode Loran has a telepathic conversation while swordfighting with some ancient king guy so they still exist but nobody gives a shit or acknowledges them just like in G-Reco
>>23638716>I think in the King of the Wind episode Loran has a telepathic conversation while swordfighting with some ancient king guySince Loran didn't use telepathy before or after that, I assumed it was just a way to show that they understand each other without words
>>23638689Diana and Kihel are definitely newtypes.
>>23637888>the best thing tomino ever did Not even top 5. I wouldn't expect gundamtroon like you to know any better, though.
>>23638689I don't know what the lore is but in the production history I think Tomino was done with newtypes by the time they were making the late UC shows. Just wanted to do something different.
>>23636748Turn A just made me angry because it spends so much time explaining the environment and meandering in Kihels shallow imposter problem rather than actually be a show about mecha and real conflict.Im not sure how anyone who has watched Gundam before can claim they found it enjoyable. Nearly every episode is like getting a tour through a museum where as normal Gundam shows like G,Zeta and ill hell ill even give kudos to fucking SEED (its that bad) are actual character dramas about people truly living through a war. It easily notches in as one of the top 3 Gundam shows I regret wasting my life watching. Theres some "art pieces" like the OP image but the flavor of the show isnt worth it.
Only superior to V in the Tomino UC.
>>23638689I thought the background of Turn A was something like people in space colonies eventually turned them into ships to go to the far reaches of space where they created the Turn X or Turn A (I forgot what came first) for Newtype use. So it kind of makes sense.I dont know how much is from the show, of stuff after the show or my hazy memories though.
>>23636748What made me really love this show in the beginning was the episode where Kihel or Diana has to tend to wounded soldiers and they use the Turn A to clean the bloody clothes. It's so pastoral I think I've only ever seen one other mecha anime that has this kind of gorgeous setting and I wish there were more. Yoko Kanno music is amazing. I think it was my first exposure to her music since I dont think we got cowboy bebop here. Syd Mead's mechanical designs are amazing.
>>23638915Turn A Gundam has the same problem as G-reco in that the factions and their motivations and actions don't make sense. The conflict feels very forced.The whole premise is kind of stupid, given the technology gap between the Earth and Moon forces, the Moon forces should have stomped the Earth forces into oblivion.The proposed sequel would have been interesting to see though. maybe the tech gap would have been closed and the conflict feel more real and also to see some more of that art style and world
>>23636757>Andwhat do we think about Diana and Kihel? Were they good despite not pilotting anything?They were some of the most interesting parts of the show
It didn't hit for me until the 2nd to the last episode, specifically "For the sake of allowing people to sleep soundly at night!" That single line somehow retroactively improved the rest of the series for me tenfold and I enjoyed the finale very much as well as subsequent rewatches.
>>23637034I love mecha and Turn-A is my favorite Gundam. Am I no true scottsman?
>>23639259>The whole premise is kind of stupidit's literally IsraeliāPalestinian conflict
>>23639369well... as we can see in that case that the foreign side with better technology is stomping the natives into the ground through a brutal genocide.that was the point I was making about how dumb the viability of sustained conflict is when there is such a large technology gap, magnified by a thousand when you have space age tech vs 1920s tech
>>23639583>that was the point I was making about how dumb the viability of sustained conflict is when there is such a large technology gapThat was the point of the show in general. There was literally no reason for them to be fighting in the first place. The earth had more than enough room for both settlements, Queen Diana was literally willing to share all the moon tech with the earth natives and be as friendly as possible, opening up a way for cooperation. The fighting broke out be Guin seriously thought he was in a position to extort her and that he ran the deal, he was that delusional.
>>23639369it's war of the worlds but aliens are just humans on the moon
>>23639599>The fighting broke out be Guin seriously thought he was in a position to extort her and that he ran the deal, he was that delusional.I thought Poe started the whole shit.
>>23639777No it was the guy who pulled out a crossbow during the peace talks, because he bought into the idea that the moon people were gonna run them over unless Guin handled the negotiations.
>>23639330No you're a Turn Scotsmān
>>23639885Tairn-A
>>23639599Tomino thinks it is a galaxy brain move to depict an unviable conflict but he forgets it needs to be 50 episodes so it ends up being half-baked where the audience has to convince itself the stakes are real. Like I said the conflict makes no sense because it should have ended very quickly with total Moon victory.https://turnafeezy.wordpress.com/2024/04/09/the-legacies-of-the-turn-a-gundam-sequels-that-never-came-to-fruition/
>>23640037forgot to add I would have liked to see the Turn A sequel though
>>23636748Total kino.
>>23638915>why isn't this thing a copy of every other thing?>things that aren't totally sclerotic are bad!You're an overgrown child to who adulthood is an alien concept.
>>23640704Its less that its different and more that its bad at being different. G Gundam which was brought up as an example is different but its good at it.
>>23638915"Kihels shallow imposter problem" is the entire fucking deal and the point alongside Dianna taking her place and learning about war on the frontlines, thats the real conflict. Are you actually one of those strawmen saying "mecha is about the robot"???
>>23641061fuck that guy, this romance is my sole complaint in the entire series. i think kihel deserved better than a guy who always treated her as second priority.
>>23644090cope.
>>23644090But Harry doesn't treat her as a second priority, to him both Dianna and Kihel are equally important for different reasons, the thing is while he does fall for Kihel he still is honour bound to Dianna, and seeing how Kihel is even more competent as a leader despite being nearly undistinguishable from the real thing he starts seriously second guessing himself.The main fucking gimmick of the show being how nobody is able to tell Kihel and Dianna apart OUTSIDE of Harry (who's literally nearly fucking blind morever) should tell you how deeply he loves Kihel, nevermind how he's the main enforcer of the last and permanent round of identity theft which ends with him living the rest of his days with Kihel on the moon as Kihel poses as Dianna for the rest of her life.At some point Kihel becomes another Dianna to Harry as he leaves the real Dianna in Loran's hands knowing he'll be able to do the right thing, I have no idea how you manage to miss something that is stated multiple time throughout the second half of the show including the literal fucking ending as a last reminder.
>>23640000SCOTLAAAAAND FOREEEEEVEEEEERRR!!! (cue too loud bagpipes)
I'm a little confused about their relationships in the end. For me it looked like that he chose duty over love. But people say that he loves Dianna and even creators confirmed this.So what's the truth?
>>23645364I find it more fascinating that you care. The show put little focus on their relationship and youre left asking things like that because its such lame swill.
>>23645364Tomino just felt extra cruel towards Sochie and reportedly regretted it
>>23636748>What is /m/'s opinion on it?I think it's mid, even bad.
>>23645370Why even bother replying?
>>23644195No, theres a clear difference in how he treats her compared to Dianna, Kihel is a woman he can sucker punch unconscious and take away while the thought wouldnt cross his mind with Dianna when he already becomes angry if someone even talks about her butt. Dianna is sanctified in his mind but Kihel is a woman he can use like any other if need be, and thats why i say shes second priority to him which i dislike.>nobody is able to tell Kihel and Dianna apart OUTSIDE of Harry (who's literally nearly fucking blind morever) should tell you how deeply he loves KihelThis has less to do with loving Kihel and more whith how Kihel differs from Dianna. Harry catches onto Kihels true identity because of Kihels decisiveness and willingness to take action, while the real Dianna was less capable as a leader so that she gets pushed around by other factions against her will. Dianna's character arc in the series is gaining that same decisiveness as she experiences war on the ground while Kihel learns to be more true to her own feelings in the way Dianna always could be, Kihel is a better Dianna than Dianna and Dianna a better Kihel than Kihel, they are more true to each other than they can be to themselves, and Harry notices the difference because one of Diannas weaknesses had suddenly disappeared. It doesnt mean he loves Kihel more than her, and he leaves the real Dianna to Loran not just because Kihel is more fit as a leader but also because peace and rest is the best for Dianna, not to mention he entrusts her to Loran, who worships her as much as he does.Maybe Harry loving Kihel as much is how the writers want to frame it but Id say the show fails on that front.
not gonna lie, the plot was total nonsensical garbage - a prelude to G-reco
>>23636748It's my second favorite Gundam show, maybe even my favorite.
>>23649134I disagree the plot made sense it just wasnt very compelling because it often just gets the lightest of touches inbetween it spending so much time on the state of the earth or how we should marvel at customs, traditions and the not so stellar technology.>>23644089>is the entire fucking deal Sure but its not a good main topic and isnt worth building a show around. Its very shallow.
>>23644852https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrI3-3dyyRI
>>23650443>Its very shallow.maybe youre too retarded to see the themes of identity and authenticity the plotline actually deals with
>>23649108Harry would never sucker punch Dianna because Dianna is a frail, severely ill woman and his direct superior and object of worship to begin with, what kind of argument is that?Harry sucker punches Kihel because he knows she can take it and he needs to have her around to save both her AND Dianna, nevermind having also largely understood Guin's true character better than most, Harry escaping the ship with Kihel as hostage wasn't just a move to protect Dianna but Kihel herself, Harry was gambling hard and shitting his pants throughout all of the ordeal until they finally put an end to Agrippa, and he gambled hard precisely because he had strong feelings for Kihel and trusted her.>It doesnt mean he loves Kihel more than her, and he leaves the real Dianna to Loran not just because Kihel is more fit as a leader but also because peace and rest is the best for Dianna, not to mention he entrusts her to Loran, who worships her as much as he does.That's exactly what I said, to him Kihel and Dianna are equally important and he can't choose between one or the other, Kihel has become a better Dianna but Dianna is still the true and only Dianna and Kihel is still Kihel.Harry is in love with Kihel because Kihel is a strong woman who also has genuine feelings for him, Harry also has platonic love for Dianna as the ruler of the Moon race and the one that saved him and gave him a chance to prove himself, these two types of affection are equally important but ultimately not the same, Harry does not put Kihel below Dianna just because he gambles on a strategy that exists to ultimately save both, and yes, he entrusts Dianna to Loran precisely because both of them share the same respect and platonic love for Dianna, he leaves the real Dianna behind to another man he can trust so if anything you have to argue that Dianna is the one who's put below Kihel because ultimately, Harry chooses to stay with Kihel for the rest of his life.
>>23645854>Tomino just felt extra cruel towards SochieShe deserved that slap.
>>23652012stop being mean to her.
>>23652043I just wish her voice actor came back for something at least.
>>23637034I agree, I dislike mecha but love Turn-A
>>23636748My personal favorite full length Gundam series, if we're counting partials then S1 of 00 beats it for me.I loved the characters, they felt way more like actual people than most anime characters do. I also liked how you couldn't really call anybody on any side truly "evil" once you understand their motives (as opposed to Adolf Zabi).
>>23637034Faggot take.You shouldn't let the opinions of others color your opinion on a show, let alone Shitter users. The only good person on Xitter is Himmel, autistic as fuck but his love for the genre is pure.Also fuck Novus
>>23638884I don't care what you IDF plants say, I'm not watching Dunbine
>>23653076Even gym gymmingham? Those other wackos on his side?
>>23653076>>23653155Nah forget Gym, this man right here, I was an actual an actual evil.
>>23651981>because he had strong feelings for Kihel and trusted her.If he trusted Kihel so much then he wouldnt have to punch her unconscious to take her hostage and instead just ask her to cooperate. The fact that he doesnt means he doesnt trust her to go along with it easily or that he just wanted to save time by not giving her the chance to argue with him before escaping which would a disrespectful reason for punching her. Its something a person like Loran wouldnt dare do to Kihel no matter the situation even though he spends less time with Kihel throughout the series. The contrast of how Loran treats Sochie, Kihel and Dianna with the same courtesy and respect (although Dianna also receives his worship) while Harry also treats Dianna as a goddess but can criticize and talk down to and sucker punch Kihel clearly shows a difference in how Harry views the two people and how one is clearly worth more respect and care to him than the other.Loran is bound to Dianna by love and honor and Harry is as well but he is only bound to Kihel by love and Harry is a man who can put his honor above personal love. Its a sour contrast that Dianna is loved by a man that honors her as a goddess but also loves her as a woman but Kihel is only loved as a woman. Its a huge difference especially in the context of Tomino and how he portrays love and respect between men and women and women that can be loved but never respected as an equal or superior.
>>23653237You are over fixating on the act of the punch to understand why he even did it in the first place. The whole thing was to create context so that the switch can happen and no one could be known the wiser that the two girls had switch places, it's literally a fake out. She doesn't even need to Argue with Harry about it, because by the time this even happens Dianne and Kihel had already became close friends to be doing solids like this for one another. On top of that, Harry needs to make this a "kidnapping" because if he was just gonna tell her out right that :"Dianne's life is at risk because they are about to start a coup, in the middle of this hot/cold war, and things are about to destabilize even further before we can actually de-escalate the fighting.", and the lord of all snakes Guin is literally in the next room, in a position to figure out the true state of the moon side at that point, Guin would ramp shit up even further, sensing that moment of weakness, and then Dianne's life would be on an even shorter clock, because the coup would have to happen even faster so they can keep up the war.
>>23653237>while Harry also treats Dianna as a goddess but can criticize and talk down to and sucker punch Kihel clearly shows a difference in how Harry views the two peopleI have no idea how you can see this and still not understand anything about Harry, but I'll skip talking about the punch because the other anon did for me so listen well:To Harry Dianna was a mythical figure and again, considering how frail and ill she was he would not even dream of physically harming her.Yes, he would not criticize her OPENLY due to being chained by his abnormal respect for her and honour bound as his personal guard, but the fact that he realizes immediately that something happened with the first swap, met the real Dianna to confirm his suspicions AND ULTIMATELY AGREED to keep the swap going until the very end of the show is there to show you that Harry not only did have his doubts about Dianna as a person, but also had grown to respect Kihel just as much if not more.The fact that again, Kihel eventually became a second Dianna that not only actually loved him back and wasn't fixated on her long dead Will Game, but wasn't effectively the same person is what allows Harry to finally break out of his role of captain of the Royal Guard and love a woman as a man and not just a distant, romantic bodyguard, thanks to Kihel Harry himself can finally realize his own feelings.Not only this but in this very scene here>>23644158 where Kihel tells him to basically do anything he wanted to her as long as he told her he loves her, Harry immediately DOESN'T DO THAT and replies to her that doing that would amount to emotional ransom and cruel manipulation of the woman he loves, it's only because of the love that Harry and Kihel have for each other that they can go on with that dangerous plan, especially when being taken hostage by Gym, and in the fucking next episode they literally discuss how they hope to die holding each other should the plan fail, what more proof do you need?
I watched Turn-A Gundam for the first time last year. Now is the most beautiful Gundam series to me.
People who say that Moon should stomp Earth don't realize this never was an open war at any point until the finale against Gym.That was the point of Diana's (of rather Kihel's) speech episode where she backs down from war she could easily win.Diana always was holding Moonrace back despite the tensions, which is why diplomacy was always a viable option
>>23653256The reason and circumstances are fine and I didnt contest at all that Kihel wouldnt go along with it which she would to help Dianna even without getting to hear all the details but I maintain that Harry didnt have to physically hurt her to stage a convincing kidnapping. Dragging her along, having Kihel even put on an act would have been enough and the act of punching her instead just shows to me that he was in such a hurry to get the decoy plan rolling that he couldnt even bother with something so minor as finding a way to treat the woman hes supposed to love as much if not more than Dianna more gently.Think back to the scene where he gets angry about some guy even mentioning Diannas butt and promising revenge and punishment to his enemies if they even dared to scratch Dianna in a fit of rage. Its more than enough to make me believe the punch isnt trivial in regard to casting doubt on how much he cares for Kihel compared to Dianna. Sorry for the fixation but its a huge blemish on their romance to me.>>23653302>how frail and ill she wasThats not the point. Im not saying he would be able to hit Dianna if he loved Kihel as much, Im saying he wouldnt hit Kihel at all if he loved her as much as Dianna.>not only did have his doubts about Dianna as a person, but also had grown to respect Kihel just as much if not moreHarry only doubts Dianna's abilities as a political leader, he does not doubt her majesty or nobility or virtue. I dont think this is a very strong point to harp on because clearly Harry's complicity in letting Dianna and Kihel switch is not only motivated by love for Kihel, its also for the benefit of Dianna who is frail and does not excel in politics to remain on earth (the promised land where the lunarians want to be anyway) out of harms way. The entire agreement is as beneficial to Dianna as it is to Kihel so I dont see how that necessarily shows he cares for Kihel more than Dianna, it would be agreeable to him even if he didnt.
>>23653346>>23653302>Harry to finally break out of his role of captain of the Royal Guard and love a woman as a man and not just a distant, romantic bodyguard, thanks to Kihel Harry himself can finally realize his own feelings.It would be a nice reading if Lorans romance with Dianna didnt also exist. Harry learns to set aside his feelings for who is in his mind a goddess that he can never love romantically to be with someone that he can love as a woman, but it means that Dianna never stops being a goddess in his mind and thus higher above Kihel. The Laura/Dianna romance involves Loran, after realizing they switched places, to come to terms with the fact that the person he worshiped as a goddess is also just a woman that he could potentially allow himself to love romantically. Unless the ending is meant to imply he only attends to Dianna as a friend and caretaker/servant, Id believe that this is what happens and he comes to love her above all (even Sochie, tragically), both as the moon princess he once worshiped and adored and the kind and courageous woman he braved the fields of war with. It just makes the Harry/Kihel romance look worse to me in comparison when Harry never truly casts aside his perception of Dianna as a living goddess in his mind and lives with that image of her next to Kihel who is only the woman he can allow himself to love, not necessarily the one he wants to love above all.I'll pronounce that in the grand scheme of things its a minor gripe to have and it only occupies my mind so strongly because Kihel is otherwise my favorite character in Turn A.
>>23653360>Laura/Dianna*Loran
>>23653360To me it seems like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what both Harry and Loran consider as duty and the actually feeling of love for a woman.Harry and Loran both have platonic feelings for Dianna as the ruler of the Moon Race, Dianna is a larger than life figure, they feel indebted to Dianna as the benevolent ruler of the Moon Race who also tried to reconcile with the people on Earth, despite her flaws (which Harry knows better than most) she's an idealized woman more than a real woman, Harry and Loran love THE IDEA of Dianna Sorel.Both Loran and Harry also have an actual love interest, Sochie and Kihel respectively, in both cases there's an overlap when it comes to personal feelings because of the conflict between romantic love and duty.The difference between Loran and Harry on this is that Harry ends up overcoming the dilemma thanks to Kihel's identity theft, at some point Kihel doesn't just steal Dianna's physical identity but the very "idea" of Dianna Sorel by also being more competent than Dianna herself.When Harry says that there's no place for anyone in his heart but Dianna there's a subtle allusion to Kihel herself because at that time Kihel has become another Dianna to him, in that moment Harry leaves his platonic love for the idea of Dianna Sorel behind to have an actual love for a "fake" Dianna that to him is just as real the real Dianna, which he entrusts to Loran knowing they both shared the same feelings.Harry puts that platonic love behind to focus on his real love for Kihel, it's not Dianna Sorel herself that's a "goddess" but the idea of Dianna Sorel, and Harry transfixes that idea of Dianna Sorel on Kihel who's now a "realer" Dianna than the real one.Meanwhile Loran is the opposite, he can't let go of his platonic love for Dianna because Sochie isn't Dianna 2.0 like Kihel, he loves Sochie as a woman but he decides to put his duty first, unlike Harry who can both put his duty first and have an actual love interest.
>>23652012Which one?
>>23653399>Loran is the opposite, he can't let go of his platonic love for Dianna because Sochie isn't Dianna 2.0 like Kihel, he loves Sochie as a woman but he decides to put his duty first, unlike Harry who can both put his duty first and have an actual love interest.Thats a very harsh reading of the ending. I'd rather believe he parted ways with Sochie because of his romantic love to Dianna and not because of his duty to her, it would seem to fly in the face of his character arc dealing with his Laura/Loran identities and learning to trust his own judgement for whats truly important when loyalty and duty interfere with whats right and wrong.>there's a subtle allusion to Kihel herself because at that time Kihel has become another Dianna to himI dont view it that way. Harry only views Kihel as a superior Dianna in the sense that she is a more capable political leader but he never treats her with the same religious adoration that he directs to the original Dianna.In the first place the point of Kihel/Dianna is supposed to be that Dianna Sorel, the ideal of a benevolent and capable ruler that brings peace and stability, is not something that can be embodied by a single person. She only comes to life through Dianna and Kihel Heim who realize one half of the ideal that the other cannot embody on her own, thus showing the key to peace isnt autocratic power and rule but mutual understanding and cooperation between different people. Harry loves and worships Dianna the benevolent ruler as a goddess but he only loves Kihel the capable ruler as a woman, while I would say of Loran that he comes to reconcile with the fact that Dianna, who cannot embody the ideal of Dianna Sorel on her own, is a person like any other that he can allow himself to respect and love, dropping his image of her as a goddess in the process. If he didnt allow himself to love Dianna romantically there would be no reason for him to reject Sochie otherwise since then he too could love her as a woman.
>>23653346>having Kihel even put on an act would have been enoughThat's what fucking happened, in that brief chat as he has the gun held to her she knew was up and played along. This is the most cliche'd shit that happens in anime, fake knockouts. Why are you turning this into some womanizing, misogynistic, delusion?
>>23653518Fake knockouts? Im pretty sure the punch and her losing consciousness was real, Harry even half heartedly apologizes before doing it. The cliche is actually hitting someone in the neck or gut once and having them instantly faint for real, I dont think what youre talking about is a common trope.
>>23639599>There was literally no reason for them to be fighting in the first place. The earth had more than enough room for both settlementsIt's not too hard to see why it ended up breaking out in the first placeWith Guin, you have to realise that he's not just playing politics with the Moonrace, he's also playing politics against the other leaders on Earth. Showing "weakness" and letting the Moonrace take a bunch of terrotiry "without a fight" isn't going to help him with that. On top of that, he underestimates just how much more advanced their weapons are than the MilitiaOn the other hand, you have people in Diana Counter who can't understand why they don't just bulldoze over the settlements considering their obvious military supremacy, which is what that other poster is getting at. The selfishness of people trying to avoid making compromises means that the conflict was pretty much guaranteed to happen one way or the other
>>23653438>I'd rather believe he parted ways with Sochie because of his romantic love to Dianna and not because of his duty to herBut Loran doesn't have romantic feelings for Dianna, they don't even sleep together at the end of the show, Dianna herself doesn't have romantic feelings for Loran either as her true love, Will Game, died decades ago and she never gets over that through the entire show, something Loran himself also witnesses during the Will Game arc, Dianna's not a love interest for anyone but the long dead Will Game.Loran's feelings for Dianna are those of a subject for their queen, to him Dianna's an object of worship and again, that's why he chooses to leave Sochie behind, because Loran puts his duty as the Queen's servant, as Dianna's subject, before his own actual romantic feelings for Sochie.Should Loran have actual romantic feelings for Dianna then he would have acted upon those feelings at some point in the show but no such thing ever happens because Loran's love for Dianna is not romantic, as in sexual, it's platonic, it's the love of a devoted servant, and that's what he becomes at the end of the show, that's why Harry himself can safely leave Dianna behind.>Harry loves and worships Dianna the benevolent ruler as a goddess but he only loves Kihel the capable ruler as a womanOnly?Harry doesn't love Dianna as a woman, again, to him Dianna is an ideal and duty, which Kihel ends up embodying more than the original Dianna did on top of being somebody he could love as a woman, as again, Dianna herself never got over Will Game and Harry does not at any point make romantic advances on Dianna, but IMMEDIATELY DOES SO with Kihel because there's actually a strong, mutual attraction.If Harry's worship for Dianna was stronger like you said then he would have been the one who'd stay on earth with her rather than Loran, but that's not what happens because Harry's feelings for Kihel are not just actual love but stronger than his feelings for Dianna.
>>23653588>he's also playing politics against the other leaders on Earth. Showing "weakness" and letting the Moonrace take a bunch of terrotiry "without a fight" isn't going to help him with thatBut working out an genuine agreement where they get more access to moonrace and actual cooperation, would help him instead. The thing about Guin is that he's a man who flies too close to the sun and denies frivolously and adamantly that he's in any actual danger and he believes that what he says and thinks is exactly how it's suppose to go. He takes no compromises, and he takes no L's. So when i say that the war didnt need to happen. I mean that at the beginning he was already in the best position to solidify himself as the definitive leader of the earth, he didnt need to put on air's of being a powerful man, and try the run the bargin on his terms.
>>23653555How and why are you this pedantic. It's called believabilty, holy shit.
What was this about?
>>23653620>Loran's feelings for Dianna are those of a subject for their queenThats not the case anymore when he learned she switched places with Kihel. Part of why Loran doesnt even consider Dianna and Kihel having switched places is because by that time hes already developed a close relationship to who he thought was Kiel inappropriate for a master and subject, its why he feels ashamed at all when he finds out the truth. Its pretty understated but they do share some intimate moments, especially the private dance scene between the two which clearly has romantic undertones, I dont see how that fits with Dianna being unable to move on from Game. Its unusual for Tomino but Lorans and Diannas romance is a lot more chaste and subdued because they are still master and servant, which is the reason we dont ever see Loran doing something crass like Harry during the sudden kiss scene. Harry is far more inclined to view Kihel more or less as an equal instead of a superior outside of formal situations which is why he can act like that with her (another difference in how he views Kihel compared to Dianna, whom he firmly puts above himself), Loran still wants to honor the dignity of his mistress by refraining from such things. Its why we dont see Loran acting like that toward Sochie either until the very end where he stops being her servant, but you wouldnt deny there are romantic feelings between these two, would you?>Harry does not at any point make romantic advances on Dianna, but IMMEDIATELY DOES SO with KihelAgain, I argue this is not for a lack of desire but because of awe and respect to the original Dianna, whom he values so much as to be untouchable unlike Kihel who he can allow himself to be with. Like Loran his restraint is an expression of greater respect toward Dianna in contrast to Kihel whom he can treat differently, not that he doesnt respect Kihel, just not to the same extreme as Dianna; hence second priority.
>>23653620>>23655021>If Harry's worship for Dianna was stronger like you said then he would have been the one who'd stay on earth with her rather than LoranHe couldnt if he wanted to. One of the benefits of switching places with Kihel for Dianna is being put out of harms way as the moonrace figurehead and having Kihel be her decoy and ultimately replacement. Having the head of the royal guard suddenly disappear or resign for no good reason would just draw suspicion and compromise the plan, hence Loran is better fit for the task due to not being a part of the military or royal guard. Harry is fine with this because Dianna is someone he could only admire from afar in the first place, and I would argue he like most people desires what he can never have more than what he can have.
>>23654114he was channeling Banana but since that hadn't been made yet it put stress on the fabric of spacetime, thus the production error while filming
>>23655021>>23655026Are you the brit who was posting in the other thread?Because I've never seen anybody else have such twisted ideas regarding sexuality and romance.>especially the private dance scene between the two which clearly has romantic undertonesMaybe for you, since Loran and Dianna factually do not have that kind of relationship.>I dont see how that fits with Dianna being unable to move on from GameIf you don't see that then you're missing the entire point of Dianna's character, Dianna's already lived and lost a life in the past before hibernation, Dianna's undying love for Will Game is one of the things that motivate her further to fight for peace since she already lost her chance to find personal happiness with another person, everything she does if for the people who are living NOW and not herself, who's hundreds of years old and coming from an entirely different era.>Loran still wants to honor the dignity of his mistress by refraining from such thingsNo, Loran simply does not have such feelings at all.Loran has always been much closer to Sochie, his entire butt naked coming of age ceremony was with Sochie, Sochie always had feelings for Loran too and her whole haphazard wedding to Gavane was both a failed attempt at getting over Loran and a way to prod him to be more proactive in their relationship and trying to make him jealous.Loran and Sochie's relationship has always been more than that of a master and servant, which is why it ends with the two of them explicitly kissing, something that DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH DIANNA where Loran doesn't even sleep in the same room, let alone the same bed as her.>Like Loran his restraintNeither have restraint because neither want to get into Dianna's pants, you're incapable of understanding basic social dynamics, this is like saying everyone married who love their parents thinks they're more important than their actual partners and also secretly want to have sex with them, what is this absolute nonsense?
>>23655079Im not british but yes my ideals of romance are probably higher than most.>Loran and Sochie's relationship has always been more than that of a master and servant, which is why it ends with the two of them explicitly kissing, something that DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH DIANNA where Loran doesn't even sleep in the same room, let alone the same bed as her.I made the point he can kiss Sochie at the very end because thats when they stop being master and servant. That dynamic still persists between Loran and Dianna which is why they still maintain a certain distance and sleep separately but if you think she is spending the rest of her days in a quaint house alone with someone she just thinks of as a friend and servant I think youre stretching it. I take the implication to be that their relationship can develop into something deeper now that both are free from conflict and alone with each other.>this is like saying everyone married who love their parents thinks they're more important than their actual partners and also secretly want to have sex with them, what is this absolute nonsense?How did you get that insane idea from what I said? This is a concept that goes back to the concept of Minnedienst in the middle ages where a knight is allowed to admire and service his lady from a distance but the social codes of the court forbid him from loving her directly. The distance and taboo ironically heightens his desire for his lady because the untouchable is more sacred and valuable to him, which is the paradox behind the concept.Harry is the captain of the royal guard after all and his duty to Dianna and his sense of honor is modeled after such archetypes of knighthood, and I argue the above is applicable to his love for her as well.
>>23655110>I made the point he can kiss Sochie at the very end because thats when they stop being master and servant.They stopped being master and servant the moment they took their coming of age ceremony together buck naked while Turn A watched, lovingly attaching leeches onto each other's backs so they could become "adults" together, Loran being a simp in general and still referring to her as Ojousama for most of the show doesn't change that since that's how he calls nearly every woman in the show to begin with.Then the war started, Sochie got jealous of him because she thought he wanted to fuck her sister/Dianna and started the whole business with Gavane to get back at him, more war happened and after both stopped risking their lives on the battlefield they finally cleared up their relationship, much like Harry and Kihel only truly started to commit to each other near the end.>a knight is allowed to admire and service his lady from a distance but the social codes of the court forbid him from loving her directly.And at no point is this the case for Harry, which is why for the last time, he ends up with Kihel and leaves Dianna with Loran.In case you did not notice, EVERY SINGLE MOON RACE CHARACTER that isn't with either Agrippa or Gym's factions has the same blind adoration for Dianna.Was Corin in love with Dianna as well then? Was Poe gay for Dianna? Were all those random guards secretly lusting after Dianna because EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE exhibits the same respect and adoration Loran and Harry have for her? Just how many fucking kilometers of cock and poochie was Dianna carrying singlehandedly if according to you Harry wanted to fuck her all long just because he respected their respective social standings and was grateful to her for not leaving him to die in the freezer like what happened with his parents?For how much longer are you going to deny several, blatant on screen facts that prove your knightly love theory doesn't have any ground to stand on?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDUqR3wCfUI
>>23655403>EVERY SINGLE MOON RACE CHARACTER that isn't with either Agrippa or Gym's factions has the same blind adoration for DiannaIt's almost like she's their Queen or something, huh?
>>23655403>coming of age ceremonyThat ceremony doesnt change their relationship as master and servant and I dont see why it would since the whole thing is formal in nature. Being adults doesnt stop Sochie from being Lorans superior in terms of social status and Loran acts accordingly.>he calls nearly every woman in the show to begin with.He calls Sochie and Kihel that because they are his employers and the housemasters, thus he acts courteously with them because Loran is humble and polite. He doesnt treat Fran or Miashei or others that way because theyre his equals.>And at no point is this the case for HarryHarry literally spends like half of the show chasing after Dianna, trying to rescue her, getting enraged at anyone trying to do her harm, moreso than anyone else aside from Loran and Kihel. Theyre implied to be closer than Dianna is with her other subordinates since Harry is aware of Dianna's weaknesses as a leader (hence he notices the switch) and Dianna even knows about his habits like trying to act dandy in a MS. His adoration for her isnt a blind one but comes from an inner conviction, he literally says he dedicates his heart to her (which was the case before Kihel came along).>EVERY SINGLE MOON RACE CHARACTER that isn't with either Agrippa or Gym's factions has the same blind adoration for Dianna.Obviously not to the same degree when they dont go on the same do or die missions Harry does in order to rescue Dianna, their loyalty is much shallower since they dont go to the same lengths to secure her safety and political position, which is natural because they are further removed from her and dont know her on a personal level like Harry does, and its weird you think their relationship to her is the same.
>>23656902>dont go on the same do or die missions Harry doesTo specify, they spend most of the time getting pushed around and only join up near the end when the factions and allegiances become clear unlike Harry who is constantly maneuvering trying to secure Dianna's safety and maintain the political foothold of her faction from beginning to end. They dont go on some enraged tirade about how you are not permitted to talk about Dianas butt either, and Corin and Poe arent very aligned with Diannas ideals either since they quite enthusiastically fight the resistance so long as they think its on her behalf, showing how little they understand about her on a personal level, they are followers but Harry is a true believer.
>>23656902>That ceremony doesnt change their relationship as master and servant>and I dont see why it wouldYou're hopeless then, because Sochie specifically asked for Loran to undertake the rite of adulthood with her, because she loved Loran as a man and that entire ritual where they're butt naked together had a clear meaning that somehow you missed entirely.Sochie being an entitled little shit and bullying Loran has no bearing on her actual feelings for him, which is partly why she got Tomino'd at the end of the show.>Harry literally spends like half of the show chasing after Dianna, trying to rescue her, getting enraged at anyone trying to do her harm, moreso than anyone else aside from Loran and Kihel.Because he's the literal captain of the royal guards and the highest Moon Race authority on earth after Dianna, if HE DIDN'T DO THAT WHO WOULD HAVE? Poe? Corin? fucking Guin?You love to talk about roles, knightly romance and social standings but then you write shit like this, I have no idea if you're genuinely oblivious or plain dishonest.>and its weird you think their relationship to her is the same.I do not think that and given how you missed how I literally explained that I do not think that right after the greentext you posted leads me to believe you're either seriously illiterate, brutally dishonest to the point of mental illness or just here to maliciously waste people's time.Either way this is the last post I'm wasting on you, you're clearly not somebody who has any understanding about basic human relationships or even simple writing, if you really want to believe Kihel is just discount Dianna to Harry feel free to, you're just factually wrong.
It's peak, probably the only 10/10 Gundam I will ever give.
>>23657047>the rite of adulthoodThe ritual doesnt have that significant a meaning. It certainly means affection towards the partner chosen but whatever rando Kihel chose during her ritual shows that it doesnt express any serious commitment toward the chosen partner, its more of an honor than something like a proposal.>Because he's the literal captain of the royal guardsAn internal coup and power grab is literally where normal roles and established hierarchies start to break down and cease binding people in the ways theyre meant to. A man in Harrys position that is less affectionate toward Dianna could have taken it easy and gone along with the coup and gotten benefits for cooperating but Harry's sense of duty to Dianna clearly goes beyond work and status.>you're just factually wrongYoure too confident in thinking your interpretation of the scenes and relationships is somehow the only one possible, hence you think everyone that sees it differently must be illiterate when you simply fail to understand the room for ambiguity the story leaves, especially when talking about Tomino where implication does a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to characterization and romance. Its fine for you to hold on to your interpretation but you cant actually claim im factually wrong about it when there are no such scenes where the characters ham-fistedly state their relationships in unambiguous terms in a way that can be taken at face value.
