Mahler editionThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious thread: >>123663438
We just had a Mahler edition (in actual thread content)!
https://youtu.be/Y8CmLTrcRLgTerrifying... Tragic, and psychologic...
>>123682439No one cares about the OP anyway
OH MY FUCKING GOSH I AM TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT MAHLER
Muhler
but i mainly listen to eastern classical music
Fantastic piecehttps://youtu.be/lazYoLQpJM0
>>123682494examples?
https://youtu.be/X8S6dfcVWfo?list=PLVo-hDDpndsxwOR0apjRrVfmSGU7LBuHG
The sisterposter is really active tonight. You can tell, because he loves Schoenberg and Mahler, because he's Jewish.
>>123682544https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0QfVlVZ-Yk
Basso Continuo sonatas or Cembalo Obligato sonatas?
>>123682566he's annoying but he's right, that dude calling Mahler 6 and 9 Brucknerian made me laugh out loud
>>123682494>>123682573not /classical/, try >>>/mu/ instead>>123682566i don’t post youtube links unless it’s beethoven fart movement, obsessed rachjeet
>>123682959telling my indonesian girlfriend about this
>>123682971not /classical/, try >>>/mu/ instead
>>123683000not >>>/mu/, try >>>/trv/ instead
I once read Beethoven's 1st piano concerto was S. Richter's favorite to perform.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAro6CNSbHc&list=OLAK5uy_k-V0SOtFUNxLiK7QrFsIXYcS-nEhqKn2E&index=1
Opinions on Ligeti's Requiem?
>>123683031frankly repugnant
What are your thoughts on Boulez?As a conductor?As a composer?
>>123683099I don't listen to atonal pieces.
>>123683099bad in both with rare exceptions in the former
>>123683139Okayhttps://youtu.be/-n4Dq_rHbB0?si=8NCRYz9kUvfq8N3e
now playingstart of Symphony no. 6 in C minor, op. 58:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkqLmP-a0ow&list=OLAK5uy_l1LOTTWoyd38_vELapMfSZjzdRvv50QHY&index=2The Forest, Op. 19:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myL01o5kAn0&list=OLAK5uy_l1LOTTWoyd38_vELapMfSZjzdRvv50QHY&index=5https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l1LOTTWoyd38_vELapMfSZjzdRvv50QHY
>>123683161It's ok, I guess.
>>123683031It really is astonishing that Ligeti's Requiem can be utilized so many times and have such a hold on pop culture, and yet you still hear something new every time you listen to it. There’s a 50 year graveyard of pieces that try to emulate Ligeti’s micropolyphonic music, but can you imagine being the first person to write like that? There was zero precedent for music like that before Ligeti. He expressed emotions that had never been expressed before in art. It’s also astonishing that after centuries of Catholic tradition, a Transylvanian Jew came along and beat every previous composer at their own game. Ligeti wrote the greatest requiem of all time despite viewing the religious tradition behind the form as, at best, a fascination. If anything, that distance is key: Ligeti understood Catholicism as a vehicle for complex horrors, which is the perfect foundation for a work informed by his experience during the Holocaust. I don’t think a true believer could have done that as effectively.
>>123683395bait is supposed to be believable dude
I have come to the conclusion that unlike the rest of his symphonies, there is no satisfactory recording of Mahler 6 for my taste. The recordings simply aren't texturally clear enough.There's a short motif for the strings at the beginning of the first movement you can barely hear in most recordings. The Andante movement starts with a duet between the violins and cello and yet you can't hear the cello at all in most recordings. And worst of all, most conductors take the Scherzo at the exact same fucking speed as the first movement (even when playing it second, creating 0 contrast between the two and making the finale of the first movement feel completely pointless dramatically)don't know where I'm going with this rant I'm just pissed
>>123683442>average andante-scherzo tardlol
>>123683457I prefer the scherzo played second you fucking turtle
>>123683475how unfortunate, please switch over to the andante scherzo camp so i can laugh at you
>>123683099Great composer Decent conductor
>>123683442I'm probably in the minority but I think there are more satisfactory recordings of the 6th than there are the 5th, maybe even 7th and 3rd. Sorry you don't like any of the 6ths you've heard, I hope you find one to your liking eventually.>>123683457Is it cheating if I switch the positions of the Andante-Scherzo on the Chailly / Gewandhaus recording? It's so good otherwise :/
>>123683500yes, because the order of the movements heavily affects the conductor’s interpretation of the piece. just swapping the movement order does not work.
>>123683422I’ve listened to the Ligeti Requiem more than a hundred times including with score study, and I don’t think I’ve scratched the surface of what it has to offer. To conceive of a work like that in the 1960s is incomprehensible. The masterpiece of the 20th century.
>>123683509I know, I know :(
>>123683513you may be surprised to know that doubling down doesn’t make it more believable
>>123683500it's not cheating unless you're autistic (like the average 4channer seems to be)
>>123683328I don't know if I'd call any of them masterpieces, but I've thoroughly enjoyed every Glazunov symphony I've heard thus far, and other works too like his violin concerto, The Seasons ballet suite, and other orchestral pieces. Great stuff!
>>123683500well would you happen to have a recording of the 6th that fits my crateria? I would love to hear it. My favorite so far is Kubelik but the first movement is just a tad too fast for me and I want a bigger contrast between that and the following scherzo.
>>123683666>fits my crateriakek you can tell I've been playing Metroid
>>123683687i don't know what that is
>>123683666Off the top of my head, no, but my suggestion would be to look for recordings that have slower 1st movements in general and go from there. I just looked up a few that I really like that I know have long Allegros, hopefully one of these suits you:Chailly / Royal Concertgebouw (25:35 first movement!)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLedMz58GX0Eschenbach / Philadelphia (23:39 first movement):https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_np14qFnMBa_kpCFNHkFmd-AG5WWjryRZ0Michael-Tilson Thomas / San Francisco (24:26 first movement):https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n20nmiTAk-3mpJNKU4BaI3YNAIE0Xg8EM
Ravel Introduction And Allegro For Harp Flute Clarinet And Stringshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4nIlKTkUfc&ab_channel=Margit-AnnaS%C3%BC%C3%9F-Topic
>>123683747It's a video game series that started in the 80s on the NES, young zoomer. Kind of inspired by films like Alien
Any other soft Bruckner 5's like Skrowaczewski's?
>>123683887Thielemann. Not sure why you would want that, but he's very, uh, pillowy.
TCHAIKOVSKY - Hymn of the Cherubim((( The USSR Ministry of Culture Chamber Choir)))https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxepL6rzvW4&ab_channel=Release-Topic
now playingstart of Prokofiev's Symphony-Concerto for Cello and Orchestra, Op. 125:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAcmoa5WKBI&list=OLAK5uy_lfcbDYjE6tey4VH_VkTcbypbcNaBBq13M&index=1start of Myaskovsky's Cello Concerto in C Minor, Op. 66:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n2EPVXLMYA&list=OLAK5uy_lfcbDYjE6tey4VH_VkTcbypbcNaBBq13M&index=5https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lfcbDYjE6tey4VH_VkTcbypbcNaBBq13MHaven't heard the Myaskovsky piece before, excited for that, but the Prokofiev Symphony-Concerto is one of the great all-time cello concerto works.
>>123682411I listened to the Klemperer recording of Symphony No. 2 and I can officially say I get Mahler...what are the best recordings for the rest of his works?
>>123684165Glad to hear, but lol, check the previous thread, a bunch of favorite recording lists for the whole cycle was posted.>>123663438 (Cross-thread)
>>123683099>What are your thoughts on Boulez?I'm usually fairly supporting when it comes to avantgard artists, but Boulez is, simply put, a monumental piece of shit, a 20th century Lully.His corruption of governmental funds destined to the Arts (ruining the careers of 4 generations of French composers), the fact that this piece of shit won 17 Grammy Awards (you really blew those opera houses, right?), his absolutely selfish choice of becoming a conductor (even though he was barely competent and costantly took licenses that made no sense in that context). So, bad interpretations, the act of selling out the European avant-gards and cutthroat opportunism that destroyed the careers of the young, and why did he do all this? For nothing, in his last years he recognized that the 19th century was essentially a wasted century, that he was a bully and that his fame lasted just 10 years (after Stockhausen came in he had to sell out by conducting... imagine young Boulez seeing his old self conducting the Bolero: truly tragicomic). I'm usually not that harsh, but I'm glad he's dead.I find no faults in his compositions, which I find enthralling at times, useful (as a composer) always. He failed as a public intellectual and conductor (ending up ruining his cultural context), not as a musician.tl;dr: Boulez is a worthwhile composer, an absolutely inconsistent director and one of the worst offender to the academic scenes of fine arts in Europe.
Debussy: Sonata For Flute, Viola And Harp, L. 137: 1. Pastoralehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebmYKSQ30JU&ab_channel=WolfgangSchulz-Topic
>>123684234>that he was a bullyThe clue's in the name
>>123684295lol>>123684234Good post.
>>123684234>19th century was essentially a wasted century,
Ma mère l'oye - Ravelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5oVgqIbOqw&ab_channel=FrancyOrjuela
>>123683666Did any of these: >>123683826 work for you?
Is it just me or is this recording not very good? Love most of Skrow's Bruckner, but this highly acclaimed recording, hell probably his most acclaimed, often sounds flat and awkward.
Tchai Pas De Deuxhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Go1ah3Vds&ab_channel=MusicaCl%C3%A1sica
Bartok or Shostakovich?Prokofiev or Stravinsky?Mahler or Strauss?Brahms or Wagner?Liszt or Chopin?
>>123684789Liszt!!
Rachmaninovhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UHtxmkSEq0&list=OLAK5uy_moUr2br-Shinu8Zw3-aHMP1wBl64Moh0c
>>123684789ShostakovichProkofievMahlerBrahmsHmm... now that's tough, but probably Liszt because of his orchestral works too.
>>123684789Schnittke.Schnittke.Schnittke.Schnittke.Schnittke.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAVVXff_4BM
Dvořákhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J_t1OmrY_A&list=OLAK5uy_nGkfqs-qHZJOusqiYJfvJMV31S5Btz0K4
>>123684789BartokStravinsky MahlerBrahmsChopinPretty easy
>>123684789BartokProkofievMahlerBrahmsChopin
>>123684789BartokStravinskyStraussWagnerLiszt
Are there are any recordings of the Missa Solemnis worth listening to besides the Szell?
Here we go! If anyone wants to try this recording with me...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXcLdHIOwY&list=OLAK5uy_nMxtJpyRvdpVk7SP8XXpMd-xjMn3xGE4s&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nMxtJpyRvdpVk7SP8XXpMd-xjMn3xGE4sAlso I know it doesn't *really* matter, and I know licensing artwork or paying an artist or designer costs money, but I'm so tired of these album covers. I know it's standard in classical but still, the fact of the matter is album art plays a large role in a recording becoming iconic, I mean just look at Bernstein's DG cycle. Sure there are other reasons why it's more popular than his Sony cycle but the artwork, which is top-tier, no doubt played a non-trivial part.>>123684964Plenty. Shaw, Karajan, Solti (LPO), Jochum, Blomstedt, Bernstein (Concertgebouw), probably in that order for me
>>123684964KegelKlemperer
johann sebastian bach or johannes brahms?anton bruckner or anton webern?franz schubert or franz liszt?wolfgang amadeus mozart or wolfgang rihm?gustav mahler or gustav holst?george frideric handel or georg friedrich haas?sergei prokofiev or sergei rachmaninoff?richard wagner or richard strauss?john bull or jean sibelius?havergal brian or brian ferneyhough?edvard grieg or edward elgar?alan hovhaness or allan pettersson?alexander borodin or alexander scriabin?arnold schoenberg or malcolm arnold?carl nielsen or carl ruggles?john williams or john cage?johann christian bach or christan petzold?
>>123684789ShostyVinskyBrahmsCan't decide because I haven't hear anything by them in detail.
>>123684964Kegel so you can hear the organ and the most virutoso chorus ever>>123685019lmao Karajan is laughably bad.
>>123685019>karajan’s missa solemnisfucking horrifying
>>123685060>wolfgang amadeus mozart or wolfgang rihm?lmao
>>123685068Bro what's with your Kegel posting. He can't be THAT good across so many different composers.
>>123684964O fug I forgot about Kubelik, his choral recordings are very, very underrated. I'll probably try the Eschenbach one soon.>>123685068>>123685074I like it... I also love Karajan's Brahms Requiem and Haydn The Creation. He's a good conductor of choral works imo. I should finally try his Bach soon...
>>123685091I don't have *that* much of him in my library, but he was pretty flexible across composers. Basically anything with a chorus and him is god tier because he was probably the best chorus master of the 20th century
>>123685114>he was probably the best chorus master of the 20th centuryI don't see any recordings by Robert Shaw in your picture.
>>123685111his brahms requiem is atrocious and his creation is only good on account of his soloists. by and large he’s a terribly choral conductor because he hated his choirs and tried to drown them out.
>>123685111>Haydn The CreationHave you listened to Markevitch in that work?
>>123685124And that's because Shaw wasn't as good. He was good, yes, but Kegel was great. The universal level of clarity of diction and declamation, the sheer grasp of dynamic range - especially evident in his Missa Solemnis where Beethoven has absurd leaps of dynamics - I don't think Shaw's choral work rises to his level. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNHSyBu1zhA>>123685150There are multiple moments of the chorus coming in too early or too late in his Missa Solemnis. He was horrible at keeping them and the orchestra together.There's a funny story about Karajan's German Requiem where Schwarzkopf literally had to help the choir find their pitch they were so out of it. Think it was the mono one, absolutely ghastly
>>123685173Didn't know he had one, added, thanks!>>123685150>his brahms requiem is atrociousIt might not be the one I would rate the highest (maybe Kubelik's), but it's the one I return to the most and is an utter joy to listen to. But I don't mind 'Karajanization' so I get why one wouldn't like it.>>123685214I'll explore Kegel's soon then.
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BERu9dNNy0s&list=OLAK5uy_mEoSipS_6hCpTja2XtBpdC73XiViF2GyI
>>123685214Ein deutsches Requiem is so unbelievably trite. Sounds like it was written by an AI.
>>123685260Don't even wanna know you, dude.
It is time to set sail.
>>123685348fuck off
>>123684875morehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaUo2RqMZVc&list=OLAK5uy_kZB0nX5XHUXm60oKUU-gMq68YbQCb407s
>>123685348Correct
Ravel - Sonata for Violin and Cello, M. 73https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_Ee3E3C0Q&ab_channel=invertedninthchord
>>123685320any music that sounds Greek or ancient Greek?
>>123685387Love Vlach Quartet for Dvorak's String Quartets. Wasn't familiar with the works in that recording, added it and am now listening to it, thanks!
>>123685387Is this from something else? What's the source it's arranged from?
>>123685429Both the original and arrangements are by Dvorak. Work Cypresses/Echoes B152 is the string quartet arrangement of twelve pieces from Cypresses B11, which is a collection of songs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE5pWK5mj3E&list=OLAK5uy_lJWIjsVW7BNFV0ro8WE23Um1a-feRmy98https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypresses_(Dvo%C5%99%C3%A1k%3B_quartet_version)
>>123685536Neat, thank you. Are the songs good?
>>123685598I dunno, lol. I have only heard the quartet version.I posted the record in case you were interested in them.
>>123682411Mahler is relentlessly boring
>>123685616Oh didn't notice that link tucked in there lol. I don't normally care for lieder but I'll give it a shot because it's Dvorak, thanks!>>123685627Pfft I wish...
Haydnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pp2DgFy-wo
>>123685655Actually kinda charming recording.
>>123685410I have been searching myself and its all Lyre.
watching NFL football on mute while listening to classical :)
>>123685025I wonder if Kegel wrote any exercises for pianists?
>>123685725dont care
Does Hurwitz not like Karajan's Bruckner? I don't think I've seen it listed as a reference recording under any recording, and I've never watched his videos.
>>123685758Unfortunately he killed himself so we will never know
now playing (Symphony no. 5), time to see how these old-timers did it!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDs-c3H5PaY&list=OLAK5uy_lcDhqgq1TAoTaIGuw32x4E6g5u8yWJVIg&index=17
>>123685758Kegel excercises for pianistsheh
now playingstart of Schoenberg's String Quartet No. 1 In D Minor, Op. 7:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o168o6r_F1k&list=OLAK5uy_n4KQTy6EnFkdLyHsppfevALVFbYpJimJA&index=2start of Zemlinsky's String Quartet No. 1 In A Major, Op. 4:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOkr_O_NoWw&list=OLAK5uy_n4KQTy6EnFkdLyHsppfevALVFbYpJimJA&index=46https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n4KQTy6EnFkdLyHsppfevALVFbYpJimJA
>>123685869It's probably for Judaic reasons
>>123686730bad recording of an earth shattering masterpiece
>>123686797Oh, I thought you recommended me this one. Or maybe you said "others really like it but I don't," I can't remember.
>>123686797>>123686812Which one do you suggest then? I've got a few added.
>>123686812>Or maybe you said "others really like it but I don't," i said that, yeah. after hearing the juilliard quartet’s stereo remake of the schoenberg quartets, i’m convinced that the lasalle set is simply bad.
>>123686797Which one's the earth shattering masterpiece?
>>123686742lol maybe. I've seen Karajan listed for a few, most notably Brahms 2 and Mahler 5, but maybe the Bruckner+Karajan combo was too much for him to bear. It's just surprising. Like sure, there are even some posters here who don't think Karajan's entire cycle is worthwhile, esp. compared to, say, Jochum or Skrow, but to not even list him under any of the 7th, 8th, or 9th? Shocking, I didn't know there were people who don't consider those recordings top-tier, much less like them at all.
>>123686855https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGRXb1brgGo&list=OLAK5uy_m52KaDyDw8E4Cffwj0wd1_oCoeYjLzIIw&index=2
>>123686855>>123686881first of 4 movements*, it links to a playlist (I have to always add this disclaimer because people used to think these first movements were the entire thing)
>>123686855the op 7 string quartet
I don't really care for Schoenberg, not having studied music and such, but his String Quartet no. 1 has always been an exception; while I'm sure I don't come close to grasping the formal aspects at play and its structure, I've always found it immediately appealing in the way of the older masterpieces, or, as I often say, it just sounds good to me.
>What is it that makes these performances so spectacular? Conducting, execution, and sound are all at a very high level. Chandos recordings sometimes highlight ambiance over detail, but these recordings have a wonderful combination of both. Here the Danish National Radio Orchestra sounds about as good as the Vienna Philharmonic or the Concertgebouw at their best. The brass are sonorous and golden, the woodwinds have great expressive range from raucous and tart to meltingly liquid and round, and the lush, massed strings are abetted by a deep bass and clear stereophonic image. Segerstam prefers expansive readings, but they are never slack or meandering or on autopilot, and because he is a master of pace and rhetorical narrative, one's attention never wanders.>Mahler's music mirrors man and the world in all its beauty, banality, and pain. Transcendence, the natural world, hysteria, and tawdriness are interwoven. Boulez, Dohnanyi, Kubelik, Levi, and Zinmann tend to play the music straight and analytically, moderate the violence, and showcase Mahler's brilliance in orchestration and structure. Bernstein, Tilson Thomas, Tennstedt, and Rattle drink the emotional landscape neat and down Mahler's psychological brew to the lees. Segerstam gets effectively at both the structural and emotional content, while projecting the music with great power. He both analyzes and embraces. Of great Mahler conductors he most resembles Klemperer and Giulini but with more flexibility than Klemperer and a Furtwanglerian sense of orchestral sonority. If he errs in any way, it may be he enrobes the orchestral landscape in such a golden glow that at times Mahler's depiction of pain and shame fall too pleasantly on the ear, but these are no superficial readings a la von Karajan. Segerstam's recording of Mahler's Symphony no 6 is even better vis a vis the competition.Well damn, I'm sold. Mans knows what he's talking about.
>>123685652A sewerage flow of crazed neuroticism is in fact very boring.
now playingstart of Brahms' Piano Quartet No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 60:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUSVHNPayik&list=OLAK5uy_m-AuYoXwrc3QfGAq12DxwcUbSJJQkW6aw&index=5https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m-AuYoXwrc3QfGAq12DxwcUbSJJQkW6aw&si=yq1tI34HDa5_SHqs
>>123687092I'm sorry you feel that way. His music to me is as immediately appealing and beautiful as Bach's or Mozart's or Beethoven's. If it doesn't for you, then, well, it is what it is, there's plenty of other music out there! :D
>>123687115I am seething, I am positively bubbling over with anger, at Mahler being compared in worth with Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. An entire symphony by Mahler is not worth a single melody by Bach, Mozart or Beethoven.
>>123687150In fact I like him more!
>>123682504The dry sound of the strings is awesome
now playingstart of Ein Deutsches Requiem, Op. 45:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGtLymMIj-A&list=OLAK5uy_mdEGKfa-c9kBWVrZCyWh4voILgrXdUxzg&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mdEGKfa-c9kBWVrZCyWh4voILgrXdUxzgTough deciding between this and the equally magnificent Klemperer recording.
>>123687159I'LL KILL YOUR FAMILY
Please name the best overture from every composer who wrote one.
>>123686881https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X0-1q9PM34I like the Prazak one.
>>123687700Maybe in the morning, at least from the ones I like and standout.
>>123686946it's about as dense and dark as you can get with "traditional" tonality and only 4 strings. Very creative piece.
Which performer is the most creative with their Basso Continuo? In the sense of using more than just smashing down chords and sometimes doing a arpeggio.
>>123684789ShostaProkofievMahlerBrahmsChopin
>>123687700The Marriage of FigaroCoriolanLa gazza ladraEuryantheHebridesMeistersinger
Who wrote the best trio sonatas?
>>123689696C. P. E. B. A. C. H.
I love Bach
>>123682411lmfao. Mahler 9 on "period instruments" tops the charts!
>>123689879Post a goos recording
Bach invented Romanticism, and indeed they call Meistersinger the Bach opera because it’s applied Bach. Wagner was the greatest contrapuntist of the Romantic era and Meistersinger is the opera Bach wished he wrote. As Wagner said of Bach’s music, “That made me what I am. My unending melody is predestined in it.”
I know there are some people in music school/academia in these threads, so I want to ask: why do a significant number of people who study music end up becoming “Hi! Musicologist here!” types who hate classical? What is it that encourages them to use their education to make disingenuous claims about common practice music, knowing that most people don’t know enough about music to argue the case? Do they genuinely not recognise what makes e.g. the late quartets special despite their years of education or are they just lying to advance a political cause?
Haydn or Mozart?
>>123690809Mozart
>>123690809Haydn
>>123690809Mozart.
>>123690809mozar
>>123690863ella?
>>123690809Michael or Leopold?
>>123690874t
>>123690809mozart obv
>>123690809Choral Haydn btfo's Mozart. Symphonies I prefer Haydn these days, the Mozart ones are just too played out and tired for me to listen to anymore. Everything else, Mozart.
Why aren't there many recordings of Brahms' Triumphlied, op. 55? Sure it's a lil' bit kitsch and on-the-nose ala Beethoven's Choral Fantasy but, much like that latter piece, I quite like it.
>>123691182Guess I should've included the recording:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3aKWjJOo7o&list=OLAK5uy_nK-09R3D9bTOmxmOk1MN2j_w9bkBFCeUI&index=3
>>123689943Based, period instruments are for chad listeners only
>>123690809Mozart, the greatest composer of the Classical period.
>>123690809Mozart was perhaps the most ambitious composer in the history of music. He produced at least one, and generally several imposing masterpieces in almost every genre of music— concerto, song, opera (serious and comic, German and Italian), string trio, string quartet, string quintet, quintet for piano and winds, trio and quartet for piano and strings, quintet for wind instrument and strings, divertimento for wind octet, double concerto for violin and viola, symphony, piano sonata, violin sonata. Although he left no completed major work of religious music, his two fragments— the C Minor Mass and the requiem— are monumental even in their unfinished state. In comparison, Haydn’s major successes were largely restricted to the two genres of symphony and string quartet; only when he was much older than Mozart ever became did he create his most impressive piano sonatas, piano trios, and the important vocal works with the late masses and the two oratorios. And only after Mozart’s Prague symphony had surpassed in size and weight any of Haydn’s orchestral works, setting an example, did he expand his symphonic style.
>>123691241>only when he was much older than Mozart ever became did he create his most impressive piano sonatas, piano trios, and the important vocal works with the late masses and the two oratorios.Well did Mozart consider not dying so young? Shouldn't be held against Haydn's accomplishments.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/sep/19/previously-unknown-mozart-music-discovered-in-german-librarythoughts????????????????????
Anyone who's really familiar with both will ultimately choose Haydn.
>>123691391>some random juveniliado people really care that much? it’s not like they found a whole ass bach passion or anything
>>123691396further proof
>>123691241What exactly is your point? Just judge artists by their best works, regardless of how and when they were made.
>>123690809Bach
>>123689943The string playing on this is actually very idiomatic and probably accurate to what Mahler would have heard in his day, had he lived to perform the 9th. Lots of delicious portamento, less vibrato (but not no vibrato!), kinda similar to what we hear on the Walter Vienna 9th from the 30s.I'm not so convinced by everything else, especially the sound quality. It's very unnaturally airy, and the brass sounds rather diminished in the balance overall. The great climax of the final movement doesn't have near the loudness it should have. I'll give them props for actually being historically informed in respects to the string playing, which most HIPsters completely ignore, but I'm otherwise not sold on the recording overall. Good tempos, though.
Mozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcVqAII93v0
let's start the day with... as God and his spokesman Haydn would have wanted us to begin the dayHow's Levine's recording? I tried his Missa and German Requiem and while the orchestral part was great, the vocals seem too operatic for my tastes (there's a reason I'm listening to choral music and not opera!), but I like him for non-choral works a lot and read someone recommend his.
>>123692172>Levinenonce
>>123692185I like his Mozart a lot *hides*
>>123692172Wowhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4DT8uKBmzM&list=OLAK5uy_k_6eNSNP3FmQ6r1BktRehKVIlnV5WF1Dw&index=3&t=120(timestamped)
>>123692202
>>123692273"my favorite composers? Tchaikovsky and Britten. Conductors? Levine, Zander, and Bernstein."
here's the most objective possible list of top 20 composers of the 20th century (in chronological order)MahlerDebussyStraussSchoenbergBartókRavelStravinskyWebernBergMilhaudHindemithShostakovichMessiaenStockhausen BoulezCageBabbittLigetiNonoBerioi used scientific methods to put this list together and you can't do any better than it.
>>123692319My immediate issue is the lack of Prokofiev. Maybe Vaughan Williams? Janáček? Ives? Nielsen? But I'd only fight over the lack of Prokofiev.
>>123686730Try this
>>123692429Is that different than this: >>123686881
>>123692359prokofiev sucks cock>>123692440that’s their mono cycle, which i thought was the only juilliard schoenberg cycle for the longest time. i don’t think performances are any better than their stereo cycle if i’m being honest.
>>123692440Yea
>>123686999So I listened to the 7th last night and it was pretty good, distinctive. What's wild though is the recording includes the 7th and the 9th, and together it's only EIGHT MINUTES shorter than the Klemperer 7+9 package lol, just to give you an idea of what Segerstam's approach is. Gonna try his 2nd and 9th today though.
>>123692466>>123692479Ah. My favorite remains the first one I heard of it, which was a random youtube link someone posted here like 6 months ago that I immediately listened to all the way through I was so captivated, I should go find it and see which one it was. Odds are it was the LaSalle. It was a warm, musical, even tune-y performance which is why I liked it a lot.
>>123692466i think there's a little extra impetus and the tempos are more lively, but whether or not it's worth the cost of mono vs stereo sound is up for debate i suppose
favorite winterreise?
>>123692319>most objective possible>doesn't even include Scriabin, Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev who are objectively top 5, let alone top 20>includes trashy composers like Strauss, BoulezI'm afraid you missed the point of "objectivity" since your list does not adhere to it. Truely weak-minded post.
What do you guys think about performing vocal works originally written in another language in English? No big deal as the fundamental melodies remain the same, or is it closer to poetry where the sound of the words themselves were heavily considered and thus important to the music? Or is it even superior, as you gotta figure these works were written with the intention of having the words understood by the audience as its sung, therefore playing a large role in its content and overall spirit?
>>123692319Need schnittke, scriabin and maybe prokofiev
>>123693457do slavejeets really
>>123692969you asking favourite recording or favourite song?
>>123693457Great contribution. Based on this post, I am quite confident you don't defecate in the street.
It's insane that CPE Bach was one of the most acclaimed composers of his time and paved the way for countless composers to come. Yet most of his recordings are faggy HIP shit. I hate HIPsters so much its unreal.
What Stockhausen have you listened today?
>>123692969https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjR0Ar1J-Uw
>>123693557recording
>>123690809Cosima describes a most agreeable picture. Richard is in splendid spirits. Dinner conversation is more animated than usual. Progress on the duet between Klingsor and Kundry is proceeding apace, and there is a provocative new article on the Jews from the Deutsche Reichspost to discuss. After the dinner plates have been cleared, our couple retires to the parlor for their regular evening reading—this week, Walter Scott's Waverly. But Richard is in a mood for some four-hand music. Seidl and the other copyists are invited to join them. Richard takes out his worn copy of Haydn symphonies and sits down at his new Steinway with Cosima. Together they read through Symphony No. 82 in C Major (the "Bear"). Everyone is enchanted. "In him," he observes, "one clearly sees how the popular genius finds its way. The form is more compact than in Mozart; he always went after the melody, had no time to spare for the work (with the exception of the four great symphonies). This is why these Haydn works are also much more interesting." Playing through a Mozart symphony with Seidl confirms his reservations about Mozart, whom he pronounces "a great chromaticist," but adds, "he rarely gave expression to his nature."
>>123693603You're mad at HIPsters for being the only ones that care about his music? Be mad at the 20the century performers who mistreated him instead.
>>123693888I've only listened to 2 :(
>>123693987Which ones?
>>123693603Gould did CPE.
>>123693603https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnqnHOT5X8I
>>123694202>Even CPE's brother has non-hip recordings but not himselfITS FUCKING OVER
>>123694055worse than HIP
>>123693603https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLawrJgP30lZzCiBaqhP6OWd4_2L2A47Lunot hip
now playingstart of Taneyev's String Quintet No. 1 in G Major, Op. 14:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWuElbni4B4&list=OLAK5uy_lJUfGI87nYKK6Gf7f1_x-kDzR1ypnsTpE&index=2start of Glazunov's String Quintet in A Major, Op. 39:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNfdhUjjaDs&list=OLAK5uy_lJUfGI87nYKK6Gf7f1_x-kDzR1ypnsTpE&index=13https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lJUfGI87nYKK6Gf7f1_x-kDzR1ypnsTpEI think I've gotten somewhat tired of symphonies for the time being, so it's occasion to get back into chamber and piano music! We'll see.
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Zcs9WF8ik
Humehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1te09Ht1NCQ&list=OLAK5uy_mdtQPNOMA2F5ULJjxW8SSuuMH4mY26RbI
Is Parsifal too long?
>>123696162sometimes when the conductor is too slow.
I'm literally too dumb to enjoy the first movement of Mozart's 24th piano concerto
>>123692319Awful list, just awful
Found this comment in a random music discussion.
>>123696281>>123693519>>123693457>>123692359I'm sorry but science literally disagrees with you
>>123696333He must have Arathorn as a client
>>123696355Mahler shouldn't even be there for one
Why are classical boomers so snarky?
>>123696419a deserved response to someone who considers cage a genius
>>123696419I haven't heard of him, could you post some Grainger?
>>123696443Cage not 'cage' is a genius young anon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGMEPgXUoLw&list=PLU-9q-l1NU1LdSRdOblpOV8I3g8x83JmW&index=9&ab_channel=TheWelleszCompany
>>123696447Grainger has two types of music, his traditional folk song-related stuff and his autistic modernist experimentation with "free music".https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3WLm_3bvrw
https://youtu.be/zDxpa-XPMToOne of the main ideas behind the use of these national anthems is to have them act as "signposts" for listeners, as they travel through this unknown world of sound, noise and disconnected voices. Stockhausen felt that "everyone knows the anthem of his own country, and perhaps those of several others, or at least their beginnings." Another thing that Stockhausen has always enjoyed presenting is "an apple on the moon" - that is, a mundane object, trivial in normal surroundings, but VERY interesting in the middle of a jarringly unexpected environment. In any case, these anthems were altered in many various ways electronically, and sometimes one anthem would affect another.For example, in "intermodulation" (see TELEMUSIK), the harmony of one anthem would be recreated with the rhythm of another anthem, which would in turn be affected by the "dynamic envelope" of yet another anthem.These anthems are also enhanced as they appear with concurrent "scenes from daily life" - field recordings of civic events and rural environments native to that country.
>>123696509
>>123696863too scary
>>123696472>>123696509>>123696863do RYMtrannies really
>>123696978>>123696978>>123696978Yes there is more John Cage, thank you for askinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEaqoBGPpqE&list=PLU-9q-l1NU1LdSRdOblpOV8I3g8x83JmW&index=11&ab_channel=WelleszTheatre.
>>123696978https://youtu.be/HAtW8wezR18The structural organization of the anthems in HYMNEN seems to me to be based on an idea that probably began in KLAVIERSTÜCK V and would also play an important part in "formula composition", especially in the opera cycle LICHT. In KLAVIERSTÜCK V, Stockhausen surrounded "central notes" with "satellite tones", which were expressed as grace-note fragments. The other piano works of that time developed additional techniques to provide anticipatory and after-image colorations to the central notes (specifically through the use of pedalling techniques and silently-depressed keys ("halo tones")). In LICHT's super-formula, the central tones of the 3 main melodic formulas are similarly ornamented in many different ways to provide a melodic "story". In HYMNEN, the "central anthems" are intercut and intermodulated with secondary satellite anthems to create the impression of an individualistic, yet interdependent, human society.
>>123696995>>123697019thank you RYMsister
>>123697030https://youtu.be/rmWHQw8R8P8The anthems themselves were subjected to various kind of manipulations using the signal processing devices described just above. Some ideas include:Splicing and recombining fragments of several anthems and then reassembling them to form "new" anthemsIncreasing or decreasing pitch and/or tempoPerforation: one layer of an anthem would be intermittently muted so that another anthem layer underneath could be heard ("signal choppers")Looping cadential chords into drone harmonies and then microtonally modulating the chord tonesLayered reverb, filtering, intermodulation (one anthem modulates another), etc...
>>123697059thank you RYMsister
>>123696978Grainger WAS also a normal composer and friends with Grieg.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1FDk8__Nv4
Stockhausen raped sisterposter's inferior psyche.
>>123697125so true RYMsister, now it’s time for you to dilate
>>123697146>seething
Second Viennese School is RYM-tier.
>>123697177if you insist RYMsister
>>123697205That's why the sisterposter loves it
>>123697210John Cage 5https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W57Eaq4e7g&list=PLz-OQhjX-Bwgo-NWvrZ3rClIZgDvl3jFY&index=16&ab_channel=pelodelperro
>>123696978>>123697030>>123697076>>123697146>>123697210AN EXCELLENT QUESTION SISTER
>>123697363thank you RYMsister
>>123697397>>123697394WHAT'S YOUR FAVOURITE JOHN CAGE PIECE SISTER?
Favorite recording/quartet ensemble for Beethoven's middle Razumovsky string quartets?
>>123693457Boulez is good, however. Much better than shit like Rach
Is Rene Jacobs any good?
>>123697541Quartetto Italiano
>>123697551What piece? But if you like HIP, then sure. I do not, so I don't listen to their recordings.
>>123697560cool thanks, I've always had good experience with them, listening now
Sonic Youth Four6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzP6vY0Fyek&ab_channel=yuriesposito
>>123697551no, and he also looks like a pepe frog>>123697560everyone loves to recommend their middle period quartets, but much like their acclaimed schubert cycle it’s never inspired anything more than ambivalence in me.
>>123697600>no, and he also looks like a pepe frogI don't see it...
>>123697620he literally looks like a goddamn smug pepe in that image, unless you’re being sarcastic
>>123697620what an ugly mfer please never post him again
>>123697620>>123697629
>>123697620That's what I think the sisterposter looks likeCaptcha STDS
>>123697645he’s doing the exact same look and pose on the cover of his shitty missa solemnis recording, which is what turned me onto the fact that he is a fucking human frog-hybrid abomination
>>123697660This one?
>>123697541For Op. 59/3 I've been going for this one. It's extremely virtuosic and pretty much nails the metronome markings right on the dot. I think it's still the fastest recorded.Also, it's recorded by Bartok's son, Peter Bartok. Not that that matters.
>>123697671yeah, that’s the one, what a bizarre looking creature
>>123697671if you're so ugly why would you keep putting your face on recordings?
>>123697679I think I can see it now...
>>123697551Not really a fan. His Mozart opera recordings are highly acclaimed but I just find them idiosyncratic in a bad way
>>123697695disgusting toad mutant
hurwitz on jacobshttps://youtu.be/Xu-yara42rc
>>123697717God if You truly are up there please let both these midwits kill each other
Anywhere I can hear this new found Mozart piece, Ganz Kleine Nachtmusik? Apparently it was performed last night in Salzburg. TIA
>>123697725i don’t think hurwitz hates jacobs enough to kill him, he’d rather save that for klaus makela or something
>>123697717>>123697671This dreadful new version of Beethoven's Missa Solemnis takes an excellent chorus, four fine soloists, and an over-parted Freiburger Barockorchester and places them in service to a Dadaist interpretation that reveals nothing musically rewarding. Jacobs clearly has decided that he needs to do something "different," and that if that something bears scant relationship to Beethoven's obvious intentions, then too bad for Beethoven. And for us.
Anyone ever while listening to a piece you're not completely familiar with accidentally start playing a youtube video or other source of another classical work in the background, probably of the same form, and not notice for a minute or so outside of "oh this sounds peculiar" lol>>123697753>Dadaist interpretationKinda makes me wanna listen to it...
>>123697735Reminds me of that Zizek joke: "the only reason I am not against the death penalty is because Sam Harris is alive"
best place to buy classical CD's?
>>123697964DiscogsEbayAmazonYour local bookstore
>>123697541Dimov, if only to demostrate what a bad transfer it ishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeoLcYvOSSQ&list=OLAK5uy_kyeZvnubVlLoHol_-HunuBQyTUE2UecmU&index=2
Why do the o's in Soderstrom's name have lines through them but none of the other o's do? And to think I used to hold this up as one of the best album covers...
>>123698111His name is pronounced S-Zero-Derstr-Zero-M
now playingstart of Symphony No. 82 in C Major, Hob. I:82 "L'ours":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zPghydZ_lQ&list=OLAK5uy_nR8rQnCMhfHDVZvih6-1-0ntxlGeq5CHA&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nR8rQnCMhfHDVZvih6-1-0ntxlGeq5CHAFirst time listening to Haydn's Paris Symphonies, and I love Bernstein's Haydn. Should be a good time!editorial excerpt:>Leonard Bernstein was simply one of the great Haydn conductors of all time. Not only did he characterize Haydn's music vividly and get his orchestras to play it well, he took the trouble to study period performance and teach his musicians things like how to play Haydn's trills correctly. Lacking period instruments, this is as authentic a set of Haydn performances as you could want to hear. Every one of these wonderful Paris Symphonies emerges as an individual work of great qualities. The recordings have been lovingly remastered and surpass more recent Haydn recordings sonically as well as musically. --Leslie Gerber
>>123698111because she's swedish and that's how her name is spelled. idiot
>>123698382o lol figured it was something like that
now playingstart of String Quartet No. 3 in G major, Op. 26 "Slavonic":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOVlAOxmZWE&list=OLAK5uy_lNBZoa9tyfA2fBbIa02q-R_ltby2HSHaY&index=2start of String Quartet No. 5 in D minor, Op. 70:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQiEl-IgBG0&list=OLAK5uy_lNBZoa9tyfA2fBbIa02q-R_ltby2HSHaY&index=6https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lNBZoa9tyfA2fBbIa02q-R_ltby2HSHaY
>>123698377>>Leonard Bernstein was simply one of the great Haydn conductors of all time. Not only did he characterize Haydn's music vividly and get his orchestras to play it well, he took the trouble to study period performance and teach his musicians things like how to play Haydn's trills correctly.Interesting, it reminds me the first time I heard Haydn's surprise symphony, in G Major, no. 94.It was 73, Bernstein was in the podium with the trusthy Vienna Phil. I'd never heard Haydn before, and found myself thoroughly entertained. I'd heard Haydn was a fun-loving fellow, and it certainly showed in his music. I distinctly remember bopping my head to the tune of the first movement. But nothing could prepare me for the absolute show of wit that was about to come in movement number 2, when happened the eponymous suprise.A sudden blast! A loud, fortissimo chord, and just after a lenghty pianissimo section! I burst out laughing. "Oh Haydn" I remember thinking, barely managing to think straight at all between my chuckles and wheezing. "What a prankster! What a jokester!"The audience attemped to calm me down, some even asking how I'd not known about the famous suprise by then, popular as it was. Were they not happy one had been lucky enough to live to that point and still feel the pure, unadulterated Haydn genius? Were they jealous? I did not know then, and do not care now.I tried to calm myself, but kept chuckling all throughout the variations in the next movement. At the edge of my seat, I waited for the repeat of the blast, this time hoping to control myself. Imagine my surprise then, during the repeat of the first section, when the surprise surprised me further by not showing up at all! At that point I feared for my life, such was the lack of oxygen from my guffawling fit.They only managed to removed me from the facility putting an end to my disruption after I'd already soaked the floor in urine.
>>123697541Hungarian Quartet (stereo)
idc i like it
>>123699385my condolences
A powerful trans icon
>>123699557Wagner looking built af here
>>123699713the clean shaven look is way better on xer, xhe should do it more often
>>123699721That's why I shave erryday. Not that I could grow any substantial, non-embarrassing facial hair really anyway but still
is there anyone who conducts like Barbirolli today or in recent times? basically with the benefit of modern production. I feel like most contemporary conductors I've listened to don't really let loose in the same way, but instead really on precision and, at most, small gambles.
>>123699773if they aren't of the milquetoast variety*, of course
>>123699713That's Mahler bro you need to brush up on your classical composers
>>123699808?
I introduce you to Couchie Wouchie, the resident Wagnerite of talkclassical:https://www.talkclassical.com/threads/couchie.19302/He's been going at it for over a decade.
>>123699907You may even find him on reddit!
now playingstart of Piano Quintet in G Minor, Op. 57:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYX3s8pM9K8&list=OLAK5uy_k-vRjpU6_Pt9CZ3uwzF1NF0I6aioJXk5Y&index=2start of Piano Trio No. 2 in E Minor, Op. 67:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk3YW89C5mo&list=OLAK5uy_k-vRjpU6_Pt9CZ3uwzF1NF0I6aioJXk5Y&index=6https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k-vRjpU6_Pt9CZ3uwzF1NF0I6aioJXk5Y>>123699907>>123699914Gotta appreciate that level of dedication, love, and autism.
>>123699907>>123699914Why?
>>123699914Everything this guy posts is funny.
>>123699951What's the secret!?
>>123700002Keep listening my friend. And maybe one day you will hear Wagner.
>>123700025lol love this guy
>>123700045He seems to be mentally unstable.
>>123700069Well that's just sad.
>>123700125Genius often borders on insanity.
now playingstart of Schmidt's Symphony No. 4 in C Major:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR2LUbrEsGI&list=OLAK5uy_lWfy1JILUUTR99TQ6p3VUO42v3Y_oF-JU&index=2start of Strauss' Symphonisches Fragment aus Josephs-Legende, Op. 64a, TrV 231a:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKIbDEbTGbo&list=OLAK5uy_lWfy1JILUUTR99TQ6p3VUO42v3Y_oF-JU&index=5https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lWfy1JILUUTR99TQ6p3VUO42v3Y_oF-JU
>>123699773thank fucking god there isn’t
>>123700249This is great, can't wait to listen to his other symphonies and works.
>I own a few other recordings of this piece: Karajan (overrated IMO), Haitink (not bad), Mravinsky (fine example why government-made appointment is not a good thing).Savage. Favorite recordings of Shostakovich 10?
>>123701017the shortest possible one, probably
Listening to Mendelssohn's second piano trio.Ma, Perlman, and Ax.
>>123693603https://youtu.be/V1lbBkslxbYThis recording is so fucking anal. Was hoping because it used a actual piano that it'd be any good but it's a fortepiano that's quieter than crickets. Even the harpsichord recording is better, which wasn't even what the piece was written for. But at least it's string orchestra sounds normal and not like gutteral string brushing sounds.https://youtu.be/iTbzyNNsXoU
NEW THREAD>>123702877>>123702877>>123702877
>>123702880That is punctual. Gotta respect.
>>123682411>>123697728How long until we get the new Mozart on youtube?
