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Waiting Edition

Previous Thread >>91827113

>Rules and Teams
https://wahapedia.ru/kill-team2/the-rules/introduction/
https://ktdash.app/
>Brief team summaries if you are wondering who to try out next
https://files.catbox.moe/ebvg4p.png

>Homebrew teams by a kind Anon:
https://mega.nz/folder/RedyyTTZ#hNv1fp2Yocqg536MozmbyA
>Tournament stats the game is balanced around:
https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/theodor.kivist./viz/NewKTstats/StatsDashboard

>News
>New Bheta-Decima rules and approved ops:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/rNurVM2YgdZNsFOP.pdf
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/N4AFcOajScAlStbZ.pdf
>Mandrakes and Night Lords are going to hide in each others' shadows soonish
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/19/lvo-2024-preview-kill-team-descends-into-a-world-of-nightmares/

>Q4 2023 Balance Dataslate
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/hjPWHBsQiYwmccLL.pdf
>FAQs and Errata
https://www.warhammer-community.com/kill-team-downloads/
>Critical Ops
https://kt-critical-ops.netlify.app/

>TQ
Do you use old terrain for kill team?
>>
>>91869435
>tq
Real men don't use any terrain for Kill Team
Do your battles on the field of butterflies
>>
>TQ
Kill Team is my first miniature wargame, so generally no. Octarius was my first ever terrain.
>>
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Tournament done since a few hours back, it was an intense 9 hours. 4 games, 3 wins, 7th place out of 24.
Despite that, I'm not super happy with my own performance. Not in terms of placement mind, just that I didn't feel as fulfilled as I have from previous tournaments. I'll be brief.

First game was against compendium sisters, seen in pic related before I send in the melee squad. Surprisingly the infiltrators failed to score a lot of kills, but I mired them enough that he was just stuck slowly losing operatives. I had some good saves on T2 with bulwark imperative which helped me attrition him. Game was a win by several points.

Game 2 against Breachers on Bheta-Decima. This one was far more interesting, as he performed better than expected with a team that unsuited to the killzone. We had extra scatter terrain around to help with cover for the tournament. It was a rollercoaster of failed dice, starting with a failed jump test on the first charge and culminating in my leader first soaking a charge from an axejack rolling garbage and then failing to kill a gunner in melee. Pulled out a victory just barely, but I forgot about the infiltrator ploy for forward deployment which could've earned me 5VP practically for free. Obscurement-ignoring was restrictive but the breachers managed to somewhat play around it.

Third game was against Scouts, and his inexperience with the team showed. He made the same mistake I often make of exposing his leader for kills and ate a blast that killed two operatives as a result. Won quite hard, he just couldn't break through my melee vanguard in time. I did get one nicely timed double activation where I removed 3 scouts, but it was one-sided enough that I don't know how necessary it was.
>>
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>>91869851
Pic related is the failed jump test, who knows what I'd've pulled if I could have crossed that gap. Operative still scored 3VP before the failed charge so he definitely did his part.

4th game is the interesting one from a learning standpoint. Corsairs opponent on nachmund, a guy I've played against before using both breachers and inquisition. I knew about his aggressive strike capability, so when I placed my leader forward using the infiltrator ploy I figured he either goes for my team and leaves the leader alone, or takes out the leader and his momentum towards me is diverted. I underestimated his ability to keep pushing though, severely. Leader was effectively dead for nothing. I then traded a warrior for his gunner, a nice exchange, and turn 2 started.
Then he won initiative, and got the perfect attack. Corsairs leader moved in followed by his starstorm duellist, and eliminated 4 operatives. When I got my first T2 activation, I had 5 models left. It was unrecoverable unless I got god-tier luck, which I didn't. Very fast wipe after that.
I believe I made some team choice and prep mistakes mainly. Getting my leader killed for free-ish is one thing, and I would've likely been better off with a vanguard leader for the double activations, but I had other issues.
First, I tried to beat him into submission with melee beatsticks. After noticing the lack of impact from the infiltrators, I started pivoting towards bringing more ruststalkers. Better hitting, faster with the equipment, and I had no major reroll use against corsairs. Unfortunately, with every corsair operative being good in melee, they dealt damage and then perished horribly real fast, with no real option to just remain in melee.
Second, while recon tac ops served me well in the first three games (recover item is so broken man), seek and destroy would've been much nicer against corsairs (headhunter is practically free against them). I just autopiloted to recon without thinking though.
>>
>>91869851
>>91869970
Your team came out looking so good. Also a great set of battle reports as usual.
>>
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>>91869970
Definitely a few things to do with it being my first set of games with the team, and the autopilot choices of options was likely a result of being tired combined with 3 games of very light resistance.

It was a bit disappointing though, because it gave me 3 games where I won by just playing the fundamentals and didn't really have to try, followed by a game that was over so suddenly that I barely got to play it. Aside from the hilariously bad luck in game 2, there weren't really many noticeable plays for me to make.

About the team, man, they feel strong. The first three games as mentioned were mostly me running in my sicarians to deal as much damage as possible. This stopped my opponent from advancing much, and by the time they had dealt with the rather tough melee units, my ranged batteries were ready to step forward and follow up. Easy rerolls on a lot of things or a 7" move characteristic made the team very active and reliable. Basic guns are noteably dangerous, and the team has a lot of weapons outputting 4 damage hits which suits the game meta atm (8 wounds and good saves are pretty common in my experience). Movement buffs and obscurement ignoring make them good on BD, free mission action sources make them good on ItD. At least they don't get any sort of grenades. Clearly not fool-proof as demonstrated in game 4, but once you get around the wordy abilities they're simple and very powerful.

Pic related is me setting the oven to 300° before chopping up a few scouts.
>>
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>>91870083
>>91870059
Was about to get to the team paintjob and conversions actually.
It was 100% worth it to paint these guys instead of the lightly kitbashed scout squad I had as an alternative. Everyone had praises to sing about the team, and while I lost the painting competition to the void-dancers player who had some really cool ideas in his paintjob and a better execution of the details, putting on a show with these models was the best part of the day.
Pic related is them put on display during the lunch break next to the SoB I faced in the first game. The model that was singled out the most was the Arc Rifle gunner, I think partially because of the corrupted cogwheel sprouting some chaos spikes that I painted as its robe art. It was more of a general appreciation of the team as a whole though, how well the two kits fit together and the simple but effective colour blocking making it so cohesive.
A resounding success. I'll wait with painting the scouts for now, I've had enough of painting bone white for a few weeks at least.
>>
Currently planning on fucking around with some interesting looking styrofoam packaging and turning it into a Bheta Decima board
What are other's working on?
>>
What’s the most glass cannon faction in the game? I want to nuke things while being as fast as I can

>>91869455
Found the pathfinders player
>>
>>91869435
>TQ
Of course
>>
>TQ
No I mostly use newer GW terrain. Any advise for Blooded? I ran them for the first time. TP 1 went well and I thought I set up operatives well. TP 2 I couldn’t roll hits or saves rolls for shit. TP3 it was essentially over even though it was tied. Team wiped and TP 4 opp was able to clean up with a resounding lead.
>>
>>91870495
nice foot
>>
>>91870497
Any of the eldar teams do "hit hard, move fast, die faster". Hand of the Archon probably does it best next to Harlequins. Never played Blades of Khaine so I can't quite say how well they fit into that archetype
>>
>finished painting all my teams (hunter clade, deathwatch, daemons)
>done spending money, done sitting at the painting desk. Finally have the 3 I wanted
>head to the FLGS to get some paints I'm low on
>see a fully assembled warpcoven team with ever load out and tzaangors for $30 all together, 90% painted (passable with touch ups)
I couldn't resist. I like their spells and ploys. I play against my friends deathguard and grey knights alot. Think I'll have a decent chance against him ith this? Watching him double shoot and kill 2 models an activation keeps me hiding with these 8 wound teams. Warp coven a little more sturdy?
>>
>>91871996
As someone who started with corsairs, was stoked when BoK got announced, haven't played a game as anything else since, they are. They can hit very hard if you set it up right they move really fast, and they do not want to ever even give you a chance to shoot back, because they'll die.
>>
>>91870497
>What’s the most glass cannon faction in the game?
Pathfinders are the most glass cannon and insanely fast, corsairs are the fastest and still quite fragile, harlequins are also insanely fast, and hand of the archon is the most durable but slightly slower
>>
>>91869435
Kill Team is cool. The community is not. It's infested with shitty secondaries who don't care about 40k at all.

Thank God GHD is about to quit YouTube. Hopefully CYRAC is next. Both lamentable subhumans ruining this game's community with their shit opinions.
>>
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6 stealth suits, 3 Apl, 2 drones.
>>
>>91869435
Sometimes i use the terrain from the 3rd edition 40k starter, thats the oldest terrain i have.
>>
>>91872651
lmfao GHD's slow descent toward suicide has been weird to watch. Here's hoping his discord becomes a weird morose wasteland after he commits.
>>
What do Eldar play like?

How do Chaos Marines play?
>>
>>91873102
op has a link
>Brief team summaries if you are wondering who to try out next
scouts and blades of khain aren't in yet
>>
>>91873102
Blah blah blah just play 40k.
>>
You guys think they will cram the mandrakes into somekind of dark eldar kill team, like how scorpions got treated, or make them their own thing?
>>
Played my first tournament, 2 days, 6 rounds. Was shitloads of fun. Everyone was pretty chilled learned heaps
>>
>>91872709
Nah that would be way too strong. Going 6/2 the stealth suits would need to be apl2, maybe give with a free mission action per turn equipment.
>>
>>91873524
Hard disagree.
Even then you can limit the drones to the shity suport ones.
>>
>>91873524
Stealth suits need to be apl3 to actually work and not feel like shit

They're essentially worse marines so having only 6 of them with worse stats and a worse apl would make them unplayable
>>
Damn I wanted to make a space yiffers team but there's no space marine rule that lets me field non-marine units of some kind
>>
>>91873734
>>91873704
If you just took compendium stealth suits and increased their all to 3 with no other changes they would be utterly oppressive for some teams on open boards. Let alone if you gave them actual ploys.
If you gave them 3 APL they would have to bare minimum lose the ability to flip back to conceal after shooting.
>>
>>91873968
NTA but most gunner teams are oppressive on open boards, most gunner teams would be more oppressive than a 6 operative team with no shoot twice ability. An all bolter intercession squad would make mincemeat of you on an open board before 6 stealth suits would let alone something with multiple heavy weapons
>>
>>91874145
"Open board" refers to standard boards, as opposed to ItD and Bheta-Decima.
And yeah, I'd hate to face a team that is essentially phobos with meltaguns, even if they do hit on 4s.
>>
>>91873968
I tried, they are shit.
Other people has tried, still shit.
Someone at the spanish comunity had to design a bespoke team for them to not be shit.
>>
>>91874187
Phobos have
>Multiple 2+ to hit units
>Either no cover or lethal 5+ on standard guns
>Free obscured ignore or forced delay activation
>Don't need to spend 1cp per unit to flip order just 1ap

Maybe if the whole team could take fusion blasters you'd have a point but with 1 per fireteam you don't
>>
>>91873968
if you make the camoflage cost 2 ap to counter the apl increase it should be fine.
>>
>>91874187
The order flip alone isn't that insane. Permanent cover plus fly plus order flip is what concerns me.
Some teams could handle it but it would be extremely skewed against others.
>>
>>91874230
Right, forgot that fusion blaster was one a team. Still, compared to phobos, stealth suits already have
>A6 ceaseless on their weapons to make up for being BS4+, enough to make them rival said 2+ to hit operatives even with all their special rules; compared to the basic profiles phobos get, burst cannons are significantly stronger
>permanent cover, meaning they can stand wherever they want
>actual fly, instead of just pseudo-fly
>still get one fusion blaster where phobos' main weakness is lacking any real special weapons
The order flip is also just 1CP per turn, not per unit. At 3APL and no other changes, they'd be permanently unshootable unless you have indirect or get within 2" of wherever they choose to stand (and they can choose to stand anywhere). God, imagine them on BD with 3APL, the game would be unplayable.

Stealth suits, like a lot of other wishlist units for KT (terminators for example) would definitely be best employed as a single specialist in a larger unit in order to not wreck game balance.
>>
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>>91874443
I really like uneven teams and wish there were more designed like that. One Terminator specialist in a Deathwatch Kill-Team alongside other armor marks would be neat, for example.
>>
>>91873145
Looks like mandrakes have enough visually distinct units that they run as their own team. While it's a bummer we won't get wracks or incubi any time soon it does keep the door open for their own teams at some point
>>
>>91874188
do you have a pdf for that team? even if its in espanol
>>
>>91875462
Incubi as the 6 man "elite" Eldar team would be cool, even if they're realistically just Blades of Khaine with a different model.
>>
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Khorne legionaries or assault intercessors?
>>
Sunday Preview already announced scouts and scorpions as seperate killteam boxes.
>>
>>91876839
Build some Zerks and you can play both rules if you want. (Intercession and Legionaire).
>>
>>91877058
If your group is chill you can probably proxy them as fellgores which would work pretty well fluff/how they play wise
>>
>>91877043
I hope that's a sign that we won't have to wait half a year for the individual boxes to release after their big box counterparts in the future.
>>
>>91877777
the release so short after is probably another way to piss of scalpers.
>>
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>>91870495
I’m working on my exaction squad proxies. I’m trying the “paint yellow over pink” trick I’ve seen online so I’m touching up all of the armor on my guys before painting them yellow. It’s taking much longer than I want it to, so it’s a grind to paint them right now
>>
>>91877829
oh im curious to the how it turnes out, i heared that once as well but never saw it.
but i feel ya something like that is always so demotivating especially if you are not shure how this will turn out but if you finish your fist test model an it looks good it will become easyer to do the others
>>
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>>91877912
I’ll post when I get it painted. I’ve seen plenty of others do this so I know it can look really good, I’ll just need to make sure I get a smooth layer of yellow. I’m going to try Imperial Fist Yellow so hopefully that’ll work

>Test model
I’m an all or nothing kind of moron
>>
>>91878077
wow lotta guys, probably so you can switch them out. i like the dog is it also munda?

>all or nothing
yea thats way faster most of the time but and makes it easyer if you mix paints. (also forgetting things is rarer i think)

anyways good luck
>>
Is boon of tzeentch a narrative only selection? KTdash and battlescribe dosnt seem to give me any issues if I don't pick it, but can't seem to find much on the matter in the rules.
>>
>>91878246
No, you technically use a roster in matched play as well although no one ever really worries about it. So that means your sorcs each get a boon in matched play too

> 4. Select a Kill Team
> Each player selects operatives from their matched roster to fulfil their faction’s kill team requirements, then reveals their selections to their opponent.
>>
>>91878246
it can be both but normaly every sorcerer gets one boon and in ndarrative play you can get more
its part of the normal faction abillity just read that part.
>>
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Do you think lack of point-based list building system make Kill Team better system in terms of competetive play?
>>
>>91878284
>>91878299
Sweet. Thanks anons. I did see that it let's you pick but all talked about getting more so I didn't know if it was just narrative. I will probably use these guys as my narrative team anyway.
>>
>>91876839
Legionaries are way more interesting
>>
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>>91878120
Yeah, I like being able to have every option available when I play and not being restricted because I didn’t build a certain model. I just can’t not build every option before start painting. It also does help because like you said, I won’t forget how I painted them because it’s all done at the same time.

And yeah, the dog came from this pack. I kitbashed a different handler for it though
>>
>>91878329
(You)
>>
>>91878366
sweet i knew it looked familiar.

with the all options im more of a magnet guy for that. but just because im lazy with painting and like "crafting".
>>
>>91878329
not neccesarily but its easyer to balance if the options are more restrictive,
so you could get a points system but if you go and restrict max one gunner and shit like that you have more ore less the same building and logically same balance.
the more freedom and diverse rules the player has the harder it gets to balance.
>>
>>91878467
I feel that. I haven’t figured out how to fix the floppy arms you get from magnetizing, plus I just like having each option physically built
>>
>>91878633
yea building each option is definitly better for posing and such,
funny thing is if you dont use round magnets its better against floppyness but making the groove to fit is harder and finding such magnets as well but for small things like arms magnetic sheets are strong enoght, they are kinda thin and polarised so they don't twist on each other its polarity is like a crosswalk or a gutter. and it can be cut in the right dimensions.
>>
>>91878329
Yes, and a better game overall.
>>
>>91878931
>gee, better reply to my own post to make sure I don't look TOO retarded
>>
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Did a wall for my DG team.
>>
>>91879045
Beautiful, gorgeous.
>>
>>91879045
if that isn't fabulous, then i habe no clue what is.
>>
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>>91879064
>>91879144
thanks bros!

I have the second side sculpted already, but gonna take a pause before painting, this is surprisingly tiring. not sure if the left side has enough shit, or if I should add some more.
>>
>>91879045
>>91879251
Hell nice. Is this going to just slot into an existing regular ItD set? It's an idea I really like.
>>
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>>91879272
that's the idea, yeah. I did some work on the entire out-of-the-box set, but grew tired and never finished. And instead of doing so, I got obsessed with this Nurgle idea.
>>
>>91879251
>>91879045
good god man, nice work
>>
>>91879045
>>91879251
When I see this kind of stuff I can't help but think about my age and how my job is going (it isn't going) and that probably it would be better to just give up chasing dreams and settle for a normal job so I could do something fun in my spare time
Man, i'm at the point that even fucking warhammer is giving me existential crises
>>
>>91879463
if it helps, I'm 42 and had a divorce a year ago. Life sometimes is hard, man, but trust me, it gets better as well.
Also it's always worth to keep trying, I first time touched green stuff three months ago, shit turned out to be easier than I imagined all those years.
>>
>>91879533
Thanks man, yeah I'm around that age too so I should know better
Hope the divorce got resolved without unnecessary suffering, I've seen first person lives destroyed by that
>>
>>91879463
>>91879533
>>91880067
Not gonna lie every man needs a workshop to do hobby shit in. My mental health sky rocketed once I turned my basement into my painting/3d printing/crafting workshop thats juat for me. Kill team is fantastic because I can paint a few guys and feel absolutely accomplished in my own space. Of course I have 6 painted teams now and only get to play every couple weeks.
>>
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>>91869435
>TQ
I'm using the starter boxes from 8th and 9th editions for terrain/photo studio.

Which is better painted the newer or older Kit?
>>
>>91881121
I'd say thin your paints in both cases but the older kit looks better.

Please do thin your paints though.
>>
>>91874599
That would be a really good excuse for them to release a new kit of mark 7 power armor. I like your idea.
>>
Anyone spent much time with tomb world? Looking to run them against some other compendium teams and I'm not sure which fire teams to bring. Flayed ones are cool but depending on the killzone/matchup I'm thinking it will be pretty hard to get them into combat
>>
>>91881353
no model, your opinion is invalid
>>
>>91872651
Unfortunately even if all the e-celebfags off themselves, KT will continue to attract undesirables so long as the designers continue to cater to the """competitive""" crowd. I pray that they'll realize their folly and move the game in a decidedly more narrative campaign-focused direction next edition so that the tourneyfags might be weeded out and move on to the next game to shit up with their presence.
>>
>>91881934
This is what made mordheim amazing. The points system and way of earning points as well as the memorable moments where your best fighter got a peg-leg or your lowly skaven spear took down a vampire. Sure, tournyfags could show up with nothing but skaven slingers and table you immediately, bit no one did that if they wanted to play narrative. Much better times, and hope they move in that direction.
>>
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>>91881934
>>91882300
ngl kind of based

I've enjoyed KT as a tournament game and as a narrative game both this edition, but you're still right. And are going to get trolled on in this thread for it.
>>
>>91872651
I like GHD's overtly homosexual vibe
>>
>>91870151
YWNBAW
>>
>>91872651
>>91872993
>>91881934
google ghd
>glute ham developers
>hair straighteners
>>
>>91872651
>>91882621
Who the fuck are these people and why the hell should someone look at killteam youtubes
>>
>>91881454
flayed one are funny but bad, way to slow and as durable as a normal necron.
the charge while concealed stratagem help a bit but having half of youre army do nothing until turn 3 and being so immobile just makes them bad.
deathmarks also have a nice stratagem to change the order they are in, but weapons are heavy making half your army that is slow anyway either immobile or make no damage.
they would work if you could just take 1 or 2 of them.
so typically you take either for a balanced team one necron one immortal fireteam.
immortals for the ap1 takind 2 sets of the same isnt bad either depending on the enemy.
the only time flayed ones kinda work is if the enemy is real up close in youre face as well and in compendium its just deamons, poxwalker or repentias that may be played i think. guys with only 6 range could also be working.
>>
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So I was thinking of getting into Kill Team for the first time and it's actually sort of hilariously hard to find the 'killteam branded killteam' stuff. How stupid would it be to just grab the Compendium and resin proxies/recasts off etsy or some nonsense?
>>
>>91884066
depends,
-do you want to be competiitive, then you should not play compnedium
-do you want to go on official events and play in official gw stores dont unse proxys
otherwise no problem playing with proxies is most of the time no problem other then official events, playing compendium can be fun but most teams are at least a bit if not much weaker then the "real" or bespoke teams and even inside compendium (so compendium team against compendium team) the balance is not that great.
>>
>>91884124
How does this look for world eaters fluff+functionality
-anointed, grisly trophy
-icon bearer, sword
-guy that fight first
-champion, plasma & fist
-gunner plasma, malefic blade
-heavy chaingun, malefic blade, suspensor
K marks on everyone
>>
>>91884124
>>91884270
Didn't mean to quote, sorry
>>
>>91884270
i am not that experienced with chaos teams but power fist is typically a worse option than power sword
>>
Why is it so hard to apply stun in melee?
>>
>>91885133
Do you mean "why do the circumstances of melee make stun difficult to apply for -1APL" or "why did they design stun for-1APL to be difficult to apply in melee"?
>>
>>91885142
Aren't both the same?
>>
>>91885159
Not really.
>why do the circumstances of melee make stun difficult to apply for -1APL
Melee deals with generally high damage numbers compared to shooting, and as you need to strike with two crits to trigger the APL penalty, even assuming you are allowed to get those two crits through most enemies will be dead already (or would be if you brought a weapon more focused on damage instead, see power sword vs power maul). Anything that can eat two crits and still stand is generally going to be able to ignore that APL penalty with a ploy anyways.
>why did they design stun for-1APL to be difficult to apply in melee
This is more speculative, but I'd guess that it was found that it would've ended up too powerful. Charge someone, stun them, and bam - you're stuck in melee with an enemy that can't fall back (oh and if the two of you are standing on an objective marker, you're now in control). It'd be very difficult for a team without dedicated melee specialists to deal with an enemy with that sort of weapon.
>>
>>91885159
i think what he means is the difference between:
why is it so difficult in general
or
why did they make it more difficult then shooting stun.
>>
>>91885221
Ah I get ya
Yeah first part I understand, it's the second, the why, that confuses me. basically every operative with melee stun has a power weapon with a good chance of dealing some big damage, stun could be the safer, easier version.
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>>91885133
Stun gets the free parry in melee which is solid on its own, and then the -1apl is just a bonus if they survive the fight phase
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>>91885409
KT balance is a bit of a knife's edge, it's easy to give something a small bonus and suddenly insanely powerful. Easy APL debuffs in melee would be one of those things; imagine something like admech infiltrators using taser goads being impossible to fall back from and running into a veteran guardsmen team, you'd need to spend even longer getting rid of them.
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Qrd me on Salvagers?

They look cool and interesting. Are they fun? I've only played a couple games with vet guard and intercessors vs my brother. I want to run the knuckleduster guy cause punching people across the board seems awesome. Lugger's ability is also really cool. Do I need a 2nd box or can I get some cheap hearthkyn warriors instead off ebay??
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>>91886969
KT balance is dogshit. It’s a joke that people think it’s well executed.
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>>91886978
the "knuckleduster" dozer is funny but realy situational if good or not so overall not that good a guy (with the reduced movement and the problem that using this abillity leaves you wide open for shooting attacks sucks, and the damage output isnt that much but pretty reliable at least)
im not shure what you need the second box for but the killteam is littealy the normal warrior team from 40k with an additional sprue so yes you can pick up from ebay as long as you have one upgrade sprue because you cant take special options twice anyway.
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>>91887019
depends on how you see it but i think the game has a hard rock paper scissors problem (if you see that as a balance problem im completly on your side)
>>
Finally got my second Vetguard box and built all the options + four auxilliaries.

What's a good take all comers team comp? My local meta is mostly elites so I'm already packing up my plasma and melta, obviously leader, comms, confidant. I just need picks to fill those last five slots.

Zealot seems like it'd be ok only if it starts next to the melta/plasma, considering the hardened for the 5+ fnp, spotter and sniper seem to be joined at the hip so if I take one I take the other. Demolitions seems fun but I don't know how often that mine really gets used. Some weird neuron in my brain is telling me that medic is a trap pic but how bad can potentially getting 4 extra (injured) soldiers really be?
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>>91887725
medic is not a trap pick, he's insanely good. you have 14 guys, they will inevitably be close together. the medic can keep you plasma gunner alive after he shoots and is vulnerable, he also makes the hardened a real tough bastard. the demo trooper is one of the most powerful units on the team, but he can be tricky to use if you dont have much experience with the team.

on Into the dark things are different, but I generally leave behind the zealot, confidant, flamer, and bruiser.
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>>91887819
Thanks anon. I can't say where I got that notion about the medic. I'm glad the demo vet is good because I stole another anons build idea for the mine token and even though it wasn't my idea I'm happy about how it turned out
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>>91869435
>tq
Honestly I mostly use paper models for terrain because I’m cheap. I use a few bits of terrain from the old lotr game and the starter set but most of it my terrain is made of card stock and foamcore.
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>>91887725
The Demo is a must have. You have to keep him close to your comms, so the third APL can be used in detonating the mine in the same activation.
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With Recon, to get the 2 VP does it need to be the same operative from the first VP or is it any operative?
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>>91890196
Unless it specifically says the same operative, it can be any operative
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>>91890196
which recon tacop are you talking about
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>>91890196
Whoops meant Courier.

>>91890224
Sick.
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>>91890263
Courier specifically makes you choose a single operative when it is revealed, and can only be scored by that operative
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>>91884270
Drop heavy gunner for butcher
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>>91890287
Ah so I need to keep them around for 2 turns.
Cools
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Is kill team any good?
I stumbled upon the starter set and it seems like a crazy good deal
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>>91890509
Kill Team is better than 40k and it will continue to be so until 11th edition adds alternating activations
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>>91890509
>Is kill team any good?
It's medicore.
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>>91890547
Is it suited for pick up and play games?
I haven't played 40k in a decade but I enjoy painting miniatures
>>
What would you think about the following as a suggested fix for Kroot?
Change the melee damage profile of their two melee specialists to 3/5 (leave dogs as 3/4).
Give them access to the Skinning Blade equipment from compendium kroot.
Part of their big issue right now is that because almost all of their damage is on a 3/4 profile they just get mathed way too hard by some teams. On top of that they don't have much AP so melee is their best option for dealing with high save teams, but it just can't go the distance right now.
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>>91890660
as long as you got a scene in your local area, yeah
the game's just "get some terrain and get your 6-14 dudes, lets play"
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>>91890671
I think Kroot are neat for being a team that's not great in combat but plays the mission super well
Once you get the hang of them you'll max out your Tac-Ops with basically no effort every time and things like Poach are hilarious for cucking your opponent out of objectives
I'd want to somehow make them better by pumping up their scoring advantage even more but maybe that's just not fun for some people idk
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I finally painted that secutarii "kill team" I made. I didn't really want to and then I got pretty sick but I forced it out and it shows.
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>>91890765
I think it looks fine. I barely put much effort into my paint jobs. To me it's just about making them look good enough to look at from at least a foot away on a game table.
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>>91890779
I can never get metallics to photgraph correctly even when they look good anyway.
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>>91890762
I honestly like that about them as well but currently tanky stuff like Intercessors and all the 10 HP teams can just move up the board while giving you with almost no ability to even slow them down. Farstalkers need some ability to hold off teams like that.
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>>918905092
Yes, it's fun. The starter kit is a really good deal even if you don't play the game. For 20 models and some misc scrap terrain that you can use in 40k, it's awesome even if bought directly from GW.

I should mention that the veteran guardsmen (krieg) kill team has a special rule that lets them take "ancillary support". this is some mortar fire or air strikes they can call in a few times per game, OR an option to take 4 extra troopers bumping them up to a 14 man kill team instead of 10. Taking the 4 extra troops is p much mandatory over the air support/artillery. Just thought I would let you know. You would neeed an extra box or some 4 extra goblins you got lyign around as proxies would do the trick

>>91890660
it's great for pick up and play. it has a low barrier for entry with simpler rules, cheaper "armies", and shorter games. Almost every faction is represented in compendium teams so pick what you like. If you're big into hobbying, you can trick out your team with names and make each one special. Or if you don't like painting then you only need to paint like 6-14 dudes and you're done, no need to paint squads upon squads before you can use any of them like 40k.
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>>91890547
>Kill Team is better than <the worst game in GW's catalogue>
That's not exactly a glowing endorsement.
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>>91890509
>>91890660
It's currently the most enjoyable game for using 40k miniatures, however little that says. More importantly, it has enough gameplay depth that you get genuinely difficult tactical choices to make.
Games are also shorter, though with setup included they still take about 2 hours.

>>91887019
I will always say that it has never been about KT being perfectly balanced, but more about how player skill during the match (rather than during army selection) gets to play a much bigger role in deciding who wins compared to something like bighammer. That's how you end up with a tournament where a compendium ecclesiarchy team places higher than warpcoven, where the three vetguard players place 5th, 14th, and 23rd, and the top 10 teams are all different.
Did the void-dancers player have an advantage, especially when placed on a BD map for one game? For sure, but not enough of an advantage to make that win guaranteed. He still had to play well in his games to get there.

>>91886978
Haven't played as them but have played against a few players with them, and they are about as cool as any other team. Nothing that frustrating about them, and thanks to their Movement already being 4" that can't be lowered and they can use equipment to ignore BS penalties, so you get to almost not care about being injured.
To build all the weapon options you do need either magnets or a second box, but the team is fully playable without them. You'll just have to either ignore the lugger's ability or, if you're playing with the right people, pretend that the missile launcher just is a rotary cannon or whatever.
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>>91891097
what are you talking about, they have two ranged ap1 weapuns one is 4/5 one 4/4, every rifle/pistole can have one ap1 shot, the broker can have a 4/5 ranged weapon or 4/5 melee equipment you have two operatives that can dish out mortal wounds you have some rending and lethal as well multiple operatives that can attack despite conceal the dogs boost your closecombat characters, just because youre base stats arent THAT great doenst mean you have no dmg, they are just harder to play
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>>91893143
The 4/4 one is P1 actually. If you give the leader the 4/5 ranged weapon they have very poor accuracy. The melee weapon is good but you need to use a strat ploy to have 4 attacks so it is very easy to get parried out.
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>>91890299
For the flavor? Butcher seems a pretty niche pick and hitting on 4 is pretty crappy
I could give him the malefic blade tho...
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>>91893196
ktdash and wahapedia both state ap1 not p1 so now im confused.
calling 50/50 poor is a thing
but shure they have a little bit low dmg but not that bad and making everyone a bit stronger is kinda the wrong way to balance things out, you would need to make the dedicated anti "tank" unit stronger in theyre job not everyone (seeing at the profile of plasma weapons for example)
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>>91891319
Did anybody manage to play with scouts / blades of khaine? Maybe we should update the pic.
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Can anybody help me how to win with Hand of the Archon against the Intercessors and other marine / elite teams? Especially against more experienced players, that won't put models close together to avoid grenades, etc.
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>>91893273
50/50 is poor in kt21 when you only have 4 attack dice. Averaging 2 hits means you are on average not getting any damage through against a 4+save in cover or even a 3+ save out of cover.
I did misremember the stats for the tribalest though.
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>>91893401
most map deployments force you to put at least some marines together turn one, where you can drop the poison bomb. It's a marine team, put at least 6 kabalites in conceal, and the rest threatening and forcing the marine player to spend the first turn fully in conceal. If you took the +1 move instead of the FnP, make sure your melee operatives are always just far enough away so that you can charge them but they can't charge you, though most of the time you want the FnP. You've got 2 melee operatives and 2 gunners with AP so your options to kill are a bit limited, but trading them one for one still leaves you with more map control.
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>>91893523
>If you took the +1 move instead of the FnP, make sure your melee operatives are always just far enough away so that you can charge them but they can't charge you, though most of the time you want the FnP
Interesting - I thought +1 move should be automatic, but I quess you're right - FnP is more valuable against elites.
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>>91893572
Also: Toxic coating on your two melee operatives plus Phantasm Grenade launcher can never go wrong. Personally I also add toxic coating + extra wicked blade on the generic agent and skysplinter assassin to make them into halfway melee operatives.
>>
Do you guys think just a scratch ruins melee? Basically every team with one or two melee operatives have them invalidated by just a scratch, you're forced to lose one melee for free if you ever want to access "fair" melee.
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>>91893826
>Do you guys think just a scratch ruins melee
No, I think it makes it harder to fight in melee against Kommandos
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>>91893394
I've been getting it done now that all the stuff I've been focused on is over. I've played both with and against scouts already, and a friend has played BoK both against me and others to good effect, so I hope these descriptions capture the essence of the teams.
I also updated the following:
>new difficulty on gellerpox to reflect feedback
>old scouts description updated since they're now obsolete
>added note about what difficulty actually means
>added markings for which teams are fully 1 box teams
>added note about SFJ being harder to get models for
About the 1 box team thing, that means you can get the full team experience with just one box, without magnetizing. Some cases are borderline (legionaries technically have legal team setups that require over 20 models to assemble but that no one will care about; meanwhile while dwarves can mostly be played using one box their additional weapon options are quite important) so I've tried to stick more to the spirit of the matter than the letter.
That is, in my eyes. Consider this post a sort of review, to make sure nothing slips through my one perspective. If I've wrongly categorized a team in the 1 box options, or forgotten some bit of feedback from the last few months (it's been busy) then please do alert me to it. Otherwise, I'll upload this to catbox for placing in the next OP.
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>>91893905
You're doing gods work. Thanks anon.
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>>91893905
>We'll hit 30 bespoke teams soon
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>>91893971
>We'll hit 30 bespoke teams soon
>The game is still not a massive clusterfuck of balance
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>>91894028
Nonironically (bespoke team) meta feels much healthier than bighammer
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>>91893971
now to the question what is the 30th team, mandrakes or nightlords?
probably those that were announced last?
wich one was it? mandrakes?
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>>91893905
>added markings for which teams are fully 1 box teams
You're the best
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>>91894154
I thought they announced it at once
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>>91893971
And none of them are nids. So weird.
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>>91894351
Well we discussed the potential nid bespoke team couple threads back, it has some problems.
Should have at least be released in White Dwarf, though.
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>>91894351
John Kill Team (current lead developer of Kill Team 21) has gone on record saying he thinks all Tyranid players are giga faggots who don't deserve a bespoke team
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>>91894191
i'm not shure about it but nightlords where announced november and mandrakes in january at the LVO show.
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>>91893905
Novitiates and Exaction Squad are not one box teams wtf
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>>91894403
as well as custodian, proper deamon, grey knights, deathwatch, deathguard marines and any firstborn SM stuff in general. not to mention das GW itself forbids any proper emperor's children in any of their games.
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>>91894504
>Exaction Squad
Debatable
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>>91894504
fully playable without any real sacrifices to versatility, not fully playable with all options.
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>>91894403
They need to make an out of season boxset (like inquisition vs cultists) that's just terminators vs tyranids. AFAIK cultists don't have a single new sprue on them so it's not like there's no precedent for that.
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>>91894504
question about the definition of one box teams.
"being able to make a competetive acaptable team out of one box" is the consense for that right? otherwise if you go with something like "being able to build every option" exept for those without options like starstriders there is no one box team right?
if we define "being able to make a playable team" nearly everything is a one box team
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>>91894539
>They need to make an out of season boxset
Yeah but there's high probability of new edition of KT after season 3 will end.
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>>91894598
I'd say one-box team means
>you'll do fine (not necessairly great) in meta & can have all options with magnets
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>>91894605
Looking at how they handled Warcry and MESBG there will be a new starter box and not much else, the rules will be almost entirely the same, maybe with thr faqs and erratas included. Which I prefer to be honest.
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>>91894628
Yeah this is very possible for KT aswell, but I guess that means there's no time for the between-seasons-box for Kill Team, right?
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How would you design LoS rules for Kill Team?
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>>91894640
I don't see why not, the inquisition vs cultists box came out of nowhere in the middle of two releases. Since it's out of season they can release it whenever.
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>>91894651
I think they are fine as-is.
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>>91894533
Hard disagree
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>>91894640
the next starterbox is termies vs genestealer with the release of the new melee terminators
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>>91894679
So Kommandos are not one-box-team cause you can't have all specialists AND 4 Kommando Boys at the same time?
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>>91894651
Turn obscurement into a terrain rule.
Obscuring: (Usually assigned to windows and other porous terrain) This piece of traversable
light cover blocks visibility so long as both shooters are more than circle away from it.
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>>91894720
No because Kommandos are a very durable, easy team to play and they don't heavily rely on playing the match up
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>>91894760
Do you know what we're talking about when we say "one box team"? we're talking about whether you can play the team to most of it's power while only buying one copy of the box
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>>91894737
you know "blocks visibility" is too ambiguous, maybe just change obscuring so it goes away so long as either are within 1 inch so it's easier to remember, and add in a couple more pictures showing how it works (windows are light cover if the target is close to them, walls if the target is far away, nonexistent if the shooter is close)
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>>91894651
i never understood the logic why the cover gets worse if you get closer to it, why is it obscuring if you are further away from it then if you are direktly behind it?
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>>91894981
You know how if someone is right on the other side of a fence, you can see their silhouette, but if they're far away, you don't?
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>>91894981
Someone poking their head right in front of a window is far easier to see than someone lurking at the back of the room even if you can see them through the window.
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>>91894805
Yes and you can't play Novitiates and Exaction squad to most of their power without all the options because the teams require you to be able effectively tailor your team to what your opponent is bringing.
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>>91894598
The idea is that if someone asks the question
>Can I buy one box and build the entire team from it?
The answer should be yes, no real ifs or buts. Yes, you technically need three boxes of legionaries to field every possible combination of operatives, but in reality you'll get all the specialists and weapon options you realistically want out of one. No, even though you can technically field a team out of one breachers or vetguard box, they effectively require two boxes to be up to par.
Heathkyn are a bit of a special case because you only really need extra weapon options and even without them you can just proxy when you use the lugger ability in most gaming groups. Scouts I'm also not sure about here because shotguns are good enough that I think one box is enough, even though two would be needed for all the warrior weapon options.
In other words in a lot of cases we'll need to make a judgement. It's about helping players that don't know the teams figure out which ones are relevant; we want to note the options that are actually relevant to them.

>>91894618
I disagree about the magnets. It's safe to assume that a lot of people wondering about new teams aren't experienced enough to go straight to magnetizing, and those who are should also be able to figure out if a team can be magnetized themselves.

>>91894504
I might have been too quick to mark exaction squad, forgot about their shotguns vs shields options that are actually relevant. Novitiates I'm not aware of though, what options do you lose out on if you only get one box?
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>>91895006
a fence (or other mesh similar things) is light cover and doesnt give obscured anyway and you cant look throug walls, and they are just harder to see because they are further back

>>91895024
thats just because of the lighting of the room. is it well lit they are just a bit smaller because they are further away thats all. you can still properly see them.
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>>91894981
The idea of obscurement is that a lot of terrain that GW sells has windows, lots of them. This means that a lot of their bigger terrain no longer blocks visibility. Obscurement, in theory, solves this; put a big chalnath wall along the centre line and the deployment zones stop being able to see each other, but you can still walk up to the windows and use them as firing holes.
Of course, in practice, it has a lot of unintended side-effects, most noteably NRS. But it's mostly an abstract way of making cover fully block LoS for the benefit of the game.
This makes anon's suggestion here >>91894737 actually pretty good; you can say
>chalnath wall terrain
>window trait: while two operatives are are more than 1" from a window, Visibility cannot be drawn between those two operatives through that window.
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>>91895333
>window trait: while two operatives are are more than 1" from a window, Visibility cannot be drawn between those two operatives through that window.
that is much clearer than what I wrote, 10/10.
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>>91895398
You still need to reword it so it doesn't specifically mention windows and works with holey walls, tyranid growths, etc. but I think we should straight up email Elliot about this.
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>>91895418
Indeed, this example was specifically for chalnath terrain. Probably because I played on it twice this weekend.
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Do you think close quarters rules would work for the trench board I'm working on?
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>>91895039
For Novitiates you want to be able to run 2 flamers and I'm pretty sure you can't do that with one box
I'm also of the opinion that there are match-ups where you want to drop some of the stranger specialists for girls with just swords and pistols
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>>91895682
Could do
Although a big part of Close Quarters is playing around doors and idk how you'd represent that
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>>91895809
There are 2 purgatus in the box, and like veterans it seems the arms are mostly interchangeable, so yes, you can do two purgatus, and while it's true, most of the time you want to choose a few operatives depending on matchup, the point of marking a team as one-box is to warn newcomers of teams that absolutely 100% require more than one box to either play at all or play with any degree of competitiveness.
>>
We need the final flavor of cultists in KT. Well, there would still be vraksian renegades but those are resin.
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>>91895818
This. Also how would you explain being unable to just get out of the trench and walk over the top?
>enemy fire
Kill team is covert actions, they aren't in the middle of a battle.
>>
>>91896040
brutal superheated/radioactive/razor-crystal sandstorm
>>
greenskins seem like a genuinely good team. before anyone brings up K*mmandos, yes i am aware they are ludicrously strong, but i dont like their playstyle. just want to get stuck in with the boys and keep it simple, brutal.

a boss nob, 2 rokkit boys, 7-8 boys with the option of GA2 grots to sit on objectives and perform actions. still have just a scratch, still have 10w and choppas. aside from being outclassed by their bepoke team they seem like they can still hold their own.
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>>91896026
i think vraks gets pretty well represented with Blooded; they got an option to use the chaos-commissar and the ogryn and all, its what i use for mine
yeah they're 'khorne' but the theming is light enough that it feels pan-chaos
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>>91895333
but obscuring is already a terrain trait (its part of heavy terrain) it just specifys the rules under the line of sight paragraph
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>>91893826
Shoot them first. Try to bait them, use your melee operatives pistols instead.
But yeah, melee with just a scratch is awful
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>>91896381
assigning obscuring to all heavy terrain automatically leads to non-reciprocal shooting and weird situations where corners block shooting, while keeping it to windows and porous walls prevents all that while still fixing what obscuring was fixing from the start (most terrain has windows/holes).
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>>91896638
>non-reciprocal shooting
Friendly reminder that nobody actually plays the game like this and if anyone does you should refuse games against them
>>
Haven't been paying attention to KT for a while, how is the new Scorpion KT? Is it actually good? I might get back into KT if it is.
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>>91896683
it is not out for long and hasnt been patched once so its hard to say yet.
first impressions seem to state them as highly agressive glass cannons
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>>91896638
the thought of not beoing able to shoot people throug windows is still kilarious. if you argue with those holes i kinda can understand that, making "realistic" rules for that is bonkers.
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>>91896667
in private games yes, in tournament "everyone" (clearly not everyone but a lot lot) abuses the heck out of whatever rule they can
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>>91896683
Scorpions may well be the weakest model on the team if some first impressions are to be believed but as the other anon said it's impossible to say definitively right now
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>>91896241
I'm still trying to figure out which tacops would work better for a grot team, they clearly benefit the most from inflitration tacops, but that means taking 5 plain kommando boys and one less rokkit
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>>91878329
Yes, it's easier to balance and you can tweak a team's "game feel" better than if it were wide open list building. It's my biggest criticism of Warcry, everything turns into midrange soup if you let people do what they want in a competitive format. I don't think it's completely awful but when I read about tournament lists for Warcry it makes me not want to play the game because the system relies to heavily on bringing in the best allies and monsters for your GA at the expense of whatever fluff you were trying to do
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>>91896845
I think Command Point's assessment is way off. Banshees are really good but Scorps are insane against 7W models, head and shoulders above banshees, and with the meta looking the way it does, you will be seeing 7W models a lot.
>>
So my playgroup wants to go back to compendium only for a bit. I'm thinking of rolling with the kroot. I know that general consensus is that they suck dick, but has anyone tried playing them with a heavy skinning blades loadout instead of the silent hunting rifles and just playing heavily into melee?
Skinning blades are only 2 EP so you can play the team as 1 krootox, 4 kroot hounds, 5 carnivores with skinning blades and the leader. Seems like it might be okay against other compendium teams.
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>>91898287
Play Heavy Intercessors pussy
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>>91898287
that team can work against some other teams, i would still suggest the "SURE-FOOT CHARM" equipment instead of a blade and be aware that in closecombat you are just 8w sv6+ models and after combar if you win you typicaly are not in cover and in engaged order. so no 4+sv for you.

silent weapons in compendium are realy annoying, there are nearly no spotter (if any) so you have a constant threat that you can't get rid of other than close combat.
but as a side note compendium isn't that balanced in itself so people going only compendium are going in the wrong direktion
>>
>>91893971
Please update chaos daemons so that slaanesh is actually playable. Noise marines play so loud you can't hear their foot steps during the covert missions.
>>
>>91893905
maybe color code box number?
a green 2 meaning needing two of the same box for all the options
example vet guard for 4 more bodies
needing another different box could be yellow number
example: phobos + reiver box
needing multiple other boxes could be a red number
example hierotek for all crypteks, chaos cultists + accursed +commune
>>
>>91894651
This shit has me pretty upset. I get loopholes somtimes come up but thw whole "cover is worse then being in the open but provides cover not cover" obscurment shit. Makes no sense and abused too often. Pretty immersion breaking when that shit pops up.
>>91894737
I like this. Or just say you have pbscurement if the enemy model is over X inches away from shooter and has terrain in the way.
>>
>>91897739
I played a bit of warcry, and realizing I'd won the game before deployment because I'd min maxxed mathematically harder hitting and more durable soldiers into my list than the other player made me really grateful that kill team doesn't have points
>>
>>91899732
What are some examples of broken shit you can take in warcry?
>>
I’m currently building my first kill team (Farstalker Kinband). Looking for an opinion on whether I should give the Warriors rifles or scatterguns and which heavy weapon to go with. Just want to know which I would get the most mileage out of since I don’t want to pick up a second kit right away just to fill out gaps in the build options. I was going to go tracker over stalker though if for no other reason than the bird is cool
>>
>>91899784
Each faction just take your cheap chaff and power allies - so unfluffy if you wanna power game. I figured this out after my first game which tells me it’s not well designed.
>>
>>91900790
If you model the warrior that is holding the knife with a scattergun pretty much anyone would accept it as the Stalker. Alternately with minimal Hobbying you can mount the bird on the shoulder of a rifle warrior to be your tracker.
As for rifle or shotgun on warriors I favor rifle since it is better for hitting your vengeance for the Kinband target from across the map when you need it.
>>
>>91899296
Does anyone even know the difference between the Crypteks? And since you can only have one anyway, I think it's qualified as a 1 box team
>>
>>91901024
One has a 50mm base while the other two are on 40mm
The only other things I can think of are the choice of having a death mark or immortal leader and having a mix of the two different operatives on the roster
>>
>>91901024
The crypteks are absolutely enough to disqualify it from a one box team, we've had anons complain before about having to buy the additional cryptek. Chronomancer is, at least in some places, considered the main pick.

>>91899296
It would be more interesting to colour-code different categories than exact numbers. I could see
>one box has all the options needed
>one box will give you a fully playable and competitive team, but you'll lack some sidegrade options
>one box will give you a legally playable team but it will be severely lacking
>one box will not even give a playable team
As categories, perhaps merging 3 and 4.
>>
>>91899296
>>91901149
Honestly I feel this is over complicating things for new players
IMO one box teams are ones that allow you to build the/a optimal kill team from one box without magnetization
Legionaries is one box team
Hierotek is not as you have a sub optimal leader
Death guard are one box as poxwalkers generally aren't run
Traitor space marine are not as people usually bring cultists
>>
>>91901065
>>91901149
Ah, I thought they were all the base. Do base expanders exist?
Was thinking the next team I buy would be them.
>>
>>91894403
Well fuck him then. I'll keep playing Space Weirdos with my 2nd edition nids.
>>
>>91894381
Link?
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>>91901814
It's literally in last thread:
>>91847729
>>91848553
>>
>>91901961
>Genestealers
>Have no ranged weapons whatsoever and even if you gave them an acid spitting variant or something it still wouldn't be a very long-range weapon. Tough to come up with a variety of specialists. You would have no comms, no medic, no sniper, etc. It can be done but it would take all the creative muscle they have.
This only shows the retarded state that James maneuvered this game into. There is no reason for every team to have a sniper, medic, coms, explosives, bird, sneaky melee and heavy melee "expert". The game has several layers of gamey rules to make teams interesting instead of this retarded intra team diversity.
>>
>>91902066
I mean yes, but all male, no-specialist team would feel very vanilla, compendium like. It doesn't have to comms / medic / sniper / leader but intra team diversity is not retarded.
>>
>>91902066
why is that james problem? you do realise that the khain team is such a team? so they are clearly ok with the idea to have no specialists at all.
the point is that if they don't make specialists for that team there is no reason to make such a team being already existent in compendium.
>>
>>91902178
I really wouldn't mind more simple PDF teams like intercessors. Nids seem like a great candidate for one.
>>
>>91902240
I wouldn't mind either, but (like intercessors) a PDF team you make out of 2/3 boxes, say stealers + gons / warriors.
Still though it is tricky for GW to make a good, one-box, non-PDF nid team
>>
>>91902240
6 ravener, leader gets a brainbugparasite thingy one can be replaced for two(three?) absober swarms get beast like kroot dog, like on the back of the neurogaunts, hard to hit in cover, mostly tyranid warrior stats, equipment: acid maw, torax swarm, adrenal glads, toxin sacs, hardend torax.
tac ops:
burrow: one operative gets the fly keyword for his movement this turn but can only move horizontally not vertically.
slithering body: can make a charge action while concealed.
to lazy to think of more right now
>>
>>91902305
>like on the back of the neurogaunts
still belongs to brainbugparasite thingy, sorry placed the absober in the wrong spot
>>
>>91902306
I'd love some good brainbug nid kill team.
>>
>>91902305
If they really want to go the full specialist route I have no problem at all with GW just making something up that works for Kill Team. The whole point of the Nids is that they are meant to be super adaptable. Maybe they straight up evolve a team of varied specialists that work together like a single organism.
>>
>>91902344
shure they could, i mean ymgarl and other instances of mutadet organisms that had lost the connection to the hivemind existed in lore years ago. is just the question why they don't want to.
but makind any team with an upgrade sprue would be easy.
enhanced senses = spotter
brainbug= give another one +1apl guy
acid blood for the dedicated melee guy to make that his gimmik
another melee guy could just be "decendent of old one eye" with regeneration or feel no pain (like hardened veteran or whatever
acid maw could work more like a granade or make a mini spore launcher, or give it its own style of parasitic infection if he dies he explodes (could spawn absorber but better not)
if an idiot like me can come up with suck stuff in a few minutes, pros can do something like that in more detail in a few weeks
>>
I played some of the original KT during 8th edition 40k. Now the itch is back and I'm wondering how much has changed and if it's worth it to get back into it.
>>
>>91902847
was 8th before or after points were replaced with the compendium and fire teams? after points were replaced by fire teams pretty much nothing fundamental has changed beyond there being way more and more involved teams.
>>
>>91902847
A LOT has changed, if its worth you have to decide for youreself.
major changes to statlines new own little system, wounding works completly different, army composition is COMPLETLY different, no points no armys just small little teams you can chose a selected few units from that are not interchangable with other teams (mostly)
there changed a lot, to much to tell everything in detail
>>
>>91902867
I played with points, made for some dumb games like 5 rubrics against 18 poxwalkers.
>>
>>91902889
Yeah the game is totally different now, the game has it's own system with way better rules, more unique operatives and more tactical gameplay but no listbuilding at all (with the sole exception of the inquisition team)
Definitely recommended but some people really can't deal with the lack of listbuilding.
>>
People who want Listbuilding are all waacfags who just want to run entire teams of plasma guns again
>>
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>>91903059
What about me? I would just like the option of running my old conversions again without having to fudge what equipment they have or uprooting all my own lore
Am I not real to you anon
I thought we were friends
>>
>>91903059
Because there surely isn't some middle ground that could be had amirite
>>
>>91903193
Tbh I love the middle ground we got in Inquisition, it lets you choose unique units with interesting abilities without being completely freeform with all the metafaggery that entails. One thing I like about Warcry's listbuilding is that you can still make very fun thematic (and non-dogshit) warbands if the bespoke of your favorite faction is made up of models you don't like
>>
I'm very much noob, got into Kill Team in 2021 and that's pretty much only wargame I play (I do also enjoy Blood Bowl from a time to time).

Nonironically what is the purpose of point-based list building in skirmish game at all? Is it to play thematic, fluffy, roleplay games (>>91903213)? Backward compability (>>91903153)? Currently we have very tight, competive system, with few options: and I really like it.
I feel like the more list building system is loose (and point-based) the more time of game you spend alone behind computer, working on your spreadship with your list. And more tight list building system cause result of the game depend more on your actual decisions DURING the game, not before it.

But like I said, I'm really unexperienced, would like somebody to explain that to me.
>>
>>91903213
If a new/updated edition gave every team inquisition-style list building that would be great, albeit maybe a pipe dream. But if done right it could incorporate the best of both bespoke specialists and compendium fireteams together.
>>
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Whats a good 6 men list for Legionnaires. And by good I mean competitive (so I learn to flesh them out) or fun (so I play a lot of games).

Im mostly a colector / painter and id like to build and paint just 6 minis to start.
>>
>>91903495
I mean I don't like it but it has more opportunities for /your dudes/, in a perfect world if I want to play a list that has only plasma guns but is a mix between firstborn, primaris and scouts with a chaplain leading them because that's my dudes lore I would be able to and the game would be balanced some other way, in practice though this is more or less impossible.
>>
>>91903746
i think what they did with hunter clade and mechanicus was a good way, the worst part about compendium (exept it doenst get balanced) was taht you had tot ake everything in chunks, so if its more free like with khain it would feel way better.
the part i dont like about inquisition is you are fixt with one half (more or less) and you still have to take everything in chunks
>>
>>91903801
You want leader and AND Icon Bearer. Split operatives between undivided and your chosen god. Don't give the same chaos blessing to Icon Bearer and Leader to fully use Favoured of the Dark Gods.
My heavy-meele list (not tested on any tournament, though):
>Champion with plasma and power fist (Khorne)
>Balefire Acolyte (Undivided)
>Butcher (Khorne)
>Heavy gunner with Missile Launcher (Undivided)
>Anointed (Khorne)
>Icon Bearer (Undivided)
Swap Khorne for Slaneesh if you want faster marines instead of harder-hitting ones. Definitely give suspensor system to the heavy gunner.
I actually build two warriors, one with boltgun, one with bolt pistol & chainsword. Then I magnetized the backpack with the icon - so I can choose between loadouts of the icon bearer.
>>
>>91903495
points are just a tool to make things more flexible give more options and make it more personal, you can archive that without points its just harder. they tried to compensate the lack of point in more or less forcing characters on peolpe that have individualism integrated, but that on the other hand doesnt feel like a hero from you (especially if most teams have the same individualism.
having no teambuilding does not increase any playtime whatsoever it just reduces the time people spent with the game, i mean for those that dont like building its a good thing to not be bothered by it and just be able to play, but those that theorize between games have just way less to do in the hobby and yes there are plenty of people that never play but they dont play more because of the missing buildingoptions.
building a team also does have nothing to do with the ammount of decisions during the game, thats just different part of the game design.
>>
>>91903912
Leader and servoskull aside, there's 9 inquisitorial agents, 11 if you count the 3 gun servitors, of which you take 5, that's not fixed.
>>
>>91903862
I mean, I wouldn't be against playing that list in narrative play - you can even combine rules of several marines if you'd like to.
You'd only need rules for the chaplain, right?
>>
>>91904036
yes, but such a list would be torture to play against as a marine player, six operatives with AP2 would be broken beyond fixability
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>>91903495
Anon with the predator here, you're very right. The more you allow for free listbuilding, the more the game becomes about it. It's effectively a balance. KT21 deciding to go for a more restricted listbuilding has easily helped it in a lot of ways.
I personally think that inquisition agents is proof that the game could go a bit further towards free listbuilding than it currently does without throwing that away though. Move the sliders a bit further along the line, as it were.

I'll clarify that the reason my teams look like they do is because I enjoyed building thematically. The BT I posted were "everyone will have a power sword, I don't care what's good or bad".
My Angels of Absolution were a 50/50 mix of marinelets and primaris because I had been building my own narrative around that conflict for a while.
Deathwatch I just threw together cool loadouts.
I don't really wish for backwards compatability (though it would be nice) as much as the opportunity to be more creative again.

Also I'd like to mention something about KT18's balance but I think I'll need a separate post for that.
>>
>>91904031
that why i sayed more or less, you can't switch out those you have to chose at least 5 of the 9. and cant change the leader and besides the gunservitor non has options. (that is fine for most but i realy wozld wish options for the leader at least)
>>
>>91894651
I don't get what it's not like in some other games where you are obscured if terrain obscures 50% of the mini and and it's in cover if the mini is base to base with the obscuring terrain. That's it.
>>
>>91903801
Something like Khorne anointed with trophy
Nurgle icon bearer with a krak, champion with plasma and power sword, gunner with plasma+malefic blade, heavy gunner with chaingun+malefic blade+ suspensor, balefire with all the shooty stuff
Overall nurgle is the best, with champion and icon bearer you can run both powers and not only make everyone tankier but be immune to the wounded debuff, something super useful for an elite team
Switch to tzeentch when you're against teams with lots of AP as the 4+ invul works very well with them.
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>>91904125
>I'll clarify that the reason my teams look like they do is because I enjoyed building thematically. The BT I posted were "everyone will have a power sword, I don't care what's good or bad".
>>
>>91904125
>Also I'd like to mention something about KT18's balance but I think I'll need a separate post for that.
I'd be interested in reading that.
>>
>>91904103
Yeah but that's the whole point of non-balanced, non-competetive but fun and narrative play.
I'd still fuck you up with my Kommandos - you simply wouldn't be able to shoot me
>>
>>91903944

Zog me anon thats basically what I built from my marines. I think ill just run with that thank for now you very much. Whats the strategy? Just go ham?
>>
>>91904125
So one thing that I never see mentioned when people bring up KT18's plasma spam problem is how absolutely terrible its balancing was. Not necessarily between teams, but between build styles.
A bolter had I think a 1/20 chance of killing a guardsman under average circumstances, a lasgun something like 1/50. Significantly less likely against marines. Just going off what I remember without redoing the math here by the way, but the numbers will be in the right ballpark.
A plasma gun on overcharge had a bit below 50% to kill anything between a guardsman and a primaris marine. Just like in KT21 they gave plasma just enough of everything to be insanely effective without any part of it being overkill, but because of the rules system it was more egregious, where lower damage weapons only did something every 4 games.

With this context in mind, you'd think plasma to be expensive. Now I can't find or remember the points from the end of the edition and things did improve marginally but at the start, a plasma gun cost 3 points. A guardsman cost 7, more than double that, coming with a free lasgun. A marine 12.
So you could pay 12 points for an objective holding paperweight, or 15 for a terrifying murdermachine that could also hold objectives. It cost four times more to add an extra body to your team than to replace its peashooter with a deletion beam.
Once they opened up for more gunners with the further releases, it's no wonder everything had a special weapon. The only reason you wouldn't bring another plasma was if it broke some important threshold.

So I absolutely believe that KT21, which has a much better underlying system, if given better balancing on points, could avoid the plasma spam issue entirely even with equally free listbuilding. Just make plasma incredibly expensive. Sure you might get the opposite issue of bodyspam being too cheap, but I believe it can work.
I don't think it SHOULD go that far, but it wouldn't automatically return to spam if it did.
>>
>>91904357
Well that still leaves the problem of there being lists that are too tailored or not tailored enough against elites, as is, there's only one truly anti-elite team in kasrkin (two if you count deathwatch), everyone else has just about enough anti-marine, it's a good balance.
>>
>>91904341
Remeber to play strategic ploy for free every turn, you either choose Khorne (better combat) or Undivided (2x fight / 2x shoot) ploys.
Don't let them kill leader AND icon bearer so you can do that in every turn. That's how you save CP for rerolls and tactic ploys.
Use tactic ploys to ensure kills.
As you got max 3 operatives, but most likely 2 (acolyte & heavy gunner) with long-range weapons, get close faster with rest of your dudes. Put warded armour on your melee spetialist(s) if you're aftaid of getting shot.
Secure the most contestet objective with Icon Bearer - dude is counted as 4 APL when it comes to control.
>>
The warhammer community FAQ's and Errata page has the scouts and blades of khaine rules up there.

Hopeful to see more rules shuffled in there in the future.
>>
As someone who's new and generally retarded, is this new nightmare box just the kill teams? Or does it have the map/terrain with it? I'm not particularly interested in the armies right now but I do enjoy finding the maps to play catch up on with everyone else.
>>
>>91905435
Season 3 boxes sell terrain separately from teams. Also the new terrain world differently from open and close combats, so you can pick up the terrain (from salvation box) already, it's almost exactly the same as in nightmare.
>>
>>91905258
Wait, full scouts rules?
>>
>>91905258
holy shit what is this forget ...no wait but awsome for real
>>
>>91904441
That's actually something I like, the rock paper scissors where teams have good and bad match ups but there are almost never a meta team that's good against everything
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>>91903213
The 2001 Inquisitor game? That was an absolute mess when it came to balance. I’m guessing you mean something else.
>>
>>91905921
To be fair it's an RPG, not a skirmish game.
>>
>>91905834
the concept sounds fun until you've got to play a game that's more or less decided from the start.
>>
>>91905921
>some fag complains about the balance in GW's best game.
Honestly, miniatures wargaming isn't for you. League of Legends or DotA seems more your speed.
>>
>>91906159
Actual, LITERAL 9 IQ response
>>
>>91905921
i quess he meant the inquisitorial kill team.
but the inquisition game wasn't that pve or something? isn't balance in such a game ... rare? there are nearly always trap options and powerful builds in pve games.
>>
>>91906159
>>91906466
Relax grogs I love the game. But balance is not the goal of that game. I miss when games didn’t focus on balance and instead were about telling a good story. Kill team is a great game but half the time I have no idea what the objectives are meant to represent.
>>
>>91906562
>balance is not the goal of that game
basically the same i sayed just better sayed, btw never played that game (sadly, would have liked to) and didn't try to convince you that its a good game (even if you hate it then well you just hate it, no problem)
>>
>>91906159
Lol and Dota arent balanced at all tho.
Lol especially the meta is constantly shifting to keep it fresh, and purposefully unbalanced
>>
>>91906712
like 40k and a lot of other games
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>>91906759
The developers at GW are not competent enough for that
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>>91905508
Thanks anon. I'll see if I can find some salvation box somewhere.
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>>91906562
>half the time I have no idea what the objectives are meant to represent.
Just don't play matched play, each box come with fun scenarios
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>>91906782
Developers at Riot and Valve got much better tools for balancing the game, althoughbait
>>
I've already got loads to do, but I'm really thinking of starting a Harlequins kill team for fun.
>>
>>91907321
Fuck man, what draws you in? Rules? Models? Are you going to paint diamonds?
>>
>>91907321
Suggestion: finish just one of the things you have to do, then start it
That way your total amount of things to do doesn't increase
>>
>>91907321
if you are already procrastinating, harlequins are a bad thing to start (if you want to make them with all the patterns and stuff) but you do you, maybe the change of pace is what you need to start working (its just unlikely)
>>
>>91907057
I only have the starter set. What scenarios do the sets have that are more thematic?
>>
>>91907367
Starter set or Octarius starter set? Sorry, by "each box" I meant quarterly big box with 2 teams & terrain.

Anyway, if you got access to Octarius terrain, then
Get objective and run away:
>1.3 Fuel Run
Defending the keep:
>3.2 Ivac Inbound
Teams attacking each other from two big barricades:
>3.3 Breach Defences
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>>91907493
Starter set, Octarius set was pretty much sold out everywhere.
>>
>>91908172
There's not really enough terrain to play normal game with starter set, especially fun fluffy interesting scenarios - unless you come up with some improvised terrain.

All custom scenarios from the books from quarterly boxes are on wahapedia (rules > expansions).
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>>91908224
Thanks, I'll check it out. I have plenty of my own terrain. Various sci fi and fantasy stuff from battlefield in a box and battle systems because I don't like painting terrain. Enough to fill a kill team board at least.
>>
>>91902066
i dont think every team needs every single variant (im looking at you mandrakes) but nids have basically nothing that works for kill team well at all, and the closest ones like lictors have some major issues that they just either wouldnt work with kill team or would be unsatisfying/ terrible
>>
Speaking of the new box, have we seen any rules previews at all for either of the teams? Do we know anything about how they play yet?
>>
>>91912691
Other than some blurbs, no.
NL ability is "in midnight clad" and gives some defensive benefit when near terrain
Mandrakes hit harder "when darkness consumes their prey" whatever that means
>>
>>91912874
>when darkness consumes their prey
probably some kinda "burning" effekt
funny if they would hit harder if the enemy is in cover (in the shadows, darkness stuff)
>>
>>91912911
The blurb also mentioned their shadeweaver can cloak the battlefield in darkness, so it might be related to that
>>
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To the guys who were talking about stealthsuit teams and the guy who wanted an asymmetrical team a little while ago, what are your thoughts on getting a dawn of war style xv15 stealthsuit team with 1 or 2 xv25s? It's about time the xv15 comes back and gets a plastic kit and it would let you have some weaker statline stealthsuits
>>
>>91913251
i like the design of the xv15 more then xv25 but instead of mixing those, why not "mix" xv15 with the other numbers between? like 17 or whatever. some of them are already mentioned in lore. or make it easy and just make a complete team out of xv-__ some of them where just experimelntal suites good for making shit up in kill team, can also give a bit of a titans test team vibe (gundam reference)
>>
>>91912874
>gives some defensive benefit when near terrain
I bet fifty bucks night lords are going to be just fucking nurgle legionaries with a couple of new one note tricks.
Fucking geedubs
>>
>>91913450
Personally I don't think the xv17 or other numbers in-between (besides the xv22) would fit with the xv15s since they're not stealthsuits, I'd rather a team of all stealthsuits or a team of all non-stealthsuits than a mix, mostly for lore reasons since the tau has good lore of these stealthsuit teams and no reason to run a mixed team

If you really don't want xv25s in the team an xv22 would work imo since it's a prototype stealthsuit and it would be nice to have one that's not tied to commander shadowsun
>>
>>91913450
>>91913560
I also want an upgrade sprue for the xv25 and xv15s in plastic
>>
>>91913487
I think the blurb mentioned specifically being obscured. It might be something along the lines of
>operative is obscured while within 1" of heavy terrain, unless attacker is within 6/4/3/2"
Which would be interesting (and also countered by any team with obscurement-ignoring effects)
>>
>>91913560
but the xv17 was an one pilot infiltration suite and not even all numbers are known what they where so you cant say if they where stealth suites of not.
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>>91913621
You can call them not stealthsuits because of the name xv17, if it was a stealthsuit it would have a 5 as the second number since 7 denotes the suit serves an infiltrator role but a 5 denotes it specifically has stealth tech equipped.

If it was another ultralight class stealthsuit it would be a variation of the xv15 and thus be an xv15-(whatever the fuck), no 5 as the second number no stealth and thus shouldn't be fielded alongside stealthsuits
>>
>>91913682
then why is 22 a stealth suite and 85 is not?
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>>91913682
not to mention that 21 23 24 could be stealth, and stealth technologie doesn't need to be excluded from other suites especially infiltration.
>>
>>91913790
The crisis variant series is often mistyped as xv8x where it should be typed as xv8-x because they are variations of the crisis suit and not different suits, this is actually a fuck up on GWs part where they made suits first and naming second, like they made the 1-9 mass indicator and a 2 digit system but later added 3 digit suits meant to be read as 10-4 in the riptides case. The 22 is a stealthsuit because it's a prototype stealthsuit, the prototype takes priority hence the 2 rather than a 5

As for >>91913831
I never said about not making 21, 23 or 24 they would all work but I would rather they flesh out the already existing 22 and give us a non-commander unit for it.

Stealth would be excluded from other suits even infiltrators because they have decided to distinctly separate the two, due to the difference in names it makes a clear point that stealthsuits and infiltrators are two different things and by design stealthsuits can infiltrate due to the tech but an infiltrator suit does not do stealth without stealth tech, the 5 denomination would take precedence over the 7 denomination if a suit was meant for both roles since the 5 denominates the presence of stealth tech within the suit in any capacity hence the term "stealthsuit"
>>
I don't give a FUCK about Tau.
TTD
TTD
TTD
>>
>>91913967
>stealthsuits can infiltrate due to the tech but an infiltrator suit does not do stealth without stealth tech
that is debatable and i would not agree to that just like that, stealth suites are not capable of informaion gathering in a way an infiltration unit can do and if we think about imperial assassins needing to be small and nimble like most other ijnfiltration units what bigger suites like the xv25 or the (dont know the nuber) gostkhel cannot do at all
>>
>>91914296
Go get turned into a servitor or something

>>91914306
Fair enough, stealthsuits are mostly equipped for combat. It was more a comment on how the 5 designation would take precedence over the 7 designation and infiltration in the terms of entering the enemy ranks undetected. Though the xv25 is still fairly nimble, it's still a light battlesuit and barely bigger than a Breacher after all.

If they do make a stealthsuit team having a xv15-7 or xv25-7 where it specializes in infiltration over combat would be cool, have it be an auspex equivalent to play into the information gathering.
>>
New picture in catbox for whoever is making the next OP:
https://files.catbox.moe/pfyt2y.png
I revoked the exaction squad 1box note but kept novitiates. Expanding the system with more different marks for different tiers of viability is something I'll leave aside for now, to not make it overly complicated.
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>>91914402
>5 designation would take precedence over the 7
okidoki

>having a xv15-7 or xv25-7
yea would be funny, im a bit courious what number the spacemarine armored infitration units had (if any)
>>
>>91914485
Blooded and Navy Breachers are 1 box teams
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>>91914710
I can buy the argument for Blooded, but I see players far too often using the extra basic troopers over either the ogryn or chieftain (or both) for me to want to include them. Navy breachers though no, lmao. You can sort of get a second gunner from the box if you have a spare 28mm base and are willing to do some conversion, but even after that you need an extra box to get more armsmen to replace the c.a.t., gheistskull, and void-jammer whenever they're not useful (which is often). They're second only to vetguard in "you can technically play them using one box but realistically you need two" notoriety.
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>>91914743
>which is often
Just don't build them then lmao
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>>91914765
Anon, the box contains 10 breacher bodies. You need 12 models for a full team. From a single box, you're forced to take the pet units. Plus they're very useful under specific circumstances, not always bad.
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>>91914569
I'm not sure, I'd assume it's be a 1 since they were never mass produced or even fielded as much as the 22 to run the 2 designation and got turned into essentially training dummies if I remember correctly but I'm not sure, might be what the xv17 is based off of but I'd assume it's be heavy enough to be a 27 if not a 37 if it got a full designation.

I do wish we got more lore on the other suits like the 17 and 26
gw needs to fix they number system since we have up to 13 mass class now and the current system doesn't allow for multiple suits of the same mass & specialization without them being variations of the main suit
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>>91914296
The problem with tau is they themselves fucking suck. The general idea is ok and the tech design is pretty cool, just why the fuck they had to be blue gay Roosevelt aliens. Why james, why
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>>91914880
im not rememvbering the details but the spacemarine "maschienes" where used at least once in practice run around withreal marines and when the fight startet against tau they shot the marines in the back (the story statet they where dealt with fairly quick so probably deemed a failure in tau eyes)
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>>91915224
Even the "grimdark fix" with the brainwashing is bad, there's a few good moments with the civil war but it loses its impact with the "noble caste has mind control" trope

Also all the cool and interesting septs have no lore
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>>91915304
I think the whole squad of taumarines only managed to wound a single real marine

best way for it to end imo marines should not be a part of the tau, even chaos or traitor marines would not server under them

And the tau were stupid thinking of the marines more of people piloting the armor, you take a marine out of his armor and you still have a marine, you take a tau out of his battlesuit and he's just a tau

Personally I don't understand peoples fascination with taumarines as both a marine player and tau player. Not every faction needs marines and the marines are born from/follow a very different doctrine than the tau use anyway
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>>91915391
i dont get it either maybe its just having real scifi equipment on humans, there are a lot of people that also want tactical marines to look real tactical like normal sodiers. everyone likes different things i guess.
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>>91915340
>Also all the cool and interesting septs have no lore
Jokes about ayy lmao aside, the lore is their big problem. I remember back then people being disgusted and saying they didn't fucking fit in, and pathetically enough no interesting lore only exacerbated the issue
Gw should had retconned them into slaad descendants or some shit a la necron retcon. These guys are literally the token black guy with an orange tracksuit in a goth club
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>>91915553
>people that also want tactical marines to look real tactical like normal sodiers
=
>people entering a sushi place wanting to have their fish grilled and with fries
Why people is retarded like this
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>>91916498
well part of the hobby is crafting and individualising your models and sometimes you like something mostly but not completly and want to change the details.
there are enougth people going to mc's or just buying döner or whatever and just dont like pickles or so, you can ask nicely if they change it if not you go somwhere else or eat it with pickles, no problem.
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>>91916589
If we're talking about diversion yes, but I read that as people entering the franchise and just outright autistically wanting something else
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>>91916987
well there shure are both types of people.
for me the important part is asking or demanding for it. (and there are both types of that as well.)
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Can you use Plant Transponder in ITD?
It seems like legally there's no space to do it
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>>91917946
indeed, you can, but you shouldn't because there's almost no places to do it.
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>>91917969
That's what I meant, do the walls not count? If they count then it's pretty much impossible
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Bolt rifle or auto bolt rifle?
Against 8-10 wound teams if that matters
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>>91918017
bolt rifle is 100% superior if not going against teams with invulnerable saves and you can afford to put scopes on it. It straight up becomes marine killing. auto bolt is minimally better if you can't put scopes on it.
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>>91918037
I can only afford one scope while also taking auspex and blessed bolts (which appears to me to be much stronger than the scope?)
My first thought was that with a doctrine up and a scope you make it a lot harder for the opposing operative to save against your attacks, as not only are you likely to get AP1 they also are required to roll crits to save against some of the damage
Thus giving the bolt rifle more reliable damage and a better chance of getting a kill against operatives with 3+ saves, which I'll be playing against a lot
I haven't played intercessors before so I'm not familiar with how often doctrines come into play
In addition to this you get an overlap with doctrines and ceaseless
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>>91918169
well yeah blessed bolts is only one per team for a reason, also usually doctrines are more or less always on.
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>Warpcoven (Me) vs. Hearthkyn Salvagers
>Escalating hostilities mission
>map that was preset at the FLGS we decided to use
Wish I took more pictures but we got in late and wanted to make sure we finished before closing. Was a nail biter, he ended up getting 1 extra VP with his excavate tac op. Was a lot of fun since the map had a ton of bridges and teleporting rubrics everywhere. If he hadn't absolutely deleted my Destiny sorcerer in the first turn (was my fault, left him in a pretty shitty spot), probably would have tabled him. Great game all around and first time with this team. Definitely want to use them again.



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