As it is becoming increasingly clear that GoreTex is bad for your health and the environment, I'm looking for alternatives.What are some good alternatives to GoreTex that's less toxic, but doesn't compromise too much on functionality?Pic related; Fjallraven Greenland jacket, which uses wax for (some) water resistance.
>>2787249I use a permeable, water repellent, windproof, diagonal-weave cotton smock. Other alternatives could be wool but only loden and tweed seem to be commercially available, and military surplus. For heavier rain I carry a cheap polyurethane-coated synthetic jacket, siliconated nylon would probably work better. Membranes are less transpirant than natural fiber, very costly, delicate and with a lifespan of about a decade, vulnerable to fire and still have a failure point. The main advantages are light weight and the ability of allow some perspiration, though much less than natural fiber, while being largely waterproof. I think membranes are excessive or useless for most current sport applications and are largely a fad.
>>2787264I forgot about Swanndri, they make water-repellent wool shirts and coats.
>>2787249Rubber coat with bees wax
>>2787249>As it is becoming increasingly clear that GoreTex is bad for your healthNo it isn't, bro.
>>2787249>>>/x/
>>2787249Waxed leather.
>>2787285>>2787286
>>2787297Show me ONE (1) source for Goretex being toxic that isn't some schizo hippie bug eater website.
Waxed cotton rain cape.
>>2787300https://pirg.org/articles/new-research-finds-plastic-in-human-brains/#:~:text=In%20total%2C%20the%20results%20of,brain%20is%20on%20the%20rise.I would avoid wearing plastic entirely.
>>2787306two links away, the actual study: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/president-donald-j-trump-free-speech-policy-initiative1. the main plastic found in brain tissue was polyethylene. goretex is not made of polyethylene.2. the scientists think the most likely source of plastic in the brain is ingestion. hmm, what is made of polyethylene? food containers, cutting boards...
>>2787314If you're happy with your plastic clothes, enjoy them. I'll spend the money on wool, hemp, leather, and linen
>the actual study>Irrelevant mutt politicsHave you broken the argumentbot again, anons?
>>2787314>>2787318oops. wtf? that was a link i copied yesterday. i must have copied 50 things since then. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11100893/
>>2787249Have you considered a second hand waxed jacket/Barbour? After a fresh waxing they can be surprisingly water resistant
>>2787297>>2787300>>2787317>>2787318anons anons, simmer down!I need some help hereIs it a retarded idea to buy a duster-style raincoat (picrel) and also buy a fleece jacket to attach it one way or another to the inside of the raincoat to get a warm raincoat?>just buy a warm duster-style raincoatwhere?
>>2787345Why does it have to be attached? You can get plastic trenchcoats for less than that.
>>2787345We have oilskin dusters for that.
>>2787317faggot
>>2787249Silpoly is the best balance of performance and not poisoning the earth or yourself. Silpoly does not breathe but it will never wet out and you can simply design the jacket to have mechanical venting. Timmermade Megazip Silpoly is the best rain jacket on the market by a long shot. And its not hard to DIY one and copy the design you could do it around 100 bucks if he's not currently selling them.Columbia Outdry Extreme is the 2nd best PFAS free rain shell system. Its like shakedry but less breathable and tougher. Bonded Polypropylene (Frog Toggs) is the 3rd best PFAS free rain shell. Its great other than the durability.anyways here's a up to date copy pasta from reddit on the state of post-PFAS membrane jackets:>Arc'teryx and Goretex are moving into their EPE line. Outdoor Research has dropped Goretex entirely in favor of their proprietary Ascentshell (Foray 3) or Ventia (Stratoburst). Loads of companies are switching to Pertex or Cordura or their own formulations. All of these materials are PFAS free.>As far as other gear goes, Nemo is doing some really great stuff with their Osmo and Endless Promise lines- the former is a neat blend fabric that is PFAS and fire retardant free, the latter are all of that as well as being recyclable. Many other fabrics for tents and bags- silnylon, X-Pac and it's successors, and dyneema- don't rely on PFAS for waterproofing AFAIK.>The new generation of membranes are typically more sensitive to getting soiled and subsequently losing performance than the old Goretex was. They like to be washed, and treated with something like Nikwax or whatnot to maintain their dwr over time. Failure to do so means they won't breathe or bead and shed water as well. But other than that, their performance is okay compared to old Goretex and they're much more sustainable.>[adding to this redditor's post] Columbia Outdry Extreme deserves mention as well. I already thought silpoly was superior to gore tex before the post-PFAS nerfs.
>>2787301capes only work below treeline and only work when there isn't heavy wind or sideways rain. they're also rough going off trail or when you're bushwhacking. but they are quite nice and airy when they do work. rainy calm day below treeline on a manicured trail? nothing better. i think everyone should have one in their closet i reach for mine all the time when i'm doing less extreme things and staying off trail. >>2787344they're definitely not waterproof enough for where i live. neither are heavier waxed canvas jackets. i've had barbour, multiple filson i bought before the buyout and nerfs, fjallraven, and tinduck.also waxed jackets are rediculously heavy and not packable. i use them for doing work outdoors in shitty weather but i wouldn't think to hike in them. itd work for a day hike but the idea of taking one backpacking is big time jokes tier.i'm not OP though. >>2787345good luck attaching it without penetrating the membrane. just layer.>>2787264pu is decent but upgrade to silpoly its a little nicer to wear and doesn't peel and lasts longer. its worth it. >>2787317i wish i hiked in a temperate climate. i wouldn't bother with plastic if i did.
>>2787358>cus I want it to be warm>>2787362>$200, no hood>>2787374>good luck attaching it without penetrating the membrane. just layer.layering is annoying as fuck when you have a pack on your back and you do anything besides walking. Shit constantly rides up and down because of the hip belt and it is so motherfucking annoying.
>>2787386They're meant to be worn with one of these not a hood
>>2787373>fire retardant freeI have a garment made from 1980s British military fire retardant cotton, what would be the health risk in using that?
>>2787404Rip your balls
>>2787373So to eliminate PFAS and save the planet from the global warming hoax, Goretex is switching from PTFE to polyethylene... the #1 plastic real scientists found in human tissue. Clown world. Good thing I've hoarded a lifetime supply of vintage Goretex ECWCS shells.
>>2787433>vintage GoretexAnon, I...
Behold. Waterproof denim.
>durableif you want something more durable loggers use a nylon with a polyurethane coat. a lot of boots use this pu coat as well. it's good for about 10-15 years if not rubbed off.something like nasco is 420 denier pu back and only 80ish $. Viking makes one. 420 denier. frogg toggs stormwatch. rain gear pro is kind of the rolls royce of this field. made in canada.I once saw a shop in Idaho that custom made 1000 denier nylon rain jackets. It's probably overkill but if you want to call and see if they still do it, here is the link:https://clearwatersawshop.com>lighter weighti'd go with something like anti gravity gear with a silicon impregnated nylon (silnylon but there's also silypoly or silicon impregnated polyester)They tend to not be nearly as durable as you are usually going from a 420 denier down to less than 100. anti gravity gear uses 70 denier. These usually have big ol pit zips though for airing out the non breathable fabric.If I wanted more durability out of this i'd probably pair it with an outer jacket to protect it. In my experience polyester dries fast, nylon medium, and organics slow. Problem with manmade is they burn easy from campfire, especially polyester. Some nylons are no melt no drip. I'll go more into this next section.
>>2787440they have been using gortex in rain jackets for almost 50yrs
>>2787443>waxing/organic/otherespecially for hiking, but also for working in, I find waxed clothes atrocious. Maybe if you are in horseback or motorcycle for a ride and have a nearby shelter, fine, but you are usually then dealing with something stiff, heavy, and still not waterproof. Anyone doing work on a farm or logging isn't going to bother wearing such a monstrosity.Even you have compromise choices like Fjallraven (polycotton blends usually 65/35 polyester cotton) i've found success in these but not in the way you'd think. The waxing still ultimately makes the clothing more stiff, less breathable, and still not waterproof. So I ditched the waterproofing. I prefer a long jacket and breathable pants where I usually err toward polycottons.I live in the pacific northwest where we can get all day light rains. As long as my pants are protected from heaven rainfall droplets they dry out in less than 15 mins when i've been fishing all day. The key I have found is wearing loose pants so they aren't directly onto my skin. I use Dickies for these. Use to be 874 but since went wider with their relaxed fit cargo and loose fit double knees. I can even throw a liner underneath them for colder weather and they are plenty cheap and durable.I have even tried this wearing a cs95 british surplus polycotton jacket. It did not fare as well as the heavy droplets permeated through the neck seam. This would have paired well with something like the anti gravity gear silnylon underneath or possibly even just a yoke/cowl/notsurename like picrel. same principle with a loose layer able to take the beating of the droplets without spreading it to the inner layers. that ones made by genuine australian bushwear.
>>2787447if i had to go with 100% organic i'd probably go back to wool. new zealand also gets a lot of rain and they are/were known for their swannies or swanndri. the way they use to be made was one size fits all. the guy would shrink the wool and then bathe it in lanolin.>shrinki'd buy one size up and throw it in the wash. i would only do this with the bush shirt and not the mosgiel because zip won't shrink making for a curvy zip when shrunk. This will cause the material to slightly felt. Your mileage may vary. I usually wear medium but bought large and it shrank down about a size.>lanolinthe way to describe this is why your beard is fairly water resistant and hair not so much. beard hair isn't waterproof and neither is sheeps wool. but if you ever try having soup with a bear the second any broth touches that first beard hair its like a water slide. that's because the oil of your facial hair wicks very well.so when you go back to wool you still have this super breathable outer garment which is rare for something water resistant much less water proof, but if you can load it up with the sheeps oil (lanolin) you can achieve a good compromise.Swanndris are also a loose garment which even waxed cotton stuff like filson or even modern fjallraven lack. the old swanndris were basically 3/4 length sleeves from the shrinking so really just a blanket shirt having similar breathability you might find in a poncho
>>2787447
>>2787451Looking into it, you can get these umbrellas that attach to your backpack somehow.
>>2787452
>>2787433>the #1 plastic real scientists found in human tissueBecause it's used for food containers dumbo. You're not supposed to eat your jacket.
>>2787444I wonder in what conditions a fifty or even five years old jacket might be, considering the lifespan is of about a decade- let alone the fact they might have been used and abused by crayon eaters.
>>2787450So, in germany and austria there's a traditional fabric called strichloden. It is densely felted, napped and unidirectionally brushed wool. It has residual lanolin, but in modern times is sometimes treated with teflon or silicone treatments (if that's not for you, you can find untreated ones and possibly apply extra lanolin yourself). In my opinion, a cloak from that fabric should be superior to a home-felted swanndri. If you're interested, search for strichloden wetterfleck or kotze(yes, that means barf, but it's a cloak). There are various options, but they are pricy.However, I've read opinions from german hunters who traditionally use this cloak. Some of them also do long distance hikes, and the opinion was basically - don't use it for that. It gets damp and cold, it gets heavy, it doesn't dry properly when it's wet all the time. It's great for a single day of hunting, but shit for multiple days of hiking. I assume that applies even more so to your swanndri.
>>2787451>get hit by dust devil >die
>>2787466LMFAO no way, it's the lodenposter again. Loden is not suitable for high intensity activities, no wonder only germhogs use it as they do none :-) . Swanndri is likely largely superior to any homoloden and far less expensive.
>>2787474>Swanndri is likely largely superiorAnd you believe this because... it's not german and you hate germans, do I get that right?
>>2787474Rent freePost flag so I can accurately insult the shithole you're from and the yokels residing thereinSince you're triggered by german discount supermarket chains I presume it's from eastern european state that owes the existence of its economy to german gibs
>>2787476I believe it because I use it, though I haven't use loden its weight alone speaks for its potential performance. >>2787477Kek the germ is ANGRY. >Donz tacch ze LOOOODEEENNN! NOT ZE LOOODDEEEEEEENNNNN! Zis is autrage! Ay vill call ze sturmansfuhrer perzonally!!!
>>2787478>I believe it because I use it, though I haven't use lodenSo you know nothing, got it. >its weight alone speaks for its potential performanceStrichloden is generally of the lighter variety, since it's meant to protect against rain, not cold. Let's compare to the swanndri, shall we?https://www.ebay.de/itm/133872125384?_skw=strichloden&itmmeta=01JCEEX2VANK7R5S5VYTW2A8N4&hash=item1f2b6685c8:g:DyYAAOSw-RhaWKLH>380 g/lfmhttps://www.swanndri.co.nz/products/mens-original-wool-bushshirt-olive?variant=49273706217755>475gsmThe swanndri is in fact made from thicker fabric than this example of strichloden. (The zip swanndri is 345gsm, so comparable.) The difference is one is professionally felted and brushed to deal with rain and the other is felted in some guys washing machine.
>>2787482Bubba I don't give a fuck if you found some "light loden", it's denser heavy fabric. Weight is only an element regardeless, especially considering Swanndris -even the heaiest ones which are the long bush shirts- have a fairly open weave while your obsolete trash is the polar opposite KEK. Why do you get so worked up about a shitty ancient fabric anyway? Do you sell it? Welfare ran out and you're suffering withdrawal from lidl seed oil? LMFAO
>>2787306Lame, I thought it would be another pfas horrortrip.
>>2787482>felted in some guys washing machineKek figures if some germ pig got a clue. Swannies are made in China on an industrial scale.
>>2787483>>2787485>have a fairly open weave>i'd buy one size up and throw it in the wash. i would only do this with the bush shirt and not the mosgiel because zip won't shrink making for a curvy zip when shrunk. This will cause the material to slightly felt. Your mileage may vary. I usually wear medium but bought large and it shrank down about a size.Density is literally what you need to deal with rain. Which is why this guy wants to felt a swanndri in his washing machine. And you somehow make it out to be a negative when dealing with rain was the entire point. Gods are you dumb.
>>2787487Lmao he doesn't give up. Tell me of anyone that uses loden for any high intensity activity. Gabardine, a lightweight fabric that allows more perspiration than your ungodly blankets was invented specifically to trash your overpriced crap well over a century ago kek. You've never even touched a swanndri and admittedly don't use loden, what are you even on about m8? What the guy does is up to him, the shirts are already somewhat felted at least on the surface and reasonably water repellent. They also dry faster than your hunks of crap, the reason why will remain a mistery in your germhog brain by the looks of it lel. Lose weight.
>>2787490There's a few models of loden jacket that are popular in germany. Not for the highest level of activity, but neither is your even thicker, heavier swanndri.>Gabardine, a lightweight fabric that allows more perspiration than your ungodly blanketsAnd you know that... how again? Do you even have any arguments or sources? (Your ass doesn't count.) Densely woven gabardine allows for less airflow than felted melton, which is in fact an advantage if you want it to be windproof. I guess you could suggest a gabardine cloak to the guy as well, but I've never seen that sold, used or reviewed, so I didn't mention it.Anyway. I've time and again provided arguments and even sources to disprove you, and tried to find a levelheaded argument. Meanwhile all you have is baseless claims, denigrations and personal insults....But frankly, what do expect of a guy who is literally triggered by german discount supermarket chains.
>>2787500>Densely woven gabardine allows for less airflow than felted melton, which is in fact an advantage if you want it to be windproof.And yes, I have tested air permeability for (cotton) gabardine and loden. Just breathe against it and see how easy it is. Loden is pretty permeable (and actually kinda shit for windproofness).
>>2787500Mallory and Irvine both had gabardine suits in 1924, wool or cotton gabardine was the standard for mountaineering external layers until membranes became commerically available. Gabardine is more waterproof, windproof and dries faster than any felted fabric. Cloth doesn't perspirate because of "airflow" kek, it's about how vapour and the fabric relate. Nobody wears a 500 eurorinos underperforming piece of garbage outside of germhogs for good reason. You're talking nonsense.
>>2787501Bubba have you lost the plot? Kek the thread is about alternatives to goretex, stop larping as a gerhog 1800s peasant serf lmao.
>>2787504>1924Got anything recent? No? Wool gabardine might be better than loden, but searching for garments made of it shows you only luxury fashion stuff. Which are way more expensive than loden btw.> 500 eurorinos Loden cloaks can be had from 200 upwards. Shows what you know.
>>2787507Swanndri. Lmao you have Alzheimer, I already gave you this same exact lecture well over a year ago. Why are you so keen on the topic, will you tell us? It's obvious you do light causal hiking at best, if that. Is it my boysterous trolling and total defeat of your obsolete pressure lamp maker-jacket?
>>2787464im old. I just donated a north face mt light jacket that was 30yrs old and it looked brand new. granted it was only used for a few years and then sat in a closet but still highly functional.
>>2787508>SwanndriIs not gabardine. Idiot.You live in a counterfactual world where loden is at the same time shit for being denser than swanndri, while gabardine is great for being even denser. Where loden is squarely inbetween two swanndris in weight, yet somehow too heavy. Where everything you use is great and everything you've never even had exposure to is shit. Where insults stand for arguments.
>>2787510LMAO he's got dementia. Swanndri is the ALTERNATIVE you were asking about. Gabardine is THINNER you dummkopf, Swanndri has a wider weave than loden allowing more vapor to pass but the felting closes the gaps to water to some extent, that together with the treatment keeps most water out. Both of these absorb less water due to the fabric structure. Loden is notoriously thick and heavy (like the germhog brain), you said it yourself, it soaks water, never dries, has little resistance to abrasion and is very costly. Nobody uses it for sports.
>>2787513>Gabardine is THINNERWhich makes it denser at the same weight. Keep up my nigger.>Swanndri has a wider weave than loden allowing more vapor to pass but the felting closes the gaps to water to some extent, that together with the treatment keeps most water out.I literally said the same about loden and you called it nonsense. I think YOU are the one with dementia here.>Both of these absorb less water due to the fabric structure.Gabardine absorbs less water, yes. I see no reason why swanndri would.>Loden is notoriously thick and heavyExcept I literally showed you an example that is inbetween the weight of two swanndris. Forgot that too?>you said it yourself, it soaks water, never driesYour swanndri does the literal same. The difference here is am trying to make a balanced argument and you think your swanndri is the hottest shit ever. Then sperg out like an absolute madman because I dare to reason that it is, in this specific role, inferior to a type of loden specifically made to be water resistant.
It is felted, brushed and crushedgermhog loden is overengineered trashdespite it's age and musty smelllook at how the hogs scream, yell:"Can be thin as my own cock!""I could carry all day rocks!""Soaks through quick and doesn't work, use you should is my own tought!" They're a sight to behold, much like in the showers, moldsince it was water and not gasthe guards have pumped and splashed. But as the forefathers did, allied punishment lurks and sneeds-As bomber Harris I come ina sharp troll bombing gives them griefAs Swanndri Stalin marched oncapitulate did the Lidl hog.
>>2787516I lol'd, give my regards to chatgpt.
>>2787514Again? The garments won't have the same weight you stupid cow LMAO. You can use LESS of it because it's more EFFICIENT, and even SWANNDRI is, compared to luriden, and for cheaper. That's the point. Obsolete luriden has to be thick in order to work, better fabrics don't. I've been saying the same thing over and over again. Swanndri dries while you're wearing it since it's not an overly felted barely treated sponge. Regardless, not even swannies are a real alternative to membranes as they're not particularly windproof. You're raging because you need to justify having spent large amounts of money for an old piece of crap kek.
>>2787517Fully composed by a real human (tm).
>>2787485i use to be on this bandwagon of evil china swannis but the fabric is still grown and made in new zealand and all that is happening in china is the stitching. it's a simple garment with a good design (no slim fit bound to tear) so not a lot to go wrong with it.plus i find them on sale for about $150 on new zealand naturals which is same price as cheapest us made wool from asbells. i love asbells but always had issues with stitching and the wool isn't nearly as water repellant.now in comparison to loden I bet they weigh significantly more, have designs that are not as nearly time tested (not as much rain in region as new zealand), and cost significantly more too. It's the same bs about people arguing for weatherwool using the finest rambouillet (only a few microns thicker then the thinnest wool from merino). You're paying $600 plus for a hair that is weaker. this is why i steer people to buying a 50 year old vintage gloverall for $50-$100.In short, you're making a compromise. No clothing lasts forever, but I bet I could afford 3-4 swanndri's for one loden garment. I also bet those 3-4 would last a few times longer then that one loden garment.
64 replies and not a single piece of evidence showing GoreTex is bad for your health?
>>2787586i ate a goretecs and shidded my pant
>>2787373Holy shit. I was designing a non-goretex jacket exactly like this in my head. It was based around my OR Foray goretex jacket which has similar side zips though not as big.I was going to try and make something like this from a cheap sleeved poncho and add some snaps running from waist to cuff but now I can just buy one.I searched for ages for something like this and never found anything.
>>2787314>2. the scientists think the most likely source of plastic in the brain is ingestion. hmm, what is made of polyethylene? food containers, cutting boards...this, the plastic shavings freakout over clothing is completely stupid, are you eating boot leather for dinner too? are you soaking in a bathtub with your plastic jacket?
>>2788080Then keep wearing it.
>>2787586Goytex is a scam anyhow, especially in shoes. The holy trinity of mid
