Why are so many people with degrees in geology, molecular genetics, chemistry and physics not working in those things?every single guy under 40 years old with those degrees has a bunch of cloud certifications and works as a coder in some soulless deadend software ENGINEER.
>>16476557because professors need slave labor (grad students) and universities need money (undergrads). Next question.
>>16476557More money.
because the systems oversaturated now so not only is there more competition but supply pushes wages down.
>>16476557Skill issue. They don't know how to monetize their degrees.
>>16476557The academic pyramid narrows down really quickly.>>16476634Postdoc salaries were always bad.
>>16476557Bio is too regulated for entrepreneurship. I can't even make my own insulin w/o going through the FDA lolHopefully RFK will allow stem cell research
>>16476850america just keeps getting better
>>16476557>Why are so many people with degrees in geology, molecular genetics, chemistry and physics not working in those things?Because there is limited (in some cases, zero) industrial demand for people trained in such things. That's why a lot of the people getting sucked into the scam cope and tell themselves that they're going to make a career out of it by getting hired by a university to teach subsequent generations these unmarketable skills. But of course there will always be far more students than there are teaching positions. Some succeed but most of them have to fail.
>>16476557There's too many saars from jeet diploma mills saturating the field with their AIslop fake papers. Lots of them have been busted for it already. These people trash up everywhere they go essentially
>>16476557It's mostly >>16477702The real reason is deindustrialisation. It is not simply due to lack of raw skill. It's that the jobs don't exist anymore.Deindustrialisation of the west had so many knock on effects that the only jobs left in so many places are busywork bullshit jobs and shit like excel spreadsheets for some company that realistically, if it disappeared tomorrow, nobody would notice.People think it's that they're just not good enough but it isn't. I went to a big name brand school and every single person I know struggled to find work afterwards because the jobs just do not exist. And it isn't one field, it's every field. Engineers are now struggling. Having no work for electrical engineers, due to a complete lack of industry to the extent that they're waiting for someone to die to get hired, is not a good sign.Decades ago alternatives to academia did exist. But these jobs required the industry to exist in the first place. Now that they've gone to Asia, those jobs also only really exist in Asia in substantial numbers. There's plenty of work which should exist, but due to the west being lead into a slow suicide you wind up with talented people who have nothing better to do than to waste their youth waiting tables or staring at spreadsheets or even going into finance. London for example is dominated by finance, but would the world really be worse off for having slightly less efficient financial markets? Probably not. It used to have industries where young people trained in science and mathematics could find work making something of use, and now it's gone, and those people are in cubicles doing nothing of value. That's an entire generation's worth of talent in that city gone to waste doing what in the end amounts to nothing. >>16476806Every time I hear someone saying this it's always an absolute idiot.
>>16477836>to the extent that they're waiting for someone to die to get hired, is not a good signlol this is me rn, I lucked out finding a company full of old people who want to pass the torch and retire. Turns out radar is a niche field. Feels good man
>>16477836Even if de-industrialization weren't a factor, there would still be far fewer jobs for physicists than there are college graduates with physics degrees. Industry needs engineers, not physicists, and the fact that the engineers use physics and somebody with a physics degree could conceivably find work as an engineer doesn't really change the point.
>>16477842That’s the thing though, it’s not true. In a healthier and dynamic industry you need the physicist to advise your engineers on cutting edge work. Think of the 40s and 50s, companies like bell had their own science departments.
>>16477842Yeah of course degrees are generally oversupplied, that's how the market reacts (see: CS right now). Does that make CS itself an unhelpful skill? No, it's just that the market adjusted over time as it does with anything. The skill itself is useful, and if that person goes and pumps gas for a living, his skill is being wasted.But deindustrialisation is by far the most enormous job-related issue that's fucking young people over right now and it affects all people in all STEM fields one way or another. Engineers have less opportunities to build skills, the jobs for them are vastly fewer. Scientists who want to work outside of academia in practical areas have nowhere to go anymore. If industry "doesn't need scientists" but only engineers, we wouldn't have seen these jobs for scientists exist in the past. But we did, because it turns out the skills you get in science actually are useful more broadly than academia. Anyone who thinks science is useless except for academia has either a total lack of imagination, or brain damage. A huge amount of development of the latter half of the 20th century was done by throwing scientists and engineers together with a large amount of money and letting them loose in environments which just don't exist in the US or Europe today.What's the plan for the west? Sit around, pretend nothing needs to be done but financial trivia, make nothing, give no opportunities to STEM, let academic research die, and pretend there's no other way forward? That's the path we're going down, and everyone is aware that the results are abysmal, our societies are worse for it, the alternative jobs are pointless, and people clearly feel in their gut their skill and life is wasted on bullshit. This is probably part of why men drop out of work now too. Young men want things to be expected of them and they want to do things that matter. Grandparents' generation aimed for the moon, your generation focuses on maximising microtransactions and pop up ads.
>>16477874Bell was an exceptional company, there will never be enough companies like Bell to hire as many physicists as schools today are pumping out.This becomes even more true when you get into the specializations. For instance, the maximum conceivable industrial demand for astrophysicists is just about zero.
>>16477892Of course supply won't match demand. That's not the metric or the issue. The issue is the jobs do not exist at all.In fact astrophysicists are some of the most in demand physicists outside of academia because they build a lot of numerical and statistical skills, and their skills in the past were also sometimes transferable to aerospace companies. Another example would be fibre optic cables now being developed to use solitons. Engineers cannot reasonably be expected to have skills in both engineering and know the ins and outs of soliton theory which quickly gets quite deep, so the only thing to do (which was done) was to collaborate with physicists.A better example would be algebraic geometry, but that's finding (limited) applications in statistics, and that's also because it's hard to even get people outside the field to understand what it's about, so they can't collaborate effectively outside of academia.
>>16477892>Bell was an exceptional company, there will never be enough companies like Bellsounds like a supply and demand issue for companies like Bell thensounds like maybe we should go and put that generation which has no relevant employment to better use and maybe we'd have more fucking Bell labs thenno, who are we kidding, let's pretend there's no problem and you'd all be better off making coffee instead
>>16477896>>In fact astrophysicists are some of the most in demand physicists outside of academia because they build a lot of numerical and statistical skillsIrrelevant, they're not working in their field which is the point of OP, who wonders why people with degrees in molecular genetics are working as software engineers instead. It's not a matter of people not being able to find jobs, but rather not finding jobs in their area of study.
>>16477836Yep, pretty much every technical field is dying except for software engineering. Even software is finally oversaturated now because there aren't enough jobs in industry to support all of the new grads getting CS degrees. But you can't really blame the new grads, there's basically no other sector of the economy that's growing. Our futures have been sold out and most people don't even realize it.
>>16477842>somebody with a physics degree could conceivably find work as an engineerIn times past this was true, but not anymore. Physics degrees are worthless and employers won't consider you unless you have a technical degree for the exact job you'll be doing. Part of the reason is there aren't really any smaller companies anymore (except in software), they've all been gobbled up by the MIC and if you apply for a job without the right piece of paper you'll either be automatically rejected or your resume will be trashed by a 20-year-old Stacy who studied psychology.
>>16476557Why do you think?
Yes, just go to the Yob Centre and ask for vacants at the Krebs cycle mines
>working 80 hours a week in chem lab: 30,000/yr>selling meth and lsd: 1,000,000/yrthe choice is clear
People with skills in biochemistry can get jobs in pharmaceutical research companies, and theres also a chemistry industry where chemists can work, chemists work at all kinds of companies that use chemicals. They work at water purification plants, sewage plants, the military, every factory that uses chemicals will have a small chemical lab, any tech company that makes or develops hardware will use chemicalsPhysics can be harder unless you are willing to move to a hi-tech nexus like Boston>GeologyAlways in demand for the oil industry. Construction too, as they are the soil and groundwater people
>>16476557>Anon, my son, you completed your doctorate. The time has come for you to choose.>Will you take an underpaid job as an adjunct?>Or will you work for this hedge fund doing ROI modelling on tech investments?
>discover dna>get your nobel prize revoked because people dont like facts
I watched a YouTube documentary on Jan Hendrik Schön, a fraudster from the 90s who claimed to make breakthroughs in organic transistors. He basically copied stuff, showed what others what they wanted to see, and basically just made shit up. He got published a crazy number of times in the top journals and worked for Bell Labs. He did all this shit for years before being caught. The INCREDIBLE thing to me, what this guy showed me was: almost all the scientists just took his shit for real, no one actually researched his papers, only a rare few people called him out, and he just scammed his way through his work like that almost uncontested. That means all those OTHER scientists ALSO didn’t know what the fuck they were doing. All those other researchers at universities and high-class research labs were ALSO just faking it, except they just pretended to know what they were doing instead of outright fabricating and copying shit. That’s the ONLY explanation for how all these researchers, supposedly experts in the field, kept trying and failing to recreate this guy’s made up experiments for YEARS and only like 2 guys were skeptical of him. NO ONE said “hey that’s impossible”. He only got caught when his luck ran out and someone noticed that he was outright copying graphs in his papers which started an investigation. NO ONE at Bell Labs, the universities, journal reviewers, etc, said “BS that’s fucking impossible you’re a con artist”. there were all sorts of excuses, ie. “Trust is critical in science so you can’t automatically call fraud”, lol!! The REAL reason is that all those fucks were faking it! They’re pretending to be physicists but they’re actually just engineers playing around with stuff until they find something that works. Wow!!!
>>16476557>geologyI have a guess.
>>16477943Ok, I misunderstood what you intended by >>16477892>the maximum conceivable industrial demand for astrophysicists is just about zeroIf you mean explicitly "in an astrophysics-related industrial application" then I agree, but with the caveat that again this is a problem we created for ourselves via deindustrialisation. Besides, I think as a society we have so many bullshit jobs that it really wouldn't hurt to just stop a few hundred astrophysicists working their no doubt pointless jobs to go work on some kind of space-related projects, which are now growing as an industry. What's the worst case, anyway? They get nothing done? Well they were wasting their time on their other jobs anyway, so no loss, and we at least chance them doing something worthwhile by investing in real STEM-related jobs.
>>16478875Even with a bustling space industry, there's no industrial demand for astrophysicists to do astrophysics. Anybody specializing in studying stuff outside of our solar system simply has absolutely nothing to offer industry; their field of study is quite literally too far removed from anything anybody can make money with.>um yes these here numbers say that a star five light years away is fusing helium and will continue to do so for another 900 million yearsGreat, very interesting. But nobody can make money with that. It has zero industrial relevance no matter how much de-industrialization you hypothetically undo.It's easy to pick on astrophysics, but this isn't the only field of study that is useless to industry. Scientists who study the ancient past are in this same situation. There's only so much demand for digging up dinosaur bones to sell museum tickets with. And if your specialty isn't dinosaurs but instead something the general public doesn't have any interest in, like various species of ancient clam, then what are you ever going to do with that? Getting handouts (grants) from the government is all there is here.High energy particle physics. This is one you'll probably push back on the hardest. There are a LOT of industrial applications for relatively low energy particle physics, a lot of industrial processes which use or conceivably could use modest synchrotrons. But when you get to the level of stuff like CERN, where you need accelerators like LHC that are several miles across and need to run experiments for many years continuously to see even a faint statistical trace of the predicted particle which decays after a trillionth of a second, then you're deep into territory that will never have industrial applications. There just isn't anything you can do with this sort of experiment that actually makes money.
One thing I find kind of puzzling is why academic research is basically set up to be a career for psychos, it's set up so that only people who see it as a vocation and are willing (or financial independent enough) to tolerate quite poor working conditions can do it.What if you have a family, caring responsibilities, or idk just want to live a dignified life that doesn't consist entirely of work? No wonder people leave to go work at a bank or software company, at least they'll put money in your pension and pay your holiday days.
>>16479466cooding at a bank or company has nothing to do with the rocks you studied for 3-8 years
>>16480005Well quite
>>16476557Because of the niggering of academia. Picrel is the minister of health of Belgium, called Maggie "De Block." Her greatest achievement being slapping a cigarette packaging on top of the existing one. Now imagine this fat blubber whale of an old, ugly woman, present at the top of the scientific institutions, bossing committees, dictating what shall be considered scientific and what shall not. You'd lose your mind too if you were a scientist.
>>16478950>But nobody can make money with that.This isn't the point.If you want to optimise for short-term profit, then certainly everything in your post is justified and we ought to can those entire fields. We should bin history, most fields of physics, all of pure mathematics, a lot of engineering, the vast majority of the rest of our fields of study, and be done with it. Generally, people agree that "does this make money?" is a poor metric to run a society by. But this is precisely the metric that led us to where we are right now. What's profitable are things like enormous amounts of mass migration, collapse of birth rates and replacement of native babies with foreign adults, offshoring of as many jobs as possible to India and SE Asia.What's also unproductive are most jobs these people in STEM are doing anyway. Most are doing jobs which we could throw away and not miss at all. In the end this comes down to a difference in perspective about what you think society should prioritise. If you think we should optimise for short term gains in money, then our society is already halfway to utopia. I disagree, and think that given we've got an enormous talent pool doing absolutely pointless work now, we may as well put them to work doing something suited to their talents since they can't possibly be any more wasted than they are right now unless we decide to shoot them immediately upon graduation.
>>16480571OP's question was>Why are so many people with degrees in [generally useless shit] not working in those things?The answer is because jobs for those things don't exist outside of the university system, because they're useless to industry.
>>16481262This answer is wrong, because this "industry" does not exist in the west in the first place, and these industries which Asia is now enjoying would not have existed without development in "generally useless shit."
>>16481786You are asserting that there exists a level of industry which creates industrial demand for every academic specialization there is, which just doesn't pass the sniff test.
>>16478711>Guy shows some new data>"I don't work on this exact thing but these figures in the SI, the only evidence I have in front of me seem reasonable">*time passes as the promising results get others to to that field*>Finally, others start to try to reproduce it and immediately find out it's bullcrap.>Phoney still has some momentum and trust and denies it>Eventually though, he's busted and we understand how he did itIt's like that brown superconductor guy. He knew enough about the field to make some convincing fakes and faggot reviewers who didn't really read the data and just wanted to put a rubber stamp on it and get back to their own lives let it into nature and science and shit but there were always a few staunch critics. The system actually works, but not that well and rather slowly. Hey we found out geocentrism was wrong in the end, what are you getting so angry about?
Because any drooling retard is allowed to even attempt to graduate university and then they will be put into your group project that (You) will have to carry if you want to graduate, at which point you also caused a drooling retard to pass at the same level as you did, but with 0 effort.
>>16482000>marketing isn't real
>>16482000I'm not. I'm saying you don't know in advance which fields will be useful, e.g. medical advances discovered by studying obscure animals which had no obvious applications whatsoever, the computer being discovered as a side-effect of Turing pursuing a problem of Hilbert, and so on. I'm also saying that the assertion "people with STEM degrees are unemployed because they're useless to industry" isn't true, because there's no industry in the first place due to political reasons.
>>16486296>companies are going to hire dudes to do theoretical maths about the inside of black holes which are many lightyears away from earth and therefore of no conceivable practical value to the economy because.. uh.... markettinglol yeah okay frogposter
>>16476557>collegecucks: YOU CAN'T DISCUSS SCIENCE ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE U DON'T HAVE A DEGREE THAT FIELD>also collegecucks: I'M A SOFTWARE ENGINEER BECAUSE I HAVE A DEGREE IN ASTRONOMY
>>16486949your debt to the university is a conceivable value and very real to everyone involved, also don't forget that razor blade cartridges are shittier than old razors and cost less to produce than they cost to market and retards like (You) buy them anyway, despite no conceivable value
>>16486279>. Hey we found out geocentrism was wrong in the endDid we? You might want to look again.
