>we grow thousands of pounds of food every year on our 1/4 acre of landhttps://youtu.be/PiN7-Yew7xU
>>2770082>woman filming herself and talking.aviI'm sure it's all true
>>2770082Easily possible. An acre is defined as enough land to produce all vegetables, fruits and grains for an average medieval family. Unless you're living in the retarded states, that is, where they used that definition on the east coast, and then just fixed the size for the rest of the country, but I digress...Anyways, 1/4 acre is between 600 and 3000m2 in temperate climate. 1m2 can produce 5kg of potatoes easily, if enough fertilizer and water are available, so you're looking at 3000+ kg, or ~6000lbs even if you're just growing a potato monoculture. Add in some fruit trees (that'll provide shade for the veggies while needing almost no space) and let some chickens roam free on the field and keep some bees, and you're looking at more more than 5-10 tons of food.And that's not just theory: on the 200m2 I've grown on this year, I've harvested around 40kg of cabbages, 20kg of tomatoes, 25 kg of apples, 13 kg of mirabelle plums, 5 kg of currants, around 150kg of eggs (didn't actually weigh them, just extrapolated), around 50 kg of honey and around 500g of beans (yeah, they didn't grow well). So more than 1,5 kg per m2, even with plants that don't produce high amounts, on a plot that hadn't been fertilized in 15 years.
"BRO JUST PUT THE SEED IN THE GROUND AND WATER IT!YOU'LL BE FEEDING YOURSELF IN NO TIME!"You can trick a new comer, but you can't trick a seasoned farmerI can grow tomatoes like you wouldn't believeBut to think I could survive a winter on tomatoes is retardedFarming alone helps you understand why communities arose in the first place
>>2770145>why communities arose in the first placeI agree with everything you said and this too, except even before farming literally no one ever lived outside of community. Humans just can't function alone, you might "live alone" in a city but you are not living *alone*.
>>2770145tomatoes are delicious what are you talking about
>>2770145but what if you have chicken and cows too?and some beans potato and carrot?maybe all kind of herbs?maybe wheat and a windmill?
>>2770192Gonna cry? Gonna piss your pants? Maybe? Maybe shit and cum?
>>2770082Anita Sarkeesian is a farmer now?
>>2770192Unless you're buying all their feed animals take more land to produce the same amount of calories
>>2770145>>Farming alone helps you understand why communities arose in the first placewas the literal crux of the video. she says she is involved with her community a lot >>2770158
>>2770145>BRO JUST PUT THE SEED IN THE GROUND AND WATER IT!YOU'LL BE FEEDING YOURSELF IN NO TIMEliterally no one said that
>>2770082Permaculture is exponentially better than corporate monoculture and always will be.>>2770123We both know her husband funded the whole project.
>>2770219True ish unless you live next to a wetland and actually know how to rotate pasture--which most people who raise livestock don't do. Most livestock is raised where there shouldn't be livestock like Western Washington or Oregon where the plant species are all wrong to support them.
>>2770260You would still get more calories from just farming the same area of land. Cattails are a prime example of a crop that would do well in wetlands. Per acre you can yield more than 3 tons of pollen, more than 3 tons of flour made from the roots, and tons of edible vegetation like young female flowers and the bases of the leaves.
>>2770259>Permaculture is exponentially better than corporate monoculture and always will be.Indeed. Even wild moderate density 40-60 year old chaparral in AZ and CA can produce up to 3 tons of edible seed and berries an acre a year (old growth chaparral of which there is still well over 1 million acres in AZ and CA that hasn't burned in 100-200 years produces up to several times this amount), even disturbed low density chaparral can produce 0.5 tons of seed and berries a year. With fully domesticated species adapted to your local climate and soil you can get even more out of an acre (4-8 tons). There is an increasing trend in western US plains farmers (non-monsanto or big corp owned) to start using mixed culture crops with little or no tilling, and it works way better than monoculture and is healthier for the shortgrass prairie surrounding the farmlands. There are crops and plants adapted to just about every climate in the world, people just need to be more in tune with it and less focused on solely profits. The soviets also grew citrus orchards in sub-arctic climates in walipinis without using artificial mechanical heating or greenhouse inducing glass coverings, using earthen trenches with wood or fabric coverings at night. Another cold weather ambient heating method in modern times are sand batteries (sand is an efficient thermal bank), where solar energy is collected and concentrated into reservoirs of sand which are placed in a greenhouse at night or the heat is channeled to the sand banks already in the greenhouse. And another challenging environment, dry arid desert (sub 300mm rainfall), is mitigated by use of keyline channels and swales and extremely hardy drought adapted species both perennial and annual permaculture (works better and uses less water long term). There are native legumes in the lower Sonoran desert that are adapted to 100-300mm of annual precipitation, there are also native corns and a native squash adapted to the same conditions.
>>2770145>YOU'LL BE FEEDING YOURSELF IN NO TIME!"Correction : I'll be feeding the deer in no time. Fuck deer.
>>2770387So you get free meat
>>2770321I enjoyed your article, nerdthanks for sharing--gives me some hope
>>2770219True to a degree. Thats assuming your pasture is suitable for farming or you have the hours in the day to farm it. The best small farm is mixed use.
>>2771329no, he was being generous. If you permaculture you can grow exponentially more calories per acre than raising animals ever could.
>>2771329No, that's not assuming anything. That's just how it works.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_levelThe efficiency with which energy or biomass is transferred from one trophic level to the next is called the ecological efficiency. Consumers at each level convert on average only about 10% of the chemical energy in their food to their own organic tissue (the ten-per cent law). https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ecological_pyramid&wprov=rarw1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_efficiencyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_flow_(ecology)
>>2771337>>2771465Yes, you are assuming the person that owns and works the land is capable of working ALL the land.I am going with a more practical, real world application whereas you are going with a textbook/best case example. From a historical context husbandry was less about harvesting meat for food as it was for the resources the livestock added to the equation. Animals were typically only slaughtered when they became ill or neared the end of their useful life. Not all land is economically.suitable for farming, but can be for grazing.
>>2771513You're changing your argument because you know you're wrong.Even a shitty permaculturist will grow exponentially more food per acre than a talented herder.My family raises cattle and Goats in Montana, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
>>2771465There are examples of permaculture in the Arid zones of India and the SW of the US where massive amounts of food crop are being extracted from lands not suitable or barely suitable for grazing animals. The only people that would claim pasture animals can keep up with permaculture setups don't know anything about pasture animals or permaculture.
>>2771465The problem with holding up Trophic Level like some kind of religious icon is that you don’t have a rumen. Depending on climate, a given area of land may be able to provide a ruminate with 15-20 times the calories it can provide a human.
>>2771581wow, this is very clearly someone who is very very stupid trying to sound smart.Rumen is a component of digestion--it has nothing to do at all with the overall % of biomass converted to calories as an overall comparable metric between plant harvest and animal harvest.Dude was talking about biomass conversion and you're talking about how an animal digests food.Also, you complete moron, as I said before arid lands can be farmed by permaculture methods and there are examples in India, Africa and the US that do exactly that.
>>2771581here you go dummieeven fucking Saudi Arabia can use permaculture where there is fuckall for grazing land.https://www.greenprophet.com/2020/08/the-al-baydha-project-how-regenerative-agriculture-revived-green-life-in-a-saudi-arabian-desert/
>>2771599>Rumen is a component of digestion--it has nothing to do at all with the overall % of biomass converted to calories as an overall comparable metric between plant harvest and animal harvest.How do you convert biomass to calories except through digestion you retarded fucking cultist?
>>2771613>UnhingedLOLYour aggressive stupidity is truly remarkable and is only outpaced by your reading comprehension. The only cultist here is you: a proud member of the cult of stupidity.So tell me rumen boy--how many acres of grazing land does a goat need to produce the equivalent amount of calories as a single acre of permaculture.We have already established permaculture can be implemented where there is NO grazing.
>>2771513That's a different argument entirely and it's not a very good one. If you can't work all of your land you bought too much, planted inappropriate crops, don't have the proper equipment, or failed to consider the seasonal labor you would need. Unless your livestock performs some actual labor they are a detriment to your setup.>Not all land is economically.suitable for farming, but can be for grazing.In this case you are buying all most or all of the feed and the land itself is immaterial. You could raise them in an old office building with the same results if you could get it for cheap enough.>>2771581That's just not true.
>>2771643You're so much nicer to a person who obviously doesn't deserve it than I'm capable of being.Bless your precious heart anon.
>>2771669Only on certain boards. I'm not very nice on /b/
>>2770637On a crossbow for me by Robin Allen and gibson's. I've got two mechanisms but only the one stock made but I've got the other stock materials set aside now
>>2770082In medieval times one person could just about work about 4 to 5 Acres on their own without help from an ox pulling a plow or something like that. With a few more modern tools you can easily double or triple that. But then you need kids to help you out as you get older
>>2771537Grazing lines are typically not very productive areas to raise crops in as they get poor levels of an unpredictable amounts of rainfall during the growing season and/or combination with bad soil
>>2771883>He said, not realizing that irrigation and fertilizer have existed for thousands of years
>>2771940People graze animals there because the little fertility makes it impractical to fertilize and irrigate. Fix that for you
>>2771990That's not true at all. They do it because it's cheap land and it's profitable to raise cattle on purchased feed.
>>2771940You're an idiot.Introduced Grazing animals are the number 1 killer of baby trees and shrubs.I don't understand why you have such a hard on for meat animals because everything you've said is retarded and wrong.
>>2771883>If I ignore this whole thread that describes being able to do permaculture where there is no grazing animals I can pretend this is true.You can do permaculture where there is zero grazing--examples are linked in this thread.Repeating the same lie over and over is all you got because the truth is beyond you.I can only imagine you're Jewish or some sub human in central America cutting down rainforests for cattle feed.
>>2772260>You can do permaculture where there is zero grazingDo you need to put up bird nets, too? I have berry bushes but the birds always get to them as soon as they're ripe.
>>2772288I use nets. I'm not a full on food forest but even permaculture isn't perfect. I am working on a willow fence though--deer are much more a problem than birdarinos.
explain to me wtf is this permaculture and what is it supposed to do? do you just mix the seeds and plant them among weeds in soil?
>>2772524Read the thread.
>>2772524It would be more accurate to say that permaculture focuses on fruit trees, perennials, and self seeding annuals with the goal of maximizing food for the labor involved. It's not well defined right now.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture
>>2772555>Links to wikipediaJFC stop talking out your ass, you don't know what you're talking about and feel bad about linking wikipedia.Permaculture is optimizing regionally what will grow with respect to your watershed and soil conditions. It's permanent agriculture, not industrial monoculture.Learn your water shedLearn your aquiferLearn what plants and insects will work together in your biome.It isn't a one size fits all it's a process that forces nature to your will--it is a process of literally learning your land and plants from the ground up to create a self sustaining system.Read the fucking thread--there are links to people who teach permaculture.
>>2772540i did, there's not much specifics here besides shitflinging. that's why i'm asking>>2772555so what do you personally do different from regular farming? just use perennial self seeding plant species?the wikipedia talks about how it's supposed to sustain itself but goes into little detail about how that is achieved.
>>2772560>There is no specificsThere are two links to people who teach permaculture. They tell you exactly what it is and demonstrate. Why would I put a whole books worth of information into a post when the people who teach it explain it much better than I do.Bill Mollison and Andrew Millison.The premise of permaculture is you cant be a lazy piece of shit that just follows a list of instruction: You actually have to learn about the water, the soil, the plants and the insects of your area.Clearly you're too retarded to do it so maybe just stick to Reddlt and your row of raised beds.You're either dumb as a brick or intentionally being obtuse.
>>2772567damn, permauncultured butthurt from just being asked to describe what you do in simple words. it's almost like asking a hippie why he's smoking weed
>>2772620Not even that anon, but he's completely right. You can't "put into simple words" something that's specific to your native species and overall ecosystem.Imagine if we "put into simple words" Idaho permaculture, but you live in Florida. You do get how that fucks it up immediately, right?
>>2772560More or less. I don't till because it kills soil fungi. I sheet compost in the field. I grow comfrey and alfalfa for green manure. I plant trees with my crops, mostly fruit trees and alder because alder fixes nitrogen. I leave some of my crops to go to seed so I don't have to reseed everything every year. I don't pull native species unless I want to use the spot they're growing in. Ect. It's really more of a philosophy than something you can get specific instructions on.
>>2772623It's a third worlder anon--probably the same dude claiming grazing animals are more calorie dense than agriculture. He's not interested in interaction or learning he's just here to harass white people.
>>2770082Are there any Youtube homesteaders worth watching that aren't obviously fake, too cringe, trust fund babies or other shit like that?The hard part is, you also don't want somebody who doesn't know how to produce a video.
> grow> foodyeah... you're gonna need thousands of pounds of that mostly undigestable anti-nutrient dense shit to feel full and get nutrients.
> buy rural property to get out of the city and be more in touch with nature> plant dozens of invasive plant species
>>2770145>it comes out of the fuckin ground. I couldn't believe it.https://youtu.be/_pDTiFkXgEE
>>2772874>>2772873Why are you so insistent on commenting on something you clearly know nothing about?
>>2772873>i'd better attach a picture of some cuck so its clear you are wrong and i am rightEffeminate way of arguing, but I guess that's what nutritional deficiencies do to a man.
>>2771881I thought you kept the ox so you could save your energy How many horsepowers is an ox
>>2772931around 1.5
>>2772828How tall do your trees get? Don't they block out the sun for other plants?
>>2770082>American doesn't know what allotments are and how much produce they can provideMany such cases
>>2772951My tallest apple tree is over 20ft. I'm planning on air layering the higher branches next spring. They block some sun, but they're spaced out quite a bit and shade tolerant crops do well under them. The alders can be coppiced when I need more light and the roots dying back fertilizes the soil around it.
>>2772951There are tons of shade tolerant species.>>2772967>doesn't read the thread>Says something tangential and stupidmany such cases
