nordicbr/o/s, have you driven all-season tyres like the Michelin CrossClimate during winter?according to tests, they are almost as good as actual winter tyres, but I don't think they test them in really cold temps like -10 celsius and lower, so i want to know if they are still good in those temps
>>28712233If it's literally snowing, an A/S tire can't compete with a studded snow tire, an A/S tire can do okay if it's snowing a little, but if your area has winters, switching to snow tires is safer than sliding around on an A/S tire.
>>28712237Studs don't do anything in snow. They are for traction on ice.
>>28712237i wouldn't get a studded tyre in any case, because the noise on dry asphalt is really badit's between allseason or friction winter tyre for me
>>28712233Crossclimates are very good snow tires but studs are always better when it gets icy.
>>28712233no one uses this shit here in finland
>>28712237Unless you're regularly and almost exclusively driving on ice or packed snow, running studded tires is retarded. I live in the UP and the only vehicles with studded tires here are farm tag trucks that get used to go ice fishing. A set of blizzaks is enough for any car to be fine in the snow.
Didn't Volvo try to ship all-seasons in some of their EV cuckovers before they recently switched back to offering two separate sets of tires?The Swedish National Road and Transport Research Institute tested those recently. From their summary:>On ice, the differences between all-season tyres and Nordic winter tyres were significantly greater, where the braking distance for the all-season tyres was about 25–50% longer than the reference tyre, and the average for the group just over 30% longer (about 35% if the non-winter approved tyres are also included). The ice grip compared to Nordic winter tyres is much worse than what we have seen for other types of winter tyres in previous VTI studies, and the worst of the all-season tyres performed in principle equivalent to the best summer tyre, which had 53% longer braking distance than the reference tyre. The two Nordic winter tyres performed quite similarly here as well, with the worse of them having 5% longer braking distance compared to the reference tyre.The all-seasons did ok enough on snow, but if you live in an environment where the temps seesaw around the freezing point for a significant chunk of the year and there might be fresh, smooth ice on the road every morning, you may want to invest in a proper winter tire set.
>>28712233all-season should be banned, and i think it is in some countriesthey're the phev of tiresworse than summer tires in the summer, worse than winter tires in winter, worse than either in rain
>>28712253most all-season tyres are a lot better than nordic winter tyres in the wet
>>28712233lol no. They're still inferior to proper winter tires, and feel like shit compared to proper summer tires when it's warm as well.
>>28712233I love CC2s. They aren’t amazing at -10 in pure breaking but they do clear a lot of water and snow and ice still
What is with Americans and this pathological hate against winter tires? Up here in Canada you’d be seen as a dangerous, bumbling retard if you attempted to argue using AS in the winter. How can a nation so rich cheap out on something as important as tires?
>>28712263The majority of the country doesn't see enough snow fall to really need 2 sets of tires. The people asking this question usually live in a place where they might get a foot of snow all year at most, so they try to rationalize not buying another set of tires for a week or two of use. Up where there's actually real snow and ice, everyone has snow tires and a winter shitbox. >How can a nation so rich cheap out on something as important as tires?The majority of the U.S is not rich. Most people are completely underwater on a retardedly expensive car payment and look for every excuse to not spend more money on their vehicle.
>>28712263Because I get 20 inches of snow where I live? When I lived where it got 70+inches I got winter tires.
as far as I've understood, there are four types of winter tyres>studdedthese are the best in ice and packed snow but useless everywhere else, illegal in some countries>nordicthese are excellent in snow and pretty good on ice, but bad everywhere else, not usable in warmer temps>central europeanthese sacrifice some performance in colder temps to have better performance in dry and wet conditions, good on snow but bad on ice>all-seasonalmost as good as the central european in snow but better in dry and wet, significantly better in warmer temps
>>28712233All season tires have plenty of traction on dry asphalt even well below -10 celcius, but theyre awful on snow, especially on snow mush. You can get stuck easily and going up any sort of snow-covered inclination will be a nightmare
>>28712284This, America is not truly rich, but rich in the way of we can get credit for things, the downfall is that we have a major recession about every decade, just the debt based economy things.
>>28712284>but rich in the way of we can get credit for thingsbecoming credit slave make someone rich ?
this little guy went everywhere in the 2013 blizzard we had. 12 inches was not much of an issue.
>>28712439It gives the appearance of wealth, that's why our Israel first President is trying to get 50 year mortgages, so that American can LARP as homeowners, meanwhile they're gonna fucking die before the shit's even paid off.
>>28712253Nobody gives a fuck about your opinion.Majority of the planet doesnt get snow.
>living somewhere cold and snowy >not getting winter tiresI really don't get it. It's not even an expense if you think about it...you're splitting the miles put on a set of warmer season tires with a set of winter tires. Your tires will last twice as long now. Just swapped my blizzaks on today
>almost as good as actual winter tireslol lmao, even
>>28712551>Your tires will last twice as long now. Not really, unless you drive a lot your tires will dry rot before they're worn down so you still have to buy new tires every ~5 years but two sets instead of one.
>>28712605>so you still have to buy new tires every ~5 years but two sets instead of one.That expiry date these tire manufacturers pull on us is bullshit. It's just tire. Why would it deteriotate so hard in five mere years? I'm thinking seven is minimum, and chances are you would need to replace them by then anyways. And season-centric tires probably are more durable in their specific conditions than all-season tires.
I really hate changing tires, it's the worst two days of the year. With that said, you don't want to be using those shit all-season tires when there is a blizzard and the road is treacherous and constantly shifting between wet and ice and snow. Hell I think they made all-season tires illegal in Sweden.
>>28712615Tires expire because theyre made out of polyester.Reminder that Kevlar was created for tire construction.But it was too good.Imagine having tires with performance grade grip in all weather, lasted 200k miles AND were literally bullet proof
>>28712620>changing tires, it's the worst two days of the yearHuh?>Have flat on freeway during road trip with buddy.>Pull over on shoulder on major freeway. Neither of us want to be there any longer than we have to be.>Hes on the jack, im on the wheel.>By the time I pull spare and loosen nuts its in the air.>I pull flat off and throw on spare>Buddy puts flat in truck while I spin on the nuts.>Buddy let's down jack and throws jack in truck while I torque lugs.Back up to freeway speed in under 3 minutes.
>>28712605Potentially, yea. I've always gone by a 6 year rule, which at 10k/yr puts you at 30k on each set of tires. If you're buying performance tires, that's about what you expect mileage-wise before needing to replace anyway. Dry rot is not as much of an issue since they're seeing half the amount of heat and UV, assuming you're storing them properly.
>>28712233depends on winterthe winter-ness of a tire mostly comes down to how cold of a temperature they turn too hard and slippery at (and, inversely, too soft and mushy at for winter tires), and all-season tires just have the point moved a dozen degrees down so you can still drive in single digit minus. but if your winters are negative in farenheit, you'll die on all-seasons.
>>28712551tire changes cost over a 100 euros a year if you do it twicenot to mention the vast majority of garages are only open 9-5 so you have to beg your employer to get time off to go and get it donenot worth it
>>28712668Do it yourself? 100euros will get you all the tools you need and it takes 30min to do yourself
>>28712675that implies you have an extra set of wheels, which is probably like another 1000 euros for a decent set
>>28712679It makes no sense to swap tires across one set of rims. Get a cheap set of wheels. There's no need to get fancy wheels for winter driving. Steelies are totally acceptable.
>>28712668They have mobile tire guys now. Guy who changed my tire said he did a 911 before coming to my house. The mobile shops can handle center wheel locks now also.
>>28712679>that implies you have an extra set of wheels, which is probably like another 1000 euros for a decent setAt least for smaller cars, you can buy decent-looking aluminum alloy wheels for ~100 € a piece, which is what a semi-decent 205/55R16 winter tire costs, too.You'll also likely have to pay a shop to mount the tires on the wheels and balance them, but you might still be able to get the whole deal for under 1000.Having a second set that fits the car tends to increase its resale value quite a bit, too, at least in countries where people care about that sort of thing.
>ppl itt>not understanding tire performance is the #1 way to noticeably change driving characteristics of a vehicle >lemme slap some all seasons on this car I bought for the driving dynamics
>>28712263>Canadian intellectualBecause they don't want to buy a set of tires for the 1-2 weeks it snows for the entire year, Canadian Einsteinjan. Now go eat your curry.
So what I gather from this thread is that all-season is a decent option to like up to -10 celsius, but probably not for small country roads which may be not well maintained?
>>28712445wasn't american houses made in last 5 years have horrible quality ? Npc takes 50 year mortgage to buy house . House is made from rotten wood and collapses in 10 - 15 years . Npc still needs to pay that mortgage . American dream 2025
>>28712709Anything's better than a summer tire if there's snow on the ground. All-seasons might be fine if the temps and snow aren't too severe and you don't need to drive on ice of any kind.If there's smooth, fresh ice that hasn't been worked into a rough surface by e.g. other cars' studded tires, you might be mildly fucked.
>>28712725Yeah this country's a joke now at everything, literally the only houses worth buying are those 1500 sq ft from the 1950s people used to own because it was actually built nice, they were also comfy too.
>>28712709Jesus Christ no. Once the high temperature is consistently below 7C, you should swap to winter tires. Snow or not doesn't matter.
>>28712764nah, all-seasons can fuck with winter tyres pretty well these days, the best ones sometimes even beat them in testslook at that >>28712729
>>28712775How do they performance against reference summers in the summer?
>>28712792There's a bigger difference between summer and all-season tyres than winter and a/s tyres, especially when it comes to wet handling and braking.the best a/s tyres can be as good as a top winter tyre but won't get close to summer tyres
Not reading any of this thread, just wanted to say:For me? It's studless hakkapeliittas
>>28712800Yea, so all-season don't make sense. That's my point. If you want to swap tires, just get friggen winters and good summer tires...otherwise avoid a/s and get tires that perform well for the other 3/4 of the year.
>>28712810winter tyres suck in the wet thosummer tyres are good for 3/4 of the year but absolutely useless in winter, while winter tyres are the oppositeall-season makes sense cause they are kinda decent all year round
>>28712817Did I do the right thing by getting all terrain tires? My prior experience was with Falken Wildpeak Trail and they gripped wonderfully and securely in heavy rain - I've never experienced that before. The previous tires were nearly bald and were terrifying in a thunderstorm cuz my family was driving and insisted on trying to go fast in the rain to keep up with traffic cuz the lines on the road disappeared and the tires couldn't handle it. I got Wildpeak AT4s for my current car. They are like the Wildpeak Trail but a little chunkier and I hope they are good enough for icy roads. Winter tires seemed like not the thing for rough mountain roads.
>>28712821all-terrain tyres for a mid-size executive sedan?i don't think they even sell them in those sizes
>>28712822>>28712821whoops, i read it wrong and thought you suggested a/t tyres for methey are fine i guess if you have a 4x4
>>28712821do you have a kia
>>28712668buy an extra set of wheels for 50 euros, either steelies or used oem wheelsif you can store tires, you can store entire wheels
>>28712810I think most people don't want to bother with switching tires/wheels especially if there is barely any snow where they live. Especially if it's just an appliance to them. I was driving my parents in their cx-5 with Toyo AS and there is way less grip than my 911 with pzeros.
>>28712242>no one uses this shit here in finlandThey're marketed to lesbians who drive Subaru in Oregon or the UP of Michigan. Goodyear and Bridgestone are DEI and make a clone.
>>28712693They literally have to have oem wheels in most of Europe or they'll get ticketed/impounded.
>>28712810You know it gets cold enough during the summer months to damage some summer tire compounds, right? Are you really expecting people to run performance summer tires on their cuckovers and minivans? If I should be running summer tires care to show me some 10 ply load range E summer tires that will work for my SUV? I know you people shilling summer tires and shit talking all seasons live in places that get shut down with a 1/8'' of snow.
>>28712698Enjoy crashing then.
>>28712263I live in the midwest and only use AS tires. All you have to do in ice is drive slow. Just drive slow. Take your time.
Scandanavians use proper snow tires because they get measurable snow. I don't blame them for looking down on whoever uses CrossClimates on their cars.t. CrossClimate user
>>28713105How YOU drive is irrelevant. Driving slow (and putting everybody else at risk but that's another thread) and leaving a big gap is just asking for some dumb roastie to take that gap and brake check you. Since you don't have proper winter tires you have to pick between hitting her and taking the at fault or swerving into the curb and leaving on a flatbed with a $7k repair bill.
>>28713162Well good thing I live in the middle of nowhere so I never have to worry about others really.
>>28712938>They literally have to have oem wheels in most of Europe or they'll get ticketed/impounded.lolwutWe have some of the strictest inspections in my country, and any wheels of roughly the same size as the originals are fine.Also, if the vehicle's annual inspection happens to take place during summer, the vehicle will never be inspected with its winter set.
>>28712233All season tires are a meme and no amount of shilling and paid reviews will convince me otherwise. t.fell for the meme twice
>>28713418are all terrain tires a meme or do I REALLY need winter tires for ice?
>>28712817winter tires can be used even in summer, i had old worn studded tires with the studs removed as my summer tires last yearall seasons are dogshit>>28712668>>28712679subhuman retard>>28712938where? i've never heard of that>>28713426all terrains suck
>>28712233You are a poorfag if you can't use summer tires year round.
>>28713860Yes, because living in Guyana versus Toronto indicates you’re rich.
>>28713865In FL we should gas Canadians. This time of year. They bring there shitbox covered in road salts... They drive like 4mph. Albeit they are pretty much always from ontario.
>>28713870Okay… If anything it shows Canadians are rich enough to make trans-continental treks, with multiple sets of tires while faggots like you sit and complain, acting like only having the capability of having one set of tires is a marker of wealth?
>>28713865Also driving buy a road salted car. I feel like my car could catch AIDS from the road salted car.
>>28713875Why would you ever want to drive on winter tires? If it says anything Canadians are too poor to afford drag radials.
Kind of piggybacking off this thread, but are these kind of "Nordic" friction tyres like pic related even worth it anymore? Last year in Estonia I think we had week of frigid weather, the rest of the time it was hovering around -5 to +5 celsius, lots of slushy/wet or dry pavement.Should I just get an European winter tyre for the increased wet and dry weather capability?
>>28713880this has to be bait lmfao, i had a laugh at least>>28713876just take a bath in your salt water bro
What size should I pick for my winter tires? OEM width is 8.9" so would 8.1" be too narrow? Or is 8.5 the happy medium.
>>28714110it will make absolutely zero difference... Skinnier tire will be a little better at cutting through thick snow, wider will be a hair better for gripping on top of snow/ice. Just pick the cheaper package.
>>28714110I would never ever run a 45 section tire in the winter, or a 55 but to each their own. Skinnier with a taller sidewall is always the better winter option.
>>28714134Kinda what I figured, thanks for the input.>>28714152What would you run on a 17x7 rim then? I wanted to keep as much sidewall as possible for more ground clearance it's virtually equal with my oem summer tires at 26".
>>28714162Most vehicles have 2 tire size options. I would just run the smaller rim and taller sidewall option in the winter to keep things simple. A 20mm difference in tire widths won't make much of a difference on the rim. If you go with too narrow of a tire on too wide of a rim then you can start to stretch your tires and loose sidewall height as well as have your rims more exposed.
>>28712729I used to believe this. This winter I've been despondent, I have not swapped my tires over. I'm running cheap as dirt chinesium summer tires still on three rigs. It's been, frankly, shocking. Ice? Grip. Glazed hardpack? Grip. 2 inches of wet snow? Grip. At 3-4 inches they started to get a little dicey, but even then I didn't truly have any trouble. It has frankly blown my mind that my cheapcunt summer tires are doing so well. Still have studded hakas on the way for the van, tho. I have a sneaking suspicion one good spot of proper black ice and it's all over.t. life-long interior Alaskan
>>28714162It's fine. Search tire rack. My winter set is staggered and smaller wheels can't fit the brakes. 235/40 R19 295/35 R20
>>28712238perhaps you misunderstood that anons message. i will do the same to you. do you really think the existence of snow and ice are mutually exclusive?studs or no studs, its still a comparison between a winter tire and all season compounds. >>28712233in canada, with a similar climate and terrain you can get away with shitty all seasons in the flat plain areas during winter. if you are west in and around the mountainous areas you will surely die a horrendous death on an all season compound. rural mountainous areas, chains are a must.
>>28714247Maybe you're just used to driving there and have somehow managed to avoid spinning the tires like a retard?Yeah, I'd say pray you don't have to do a hard emergency braking in a bad spot.
>>28714335I'm almost certainly used to driving here - it's why I check conditions and tires by running a test emergency brake and with test drifts. The super soft dirt cheap chinese summer tires just work (so far).
>>28712907But snow isn't why one gets winter tires. It's temperature. The main point is softer rubber in cold temps.>>28712950>I know you people shilling summer tires and shit talking all seasons live in places that get shut down with a 1/8'' of snow.Nah, I live in canuckistan.
>>28712810>>28712950Some of us live in places that are just straight-up climate clusterfucks too. I live where the mountains collide with the high desert and it's all over the place, we can go from knee-deep snow and hockey rink roads to t-shirt weather in a week in January, or go from weeks of 70s and 80s to a major snow dump on the literal summer solstice, and the forecasters barely have any more idea of what's gonna happen than we do, so you kinda have to run tires that can handle everything during late spring/summer/early fall and then winters the rest of the time. If you want to drive a performance car on actual summer tires it kinda needs to be a second car that you only take out when you're sure that day will be good for it.
