sorry for not doing the fancy labeled gif. didn't want to mess around with photoshop at midnight.

>>73452416
roundhouse kick an accident down into the concrete. slam dunk an accident down into the trash can. crucify filthy accidents. defecate in an accident's food.

>>73452536
kiss an accident on the lips. push an accident into your bed. cuddle the qt accidents.

random fun fact: this was the first /mbti/ thread that had a 'thread question', at least that had 'mbti' in the subject.

https://desuarchive.org/r9k/thread/63900330/#q63900330

Can we get a real census for who is male and who is female, I need to know

Does anyone else sometimes answer the thread questions but not post them?

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>>73452765
Sometimes I don't even read a single word in the thread that isn't my own. Especially when turbie doesn't show up.

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>>73451599
>That's a wonderful poem!
Wait, wha? TFW your mock INFP flowery nonsensical satire is accidentally GOOD?? Did that just happen?

>But is there even any new wisdom or truth to uncover? It feels like everything has already been discovered ages ago, and needs only be remembered, or at most, rediscovered. And this does rather sap me of my motivation...
I definitely understand what you're getting at. I feel that way more often than not. One only has to read stuff from antiquity to know that not much has changed when it comes to wisdom. It's just out there waiting for us, if we look.
However, much unlike you I think it motivates rather than saps. I don't think that *our* personal discovery is cheapened by learning what was already known and forgotten. It will be this way always. And maybe that's the whole point of it? Interesting thoughts for sure.

>Also, assuming you are who I think you are, why the sudden change of persona? What are you hoping to accomplish?
Who do you assume I am? I wasn't exactly looking for much beyond some light trolling and entertainment. Perhaps even rediscovering some truth in the process . . .

Is this H?

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>>73441695
I'm sending you a midnight good dream package wrapped in cotton wool and scented of lemon. I hope you like lemon Homu. You don't need to open it now, save it for when you need it.

>>73452596
b...but you can just click "previous thread"

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>>73452494
>>your type
Isfp
>>what is the most important thing in your life
Something I'd rather not say in this thread desu. The only close competitor would be my current family for raising me into what I am today and I don't really wish it was anything else
>>what is the most important part of your identity
That's hard to answer
Maybe unironically my habit of questioning lots of things. If that wasn't there, then I don't think I'd be myself which is a scary thought. I can't think of anything else that could be a close competitor except maybe sense of humor. I don't wish it was anything else either
>>what is the most important desire you posess
To me it'd be having sex with my future virgin wife and then raising a family with her
There's no close competitors and I do not wish it was anything else either

>>73452494
hi, could some intps and entps describe their mental processes? i.e. how they think on day to day basis, in own words?

>>73452907
No that's not H but I did pretty much recognize you immediately on your first or second post
I might as well say "the truth" being known by some already doesn't really destroy my motivation unlike that guy. I'd love to know the truth behind the world and our race, whatever it is

>>73453126
Hmm, so you at least know about H. But you didn't say you were H. Is he well? I often wonder how he's doing. How is he?

>I might as well say "the truth" being known by some already doesn't really destroy my motivation unlike that guy. I'd love to know the truth behind the world and our race, whatever it is
What do you think you'd do with that knowledge, once acquired? What next and then?

>>73453220
I killed H and ate his body
>What do you think you'd do with that knowledge, once acquired? What next and then?
I dunno. Spread it and then acquire more power from it and then do some ethcnic cleansing

>>73453067
>>73441695
Well, goodnight homu. I feel like I lack closure without saying that part out loud even if it was implied. Goodnight, and have sweet dreams. x

>>73453230
>Spread it and then acquire more power from it and then do some ethcnic cleansing
Sounds like you already did that to poor H
:'(
Was the power at least worth the atrocity?

>>73453289
Oh yeah it definitely was
Poor old H was begging for his life too

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>>73453407
>Poor old H was begging for his life too
w-what else did he beg for before you delivered him from the suffering of this corporeal existence? Did you oblige his last request, irrespective of how . . . peculiar it may have been? Did you give it to him, I mean?

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>>73452494
>your type
INFJ-A
>what is the most important thing in your life
"Thing"? As in 'object'? Objectively speaking, it has to be me, as without me, there would be no 'my life'. But, if by 'thing', you men something less constraining that also includes abstract ideas and subjects; then, I would say that it would be something along the lines of "The ability to listen to the ideas of the society around me, without being required to conform to those ideas, but rather using them to formulate my own picture of reality."
Or something like that.
>what is the most important part of your identity
Identity is for suckers. My identity is null. Nobody. The thing that floats in your periphery just outside of sight, which fades away any time you try to make it your focus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czg3t7QfqDY
>what is the most important desire you posess
The desire to desire.
>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
No competition. I don't really know.

>>73453440
I pissed on his body

>>73453533
hmmm, he usually likes ice cream on his body, specifically magnum mint. but i suppose it's the thought that counts.
Thank you. As an old friend of H, I appreciate that you tried. I at least have a mental image now for his passing.

the most important thing is the blooming garden of my imagination

would you like some sunshine for that garden

i wanna come and take a fat shit in that garden
you know, to help it grow ofc

f-fertilizer

more like Fe-rtilizer for your Fi-magination
n-no? not working?

>>73453705
lol that was a pretty decent response i'll give you credit. you could be one of those office jesters at work. like you're not necessarily the hardest working person at the office but you do get along well with the boss because of your humor so therefore you get promoted, and your boss sets you up with his wife's sister's friend or something

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>>73453728
you described me exactly. it's almost like you have ESP omg it's eery
the only detail you got wrong was that my boss set me up not with his wife's sister's friend, but his wife
still tho, that's near psychich levels of sight from you and it's impressive

ESP or just maybe it's the blooming garden of my imaginaton. you scored with your boss's wife? what pls explain that to me

Nice to see more people are dropping the IEIE stacks and looking for alternatives in the previous bread. One day it will be more than a niche for people who bother to read Jung, I hope

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>>73453873
I certainly hope so as well. I'm fairly certain of being Ni-Ti, and """looping""" from Ni past Fe never sat well with me. I feel like I am what you'd get if an INTJ and an INFJ committed Ni-cest (eh? yeah?) and had an autistic child

Ni-ncest omg
dat low as fuck Se-epage

>>73453897
"Ni-Ti" was Nietzsche in Psychological Types, so there's that. He is used as example of Ti in the OP link, but earlier in the book it clarifies that his writing shows Thinking, while his character was obviously more of an introverted intuition type.

Progress is slow, but it's certainly there.
I can still remember how Si used to be nothing but memory or traditions, now most people here go for something that references the original definition

>>73453932
>I can still remember how Si used to be nothing but memory or traditions, now most people here go for something that references the original definition
Has there been that much progress here? I haven't frequented this place for years, but that's really good to hear. We can offically say we're >>> a certain other more popular MBTI cafe that shall not be named. There's that, at least.

>>73453962
Yes, that happened at least one or two years ago.
While only in the last year I noticed more people arguing for alternative stack theories, even if it's still not enough.
I'm going to bet sakinorva had a role in this for writing that one essay about "contextualizing functions". It doesn't argue for different theories but it shows just how little authority the current stuff has.

>>73453997
Looking it up and reading it now. Thank you, Anon.

>>73453932
It honestly boggles my mind that sensation, which is literally named after the physicals senses and sensations somehow got conflated into "memory and traditions". Sensation is quite literally the most straight forward function, "the proclivity to prefer exploring the world with the senses" and somehow people still managed to fuck it up beyond recognition.
What's the deal with that?

>>73452494
>your type
INTP
>what is the most important thing in your life
faith
>what is the most important part of your identity
don't know
>what is the most important desire you possess
desire for a white girls pussy
>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
I wouldn't choose a different answer

>>73454025
Intuitive bias in the original MBTI theory and an attempt to force a false dichotomy with the Ne types described as innovators who break established conventions.

>>73454025
Don't you know the difference between the two sensing categories Si and Se?

>>73454370
>"Don't you know the difference between introversion and extroversion?"
Yes...? Do you?

>>73454394
you are the one doing the conflating, you don't see that there's two different styles of sensing within typology.

Si is more concerned with memory and tradition
Se is more about exploring and experiencing the novelties of the physical world

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>>73452613
Male:
- Centaur
- Breeder
- Prince
- Megumin
- INTJfemboi
- Sophie
- India November
- Apollo
- Cooking/Gardening/Travelling ENFJ
- Mosley
- Himeno
- INFJ-A
- Turbie Enjoyer

Female:
- ENFJ-senpai
- Chuck
- Rxy
- Prince's gf

Unknown or Unconfirmed:
- Turbie
- Homuanon
- anonzzle
- Movie Anon

>>73454417
The difference between Si and Se is the introversion/extroversion axis. It's pretty simple, actually.
>>73454436
There is one type of sensing. It's called sensation. There are two types of sensors. Introverted sensors and extroverted sensors. They both explore the world with their senses primarily. Stop trying to make this more complicated than it really is.

>>73454370
nta but...
Of course both are Sensation so the basic aspects of the function always apply: it's tied to the physical senses, it exists in the present, it does not create value judgements much less any set rules on its own, the objective is always to perceive and there is no point where it stops wanting to experience more stuff.

Se focuses on the "objective" side, hence it becomes perceiving reality as it is, giving supreme importance to actual facts as opposed to "possibilities" or even abstract theorycrafting. The most down-to-earth person you can imagine is most definitely this type, it can sound boring but more often than not you will need a straight man in your life. Practical-minded to a fault, but also tend to have good aesthetic taste, which one of these takes precedence depends on the auxiliary function.

Si focuses on the "subjective" side, sense perception does have a personal side, not everyone sees stuff in the exact same way much less receives the same "impressions". Those types prefer to focus on these aspects as opposed to the reality of objects, so they are more of artistic-minded fellows. As per usual, introverted perception sounds absolutely non-sense to anyone else but the subject himself if they attempt to communicate it directly, so you need to observe it in their works if they are making use of it.
A more common form of "Si" shows in people who are especially keen on noticing physical details, and seem to have a really good memory because they can recall those impressions where most people wouldn't even notice. This is a side-effect, it's important to not confuse it with the basic aspects of the function itself.

>>73454436
Fuck you especially.

>>73454480
do you know the definition of conflating? it's when you take two concepts and merge them into one. you're doing exactly that, and i don't mean to be rude. sorry if i come across as a prick for saying this.

>>73454593
2 attitude-types x 4 function-types = 8 personality types, it's how the OG theory was made.
MBTI split those 8 into 2 subtypes based on which auxiliary function seems to take precedence, doubling it to 16. This is something Jung should have done himself imo, it's more close to how people actually develop and he literally stated it himself.

>>73454474
Sophie and Mosley are females and Chuck is male, otherwise accurate

>>73454608
yes, but jung admits two different types of sensing doens't he? The introverted sensor has a different sensing style than the extroverted sensor.

an Si-dom vs an Se-dom
Si vs Se
there is a distinction to be made between these two things, a distinction you're ignoring it seems?

>>73454617
I just wanted to say that the "Se" and "Si" types are pretty much born from merging Sensation with either Extraverted or Introverted attitude. The definitions follow by applying this operation

>>73454540
no need to be so rude lol

>>73454593
Yes. It comes from Latin. The root word is 'con', which means merged with. It's a very simple word.
I'm not taking two separate ideas and merging them. You are taking one idea and thinking it's two separate ones.

Say it with me, I am not conflating, you are separating.
>>73454617
They have a different style. But they're still doing the same thing. The type different types of sensing are concrete and abstract. Which are just different words for introverted and extroverted. That's it, it's really, REALLY that simple. Jung's typology is so incredibly simple and easy to understand. Stop trying to complicate it with nonsense. The differences you will spot in the behaviors of Si and Se types are the expression of their sensations. Se types will focus on the object which caused the sensation, whereas Si types will focus on the experience of the sensation within themselves.
That's it, and again, the difference I'm highlighting between these two is a difference of attitude. The sensation portion of both of these types is by in large the same.

>>73454474
Is it even worth defining whether tulpas are male or female, also? They are not human.

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>your type
My results flip between INTP and INTJ, but I think P is closest because I'm a lazy piece of shit that enjoys theoreticals.

>what is the most important thing in your life
>what is the most important part of your identity
>what is the most important desire you possess
I stared at this for like 10 minutes and I have no real answer. Just gimme peace and quiet with a lot of books and some free weights.

>>73453097
Kinda vague request, but
>okay, I have X amount of shit I need to get done today
>if I do it in this precise order, I can shave at least 34 minutes off
>this will minimize my time doing things I don't want to and max the time to do whatever
>approximately 5 seconds have elapsed while I calculated this
Then I do it flawlessly, and proceed to use the extra time and the rest of the day to learn about a topic or do whatever project I feel like working on, only to realize it's already the end of the next day and all the shit I needed to get done THAT day hasn't been done yet because autism, and I don't want to drop it because I'm ass-deep in 3 projects + some media series and I don't want to lose my flow. I have to let online contacts know that I just sometimes disappear for a month or two and that's normal.

>your type
ISTP
>what is the most important thing in your life
my laptop and wifi
>what is the most important part of your identity
I don't have an identity
>what is the most important desire you possess
I want to perfect many things (and die without feeling like I missed out on things)

>>73454803
>The type different types of sensing are concrete and abstract. Which are just different words for introverted and extroverted.
This one isn't quite right.
When he spoke of "concrete" and "abstract" forms of sensation(and actually other functions too), he was talking about different tiers of differentiation.
>concrete sensation never appears as 'pure' sensation, but is always mixed up with presentations, feelings, and thoughts. Abstract sensation, on the contrary, represents a differentiated kind of perception which might be termed 'aesthetic' in so far as it follows its own principle and is as equally detached from every admixture of the differences of the perceived object as from the subjective admixture of feeling and thought, thus raising itself to a degree of purity which is never attained by concrete sensation
Both the Sensation types would use both forms. It's the other types who never use the so-called "pure" sensation.

>>73454863
>presentations
Very deep Jungian lore incoming. Brace yourselves.

"Presentation" is an older word for Intuition. It was used back when Jung's types were only Introverted Thinking and Extraverted Feeling. He already knew about the irrational functions but simply thought they couldn't ever be dominant. Sensation was always associated with the introverted type, while "presentation" was always associated with the extravert. He didn't have a concept for intuition at all here, it's a placeholder for something that isn't sensation.

>>73454540
I'm having a trouble distinguishing the two. You seem to know your stuff, can you give an example for Se and Si?

>>73454895
I did include an example already.
The Se type represses the introverted side and thus focuses on the objective data in the most literal sense of the word. If you ask him what he sees in a ball, he will say it's a round object, it's small, it's white and black.
The Si type represses the extraverted side and thus focuses in the subjective reaction. If you ask him what he sees in a ball, he will say he will tell you that the color and shape are particularly inspiring for him. How exactly and why those two aspects made a stronger impression? That's subjective as fuck so it depends on the person.

>>73454863
I don't know if you realize this, you disagreed with what I said. Then immediately quoted something that was just a rephrasing of what I said.
Something that is pure is (completely) introverted or abstract. Meaning that essence of the [thing] was abstracted out of the object completely.

An orange isn't pure, it can't be pure it's undifferentiated. It has seeds, rinds, pulp, etc, etc. But an orange doesn't need to be differentiated from itself. It's whole, all you need to do is realize that. The thing that makes an orange an orange is all those imperfections.
But orange juice, that's pure abstract differentiated OJ. (bare with with me, it's a metaphor. I know it's flawed)

This is the relationship between all introverted/abstract and extroverted/concrete functions and differentiation. No concrete function can ever be pure due to the nature of objects. You cannot focus on the whole object AND it's individual differentiated components at the same time.
This is all your quote is talking about. The only difference between Si and Se is the I and E. Se has the object included in its pure sensations which makes it impure. Si has the object excluded from the sensation to fully focus on the sensation in its entirety. But they both have the same sensation at their core. Just like at the core of the impure orange lies pure orange juice.

are se users more inclined to say "it is what it is" when they see something?

>>73455090
Fi doms on path of individuation

>>73455104
so that's not a se thing?

>>73455107
Context, breh

>>73455025
sooo to summarize this:
Se users will see things with their details and flaws, whereas Si users will see the thing in a more abstract way, bare of flaws?

>>73455025
I feel like I had this kind of debate already. It's a problem with terminology more than anything.

The "abstraction" in introversion is about separating the "object" from its external relations in order to form internal ones. At its extreme any "objective" quality becomes completely meaningless for the introvert, so the object has no intrinsic value. This is pretty much what leads to any philosophical position that argues for universal truths, and in the worst case a tautology which just states itself.
The "abstraction" of a function is synonym with differentiation from the other functions. If it's sensation, we will make sure we are only considering a physical aspect, such as the "brillant redness of a flower". We don't really care about what a flower "is" in technical terms, much less whether you like it or not, and especially not whether it could possibly turn to a different color.

>>73455090
Kek. I imagine they would like to describe things actually, just to show you how much "aware" of the object they are.

>>73455155
While I am at it, I might as well complete the flower example.

Since both Se and Si types can do this, you can imagine the former will really want to take this flower home and keep trying to find more red objects, while the latter doesn't care so much about the flower itself, but he might feel inspired to reproduce the same redness in a painting or something.
Either way it's an irrational function so you don't ask if there is any rational meaning behind the color Red, that's shit Thinking and Feeling would do.

speaking of flowers and Se/Si, when I see a flower, I admire its beauty and unique shape, and how nature can make things like these. does that sound like Si?

>>73455285
Feeling might have a part in it since it contains a valuation. Likely more close to Si either way because you told me the shape made an impression, but this is all but objective data.

>>73455318
>Feeling might have a part in it since it contains a valuation
idk if that fits, since I just love to explore the world, and idk if impression is the right word since it was more curiosity and surprise as to how nature is more structured than random

>>73455150
You're missing the nuance. But, I am inclined to think that you're starting to grasp it.
Some things to take note of, 'sensation' doesn't always mean "the observation of an object through the means of the senses." As an example, looking at an apple. It also includes sensations that arise in the body without interacting with something. The example Jung uses is "giddiness", but you could replace that with anxiety, or fear, or anything which causes an innervation within the body. 'Anxiety' is not 'sensation', but anxiety has sensation(s) associated with it.
Si focuses on those innervations aka 'sensations' that arise in their body, and that is what is abstract and "pure".

Se will see all the things, all the details.
Si will see the specific details that stand out to them personally.
>>73455155
I've noticed some interesting patterns within your speech. Could it possibly be that you're concealing your identity by speaking in a modified manner?
>is about separating the "object" from its external relations in order to form internal ones.
That's the definition of introversion... An introvert cannot introvert without abstraction. To introvert is to abstract. Abstraction is not the same as introversion but introversion is the same as abstraction. "All apples are fruits, but not all fruits are apples."
>The "abstraction" of a function
I am not referring to that, I see what you're saying and it's correct. I'm referring to the abstraction done by a function, not to a function. Si is an abstract function (not to be confused with an abstracted function, which is speaking to the differentiation of said function, as you said.)

imagine if there are people who are very well versed in typology, who have also mastered the art of communicating with the different types, who can then use this deviousness to manipulate people for selfish purposes. or somethin

ykno what im sayin lol?

>be men
>guy offers me a cigarette
>i say "no thanks, i dont smoke"
>"that's good, smoking is bad for you"

can someone explain the psychology behind this? it seema bizarre to offer someone a cigarette only to afterwards tell them that they should avoid smoking

>>73455532
he just wanted to reassure you that he's cool with your decision, my nigga

>>73455359
Now this sounds like it has very little to do Sensation, the object just happened to be the trigger for something that isn't really related to its physical attributes. Also the "beautiful" valuation took a whole different meaning, it sounds like it came from thinking instead since you are praising its structure.

>>73455386
>I've noticed some interesting patterns within your speech. Could it possibly be that you're concealing your identity by speaking in a modified manner?
I never had an identity in those threads, but it's certainly not my first time posting.
Been in this general ever since its origins. Guess it's what anons call a "shadow regular".
>Si is an abstract function
Well, how do I put this?
I will agree that the dictionary definition of abstraction is effectively the major aspect of introversion so it would be always correct to say introverts are using their functions in an abstract fashion. But I gotta nitpick anyway because the quote I used before isn't talking about this definition.
>(not to be confused with an abstracted function, which is speaking to the differentiation of said function, as you said.)
In other words, I think he was talking about this when he started explaning the difference between concrete and abstract sensation. He also does it with intuition:
>Concrete and abstract forms of intuition may be distinguished according to the degree of participation on the part of sensation. Concrete intuition carries perceptions which are concerned with the actuality of things, while abstract intuition transmits the perceptions of ideational associations. Concrete intuition is a reactive process, since it follows directly from the given circumstances; whereas abstract intuition, like abstract sensation, necessitates a certain element of direction, an act of will or a purpose.
It's very much specified we aren't talking about extraverts or introverts, but rather how much intuition is differentiated from sensation here.

>>73455452
Has been done before, if you want to take Von Franz's word for it.
Apparently Hitler was this guy who could exploit people's inferior functions depending on his public during speeches.

>>73452494
>your type
ISTP
>what is the most important thing in your life
There's none
>what is the most important part of your identity
Humor
>what is the most important desire you posess
To feel useful
>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
2nd, probably it's the only thing that really identifies me

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>>73452494
>your type
ISFP
>what is the most important thing in your life
having my limbs intact
>what is the most important part of your identity
not being physically disabled
>what is the most important desire you posess
to truly connect with someone else
>do you wish it was a different answer?
only the desire one

>>73455452
>imagine if there are people who are very well versed in typology, who have also mastered the art of communicating with the different types, who can then use this deviousness to manipulate people for selfish purposes. or somethin
what do you have against rxy

>>73455571
perhaps hitler was just, extremely charismatic and a gifted manipulator by nature.
im wondering if like, theres a more linguistic and intellectual approach to mind control. maybe the intelligence agencies are mastering those types of things

>>73455659
You can't have something that works for all types at once as they cover each other weaknesses, but it's definitely possible to target a certain demographic.
For instance, you should get into speculative arguments with intuitives or they will likely be able to spot any attempts at trying to force a certain vision. You just slap then with the Facts(TM) as they tend to not be fully aware of them, or expect somebody else to do this job.

>>73455712
>you should get
*shouldn't

>>73455712
some guy on /x/ once mentioned typology being used in algoritms on various websites. I cant verify if that's true, but it would not surprise me, now i dont know if theyre used for any malicious intent. but imagine IF.

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>>73452494
>>your type
INTJ
>>what is the most important thing in your life
I don't know how I'd evaluate this.
>>what is the most important part of your identity
I guess it's the types of unchangeable preferences that constrain me in a way that I don't even mind, shaping what's defined as identity.
>>what is the most important desire you posess
Seems like all I'd want is already addressed by how the world is. So maybe it's to poke around and to see what's not there.
>>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
I've barely scraped enough tangibility to get these answers out.

>>73455452
I'd argue whoever strongly fixates on doing this in this way has mastered nothing at all in there.

>>73455532
It may be fun to think of it as a self-signaling tribal-ritualistic vibe check to get you at ease of communication.
>are you sharing the bearing of the cross of nicotine addiction with me?
>no? Good, good, I shall reveal to you my opinion that you don't need the types of terrible challenges that I face

>>73455731
>typology being used in algoritms on various websites. I cant verify if that's true
You may be interested to see it's easy to do >>73452494
> https://pastebin.com/0jkuLMkc
Identifying specific people by writing styles, recurring keywords and habits is more worrying, to be honest.

>>73455731
>IF
I wouldn't be surprised that somebody learned sites like 4chan attract introverts, intuitives and thinkers and tried to abuse inferior Fe/Se insecurities to push certain narratives

>>73455752
>Is MBTI Fake And Gay?
Fake? Typology can't be fake. You can split people in categories, just gotta decide which ones are meaningful.
Gay? Yes, obviously.

>>73452494
>new thread every 2 days
we're back up to speed boys
>>73455532
he might feel slightly ashamed, people tend to feel bad when their choices aren't shared by the group around them, and cigarettes are literally bad for you
>>73455731
i feel like i've seen them try to do this by injecting flowery bullshit into my recommendations. i think it's important now more than ever for the individual to take control over what they genuinely like VS their natural preferences

>>73456034
>what they genuinely like VS their natural preferences
What do you mean here? What'd be the difference?

>>73456067
some things are not natural preferences at first, like certain foods you have to get used to and that's a conscious effort, and if you had just decided that you only like foods that immediately please your system then you would just be eating chicken tendies for the rest of your life. which is your choice but there's potentially more to life for you than that.

>>73455559
Well, that would explain why you feel like an amalgam of several different posters at once who are all trying to pretend that they're someone else.
>It's very much specified we aren't talking about extraverts or introverts
I'm not talking about extroverts or introverts either.

The thing that is specified is that we're not talking about types, we're talking directly about functions. Jung does not refer to functions as introverted or extroverted. He refers to them as concrete and abstract as a replacement because extroversion and introversion are terms that are used to describe the attitude associated with a person. Attitudes are not associated with functions because functions do not have attitudes. People do.
The concept of concrete and abstract are more nuanced versions of attitudes that are intended to be applied directly to the function. Something that is abstract is something that is not related to other things, it has been divorced from those other things. And that is the exact definition of the subjective factor, which the introverted functions/types use. Abstraction is the process by which subjective factors are created. And concretism is the process by which objective factors are allowed to exist as singular whole entities.

To make the whole idea even more concise and clear. You wouldn't say "that is an introverted idea" (this is not the same as "that is an idea by an introverted person") you would say "that is an abstract idea". These two terms don't mean the same exact thing, and I feel like that's what you may think what I am trying to say, but it's not. An easier way to understand it would be to say "abstract and introversion are both referring to the subjective factor in different contexts."

Subjective = abstract, introvert
Objective = concrete, extrovert
This is what I am saying.

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>>73453067
>prev thread
oh. it was midnight and i searched desuarchive for 'mbti' in the subject. apparently it excluded 'MBTI', '/mbti/' and '/MBTI/', cucking my research.

>>73453698
fertilize 'er? i don't even know her

>>73454370
my Se and Si scores have always been really close. if i had to put a finger on how they're different (if i'm even slightly close to guessing which is which, and not mixing them up), i would say that Se is in charge of cataloguing observable objects and their properties; objects being anything from a bowling ball to the moisture in my palm to the hunger in my stomach to the vague feeling that something is very wrong with the person selling me griptape and that i should leave immediately.

i would say Si is more in charge of the properties of these things and the reactions they produce; Si would look at the bowling ball in my hand and the moisture in my palm and almost create a ranked list of relevant properties, and extrapolate possible reactions between them, e.g., i might drop this bowling ball because the moisture lubes my grip. for Se we have:
Ball
-heavy
-round
-slick
-concave holes

Hand
-me
-tool
-contortable
-moist

Si ranks those in relevance to possible reactions.
SLICK+WET = LOOSE GRIP
HEAVY + LOOSE GRIP = DROPPED BALL

i know it sounds just a bit like intuition, but this sort of projected possibility is all based on fully sensory based data; i can't project anything close to this level of possibility in conceptual subjects, so i'm confidence this is a sensation based process. i haven't seen anybody mention anything close to this, though, so i wonder how you'll take it.

this is all completely based off of my observations of myself, too, not the written works of typologists, which is funny and a pretty sensory thing to do, kek.

>>73456195
>"abstract and introversion are both referring to the subjective factor in different contexts."
I don't think that was the point of the quotes.

You seem to believe only introverts would make use or mainly be interested in the abstract form of a function, that's what I can't agree with. It's specified that the difference between concrete and abstract in this context is about differentiation of the function, also concrete forms are reactive while the abstract forms imply a certain direction or purpose.
That leaves us with an absurd conclusion: introverts would be humans with more free will, while extraverts are closer to automations.

What I believe Jung was saying boils down to stating sensation types are the ones who can use both concrete and abstract sensation, while the other types, as a result of differentiating another function instead, cannot. They will only know Sensation as concrete.

In other words, Jung word salad strikes back once more.
He could have used "pure/mixed" or any other dichotomy, but he had to pick them terms already used to describe introverted/extraverted tendencies, of course.

>>73452765
Yes, I just answered all the ones in the OP because they are quite thought-provoking, but it's too much effort to actually turn that into words understandable to others so I'm not gonna post it.

>>73452907
>Wait, wha? TFW your mock INFP flowery nonsensical satire is accidentally GOOD?? Did that just happen?
Aw, so it was just satire? :( I mean I half suspected it but also not really. I hope you don't feel misunderstood lol. I am just kind of chuuni so I could see myself posting like that non-ironically if I didn't feel shame so intensely...

But I mean yeah, I liked the poem. It still seems to me like it took a fair bit of effort to write, if nothing else, assuming you didn't just use CheatGPT. Maybe my standards are just low, I do tend to enjoy some pretty cheesy song lyrics sometimes too...

>I feel that way more often than not.
Good to know I'm not alone! Sometimes I am amazed by how wise ancient people used to be.

>I don't think that *our* personal discovery is cheapened by learning what was already known and forgotten.
I suppose I might just be extremely egotistic, but I feel like it if it's not something I came up with on my own or at least put my own spin on, then it's not very meaningful. Or maybe I am imaging discovery incorrectly... it is not as though simply reading wisdom in a book makes you enlightened, you still need that moment of realization that ties things back to your own experience before things really "click". Yeah... perhaps it is more personal than I had imagined, after all. Thank you, I believe this was a helpful thought exercise for me.

>Who do you assume I am?
I thought you were INFPrince. But I see, that's as good a motivation as any, I suppose. I should try new things more often, perhaps I can discover some truth too...

>Is this H?
Uhh, by H you don't actually mean W, r-right? I friggin' hope not. But no, I am not H.

>>73455752
I can understand the entirety of your post

You are getting sloppy

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>>73453873
i think ordering them in anyway is arbitrary, but i dont care enough to push for people to stop. i think people can double up on judgement or presecption too. but like i said it barely matters. i think physiological types are most entertaining- and thats all theyre really good for- when applied to anything other than people. mbti is the training wheels of psychological and psychological is the training wheels of life. i mean really have you ever met someone "into psychological" who wasnt an terminal autist or a bpdemon? the fact the subject even exists is a tragedy.
>>73456334
why not ctrl f?
you explained Se/Si really well.
i think the problem people have is that it seems too similar to intuition, but really that makes sense. if you think of the unconscious as a place then the functions that interact with it would be "physical". like when youre dreaming you are interacting with the world with N and are tethered to terra firma by S. they do the same thing just in different places.
thats what i think anyway.

>>73452494
>>your type
ENTP
>>what is the most important thing in your life
My dogs. I love them, and they love me. I only get them 50% of the time since the ex and I split custody.
>>what is the most important part of your identity
My discernment. I impose it on everything I'm involved with, from cooking to engineering. It must be beautiful in some way, or it wasn't worth the effort.
>>what is the most important desire you possess
A relationship, if that weren't obvious from the fact I'm on r9k. I had a long-lasting one before, and it made me happy and really helped me become a better person. I was able to actually project myself and do good for other people. Now that I'm single again, I spend all my energy coping with the loneliness.
>>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
Wasn't close. The answers are fine. Obviously, I wish the desire was something easier to acquire.

>>73457028
>why not ctrl+f
in desuarchive? i don't follow.

sensing and intuition aren't too different, it's just a matter of medium, from how i see it. if i sculpt with marble and you sculpt with clay, the actions you take in the process of sculpting are wildly different because each medium is wildly different, but the process itself is still the same action.

>>73452907
so you just satire bullied me
rude

>>73457050
More like you sculpt with clay and I am thinking about how sculpting is an enlightening experience and should be added in schools.

>>73457166
wow, nice one! you have a real knack for turning symbolic word pictures into a flat correlative statement! have you considered making a career out of violently un-subtle political cartoons?

>>73457198
It was a reference actually

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>>73457207
never count on me to get a reference, ever. that does make me wonder though, why are references so popular in modern conversation? it feels like people treat it as a form of wittiness but i can't see why.

>your type
>what value do you place on referential humor

>>73457244
Well, it's a very specific reference for this bread.

>To take an irrational type: there is the intuitive who gets into a situation where he should use his inferior sensation. He becomes attracted by the idea of stonecutting or working with clay. This sort of thing very often helps inferior sensation come up in intuitives, for by such means they may get in touch with outer purpose or reason, with some kind of concrete material, with matter. He will, perhaps, mold something in clay--say, a very helpless looking, childish statue of an animal. Then he experiences something improving in himself, but immediately--like an eagle--intuition pounces on it and says: "This is it, that's what should be introduced into all the schools," and away he goes into his intuition again, into all the possibilities of clay molding, what could be done with it in the education of humanity, what it would include, and how it is the key to the experience of the godhead. The intuitive always brings in the whole world. But the one thing that is not considered is the molding of another figure!
From the book on inferior functions

>>73457050
>in desuarchive
i misunderstood.
>it's just a matter of medium
i agree.
>referential humor
lazy shit. it can be done cleverly but none does it like that.
>>73457287
yeah that hits close to home.

>>73456334
chuck
-heavy
-slick
-concave holes
-tool
-contortable
-moist

>>73455609
Isfps are adorable! ^_^
I wish I had an isfp in my life

>>73454474
Anonzzle is either female or turned feminine at a very young age by her mother.

Turbie is a female.
Homu is a boy.

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>>73457287
when i read books, i rarely remember direct quotes. even if i read that yesterday, i doubt it'd have connected. i digest the information down to the most compact possible summary of said information. possibly because that digestion is needed to understand the words to begin with, possibly because it creates a more efficient system for accessing memories. i read psychological types and a lot of articles, but if 'the book on inferior functions' isn't psychological types, then i haven't read it to begin with; it doesn't sound like jung's writing, though.
that definitely helps describe why intuitive can be so ditzy all the time, kek, well written piece.

is it socially expected that i apologize for being snappy earlier? i almost posted without mentioning because i assumed that you knowing that i have more information that de-legitimizes the original catalyst for the post, (being that i thought you were just being retarded), and having more context wouldn't have done it. but i'm now guessing that probably is a very unsafe assumption.

>>73457335
kek holy shit. good example of how Ne draws correlations between things that are unrelated through minor similarities and sensing could receive the same information a hundred times and never end at Ne's conclusion.
are the vast majority of physical adjectives sex xd related, or did i just make unlucky picks?

>>73457416
kek a lot are prolly related but you really got unlucky with concave holes and moist

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>>73452907
Having fun, are we? I didn't suspect it was you until the Taiga picture, but that was a hilarious larp. Brings back memories of ESTP car mechanic or whatever that was called.

>>73457455
honestly i'm confused why they left out 'round'. probably due to obesity being everywhere, but there's a lot of round things that are sexxdd, more than tool, which i can only imagine referring to a dick, which i don't have, which makes the property list a little ill-planned.

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>>73457416
>but if 'the book on inferior functions' isn't psychological types, then i haven't read it to begin with; it doesn't sound like jung's writing, though.
It's not Jung, but it's heavily based on it. That's Marie-Louise Von Franz, she studied under him.
>is it socially expected that i apologize for being snappy earlier?
It's 4chan, most people really don't mind.

>>73457519
i know it's 4chan, but i'm asking in general. partially for curiosity, partially because half the niggers who post here will whine and moan about the slightest level of abrasive speech because their skulls still haven't fused entirely and they're afraid someone might say something mean enough that it will pierce their head's soft spot and kill them instantly.

>>73457519
also, do you have a link to a PDF of the book? i might take a look. i like her way of describing things. and why are the pictures on the front of ogre faced bald men

>>73457543
>and why are the pictures on the front of ogre faced bald men
Good question. I also don't know what the hell this cover is supposed to be
https://dokumen.pub/qdownload/lectures-on-jungs-typology-9780882140025.html

>>73457519
centaur on the left
breeder in the middle
infj-a on the right

>>73457605
INFJ-A is canonically hot, though

>>73455609
Isfps are repulsive! >:(
I wish to never meet an isfp in my life

>>73457519
The single most quotable MBTI-related book ever.

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>>73452494
>type
ISTP
>most important thing in your life
Self-sufficiency
>most important part of your identity
Never caving
>most important desire you possess
Survival
>was it a close competition
No
>do you wish it was a different answer
No

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>>INFJ
>>what is the most important thing in your life
There are no important things in my life, anybody that I love, any possesion, activity, health, or anything.
Maybe the most important thing in my life is the fact that I have a house to stay and food on the table, not much more. Or maybe is my grandma who has always been a kind person.
>>what is the most important part of your identity
Kindness, dreams, criticism of the world. (Hard question and very ambiguous.)
>>what is the most important desire you posess
Desire of my own wellbeing. Ambition to make a change in the world. Sexual desire for men. The wish to make my dreams and visions a reality.
>>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
I wish I had a "most important part in my life".

>>73457623
be nice to isfp-san >:(

>>73457367
:)
>>73457623
what the FUCK is wrong with you
>all these words
>not original

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>>73456784
>I am just kind of chuuni so I could see myself posting like that non-ironically if I didn't feel shame so intensely...
I want to say just go for it, but I understand. I'd probably feel the same way if I was posting something 'real' and if it meant something to me.

>It still seems to me like it took a fair bit of effort to write
Pfft. They're just words. You know though, it raises an interesting question; does knowing that something isn't 'real' take away from what you have taken away? It reminds me of that really popular picture almost every boomer had in their home of the guy sitting at a table with a crumby half loaf of bread and his bible, and he's like tilting his head down and is super appreciative of what he has even though it's meager and the furniture is all shoddy. *looks up pic and finds it* But the guy was just an actor pulled in for a photo opportunity for like 10 dollars, and he was actually known to be the town drunk and kind of an asshole. Does knowing this take away from the meaning people find in the picture/painting? If the meaning someone took away from it was a deeper appreciation and reminder to be grateful, does that get ruined once the person knows that the source material was staged? What is art? Is art something that must be true to itself, or is it something that evokes an experience? Or both or what?

>Sometimes I am amazed by how wise ancient people used to be.
Indeed. Sometimes you almost get the impression that we've gone backwards since then. To read some of the problems and personal struggles people experienced back then is almost no different than today, but it seems like they were more equipped to deal with it without the many distractions we have today obstructing us.

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>>73456784
>it is not as though simply reading wisdom in a book makes you enlightened, you still need that moment of realization that ties things back to your own experience before things really "click".
Yeah, exactly. It's easy enough to read something and know it on that type of cognitive level, but it takes that personal experience to know it on a deeper level where you start to incorporate it into the core of your being. There's a lot of times where I read something and I understand it, but I don't understand it with that much more important depth until later when it clicks into place like you said, and then it's "oh, now I really Know it and only sort of thought I did before" even though the before wasn't exactly 'wrong' but rather incomplete.

Stoicism is a good example. The concepts are incredibly simple. Stupid simple. Anyone can read it and say "of course, this is all obvious. This isn't that impactful or meaningful". But the whole point is that Stoicism is only 1 part knowledge and 99 parts practice. It's not enough to know something like that, you have to make it a part of yourself before you get it -- before it imparts its wisdom to you and improves your life in an incredible way. You have to embody the lessons. What is wisdom worth if it's something you only known how to repeat linguistically, but aren't living and being? And that can take years of cultivating. Easy to know, but hard to understand on that deep, experiential level.

>I thought you were INFPrince.
I wasn't going for that. I regret the resemblance. I got the 'quintessence' inspiration from him, but he's not arrogant or abrasive like that.

>I should try new things more often, perhaps I can discover some truth too...
That's often how it's done, isn't it? Trying something we've not yet done. Questioning something we think we already know.

>Uhh, by H you don't actually mean W, r-right? But no, I am not H.
y-yes. Sorry for getting you two confused. Thanks for talking and sharing.

>>73456334
>SLICK+WET = LOOSE GRIP
>HEAVY + LOOSE GRIP = DROPPED BALL
that sounds like Se sending the surroundings to Ti and the brain goes into Ti-Ni mode

>>73454474
Incredibly based and correct.

"I don't understand what the big deal is. why do people get so angry about cheating? social conventions confuse me" - chuck when she cheats on her first bf

what are the regs iqs

>>73457416
>is it socially expected that i apologize for being snappy earlier?
yeah

>>73459114
all not above midwit level

>>73459163
homuanon has a very high iq

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>>73458451
i know that it sounds like that, but i don't believe it is. possibly Ti, but not Ni; this is all inherent encoded data to every object. the kind of thing i would observe as passively as color. would you say it's Ti-Ni to notice something is yellow?
remember that everything written in words seems more intuitive than it is.

>>73458805
solid bait, that actually made me pretty angry. there's a pretty wide berth between the confusion of communicating intent and breaking an agreement. when you enter a relationship, you agree to support each other and to be loyal to each other. i understand that concept just fine. if i ever dated i'd probably end up offending my significant other frequently due to retardation, but it would never be something blatantly wrong or dishonest or cruel.

here's a video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R-pZPF54zw

>>73459302
lol i was jk

>>73459355
i know. the point of that sort of joke is to rile your target up for your own amusement. why not commit to that? do you not actually enjoy causing other people displeasure? at least stick to your guns when an aggravating joke aggravates, as intended. otherwise it's both unfunny and slightly pathetic.

almost all posts here are insufferable to read

it gets less insufferable when you take it less seriously

Even the theorydumps?

those are bullshits from losers unable to cope with 16p being simple and successful

>>73459114
idk specific numbers but

>significantly above average: homuanon, intifemboi
>above average: infj-a, enfj-senpai, turbie, prince and his gf
>average: sophie, isfp sophie hater, megumin, apollo, chuck, gus
>below average: breeder, centaur
>significantly below average: none

translation
>significantly above average:
102
>>above average:
101
>>average:
100

>>73458255
>I'd probably feel the same way if I was posting something 'real'
Yeah, now that I think back on it, I've posted sort of like that on 4chan before, but the only reason I was able to is that I also didn't consider it "real".

>Pfft. They're just words.
Well it'd still be hard for me to write something like that lol. But that's just me, you can feel however you want about it! The question about art is a good one, it's something I've pondered on a number of occasions, but I never came to a definitive conclusion. I would say I lean towards "both"--there's value in art being true to itself, and in what it evokes, and so I do feel as though finding out something isn't "real" takes away from the piece, although only a tiny bit. I do think most of the value is in what it makes you experience, just not all of it. But of course this is different for everyone, people enjoy art for all sorts of reasons.

>almost get the impression that we've gone backwards
Yup, at times I get that impression too. We have become immeasurably smart, but oh so unwise. Perhaps the pendulum will start to swing the other way soon, if we don't distract ourselves to death first.

>>73458273
>The concepts are incredibly simple. Stupid simple.
That's the worst of both worlds for someone like me, who struggles with the "experiential" kind of knowledge. Complex concept + easy implementation is much simpler to handle than the opposite for me. But yeah, the Stoics are pretty based for actually practicing what they preach. BTFOing navel-gazing intuitards since ancient Greece...

>I wasn't going for that. I regret the resemblance.
Ah sorry, I hope you don't feel too bad about that! I was probably the only one who mistook you two anyways.

>That's often how it's done, isn't it?
Sure is... I need to rekindle my Ne...

>y-yes. Sorry for getting you two confused.
Errrm, I hate to say this but now I'm even more confused, haha... Does the "y-yes" mean you *don't* mean W? I h-hope so...

using big fancy words means you are smart

>>73459633
no infp is intelligent fake organization of your chart

Do you think chuck will date me if turbie and I don't work out?

>>73459302
I meant you used your Se to observe, Ti-Ni to imagine the most likely possibility that might happen

>>73460179
it wasn't a process of imagination, though. there were no words or mental images. i know what it feels like to go into my mind and project possible outcomes; i do it all the time, trying to predict how my post could be received here. there's ideation and processing in that action. what i describe has no ideation, visualization, or process; it's simply known and adapted to immediately, the same way you would recover your balance or instinctively catch something you dropped.

>>73460214
>the same way you would recover your balance or instinctively catch something you dropped.
dunno man, but I don't think this has to do with Si (some retard once said it has to do with Se but that's not it either) I think it has to do with the person than that person's functions

>>73460275
a person takes actions through functions. you can't separate the two.

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>Someone asks whether a certain type or functions would indicate a certain type of behavior
>Some retard always says something about how mbti or cognitive functions has nothing to do with behavior
Listen here. This whole thing is based on stereotypes. There is a reason this is considered pseudoscience.
Stereotypes are all typology is. So obviously certain functions or types are going to have stereotypical sorts of behavior.
Don't pretend to be clever. Jung was a retarded occultist.

>>73460298
written like an obnoxious Ti fag

>>73460298
>Don't pretend to be clever. Jung was a retarded occultist.
wasn't trying to be a smartass, was saying that acting on reflexes and trying to catch something has nothing to do with functions. jesus, I bet you think Si users have strong memory

Is it normal to be Fe inf but also get irritated when someone openly acts like an ass? Ig I just get irritated cause I don't get what they're trying to get by being an asshole exactly.

>>73460357
10 bucks you were the initial asshole but are too autistic to realize that over and over again

>>73460365
Funnily enough, I wasn't talking about a real experience. There was a scene in a show I watched where someone began insisting that a friend of theirs smells, FOR NO REASON, like he didn't even try to give a solution. And when someone else denied that (probably to help the friend being shat on), the first person insisted that they stunk, once again, offered no solution and showed no remorse. And remembering that scene reminds me of people and that I can imagine someone irl doing this for no reason as well.

>>73460423
see it applies here
somehow in your mind the smelly person is the victim rather than the perpetrator
kill all inf Fe users

>>73460365
I'll take those 10 bucks now, thank you.

>>73460447
you will get 10 kicks in the ass instead weirdo

>>73460445
>smelly person is the victim
wouldn't be a victim if the asshole who insulted him offered a solution like "Hey bud, you kinda reek, go take a bath." or shit like that. But no, he just insulted him and doubled down.

Where the Jungposters when we need them. Alright fuck it, I will do it myself.

>>73460289
It's more meta than that. The same exact actions can be motivated by entirely different functions. They are psychological constructs, not organs.

>>73460298
>>Some retard always says something about how mbti or cognitive functions has nothing to do with behavior
It is what it is. Guess I just turned in the Se type now.
Only looking at the behavior without digging deeper in the motivations and perspective behind it doesn't offer any useful info for typing.

>>73460357
Fe inf isn't a lack of Feeling, it's a retarded version of it. Eventually it does its thing.

>>73460455
chickening out now that you've been proven wrong?

>>73460465
>be stinky asshole assaulting others sense of smell everywhere you go
>get called out
yeah let me get my tiny violin out.

>>73460298
>This whole thing is based on stereotypes.
stereotypes are the product of this
are you based off the shit you excrete? i mean well it really reads like this but that's probably not the case
>There is a reason this is considered pseudoscience.
appeal to external opinion
>Stereotypes are all typology is. So obviously
non sequitur
>certain functions or types are going to have stereotypical sorts of behavior
functions and types aren't people with the behaviours

>>73460479
you are only "right" in your mind freak
at least istps sensing keeps them grounded in reality

>>73460474
>It's more meta than that. The same exact actions can be motivated by entirely different functions. They are psychological constructs, not organs.
yeah, fair and i agree, but i am saying that i do what i do via sensing, and you're challenging that. the statement you just made supports both sides equally, and i'd know my psyche better than you would.

>>73460502
wtf does that even mean? you made an accusation, your accusation was proven wrong, and you're still right in your twisted mind? Even Hitler made more sense

>>73460533
Hitler should have gone for the INTPs instead.

I love how everyone just assumes you're an INTP by existing here, yet hate that very type

>>73460508
"Via sensing" doesn't get the right idea across since the function does not do actions in itself. Let's say there is a difference between sense organs and the function of sensation as something that "values" raw sense perceptions and their intensity, otherwise you could easily argue everything is sensation unless it happens entirely in your mind.

>>73460583
there are good ones who have gotten some sense smacked into them somewhere during their lives but the ones that have not are a scourge upon our planet earth

>>73460583
>self hating on 4chan
Yeah what else is new

How does Te exactly differ from Ti? is Ti more inclined into believing psedoscience?

>>73460688
Actually yes, as long the theory and the premises behind it hold, Ti isn't likely to object. Unlike Te, who would be more inclined to dismiss a sound idea on the basis of being unproven.

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>>73459633
How do I help cultivate Homu and INTJfemboi's intelligence? I want to make them even better but I feel like I'm too dumb myself to be a good influence. Like as mummy says, they need to be spending time with real intellectuals.

>>73456334
There's more tools but I find using * and | very useful when I'm using desuarchive. Like if you use chu* it brings up everything beginning with chu like chud or chump, and intp | infp brings up every post containing intp or infp instead of only posts that contain both. another thing to look out for is accentally excluding words by putting a - in front of them. Happy hunting!

Also when I search thread question and mbti in the subject I get this from 2017
https://desuarchive.org/r9k/thread/39882715/
I wonder if that discord is still active, but I'm too much of a coward to go anywhere near it even though I doubt that it is.

>>73460589
>sensing does not do actions in itself
is that from an authority, or an opinion? do you think intuition does not take actions either, where intuition/sensation are passive and thinking/feeling are active? if that's the case, why include Ne/Ni in your proposed substitution, and if it's not, why would sensing be the ONLY function that does not take actions?

>>73460837
oh, that is a useful tool. thanks for doing a better search.

>>73448440
Couldn't reply before the archiving. So the two auxiliaries are basically equal like wings on a plane according to jung?

>>73460869
You are mistaking me for another anon, I did not speak of intuition. But to answer your questions...

>is that from an authority, or an opinion?
There isn't a quote or anything that directly argues against this, but functions are defined as more abstract than organs or a specific node in your brain.

Looking at an object with your eyes isn't doing something via the sensation function, for instance.
We only speak of Sensation when the raw physical attributes of said object are the focus of your conscious activity. If instead you are focusing on technical aspects during your observation, then we would say Thinking is driving the conscious activity. You certainly don't become blind when sensation is out of focus all of a sudden.

>>73461105
Yes.

Personally I think that's a very ideal case however, you are definitely more likely to see only one auxiliary function and something that's just slightly above an inferior IMHO

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>>73460869
Also if you just want OPs you can tick the Only Opening Posts box on the right, and also sort old to new, that's how we know that /mbti/ goes back further than that archive at least records.

You could probably do some real archaeology back there, I see allusions to even older threads and /mbti/ already being an r9k tradition in 2012. Unfortunately most of the images are broken, maybe some other website has them though. Also threads were a lot less frequent, and had far fewer posters than they do now, but I wonder if there's any anons here that posted in those old threads.
https://desuarchive.org/r9k/search/text/mbti/type/op/order/asc/

I was going to say that modern /mbti/ probably began with the inclusion of previous thread in 2019, but that phrase seems to have been only used once in all of 2020 before coming back in 2021 so I suppose by that metric the current run started here
https://desuarchive.org/r9k/thread/61920272/
But for some reason there was no thread questions in that period, so you weren't far off in that having thread questions only became a thing in the first half of 2021.
>It's been 2 years since I scrolled through the mbti threads on crystal cafe
Good times, I wish they'd post more often so I could steal their data and have it be worth updating.

>>73461476
>boys image board is dominated by INTP
>girls image board is dominated by INFP
As it should be

>>73460837
>>73461476
NTA but thanks, that's pretty useful, I didn't know about using | . Is there a way to search through posts inside the /mbti/ general, though? Like, if I put "mbti" in the Subject field and another term in the Search field, it can only find OPs with that term rather than replies. If I tick "Only Reply Posts" it just doesn't find anything.

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If taking risks in life are so important, then how do you convince conflict avoidant types like INFPs to dive into anything risky?

>>73461625
Nothing that I've managed to find. As far as I can tell clicking Only Reply posts does literally nothing.

>>73461635
>how do you convince
you can't, the best you can do is dangle a shiny carrot in front of their faces and watch them frantically contemplate

>>73461689
I see, that's a shame. Would have been pretty useful

Okay, cool, yeah, let's all shack up! Let's all gather around this "parasocial campfire" or whatever FAGGOT SHIT you wanna call it. Let's all engage in our own autistic approximation of whatever the fuck "introverted sensing" is supposed to mean, let's all disassociate from any real confrontation in our lives and pretend to be like CUTE JUNG FAIRIES on the internet and find increasingly elaborate defense mechanisms and ways to resent 16p or IEIE until we are in OUR 30s with NOTHING going on in our lives, doo doo doo doo, NIHILISM with PINK PASTEL COLORS!!! COMFY!!! SO FUCKING COMFY!!! ANON-SAN~!! WE ARE SO CHRONICALLY FUCKED INTO SUBMISSION BY MBTI THAT WE SHOULD JUST ALL CURL UP INTO A WARM LITTLE BLANKEY OF CONSTANT INTERNET ENTERTAINMENT BECAUSE EMULATING SOMETHING LIKE A BABY INSIDE OF THE HUM OF A MOTHER'S WOMB IS THE ONLY WAY TO RELIVE THE ONLY NORMAL AND HAPPY TIME THAT SEEMINGLY EVER EXISTED IN OUR AUTISM-WROUGHT LIVES, ANON-SAN, WE BOTH DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT ANYTHING SO THERE'S NO POINT IN HAVING INHIBITIONS OR DIGNITY ANON-SAN~~ HAHA ANON-SAN LET'S SIT IN A MUSKY ROOM WITH EMPTY ENERGY DRINK CANS EVERYWHERE AND ANTS CRAWLING THROUGH OUR WIRY GREASY LEG HAIR AND ACT LIKE A FUCKING PSYCHOLOGIST FAGGOT WITH ME ANON-SAN~~ GIVE UP WITH ME ANON!!!! GIVE UP AND BE A HOPELESS FREAK LIKE ME ANON!!! WHAT'S THAT? WHAT DO I THINK ABOUT BEING A LOSER??? IT'S FUNNY XDDDD

>>73461879
not gonna llie, this might be the best post i've seen on this general this month

>>73461879
I feel personally attacked anon, why do this to me?

Come chill /mbti/ bros
TmbpHFv5U3

>>73461635
why would i care what other people think is important?
t.INFP

>>73452494
>your type
ENTP
>what is the most important thing in your life
idk
>what is the most important part of your identity
idk
>what is the most important desire you posess
idk
>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
I really have no idea. These overly personal questions are too difficult to answer.

>>73461635
>conflict avoidant types like INFPs
I thought Fi doms were more likely to do reckless things over their unwillingness to look at the logic of a situation.

>>73460688
Te users are the ones that demand sources for everything.

>>73461635
A lot of us need to battle a partitioned tertiary. This has been a major focus of some mushroom trips as I try to unravel my programming, much of which seems born of a hopeless relation to problem solving, covering Se with Ne cope to both forge and keep the Fi Te axis from short circuiting due to the conflict between heart and cold solution. INxP are results oriented. That's why many can't get out of bed without good reason. I can't easily triangulate Ni amidst the noise of considerations, often for others, impacting my ability to take care of myself and them. I don't do either well because I need direction, seemingly in the form of intensive self parenting to address the current expectation that others recognize my needs because that process both to identify and speak up was stunted

I am trying to get more in touch with Sensation as I seem mutable based on things like bodily needs and temperature and distracting or irritating noises. I think I shoved it all down because of dependency to weak Ni parents that tought me no good comes from engaging in their head in the sand lotto scratching celebrity rat race - no good comes from pointing any of it out, so instead I learned to sympathize with people's darkness at my own expense, and then it all split for the first time when my brain aligned long enough for me to realize my dad wasn't the good guy.

I am only truly recognizing at 28 that I have been surrounded by narcissistic dynamics all my life. Putting label to my dad and his perpetually arguing parents is easy enough, but suspecting my mom too gives me chills and makes me feel blindsided and guilty because of her love. But I see enough of these tendencies within myself. I suspect I can't effectively Think because the Feeling gets lost down the chain, trapped tight. Last night I tried some of the TRE stuff discussed last thread and the emotion released moved up to my cheeks. That made me wonder if it needs release to reach the brain to properly decode.

>>73462595
You're not going to be your father, Prince.

>>73461635
Why is taking risks in life important?
Sounds made up

>>73463029
Because life itself is a risk, everyday you have a chance to die, there is nothing you can do to prevent this. Successful risk taking is what improves and moves forward society, Just sitting around and being "safe" in your house is itself a risk because you end up alone, without skills, and childless.
It is important to take risks in order to succeed at life itself.

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>>73459930
What about this chart then?

>>73463312
It's absolutely made up bullshit

>>73463329
How do you know about that?

>>73463351
How do you know that it isn't?

>>73463364
I don't. I just asked you about another chart.

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YO SUP NIGGERS. I got permabanned by jannies for trolling too hard

>>73452494
>your type
INTJ
>what is the most important thing in your life
My cat
>what is the most important part of your identity
My adidas tracksuit
>what is the most important desire you posess
a Toyota AE86 Trueno
>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
Nah I'm confident in my answers

>>73459633
>average
>megumin
Mine is around 131-133, I just don't show it because I like fucking around more, its fun to act like a retard than some spastic with a stick up his ass

>>73461635
What type is Asa? INTP?

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>>73463434
Asa is the most ISTJ nigga possible

>your type
INFP
>what is the most important thing in your life
Loyal relationships of depth, mutual trust and support
Surface ones wear me out as much as loneliness, if not more
>what is the most important part of your identity
Often I doubt who I really even am, its hard to say, I value being a creative and bright force of nature
>what is the most important desire you possess
Propelling myself, and then others, into the upward spiral, or heaven if you so wish to call it
>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
As usual Im just spitballing, if I contemplated too much I would end up finding it near impossible to answer about anything relating to my internal world
>>73463051
>a situation involving exposure to danger
I guess so
Just depends on the level of risk
Gambling your life savings on black/red sure would be one, but the first words that come to mind in that scenario would be "bad decision", which risk could only replace acting as an euphemism here
>>73459633
I certainly feel really dull nowadays, like my spark is gone, and the rare moments I do spark they seem to fall into the abyss before I am able to capture them
My view of (mental) health still is a rather physical one
Isnt the flynn effect beginning to decline, if not reverse currently?
While some angles claim dysgenics as the cause, I cant help but shake my impression its due to inadequate nutrition and environmental toxicity for the most part, things like fruits having only a fraction of vitamins as in the past and such
>>73463364
It has numbers and stuff I think its a good chart
>>73463422
Still waiting on your cat sitting on or atleast besides your T-34

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>>73463506
>Still waiting on your cat sitting on or atleast besides your T-34
When I finish the model (never)

>>73456592
That's because you're not getting the whole picture. You're getting about 30% of the context with the quotes you're posting. It's not wrong, but it's not the whole truth either.
It's sort of like saying "leaves are green". Which is true, but dependent on context leaves may be different colors.

The quote(s) you've posted are speaking about a certain context, in which 'abstract' is referred to as 'differentiation'. In the same light, 'concretism' can be referred to as 'individuation'. Abstract and concrete are processes, and these processes can be done at different levels of analysis to objects and subjects. The process of abstraction is the same as the process of differentiation (separation from the whole), which is the same as the process of "introverting something". In order for something to be introverted, it MUST be abstracted. Emphasis on MUST.

The way you're saying it is making it sound like these terms have one use in one context and that one context is the one true way that it can be used. Which is incorrect, that isn't how Jung operated. In the same way you wouldn't say "I abstracted my lower functions", you would say "I differentiated my lower functions". The former is archaic (not in the Jungian sense).
>You seem to believe only introverts
No. Not what I'm saying at all. You're overly attached to the one context in which you understand these terms, the context I am speaking of is a completely different context. Your point isn't countering my point, nor is my point countering yours. I am just trying to show you that you're not seeing the whole picture.
>are the ones who can use both concrete and abstract sensation
Yes. More specifically, sensing dominants. What he's referring to is a function that has been completely abstracted, AKA differentiated, AKA the dominant function.

There is a reason the term 'abstract' was replaced with differentiation in that context.

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>>73463351
I know the "study" that it uses a source and it's both stupid and has nothing to do with IQ.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140314004517/https://psych.wisc.edu/henriques/papers/Sak.pdf

The "study" literally just searched the words "gifted" and "mbti" and recorded the types of the students that were marked as gifted in the studies they found. Then the results from that were mangled into pic related by someone else, this gifted normal ratio was then put as the "percentage in top 2% of IQ in the chart you posted because whoever made it doesn't know what a ratio is. As I've said before though INTPs will just believe anything flattering which is why these numbers will never die, despite the total geniuses column not even adding up to 50%, let alone 100.

TL:DR, how can even the most intelligent type have less than 2% of its population be in the top 2% of the population?

>>73463591
wow fraudulent te user and communist symphatizer
what would tito think

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>>73463635
I'd go for a holiday to goli otok

>type
>results https://humanbenchmark.com

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>>73463715
INFP
These are a few years old, I probably can't get anything this good nowadays.

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>>73463768
Very impressive verbal memory
I would certainly value it as one of the most important skills to possess nowadays
A Philosophy student I know got about 220+ I think
I would imagine reading intellectually stimulating text will improve that quite a bit, besides plainly requiring it in the first place
The visual memory one feels like cheating to me, I see the faint outlines after they stop being highlighted and am good at clicking the squares quickly

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I wonder what more could be explored about why it bothers me the way it does when someone gets around to doing something I suggest(ed)/encourage(d)/am passionate about, but it was however wholly or indirectly related to my influence.
A form of insecurity perhaps, by way of "What is my worth to myself if I am not of worth in the ways I strive to be to those I love?". As an extension of that, some ego matter, wanting to take/be given credit for helping them (though this may come from high standards, harsh critiques and comparisons, going unappreciated, remaining unseen for all the effort to Be --either the crestfallen feeling that what I do isn't recognized, or that it's not understood that I *need* or that's the closest semantic approximation without going into the nuance of ideal input for ideal output respect and acknowledgement to push past that result of less-than-ideal sinking feeling, to continue trying to find new ways of satisfying, solving, soaring, synchronized.)

Magician and High Priestess mastery aspirations. Wanting immediate results when and how I say, with willfully chosen Who, not waiting for the causality-domino turnaround time.

>>73463840
Thanks! Your aim trainer one is really impressive. You mentioned playing some kind of competitive vidya before arena shooters?, so I guess that's why.

IIRC I did visual memory the same way.

also laffin at "above average" category in the lil iq speculation post
>>73459633
if that's where opinion lands for what I've contributed (or what has been considered of it allittle) I'm feelin' pretty good! jej

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>>73463928
spoiIers eated..

allittle *

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>>73461879
i often wonder if i'm really trying my best to get better or if i'm intentionally spinning my wheels in the mud until i'm tired so i have an excuse to tell myself i tried.

>>73462595
i think being results oriented is a curse when dealing with the work of personal development and maturation. the healthiest way to grow is slowly and imperceptibly, so when you or i desperately try to force that process to a completion point, we end up with shoddy results, which makes us want to try again harder and faster, with even worse results, and the thing that seems the most counter productive is probably the only thing we could do to grow well.

>>73463918
b-but im anonymous..
I think pew pew shooty games appeal to the primal instinct of hunt
always was naturally good at them, although I do suck at learning maps and feel blind until sufficient exposure internalizes their themes and patterns

Goodnight Homura. I hope you have another great weekend.

>>73464115
Outcome-oriented thinking is a massive flaw. More often than not, this type of thinking will result in you backtracking. Which you highlighted in the second half of your post:
>which makes us want to try again harder and faster, with even worse results

It's much more wise to be process oriented in your thinking. Your focus should be on making the correct steps. If you make the correct steps, the outcome you're desiring will eventually reach you.

As a crude example, imagine a staircase. Your goal is to reach the top of the staircase. If you're oriented to the outcome, you'll take the first step, look to the top of the staircase and see that it's still really far away. Then you'll believe you failed, due to not reaching the end result 'top of the staircase'. Then you'll get frustrated, get off the staircase, go back to the ground level, and take the first step again. Then you'll do this a number of times before you become exhausted and frustrated, and give up entirely.
But, if you look at that same situation from a process oriented reference point, every single step you take along that staircase is a success that compounds. Each step empowers you to take the next step, rather than each step removing energy it adds energy. This effect snowballs out of control extremely quickly, to the point where you're effectively sprinting up the staircase at full speed.

>>73464260
Yeah it feels like they get me in touch with my non-existent Se and I start to almost feel connected to my mouse. Pretty primal, by my standards.

>>73464339
Thoughts on expecting result-oriented results instead of progress-oriented results from others, not oneself?

>>73463768
Ignore the following if you meant your score might be influenced by alcohol or something

>March 2021
Only two years ago, the only thing which could *maybe* experience demonstrable decline in that time is reflexes. Reflexes peak at around 24 and then slow by around 4 ms per year for simple tasks (10 ms for more complex ones), but even then it would take more than two years for the data to clearly reflect a decline. Like if someone did the test many times at 25 and again at 35 there might be a clear mild throughline, but comparing 25 to 27 would likely be unclear and have statistical noise. The 27 could perform better if the 25 was more stressed or the 27 more rested.

As for things related to memory I don't think it's possible to clearly detect or measure decline during a two-year window in your 20s. It *might* be possible during your 70s or something (though even then it would be minor, insignificant, and require clever and highly specialized tests - on less demanding tests someone's 79 year old self will perform about the same as the 70 unless they have some cognitive impairment), but definitely not the 20s, and even then many cognitive abilities don't decline until after the average 4chan age (or they decline to an extent impossible for us to measure). Short-term memory doesn't begin its decline until around 35. So as for clearly declining on the things that site tests, you're probably looking more at the 40s. There would probably be statistical noise from 35 through 40-45 or so thanks to variables like rest levels, stress levels, simple luck, etc that prevents clear-cut trends from emerging until mid-40s.

>>73464761
This is heavily, heavily dependent on context. Sometimes it's perfectly acceptable, or even required. Other times, it's abhorrent and borderline malicious.

For instance, within the educational system, the outcome-oriented mindset, exemplified by grading systems, is often utilized and misused as a punitive tool against students. Consider a scenario where a student meticulously follows the correct process but makes a minor mistake, resulting in an incorrect answer. Despite having done the majority of the steps correctly, they receive a failing grade. This is where the underlying issue arises. The education system ingrains in us this incorrect interpretation of the outcome-oriented perspective, implying that as long as the final answer is correct, everything else is deemed acceptable. Even if you did the process completely incorrectly, but got the correct answer by sheer luck.
As a general rule of thumb, process-oriented thinking is superior. Being focused on doing the steps correctly will almost always result in the correct outcome. Though, it has its uses. Like if you pay a plumber to fix your toilet (outcome), and he doesn't fix your toilet even though he took the correct steps. You should probably get your money back, since he failed to do the job.
There's a bunch of reasons as to why he failed, maybe he misdiagnosed and was doing the incorrect process, albeit correctly, and actually make your problem worse.

If a person is trying to walk up some stairs, but they keep walking down the stairs, they'll never reach the top of the stairs. So it doesn't matter that the process of walking down the stairs is correct. They're going in the wrong direction, and getting further from their goal. Telling the person to focus on "walking down the stairs better" will never get them to the top of the staircase, and is borderline malicious.

TL;DR
Process-oriented thinking is superior, but nothing is perfect.

not-dying oriented bump

>your type
ENTP
>what is the most important thing in your life
I'd say my individual freedoms. I'm lonely, I'm depressed, and sometimes I feel like I have no control over anything, but then I remember that it could be worse. I could be married or with kids.
>what is the most important part of your identity
I'm an artist. I want to make a comic someday, or at least make some Patreonbux to avoid working a regular job.
>what is the most important desire you possess
I want love. I want to spread love around, and I want to feel it. I only do art out of some weird sense of altruism to my characters (I know it sounds autistic) but also to the people that might read it. I'd say my dream is to inspire people in similar ways I've been inspired before.
>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
I wish I had someone. Even a pet would be nice, but I can't have any. I saw some people mention their pets. It'd make me feel less lonely, maybe I'd be able to care for something and it'd care back.

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>Your type
>Do you believe psychopaths are at the top of the hierarchy of intelligence, aptitude, and success in this society?
>Do you believe psychopaths believe they are at the top of such a hierarchy?

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>>73463715
>ISFJ
>results https://humanbenchmark.com
Here's what I got lol. Basically unemployable.

>>73463593
You are taking the terms in an excessively general manner. The introvert abstracts in reference to the external world, but introversion isn't just a glorified synonym of abstraction in general.
In the context of differentiation of a function, being introverted means fuck all, and consequently also in the context of the concrete/abstract dichotomy used for the Sensation/Intuition quote since it's specified we are talking about something dependant on whether a function is differentiated.

>No. Not what I'm saying at all.
However, it's what logically follows from your interpretation of the quotes. Think about it for a second.

Can I think for two seconds I feel hurried

>>73462546
You got a source for that claim?

Think faster anons

turbie is a hot girl with huge breasts

I'm thinking so fast that all my other functions are inferior now. It's not a half-circle anymore, it's a fucking pacman now.

>>73466371
I'm actually not talking in general at all, I'm being excessively precise. But, I am being precise in abstracted contexts that still retain their concrete connections to the related ideas, which makes it feel like I am taking a general perspective.
The introvert abstracts, period. They abstract from the external, but they also abstract from the internal. They abstract to the purest form of abstraction. Just like the sensors may experience pure sensations, introverts may experience pure abstraction. Extroverts may not experience pure abstraction, there will always be an element of the concrete therein.

The thing I was saying about Si is that it is an abstract function, meaning it is introverted (even if the person is an extroverted type), it abstracts from other things. Not that it is an abstracted function, which is a measure of differentiation. Once more, I am NOT (caps for emphasis) talking about the differentiation of functions. I am using the term in a completely different context and you are failing to realize that, or to even make an attempt at understanding at what I am attempting to convey. It feels like you're reading 1 out of every 3 words I am saying, then just filling in the blank 2/3 with the context you're aware of and talking about, as if you and I are talking about the same thing. Which we're not.


>However, it's what logically follows from your interpretation of the quotes.
Yeah... No. Not even remotely close. I also do not place much value on these types of judgements. Just because something is 'logical', does not mean it is correct, or even useful.


As I said previously, you are overly attached to the context you've got an understanding of already. You're effectively just parroting a trivial fact that is generating no momentum or movement within the conversation.
It's like I said "Man, it sure is cold today." and your response was,
"No, the surface of the sun is 10,000 degrees, it's not cold."

You Ti types are weird.

>>73466735
>I'm being excessively precise.
More like excessively wrong.
The issue isn't even whether introverts like to abstract shit. It's how the terms are being used.
>Once more, I am NOT (caps for emphasis) talking about the differentiation of functions.
YOU are not, Jung was. We need to keep it mind if we want to discuss about this concept.
The concrete/abstract sensation(or intuition) dichotomy he introduced in those quotes was entirely based on the differentiation of the function, it doesn't matter whether a type is introverted or extraverted. They will both experience the abstract form as described in the same way, as long that's their primary(aka most differentiated) function. The example about the redness of a flower happens to both the Extraverted and Introverted Sensation types.

Now if you aren't talking about this specific concept at all, then sure. We could say that all the introverted applications of a function follow the principle of abstraction from the external world: introverted sensation couldn't give less of a shit about the objects in themselves and their relations with other objects, only specifically the reaction/impression released inside the subject(s).
If we keep following the same red flower example, what would change between the types here is only that the Extravert is attached to the "redness" attribute and might to see it in more objects even if they aren't flowers, while the Introvert focuses on what's the subjective reaction to the redness.
The latter could find a similar reaction to something that is not even red at all, but for all intents and purposes it would be the same thing in an introverted consciousness, that's where it gets weird when introverted perceiving types try to explain what the fuck they are doing.

> Just because something is 'logical', does not mean it is correct, or even useful.
I called out a "2+2=5" and you are telling me to discard math. I'm pretty sure that's not what's wrong here.

>>73466948
By the way, this is specified in the most clear way possible.
>Abstract sensation is mainly suited to the artist. Like every abstraction, it is a product of the differentiation of function: hence there is nothing primordial about it
If you think abstract sensation = introverted sensation, then automatically you are implying that extraverted sensation is the undifferentiated form termed "concrete".
Think about it for a fucking second and you will notice this contradicts the entire idea of the typology, effectively stating only introverts can differentiate functions.

>>73452494
>>your type
INTP

>>what is the most important thing in your life
porn

>>what is the most important part of your identity
lol identities are for retarded subhumans

>>what is the most important desire you posess
i yearn to learn

>>73466948
>Jung was.
For the third time now, I'm completely aware of that. But it has nothing to do with anything that I've been talking about. You have no idea what I've been trying to say, and just keep parroting unrelated quotes from Jung because they have a singular word in common. Even though you have no understanding of the context that differentiates these two concepts. It's becoming very grating, as you refuse to even acknowledge the point I've been trying to make.

>Man it's like 45 degrees, it sure is cold today!
>"Nuha, the sun is 10,000 degrees it's hot!"
>...I wasn't talking about the sun, I'm talking about here.
>"You're just wrong, [this scientist] said that the sun is 10,000 degrees. It's not cold."
Quite frankly, I don't give two shits. It's completely unrelated. You can keep talking about the differentiation of functions, but it's going to be with yourself, since you're just ignoring everything I'm saying and just talking past me. I'm not interested in the autistic parroting of trivial, unrelated facts.
For the last and final time, an abstract function is not the same concept as an abstracted function. Abstracted refers to differentiation of the function. An abstracted function has been removed from the other functions. An abstract function is a function whose purpose is to abstract, or more precise an abstracting function.
>Now if you aren't talking about this specific concept at all, then sure
Not at all. Not even a little bit. Which I have said constantly.

>>73467058
>If you think...
I believe this conversation should cease here. Zero progress has been made and I can now safely say, due to your previous post, it's because you're not even reading my posts and you're not making an attempt to understand me. I cannot foresee you making such a radical shift in your perspective that you'll actually attempt to see my perspective. You're going to stick to your singular perspective, just as you have this entire time. It's up to you, though.

>>73467367
>You have no idea what I've been trying to say
You are supposed to communicate that. Honestly I struggle to believe it's merely a coincidence that we are using "abstract sensation" in two different ways, smells like backtracking once you saw the concept is clearly not the same as the Si type.
>An abstract function is a function whose purpose is to abstract
Alright but... that simply doesn't exist. The introverted type is the one with an abstracting attitude, once again in reference to the external world. But introversion isn't a synonym of abstraction either, it could be argued that extraverts are the ones able to abstract an object from any attached subjective attribute.
Language has an extraverted bias and supposes the external world is the default frame of reference, I suppose.

*Sings a Ballad appreciating Turbie's compassionate soul and genuine demeanor*

>>73467529
I've communicated it quite clearly, even going so far as to explicitly state it in the most straight forward way possible, you just aren't putting very much effort into understanding. Which is a problem I run into very frequently with Ti types and to a slightly lesser degree, Fi types.
>Honestly I struggle
Dude, I've literally said it nonstop. How many times and different ways do I have to say "That isn't what I'm talking about." Before it gets through your thick ass skull? Even when we first started this conversation, I acknowledged what you were saying and the truth of it, AND even said that isn't what I'm talking about numerous times, you just kept ignoring it and parroting Jung. I've probably said it at least once per post.
Look, literally like my second post in this conversation: >>73455386
>I am not referring to that

>The introverted type is the one with an abstracting attitude
It's almost like you're not even reading my posts... Wait... You're literally not.
Look, I already said that: >>73456195
>... introversion are terms that are used to describe the attitude associated with a person. Attitudes are not associated with functions because functions do not have attitudes. People do.

I literally cannot be anymore clear, and you need to put in more effort. Your social skills are EXTREMELY lacking, even by 4chans standards. It should not be this difficult to move this very basic conversation forward, but you absolutely refuse to allow motion to happen that isn't perfectly in line with your perspective. It's like you only want to talk about things where you can be right. Like that one oddball teachers pet with the abnormally high GPA who has absolutely no social skills at all.

I find you ISTPs odd.

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>>73464339
outcome orientation can be good. sometimes you take the steps two at a time and get to the top faster. it's useful in problem solving when the correct process is unknown, but in delicate situations like self examination and nebulous goals like ' better', it's useless, like how you describe.

>>73466236
istp
society is a machine designed to benefit few people and make others live to facilitate that. psychopaths can be successful because they can leverage the weakness of a mechanical system made of emotional components. being psychopathic has no bearing on intelligence or aptitude in a skill though.

>>73467875
damn, is this what me and INFJ-As mega-autismo power hour spergouts look like from the outside? that's embarrassing, yeesh.

>>73467915
>damn, is this what me and INFJ-As mega-autismo power hour spergouts look like from the outside?
Don't worry, he's the only one who looks embarrassing no matter who he is sperging out at.
The "haha I actually meant other thing we aren't disagreeing actshually" stopped being funny at least 2 years ago.

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>>73452494
>>your type
INTJ-T
>>what is the most important thing in your life
Myself
>>what is the most important part of your identity
The feeling of genetic superiority
>>what is the most important desire you posess
Monarch like control over all of Europe
>>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
nah and i dont care

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>>73463715
INFP
maybe i'd make a good secretary

>>73467367
>just keep parroting unrelated quotes from Jung
hows that for a taste of your own medicine

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>>73452494
Reminder that 16 personalities doesn't give you your mbti type but rather your big 5 one.
If you got your type from 16p, there's a good chance that it's different from what your functions represent. This is especially true for the xNFxs as they described somewhat differently from their jungian counterparts.

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Which types would have the hardest time understanding their own emotions?

>>73468366
Always a good reminder.

>>73468390
"Emotions" isn't really accurate, but Thinking types will be the ones who struggle more answering to "what do you feel about X".

>>73466236
>Your type
INFJ-A
>Do you believe psychopaths are at the top of the hierarchy of intelligence, aptitude, and success in this society?
Absolutely not. Maybe a tiny, tiny minority of them are at the top but the vast majority of them are just doing copious amounts of drugs and alcohol, taking advantage of and fucking over everyone in their immediate vicinity then running off to the next city to do it all over again once their reputation gets too big. Some psychopathic traits or tendencies, there's a real chance there are some specific traits that are associated with 'the top of the hierarchy'.
I'm sure there have been more than a few psychopaths that have made it to the top, but once they make it there, they take everything. If you know anything about Robber Barons, those are your psychopathic 'top of the hierarchy' types.
>Do you believe psychopaths believe they are at the top of such a hierarchy?
Obviously.
>>73467915
Oh, most certainly, outcome oriented thinking has its place. That place is just not the majority of places. The big problem with outcome orientation, is that if you use it in the incorrect context it has a very high likelihood of blowing up in your face and you won't even realize why. Whereas using process orientation in the incorrect context is just kinda... suboptimal.
>damn
I dunno... I mean, who cares if it's embarrassing? You're pretty fun to spergout with, even when it gets frustrating. At least you bring in new information, reframe your point of view for me or even my point of view to make sure you understand, and ask questions about what you're not understanding so that I can attempt to elaborate on that specific point further. You may not always be successful, but you're at least making the effort to engage in the conversation in a meaningful way, either by extracting meaning or by injecting your own. And that's pretty cool if you ask me.

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>>73468686
i'd say objective orientation is useful in the vast majority of situations. name any normal action taken day to day; most jobs, chores, hobbies, etc have objectives, and being objective oriented enables you to achieve that objective more efficiently. being objective oriented also facilitates creative problem solving; being process oriented leaves you lost when the established process no longer achieves success. objective orientation is just particularly handicapped in matters where progress is invisible or imperceptibly slow.
declaring 'better' isn't reasonable, because everyone is biased in their own favor and fully incapable of experiencing the other perspective.

>who cares if it's embarrassing
i feel embarrassed when i do something i think reflects badly on me and i don't want to effect how i'm perceived. Fi, not Fe.

the roundaboutness of our conversations wouldn't bother me if i felt like they ever produced something of value, but they rarely do, so i feel pretty dumb for letting them happen most of the time.

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>>73456844
>I can understand the entirety of your post
Is that a bad thing?

>>73466236
>>Your type
INTJ
>>Do you believe psychopaths are at the top of the hierarchy of intelligence, aptitude
Psychopathy can be described as a symptom of disturbance within the processes underlying these two traits.
>and success in this society?
>>Do you believe psychopaths believe they are at the top of such a hierarchy?
Believe?
https://www.corbettreport.com/meet-the-kakistocracy-tjeerd-andringa-on-the-corbett-report
https://www.corbettreport.com/pedophiles-in-politics-an-open-source-investigation/#comment-23734

>>73460837
>* and |
There's also "" for "entire symbol sets." It can be paired up with *. You probably already knew this, but it wouldn't hurt to underline all the features within the reply chain.

>>73464774
>Ignore the following if you meant your score might be influenced by alcohol or something
It's something along those lines, yeah. Nothing to do with age-related decline. Sorry, I should have probably mentioned that in my post.

>>73453097
I come pretty evenly skewed between intp and entp. With just like 1 point over the other category in the several things. I'm pretty well balanced but trend more toward introverted.

I'm usually thinking about what I can do in the future, immediate or long term, to make my life better. I look forward to social interactions, and crave them with new people and people I value but people that I regularly interact with that I don't have much in common with I don't really connect to them, although I can empathize and sympathize I don't care for their company nor feel like I'm responsible for keeping connections with them. Although I do get a huge amount of satisfaction when I can help people with an immediate need, if it's not immediate and not something I can do uniquely well or feel like it's urgent I'm not very interested. I wonder sometimes if I'm more selfish than I think. I think about these sorts of things a lot.

I recognize that I sometimes spend too much time thinking about hypothetical scenarios I might have and replaying past encounters and conversations I have had. When I recognize I'm doing this I try to shut it off and appreciate the immediate moment (I do a lot of meditating). This used to be easier in my early 20's when I got into it, after that I had several years of struggling with alcohol where my thinking and ability to focus were pretty much shot, but am recovering now and am able to start meditating again and thinking through problems more rationally. But before, during and after I spent a lot of time thinking about what kind of person I am, want to be, and the people around me and how they perceive me. I am able to recognize some of this comes from some ego, pride and self esteem issues. Again, I reflect a lot on myself and how I affect my environment.

I consider myself both frivolous and mystical and extremely practical and rational. Comment too long... cont.

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>>73469246
While outcome orientation is useful, I think it's almost completely the opposite of the way you detailed it here. Especially these two:
>facilitates creative problem solving...
This is actually process orientation, when you're trying to find new ways to solve the problem, that is being focused on the process of problem-solving. The outcome of "solving the problem" is secondary to finding a viable process to refine.
>leaves you lost when...
And this is outcome orientation. A person who is focused on the process is by in large unperturbed by the fact that the process doesn't yield the outcome. Because sometimes... sometimes, you can make all the correct moves and still lose. That's just the nature of life. You know?
A relatable metaphor, videogames. Sometimes you're playing a game and you make all the right plays but your team still loses. Maybe this even happens a couple times in a row. And sometimes you win games after doing nothing but making constant mistakes. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. Everything in life is a gamble, nothing is a guarantee, and the best you can do is rig the game slightly in your favor.
Realistically speaking, using some mixture of both outcome and process orientation is the best choice. I am bias towards process, thus outcome is best as a supporting role, I think.

I relate to your comments about embarrassment more than I care to share.
>if i felt like they ever produced something of value
Heh- hehe. A perfect display of your outcome oriented mindset. Wanna change that?
Funny enough, this is what people always say to me when we first start having real conversations. It's because of the way I speak, and it's intentional. It takes quite a long time for a seed to blossom into something of value which can bear fruit. But it will get there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n_Ae9DGC0U

>>73470147
I enjoy being both practical and frivolous. Some examples and explanation: In college (airline pilot flight school) I learned a lot about meyers briggs and type A type B personalities and stuff. It was considered important because of the inter-cockpit ability to know yourself, how you react to complex situations and how to work with others (Crew/Cockpit Resource Management, consider the example of the plane that crashed in the Everglades because both pilots were too interested in a landing gear indicator light bulb being burnt out). So it's always been interesting to me to think through complex things and be rational, practical, efficient and methodical. I love complex systems, being able to solve complex problems and having unique technical skills plus intuition. But on the flip side of the token, I love mystical new age shit. I feel guilty for cutting a bloom off of a flower or killing a spider, like I have to be good to the universe and believe in karma, etc.

I can be on a budget, and only able to afford peanut butter and bread but will sometimes buy the squish animal keychain just for the ridiculousness of it. I can be very frugal with my time and attention when needed and have no guilt for ignoring others needs when I have more pressing ones. But am incredibly free and giving with my time and energy, money and even belongings if I get to know it helps somebody else. All of that being said, I do value different people differently. I will treat them the same, and will just as likely give a crack addict my shirt as I would my sister a gift. But I won't feel as much sympathy with the crack addict as I would if my sister stubbed her toe. Having had several personal problems I've worked through, low self esteem, addiction, practically homeless, etc. I have a lot of sympathy for others with problems. But I have little sympathy for those who don't admit them. Comment too long... cont.

>>73470287
I will likely help people through a problem, and give them practical immediate advice to solve their issue, even the leg up to be able to do it. But will stop caring if they have the attitude "that just doesn't work for me" "I'm different" "I'm a victim" "I'm doomed" "the world is unfair" etc. I understand feeling helpless at times, am sympathetic for problems they caused themselves, but won't waste energy on someone who refuses to help themselves. I realize this can be cold, wonder sometimes if I'm not understanding enough. But at the same time, excluding actual disabilities, I think very little is outside one's own control. Because I believe that how you perceive a problem, and the world, and changing your perception is the trick needed to overcome obstacles. It is the only thing that worked for me. I'm a very optimistic person, but when I try to get others to be more optimistic and see a silver lining, yet they refuse or seem to want to wallow in self pity, I stop caring. Or at least stop trying. Even at my worst I was optimistic and felt that if I just tried harder, or completely re analyzed a situation I could find a solution. All that being said, my point was I really love all people and genuinely look forward to meeting new people and helping them, I can be quick to cut any emotional tie.

As far as introverted and extroverted. I really must have completely alone and silent time every day at the beginning and the end of my day. It doesn't have to be much but if I don't get it my polite personality will diminish slightly. I think it's important to be polite, friendly and say things as gently as possible. Not out of fear of judgement towards myself but out of an idea that if you don't have to be harsh, it's nicer to be nice. I love being nice to people and making them feel good and it isn't fake. People really enjoy being around me and think I'm charming and genuinely kind.... cont.

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"Process oriented thinking" is the mindset of an insane person. It implies an extremely high degree of understanding of whatever process you're engaging with which is why it's usually pushed by megalomaniacs.

>>73455731
Essential awareness for anybody doing personality quizzes online.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica
>CA derived much of its personality data on online surveys which it conducted on an ongoing basis. For each political client, the firm would narrow voter segments from 32 different personality styles it attributed to every adult in the United States. The personality data would inform the tone of the language used in ad messages or voter contact scripts, while additional data was used to determine voters' stances on particular issues
>"Today in the United States we have somewhere close to four or five thousand data points on every individual ... So we model the personality of every adult across the United States, some 230 million people."
>Other Facebook officials argued against calling it a "data breach," arguing those who took the personality quiz originally consented to give away their information

Maybe some condensed warning about this should also be included in the OP.

>>73469320
For the record I did not know.

>>73468686
Oh sweet naive INFJ, psychopaths absolutely are at the top of society. Just look at Clinton wearing his Blue Dress at Epstein Island. Just look at Napoleon leading his troops from the front while getting hailed with artillery and bullets. Just look at Ceasar and Pompey, killing 10s of thousands of their own countrymen for more power. Look at Stalin Purging all his own supporters. Look at Lenin murdering innocent children for progress. Look at Xi genociding the Ughers. Look at Hitler taking endless amphetamines so that he can shout down his allies into submission. Look at the heads of the CIA who willingly spread Crack through black communities so as to put more behind bars. Look at all the Popes who've been child molesters. Look at the Kellogg guy who got all American boys circumcised and eat his nutrition less cereal.

Psychopaths run deep, there are more of them than you believe, and they rise to the top of hierarchies because you have to be psychotic to put in the 140hours a week of work it takes to demolish your opposition.

>>73470560
process oriented sex with centaur

>>73470429
I go out of my way often to make others feel good, because it makes me feel good. I don't know how selfish that is, nor that it matters IF it is, but my point is, I tend to analyze myself a lot and can be very critical of myself at times. For example, I admit that I enjoy the company of people who are attractive and/or happy more than those who aren't. I don't think they're better or more worthy and don't treat them differently. But I enjoy them more, personally. The HAPPY quality is more important than the ATTRACTIVE quality, but regardless, I like to be around people who have their shit together. This is a point for me because I am friends with many who don't have their shit together at all, and like I mentioned before are often in a state of "woe is me, why did this happen, it isn't fair". I love them but don't like being around them much.

The only thing as important to me as people, is travel and new experiences. My main mission in life is to meet everyone I can, travel everywhere I can, experience everything I can, and to constantly strive to make myself the best person I can be. So I'm very self reflective, very outgoing, equally logical and mystical, love people but often feel separate from many. I feel a duty to the world to make my immediate bubble a better place, but don't often feel guilt if I can't fix things. And when I think I'm spending so much time on self reflection that It's becoming unproductive I actively practice mindfulness and seek new knowledge and experiences.

I also realize most of this typed out is more of my own self analyzing being prompted by your question, rather than an answer you wanted but in my own words, as someone who skews pretty evenly between both, that's what ran through my mind. Lastly, I don't necessarily give a lot of credit to those sorts of personality tests. I don't necessarily think it's valid science or anything. But I have had people say I'm both introverted and extroverted.

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>>73470194
>i think it's the opposite
i think that, unlike the typological concepts we usually discuss, the idea of process vs object orientation is really nebulous and we don't have either the confidence to say what traits apply to which, nor the confidence to say which orientation either of us possesses. though i seem objective oriented and you seem process oriented, we're going to disagree on the details because we both feel capable in XYZ situations. lacking firm lines, discussion gets muddy and we get logically messy really fast.
either that or both orientations are capable of the majority of all things, and we're both imagining the other side as more restricted than it realistically is.

also, everything beyond 'relatable metaphor' is not a metaphor and has nothing to do with the orientation conversation. what was that? waxing poetic about irrelevant personal struggles? or did you say A... and expect me to imply B-Z somehow?

>thats what people always say
'people' are right, kek. your communication causes frustration for people who value their time and energy, because you enjoy setting up a chess board and waiting for people to play out the situation in the exact way you want them to play, offering very little direction, and you are willing to reset the board an infinite amount of times until they get it. this is not something the vast majority of human beings are willing to do, nor does it offer uniquely positive results in process or outcome, enough to justify the inconvenience.

>do you want to change that?
no. i have plenty of things i would like to change in myself, but the way i approach problems is one of the few things i consider a positive trait.

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>>73466236
>>Your type
Isfp
>>Do you believe psychopaths are at the top of the hierarchy of intelligence, aptitude, and success in this society?
The only thing they are at the top of is molesting little kids to cope with generations of getting cucked. I could break their skulls easily
>>Do you believe psychopaths believe they are at the top of such a hierarchy?
Yeah

>your type
INFP
>what is the most important thing in your life
Basic needs like food, shelter and air aside: civility, beauty, kindness, comfiness, love.
>what is the most important part of your identity
Being kind to others, aestheticism.
>what is the most important desire you posess
To find true love.
>for each of your choices: was it a close competition, and do you wish it was a different answer?
No, I think they were closely intertwined.

>>73470575
He obviously confused them with sociopaths who are simply good for nothing niggers who cope with the lack of a father figure by replacing it with DA HOOD

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>>73470628
That sounds pretty great actually. Sex with a focus on the step by step process of the mechanics instead of cooming. Maybe that's what I should call the bdsm without the bdsm. I was searching for a word for at the start of this month.

Another funny thing I thought about while typing this out, in the early stages of a relationship it's still rude to say you want to have sex with the person you're courting, but you also can't act like you still want to have sex with anybody else. So you're basically expected to LARP as a strange eunuch. Weird innit?

>>73470891
In which generations were the psychopaths cucked? As far as I'm aware the people at the top of society now are basically descended from the people who were at the top of society 1000 years ago. They just molest little kids because they can, I think you might be justifying their actions a bit too much by implying there's some kind of pathos to it.

>>73471136
>In which generations were the psychopaths cucked?
Why do you think jewishness is passed down throughout the mother?

>>73471136
eunuch sex with centaur

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what do you frens think about Internal Family Systems?

>>73468390
i'm inxp and i struggle with emotions because my family never talked about them ever so i didn't learn how to identify them or cope with them
i'm decent at explaining why i feel a certain way, or what word describes how i'm feeling, but i have a lot of trouble expressing how i feel, or describing how and where in my body i feel an emotion. often when my therapist how i feel about something, the most i can say in the moment is "good" or "bad" or maybe "hurt". just simple childish answers. I do feel my emotions very strongly however, and tend to listen to them over logic even though i do think a lot as well and rely on logic and thought and intellectualizing to make up for my lack of emotional knowledge.

i think it's maybe less about type and more about how you were raised? there are Feelers who struggle understanding emotions but are still driven by them, and Thinkers who understand their emotions logically but not holistically. Plus, Feelers might be more acutely aware of how little they understand how they feel whereas Thinkers might erroneously assume that because they can think through why they feel something it means they fully understand that emotion.

>>73471161
bc jews were constantly being conquered and such, so their women were being raped and their men killed, so it made sense to follow jewish lines through the women

>>73471205
>Internal Family Systems
What's what, another fancy circle?

>>73471161
Uhh, I'd assume that if they were constantly cucked then there'd be less certainty that someone with a jewish mother was fully jewish? It actually implies the opposite, that they were cucking other people and didn't want to have to deal with the offspring of Shlomo Goldsteins amorous exploits. If it was patralinial then any old gentile woman could claim that her son was part of the tribe, but with matralinial inheritance you can prove that at least one of the parents was Jewish. This seems like an intersting enough topic for me to actually look deeper into it though instead of just relying on conjecture forever, wish me luck!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqUHtd4cZI8

That all said though
>Da Jooz!1! Everything bad is becuz of da Jooz!
lol, ok, let me guess, your dad's Jewish too?

>>73471179
That sounds much less exciting.

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>>73470840
>either that or
You make a very, very valid point here. If anything, it's most likely this. They're probably both equally useful and valid in basically all situations, and in all reality it's probably like comparing a red pen to a blue pen. But, I like my red pen and your blue pen is obviously inferior. :^)

>has nothing to do
It does, but unfortunately it was too abstract and I lost the concrete connections in the exploration. It's a bad habit within the context of communication that I cannot quite find the solution to.
But, it's more like you said "A..." then I said "F... :(" but you didn't see how F was connected to A, because of the distance and the fact that I didn't show you how I got there, thus couldn't get from F to anything else related to A. It's like if we were talking about the fish in the ocean, then I seemingly randomly started talking about trees. If I don't tell you I went from ocean fish > water > evaporation > clouds > rain > dirt > life > growth > vegetation > trees all in the span of about 3 seconds, you'd just be like "wtf are you talking about? We're talking about the ocean, dumbass." Which is totally fair.

I'm aware that my style causes frustration. That's why I give the people who play my game a free pass to frustrate me back a little more than I do them, as a token of good faith.
>because you enjoy setting up a chess board
Hehe. I also like playing the board. But I don't get to do that very often. So, you know, it's quite nice when someone doesn't take themselves so seriously that they can sit down and play a little made up game of 'let's take the long, beautiful scenic route to solving your problem'. People are too busy living their fast lives to take the long scenic route and enjoy the trip, and I don't much care for those people. It's not about the destination, it's about the journey, you know.

>no. i have plenty of things
Care to share?

>>73471405
>I'd assume that if they were constantly cucked then there'd be less certainty that someone with a jewish mother was fully jewish?
No? How did you even come to that conclusion? If the mother is jewish then the son is jewish, it's as simple as that. That's why it's that way, so that no matter if they're getting cucked or not, they don't go extinct from too much cucking.

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>>73471286
absolutely desu famiglia

>>73471438
>It's not about the destination, it's about the journey, you know.
Says this while making the journey incredibly annoying and not having anything of value be done as a result

>>73471438
>game of 'let's take the long, beautiful scenic route to solving your problem'
What are the advantages and disadvantages of this?

>>73471487
Not that I care much about the "value" thing, it's just posts on an indonesian basketpooping forum afterall.

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>>73471438
this whole post is going to come across as pointedly rude, and i don't know how to alter that. i don't have an active desire to be inconsiderate, but i also do not have a positive opinion of you and i have an even lower opinion of how you operate, so any time i am asked something and i respond honestly it is going to come across as unkind. sorry.

>it does, but it was too abstract and i lost concrete connections
that means you intended it to be relevant, but failed to make it relevant. it doesn't retain it's relevancy purely through intent.

>i took a Ne road trip
even when speaking with other intuitives, you should outline all the steps of mental projection, as they're more than likely going to start at A and go to another end point entirely from yours, since Ne expands infinitely in all directions.

>I give the people who play my game a free pass to frustrate me back as a token of good faith
this offers absolutely zero value and it reflects poorly on your character that you think it would.
it is also almost the furthest possible thing from good faith.

>people are too busy living their fast lives to enjoy the scenic route
you say it's scenic, but from my perspective we're locked in a cellar where all the surfaces are made of cement, and you want to drag it out for as long as possible. i'm in a rush to get back aboveground and out of the soviet bomb shelter you call home.

>care to share?
not with you. i do not consider you to be wise or insightful, so i would not gain much, and you are also not very pleasant to speak with, so i would not enjoy the conversation.

>>73471472
My point was that the reason they'd make that the rule in the first place is to keep the Jewish population as Jewish as possible at a populational level. Matrilinial descent is a policy you'd implement if you wanted to keep the bloodline continuous and there's a relatively low chance of being cucked, the benefit is that there's a much lower chance of people with no Jewish parentage at all infiltrating their community, or have it be diluted by trying to include every family a Jewish man was involved with. Besides, if they were struggling with constant cucking they wouldn't be dealing with 101 genetic diseases as a result of their tiny gene pools.

>>73471605
constant cucking sex with centaur

>>73471643
Who would you be cucking?

>>73471684
homoanon

>>73471605
That makes sense. All the more reason to hate them I guess, they just rape kids for no reason. Or because demons. Who knows, but they definitely don't need to rape them for that adrenochrome.

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>>73470560
>Maybe some condensed warning about this should also be included in the OP.
So, with previous different recommendations in mind, like this?
https://pastebin.com/BWzFV0s3

>>73471205
>what do you frens think about Internal Family Systems?
>>73471473
I've poked around and it reads like a more systematized approach of working with the archetypal images within the mind.
Aside from it being relatively accessible, main downsides here are that:
1) The systematization is rather overcomplicated for its strictness - doesn't really offer something that'd be reliably true between different individuals, and reads like shoehorning, even (in comparison, Jung in his ramblings was at least more open to different ecosystems of the psyche (to be more specific - in a way, you could see that each "man's own inner journey" has its own specific function-complex network systems to resolve, even if roles of the specific archetypes tend to be shared));
2) It would be better as part of (post-)Jungian theory as another frame of reference within it. Like, it really feels like what it's lacking the most is just the logical conclusion of its incorporation into the lovely 20th century schizo theories on inner alchemy.

>>73471605
>101 genetic diseases as a result of their tiny gene pools.
Intermixing between radically different genepools leads to gene-based diseases as well btw https://archive.vn/pvus8#selection-1047.0-1051.864

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>>73471487
I don't do anything to the journey. It's outside of my hands, I'm not the driver. I find the road, then give the road and the wheel to you and say "Here's the road, and the wheel. Let's go." And then five seconds into being in the driver seat, you're all like "Naaah, I don't like this road it's too long, I'm taking a shortcut!" floor the gas pedal, aggressively turn off the road, crash head first into the first tree in your path whilst continuing the flooring the gas pedal and yelling at the top of your lungs "YOU DID THIS YOU DID THIS YOU DID THIS!"
Nigger, I literally gave you the wheel, shut the fuck up.
>>73471532
I don't really look at things like that. Every possible advantage could be seen as a disadvantage, and visa versa.
>>73471561
I'ma be really real with you, I really don't care if you don't like me, or even if you're candid about that dislike of me. I can even appreciate that candidness. You're just a person I find interesting, one of the few people around here I am truly neutral towards. And your candidness won't change that. So, more power to you.
>that means you intended it to be relevant
Yep, but I went too far and severed all the connections habitually. It's like I found a pretty red rose and wanted to show you it and how it was connected to the thing you were saying. But, by me observing that rose I accidentally dropped a nuclear bomb on it to see all its parts, and turned it into radioactive dust, which mostly got blown away by the blast. So I handed you the remaining 3 atoms of rose and said "This was once a pretty rose, but I blew it up and scattered its remains across the vast unknown because it was so beautiful I couldn't stop looking at it. Sorry. :3"
>but from my..
Keep in mind what you said earlier, I don't give direction. If we wind up in a dark cellar, it's because you took us there. I don't have the ability to move us from that cellar it's yours, not mine.
>not with you
Fair enough.

>>73472014
>I don't do anyhting to the journey.
Yes you do, you give the driver the shittiest car possible that makes fart and poop sounds every single time it changes gear and constantly gets put on reverse gear for no reason.

>>73471438
you are even more insufferable than the other one cause they at least are aggressively rather than all faggity like you

Well hey, I missed some pure, unadulterated infj-a cringe

>>73472047
what kind of fucking faggot types like thiskys

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>>73472014
>not offended etc etc
sweet
>i don't give direction
>if we end up in a bomb shelter its because you took us there
i almost said 'you are the cellar', but that's wrong. you're the nuclear blast that makes us run into the cellar, man. we could start in the most fertile and lush field of conversational subjects that have infinite potential, and we could talk casually, until i mention that dandelions are pretty flowers.

you'd stop everything, pluck one dandelion, and explain it's a weed. i explain it's still a pretty flower, despite it's classification, and this back and forth dispute would circulize eternally until you've torn up everything around us and dug a hole, 'giving no direction' with such violent obsession that where 'here' is becomes entrenched and concrete and closed in. i always, always start with you because your initial statement promises normal conversation, and in the end, my expectation is always wrong, and we never go anywhere, because in order for someone to move on from the conversation, they have to move on from you, because you grew roots.

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>>73471686
Just checking, and I wanted to see his name written out again. For all I knew you were homu the whole time, but there's a sort of melancholy in confirming it's not the case.

>>73471916
Yeah but like, with a better summary probably. It says in the article CA's parent company is still running, so I'll see if I can track down some specific tests and websites that are linked to them. I've suspected for years that 16P is one of these companies but I haven't confirmed it yet. I remember finding their office on google maps and it was next to like a spy agency or something. It's called NERIS analytics and it's literally based in Cambridge lol. Buy yes I need to do more scooping

>>73472158
melancholic sex with centaur