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File: 1738205179735580.webm (3.91 MB, 1280x720)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbKmhNoTvW8
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>helicopter route crosses DCA approach
>>
>>2032138
What type of a/c was the AA?
>>
>>2032143
>American Airlines Flight 5342
looks like a CRJ700
>>
N709PS and a US Army UH-60

60 pax on the CRJ, unknown on the black hawk

they're fishing bodies out of the potomac, they've got 14 so far
>>
>>2032144
Good riddance.

But also, F for the people on board.
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>>2032138
Fuck.
How did the huey not have cause to turn or anything before ending up crossing with the CRJ?
I'm guessing significantly airspeeds?
>>
>>2032151
>significantly different airspeeds
>>
Shit is on the helicopter pilot. Probably suicide.
>>
ATC pass behind the CRJ
https://archive.liveatc.net/kdca/KDCA1-Twr-Jan-30-2025-0130Z.mp3

Starts around 17:30
>>
>>2032148
>Good riddance.
The 700 isn't bad.
>>
I fly out of an airport with an F-35 base a lot and it’s maddening that you cannot hear these motherfuckers on the radio unless they bother to swap over to VHF freq’s. So if tower or approach isn’t talking to them you can’t hear them, and you have infer what they say by what tower instructs responds to them as.

Legit pet peeve. And they are fast as balls so they are on you like flies. Though whatever its fighter jets what can you do there.
>>
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Why did helicopter not avoid?
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>>2032167
literal senior citizen posting
>>
>>2032167
>why did they just not crash lol
thank you mr. president
one theory is that when the helicopter was asked if they had the CRJ in sight they thought the tower was referring to a different one that was departing around the same time
>>
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Christ you that's really bad
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>>2032170
holy fuck is this real, where did you find this pic
>>
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Why did TCAS not work? Did the helo not have it
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>>2032167
>Not Good
What an ender.
>>
Wednesday night, an American Airlines plane collided with a military helicopter in Washington, DC, resulting the deaths of over sixty people. It's nice to see the U.S. military back doing what it does best: killing civilians.
>>
>>2032169
The military claims it was a training flight but isn't a night time flight near a busy airport too hardcore for newbie pilots? Shouldn't the training start at a smaller airport that is less busy?
>>
>>2032176
Depends on what part of training they’re in. But generally speaking in the civilian world, most instructors are going to take their students to a big airport at least once so they can experience what it’s like. So I imagine it’s not much different for military.

But also, training doesn’t necessarily mean a new pilot. Could be a seasoned pilot converting to a different model. Could be a yearly “yes, you’re a desk jockey but you still need to show you still know how to fly” currency flight. Could be a “duck it, let’s go get something to eat and call it a training flight”
>>
The plane flying in from Kansas to Washington DC was full of young figure skaters and their coaches

>Several coaches and skaters with the United States figure skating team were on the flight from Wichita to Washington, D.C., that crashed Wednesday night, according to athletes. The skaters were part of the National Development Team, a training program for top juvenile figure skaters. The U.S. Figure Skating Championships were held in Wichita from Jan. 20 to Jan. 26. Some young athletes stayed in the city until Jan. 28, for National Development Camp, an advanced training program. Team USA pair skater Luke Wang told McClatchy News that skaters who qualified for the elite division stayed an extra day, after which Wang said several boarded American Airlines Flight 5342. Wang and others were notified by U.S. Figure Skating via text after the crash. “Praying for all those on the flight from wichita to dc,” Wang wrote on X on Wednesday night. “among the passengers were skaters and coaches. absolutely heartbreaking.”

https://x.com/lukeawang/status/1884828497463419018
>>
>>2032170
apparently it's only 7 feet of water, so they basically smashed into the riverbed.
and the airport is right behind them too, grim
>>
>>2032173
TCAS is not standard equipment in military aircraft that will usually fly VFR.
>>
>>2032173
Military aircraft aren't required to have it, though me thinks that's going to change very quickly here
>>
>>2032187
TCAS would make no difference. You don't follow TCAS RA on a VFR flight.
>>
>>2032188
True, but it wouldn't hurt to have it installed.
Plus, it seems DCA's tower had CA (Collision Alert) for the aircraft involved not even 30 seconds before the actual accident, so I doubt it would have done anything anyway.
>>
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouDAnO8eMf8
>>
>Pause ATC hiring
>Fire FAA officials
>First crash in US since 2009
Trump did it
>>
>>2032175
underrated
>>
>>2032167
Basically an average retarded boomer facebook post.

This is terrible.
>>
>>2032167
Why are you guys getting mad? Everything he said was correct. 11SM visibility if I remember correctly, it's all on the heli pilot, they even confirmed tally.
>>
>>2032167
>shut down govt
>death stalks the land
This is what happens when you elect an actual mongoloid to high office. How many mutt domestic jet crashes under old Joe eh eh?
>>
Crashing this plane… with no survivors! :D
>>
>>>/sp/146952316
A couple of mourners but the main pedo contingent are still snorting into their greasy sheets.
>>
>>2032192
>trump pauses ATC hiring and firing FAA officials and a plane crash happens in a week
>"it's all his fault!"
>biden shuts down the pipeline and gas prices go up within a week
>"well actually these things are extremely complex and knock-on effects can take years to happen so it's not right to blame him for something he only did days ago you sound like a crazy cultist and"
>>
>>2032202
No it was DEI and the transgenders
>>
>>2032173
inhibited at this altitude anyway
>>
>>2032210
You'd think so. I had a 737 the other day complain he got an RA on climbout at 1500ft because of a C182 holding in pattern.
>>
>>2032215
IIRC RA is inhibited below 1000’ AGL
>>
The real tragedy is all that debris and contamination to the Potomac River
>>
Damn, merimutts going all in on deportations fr.
>>
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>>2032192
>mrw I am forced to fly directly through a passenger airliner directly and visibility in front of me because ATC is understaffed and they didn't explicitly tell me not to.
>>
>>2032220
They've also been doing a ton of training flights over urban areas in preparation for god knows what

https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/1i7r2n1/dallas_helicopters/
>>
>>2032221
There's not really any conspiracy. We're not gonna be fighting in Iraq or Vietnam next. The conflicts that are brewing for the future are more likely gonna be in places like Eastern Europe and South America. More urbanized than Central Asian mountains or "the New York of 4000 BC" may have been.
>>
>>2032148
Whats wrong with the crj
>>
>>2032192
>tfw just passed the atc academy last year and am at an enroute center now
i'm white btw
you wouldn't believe how bad their selection process is for getting people into that building, like half of the people there should have never even bothered applying for this job
>>
>>2032230
It's a filtering process all the way to getting your own papers, so don't worry.
t. Just got my license last year
>>
>>2032176
Even expirienced pilots have to pass certs. Most armies have minimum flight hours for active personel.
>>
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>>2032203
>flying through yew-s-a in current year
Those iceskaters had a lot of loyalty.
>>
>>2032138
Zero American owned or operated flights have killed passengers since 2009, 16 years ago.

But retards will be quick to demand more regulation and FAA bullshit. To be clear this is most certainly a dumbass military helicopter who didn't follow procedures. Military dudes thinking they can get away with bullshit
>>
>>2032246
Just fucking close DCA
There's plenty of better airports in the area and its in an absolute dogshit location.
>>
>>2032246
Honestly this wouldn't have happened if faggot government aircraft weren't obsessed with playing secret squirrel Andew Sorkin my life is a tv show fantasy bullshit and turning all their safety features off.

We invented collision avoidance systems a million years ago, but they don't do anything if you turn them off.
>>
>>2032192
you're a retard if you actually believe trump did this
>>
>>2032254
I can’t believe Trump ordered that helicopter to fly though busy airspace and not pay any attention!
>>
>>2032184
some reports say it's waist level in places
curious there was no survivors
>>
>>2032246
You'll never guess why air travel has been so safe.
>>
>>2032252
Back when I was an instructor there were many times I would see, or ATC would call out to us, flights of heli's all with no ADSB. Seemed like as soon as they leave the mode C veil they happily turn everything off. It's dangerous.
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>>2032260
Does the US not have mandatory transponder requirements in controlled airspace?
>>
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I cursed them to hell, as our bow fought the stall
Our Boeing danced like a moth in the firelight
White horses rode high as the devil passed by
Taking souls to Hades by twilight
>>
>>2032262
'Pop ur Clogs with KLM' we gaan
>>
>>2032261
Simple answer is transponder is required in class B, the largest airports, as well as a 30NM around them. And class C. as well as class A at and above FL180. But basically everywhere else no. The airport I taught out of was within the mode C veil, that 30NM ring, but we would leave the busy airspace to do training elsewhere, which is where the heli's would be without their transponder on.
>>
>>2032265
Oh, do you not use terms like CTR, TMA, CTA in the US?
>>
>>2032246
yeah, it's called "how can we now protect against the retard military so this shit never happens again", you fucking geniousuous
>>
>>2032266
No we don't. we use the class A, B, C etc. system instead.
>>
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>>2032175
hehehehe

F
>>
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The airline has appointed a chief investigator
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>>2032175
:_; rip to everyone in that image
>>
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>>2032271
It's ok the new sec of transport has already investigated everything.
>>
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>https://archived.moe/n/thread/2029666/#q2029810
>https://archived.moe/n/thread/2029666/#q2029817
you were saying?
>>
>>2032276
Aviation today is (was) much safer than it was even 30 years ago, but things like all the ATC induced near misses we've had have only been avoided by things like TCAS and skilled pilots.
The pilots of a CRJ-700 on short final had literally zero ability to dodge a high schooler in a blackhawk going fucking kamikaze on them.
>>
>>2032138
Did they die in the air exploding or did they get crushed in shallow water and died on impact, since the aircraft broke up?
>>
>>2032256
Try jumping from a 300 feet building, see how it goes
>>
>>2032280
so although it has gotten safer you're more likely to get killed doing it now than in the past?
>>
>>2032139
/thread
>>
>>2032162
HNL?
>>
>>2032283
Why not both?
>>
>>2032181
Tonya Harding with MANPAD
>>
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>>2032139
dc is uh, special
>>
fucking DEI helicopter pilots!!!!
>>
>>2032138
>No survivors
>Safest mode of /n/
kys chuds.
>>
>>2032296
this but unironically
>>
>>2032288
KMSN

And fwiw its not my local airport but we take students there all the time
>>
are planes not supposed to do that?
>>
>>2032292
Why did Americans build an airport in that particular location
>>
>>2032305
collision risk wasn't a big problem back when there were 30 flights a day but now it's over 60 an hour not including these random transponderless military flights that pass through the airspace
>>
>>2032192
>>2032230
>>2032235
En route here - did you have Kent as one of your instructors?
>>
>>2032207
>>2032192
Academy is three months, which happens 3-6 months after you get selected. It's another 12-36 months of learning at your center or TRACON before they let you do anything.

We've had a shortage for 15 years now, and half to 2/3 of every class flunks out of the academy. How did they seek to fix this? Hire more blacks and mexicans via a questionnaire that gives hiring preference if you answer 'False' to the question of 'I usually scored highest in my math and science classes'

I'm not even fucking kidding. They replaced the stress and aptitude test with a questionnaire with a score designed to favor dumb minorities. There is a class action lawsuit currently.
>>
>>2032305
Why not? Convenient airports near to the city center are great, especially when they are on reclaimed land. Reagan, Midway, Love and Logan are all unfathomably based. Even PDX, Philly & LaGuardia have to bow down.
>>
>>2032311
It’s egregious what happened in ATC but let’s be very clear that this is basically 100% the fault of that helicopter. There have been plenty of incompetent ATC near-misses that didn’t end in tragedy just by pure dumb luck.
>>
>>2032312
Sry forgot to include San Diego, obviously deserves in the club
>>
>>2032315
Yeah agreed. I'm just saying that everyone who wants to blame lack of ATC is a fucking moron
>>
Why is everyone trying to blame this or that when we don't even know anything yet?
>>
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>>2032323
>>
>>2032256
>curious there was no survivors
That one pic in the thread makes it look like everything above the wing level on the plane got sheared off by the helo rotors. The passengers are ground beef.
>>
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>>2032187
Black Hawk had an ADSB transmitter. Turned on at the time.

Some of the flight tracking sites have both aircrafts paths displayed. Interesting note: The ADSB barometric altitude shows a vertical difference of 200 feet between them. Evidently not.

I went on a pilot's aviation discussion board and asked about differences in altimeter calibration procedures (QNH for civil aviation vs military helo).
>Rage.jpg
>Instruments are God! How dare a mere mortal come in here and question Holy Scripture!
I suspect that something along these lines will figure prominently in the root causes of this accident.
>>
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>>2032329
>>
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>>2032246
Acktuallee, SWA1380 in 2018 had engine bits dome a pax to death. No crash of course. Also, ACKTUALLY there have been zero Passenger 121 """crashes""" since 2009, and only one pax death on SWA1380 between 2009 and 2025. There's a large difference between US owned/operated, and saying Airline, meaning Part 121 flying. Part 135 (charter) guys crash all the time compared to 121 Airlines.
>>
Was the blackhawk operating under VFR rules?
>>
>>2032332
"American" meaning American Airlines and American Eagle, you pedant.
>>
>>2032308
Not to mention Reagan has a noise abatement policy in that they don't operate past a certain time at night(10pm) so people nearby can get some sleep. Which results in a super high rate "cram em all in" rush right before that time for aircraft that exceed the noise limit (basically all of them it's like an 85 decibels noise ceiling).
>>
>>2032333
200ft off the Potomac? yeah, dca is also basically ways vfr as well you just follow the river. The ILS has been out a lot the past year too but it's only for rwy 1.
>>
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>>2032330
>JIA
>>
>>2032329
>>2032330
One was set wrong. Helicopter was probably set to 29.92 and the plane to local barometric
>>
>>2032202
ATC was not, and never is shut down
>>
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>>2032338
>DIA
>>
>>2032332
Also the military is a shitshow and causes all sorts of issues (like this)
>>
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>>2032341
>One was set wrong.
Yeah.
>Helicopter was probably set to 29.92 and the plane to local barometric
Or the other way around. Planes operate on a 'standard' QNH so they all agree on altitude for TCAS and whatnot. They don't care about local because they have glideslope. Helos are really concerned with local, true altitude. Because they operate down where they are likely going to run into stuff (pic related).

Either way, somebody was off. If TCAS TA lies to you about other aircraft's altitude, you could be looking up instead of straight ahead for the conflict (with NV goggles, not good).
>>
All the news reports say "jet collided with helicopter". I think it's the other way around; the helo flew into the jet. The jet was right where it was supposed to be. Some Sierra-Hotel WO3 yankin' and bankin' down the Potomac fucked up. They were wearing NVGs, which really suck at seeing anything other than whatever is 50° hotter than anything around it. And depth perception goes all to shit, too.
>>
>>2032334
Don't be a queer, American obviously meant 'by a US carrier' otherwise 2009 wouldn't have been mentioned, as Colgan was under the Continental banner. The last fatality on AA/Eagle/etc was in 2004.
>>
>>2032355
it's actually "DEI hire mistakes bright light for sun, runs into it while dilating" you fucking bigoted faggot
>>
>>2032353
I'm only familiar with European rules but it makes no sense to run standard altimeter settings below flight levels. That's kinda the whole point of the transition altitude.
>>
>TRUMP FIRED ALL THE ATC DEI HIRES IT'S HIS FAULT
This tragedy could have been avoided.
ATC: AYO niggahawk peep dat CRJ? Holla back
ATC: Holla back yo! Da fuck?
Black Hawk: WE GAAN
...
ATC: I know yo bitch ass hearin a nigga
>>
>>2032353
That makes zero sense. The CRJ would absolutely put in the local altimeter. Transition altitude is 18,000 ft. ATC would be barking at them well before to check their altimeter.
>>
>>2032359
>>2032364
That's not what they are claiming on a pilots bulletin board. 'Standard altimeter' is what they claim to use. Although the old farts on that board probably haven't flown since WWII.

But that raises some interesting questions by itself. 'Somebody' doesn't know what to use. Whoever that might be.
>>
Can a non-/pol/ retard explain if NVG could actually have been a factor in this crash
>>
>>2032368
Absolutely. It reduces peripheral vision and depth perception.
>>
>>2032254
Like all of his stupid plans, it just throws gas on the fire.

Did it immediately cause it? No.
Does it greatly increase the chance of it happening again in the future? Yes.

All of you assholes are focused on attacking or defending politicians like they're your child. You should be focused on the outcomes and how to prevent/fix whatever problem we have instead of trying to play defender for your "team".
>>
>>2032370
calm down
>>
So is this kind of like in Dune how "the slow blade penetrates the shield? Like the airplane couldn't pick up the helicopter on its radar because it was moving so slowly that it didn't register?
>>
>>2032323
Politics. Plus the guy in charge is trying to exacerbate the situation, so people are worried that his policies will contribute to future air disasters (among other things).
>>
>>2032371
No. The rage keeps me warm.
>>
>>2032374
fat back!
>>
>>2032372
No, civilian passenger aircraft don't have radar for detecting other aircraft only weather and radar altimeters, even if they did helicopters are doppler shift disco balls because of the rotors.
>>
>>2032372
Civilian aircraft don’t have that type of radar.
And neither do most civilian airports
>>
>>2032373
Wasn't this the fault of remnant Biden policy though, the new interim guy has 20 years at the FAA no?
>>
>>2032138
Race and gender of ATC and pilots involved?
>>
>>2032370
>You should be focused on the outcomes and how to prevent/fix whatever problem we have
The "problem we have" is unqualified people doing critical jobs, and doing them wrong.
>>
>>2032256
>curious there was no survivors

Hitting the ground at that speed and you'd be smashed to atoms regardless of whether it was water or concrete you hit.
>>
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>>2032296
>DEI
>DIE
>>
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>>2032380
That doesn't appear to be the case at all.

>>2032378
Probably. Again, I'm more focused about fixing the problem. Hiring flight controllers seems to be the solution.
>>
>heli flying nearly twice the maximum altitude for the published route through the airspace
>drifts off course
>last minute runway change for the CRJ
>NVGs on training flights in a major metro right in front of passenger flight landing approaches

The cheese drills itself. No amount of ATC in the tower could have helped a system setup for failure and this level of operational complacency
>>
>>2032394
Someone really needs to be the FAA's fault because the military can do no wrong while the federal civil service absolutely must be filled with incompetents.
>>
>>2032387
see>>2032220
>>
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>plane is coming in for landing
>everybody on board would have had their tray table up and their seat back in the full upright position
>it crashes
>everyone dies
>>
>>2032399
the cabin lights were probably dark, so at least they didn't have to see other passengers getting bisected and chopped up or spending the few seconds watching the blades come at you
>>
I've heard it suggested that when the helicopter requested visual separation from nearby traffic, that he had the wrong plane in sight.
>>
>>2032401
Almost certainly the case
>>
>>2032399
That only works if the destination is Albuquerque where the air smells like warm root beer and the towels are oh so fluffy.
>>
>>2032399
I hope it was quick at least. They should have....skated out of there
>>
>>2032252
Honestly I suspect this was a "stealth training" mission where the military just gave themselves the carte blanche on playing sneekie snek around an active civilian airport. Fly low, maintain approach, and see how confident you can be while playing monitoring coms to make yourself the ATC for the quarter mile of airspace in front of one of America's busiest airports. I also suspect they do this regularly.
>>
>>2032417
They were flying a designated helicopter route
>>
>>2032418
Why does the chopper route cross in front of the final for that runway at that altitude?
I'm guessing that, once all the grandstanding clears, helicopters will probably fly that route like a half mile up range, as long as DCA has that runway open.
>>
crash was deliberate to make Mr DJ Trump look bad
>>
>>2032421
like he needs a crash to do that, even if it was his fault
>>
>>2032420
There is no chopper "route". The river is a VFR corridor and the helicopter was flying VFR, possibly NVG. The helicopter was cleared to cross/join behind the traffic on final. The helicopter acknowledged it had the traffic in sight.
The most likely answer here is that NVG reduced situational awareness and possibly depth perception, so they were crossing the final with the wrong traffic in sight.
>>
>>2032380
>assign one guy the workload of five people because you don't want to pay 5 salaries
>something goes wrong
>clearly the problem was that we picked the wrong guy, not that we're chronically understaffed.
>>
>>2032406
Reportedly someone jumped into the river and stole all the glow in the dark snorkels before the passengers used them. Probably a big fat hermaphrodite.
>>
>>2032372
>dunc fan
>also absolute retard
wow that never happens
>>
>>2032310
No I had Rich, Art, and Will
>>
This crash may or may have not been caused by DEI, but there have been a major plane crash that was definetly caused by DEI: Atlas Air Flight 3591
>Plane on approach with low visibility
>retarded minority is controlling
>is in a critical situation
>decide to push random buttons, like the Go-Around button, and claim there is a stall.
>there were no indication the plane stalled
>the plane nose-dives and crash
>it has been revealed that the same retard who piloted the plane was refused in many other airlines due to his poor performance to the point of him almost taking legal action because he thought those airlines were racist. For some reason, Atlas Air decided to hire him.
Anyone thinking that DEI isnt a problem in aviation is retarded. This crash is literal proof. This crash needs to be brought up more, especially now
source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsSNr5DR840&pp=ygUVYXRsYXMgYWlyIGZsaWdodCAzNTkx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlzpLQga6ws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEWXYizNKf0
Note: The black guy FO was the pilot who crashed the plane
>>
>>2032435
>This crash may or may have not been caused by DEI
The new one wasn't by any stretch of the imagination, though I'm not exactly seeing how this one counts either, even if there was an incompetent nig at the controls in this instance. He was a shitty """pilot""" and Atlas Air didn't do the proper checks on his safety record; that's how he got hired, not because he was black and they had to meet some quota, which just sounds like made up /pol/faggotry.
>almost taking legal action because he thought those airlines were racist. For some reason, Atlas Air decided to hire him.
Your sources don't mention that bit. If that was true, then yeah, le DEI is majorly at fault, but this just seems like a rumor.
>>
>>2028520
>>2028507
>>
>I may have killed 70 people in the worst airline disaster in modern US history by terrorizing federal employees into a stupor in order to contract out all federal powers to an "X corporation", but a black pilot crashed once so it's fine
remember when shame was a thing?
>>
>>2032438
Privatizing ATC is a no brainier and would probably make the skies safer. The main reason fr the shortage is the FAA imposes asinine medical requirements for controllers and pay is dogshit.

Canada privatizes their ATC and it's better. They actually make more than US controllers.
>>
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Saw a pilot in youtube comments yesterday noping out. Won't fly as a domestic passenger no more.
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>>2032441
just one accident in like 15 years is surely a fluke right?
>>
>>2032440
You don't think ICAO and EASA also impose strict medical requirements for ATC? Afaik Canada follows ICAO
>>
Ronald Jay Grumpfff: (staring maniacally as he begins to babble disjointedly for 30 minutes) My fellow Americans our shared airspace is fucking bullshit Obama/Biden/faggots will kill your kids using our horrible DEI infested ATC system, I'm telling you the tower trannies/groids/spics directly caused this horrible crash and there will be many more, cold dark water, its common sense'.

Why the fuck are airline stocks still stable?
>>
>>2032442
I just report on youtube comments on 4chan, I don't know m8
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>>2032441
I saw a "retired ATC" talk complete bullshit in YouTube comment sections, clearly having no clue how ATS works in any way. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Well, except this post
>>
>>2032443
My understanding is that ICAO is less strict than America for controller medical certification. Notably for Marijuana usage. Last time I checked using Marijuana at all within the past 5 years is totally disqualifying for any ATC positions regardless of state laws.

A lot of federal agencies have hiring trouble due to Marijuana prohibition.
>>
>>2032447
But privatization won't change what the laws are. If that's what's required federally for ATC, then a private ATS provider still needs to follow that.
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>>2032420
>at that altitude?
That's the thing, from what we can tell the helo may have been above the 200ft limit.
>>2032424
>There is no chopper "route".
Anon I offer you a crossroads: the one where you responds "oh shit, my bad" and everyone recognizes you made an honest mistake, or the path where you double down and drag the whole thread down arguing that these helicopter routes don't count as helicopter routes.
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maybe if it was a whitehawk this wouldn't have happened
have you considered that?
>>
What's all this talk abut a 15 year streak? Didn't someone just get sucked out of an airplane window mid flight within the past few years?
>>
>>2032452
They're talking about full on crashes
>>
>>2032450
Yeah my bad I didn't realize it was a published route. I thought it was a regular VFR corridor.
I will point out regarding the altitude though: it doesn't matter if they were 200ft or 300ft. You don't cross that close to the final without a clearance. However, in this case, according to the ATC recordings, they had a clearance to cross behind the arriving traffic.
The most likely cause here is that various factors (competency, complacency, stress, fatigue, night vision mission, additional traffic departing and additional traffic on final) caused the helicopter pilot to misunderstand which aircraft they were supposed to cross behind.
>>
>>2032449
>But privatization won't change what the laws are.
Yes they will.
>>
>>2032455
>You don't cross that close to the final without a clearance
I think that given the traffic congestion in the area, the whole point of the route is to deconflict the helicopter traffic and planes coming into DCA. It's extremely narrow margins though, and I'd disagree with your statement of:
>it doesn't matter if they were 200ft or 300ft
With just how tight these routes are built to the approach paths, that 100ft is a huge deal.
>>
>>2032457
Yeah but nothing will ever be separated by only 100ft even with procedures. I guarantee you there is no automatic crossing approval under final RWY33 at 200ft or lower. Even with the most precise procedures we have today (RNP AR), no one would accept such low margins for separation without manual intervention (crossing clearance and traffic info).
>>
>there was too much DEI so we had to crash the planes in order to improve safety
this is some real mental gymnastics olympics
>>
>>2032450
It's looking less like it's ATC's fault and more like a chain of poor decisions that went into creating that airspace and the govt taking unnecessary risk.
Risk: crashing an airliner
Reward: in a doomsday scenario, at night, with routine commercial aviation still going on, the helicopter that picks up whoever is next in line for an executive position arrives slightly faster.

>>2032452
No, the door blowing off the Boeing didn't kill anyone, miraculously.
>>
Trump is a retard for immediately blaming DEI.

But based on the currently available information, anyone who blames Trump is an even bigger retard.
>>
>>2032460
ATC recording makes it immediately obvious this is not an issue with ATC.
Could they have done more? In theory yes, but all rules were more than followed and done by the book.
>>
>>2032425
They wouldn't be chronically understaffed if they weren't turning away every White applicant.
>>
I blame Trump for shamelessly using tragedies as fuel for his pet-peeves policies
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>>2032464
I'm sure you've also blamed every other politician who didn't let a perfectly good tragedy go to waste and it's not just your excuse to hate on Trump some more...
>>
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>>2032465
are you just hoping people will magically not make the connection between the official plan to torment federal employees into ragequitting, and low job performance?
>>
>>2032455
>Yeah my bad I didn't realize it was a published route. I thought it was a regular VFR corridor.
How does a helicopter route differ from a VFR corridor/flyway, specifically as it relates to ATC clearance?
>>
>>2032455
>I will point out regarding the altitude though: it doesn't matter if they were 200ft or 300ft.
But maintaining a 200 ft ceiling would have been the difference between a crash and the helo pilot needing a fresh change of shorts. That's just one factor.

It's going to boil down to several things. A crappy set of "night VFR" regs (we really don't have a separate category for that). Allowing VFR routes this close to approach/departure paths. And allowing the military their own secial snowflake operations among civilian traffic.
>>
>>2032470
100% agree on the VFR night regulations needing to come. I work ATC in Europe, and while most European countries don't allow VFR night at all, my country does. According to our procedures the way ATC handled it would be completely acceptable, but unless it was a helicopter that regularly operates around my field, I know me and all my coworkers would hold them somewhere safe and not approved a crossing before it was clear.
>>
>>2032461
There has been a class action against the FAA for hiring subpar traffic controllers for the past 3 years. Denying the best candidates because of their skin color. Trump wasn’t wrong to bring it up.
>>
>>2032472
Which would be relevant if the ATC are the one who fucked up. By all accounts, they did everything they were supposed to and could, the helicopter was just incompetent and/or made a mistake.
>>
>>2032473
It's not relevant in this case but it will fortunately be highlighted regardless.
Ronald Raegan airport has 19 ATC working there. That is absurdly low considering the traffic they have. If other towers are similarly staffed then a large incident resulting from ATC fatigue is long overdue.
>>
>>2032464
I blame you for being as much of a faggot as he is, making shit political that doesn't need to be political. We gonna start blaming political parties for car crashes now? My Mitsubishi got fucked up at an intersection... Thanks Obama!
>>
>>2032428
I guess it's time to take out his spleen before he gives someone a colonic irrigation.
>>
>>2032473
ATC shares some responsibility almost certainly. If a pilot says he sees traffic but is taking no action to avoid that traffic you gotta step in. either order the CRJ to go around or give the helicopter an immediate vector for collision avoidance. Those actions are not particularly uncommon in busy airspace with a bunch of different aircraft performance profiles sharing the same area. It didn’t happen in this case.

The helicopter pilots can take the vast majority of the blame and the above can be true at the same time. This should have been a near miss not a disaster.
>>
>>2032477
>atc responsible for pilot incompetence
oh shit you're one of those retard fuckers that want everything to be true when both cases can't. fuck you DEI faggots
>>
in the face of mountains of evidence that this was caused by recent executive actions (that happen to have been made by whites), retards will continue to scream about how the blacks caused this. it really is a cult
>>
>>2032480
When you deliberately hire or promote the worst candidate because they pass some diversity metric, it exhausts the performance of everyone else, making them worse at their jobs too. People have to double check work, refuse to critique performance of others, or they find work elsewhere.
There is no reason merit shouldn't be only criteria for ATC.
>>
>>2032477
You are completely clueless. You don't give vectors to VFR at 200ft. You don't instigate a goaround when the conflict is resolved from ATC side (traffic clearly pointed out and confirmed TWICE to be in sight). Also, I'm not sure how it is in this airport, but towers in the US are generally not equipped with radar. You separate visually, which is what they did. ATC is a service and you can not ATC your way out of stupid pilots. Unless you completely remove VFR and visual approaches all together, this will never happen. Which they won't.
>>
>>2032483
yeah performance was totally because a black guy got hired last year and not because one controller was doing a two-person job because of DOGE
>>
>>2032486
ATC staffing has been an ongoing problem for the FAA
>>
>>2032480
They are retarded but ATC has been having problems for a long time. There have been many close calls in recent years
>>
So it finally comes out that the pilot flying in the helicopter was a woman DEI hire.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huVFZ__q2rI

it almost happened the day before on a 19 final
lol, lmao even
>>
>>2032496
Regan Tower clearly has tuned out CA alarms. There were three of the fucking things in that clip, and they didn't seem to give a single fuck. Even Approach didn't seem that concerned for Brickyards go around due to their TCAS warning.
Remind me never to book a flight to Regan Intl. Their control is inherently unsafe.
>>
>>2032503
CA alarms in US towers are basically background noises
>>
>>2032486
ATC shortage is due to them hiring 60% minority, and then not realizing for years it tanked the graduation rate at the ATC academy

Maybe now giving hiring points to people who say they have been unemployed for 2+ years, and that they got their lowest grades in Science and Math had an effect on the ability of those you hired to pass tests based around being able to do math in their head and manage complex situations
>>
>>2032486
>hired a ton of blacks
>none of them shake out
>white guy is now overworked
ITS NOT THE FAULT OF THE BLACKS!
>>
>>2032509
that's not how it works retard, they don't have the funding. Meanwhile there are numerous barriers to even begin training someone to do ATC.
>>
>>2032385
You have a better chance with water.

Yes it's not great, but it's better than concrete.

If there had been 30-40 feet of water there would've been more time/space for the plane to lose energy instead of dumping it directly into the passengers when it slammed into the riverbed.
>>
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Pilot was female.
>but won't be named
https://archive.is/BjGzz
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>union bust and ban ATC rabble rousers for life to send a message
>have trouble hiring more ATC
>get an airport named after you
>plane crash due to ATC at your airport
pottery
>>
>>2032518
>PATCO endorsed Reagan in 80
Interdasting
>Busting a union 40 years ago led to an incident today
Tenuous cope
>>
>>2032517
Watch it be a tranny
>>
>>2032517
>500 hours
>female
that flight was doomed. I'm a check pilot for fedex and I don't hate women or anything, but, I have to say there is for sure a lot more bad female pilots than bad male ones. Also 500 hours is a funny range where the pilot has just enough knowledge to feel confident but not enough to really be an experience pilot, it's a dangerous range.
>>
01/18/2025 - 13 days ago

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/map/PAT25/history/20250118/2245Z/KDAA/KDAA

Only other previous tracked flight I've seen. The flight path is their routine training route which follows the Potomac. It never goes under 300ft but comments all over the internet say 200 is the ceiling over the Potomac.


It's also routinely flies over 811 Lawton Street, the residence owned by the Saudi Embassy that people think the doomed flight started from, but flights don't start 1000ft in the air the rapidly descend right next to the water:
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ae313d,a97753&lat=38.930&lon=-77.177&zoom=12.8&showTrace=2025-01-30&trackLabels
>>
>>2032138
Why is this such headline news, desu? A Korean plane explodes every other week and gets less coverage than a puddle jumper with a double digit passenger count?
>>
>>2032529
the jeju thread hit bump limit in like 5 days, tourist. now go back to /pol/
>>
correction, it was 3 days
>>
>>2032529
biggest airline crash in the us since 2009 as well as the retardedly politicized speculation around it
>>
>>2032529
>1960s-tier mid-air collision in the middle of DC
>1st airliner crash in the US in over 10 years
even without Trump sperging about it non-stop it would have made headline news
>>
>>2032544
it would have made headline news for a couple of weeks at least*
>>
glad i quit my job that was 50% travel.
i know it's rare but fuck me i hated flying anyways
>>
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>>2032532
>stop hiring based on merit
>give extra points to applicants who think science class was hard
>but it's retarded to wonder if hiring on something other than skill could ever lead to an accident
>>
>>2032517
How is a family member allowed to request the army to withhold the pilot's name? You don't see family members of drunk drivers being able to request the police to withhold drivers' names.
>>
>>2032172
Underrated
>>
>>2032589
Couldn't someone just FOIA the name? How do you submit that request?
>>
>>2032588
An important detail to remember is that this isn't an issue with ATC skill. Those who get "hired" through DEI programs still need to pass the rigorous training.
It's just that the selection process is less about merit, so fewer people pass.
>>
Did you guys know that Canada fined the owner of Jet Rescue Air Ambulance, $66,000 on January 20, 2025

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/enforcement-action/med-jets-sa-cv-carrying-business-jet-rescue-air-ambulance
>>
>>2032594
https://x.com/Jetrescue/status/1622573396671201280

https://www.jet-rescue.com/
>>
>>2032593
Are you sure about that? I don't work in aviation, but at my job, if recruiters were to reject a "diverse" candidate, they are obligated to give then an extra chance first, (one that is not afforded to "non-diverse" candidates), and then if the candidate continues to fail, the recruiter must write in a forum and defend why they are rejecting the candiate (once again, something they don't have to do for "non-diverse" candidates)
>>
>>2032597
I can't be 100% sure as I work aviation in Europe, but it's a high skill job and getting your papers is very, very difficult. Out of the 680 applicants that qualified the first round of tests, only 16 of us actually reached certification. Even when filtered down to 20 who started working in actual ATC units on the job training, 4 of them got kicked out for not learning fast enough.
>>
>>2032463
If you're only hiring for one position it makes no difference to the numbers whether you hire the first guy who turns up, or reject 10,000 people before settling on someone. You're still only hiring one guy.
>>
>>2032601
I reflected on this a bit more and with the working conditions ATC in the US face (60 hour weeks, few breaks), it's easy to imagine scenarios where they will lower the standard of certification for the sake of better working conditions.
If you could have more free time, more time for your family, more breaks, more predictability. And all you had to do was say yes to someone who is "fine". Would you do it? I think many would.
>>
what happened to the philly crash thread?
>>
>>2032620
too much wrongthink
>>
So if another one goes down the shitcoin distributor in chief is ogre right?
>>
where will todays plane crash be? im thinking midwest
>>
IF IT'S GOING TO THE USA TO BOARD YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE CRAY
Good luck with international traffic faggots we're out.
>>
>>2032519
It's trickledown economics.
>>
>>2032523
If this is true it's a pretty big fuckup on the part of the Army.

Could it be a limitation of the flightaware program miscalculating altitude? 200MSL is the ceiling for that part of the route. I assume the Potomac is at see level. See.>>2032450
>>
>>2032523
Would ATC be able to tell the altitude of the helicopter? Why wouldn't they yell at the pilot for going above the 200MSL ceiling?
>>
>>2032620
Wasn't going the right way, so they had to pull it
>>
>>2032329
Isn't ADSB shit at estimating altitude?
>>
>>2032353
>>2032366
>>2032364
In this instance it would not have mattered what the CRJ's altimeter setting was.. They were visually flying the approach using the PAPI glide slope indicator. even if their altimeter was completely wrong, the PAPI would still keep them within glide path. I've flown the exact same airplane that crashed just 2 weeks ago.
>>
>>2032685
>Isn't ADSB shit at estimating altitude?
ADSB is exactly as good at "estimating" altitude as the aircraft's primary air data instruments (altimeter). All it is is a transmitter that sends the aircraft's instrument data to anyone listening. Like ATC or half a dozen web sites.
>>2032673
>Would ATC be able to tell the altitude of the helicopter?
Only to the extent that the helos altimeter was displaying the correct altitude.

>Why wouldn't they yell at the pilot for going above the 200MSL ceiling?
Because the altimeter said 200. So the pilots thought they were at 200. And ADSB sent out 200 and ATC (and the we sites) said 200. Somebody done fucked up setting the altimeter calibration.
>>
>>2032364
>The CRJ would absolutely put in the local altimeter.
I've got to agree with you here. The more I talk to some of the helo pilots on other boards, the bigger a bunch of hot-dogs I think they are. F*k instruments, f*k procedures. We're gonna buzz the rice patties with the door gunners, just like in Full Metal Jacket.
>>
>>2032689
It doesn't really matter what their altimeter setting was except that it was probably correct. This only matters because it means their reported altitude(mode c) is more probably correct.
>>
>>2032693
yes it was correct, its on our checklist to set local altimeter that we have to do when descending below FL180.
>>
>>2032694
I have no doubt that a scheduled flight would be using the correct altimeter. I even think the army flight also probably had the correct altimeter. I'm thinking it was probably a software glitch on whatever site someone here used to get the radar data.
>>
>>2032196
>Why are you guys getting mad?
Why is he tweeting instead asking the FAA and NTSB what's going on? He has the resources, he's just a gigantic retard.
>>
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>>2032689
the PAPI lmao
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>>2032593
>"hired" through DEI programs
what controller programs are DEI?
>>
>>2032435
Fax
Reminder that DEI policies started around the time of the Atlas Air crash
>>
>>2032695
>I'm thinking it was probably a software glitch on whatever site someone here used to get the radar data.
Multiple ADSB sites.
Except that now the NTSB is saying PAT25 was above its ceiling of 200 feet. Which supports the idea that the helo wasn't actually at the 200 feet it was supposed to be at. The pilot was seeing the same (wrong) data that ADSB sent/received.
>>
They just released the name of the third officer in the helicopter and people still are at it with dei even though it was a qualified white woman. Yesterday they were saying it a was troon(I agree they shouldn't be in the military) and after he literally announced it wasn't him people still commented as if it was.
Today you go to the news of the chick that actually died and you'll see thousands of deranged comments blaming and criticizing her despite not having any facts whatsoever if she was the one in charge of the aircraft, and it's really mean spirited.

I joked a lot with dei and boeing before, and I believe the best people for the job rather than nig and minority quotas but the noise surrounding this accident is borderline collective insanity.
>>
Are all these conspiracy posts popping up everywhere Russian/Chinese bots or are they real people who are truly delusional?
>>
>>2032711
I think you underestimate boomers and internet access, retired people with nothing but free time and unable to understand memes, bait, troll posting and general internet lore tend to believe in the most asinine things and they lack the filter and common sense to refrain from posting what is going through their minds. For example if you go to daily mail you'll see the perfect example of this and it's always people reminiscing about the 80s when everything was great and nothing bad ever happened. Then you have younger people that grew up on internet and are generally dissatisfied with how things currently are so they cling to anything hopping for a big change to come, add to that legit schizos, bots, engagement farms and intel agencies trying to steer the narrative in a certain way.
>>
>>2032710
if she was a troon, i'm so pro-tranny now, since her face and hip width are things no tranny could possibly achieve
no wonder the family didn't immediately want her name released when that was gonna be the reaction from all the tards
>>
>>2032713
The one that actually was in the accident is 100% a biological woman, the troon talk was fake news about a completely different person that had nothing to do with this.
>>
>>2032710
Culture trickles down from the most visible elites and if the president's first response to this is politcking and finger pointing with a complete disregard to facts I don't think you can expect much better from his constituents.
>>
>>2032711
>>2032712
>>
>>2032715
>the troon talk
It was damage control after they figured out that everyone involved was white.
>>
>>2032679
So what's the conclusion on that one? Mexico isn't sending their best?
>>
The collision was a textbook example of a complex cause.
The helicopter's route was called Route 4, which
was set up along the Potomac River to prevent VIP aircraft traveling between Washington and military bases from crashing into civilian facilities.
Route 4 is restricted to a safe altitude of 200 feet or less according to the charts.
The helicopter, which was undergoing training, either had a malfunction or made a mistake. It approached the restricted airspace at an altitude of 400 feet using night vision goggles and VFR. Route
4 also deviated toward the airport, and ATC requested visual confirmation.
The controller mistook the CRJ700 for another aircraft, and in an unscheduled solo operation, did not monitor the helicopter's altitude or issue a warning, as he normally does.
The CRJ700's TCAS is designed not to sound an audio warning at altitudes below 700 feet near an airport.
>>
>>2032715
there is now zero doubt in my mind that all far right retards have some kind of ladyboy fetish
>>
>>2032138
is that really the best footage of it?
>>
>>2032735
A correction for you here. The controller did not point out the wrong traffic to the helicopter. As the helicopter turned away from the departure end of RWY33, ATC pointed out inbound traffic at 1200ft setting up for final RWY33 currently south of some bridge I don't remember the name of. Helicopter confirmed the traffic in sight.
As the collision alert sounded, ATC once again confirmed with the helicopter if they had the traffic in sight, which they did.
So it was the helicopter who mistook which traffic to look out for, not ATC.
>>
Why didn't the ATC tell the plane to abort the landing and go around the moment they (the ATC) gets the collision warning, instead of asking the helicopter if they have visual of the plane and asking them to go to the rear? Why trust the helicopter at this point? The best case scenario is a near miss. They placed a false trust and overreliance of the heli to get it right when they should have discounted the heli's judgement to get it right and extracted the plane from the collision course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3gD_lnBNu0
>>
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>>2032735
I don't see how it's complex at all. The air traffic controller took a risk by allowing the landing to proceed despite the crossed paths, and by giving permission for the helicopter to negotiate the plane by visual sighting. Ordinarily you would say the chopper shouldn't be there, but it has the priority flight designation (it could on a mission of national importance to collect Trump's Mcdonald's order or something), so the plane's landing is the flight that should have been aborted and ordered to go around until the heli had cleared the area. The best case scenario was always a near miss of 100 feet or so by visual negotiation of the heli (at night): far too close and too risky a margin. The plane should have been ordered to go around.
>>
>>2032750
>>2032749
Presumably (I'm speculating here), that's simply a system that is in place at DCA. They built the helicopter route and glide path to not intersect, so trust each side to stick to their altitude restrictions. This controller isn't just managing these two aircraft, he's also in charge of sequencing the takeoffs and landings. Once the helicopter accepts visual separation, the responsibility is his
>>
>umm please don't crash into plane okay sweetie
How is this acceptable direction from the ATC. Order the plane (and the chopper) to make radical evasive action. It should have been obvious at this stage the helicopter was either being cavalier, or (easier to appreciate in hindsight) had not sighted the plane, and was about to collide, or, at best, near miss.
>>
>>2032754
Not intersecting by 100 ft is the system? Come on. That's not a genuine safety system; that's rolling the dice: the best case scenario is a near miss (that sets off the plane's alarms to force a late go around anyway). The ATC has the ultimate duty to cancel the plane's landing permission, to not allow the heli to negotiate the plane by visual sight, and to order both aircraft to radically abandon their routes to avoid eachother, not give them permission to coast within 100 ft and pray.
>>
>>2032754
>the responsibility is his
The ATC grants the helicopter the permission to negotiate by visual separation. The ATC grants the plane permission to land. The ATC can order all aircraft to take any action he deems neccessary. The ATC is the one with the duty to say no to the heli and no to the plane so they don't get within 100ft of eachother (in the best case scenario), or rather 0ft as it turned out. Asking the heli not to crash into the plane ("pass behind") whilst you grant permission for each to be within 100ft of eachother is a nothing command that abdicated his responsibility, and is the proximate cause of the collision: it was the last chance for the ATC to direct both craft to take radical evasive action.
>>
>>2032756
>>2032757
>>2032758
>t. doesn't fly
>>
>>2032759
Throttle down ace. Flyboy retards are crashing choppers into planes, the affair is outside the hands of the cosmic ray damaged and oxygen deprived brained now. Very stupid to say that a 100ft margin is good and valid practice, or that the ATC palms off all responsibility to the heli, and washes his hands of the affair from that point.
>>
>>2032761
Thanks for confirming you don't know what you're talking about. Don't you need to complain about cars, housing stock, or whatever bullshit you new wave communists cry about?
>>
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is this a normal occurence?
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>>2032766
yes, especially when its south flow (runway 19). Almost every single time you do that approach you'll get a warning from ATC about a low flying helicopter who will be passing below
>>
>>2032736
That's the mainstream right, alt right is based and mostly concerned with the j question.
>>
>>2032756
>>umm please don't crash into plane okay sweetie
ATC isn't flying the plane, it's the pilots. If you have a shit pilot or an altimeter issue there's not much you can do in that situation.
>to make radical evasive action.
The CRJ was in a low energy state on final approach so this wouldn't have been possible and would have likely put the plane at risk of a stall.
>>
>>2032757
>>2032758
You don't really seem to understand how VFR works, so you should stop trying to give your opinions on it.
No, ATC did not clear the helicopter to separate themselves 100ft under the traffic. They were told to separate visually and to join BEHIND (not under). This is as far as ATC responsibility goes in this class of airspace with VFR/IFR conflicts. If one plane decides to steer right into another, that's on them.

It's the same as driving on a road. You don't have massive steel and concrete walls that separate every single road from each other, even when driving at speeds where a crash is fatal. That's because you expect every driver to respect the bare mimum of not crashing into each other. VFR and GA are things that exist and things that will keep existing.

The likely factors for this incident will be the type of training mission the helicopter was on, for example where they NVG? That should not be allowed near a busy airport. Being there in general should.
>>
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So it looks like the helicopter turned off all the safeties because it was conducting a high risk classified maneuver in preparation for a crisis, which just coincidentally had to be conducted after installing a bunch of people hand picked for their willingness to execute "the second american revolution"
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>>2032779
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>>2032779
>>2032781
It’s all bs. Those helicopters fly up and down the river every single day doing training. It’s not some crazy combat scenario. It’s literally just flying from one point to the other. The president’s Marine One does it all the time too; the exact same route. The army helicopters transport the Secretary of Defense. If he’s at the pentagon, and needs to go to Anacostia, he takes a helicopter.
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>jet pilots made a pitch up attempt seconds before collision
Holy shit bros, they saw the helicopter coming
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>>2032782
>Those helicopters fly up and down the river every single day doing training.
Perhaps they shouldn't be.
>Marine One
>Secretary of Defense
What are the ratings/qualifications of those pilots? Compared to the pilot of PAT25? (Now that we know who it was) How many hours of flight time? Quite a bit higher, I'd guess.
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>>2032819
>Perhaps they shouldn't be.
They have to.
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>>2032819
You underestimate the amount of VIPs who take military helicopter transport across the river.
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>>2032712
>engagement farms and intel agencies trying to steer the narrative
On trollchan? HAHAHAHA!! you stupid fucks think 4chan legitimately has any value to whatever alphabet agency in the world you think is interested in active measures and deflection?? holy jeez you dellusional idiot. No one cares about this place. At all. It's a tiny echo chamber on the internet. Don't give it artificial value where there is none. All the "bad actors" you think are on here are just kids, trolls, and schizo's. Nothing more. SVR don't care about this place. CIA doesn't care about this place. CSIS, DGES, MI6, Mossad, etc. None of them care about this teenage kindergarten site. Get real.
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>>2032839
I'm not sure if you're joking or just stuck in a time warp from like 2010 4chan, nta just surprised at the level of dumb you just expressed
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>>2032597
FAA ATC Academy is did you or did you not meet the 70% total point requirement? That is the only criteria.
There are no do-overs.
You can file a Technical Review and they will double check that all the point you lost on your scenarios are correct and it wasn't a teacher telling you wrong but that's pretty much it for appeals.

They go back and forth on this but, sometimes they will allow you back to go try Tower track if you failed En Route or En Route after you failed tower.

>t. Failed out last year because 'tism nerves got the better of me.
>nearly barfed on the simulator.


In my class, though, there definitely were a couple of people who never should have gone there in the first place.
One of them couldn't memorize his phraseology to save his life and annother was just quiet and never studied with anybody else and pretty much the whole class called it when he washed.
If anybody from my class is here by cosmic coincidence I mean BW, ED, CL, and maybe MM too. KJ should't have been there either because he's a fat sack of shit and just a general turd of a person. I hope his ass enjoys whatever shit hole facility he got stuck with.
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>>2032670
Definitely could just be flightaware, doesn't make sense to me why it wouldn't calculate under 300 but I have no clue how it works desu.
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>>2032782
>>2032819
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14346201/Doomed-Black-Hawk-chopper-rehearsing-Trumps-evacuation-nuclear-bunker-slammed-American-Airlines-jet-online-sleuths-claim-wild-conspiracy-theories-emerge.html

Trump was fuckin PISSED a female with only 500 hours was tasked to fly the pres. Said DEI immediately after, he's not wrong. She was a Biden hoe
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back in my day people who read daily mail were stigmatized
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>>2032775
The ATC should have cancelled the landing and ordered the CRJ to go-around and increase altitute to create a greater than 100ft clearance between the two aircraft. The ATC is conductor, he tells the instruments how they are to be played, regardless of the violinist being the proximate cause of the music.

>>2032777
>how it works
It didn't work, did it? The ATC's systems failed. They failed because they regarded a 100ft clearance as an adequate safety measure and allowed the aircraft to cross paths with a 100ft altitude difference. The ATC could see that the heli was operating with (at best) a cavalier approach to navigating the plane and should have revoked his permission for the heli to navigate the plane by visual separation. It's not enough to say: "the heli told me he would separate visually" when the ATC can see the revealed actions of the heli's flight track show he is on track for a crossed path with, at ideal best, a 100ft separation. What the heli is communicating must be ignored by the ATC when it does not correspond with the actual actions the helicopter is taking. The ATC placed on over reliance on the words of the helicopter instead of what the helicopter had revealed by its actions: that is was tracking into a crossed path with, at best, a 100ft clearance.

It's very stupid to say: "the heli shouldn't have crashed into the plane, therefore there's nothing the traffic controller could do." The traffic controller is there to conduct the aircraft in a way that navigational mistakes do not result in catastrophic failings because the ATC has allowed room for error so as to not result in a mid-air collision.

It's just a fact that the helicopter had priority air designation (PAT); there is a legitimate need for helicopters to fly governmental VIPs around the capital. It was up to the ATC to direct the plane around the heli by cancelling the landing permission and ordering a go-around until the helicopter had cleared the landing approach.
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>>2032763
You're defending abyssmal incompetance and massacre by completely avoidable mid-air collisions. Pull your head in. This is tinpot third world competancy standards you are giving a waved hand of permission to.
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Two aircraft have performed a controlled flight into eachother. Neither aircraft made any erratic, changed, or unpredicted movements. It's absolutely the fault of the air traffic controller who conducted both flight paths into intersecting with each other.
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>>2032882
Thanks for reminding us you have no clue what you are talking about.
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>>2032891
You may not like it, but the best solution is to tear the system down and start over with new minds working on it.
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>>2032892
u r a faggit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#Chesterton's_fence
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>>2032893
>pseudopsychology wank
Yawn.
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>>2032860
That is literally fake news. It’s always funny as fuck when mags tarde complain about everything being fake news, but then go ahead and share fake news articles as if it’s fact. Lmao
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>>2032881
You need to stop obsessing over the 100ft thing. No one thinks 100ft vertical separation is enough. Not FAA, not ATC and not any pilot. The 200ft VFR route through the river is not deemed separated from short final RWY33. Any aircraft wanting to cross the final need a clearance to do so. The helicopter was instructed to cross behind the traffic (not under, not with 100ft clearance, but BEHIND). So no, no one "regarded 100ft clearance as an adequate safety measure". They were supposed to laterally separate themselves from traffic, not horizontally. They failed to do so, and it caused a crash.

The way the helicopter was operating before that was completely normal. As they were heading along the river southbound, they were far below outbound traffic, and erratic flying is totally normal for helicopters.

Obviously this situation went catastrophically, but that doesn't change how the rules are today and how ATC is supposed to exert control. We don't directly control VFR. If we are supposed to cancel the approach any time a VFR "appears to be" going too close to arriving traffic that they report in sight, then we'd have to completely segregate VFR from IFR airspace, and ban visual approaches and departures. I promise you, that will never happen.

I will reiterate: stop having opinions on things you know nothing about. You are not in aviation, nor are you familiar with how the air operates, or the rules within. Your opinion is based on a critical lack of knowledge and it is worthless.
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>>2032820
I get it. Practice for POTUS evacuation in the event of a nuclear attack.
Our army performs live fire exercises for various scenarios. They just don't conduct them in my neighborhood.
>>2032821
Set an example. Take the bus.
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>>2032924
>Practice for POTUS evacuation in the event of a nuclear attack.
lol that story is bs.
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>>2032881
I don’t think you understand the system or the responsibility of the various operators within the system. It’s people like you who yell for change when you don’t understand how things currently work.
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>>2032909
Did you even read the headline lol
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It was piloted by a women ahahahahahahahahaha
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Shouldn't the plane have kind of appeared like a threat target on the helicopter's radar? Cockpit alarms should have been going crazy!
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If the Helicopter had hit it with a Hellfire to knock it out of the way before they collided, everyone probably would have had a better chance to survive.
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So military pilots regularly lie to ATC, i guess thats the lesson
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>>2032710
>I joked a lot with dei and boeing before
>people still are at it with dei even though it was a qualified white woman. Yesterday they were saying it a was troon(I agree they shouldn't be in the military) and after he literally announced it wasn't him people still commented as if it was.
ever heard that, maybe, you are part of the problem? the internet is a big place and most people are low IQ. do the math...
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>>2032276
idgi is she supposed to be retarded or something?
because you're retarded and he was right
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>>2032915
>The way the helicopter was operating before that was completely normal.
Unable to maintain an altitude ceiling is not "completely normal". What else might this pilot be incapable of?

>and erratic flying is totally normal for helicopters.
It had better not be, particularly in controlled air space. Or kerp your toys inside military reservations.



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