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'Emperors Gift' Edition

>Rules Errata, FAQs, and Commentaries:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/
>Megas:
https://mega.nz#F!gaBiVTKI!HTOuNx5zzNxHqT-ny-AU3A
https://mega.nz/#F!64wmnBZR!rWcm37EkOOeToeueqhPjpA
https://mega.nz/#F!BxI1HSgI!0tKymKh9RZTzGpgIA5EyCg
https://mega.nz/#F!9NchGZyZ!-V1LhJALxDp9Tw97WzEQGA
https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://mega.nz/#F!iCRjmShA!qD_xReEcxkyemLhDrR-1aw
https://mega.nz/#F!WfQnWBIB!aAZsgUk2ETDe5avdB5h2Eg
https://mega.nz/#F!HvxzACaB!wj1rVfS7ZiXnAqsN-N3jTg
https://mega.nz/#F!LnIjwT6Y!N56t_EQ4x5a9bf4pbx9Y7g
https://mega.nz/#F!a6BhzYRA!UXHXlMtmRjQmdfXZ0mD2Xw
https://mega.nz/#F!qOpl2TLL!SSS3Oy0jXkj3sowpe9IHTA
https://mega.nz/#F!viIm3D4R!CuDrU5rPz141Ta4b__aS4w
https://mega.nz/#F!G2J23RDQ!VkBd8F_SBgdzDEs6IliChg
https://mega.nz/#F!DzBSyYIQ!W5gke8ZPVccmTHpqi3Olqw
https://mega.nz/#F!GCwx1TxI!x8MD8CABlUqlMUB8Ru3A0Q
https://mega.nz/#F!Svo0nRzZ!W7zFDM1CoEfG0ioq7yhwWA
https://mega.nz/#F!yiQjTRpA!uLb3djl7sWANn1UxNhooTg
https://mega.nz/#!QqBkWByb!Uc39uN2gJ3CxsqaXf2mACDY2Y197BtFVCqvuKeOXm0o
>Audiobook Mega:
https://mega.nz/#F!OdUR3TTS!qnJTHcZEwv-KRiJOq4aRTA!OVsgDJJL

>Mathhammer:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10t6_FO9mTaG8FHY4B7v6hOQgwc3gXxUiIOrMYt16I6M

>Previous Thread
>>60813841
>>
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1st for sadness.
When can I finally play 40k again?
>>
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first for best berry
>>
>>60817976
Go to your local LGS gaming store and meet people to play with
>>
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>>60817985

Hes talking about his pic related,
>>
>>60817976
GK being terrible is a meme. You can run them somewhere around midtier. GMNK and strike boys are pretty solid units
>>
>Go to LGS
>Offer to play a guy who was painting marines.
>He tells me that his green primaris are Blood Angels.
>Call him on his bullshit.
>He gives a stupid explanation on how he is playing a successor chapter, using successor rules.
>Call his bullshit again.
>He tells me a bunch of gay lore about his marines.
>Realize I've heard some of his stuff before on /tg/.
>Call him an enormous faggot, buy some breachers and a devilfish, and leave the store.
You fluff fag losers are the worst sort of players.
>>
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>>60817979
How big is her hole?
>>
>synapse is balanced because it's fluffy and always existed

Is there any worse arguement. Moral immunity is fucking gay and destroys any downside of blobbing/hordes and any leadership counter armies.
>>
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Just finished up a new army and feeling pretty good, how's everyone else's painting going?
>>
So do we know if it's Wolves or Orks first yet or not? Also, how was your last game anons?
>>
>>60818021
You already posted this pasta
Get new material
>>
>>60818028
very puffy, large enough to grab a handful of
>>
>>60818021

>Not wanting your dudes
>Not giving explanations on your recolours or kitbashes working together as a team, even across factions

If the dude likes Blood Angel rules he should be allowed to paint his dudes whatever color and run them, as long as he uses heraldry.
>>
>>60817937
>all that porn
You trying to get the general deleted?
>>
>>60818021
What did he do wrong that you need to antagonise him anon? Based off this you are a massive autist.
>>
>>60818048
Gr8 b8 gm8
Hive Mind's actually underrepresented on the table from my understanding of lore, shadow in the warp should be a little more than a minus 1 to cast if it makes psyker's heads explode near hive fleets in the books
>>
>>60817937
why cant you spend 2 cp to interrupt in the shooting phase when you can in the fight phase?
>>
>>60818013
Im glad I got out of grey knights when I realized how necessary it was to use dread knights. I could never bring myself to do it
>>
>>60818064
Made a ton of bad decisions that fucked me, almost made a comeback but rolled a ton of 1s all of a sudden.
>>
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>>60818089
I have no idea what you are talking about
>>
>>60818095
Because you can't nerf gun line.
Some armies do have that for deepstrike tho.
>>
>>60818095

Because theres no such thing as "shooting back"?

In the fight phase the enemy attacks, then you attack back. In the shooting phase only the enemy shoots, you dont shoot back afterwards, you have to wait until your shooting phase.
>>
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>>60817985
Thats not the problem. I go to my LGS regularly and play AOS and Fantasy with my Bretonnians.
I'd like to play GKs again without instantly losing every game.

>>60818013
Dont know what your local meta is like, but GKs really are shit.

I havent taken my Terminators/Paladins off the shelf since before 2017, and even with 30+ Strikes and several GMDKs I still dont stand a chance against my friends Nids and Eldar.
>>
>>60818048
How about
>synapse is balanced because it's always existed and Tyranids have never been anywhere close to as OP as the broken factions of the last editions like Eldar even when they were good, and have in fact been trash for multiple editions running
Cry more Nightlords faggot.
>>
Post good boards with sufficient terrain to reduce turn 1 alpha strike shootan
>>
>>60818064
If you want to read a bit into this then its Space Wolves and then Orks but no one really knows.
>>
>>60818093
And pyskers should be able to toss tyranid carnifexes around like toys.
Marines should be able to kill hive guard with their bare fists.
And making rules and balancing purely around fluff is fucking retarded.
>>
>>60818113
Stop shitting up these generals. Hard enough to keep people on topic. At least find some goddamn 40k related porn rather than generic shit.
>>
>>60818093
This. When Hive Fleet Kraken approached Iyanden some basic bitch Eldar literally just died from migraines.
>>
>>60817976
I just want terminator squads to be viable
>>
>>60817937
What the fuck are all those Megas?
>>
>>60818048
I agree on the basis synapse is so cheap and plentiful that ‘shoot the big ones’ isn’t a real option.
>brood lord hiding behind genestealer swarm with character rule
>trygon prime and two flyrants covering the gaunt blobs and most of the board

>>60818089
As if janny can tell.
>>
>>60818154
>SW
>orks
>GSC
>battle sisters

what next?
>>
>>60818156
>And pyskers should be able to toss tyranid carnifexes around like toys.
Not in the Shadow, lol.

>Marines should be able to kill hive guard with their bare fists.
No, you are retarded. Tyranids are even more heavily genetically engineered than Marines are. If a Marine-sized organism with that much modification is X strong, than a twice-his-size organism with more extreme genetic traits is more than twice as strong.
>>
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>>60818161
Calm down you prude
>>
>>60818113
At least add some gay porn (for the tau players) and some furry porn (for the space wolf players)
>>
>>60818028
eh if I recall the sauce it's cropped from, this blueberry's berry is well fertilized
>>
>>60818191
SFW inquisitor approved media.
>>
>>60818195
No, anon. It's Space Wolves, Orks, Unknown, GSC, Unknown (plural), Armageddon Campaign, eventually Sisters at the latter half of next year.
>>
>>60818145
>synapse is balanced because it's always existed and Tyranids have never been anywhere close to as OP as the broken factions of the last editions
>at least it's not 7th

This has to be the stupidest arguement ever, that you think just because it always existed, that means its always balanced. You would be implying that since it was created to current day the games rules have not changed in anyway. In any fucking way to possibly make it too powerful. You are such a massive fucking retard to imply this, that I'm astounded how you can type.
>>
>>60818089
oh shit, someone added more?
>>
>>60818195
World Eaters/Emperors Children, Inquisition might get a CHapte Approved list or a full codex, then supplements since GW did say that they had plans to go back and add more to older factions after everyone had their codex.
>>
>>60818145
But they’re pretty top tier now and there’s more factions with moral effecting special rules than ever?

Imagine if there was a faction in hat completely ignored to hit modifers.
>so much for your venomthropes and chameleon skin :^)
>>
>>60818204
Has nothing to do with prudeness. Just that this isn't a porn dump thread. At least the image you posted is 40k related. We get drawfags making lewds (or linking off to straight up porn) every now and then but that's usually semi-on topic.

>>60818235
>suddenly double the megas in OP
No, you think?
>>
>>60818235
7 megas of the same woman, everything shes done by the looks of it
>>
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>>60818127
>>no such thing as shooting back
But that's what a firefight is.

Actually, I wonder what the game would be like if infantry reacted to taking shooting casualties by shooting back at their attacker. And maybe vehicles fired defensive weapons.
>>
>>60818199
>my black library author felates my dudes more.
>Why are we not balancing around what some rando makes up
>he honestly doesn't get this even when marines are brought up, why this is a bad thing

My fan fiction says a marine can, So suck it.
>>
>>60818231
I'm talking about codexes

>>60818246
that's right, I forgot about the EC and WE
>>
>>60818246
>World Eaters/Emperors Children
Included in codex: chaos space marines
>>
>>60818232
And yet Tyranids are balanced currently with modern day rules, too, and the best synapse has been ever. I'm not seeing the point of all this whining. You are either mad that another faction gets something you don't - oh the horror, some actual faction diversity and not the same rules and playstyle for everybody! - or you're playing a shit underpowered faction like Night Lords based around morale gimmicks, which, sucks to suck dude, better luck next time, that's the fault of your army's rules, not other armies'.
>>
How do we fix GK?
>>
>>60818291
>I'm talking about codexes
Then disregard Armageddon, it's Wolves, Orks, Unknown Codex, GSC, Unknown Codices, Sisters at the latter half of next year.
>>
>>60818316
EC and WE are pretty likely
>>
>>60818280
I am not referring to BL borderline fanfic shit, I'm referring to Codex lore.
>>
>>60818295
But CSM codex didn't include all the SHINY NEW UNITS that they're surely getting
R-right?
>>
>>60818313
We roll them into SM codex
>>
>>60818266
What does she look like? I'm at work can't watch porn. Also necrons are comfy af, prove me wrong
>>
>>60818328
Yes, but we don't know the exact order so I didn't bother trying to guess at it, and there might be a surprise snuck in there, too.
>>
>>60818313
Put them back with the ordo malleus where storm troopers are their meat shield and strike cruisers dropping lance strikes, cyclonic missiles, and barrage bombs are their heavy support
>>
>>60818296
>And yet Tyranids are balanced currently with modern day rules
That is your opinion and is ignoring the actual discussion that it's not balanced because it existed prior.

You are as fucking dillusional as the waac fags of 7th.
>>
>>60818313
the first step is to remove the babby carrier

the second step is to get rid of the goofy spread legs stance

the third step is to replace Draigo with someone cool
>>
>>60818272

Firefights are simulated by Shooting phases, your army prepares their weapons and fire. You get overwatch because they are hurriedly readying their weapons for an incoming threat, which is why its 6+.

Surely youve heard of volleys? Thats what 40k is supposed to represent, the army is in sync and fires as one.

While CQC is a big mess, where both sides are attacking as often and as quickly as possible, so you can pay 2 cp for your units to take initiative and strike and you attack in your enemy's fighting phase too to simulate an actual CQ battle

Obviously I can justify it in other ways too. Alternate Activation would have been a nice addition to 40k, because going first increases your chances of winning by a huge margin.
>>
>>60818313
Deepstrike 1d6+3 away, or some similar mechanism for troop delivery
Or better melee
Or more wounds on infantry
Or higher invuln on infantry
Or litterally anything that makes them reliable / not flimsy
>>
>>60818295
For now, until Angron and Fulgrim come out with their own armies just like Magnus and Mortarion did.
>>
I'm a lazy piece of shit who likes to do my own thing and not really care about what happens and only really do things when i feel like it

What SM chapter is for me (or xenos)
>>
>>60818328
I would be surprised if its both this year, one of them might be for next year so GW can spread their profits. I think the last codex of the year will be Inquisition/Imperial Agents in November to coincide with Rogue Trader so you have two reasons to get the box, one for Kill Team and the other to make your own Inquisitorial/Rogue Trader army in 40k.
>>
>>60818331
BL is canon, your average space marine can squash your average tyranid but there are only 1000 marines to fight the 60000000000000000000+ Tyranids in a hivefleet.
>>
>>60818137
>>60818103
local meta is mixed here. I don't doubt that GK have a hard time if your local meta is 2 of the best codexes in the game since like I said they aren't top tier, just not useless. I don't really mind the baby carrier models
>>
>>60818313
Remove the daemon smite buff.
Give them invuln ignoring and low ap but high damage weapons. Make them countet the genetic daemon stat line, then make them weak to the generic daemon abilities and strategies to balance them out.

Remove daemonic incursion maybe.
>>
>>60818380
Ironhands
>>
>>60818221
?
>>
>Apparently 13 Megas of smut
Absolutely degenerate
>>
>>60818364
>That is your opinion
No it's facts based on tournament results, since the Flyrant nerf and rule of 3 nids have not been showing unfair results.

>and is ignoring the actual discussion that it's not balanced because it existed prior
But it is and was. And the argument against changing synapse isn't entirely based on balance either, it's based on design, which is even more important.

>You are as fucking dillusional as the waac fags of 7th.
It's spelled "delusional", fucknuts, and you clearly didn't even play 7th if you think balance right now is anywhere close to as bad as it was then, and ESPECIALLY if you think Tyranids right now are anywhere remotely in the same conceivable fucking universe as the OP stuff of last edition like scatbike wraithknight spam, skyhammer grav and riptide wings.
>>
>>60818380
Grey Knights
Mechanicus Standard Grey Knights that is
>>
>>60817937
>Emperor sayeth: Let there be hot bitches with white hair, bouncy tits and round asses

That was Goge Vandire, not the Emperor tho...
>>
>>60818313
Fix Bolters and Storm Bolters.
Fix Terminators.
Fix the shitty 8th Edition Psychic Phase.
Fix the shitty deepstrike rules.
Fix the fact that the entire game system makes T1 Alphastrike gunlines the most optimal approach to the game.

Desu most of GKs problems stem from the core rules of the game actively working against them.
>>
>>60818340
People are ‘assuming’ that ‘it’s only logical’ that we’re getting else ‘GW will be throwing money away’ but there’s no evidence for any of it.

I think we’ll be getting ultra instinct Gulliman and Grande Padre Ghazghkull before those two.
>>
>>60818057
Fucking gorgeous, anon, I am jealous
>>
>>60818396
Yeah gk paying out the nose for low ap power weapons when their job is to slay armorless, invuln only demons is just absurd. They're so unequipped for their job. Deathwatch using only hellfire rounds are better daemon hunters.

GK used to have invuln ignore on psycannons and incinerators. I think they could really bring that back
>>
>>60818192
This is a fair argument, Synapse was fine when it could be countered and moral wasn't an anti-horde mechanic. Used to be you would focus the synapse creatures and then mop up the chaff. Now you have to cut through however many fearless gaunts before you can target the cheap Neurothrope in am edition where low toughness and save units are more resilient than ever.

Synapse should just be a leadership bubble.
>>
>>60818385
>your average space marine can squash your average tyranid
Yeah because the average Tyranid is a gaunt.

Tyranid Warriors and other medium-sized bugs annihilate Marines 1v1. Hell even Genestealers can, depending on the situation. A small handful of genestealers will murder even a centuries old elite Marine veteran if they get the drop on him.
>>
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>>60818431
The emperor spoke through him.
>>
>>60818404
>>60818429

Reasons? Seems like white scars are the "fuck you I'm doing my own thing" guys next to space woofs
>>
>>60818454
Just bring backlash back so they can’t careless throw out synapse and be immune to game mechanics.
>>
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>>60818057
>tfw have 3 armies and havent even finished one of them
:(

Desu I've kinda lost interest in 40k at the moment, and have dropped all Progress on my Nids and Grey Knights, so I've been focussing on my Bretonnians instead.
>>
>>60818440
>but there’s no evidence for any of it.
Were you not around for the Gathering Storm streams where they confirmed the hints at Angron and Fulgrim in the book were teases of future releases, or around when that one confirmed legitimate leaker told us Primaris Marines were coming before they were announced and mentioned how World Eaters and Emperor's Children were getting updates, or when the studio modeler at a seminar hinted at working on Angron, or... I can go on.
>>
>>60818480
Because you said you were a lazy piece of shit
>>
>>60818462
Na, gaunts are just background noise. BL has marines ripping the heads off warriors. Nids can only beat marines with numbers or surprise.
>>
>>60818422
>No it's facts based on tournament results, since the Flyrant nerf and rule of 3 nids have not been showing unfair results.

Tournie results do no constitute balance and are no way a reasonable metric.

>it's based on design, which is even more important.
And yet you don't seem to understand that by dismissing the design question with "Its always been in 40k". Like if tanks were always cheap. When they moved over to 8th we need to keep them cheap even though they are getting a massive haul.
And see "massive overhaul" to why we need to question fucking synapse.

>you clearly didn't even play 7th if you think balance right now is anywhere close to as bad as it was then,

That is wholy irrelevan't and only used by those that can't handle the idea of questioning 8ths balance. Because "at least it's not 7th.
>and ESPECIALLY if you think Tyranids right now are anywhere remotely in the same conceivable fucking universe as the OP stuff of last edition

Again like waacfags with overpowered armies you say it's okay because it was worse and at least it's not 7th.

I'm not arguing your army is overpowered. I'm arguing you are performing a major disservice to the discussion with all these deflections.
>>
>>60818454
>Synapse should just be a leadership bubble.
Sure, if Synapse Creatures have base Leadership 30.
>>
>>60818513

Generally, yeah, when things don't interest me
>>
>>60818013
Gk is terrible though. I can't think of a worse codex and army.
>>
>>60818422
>tournament results
This meme needs to die
>>
>>60818454
Honestly I'm fine with there being virtually no morale in the game, I just wish that gw would hand out anti horde weapons like candy.
>>
>>60818532
>Sure, if Synapse Creatures have base Leadership 30.

Why are you such a faggot.
>>
>>60818501
>Were you not around when unconfirmed source dropped a hint and my uncle who works at gw who overheard some employees talking
I also heard they were going to bring squats back next year, how you ask? Get this, they’re going to reveal that none other that Abaddon is actually a squat a in a mech suit and so are half the black legion! A confirmed leaker said so!
>>
>>60818246
>old faction
squats aaand?
>>
>>60818527
>Tournie results do no constitute balance and are no way a reasonable metric.
Prove it.

>And yet you don't seem to understand that by dismissing the design question with "Its always been in 40k". Like if tanks were always cheap.
This is a false equivalence.

>And see "massive overhaul" to why we need to question fucking synapse.
But we don't need to question synapse, it's the core identity of Tyranids in the rules.

> only used by those that can't handle the idea of questioning 8ths balance. Because "at least it's not 7th
>Again like waacfags with overpowered armies you say it's okay because it was worse and at least it's not 7th.
You were the idiot to bring up 7th edition in the first place! Lmao

>I'm not arguing your army is overpowered.
Then it doesn't need adjustment. Synapse is working as intended from a design standpoint and you admit it's working fine from a balance standpoint. Glad we came to a sane conclusion.
>>
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>>60818057
Been struggling to get time in since I've been bouncing back and forth all over the country.

Flying to LA in a few hours, but I made some good progress on the METAL BAWKSES so at least I can go happy.
>>
>>60818556
If GW had said "Moral sucks for everyone so we're taking it out" then it woukd be fine and dandy. Instead they went through some kind of retarded process where they decided moral should counter hordes, then got worried that moral countered hordes, so gave horde armies a way to ignore moral. Meanwhile elite armies get to suck and die.
>>
>>60818599
Right let's just dismiss everything said publicly by GW and by people who gave us leaks that turned out to be 100% accurate, that's totally normal and reasonable, you're not being a paranoid spastic or anything.
>>
>>60818556
>I just wish that gw would hand out anti horde weapons like candy.
Thats impossible at the moment because, horde is balanced like vehicles. There is no anti horde statline (Unless you make ap +1) if you ever create an anti horde weapon you are essentially creating an anti meq/teq weapon. You need high volume of fire, there is no low enough quality shot to make it efficient against horde but not against meq/teq.

See Las guns. More efficient against marines than guard. even though they're almost the lowest statline in the game.
>>
>>60818578
I'm not the one bitching about an army having a fluffy rule that it's always had and that has never been a problem. That guy is the faggot.
>>
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>>60818545
>literally the only data we have that isn't based purely on conjecture
>"y-you can't use tournament results! It invalidates my anecdotal evidence!"
>>
So... No kill team Custodes?

I guess I understand but I would have thought they would have included like, young Custodes or the murder games thing they do instead. Basically a kill team of one dude.
>>
>>60818057

>almost 900 dollars worth of Dragoons and Ironstriders
>>
>>60818431
>>60818465
Actually it was Sebastian Thor, aka the guy that spoke for the Emperor during that time.

That said, the Admech, Marines, IG and IN got cucked by a bunch of girls. Shame on you!
>>
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>>60818057

Pretty good, brother. Second SC box in progress.
>>
>>60818610
>Prove it.

Tournies are metas and counter lists.
Imagine telling someone that played magic players they needed to bring a certain card just because someone might bring an otherwise uncounterable strat in their deck. (Think the card is quill).

For everyone else that doesnt play tournies or face these decks that card is meaningless.

The reverse can be seen in 40k where the average player might get stomped with horde or knight spam, but in a tourney that will get culled out immediately. Not only that you need to face multiple lists and armies with varried strats that will eventually counter any lists like this.

And not only that you are balancing a game around 1% of its playerbase.

Will cont.
>>
>>60818631
>waahhhh yur spastic
Ohhh sweetie I’m so sorry, I didnt know you’re so emotionally invested in this.
Again, I’m so sorry, I won’t question anything you say anymore!
>>
>>60818671
They mentioned they're out for being too powerful
>>
>>60818646
Why not weapons that do more damage based on the number of models in the unit?
Like if flamers went back to a quasi template system where you got as many hits as there were models in range?
>>
>>60818601
The following armies have been discontinued or replaced:

Dogs of War (Mercenaries. This army was released in 5th edition and updated online for 6th. The rules were taken down during 7th, and the army listing was deleted on the website, though many models remained listed as part of various armies and under miscellaneous until the purge of metal models in early 2014.)
Kislev (Units were part of the Empire in 4th/5th edition. Had a White Dwarf rules pamphlet in 6th edition that could be fielded as an allied force with the Empire. Models have since been discontinued from Games Workshop at the end of 7th edition. Kislev also had a full Warmaster Force until the discontinuation of that game.)
Araby (Araby was a fully playable Warmaster Force until the discontinuation of that game.)
Beasts of Chaos (Replaced by Beastmen during 7th edition.)
Hordes of Chaos (Split into Warriors of Chaos and Daemons of Chaos during 7th edition.)
Realm of Chaos (Split into Hordes of Chaos and Beasts of Chaos at the start of 6th edition.)
Undead (Split into Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts at the end of 5th edition.)
Slann (Discontinued at the end of 3rd edition and replaced by Lizardmen at the start of 5th edition)
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>>60818021
>Fluff fags are the worst sort of players

Never thought I'd see the day, on /tg/ of all places.
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>>60818670
>literally the only data we have that isn't based purely on conjecture
It has no environmental validity, we’re talking about the average game of 40k.
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>>60818543
slaanesh demons, they are easily worse. Having a tough codex doesn't mean that a well built GK list can't do well against other midtier codexes/builds. You get a lot of shots + good melee on basically everything, easy buff spells, good mobility, and some very tough HQ options. You can win a good amount of games if your opponents aren't all netlists/top tier soup lists but that is true for a lot of armies so it doesn't worry me that much
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>>60818766
Sorry copied the wrong list.
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>>60818610
>This is a false equivalence.

It is in no way a false equivalence.
The change to moral and horde being viable happened from 7th to 8th. You are telling me its okay because it was balanced in 7th.

>But we don't need to question synapse, it's the core identity of Tyranids in the rules.

I'm honestly amazed you are real right now. Are you legitimately telling me that you won't question or balance something just because it's a "core" identity?

>You were the idiot to bring up 7th edition in the first place! Lmao
The discussion started with it being fine in early editions. Are you telling me I cannot talk about earlier editions?

>you admit it's working fine from a balance standpoint.
I'm not. I'm telling you that you're an idiot right now. We need to agree on that before balancing synapse. You goof.
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>>60818646
What about a weapon with 8 shots at strength 2 as a special weapon.
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>>60818652
>ig always spammed hordes of models why do we need to nerf conscripts and moral immunity

That is what you are doing right now with synapse.
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>>60818601
Witch hunters and daemon hunters. Even though both have been replaced by the GK and SoB
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>>60818816
I don't think thats low enough to be efficient against horde but inneficient against anyone else.
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>>60817979
>there will never be a fill version of this
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>>60818816
That'll still shred elite armies via dice volume
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>>60818834
Technically speaking WH and DH are gone, since you can't play them.

At best you can play pretend running Scion, SoB/GK, Inquisitors and Assassins. But with the Detachments restrictions is not the same.
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>>60818787
>You get a lot of shots + good melee on basically everything, easy buff spells, good mobility, and some very tough HQ options.
That's false
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>>60818757
Doesn't nerf guardsmen units in 10s, promotes msu which is already overpowered, and also grossly nerfs marine blobs.

Someone suggested nearby units adding to the roll but that is essentially templates all over again.
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>>60818780
>tournament lists being used by the best players doesn't directly reflect an army's general ranking.
>this general ranking somehow cannot be applied to casual games
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>>60818852
there is a full version
you don't want to see just how full it is
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>>60818852
What do you mean there isnt?
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>>60818773
He's just an autistic fag, don't burden the whole community based on one manlet
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>>60818670
Tournament results are a great indicator of tournament balance.

They're irrelevant for everything else.
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>>60818873
I have played basically every army, and have played GK enough to know that you don't know what you are talking about
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>>60818809
>The change to moral and horde being viable happened from 7th to 8th.
It has nothing to do with the morale changes and everything to do with the AP, wound table, points and cover changes alongside the adjustments to blasts and templates. And Tyranid hordes aren't even overpowered, you're thinking of Guardsmen.

>Are you legitimately telling me that you won't question or balance something just because it's a "core" identity?
It means it isn't the thing that should be touched, but the thing that should be balanced around. There are plenty of ways to adjust balance, removing fluffy core rules is not one of them, there are points costs to play with and other things to change.

>Are you telling me I cannot talk about earlier editions?
Are you schizophrenic or something? You bitch because I bring up earlier editions, then I talk about 8th, then you bitch about how I'm like the people from 7th, then I explain the differences between the current environment and 7th, then you say I'm using old editions to justify modern shit again, round and round in circles. Holy fuck dude.

>We need to agree on that before balancing synapse.
You just stated the army isn't overpowered, ergo synapse doesn't need balancing.
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>>60818886
Yes this is true with any sport.
Also see >>60818723

Tournaments are not an average game, they are fighting multiple opponents with varried lists and metas and such. Any strategy that might work against one guy will not work against the 10th or so guy. The only thing tournaments show is flexibility.
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>>60818895
>>60818887
Pics or it didn't happen.
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>>60818822
That argument would apply if Tyranids were dominating the tourney meta like conscripts did at the start of the edition. But they aren't. Even remotely.
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The all or nothing AP system was good in this case. When you needed to mitigate saves of something but have no effect on everything else. Something like S3 AP5
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>>60818922
>It has nothing to do with the morale changes and everything to do with the AP, wound table, points and cover changes alongside the adjustments to blasts and templates. And Tyranid hordes aren't even overpowered, you're thinking of Guardsmen.

All of this was balanced if moral still existed. I don't see how you don't get this. Vehicles had a ton of rules to change how, they function then got a point increase to balance this.

>removing fluffy core rules is not one of them
Never said we need to remove it. But if we keep it (and the immunity) you need to balance that.

>You bitch because I bring up earlier editions,
Because you use that to tell me its balanced now because it was balanced then. And that you have the same logic as waac fags that think it's okay or fair because fluff and other excuses.

>You bitch because I bring up earlier editions,

Simply stated that I'm not discussing that.
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>>60818916
I only play gk so I know better. I know pain. You are basically talking out your ass. In all polls gk is overwelhmingly confirmed to be needing the most fixing. They are externally and internally fucked balance wise even after getting a codex. Tourney results don't mean jack shit because they try and balance the game so shitter armies arent as bad.
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>>60818938
Because horde/spam is countered by tournaments, unless its grossly overpowered.

That doesn't mean horde/spam can't be overpowered.
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>>60818723
>>60818933
So basically you guys are talking about skew lists being too difficult to fight against with a generic list, and them dominating a small player group because that player group is unwilling or unable to alter their lists in a meaningful way that doesn't turn each game into rock paper scissors?
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>>60818941
The biggest problem is flak armour being 5+ still like it was throughout 3rd-7th instead of going back to a 6+ like it was in 2nd back when they used the AP modifier system that 8th brought back.

Guardsmen should not be surviving a THIRD more bolter shells than they did previously.

The other problem is not enough granularity in a d6. Marine armour should be better than a 3+ but a 2+ is too much and then there's no room for cover to improve it.
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>>60818916
>I've played every army
Lmao post pics of them all then
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>>60818941
Yep. Bigger problem is that AP 0 is the baseline for balance.

Guardsmen and marines are on equal terms at ap 0, anyrhing after that marines are drastically worse. If ap +1 existed marines would be better against that than guard.
But it doesnt.
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>>60818685
>and nobody will have an army quite like it
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>>60819015
Basically.
That And the fact that tournaments are like bringing a bunch of rocks and hoping no one brings paper.
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>>60819008
if you only play GK then you have no frame of reference. GK can compete with midtiers and gets blown out by top tiers. That doesn't mean they don't need help since certain flaws keep them out of top tier competition but it does mean that if you can't take down midtiers about as often as they take you down, then it is on you to get gud.
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>>60818989
So, hypothetically for sake of argument let's say I agree Tyranids are overpowered, then, even though there's no evidence of this:

While preserving the identity of synapse, being a mechanic in which Tyranids are completely immune to morale while benefiting from it but especially vulnerable and disrupted when outside of it, what is your proposed balance change?

Get rid of untargetable synapse characters by making Neurothropes and Broodlords able to be picked out?

Increase the costs of synapse units?

Increase the instinctive behaviour penalties for nids outside synapse?

How would you change it?
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>>60818816
Kills 0.9 guardsmen, 0.2 marines, 0.5 orks, 1 gaunt. Assuming BS4+.

You would need to spam them to even approach anti-horde capabilities, which elite armies would struggle to do. Sure, massed S2 will actually kill hordes better than it will kill marines, but it still sucks against hordes.
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Tourney balancing is pointless.
Balancing around WAACs in a game with this many variables is a pointless endeavour.
Blizz can't balance Overwatch and that game doesn't involve factors like a loadout from 15 years ago or people playing on flat tables
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>>60819079
Why do we care about preserving the “identity” of synapse over balancing the game? Fearless berserkers and daemons run away just like everyone else, just make it so synapse raises every units leadership to 10.
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>>60819079
>Tyranids are overpowered, then, even though there's no evidence of this:
More that moral immunity is bull but okay.

>what is your proposed balance change?
Backlash and allowed synapse control. Make it a bit more strategic than always on. Elect units a model is controlling, have backlash hurt it if it's willing to suffer for moral immunity, have tyranids auto move and charge if they lack synapse (make it possibly a benefit if you get them close enough that they will charge them, like sheep herding)

Anything to introduce space for the opponent to wedge in with -1 leadership, and for you to have some interesting mechanics outside "I ignore moral in a bubble"

Would need fine tuning.
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>>60819124
>Balancing around WAACs in a game with this many variables is a pointless endeavour.

While I do agree I think looking at WAACfags break the game and curb those exploits is a good thing for the game, this game will never be truly balanced but doing this at least good for the game.

My only worry is that they will only look at the tourney armies and ignore the ones that suck, they already did this with the deep strike beta rule that tried to curb some of the top tier armies but it only hurt the lower end far more than the tourney armies they were trying to target.
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>>60819008
I get his>>60818916 point desu.

GKs are easily the worst single codex army, that is beyond doubt by now.

However, GKs "can" still be semi-viable if your opponents are bringing casually built, mid to low tier armies.

I'm >>60818137
My problem is that my meta is filled with mainly players that optimize the hell out of the strongest armies they have. We've got like 5 to 6 nid players, several Eldar and DE, a couple Tau and IG, and some faggots bandwagoning on "Knights Only" armies.
However, there's also 2 Necron players (though they play VERY rarely) that I btfo with my GKs, as well as a CSM player I have yet to lose a single game to.

Also, I have yet to lose against Admech with my Grey Knights, period.
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>>60819124
They can't balance because they have no fucking clue what they're doing. And I don't say that as opinion. Their litteral balance format is "we stick them in a private server, tweak the numbers until it feels right" like they'll have some ultimatum where it's either shit or Overpowered, and they will immediately buff then nerf because they can't see how something won't work in practice.
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This is /ourgirl/ in its purest form, you might not like it but it is fact. I happily welcome our SKELLIGRILL as our saviour. She calls for you to help fight the tyranids, will you answer her call? I know I would.
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>>60818698
Nah, Vandire found them and took them back to Terra to be his personal bodyguard/harem.

Thor dismantled the Ecclesiarchy's military so they kept to Sisters on to dodge around the 'no boys allowed' clause of the Decree Passive. He didn't found them.
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>>60819177
they changed the actual smite rule when it was released to not hurt armies that needed smite. idk why people act like that isn't going to happen again. plus you can just tell the person that your army doesn't work with the beta rules so you aren't using them, they aren't real rules yet
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>>60819074
I see.
I guess I'm lucky in that my player group is large and skilled enough that we routinely alter our lists for the prevailing meta at our store. Generally we don't consider anything broken unless it absolutely dominates tournaments, as that will also be reflected in the win rates of the players at our shop who run those lists.

The problem with your situation is that your player group is too small to the point that your meta consists of too few lists, and thus you lack overall balance amongst your players.

Your situation is the exact situation that GW SHOULDN'T be balancing for, as you have so few players you may as well be playing narrative games. My suggestion for you is rather than complaining about the balance of certain armies, you instead talk to your fellow players about what you'd like to see on the table to try and ensure everyone is having fun.
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>>60819124
You should balance the game to the extent that only deliberate combos are OP. Some factions or units being blatantly superior or hard countering others is shit.
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>>60819202
meh
she wore out her welcome a decade ago
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>>60819142
>Why do we care about preserving the “identity” of synapse over balancing the game?
Because you need to do both at once or you might as well play tic tac toe, or play a different army. Because fluffy rules are the ones that are most wel-received and desired by the fanbase, there's a reason one of the main recurring criticisms leveled at 8th is being too bland. Rules exist to represent the lore. Sometimes abstractions are necessary, but they are necessary EVILS, not desirable unless they are providing a grossly disproportionate benefit to the gameplay.

And you still haven't even made a convincing argument that synapse is in any way imbalanced or in need of change AT ALL. But I offered several potential balance solutions that don't destroy the intention of the rule and what it represents, and you seem unsatisfied with them, which tells me you don't actually care about balance, you just don't want another army to be immune to morale, regardless of how thematically fitting or ingrained into the identity of the faction it is.
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>>60819079
>While preserving the identity of synapse, being a mechanic in which Tyranids are completely immune to morale while benefiting from it but especially vulnerable and disrupted when outside of it, what is your proposed balance change?

Scrap moral immunity and instinctive behaviour. Make it a leadership bubble that also grants a 4+ save against moral casualties.
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>>60819216
>when it was released to not hurt armies that needed smite

Except for warlocks. Who have a shitty 1 wound smite. Which they then proceeded to double the point cost of. then nerf their pyschic powers, oh and you can only take 3 of them now.

Let me tell you how fucking bullshit that faq was to warlocks. I have no idea what gw was smoking because there was almost no God damn excuse for what they pulled. No one even thought they were OP. It was so random

I am still fucking mad.
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>>60818057
How did you get so much money anon
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>>60819273
That doesn't preserve the identity of synapse. Go back to square one.
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>>60819197
I feel like GK can do well against knights and if they make every single charge could probably have a shot against DE since kabal units get fucking rekt by falchions and low AP shooting. I have only played one DE match with GK though and they had an optimized list but no real experience playing DE. Although playing a lot of armies is ass when your whole meta is nids n eldar
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>>60819225
>players about what you'd like to see on the table to try and ensure everyone is having fun.

So balance the game for gw.

And I dont admit you're right. I was simply trying to agree with the point that tournaments do not account for balance. You sneaking in "well you don't play enough" is not what I wanted to agree with.
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>>60819202
She looks cute.
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>>60819034
S3 AP+1
With 40 hits
10 guardsmen killed, 40 points removed
2.22 marines killed, 26 points removed
1.11 termies killed, 40+ points removed (depends on type/equipment)

40 hits, or 80 shots at BS4+
more effective against guardsmen than marines, but 8 shots to kill 1 guardsmen sounds a bore
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>>60819202
shes shit
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>>60819165
>anything to introduce space for the opponent to wedge in with -1 leadership
But these are exactly the sorts of abilities Tyranids should be immune to.

Next you'll be telling me vehicles should be vulnerable to poison and everything should be able to charge Flyers at all times and Sisters of Silence should be vulnerable to psychic powers.
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>>60817937
Guardfag here. Interested in maybe doing a squad as pic related to see if it comes out - maybe add more if it works. Any ideas on conversions and relevant bits to get my Guardsmen looking like proper henchmen? Wings optional, though would be awesome.
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>>60819250
Synapse is super imbalanced dude, just consider there are entire factions balanced around the idea of being able to cause moral checks.
It’s like a faction that flat out ignores all negitive to hit modifers vs eldar.
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>>60819078
There is no single worse army with a codex in the game right now. Polls prove this. End of story.
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>>60819279
No one cares what you think the identity of synapse is though. I could easily say the identity of ultramarines is to be the best and most well connected faction but that doesn’t mean I should be allowed to get all my wargear for free even if it doesn’t make them tournament meta.
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>>60819333
>just consider there are entire factions balanced around the idea of being able to cause moral checks
Almost like when you have a game with over a dozen asymmetrically designed factions that each have their own fluffy niche, some of them are going to have bad match-ups and they need to live with this fact.

Night Lords being shit doesn't remotely begin to justify changing the ironclad thematic rules on a much bigger, older, more popular faction.
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>>60819299
>I feel like GK can do well against knights and if they make every single charge could probably have a shot against DE since kabal units get fucking rekt by falchions and low AP shooting. I have only played one DE match with GK though and they had an optimized list but no real experience playing DE. Although playing a lot of armies is ass when your whole meta is nids n eldar
I can tell you from experience that you dont have a chance against either.

The only thing that works vs Knights is GM Dreadknights with a 2++ or a character with a 3++ (Draigo or a GM/Voldus with Sanctuary), or a huge blob of Paladins with Hammerhand.

However, the Paladins are too expensive, slow and unwieldy, and are rather squishy for their points (even with Sanctuary), and will get blown off the board within a turn or two.

GM Dreadknights and our Characters get hard countered by a single melee Knight with the "Squeeeze that motherfucker" stratagem. Bye Bye Invuln save, here are 15 Mortal wounds.


DE are simply too cheap and too fast for us. It doesnt matter that a troop of 5 Strikes could technically kill a Venom and then its inmates without too much trouble, the problem is that he has two venoms full of dudes for every Strike troop I have, and he can zoom the fuck away if I dont make my 9" charge.
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>>60819314
Extra caveat was that any weapon modified 1+ is an auto pass.
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>>60819379
>No one cares what you think the identity of synapse is though.
I'm not stating opinions, I'm stating facts based on the design of Tyranids going back every edition, and the declared intentions of the writers in their interviews and design notes (they used to include these sorts of things in old codexes, in case you weren't aware).

Tyranids are build around the concept of synapse. In synapse, they don't suffer morale. If you kill the synapse, they are more vulnerable to morale than average. It's a mechanic that balances itself out by design, and requires the enemy to play around it.
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>still whining about synapse a thread later
Jesus people calm down, this entire thing started because nids can take a t4 4+ creature in killteam

>>60817942
That wasn't me and I'm aware of the retardedly low odds
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>>60819320
>But these are exactly the sorts of abilities Tyranids should be immune to.
Why, if you say fluff, no you're wrong. It's a mechanic an opponent uses, unless you would think it's okay for them to have an "moral immunity ignore"
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>>60819078
Gk have to bring their absolute best against even casual mid tier lists. And even then they barely have a shot. Stop talking out your ass. Imagine a Gk list without dreadknights. Absolute dumpster fire of an army.
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>>60818670
>Ultra competitive try hard net listers waac fags are the only reliable source for everyday 40k players
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>>60819403
>Night Lords being shit doesn't remotely begin to justify changing the ironclad thematic rules on a much bigger, older, more popular faction.
It does. Otherwise eldar should never be nerfed
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>>60819441
>Why, if you say fluff, no you're wrong.
No, I'm not.
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>>60819316
Your waifu a shit
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>>60819443
Yup, yup, and yup. They’re pretty much unplayable, the big FAQ was the big guy to break our backs.
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>>60819460
Eldar need to be nerfed when they are overpowered.

Tyranids are not overpowered. And even if they were, and did require nerfs, synapse would not be one of them. There are a thousand and one ways to nerf something that's too powerful, you don't do it by destroying the entire concept of the faction most core and iconic fluffy special rule.
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>>60819207
Daughters/Brides of the Emperor is a different thing from SoB and SoB from the Order of our martyred lady

SoB are a post Vandir creation. In fact he got murder by the non SoB that later turn into SoB
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>>60818057
Who was the commission painter?
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>>60819471
Rude
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>>60819446
>list compositions and strategies used by tournament players cannot be applied to casual players lists, nor can the results of said tournaments give an idea of the general usefulness of certain units and armies.
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What's the lore behind minotaurs that make the so hated?
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>>60819403
Here’s the thing my dude, they’re only ironclad in your mind. If you want fluffy then I suggest 7th, 8th is meant to be more balanced and that unfortunately sometimes means supposedly fearless units are going to be effected by moral for the good of the games balance.
And I’m not just talking about nightlords.
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>>60819521
That's a man anon.
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>>60819521
I hope when plastic sisters come out we get new porn.
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>>60819532
Correct, because tournament play does not use normal 40k rules.
Have you never actually looked at the ITC rules?
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>>60819425
>guardsmen are build around the concept of blams. In blam, they don't suffer morale. If you kill the blammer, they are more vulnerable to morale than average. It's a mechanic that balances itself out by design, and requires the enemy to play around it.

Why did they nerf conscripts.
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>>60819532
tournie meta =/= casual play
tacticals wouldn't be such great sellers otherwise, or marines in general
adb mentioned this too, competitive types make a very small part of the playerbase
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>>60819564
That just makes it better.
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>>60819425
Except you often can’t kill the synapse because of character rules, it’s unfair to have your faction completely ignore an integral game mechanic.
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>>60819570
Does she actually do hardcore porn?
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So how does my paintjob look? I wanted to give it more then the 3 colours Baneblades are painted with, and now it looks sorta dutch.
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>>60819303
If you don't play competitively in a game which has a visible competitive element to it, don't complain when the game isn't balanced towards a small group of competitive players.

Either counterplay the army that's crushing you or talk to your opponent about not bringing the units you have a problem with.

Those are your two options.
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>>60819570
>pious erection
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>>60819564
No its not.
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>>60819532
Because they dont, they are lists designed to fight multiple armies. People will lose to horde in tournies, many laugh and are surprised because they know they will get wrecked when they fight someone that counters their horde focus.
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>>60819521
Do you think Sororitas wear frilly knickers or just plain utilitarian ones?
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>>60819549
>let's just rape the lore and make 8th edition even more bland and homogenous for "balance" reasons even though this army isn't even overpowered, because I want my morale gimmick to work against every single possible match-up and won't branch out and design an actual TAC list
No.
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>>60818704
pretty!
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>>60819613
They only wear them on their heads
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>>60819613
Do you think they shave down there is the better question.
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>>60819578
>>guardsmen are build around the concept of blams
Except they aren't, that's not a factionwide special rule with a further factionwide drawback special rule that kicks in when it isn't present.
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>>60819596
is it operated by squats?
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>>60819490
Don’t be so melodramatic, a slight synapse nerf nerf isn’t going “destroy the concept” of Tyranids, it’s just going to bring them in line with other factions.

Prehaps you don’t think they’re a little too powerful but they’ve a been nerfed several times already and in my option need one more to deal with the synapse problem.
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>>60819613
Depends on the order.
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>>60817937

Had an awesome game today,was a Guilliman mirror match.

>End of game, turn 5
>We are even on victory points, our warlords are both Guilliman and are one of the only units we have left alive
>I decide its time to charge
>Guilliman charges Guilliman
>My Guilliman stabs his clone in the chest
>-2CP
>His Guilliman stabs my Guilliman in the chest as a final act of defiance
>Both of our Guillimans ressurect
>His turn
>His Guilliman stabs my Guilliman
>-2 CP
>My Guilliman stabs him back, both die

Made me imagine the most retarded imagery, two huge titans stabbing eachother over and over with huge swords, dying, then returning to life just to do it again.
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>>60819613
Nothing. Damn if I can find the lore about it, but it was implied that SoB get lube up with some sacred oil before putting an under armour for the power armour.
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>>60819589
Idk.
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>>60819521
>Reverse Search
>Informs me this is a 'Girl'
>>60819608
>Reverse Search
>Informs me this is 'Cosplay'

Shitty fucking Google machine-spirits need to get their shit together.
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>>60819197
soup em up so they won't be as shit
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>>60819543
They’re basically owned by the high lords and their job is to fuck up loyalist chapters that step out of line.
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>>60819578
>why did they nerf conscripts
Look at the one ork player who just squatted orks on objectives and won via VP
Now image that but with conscripts and the fact that IG has several ways of ignoring morale.
And conscripts were EVEN CHEAPER then boyz.
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>>60819599
I don't list tailor or build to counter metas. I play for fun and try to play a balanced army. If my opponent is using spam I tell them I won't play with them more. But I shouldnt have to build to counter that if I fight him again. It shouldn't be viable, mostly because it's an unfun design choice.
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>>60819627
Of course they shave, into a fleur-de-lis shape obviously.
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>>60819606
Fapping for the sake of pleasure is considered non-heretical only when it involves Sisters of Battle also only if said Sister are also not partaking in heretical things for the sake of ones own fap.
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>>60819670
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>>60819587
>Except you often can’t kill the synapse because of character rules
So adjust the Characters, like I suggested already >>60819079

And it's not unfair, it's flavourful asymmetric design.
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>>60819628
Cheap units that get blamed when they fail moral. It is very fluffy and well known lore.
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>>60819633
Why Squats?
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>>60819642
>it’s just going to bring them in line with other factions
They're already in line with other factions in terms of balance.

This discussion is entirely moot, anyways. There were people like you doing the same stupid shitposting and whining about nids in the index rules thinking synapse was going to get nerfed in the Codex, and GW realized you people are fucking retarded and made synapse even stronger. It's not going anywhere, ever. It hasn't stopped being morale immunity since 1993.
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>>60819647
But who won, or was it a tie in the end?
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>>60819665
You should check replies for context anon.>>60819686
>So adjust the Characters, like I suggested already
Can't do that because it's a fluff rule to make characters look cool on table.
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>>60819692
Yes, and yet blamming them has never been complete immunity to morale before, in lore or in crunch, it's just a mitigator, and neither is in an iconic faction-wide rule, it's just the special ability of one model.
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>>60819657
Souping doesnt solve a thing, since there's nothing a GK unit can do that a different Imperium unit couldnt do better.

The reason I'd never go soup to get a stronger list is because at that point I might as well just sell my GKs and start a new army entirely.
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>>60819250
different anon.
I understand the fluff behind synapse working the way it does.
You can't really remove synapse without breaking it, and we can't add more anti horde to the game because it ends up hurting non horde stuff even worse.

I think the solution is for certain models to get a rule which causes damage to bleed over when multi damage weapons are fired at them. It would work something like
>if a weapon that does multiple damage is fired at this unit, roll the damage dice (if there is one) before the wound dice, and make a number of wound rolls equal to the damage.
This rule would represent firing an explosive or penetrating weapon at a faceless horde which is packed tightly together.
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>>60819686
>And it's not unfair, it's flavourful asymmetric design.
That’s 7th edition, the whole point of 8th is to make the game more balanced and you’re going to have to accept you may have to forge the narrative around why some things you do don’t make sense from a lore perspective.
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>>60819596
try again with better lighting

it doesn't look awful, oddly enough
>>
Ready to learn?
This is a sponsored messaged by your friendly neighborhood 1d4chananom.
>>
>>60819712
Thats exactly what happened with guardamen as well. Doesn't make it right and they are easilly deserving a nerf.
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>>60819669
I'm confused because people keep calling this edition bland, while saying that people should have options for building their armies taken away, which would only add to the blandness.
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>>60819724
And Shoot The Big Ones is a fluff rule with precedent, too. Just give Broodlords the same ability Patriarchs have to shrug wounds off onto Genestealers on a 4+, let Neurothropes do the same with Zoans, and you're all set. Now instead of being untargetable you can pick them out and half the wounds will get through, while the others will still do damage to their specific restricted bodyguard units.
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>>60819678
Thats an awfully furry tattoo above her belly button there.
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>>60819279
Fine, if you absolutely have to have moral immunity even though it's now a completely different mechanic

>Synaptic backlash
Whenever the last model in a unit with the Synapse rule is removed, roll a dice for every model that was in Synapse range of that unit. On a roll of 6 that model's unit takes a mortal wound.

Big stuff like a Carnifex will be mildly inconvenienced, hordes will lose chunks of models.
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>>60819731
So you're telling me because it wasn't existent in prior edition it doesn't have any precedent. Even though it's fluffy.

So it needs to be in a edition prior and be fluffy? That is your metric for balance?
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>>60819695
The colors make me think of squat vehicles.
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>>60819769
It's a birth defect, dont bully her
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>>60819712
You can’t just dismiss everyone you disagrees with you as a shitposter. This is an issue I and I know may others have contacted GW about.

Tyranids aren’t balancedcand have had to be nerfed several times already. Things change over time and you’re going to have to accept that.
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>>60819770
This is a much better solution, although possibly unnecessary given that once synapse is removed they will suffer far more from morale. But I wouldn't be against playtesting that if it were demonstrated that Tyranids are overpowered.
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>>60819767
Well first off different anons different states /tg/ isn't one person. And blandness doesn't mean ability to change weapons and ability to spam.
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>>60819724
>context
You were asking a new question
I was answering
No 'context' required.
You should have stated "THEN why did they nerf conscripts". That way I'd have known that you were in a discussion that was deeper then "why did they nerf conscripts" question
The english language, fun stuff ain't it?
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>>60819768
So you want to make those weak characters targetable instead of tweak moral immunity?

Alright.
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>>60819798
sisters were made for bullying
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>>60819571
>>60819580
>>60819611
Then either talk to your opponent, or build a list towards beating the prevailing meta, even if that meta is only 2 people.

Don't complain about casual balance in a game balanced around competitive play.
>>
what do you think of recasts, /40kg/?
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>>60818021
You can't be a Tau player. They aren't good enough for shitbirds to play in 8th.
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>>60819822
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>>60819678
FOR THE THOUSANDTH TIME, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH WITH THE MINGE PICS SISTER SALACIOUS
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>>60818057
I love it, especially the dragoons. They're much too expensive dollar wise for me to use them, I'm jealous! The army is beautiful and the bases with trees are great.
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>>60819770
Would rather have the other way around whete the synapse model takes mortal wounds when they horde dies.
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>>60819647
8th edition was a mistake
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>>60819838
Report me to the mother superior and see what happens
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>>60819806
>there should be more strict and limited army building guidelines, resulting in lists looking more and more similar to each other with less and less variance
>this doesn't somehow contribute towards making the game more bland.
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>>60819807
I'm not going to explain why you're proving me right by telling me the post i made was wrong if you can't read the reply.
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>>60819802
Tyranids had to be nerfed once because Flyrants were overpowered, as they have been ever since the game decided to completely throw out the FOC and let you spam HQ units that are supposed to be restricted in number.

Notice how they didn't touch synapse because that wasn't the issue at all and never has been?

You can keep emailing GW all you want, they get a thousand emails of people whining about dumb shit every day, they get complaints like that guy making the petition to delete Space Wolves from the setting because furries trigger him I guess, they get complaints that their Terminators aren't literally immune to gunfire outside of titan killing weapons, they get complaints that Tau don't have army wide 2+ ballistic skill re-rolling 1's with the ability to either shoot twice or shoot and then fall back out of line of sight.

Trust me anon, synapse is not going anywhere, you're going to have to live with the fact that not every match-up in this game is ideal for every unit composition and sub-faction.
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>>60818048
>>60818232
>>60818454

just fucking delete the neurothrope and you've fixed the problem, its not fucking hard to kill warrior primes or broodlords with snipers but the neurothrope is a bitch.

there is nothing wrong with synapse because its all nids get as far as bubbles are concerned. most every HQ in the game has a buffing ability, whether its marines rerolling hit/wound dice, overlords giving +1 to WS, BS advance and charge or warbosses letting you run and charge, nids have synapse to let them ignore moral to make up for the fact that their horde units are the worst in the game on a per point and per model basis, thats why they get to ignore it from a gameplay perspective.

that being said, they should revert synapse range back to being 8" base with tyrants getting 12" and swarmy keeping his 18". so they'd have to pack synapse tighter and it would be harder to set up contingency.

t. necronfag
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>>60818766

RIP warmaster: the best game for large scale engagements that didn't cost a fortune

Like epic

I see why gw got rid of them the bastards
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>>60819823
>Don't complain about casual balance in a game balanced around competitive play.

More like a casual game being balanced around 1% of competitive players.
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>>60819868
>having restrictions in any form prevents unique rules from flourishing and being made

And the restrictions also stop popular spam lists that everyone plays you chuckle fuck.
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>>60819870
If I'm proving you right, why the hell you getting so defensive dude.
I'm just saying work on your english, I could care less about you conversation
Even this post I'm replying to is a bit of a headache to read, is english not your first language or something?
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>>60818788
post the right one
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>>60819871
>Tyranids had to be nerfed once because Flyrants were overpowered,
How is that possible, tyranids weren't overpowered in previous editions.
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>>60819872
>its not fucking hard to kill warrior primes or broodlords with snipers

Not every army has snipers though.
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>>60819878
This is an old and uniformed argument that has been made for basically any mildly competitive game, be it tabletop or vidya. Non-competitive normies don't give much a shit about the rules or winning, why bother balancing for them if they don't even know how to properly use half the rules?
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>>60819901
>why the hell you getting so defensive dude.
Because you're like the guy that replies seriously to rhetorical question or doesn't understand a joke.
>>
Just make marines cheaper. Drop everything in power armour by 3 points and everything in terminator armour by 15.
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>>60819915
Well sometimes jokes and rhetoricals are told incorrectly and need to be pointed out
You really ought take that stick out your ass anon.
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>>60819913
Because if the game is unfun and unbalanced for 99% of the players it's bad? They might not care about balance but OP/UP armies will be felt no matter what. See orks.
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>>60819878
that's how it works.
Balancing around competitive players makes competition balanced. Casual players have the option to discuss with their opponents what they do and don't want to play against.

Balancing towards casual players utterly breaks competitive play, as competitive players don't get to tell their opponent not to bring certain models. It results in tourney organisers having to ban certain things, which only further divorces casual from competitive play.

balancing towards competitive play ends up with the game being more balanced in general and doesn't end up with a bunch of shitty units that got obliterated by the nerf hammer because casuals who only play once a month couldn't handle it and complained.
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>>60819749
Question, right on the tin.
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>>60819906
Because, unlike synapse which has remained more or less the same, they changed Flyrants.
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>>60819948
How do I have a stick up my ass if I know what a joke is. You sound pretty upset for being stupid my dude.
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>>60819952
Balancing a game isn't done at "levels of play".

Any change that makes a game more balanced makes it more balanced for everyone, be they casuals or not.
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>>60819963
>Casual players have the option to discuss with their opponents what they do and don't want to play against.

Tournies have that. And because they're so intune with balance they can do that easilly. Again the game shouldn't be fixed by players for the majority of players, playing the game as intended.
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>>60819972
You say you know what a joke is yet you keep replying.
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>>60819963
>as competitive players don't get to tell their opponent not to bring certain models. It results in tourney organisers having to ban certain things, which only further divorces casual from competitive play.

Thats litterally what they do all the fucking time.
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>>60819952
>the game is unfun and unbalanced for 99%
You aren't 99% of players.
Most players are at least a little competitive and thus benefit from the game being balanced from a competitive mindset.
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>>60819970
Changing the general rules changes how synapse works.
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>>60819216
>Implying the september FAQ will buff GK/Black Templars/Vanilla Marines

I honestly cant see that happening, there will only be disappointment.
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As with most lore, the Alpha Legion's name comes from religion (and not from the ancient Greek alphabet?). The two Primarchs, Alpharius and Omegon, represent the line Jesus said in Revelation 22:13: "I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." But as Omegon is meant to be a secret, the legion is named after Alpharius. If Omegon was to be the face rather than the secret, the Legion could possibly have been called the Omega Legion. Or in other words the "last" legion which conforms to your "needing sense in a name" thing.

Adherents to the stories of this Legion make addle-minded claims that prove their insincerity, such as: all marines in this legion were surgically altered to look identical to their Primarch; that the Emperor himself gave this Primarch command over campaign forces above that of the Lord Commander of the Imperial Army; even power fantasies such as the existence of more than one Primarch in this Legion; and other tall tales that defy belief. Most heretical of all is the claims that these Primarchs betrayed his holiness the Emperor of Mankind willingly without being corrupted by Chaos, which conveniently excuses their absence from the Eye of Terror and thus any observable evidence of their betrayal with the other traitor Legions.

It has also been suggested that the Legion, their Primarch, and their symbol may be based on the star Alphard, in the constellation of Hydra. What's more, Alphard means "the solitary one", but it has a much less bright star "hidden" behind it. If this was intended, considering that "Alpha Legion", "Alpharius" and the hydra motif have been around for a lot longer than Omegon has, it means that Games Workshop has been playing a very, very long game. Meta.
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>>60819980
>Balancing a game isn't done at "levels of play".
Sure if they don't balance around tournaments. Which they shouldnt
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>>60819998
Yes, because those models were balanced with casual or narrative play in mind, which generally results in that model either being incredibly op or up.
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>>60819908
every army can either get snipers or doesn't fucking need snipers

ork hordes beat nid hordes in a 1v1 every single time so they don't have to worry about shooting the neurothrope making the squad fearless.

>chaos can spam psychic powers out of the ass like nobodies buisness and can tie up nid hordes an entire game with their own respawning disposable chaff hordes, also daemonettes.

>any fucking imperial army having issues with a prime or broodlord can buy a vindicare and make the problem resolve itself, it works too since both creatures are fuckexpensive enough that buying a vindicare just to kill them isn't an awful deal.

>necrons shit all over nid hordes with both overlord buffed tesla immortals and the Iconic silver tide warrior strat.

>tau firewarriors will take a monstrous toll on nid hordes, and triple flamer battlesuits are actually perfectly worth it in this situation.

>THE DRUCHADI are never going to be caught by a nid horde in the first place, what with them being a mechanised murderboat force, but if you're determined to be that one guy who takes massed kabalites it actually isn't terrible against hordes.

>eldar struggling with hordes.
>ever.

honorable mention goes to grey knights who are crippled in every matchup so they don't count.

everyone else is a literally who army.
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>>60819331
Don’t forget about killingers super guys. Could work in a unit of guild troopers or sormthing
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>>60820002
They're not tournie competitive and don't play at that level
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>>60819274
I think the dark reaper warlock combo is what people hated, but instead of dealing with the actual problem they wrecked a different unit
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>>60820052
They look like they're made of cheese
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>>60819965
What happened in the construction phase? It looks like parts might fall off. The paint scheme itself is just odd. The colors on each half pair with each other, but together it looks like just an example of pastel colors on a paint stick at a hardware store. Having some of the colors meet in the center rather than be divided by the hull of the model might improve it, but it's still going to be a bit odd since orange is the opposite of blue and the green doesn't really pair well with the red and orange
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>>60820012
No, it doesn't.

Whether morale is model-by-model or unit-by-unit, immunity is immunity. The morale changes this edition weren't even that big.
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>>60820030
they did that for titan stuff, and other costly things in the FW indices
reece was whining for a bit about how they might need a powerlevel ban because of some FW stuff and boom, CA happens and stuff that wasn't even good was spiked in price
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>>60820030
Tournaments are large and visible. They provide a huge amount of data as to which units and armies are too good or not good enough, and this data is gleaned without any sort of emotional baggage attached.

How would you have gw balance the game? By listening to whoever cries loudest on Facebook?
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>>60820030
You use tournaments to find out what is the most powerful, because casual players don't try to use the most powerful things intentionally. Then you nerf those things which are too powerful, thus improving the game for everybody.
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>>60820022
The more you know I guess...
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>>60820037
Yes which is good?

99% of the players get balanced for.
1% that know how to balance for what they want can remove and ban for their own level of play.

Everyone is happy. Whats The problem?
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>>60820078
>No, it doesn't.

Yes it does.
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>>60820055
>I'm bad at the game so a gun that auto headshots my opponent feels balanced as it makes up for my lack of skill
>nevermind that even adding a small amount of skill to this equation makes this gun utterly broken.
>but that's not my problem because this gun makes the game fun for me.
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>>60820022
04:00 - The Alpha Legionnaires emerge from their - ++Information confiscated by orders of his majesty's most Holy Inquisition++

04:20 - The Alpha Legionnaires settle down to pray to ++Information confiscated by orders of his majesty's most Holy Inquisition++

05:00 - ++Information confiscated by orders of his majesty's most Holy Inquisition++ - causing much confusion among their serfs.

06:00 - Morning Firing Rites. The Alp- ++Information confiscated by orders of his majesty's most Holy Inquisition++ - the serfs are still left largely bewildered.

10:00 - Covert Sabotage. The Alpha Legion practice their covert warfare. Serfs are still confused on which is which.

14:00 - Tactical Indoctrination. The Alpha Legion are tasked on which pla- ++Information confiscated by orders of his majesty's most Holy Inquisition++

15:00 - Daily Facial Surgery. The Alpha Legion undergo daily surgery to continue to look like their Primarch.

17:00 - Eveni- ++Information confiscated by orders of his majesty's most Holy Inquisition++ -ge, that and the serfs are still confused.

18:00 - Covert Sabotage and something involving ++Information confiscated by orders of his majesty's most Holy Inquisition++ .

22:00 - Evening Malal Meal. A feast is prepared by the serfs who are still nervous on which Alpha Legionnaire is which as they try their hardest on picking the correct one, especially when it comes to dietary requirements.

23:00 - ++Information confiscated by orders of his majesty's most Holy Inquisition++

24:00 - The Alpha Legionnaires goes back to sleep in thei- ++Information confiscated by orders of his majesty's most Holy Inquisition++
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>>60819278
By not doing much else with my life save for work and warhammer
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>>60820068
You look like cheese
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>>60820086
By understanding their own game and not basing it off of tournie results.

Which is pretty evident they lack this understanding, when you can see them constantly create units/options which are directly worse for no reason.

I'm honestly amazed how many of you defend this practice. It almost seems like elitism, like people think it has to be good because tournie players are good.
>>
I'm gonna be playing a sort of shooty tyranid army, and I'm really nowhere near ready to play anything. I've got a box of nids and a trygon made, what's something that i'm going to *absolutely need*
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>>60820141
I wish
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>>60819506
No commissions here, why pay for an army that won't be Mydudes
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>>60820105
The game ends up with no sense of internal balance, players in casual games will have to ask players to not bring op models more often because they won't get nerfed. Balance will be all over the place because casual players all have different skill levels which can greatly account for a unit being used in a broken or unintended manner.

You basically end up with 7th.
>>
ultramarines can field squads of intercessors in 3 from the easy build kit
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>>60820120
>I make a gun that requires a butt load of skill with huge pay off
>comp players abuse It with their aimbot skills
>gets nerfed to be equal other guns in the hand of an aimbot, and absolutely shit in anyone elses hand

Gg
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>>60820071
I'm quite autistic, and built the wrong hull without realizing it. I'll gladly take the advice on colours meeting though, and it should be better when it's done. Thank you.
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>>60820162
>The game ends up with no sense of internal balance,

Thats litterally what's happening because of tournie balance see >>60820149

And how about you don't balance based entirely off skill. No balanced game does this, it's mostly internal mechanics that are none skill based And independent of the variable brought to the table.
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>>60820149
>using free unbiased data to balance your game is bad
>gw should be able to predict any and all imbalances before a codex is released.
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>>60820194
>use data that gives the wrong impression
>well it's free, what's the problem
>gw should be able to design a game that's not shit

You're also putting words in my mouth.
I don't think I've said not use, I've said don't balance based off this data. You can find some outliers, but tournies don't show the best/op army only the most flexible.
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>>60820172
>abuse it with skill
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>>60820138
What kind of job generates that much disposable income?
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>>60820237
>what are sniper rifles and any thing with an insanely high skill floor
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>>60820172
>abuse it with their aimbot skills
So we should punish someone for being more skilled than a casual shitter?
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>>60820270
Meant to reply to >>60820241 and *skill ceiling. I've seen this so many times. Skill based shit is rarely balanced unless its less dependent on the outcome.
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>>60820279
>we should reward someone endlessly when they're better with mechanical skills

No we really shouldn't.
If you dribble well you dont win at basketball, you win by scoring points. My analogy is a bit off though, hard to think of something like this. Only know a few games with skill not immediately winning encounters.
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>>60820150
>shooty nids.

you're going to want to pick up either an exorine or a tyrannofex, I'd recommend the exorine because plasma is king these days and its BS is better anyway.

pick up a bunch of termagaunts to bubble wrap the big monsters, if you're feeling saucy you can throw in a couple of devourers into the squad but keep in mind that each devourer costs as much as a new gaunt so they get expensive quickly.

you'll want some synapse to keep the bubble wrap where its supposed to be, flygrants are good but also expensive so keep that in mind, they are good at shooting though.

carnifexes can fill in any holes in your army you may notice, if you want more anti tank fexes with Heavy venom cannons can do pretty well and quad brainleech fexes put out a lot of horde killing dakka, they're pretty adaptable.

as you're making your army bigger you'll wanna pick up another exorine, they're really good.

this is pretty much all I know about shooty nids, I play behemoth so I ain't got much experience with them.
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>>60818431
Do sisters dye their hair, or is it bleached from their enviorment/training?
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>>60820312
>scoring points doesn't take skill
Holy shit dude, think before you post.
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>>60820038
Holy shit, give me a minute to unpack this

>chaos can spam psychic powers out of the ass like nobodies buisness
You're seriously suggesting psykers as a counter to synapse. This is enough to call you a retard straight off the bat.

>tie up nid hordes an entire game with their own respawning disposable chaff hordes
That's not a counter to synapse

>daemonettes
W E W

>vindicare
4 turns to kill a Broodlord or Neurothrope, 5 to kill a Prime.

And it's not even worth continuing.
>>
Feel like no one ever played a casual balanced game, that they don't know how much fun they can be.
>>
>>60820312
You're basically arguing for a system in which individual skill or achievement is never a factor, nor is it factored in when balancing the game.
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>>60820150
>6 Hive Guard minimum are mandatory
>1-2 Exocrines/Tyrannofexes
>30 strong Gaunt hordes with a mix of Fleshborers and Devourers, usually 10-15 Devourers per squad
>Dakkafexes with double Devourers for Anti-Infantry, Venom Cannon+Deathspitters for Anti-tank
>Neurothropes to keep synapse
>2-3 Flyrants for grabbing objectives and harrassing your opponents

These are all the basics for IMO the best shooty (and IMO best overall) nid lists you can make.
Can even go add in some shooty warriors if you feel like it.
>>
Dan Abnett's Blood Games, provides a version of the relationship between the Astartes and Custodians. Abnett claims that, although Custodians are slightly larger on average than Space Marines, to an observer it would be a tough bet on who would win in a fight based on strength and size alone. Which is at odds with the Burning of Prospero in which one squad of ten Custodians lead by Constantin Valdor kill more than one thousand members of the Thousand Sons legion without suffering even a single injury, Valdor was described as being near a Primarch level fighter so he most likely added to that tally greatly.
>>
Why would he wear Vraks and Badab inscriptions on the banner? There was no honor in those wars.
Vraks was meaningless, it was a fruitless waste, not a glorious victory. The whole reason for the conflict - Vraks' munitions stockpiles - were completely used up in the siege! Same result as an exterminatus, but accomplished by drowning the world with loyalist blood.
Badab is even more of a dishonorable mess. Astartes murdering astartes. And because of what? Because of shitty imperial bureaucracy and petty bickering. What did Badab war accomplish? Turning a competent loyal chapter into bitter renegades and chaos worshipers, not to mention devastating the whole Maelstrom Zone. Doesn't sound like a deed worthy of victory laurels to me.
>>
>>60820346
Did I say that?
Did you also see the part where I said mechanical and bad example?

Maybe you should read buddy
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>>60820352
My games are all semi-casual and balanced, which i attribute to GW balancing based on competitive play.
Tryhards can bring tourney lists and they don't dominate.
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>>60820379
Some what.
More mechanical skill and the gap should be drastically tone down. And that's for videogames. 40k has a different problem.
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>>60820414
Tournies lists aren't all that OP.
Just flexible.
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>>60820412
>scoring points isn't a mechanical skill
>knows it's a bad example and counter to his argument, posts it anyway, and gets butthurt when he gets called out on it.
>>
>>60820349
you don't need to counter synapse, you need to counter the horde.

spamming cultists counters the horde.

and if vindicares don't work just take rattlings, last I checked they put out mortal wounds like nobodies buisness for pennies.

or just take guardsmen for chaff.

also jesus is the vindicare really that bad? I don't play imperials so I've got not that much experience with it.

actually just take rangers with transuranics' those things kill my overlords often enough, they should have no problem with nids.

except neuro's, they're shit.

>not even worth continuing
you can just say you've addressed my errors anon, you don't have to pretend that you skipped over orks becuase they have no issues.
>>
>>60820349
also, thanks for the (you)
>>
>>60820446
Well in basketball it is. But one mechanical skill doesn't mean they should be rewarded with points. Like if there was less mechanical skill in getting points why would you reward dribbling?
>>
>>60820456
>you don't need to counter synapse, you need to counter the horde.
Isn't the entire point of hordes chaff for big stuff?
>>
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actually how much do vindicares actually cost, I'm curious now.
>>
>>60820382
>>60820316
Thanks. I really like the firearms that the tyranids have, so I wanted an army that I personally enjoyed looking at. Hive Guard are a little expensive (dollar wise as far as what you get) but I guess it makes sense because i've yet to see a lot of HG ran in the battle reports I've seen.
>>
>>60820388
Was that book any good?
>>
>>60820471
So do you think that winning in tournaments isn't a skill? Even if it's not mechanical, getting the most out of a unit is a skill. The same few players place high in tourneys over and over. Are they not skilled?
>>
How come DA's cant take Centurions?
>>
>>60820440
right. And gw has been showing a trend of rewarding flexible lists and nerfing meme lists, which means a general movement of all lists towards tac lists.
>>
>>60820502
90 points, they are shit tier
>>
>>60820539
Uh.. wow there's a lot to unpack.

Technically 40k has less mechanical skill yes. I also never said 40k is like that in tournies, only that video games should be balanced like that.
>>
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I have no idea why paint is so shitty with the fill tool nowadays, but fuck it

this is my first attempt at tinkering with a color scheme for my Primaris Word Bearers successors. Loyalists named the Revelators, and presented by Belisarius Cawl as Ultramarines successors. I used slate gray, matching the pre-Heresy Word Bearers, and a monochromatically complimentary blue, and a complimentary grey-gold for trim.

Mark II helm because I was hoping to go for a knightly theme, and at least as a callback to the Great Crusade. I might go with capes, too.

Conceptually, they take from both the Word Bearers and the Ultramarines, and they're a bit like the Black Templars in their adamant zealotry. They root out heretics, specifically, and give them a single opportunity to recant their heresy and kneel before the Emperor. They're deeply pious and hold life sacred, but do not hesitate to annihilate those determined to oppose mankind.

Rough idea, I came up with it at work today. I'd like to think they'd piss off both Lorgar and Guilliman just by existing.
>>
>>60820503
Hive Guard are probably the single best unit in the nid book.
>>
>>60820567
>give them a single opportunity to recant their heresy and kneel before the Emperor
Yeah, not happening.
>>
>>60820556
Yeah but they still need to know the game instead of balancing based on tournie out crops.
>>
>>60820567
>loyalist WBs
lel
>>
>>60820492
just fucking take a bunch of anti tank, slap the bigstuffs shit from a distance while your hordes and their horde murder eachother in the middle of the table.

besides the most dangerous nid in the game is the flygrant, which needs no chaff because it can fly and spit murder on its enemies. any min maxing tourneyfag won't take hordes because more room for flygrants.

apart from that you've got the exorine which is admittedly a pain and the tyrannofex which is less of a pain. other nid big stuff is just kinda shit.

I tend to just have two doomsday archs and a lord sat at a backfield objective blocked off by the amazing regenerating warrior/ghostarch/cryptek combo with 10 deathmarks in reserve and an overlord leading tesla warriors, add destroyers and tomb blades to season. it works pretty well actually.

>>60820558

you say that but a broodlord is 163 points base, you could afford to take 2 and kill the fucker in 2 rounds and it wouldn't even be a waste.

neurothropes are stupid cheap and stupid tough, they should have stayed a troop choice upgrade.

primes are 100 points entirely naked, 2 isn't a terrible investment.
>>
>>60820586
Not a thing in 42k? No biggie, it was just an idea.
>>
>>60820574
After looking at what is called the "impaler cannon", I'm inclined to agree. I've never played this game, but it seems they are like a sniper unit with how devastating that gun is.
>>
>>60820567
don't use the secondary color on hands/feet/knees/leg plates
>>
>>60820598
>Primaris made from Traitor legion gene-seed

Not new, pic related
>>
>>60820388
Blood Games is a comparatively old short story, back when the power levels of the Custodians were still unclear, so it is basically retconned in comparison with the new lore.
>>60820517
You can find the short story collection it's from easily online, and I think it's also in the megas.
It's alright, and does describe how custodes can sneak around and act as assassins and spies despite being 8-foot tall giants. [spoilers] It took me way too long to realize the "flasehood" cloaks they were using was a shitty pun [/spoiler]
>>
>>60820616
they can sit behind LOS blocking terrain and 360 noscope enemy light vehicles. they are the bane of my existence.

buy 6
>>
>>60820562
but that's my point. They win because of a certain skill set. That skill set lends itself towards any game of 40k regardless of whether it's a tourney game or a casual game. More often than not that skill set will be the determining factor in games, casual or competitive. Since that skill set is the most prevalent determining factor in the outcome of most games, shouldn't the game be balanced around that set of skills since it will effect the most games?
>>
>>60820654
Curve the living bullet.


...can i put a biovore next to them.
>>
>>60820632
What actually makes these emperors children?
Because everything I’ve read there makes it seem they’re just Fists
Is it just the paint scheme and the name
>>
>those megas
W E W
>>
>>60820599
I'd agree with you IF vindicares had a "always wound on a 2+" rule so that if you run out of Broodlords to kill you could start taking wounds off of bigger stuff. As it stands they only wound infantry on 2+, for everything else they rely on S5.
>>
>>60818113
One cheeky porn mega was perfect, Anon. Now you done goofed.
>>
So, necrons. I'd really like a c'tan shard. they're all pretty cool models that pump out mortal woulds and pack a mean punch. But I don't want to take a 200+ point unit and just present it to my enemies. Deceiver + lynchguard or a plob of flayed ones sounds like fun, but that's a 500+ point investment either way right there.

my understanding is that the main close combat necrons are
>lynchguard
>praetorians
>wraiths
>scarabs
>flayed ones

obviously they're all quite a bit different form one another, but which one is you favorite?
>>
>>60820616
And thats not all.
>36" range is decent enough
>2 shots at S8 AP-2 Ignores Cover is pretty perfect vs anything in the game
>D3 Damage means they bring the hurt
>dont need LOS so you never fear retaliation
>have a stratagem that lets them shoot twice
>get to put out 24 S8 AP-2 Dmg D3 shots per turn
>literally a "delete this" button

They're incredible.
If your opponent doesnt kill or neuter them by T3 latest, you've won the game.
>>
>>60820672
the day of the bugspray cannot come soon enough.
>>
>>60820704
I said i had something special.
I'll add one more of pure 40k porn and then leave it.
>>
>>60820593
They learn how the game works in practice by watching it get played. They learn from the most skilled players what combinations of units dominate, and which tactics work best. They then decide, based on that data, what changes to make.

I would like to see them pay attention to units that never see play as well, because that is a clear indicator that those units are underpowered, but that's a different part of the same discussion.
>>
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Who do you pick?
>>
>>60820670
Yes the skill of knowing the game and it's mechanic. But your performance shouldnt enhance that much because of your skill. Should modestly increase but playing the game in the way it was intended should win you the game.
This intended game play style should also be generally fun.
>>
>>60820708
>>60820711
So, if i were to say.

on top of that.

Deep strike a Trygon and a full unit of Pyrovores into the front line of the force.

Do I even need termagants.
>>
>>60820743
>ork
>british accent
>>
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>>60820654
*laughs in plagueburst*
>>
>>60820708
How do I kill something like that as a gunline that doesn't ignore LOS?
>>
>>60820768
Are you under the impression it's anything else?
>>
>>60820777
Fliers, I assume.
>>
>>60820694
wait what, what the FUCK!.

they hit on two's wound infantry on two's, and ignore invulns! that thing will deal about 2 wounds a turn consistently to neurothropes for 90 fucking points, two of them would kill a neurothrope a round almost, they'd obliterate hidden synapse units with ease.

also a large amount of beefy important nid bits are actually infantry, warriors are infantry, hive guard are infantry, tyrant guard are infantry, the nids have lots of beefy infantry vindicares could hunt.

I'd totally take a pair If I run imperial just to fuck with peoples HQ's. I mean maybe people don't consider the damage they do to the enemy army when the HQ dies?
>>
>>60820743
Necron
>>
>>60820791

What if I'm basic bitch admech and i don't have anything with wings and too poor to get chickens
>>
>>60820819
Get to higher ground.
>>
>>60820819
Infiltrate cawl and robots
>>
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>>60820673
Fulgrim is often referred to as a Phoenix in one way or another (often as a title)

Belisarius Cawl, creator of the Primaris Space Marines, confirmed he had successfully created marines from all 20 (even the lost) founding legions, before Guilliman forbade him from doing so.

The Sons of the Phoenix bare many similarities to the pre-Heresy Emperor's Children including an association with the mythical phoenix, a similar chapter symbol, and partial purple/gold color scheme. Purple + Black + Gold colours, Crusades that appear to be spectacles, sons of the Phoeni(cian)x and Chapter symbol displaying a black wing with a Chaos Star beside it, they're Emperor's Children, anon.
>>
>>60820777
Flyers or other LOS ignoring units are the only way to effectively kill Hive Guard.

Funnily enough, the army that hard counters Hive Guard the best is GKs due to Astral Aim Dreadnoughts having superior range. On average rolls, a Wallhack Dread can kill 2 to 3 Guards per turn. Sadly, we counter everything else they have :( I know that as both a GK and Nid player.

>>60820759
>Deep strike a Trygon and a full unit of Pyrovores into the front line of the force.
You need to be Jormungandr to do that, since Trygons can only take troop infantry normally. However, the Jormungandr stratagem lets you take non-troop infantry too.

>Do I even need Termagants
Yes, as meatshields to protect your Hive Guard and Neurothrope babysitters from melee attackers and deepstrikers.
>>
>>60820819
Heavy Grav Cannons?
>>
>Playing only war with friends
>My character gets pinned while low on health so I run to cover.
>Person playing as the commissar shoots me and forces me to burn a fate point to survive while there are greater enemies to fight.
>Tries to say it is in character to shoot a ranged weapon specialist moving to cover while pinned and almost dead.
>The other players mention it to other officers which gets the commissar reprimanded for wasting bullets and time harming an experienced guardsmen for using cover.
>Commissars player also gets penalty checks for a good while when interacting with other guardsmen.
>Commissar player tries to act like this is a terrible punishment for doing nothing wrong since he was trying to command a small squad of people to charge and hit a fortified bunker with their swords.
Sometimes I think the commissar memes are going to far.
>>
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>>60820627
better?
>>
Hey guys, I'm looking to get into 40k, is there a physical difference between space marine miniatures? For example, if I buy Ultramarines, is there anything stopping me from painting them into Blood Angels? Thanks.
>>
>>60820865
Wrong thread friend.
>>
>>60820743
>tech priest has no negatives

score
>>
>>60820862
and Neurothropes are in the Venomthrope box?
>>
>>60820757
which is exactly what balancing based on that skill accomplishes. By balancing units which players who possess high levels of those skills use to win tournaments, you make that unit less exploitable. When they decide that a list with 8 flyrants is too powerful and enact the rule of three, they are preventing your local tryhard from bringing his flyrant spam list to your casual game shop.

Since tournaments are constantly happening if they see a new unit rise to the top and consistently dominate they will nerf that one too. Over a long enough time frame this will work its way down to the stuff that dominates at the causal level because that stuff will now be dominating at the tournament level.
>>
>>60820872
No, there are a few restrictions on vesicles, but none on models.
Paint away
>>
>>60820831
I wish
>>60820864
Does it ignore LOS? I'm imagining a hypothetical scenario where the nids are camping behind a wall lobbing shit at my bots.
>>60820830
Basically, yeah.

I was thinking of dropping in Sicarians to deal with them, but they might not kill any or be able to drop in, and I don't have any right now either.
>>
>>60820872
nothing at all; sometimes they'll have iconography molded on, though, ie the Blood Angels blood drop with wings.
>>
>>60820654
>light vehicles
That str8 makes even knights and baneblades start shivering at those 24 shots
>>
>>60820909
>I wish
If you dont own cawl or boops, why are you playing admech
>>
>>60820865
I don't know anon, he sounds like a shit commissar to me, they can't all be yarric or the HERO OF THE IMPERIUM.
>>
>>60820872
mp. only size difference is primaris marines are bigger.
>>
>>60820910
>>60820905
I appreciate the help
>>
>>60820872
The only difference is that you get abs on Blood Angels.
What's your to-buy list, anon? Unless you have a very clear idea on what models you like and want to get, It's a good idea to get some critique from the anons here since they know the best bang-for-your-buck models, especially if you want to stay semi-competitive.
>>
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>>60820913
I play necrons, all my vehicles are T6.

...yeah, think about that.
>>
>>60820897
Yes. You can technically only build one, but you simply make three Zoanthropes and count them as Neuro's.

Neuro's are the perfect synapse creature imo.
>cheap as chips
>nearly impossible to kill thanks to character rules, a 3++ and self healing
>great support rules to buff itself
>fantastic caster, can smite into units that are being bogged down by your gaunts in combat
>can fly over other units if you ever need a quick getaway, and is surprisingly fast since you'll never not run

One box of 3 is perfect, you'll definently use at least one, but never more than two or three.
>>
>>60820917
I've got both, and you can't infiltrate bots or Cawl, mate.
>>
>>60820897

Yes.
>>
>>60820913
>Plagueburst takes 7 wounds

lol
>>
>>60820872
the short version: no
long version: some space marine chapters like blood angels have their own special pieces. nothing stops you from using the normal space marine parts, but the different pauldrons, helmets, and chest pieces make them a little more unique.
so you could absolutely paint https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Terminator-Close-Combat-Squad as blood angels, but https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Terminator-Assault-Squad has some extra, clearly blood angels parts
>>
>>60820954
I finally have pretty decent idea as to what to buy.

But what's the best shooty hive adaptation?
>>
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Salutations, imperial citizens. I'mooking for Warhammer 40 000 Crusade of fire pdf compaign, it seems to be hard finding a copy. No torrents, no scribs, not even folks at vk have it, or on chan's drives.
Does anyone here has it? can only find this. https://thecrusadeoffire.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/crusade-of-fire-campaign-v-1c.pdf Note, its not the whole thing.
>>
>>60820973
you cant do cawl, but if they are lucius or stygies you can do bots.
>>
>>60820920
Gotcha, thanks
>>60820949
Nice, I figured I'd get the starter set because I know I want to play a space marine chapter and the price is solid compared to some of the other bundles GW has, plus it'd let me try out chaos marines/allow a friend who isn't into 40k try it out.
>>
>>60821002
probably the one that lets you reroll 1's to hit if you don't move, the one which makes you always in cover is alright too though since it doubles the survivability of your gaunt shield
>>
>>60818137
Marines are just as bad if not worse unless you want to play one of the mainstream chapters - specifically ultra smurfs. If you want to play any of the broken legions or any of the lesser known chapters you have 0 support.
>>
>>60820973
You can for the bots.
Real your own codex
>>
>>60821032
I appreciate all the help!
>>
>>60820900
>which is exactly what balancing based on that skill accomplishes

There's not really the same kind of skill in 40k as vidya to be fair. This is kind of wholy unrelated. There's not much of a skill cieling.
>>
>>60820994
Ok, interesting, thanks for the example
>>
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>>60817937
So I'm working on my first knight and I'm gonna run him as a freeblade with two armigers. I'm wanting them to be WWII bomber themed with big noseart on them and some nice WWII themed pinups on the knight.

Does anyone have any recommendations for what colors I should go for? I'm thinking just gunmetal grey to really get that bomber feel but I'm afraid it will be too boring.

Picture unrelated.
>>
>>60821002
Kronos for Damage, Jormungandr for survivability.

Kronos Warlord Trait for Anti-psyker, Jormungandr for Ignores cover.

Kronos works best on longrange stuff like the Hive Guard or Exocrines. Jormungandr works best on shortranged shooting and infantry, like carnifexes and warriors.

Special mention to Jormungandr Carnifexes.
FUCK
These guys are fucking evil, trust me. 115 points is retardedly cheap for a monster with this damage output, and the defensive buff makes them frustrating as fuck to play against, since you can have like up to 6 of them. A T7 W8 2+ save monster with -1 to hit rolls that doesnt degrade is nasty.
>>
>>60821090
Please make it a SoB pinup
>>
>>60821090

Olive or tan drab could work as well.

>run him as a freeblade

Don't actually do this.
>>
>>60820743
Necron is the obvious choice here. Silent body guard I'd call him Sammy. He wouldn't care if I talked too much or anything plus I turn into a necron when I die? How awesome is that.
>>
>>60821051
>bots have to be Stygies
>cawls buff is only relevant to Mars
>your 240 point model is now completely useless
You're technically correct, but it makes the entire strategy useless
>>
>>60820324
Dye hair and just one Order.
>>
>>60821151
That has nothing to do with what i said, I think you meant to reply to another post.
>>
>>60821051
Should've specified that you can't do both, and there's not point infiltrating dakkabots either since they'll take a -1 to hit with no Cawl to rectify it.
>>
>>60821081
tournaments are the skill cap. Like I said, the same small group of players consistently place high in tourneys. People who emulate their lists can do better in casual games even though they have less skill, therefore nerfing elements of those tournament lists which consistently overperform will cause those less skilled players to win less often in casual play, and allowing casual players to beat the tryhard with the tournament list.
>>
>>60821179
*for Lucius, and if you're infiltrating kastelans for stygies, just plain why when you can just drop in priests or chickens
>>
>>60821033
Ultrasmurfs are good enough for obvious reasons.
Ravenguard are also pretty great desu.
Salamanders are definently workable, and honestly the only chapter that can make Tactical Marines actually work.

SMs are a decent mid tier army, honestly.
Shooty Dreads and Devastators are fucking fantastic, and really well specialized, have access to a ton of rerolls and other buffs. Bikes are decently killy and fast, good for taking objectives, just as Intercessors are tough as fuck for their cost and scouts are fantastic for zone denial.

Sure, you wont beat a WAACing top tier list, but SMs are definently more workable than GKs if you use the best units available to you.
>>
>>60821105
Of course. I’m also thinking of doing shark teeth on one of the armigers.
>>60821110
Why? Freeblade rules look fun and fluff wise I can’t justify a knight house with pinups on their knights.

Hmm tanor olive could work... are there any knight houses with a tan or olive color scheme I could look at?
>>
>>60819124
And all the other editions were balanced around casual play.
>>
how viable is putrifier+plague marine blight grenade spam?
>>
>>60821188
So these players that are bad use good lists to play well?

Don't even know if that's true.
>>
>>60821090
Camoflage on the upper surfaces

Light blue on the lower surfaces

No, it doesn't make sense
>>
If you absolutely must get into 40k then the starter faction is Space marines. They're the easiest to paint and the most forgiving on the battlefield. Everyone uses them because they come in every flavour you could ever wish for.
If you want the Primaris or Deathguard pick up the boxed game half you want on ebay (or just the box if you have 2 people wanting to learn). Other wise you want a start collecting box of the faction you want.
Go to your local game store and ask if any one could do a 40k demo. Say you're interested but would like to try it first. Either a staff member will run you a tutorial or they will tell you when game night is and get you involved with the community where one of them will run you a demo game. This is how games usually spread around clubs so it's nothing abnormal and you're not some pleb to bully.
If you do decide to get into it then buy from the store or any store associated with the club you attend. You will be paying more than online but you want that store to remain open or club to stay around. Supporting a local store fuels members into the community. If you're buying a large order (say £100ish) ask if they could do you a discount. They can't match the 15-20% off you will see online but you will likely get 10% off (don't expect this but I've seen it happen often).
Don't buy GW's dice, they're a rip off and you can't be sure they roll properly due to designs. Buy a set of chessex dice, most game shops sell them by the counter.
Don't buy GW paints if you can get Vallejo. Vallejo are better in every way possible and cheaper.Make sure you buy a rattle can primer. It's pretty much vital to getting a good paint job. I like Army painter primers, they're cheap and common. I included a link to Doctor Faust, he's a very good teacher. It'll teach you how to prep and paint your models. tl;dr clean them up, glue them together, prime, base coat, highlight and wash. That's all you need for fully painted

You're welcome new comers
>>
>>60821264
They use good lists to make up for their lack of skill. If x is broken and wins tourneys and they just copy paste the list, then they are defacto using the most unbalanced, most powerful units which will generally do well with little to no skill behind it.
>>
>>60821030
Are you set on running BA and space marines?
If money's a concern, you can actually buy a 1000-point (enough for a pick-up game at your local store) Primaris army for less than a SC box if you split the Dark Imperium box and First Strike/Know No Fear box with a Death Guard player, although you won't really be able to play that as a BA army since they're a heavily assault-orientated army, whereas you'd get a more gunline army out of those two boxes.
If you're set on BA, then I recommend trying to dig up a Death Company Strike Force box, or if you like Sanguinary Guard more, a Golden Host box, which is more available.

Word of advice, unless your local GW is struggling, don't buy from them, get your models from other hobby stores that'll offer discounts. I'm guessing you live in the US?
>>
>>60821260
10 marines kill two rhinos if you also stack arch contaminator with votlw.

Problem is you need to use buckets of cp
>>
>>60821258

>Freeblade rules look fun

Ehhh you're getting an "ok" quality (even the best one is randomized), and some burdens that will absolutely cripple your 500-600 point investment if you fail your test. Weary Machine Spirit is just fucking horrendous, and Haunted by Failure is too.

The fact that you have to either pick TWO of the other, not as bad but together pretty damn bad, or risk rolling one of those absolute game-ruining burdens...

The benefits do not even come close to outweighing the risk.

You can still totally claim him as a Freeblade, if you have a problem with it fluffwise just don't declare him to be in one of the existing houses so you can't use any house specific stratagems or relics for him.
>>
>>60821321
But most tourney winnings lists aren't broken. They're just well rounded.
>>
>>60821258
The Freeblade 1ualities are mostly inferior to households, and the burdens range from annoying to debilitating. Also armigers can't be Freeblades, so will miss out entirely unless you give them a tradition. Which you can, but then you might as well give it to the knight as well.
>>
>>60821411
Why are you trying to grenade spam rhinos to death?
>>
>>60821429
Yes. Right now they are. For a while they were meme lists like 8 flyrants.

And most of the games that I've played since have been pretty balanced.
>>
>>60821445
>armigers can't be Freeblades
huh
>>
>>60821507
Mortal wounds out the ads, they deal 2 damage each, they wound on 4s and can easilly reroll. Not optimum but neet
>>
>>60821429
GW forced it with rule of 3. It's actually suprising how sensible they were about it.
>>
>>60821445
>Armigers can't be freeblades

What? I don't think that's right.
>>
>>60821616
They can.
>>
>>60817937
new thread ladies
>>60821659
>>60821659
>>
>>60821559
>>60821616

Nothing stopping them from being Freeblades, but nothing gained, unless you want to blow the one election for Qualities and Burdens you get per detachment on one.
>>
>>60821220
How do Salamanders make tactical marines work better? I haven't played the game yet but I vastly prefer the tac marine models over scouts or primaris, so if I ever do I'd like to play an army that features them.
>>
>>60821411
I'm a newfag, can you explain what arch contaminate and votlw are please?
>>
>>60821570
Which is why I woukd rather roll up on Guilliman and kill him in a single volley.
>>
So this has been bothering me for years, but I never asked anyone to get their opinion.
>FOR MORE THAN A HUNDRED CENTURIES THE EMPEROR HAS SAT IMMOBILE ON THE GOLDEN THRONE OF EARTH. HE IS THE MASTER OF MANKIND BY THE WILL OF THE GODS AND MASTER OF A MILLION WORLDS BY THE MIGHT OF HIS INEXHAUSTIBLE ARMIES.
>HE IS THE MASTER OF MANKIND BY THE WILL OF THE GODS
This line has always confused me. Isn't the whole point of the Emperor that he was mortals that transcended that through the whole mind-merge thing and defied the Chaos Gods? Or is it supposed to sound Grimdark, implying that the Emperor is just doing the will of Tzeentch and the others?
>>
>>60821289
I disagree on paints. I gdubs paints are good paints
>>
>>60817937
what'd you guys think of gladius?
>>
>>60821722
The single wound and hit reroll per unit works best on small MSU squads that each carry a single heavy or special weapon.
Which is exactly how you wanna kit out your tactical marines, a combi weapon on the seargent and a heavy or special weapon for one of your other dudes.
>>
What are some good anti-Khorne Berzerker units for Necrons?
>>
>>60822148
anihilation barges
scarab swarms
destroyers
wraiths
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Speaking of necrons, is the doomsday ark any good?
I've been starting a necron army and since I have no heavy support yet I've been thinking of getting one but I've been hearing some mixed opinions.




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