Is it possible for non-musicians to appreciate jazz?
>>128677326not at all, if they do, they appreciate it for the wrong reasons. same with people who claim they like jazz and listen to fusion/free jazz
>>128677326yes, though they obviously won't get as much out of it compared to a someone knowledge in music theory. jazz was one of the predominant pop musics once upon a time
Possible but unlikely.
I can't even recognise any single note and I do love jazz
most of the people who've appreciated any major genre have been non-musicians. just because you can't appreciate it for all the same reasons a musician of the genre can (because they have a certain knowledge) doesn't mean you can't appreciate it at all, nor that it can't be extremely meaningful - more than it is for some musicians, even.
Ordinary, uncredentialed people used to pay for a ticket to a dancehall to dance to jazz music. Music listeners today are so profoundly retarded they can't rise to the same musical challenge as 1950s teenyboppers
Not music
what makes you think most people who appreciate jazz are musicians to begin with?
>>128677326I'm not a musician per se but I took 2 years of piano and I think non-videogame and anime jazz sucks and is unlistenable, it's just old black punk music (aka noise) for pseuds
>>128677766niggas like Adam Nealy are the only ones who shill for it aside from geezer gen xers and older who inherited their tastes from their parents' record-playing during their childhoods
>>128677485because jazz was the rap of its time, it was merely the popular thing and the musical backdrop of the era
>>128677366>most of the people who've appreciated any major genre have been non-musicians.I guarantee this isn't true for Classical, and I believe OP's premise is warranted as well.Plenty of people don't appreciate jazz in its non-popular forms. Such as myself.
>>128677829even accepting that premise, which I don't, appreciating a genre doesn't mean you'll necessarily shill it on social media
>>128677853>I guarantee this isn't true for Classical, and I believe OP's premise is warranted as well.a small minority people have ever been and are musicians, and classical is a major genre internationally (though it's obviously not the most popular in modernity, it's still rather broad and far-reaching). this is true even historically. just think of all the people who would've listened to Bach's music in church, for instance: do you really suppose most of them were musicians?>Plenty of people don't appreciate jazz in its non-popular formsyou're already moving the goalpost, and that statement is redundant, respectfully.>non-popular forms of a genre aren't popular
>>128677853>I guarantee this isn't true for ClassicalExplain how classical records routinely sold in the millions during the genre's commercial peak
>>128678554They didn't. Too many notes.
>>128677326Jazz is only appreciated by the people who made it, end of.
>>128678636lol
>>128678554>the genre's commercial peakthe 1700s?
>>128677335There is no argument against fusion that can't also be applied to organ trios.
>>128677335>if they do, they appreciate it for the wrong reasonswhat are the "right" reasons to appreciate music from a given genre, or jazz in particular?
>>128677942>just think of all the people who would've listened to Bach's music in churchA few hundred who showed up to the churches he played at?
>>128678554Classical recordings focused on good sound quality before popular music recordings did. Classical was very important to early digital recording, and there was no retro audio culture of pretending vinyl was good. If you had a CD player in the mid 80s you bought Brothers in Arms, and then you basically had to buy classical or you would have wasted it.
>>128678684yes. I also said "for instance". the point being most contexts in which classical was played, the majority of the consumers were non-musicians. again, most consumers of major genres aren't musicians themselves.
>>128677853Then why are people's, who listen exclusively to classical, understanding of theory so limited?
>>128677326I like jazz and I’m not a musician. I’m sure I’m missing lots of nuance, but it still sounds good to my ears. That’s all I really care about.
>>128677326I was reading Suicide liner notes for their first album. And Rev was so into jazz, Thelonious Monk, being the hipster jazz he was most into that and Cecil Taylor If this stuff didn't exist there would be no Suicde and Suicide is extension of that
>>128677326i would go a step further and argue if you aren't also black then you can't fully appreciate jazz
>>128677326Yes:Swing, old jazz, Hard Bop, lower tempo melodic modern jazz (Naima for instance), groove-based Jazz FusionEven if you like it, you don't get it:high tempo Bebop, Free Jazz
>>128677853In the earlier times, all of the classical music audience were upper class, and most of the upper class women (and many men) could play piano fluently.They weren't musicians, but they knew theory.
>>128679461I'd go another step and say you have to be on heroin.
yes
>>128677326No, but it's also impossible for most musicians, as they aren't good enough for it to make any difference.Important exception: dancers, who are also music artists, and swing is made for dancing to.
>>128677326maybe
>>128679883some jazz is for dancers only https://youtu.be/2Xpi4t0PoPo
>>128677326I know nothing about music theory, anything academic about music, I do not know. I love jazz, and you can not tell me I am enjoying it wrong mongoloid.
>>128677326Is it possible for a poser like yourself to listen to anything else than the same 3 artists????
>>128677326Take Five is a very popular song
only good jazz is early jazz
>>128679461meanwhile the most ardent and vociferous of Jazz proponents are Caucasian
>>128679568>They weren't musiciansyou niggas are trying to define "musicians" as "plays for a living"
>>128677326Happens all the time if you grew up with it. People who ask this question grew up with nothing but the language of pop/rock tonality so something like jazz comes off as gibberish.
>>128677326it's pop music, mate. just because academia over-intellectualized doesn't mean you have to
>>128677829go outside to a club or festival retard, jazz is a genre with an even lower fan-to-musician ratio since it's too hard to play for most people. meanwhile if you go to a black metal concert, a third of the people there play blast beats and power chords as a hobby
>>128677326People who don't get jazz have to use this "if I played an instrument then I'd understand it" cope to make up for their lack of inner faculties. Just about all jazz fans during the 1950s-60s didn't know jack about theory or performance. It's always been like this. Watch any biography or go to any major jazz festival, it's obvious.
>>128678671Do organ trios use guitar, an instrument objectively inferior when it comes to harmonic possibilities?
>>128679461correct>>128682277that's quantity, not quality
>>128677326The man they call Coltrane
>>128679527>groove-based Jazz Fusionso 98% of jazz fusion
>>128681263you're supposed to pick a cut-off year if you want to fit in.
>>128682613guitar is ok when it replaces the drummer
>>128678680this. the "oh you're not appreciating this the way I think you should" is the most gatekeepy shit ever.you see that insecurity manifest itself in most if not all genres - "no that's not REAL jazz!" "that's not REAL punk!" "that's not REAL hip-hop!". stupid, lame shit.music is made by those who hear it. so yeah OP people who don't necessarily play instruments or sing can still appreciate jazz.
>>128682784that depends, is it replacing a pop/rock drummer or a jazz drummer
>>128682784If you mean like Herb Ellis in the OP trio, then based
>>128682785or funk.if you've listened to Hootie all your lfe, then Dave Matthews is going to seem funky as hell. If you've listened to DMB, then Booty's Rubber Band is going to seem funky as hell and Hootie will seem very non-funky.It's entirely in the ear of those who hear it.
>>128678702>no retro audio culture of pretending vinyl was goodAbsolute dogshit. Google "Harry Pearson The Absolute Sound". They published an annual "Superdisk" list of vinyl records, primarily of classical recordings from labels like RCA's Living Stereo and Mercury's Living Presence. I know this because I memorized the list in the early 2010s and got many of them at thrift stores. These recordings can still command high prices on the resale market today. Or just look up the classical and conversation thread on Steve Hoffman, since those titles are mostly still in print from Acoustic Sounds and they talk about them constantly
>>128677326>Is it possible for non-musicians to appreciate jazz?Not only possible, they are doing most of the shillinghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_theory#Education_and_careersit's a burger racketOne of those pedantic losers in action:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNOTeF-CshU
>>128682292Yes. Otherwise it's a hobby.
>>128682292you play a clown on the internet but i bet you dont consider yourself as being one or make a living from being one irl. its kinda like that
ITT: OP played around on fruity loops in his bedroom 15 years ago and thinks hes cooking now that he listened to a coltrane album
>>128682790replacing a jazz drummer, plays like a drummer and takes about the same amount of solos
>>128684545I need a translation
