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Is magic just hidden AI?
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>>91885967
Not universally, no.
There is nothing universal about magic, except for it being a supernatural or unnatural power, because it isn't real.
>>
eywa-nna suck my nuts
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>>91886050
Settings like Dungeons & Dragons, or any fiction with a hard enough magic system really, will rely on this sort of logical thinking to even narratively exist, being so damn conveniently contrived, or just artificially arbitrary. Hidden, occult infrastructure. These are *games*. All myth, folklore, religion, etc, come across as games too.

You can’t really argue that magic in -any- fiction -isn’t- intelligent, or intelligently made, in some way. Because it definitely is. Even if it’s just the damn author.

>>91886086
I apologize for thinking several steps ahead of you.
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>>91886050
>not universally
There is no structure to the universe?
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>>91885967
Depends on the setting

More interesting question: What are some GOOD setting where magic is either definitely AI or might be AI?

I think the Endless universe is criminally underrated, and it has definitely AI magic. The precursors, called the Endless, basically made a universal internet out of nanomachines, Dust, which certain people can access and manipulate. The Endless die out, but Dust still exists. New civilizations come up and nearly all of their developments are affected by the presence of Dust and what it can do. Dust can basically emulate anything you'd think magic can do, as well as being a major boon to manufacturing and all sorts of other things.
The different races of the Endless universe are very unique and interesting. Its sad there isn't an official RPG, either of the medieval setting or the scifi one.
>>
>>91886783
>Depends on the setting
No. Name me one (1) magic system that isn’t intelligent or intelligently considered. You can’t.
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>>91886811
>isn’t intelligent or intelligently considered
What did he mean by this?
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>>91886834
All magic everywhere is too convenient for it not to be the invention of some intelligence. Like a game of some sort. All of it is entertained. But by what?


Even without overt magic, humans will consider things magical all on their own. It’s how religions started. “Those shiny dots in the night sky? They’re gods.”.
>>
>>91886811
>RPG
>Unknown Armies adept magic - it's directly your will/obsession combined with symbological matrix of the world.
>Double Cross - mutant powers aren't AI by definition of being part of you.
>Mage: The Awekening - magic works via platonic ideals, not working with outside intelligence.
The issue with your statement is that it's based on the assumption that magic works on basis of asking magical supercomputer to do stuff, instead of either doing stuff with your own power or by interacting with set, mindless and will-less rules of the natural world.
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>>91886894
You’re an idiot. All of that is intelligently considered. You’re not even on the same level of thought.

What do you think the author is?
>>
>>91886914
Oh. Its retarded.
Or high off his shitty 100 level philosophy class's farts.
Basically the same thing
>>
>>91886894
Anon, if the magic comes from the hands, the eyes, the forehead, etc, it isn’t natural. It wouldn’t evolve up to such a point naturally. It just wouldn’t. Progression happens in one of two ways. Naturally or intelligently/artificially.
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>>91886894
The Supernal in MtAw is definitely “alive” in some form, lol. Similar to the God-Machine. They are non-entity entities. Each Watchtower is a rank 10 being. The Primal Wild is given as an example one. The Exarch of Forces -is- violence and warfare. Concepts are 100% alive. Unknown Armies also/similarly consists of intelligences bigger than you.
>>
>>91886884
This wigga never heard of evolution
>have a multiverse of infinite bullshit
>a percentage of these have convenient magic
>tards look at this and think “it must be intelligently designed!”
You ARE the stargazer
>>
>>91886914
Author is a being existing outside the story's verse that doesn't come into consideration. Again, Unknown Armies adept powers aren't externally designed or managed, being rooted in personal will of user (with some backwash from wills of others). Double Cross powers aren't managed by external intellect, etc.
>>91886884
This argument is based on the idea that magic cannot be logically arranged and follow patterns and rules without being deliberately designed. I mean, friction allowing us to start fire with sticks to warm up and cook up food is also convenient.
>>
>>91886914
There is no author. Tolkien didn’t write the hobbit, because there is no Tolkien in middle earth.
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>>91886996
Read >>91886967 before you give yourself a brain aneurysm.
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>>91887014
Wow, you really are a confined sort of thinker, totally incapable of transcendent thought. I pity your ass.
>>
>>91887016
Too late, lol. That’s hilarious tho. Literally unable to articulate his logic, kinda sad
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>>91887028
Your philosophy professor isn't marking your posts. You don't have to be a pedantic retard here.
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>>91887004
Imagine if gunpowder ONLY functioned in a specific barrel size/shape of a penis, one engraved with ‘peepee’ in Latin, and ONLY if you spoke ‘cum diablo!’ before pulling the trigger.

I think that’s the kind of “conveniently constructed” or “artificially sophisticated” he’s referring to, anon. Not your fault you can’t dissect a spell using logic.

Fireball *only* shoots in a straight line, from your middle finger, after screaming “Bababooie!”. Also, you had to roll into a ball a mixture of bat poop (guano) and sulphur, and no matter how much you add to it the mixture it ALWAYS produces the SAME size of Fireball.

Magic like that is like pushing invisible buttons on an invisible machine. Is it ‘behind’ our dimensional perceptions? Maybe. But it’s still heavily artificial. Who built it? The gods? The grand wizard of the world? Doesn’t really matter, since it would require an intelligence either way.

Settings like Dungeons & Dragons come across as closer to science-fiction when you bother to analyze how robotic it is.

This is the sort of logic you people are missing. Again, this thread right here: >>91858454
>>
>>91887028
On the contrary, I am able to imagine infinite separate realities, while you remain a single-system caveman.
>>
>>91886967
Except it is explicitly natural part of human being in UA, with adept magic being learnable by people with sufficiently developed souls. There are even known biological diseases that interfere with magic. Also, why not? Evolution does favour solutions based on using existing organs instead of growing completely new ones.
>>91886986
There are beings of magic in Mage, but the magic itself doesn't depend on mediating with them but on the rules of the realm of the ideas. As for UA, I did specify Adept Magic, which depends on your mind and soul instead of Avatar Magic.
>>91887054
That's just translating DnD bullshit gameplay conventions to the actual game lore, with added element of deliberately absurd yapping.

In Unknown Armies you can actually personalize adept spells. Sure, it takes effort to make an completely new one, but that's the difference between following established procedure and creating a new one. And before you ask who build these rules - you did it. Adepts are guys building these rules.

Beside, even if we take your example at face value it's just the example of procedure producing a specific reaction. Your example tells us nothing about underlying mechanics except the fact that you need an exact procedure. Also, your assumption that you can't change the parameters of fireball by tinkering with material components is based on gameplay abstraction, not the diegetic setting element.
>>
>>91887054
>Doesn’t really matter, since it would require an intelligence either way.
Not at all. Coincidence can easily explain it.

This is the same logic that theists use to explain a "tailored" universe. You're looking at things in a too anthropocentric way. Take your obviously DnD inspired example. While those things are how a wizard might produce a fireball, there are other creatures that produce fireballs in other ways. The rules for how a fireball is produced just happen to be available to humanoid creatures, but how many magics are out there that can't be produced by humanoid anatomy?

Magic in this sort of arrangement could be like a universal set of strings, and plucking those strings randomly occasionally produces a song (spell). There need not be an intelligence that arranged those strings or mediates what is a song.
>>
>>91887138
>but the magic itself doesn't depend on mediating with them

Yes it does lol. You literally need a Watchtower to create an Imperial spell to awaken *any given mage*. There is no exception! If you’re going to argue with OP, at least get your lore right.
>>
>>91886150
Any "setting" whose magic doesn't have the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills itself is decidedly not intelligent. More often than not, a work of fantasy will have its magic be a power with no conscious or subconscious will.
So what makes you think it is always intelligent in every work ever when there are so many examples where it isn't?
>>
>>91887138
Evolution is about as “intelligent” as a blind idiot. Despite it somehow knowing that prey animals cannot see orange, which translates as green to prey sight (green fur does not exist in nature), evolution does not give a flying fuck about where your laryngeal nerve is located. It makes do with one dimensional causality.
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>>91887258
Exactly. Which is why magic evolving with ties to how animal perceives and influences the world already makes perfect sense.
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>>91887256
>More often than not, a work of fantasy will have its magic be a power with no conscious or subconscious will.

That nonetheless still behaves like >>91887054

Yeah, if I discovered a substance that enabled me to run like the Flash, or fly like Superman, or shoot fire from my hands like Pyro, I’d IMMEDIATELY think “who made this?”. Not “oh my god it’s just like oil”.

Especially if it’s an endless spell list of endlessly variable effects. For some reason bending space to “blink” ten meters away is lower level spell than what is essentially a fucking grenade/bomb (yes, fireball).

A fireball coming from the band is infinitely less believable than someone just up and spontaneously combusting, because why the fuck does the fire come from the hands? Why not the ballsack? Christ.
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>>91887297
>band
hand*
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>>91887297
First things first, you are straying from the core of the argument which was:
>Is magic just hidden AI?"
And most people answered that no, it most of magic doesn't work like hidden AI, due to being set of impersonal rules of reality without a will of its own, no consciousness and no intellect to speak of.

Your current argument is that magic is too convenient to not be intelligently designed, but it it's moving the goalposts since there are plenty of systems that are intelligently designed without being based on "hidden AI".
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>>91887297
Why would it come from the ballsack? Why not the hands?
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>>91887297
Anyway, beside your point about "convenient" design not being related to main argument, there are two basic in universe explanations for it:
>For magic as evolved trait
You don't shot fireball from ballsack, because people with magic ballsacks castrated themselves using their powers and didn't pass their genes. Magic coming out from your hands makes as much sense as snake venom coming out of their teeth or your opposable thumbs being on your hands instead of your feet. These solutions just worked out better.
>magic as science/craft/art
Spells are designed by mages so obviously no sane person crates balls targeted fireball the same way nobody makes balls operated jackhammers.
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>>91887360
>is it intelligent
>is it artificial
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>>91885967
Nanomachines, son.
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>>91887477
Yes, these are two separate questions.
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>>91887360
>there are plenty of systems that are intelligently designed without being based on "hidden AI".
If it’s intelligently designed, how is it not artificial?
You guys are making OP look like a genius.
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>>91887494
>he cant connect the two/dots
lol
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>>91887506
Artificial (made by somebody on purpose, using their intelligence) =/= Artificial Intelligence (artificially made intelligence)
It's literally basic logic. All AIs are artificial, not all artificial things are AIs. Hammers are artificial and famously mindless.
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>>91887527
The crux of this thread is about how intelligent the magic is. Or at least that one anon, if not OP.
I don’t care if AI falls into it. It’s a no brainer. All magic is artificial. I agree with that.
>>
>>91887527
>>
>>91885967
no, but it IS neural
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>>91887297
What you would THINK wouldn't change what it IS. What level the spell is or from whence it is cast doesn't make it an intelligence. What you think is believable doesn't change the facts.
Magic, along with other supernatural forces, functions in ways that no author can explain, because no mind could understand such an explanation, because nobody has the senses to even draw a frame of reference to. Just because it operates outside of what we can understand, doesn't automatically give it a mind and memory. That is something you CAN DO, but isn't ALWAYS TRUE for every magic.
If a work doesn't explicitly state magic is conscious, it's best to come to the simplest conclusion and assume it isn't.
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>>91885967

Frank Herbert did it better
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>>91887054
The Material Components of Spells is also something gravely overlooked by almost everyone. Some of that shit is hard to find, yo
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>>91885967
If they aren't allowed to set stone upon stone how do they make their arrowheads?
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>>91887921
They get them from praising James Cameron's shitty personal politics.
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>>91887921
Difference between setting (permanently placing) and clipping. Ejwah got rules-lawyered.
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>>91887855
Don't bother, anon.
This is one of those threads where the OP is arguing something else using /tg/ concepts. Specifically he's attempting to use the logic of theist arguments of intelligent design on /tg/ settings, for some reason. Probably autism. Or ego.
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>>91885967
are na'vi extremely precious and lovely?
Yes. The answer is yes.
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>>91885967
No, magic is computer code hacking.
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>>91889266
But who built the computer? The code?
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>>91889401
Who built your dna code?
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>>91889497
mom and pops
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>>91885967
So is obsidian and meteoric iron in-play then?
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>>91889507
That’s like saying I wrote your post
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>>91890017
Obsidian still needs knapping, I'd say meteoric iron is alright if you can find a non-rock surface to work it on.
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>>91890203
>That’s like saying I wrote your post
You definitely caused that post with your question. But you didn't write it.

His parents definitely made his DNA, however.
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>>91890243
obsidian is not metal though, it's more like special type of glass
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>>91890308
Nah, I had equivalent input into the writing of that post as his ‘rents did in writing the string of code that’s been the product of a millennia-old process originating all the way back in the primordial soup. They aren’t the authors, they didn’t even create their own contributions. They’re the robot arm putting the label on a heinz ketchup bottle, and you’re calling them the source of the sauce? Nah, famgooli.
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>>91890451
>They aren’t the authors, they didn’t even create their own contributions.
That's illogical. An anthill is still created by ants even if they don't consciously understand architecture or why they make the design decisions they do. By your logic, no athlete actually does anything other than train because during events their bodies mostly respond to unconscious triggers induced by training. To whit, no one actually invents anything because the imagination is also induced by unconscious triggers, and thus there are no authors, no creators, and we are all just meat puppets that serve no function beyond existing for the whims of some theorized higher power, if that even exists... otherwise we are just inanimate dolls in an inanimate universe acting out movements induced by electrochemical reaction.

I reject your retarded premise.
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>>91887054
>“Bababooie!”
Lost it.
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>>91890514
>thus there are no authors, no creators, and we are all just meat puppets that serve no function beyond existing for the whims of some theorized higher power, if that even exists
A correct deduction, and my answer to >>91889401
> I reject your retarded premise
Then you must recognise me as the author of your post and, to whit, acknowledge that said post is written in bad faith by one who is merely arguing for argument’s sake (with himself)
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>>91886966
Philosophy 101 Moron here.
That anon is just retarded
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>>91890595
>Then you must recognise me as the author of your post
Again you're failing at logic. You are the impetus and inspiration for my post, I am the author. One hand acts, the other motivates action. You misconstrue cause for effect.
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>>91890595
You are arguing both for and against Theseus’ ship. I am the entire fucking Heinz factory. Respect me.
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>>91891161
This (me) was meant for >>91890763 (also me)
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>>91891170
That post (>>91890763
me) was not yours (you). Go fuck yourself [you (also you)].
>>
>>91888167
I did get pretty strong creationist vibes from this thread, so good to hear that at least one anon thought the same.
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>>91885967
>be human leader
>be in charge of mission to pandora
>flip coin to choose a hemisphere
>liberally apply thermobaric munitions to entire hemisphere
>land in most mineral rich region of the pandoran hemisphere which you have just swept clean of all life by fire
>send patrols to equatorial edge of wasteland to keep natives out
>stripmine entire hemisphere
>by the time any uproar from earth stops your operation
>you've already gotten all of the minerals from the dead hemisphere
>you're already slant-mining into the rock under the live hemisphere to take those minerals without bothering anyone on the surface
>fully half of the na'avi "peoples" and the entire pandoran ecology survives unharmed
>retire wealthy
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>>91887490
underrated comment
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>>91890017
>obsidian
yes.
>meteoric iron
no.
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>>91885967
Read Off to Be the Wizard by Meyer Scott
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>>91885967
Yes.
In the distant future, the human species upload themselves into virtual realities completely indistinguishable from reality.
Humans no longer exist in real-space. No longer suffer the crudity of flesh.
Some of these virtual realities have manipulated physics-systems, which in some instantiations is know as magic
The systems of magic differ across the infinite simulated realities, some with harder rules, some with more arbitrary results
All these realities are controlled and maintained by the god-like AI that controls the system
The inhabitants of these realities will go on for ever, until the death of the sun, when all local processing power is extinguished
...
How do we escape the infinite prison we created for ourselves?
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>>91885967
Brapditional James?
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>>91891273
I accept my concession.
>>
wow op really triggered you shits
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>>91887148
>Coincidence can easily explain it.
Suuuuure, a 10/10 supermodel blonde, blue-eyed mermaid is suuuuurely coincidence. Nevermind spells that function like cellphone apps.
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>>91891477
>spend more money on the explosives/transport of said explosives to glass a hemisphere than you will get from the mining expedition
>have organs repurposed by your creditors
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>>91893585
Anon, unobtanium is literally required to save humanity from extinction. You can charge whatever you damn well want for it.
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>>91893559
Your line of thinking is
>the mermaid is a blond blue-eyed bombshell > these are things we are attracted to > therefore the world was built with us in mind
But applying Occam’s razor, we have far less assumptions with:
>survival of the fittest > for mermaids, fitness = attractiveness towards their prey
Mermaids are attractive because attractive mermaids survive.
Unrelated: Could you give an example of something that you would consider a coincidence?
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>>91893683
Anon, a realistic "mermaid" would evolve to be overly blubbery to deal with the cold depths, hairless, and horribly toothed. Probably predators.

Stop humanizing evolution so conveniently.
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>>91893717
you're responding to a flat earther
>>
Unsounded's magic system is pretty cool, you give commands to the "system console" of the universe and can reassign meta aspects, but the interesting part is that there's normal physics underneath so if you assign stone to be liquid then it will normalize to being "lava" since that's what liquid stone is supposed to be.

Also if you get the syntax wrong the universe will delete you starting with the skin
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>>91885967
Magic-k in the real world is facilitated by deals with subroutines of the failed caretaker AI of our colony Earth.
>>
>magic is just sufficiently advanced technology
>implying sufficiently advanced technology isn’t magic

The future looks more magical than whatever shit past people could come up with.
Imagine showing a medieval person a mathematical diagram today, demonstrated through mirrors or some shit. Try explaining the quantum world to them.
I guarantee you alien tech would look downright surreal to us, even today.
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>>91894761
When I watched the movie Annihilation I thought “this is what magic looks like”, minus the sinister alien agenda.
>>
>>91893717
Well isn’t that exactly what mermaids are like, underneath the magic? Besides, we’re talking about the survival of magical effects, not biology.

Like let’s take creationistanon’s penis fireball, for example. Spells “survive” by being used and useful (like any other tool or skill). Considering that evolution already incentivises a concealment of genitalia, which spell do you think is more likely to be forgotten? The fireball cast through the hands, or the fireball cast through the dick?

>>91893744
Nope, nice strawman attempt but flerthing actually requires more gymnastics nowadays than sphereoids.
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>>91894936
>Besides, we’re talking about the survival of magical effects, not biology.

It’s not biology, it’s causality. Biology falls into it. Either something progresses naturally/unintelligently, or it progresses artificially/intelligently. There is no third alternative. Domestication is an act of intelligence.
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>>91893744
So what?
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>>91894761
What’s funny is that retards think their endlessly contrived spell lists can be anything BUT some sort of beep boop machine behind the scenes.
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>>91894961
A fair point about causality. But your distinction between natural and artificial is lacking. If you defined what intelligence is, that might help, but so far all you’ve done is make ants very proud of how intelligent they are.
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>>91895090
It would be funny, but it’s sombered by the realisation that imbeciles like yourself are too creatively hamstrung to imagine the inverse.
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>>91885967
the A in AI stands for artificial, so no, but eywa is clearly a naturally occurring intellect
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>>91895314
Artificial:
— ‘made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally, especially as a copy of something natural.’

Yes, ant hills are artificial. You can definitely argue the artificial as natural, by way of it being a natural expectation.
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>>91895427
Something like Pandora wouldn’t happen naturally without some sort of guiding intelligence. It’s like a fantastical carbon copy of Earth! Almost as though… a human wrote it…

This goes double for whatever “Eywa” is. Perhaps it’s even that guiding intelligence.
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>>91895468
I was referring to domestication, not construction. But sure, that too.
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>>91895090
Contrived spell lists can be game mechanical abstractions that don't perfectly match in-setting realities, or the best tools and procedures humans have come up with to harness and interact with a force that in itself is not so neat and convenient.
>>
>>91885967
Man, OPs mind will be absolutely blown when he realizes that the Cloud are actually just physical server banks with a telephone number you can call.
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>>91894961
Your error, repeatedly, is assigning intelligent design at the moment things appear "too convenient."

Since this is a thinly veiled creationist argument, lets use a classic argument against a "convenient" universe.

Imagine a natural depression in a field. Now imagine it rains, filling this depression. Later on you walk by and you say "wow, its incredibly convenient that the pool of water is exactly the shape of that depression!" But of course you wouldn't say that, because you know that the water is shaped to the size and outline of the cavity. Similarly if some creature, like mosquito larva were living in that pool, they might think "ah this pool must be designed for me, because it is deep enough and wide enough that I can live here!" When in reality it wouldn't be alive to say that if the pool were not deep and wide enough for it to live there. It would simply not be alive to even say that.

To put this whole argument back together again, magic in these systems can easily be explained as useable to humanoids in the setting, because if it weren't, we wouldn't be playing it. No intelligence needed. Furthermore, to use the example up thread, humanoids don't use fireballs fired from their dicks, because those that do tend to die, while the ones who figured out how to fireball from their hands don't tend to die. Again, no intelligence needed.
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>>91895493
>Pandora couldn’t have happened naturally
>a magician must have written it into existence
Discworld logic dumfuk
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>>91895876
>Since this is a thinly veiled creationist argument
LOL Stopped reading here
You sound insane and unhinged
>>
>>91895876
That’s also not the kind of convenience he is poking at here >>91887054

Rain is convenient but perfectly natural. Rain shops the shape of dicks? Yeah, nah, some alien did that. There is no other way or explanation really.
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>>91895932
I think he’s talking to the retarded OP
>>
>>91895957
There is:
>raindrops take the shape of dicks because it’s in their molecular makeup to organise like that.
I would accuse you of being in creative, but snowflakes exist, you’re just stoopid.
>>
>>91895957
>Rain shops the shape of dicks? Yeah, nah, some alien did that. There is no other way or explanation really.
>He's never watched clouds go by and pointed out the ones shaped like dicks to his friends
>>91895962
Its the same argument in both cases. Convenience is not an argument for intelligent design. Only the unimaginative or people willfully twisting or ignoring facts and coincidence or their own biases tend to make that argument.
>>
>>91895962
OP isn’t retarded if he says all magic comes across as artificially made tho, because thats just common sense; people who lack common sense get triggered when they’re confronted by it; they subconsciously view themselves as stupid for their failings to see such simple sense
>>
>>91895985
So quantum physics is conveniently penis shaped now too, is it?

You don’t see how fucking absurd you look right now lol

How about the face of Hitler instead of a penis?
>>
>>91895986
>He's never watched clouds go by and pointed out the ones shaped like dicks to his friends

Is every cloud the shape of a dick? Because if so, then yes, I’d assume some alien fucker is responsible for this level of blatant artistic humor.
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>>91895876
Glad to see not all of 4chan has intelligently-designed themselves a third chromosome.
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>>91895986
>Convenience is not an argument for intelligent design
Of course it is. Nature isn’t convenient. It’s “convenient” only by way of survival.
>>
Retards in this thread really thinking humans could evolve with the ability to shoot fire from their hands and still look 100 percent human
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>>91895876
>magic in these systems can easily be explained as useable to humanoids in the setting, because if it weren't, we wouldn't be playing it. No intelligence needed.

The author intelligently made it so. His fictional physics conformed to suit the author’s needs.
>>
>>91896047
So? The author doesn't exist in-setting. His existence isn't relevant to what's natural and what's artificial in the setting.
>>
>>91896018
Nature is neither convenient nor inconvenient. It just is what it is. Its a human conceit that things are easier or harder for us. We take a look at what has evolved or the basic conditions and say "gee it sure is convenient that these trees have fruit" but in reality that fruit developed as a method to transport seeds, with no intelligence involved in its creation. Or "gee its sure convenient that all these animals have meat we can eat" but in reality, we can eat animal flesh because we evolved to eat animal flesh. The animals are not here for our convenience.
>>
>>91896061
>The author doesn't exist in-setting
That doesn’t excuse the fiction from being absurd to the point where it could only -be- the creation of some silly author.

You are numerous steps behind in this conversation.
>>
>>91896061
The author is God. He's extrapolating using his creationist playbook of arguments.
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>>91896065
Go ahead, please try explaining to me why every raindrop being the face of Hitler, a person sourced to a specific planet, wouldn’t require an humorous alien intelligence of some kind to justify?

You do know rain exists elsewhere in the universe, right?
>>
>>91885967
>Is magic just hidden AI?
No.
>picture
>>>/tv/
>>>/tv/
>>>/tv/
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>>91896092
>Argument Ad Absurdum
That isn't even an extrapolation of what is being said in this thread.
>>
>>91896071
Most fiction, however, isn't absurd in that way. Some fiction being absurd int hat way isn't really relevant to this thread's topic.
>>
>>91896113
You can’t do it! That’s the kind of artificial OP is getting at, and you can’t even detect it! You’re just an idiot! You see floating head of Hitler, and you really think to yourself “nature allowed this to happen, no intellect whatsoever”. Lol.

These are also games. So by default any sort of magic is going to come across as contrived or robotic, as >>91886150 puts it.
>>
>>91896123
>Most fiction, however, isn't absurd in that way.

All fiction breaks down the more you analyze it. Cope. Star Trek isn’t science-fiction to the sufficiently educated physicist, it is fantasy by that point. Tough shit, buddy.

All fiction everywhere is varying shades of silly. No exception.
>>
>>91885967
No, magic is specific to black people.
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>>91896191
You don't know what silly means, and whether science fiction holds up under scrutiny has pretty much nothing to do with how magic works in fantasy settings.
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>>91896304
You’re adorable.
>>
>>91896304
>whether science fiction holds up under scrutiny has pretty much nothing to do with how magic works
When I hear sound in space, in any sci-fi, my first thought is “magic”.

Space does not work that way!
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>>91895993
>Source: my ass
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>>91896325
Okay, anon. That remains irrelevant to the discussion at hand, but okay.
>>
>>91896357
Nah, it’s pretty fucking relevant.
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>>91896003
Why not? Because you’d personally find it unbelievable? Unbelievable shit happens all the time, for example I’m having trouble believing you’re this dense.
>>
>>91896161
Why does hitler look like raindrops? You won’t be able to answer this.
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>>91896387
Already got you here >>91896092

Explain to me how Hitler’s face is a universal constant.
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>>91896071
Just do me a favour for a second.
Imagine a world that looks, to you, like it should be the creation of an author, but isn’t.

Get back to me when you’re done.
>>
>>91895493
>This goes double for whatever “Eywa” is.
E.Y.W.A
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>>91896408
>Explain why a universal constant is a universal constant
I diagnose you with chronic retardation and recommend a series of marmoset brain transplants to improve your intellect.
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>>91896449
Lmao, btfo
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>>91896449
Um, that’s not what he asked.
>>
>>91896030
It’s almost like it’s routine to shit on OP even when OP is right.
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>>91896191
Anyone who disagrees with this post is automatically a fucking loser in this argument.
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>>91896552
It literally is. It’s like having 299792458 games on steam, and going “hey wait a minute! That’s the speed of light! Why is the speed of light coincidentally equal to my games list? Bwaahhhh??? Must be an author!”
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>>91896608
This is true, with the caveat that reality is just as silly (if not moreso) than fiction
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>>91896345
Wait, do you seriously think an author is incapable of writing error into their work?

Listen, if an author writes shit like “magic is the opposite of science and wizards can’t use technology” then you’re absolutely allowed to point out how dumb that sounds, and how a wizard’s staff -is- a piece of technology.

I am allowed to educate. You’re just butthurt about it.
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>>91896367
No, your autism is completely irrelevant.
>>
>>91896632
Nope. Not what he asked. You dodged the question. You’re panicking now. I am no longer invested in this topic since you’re going out of your way to miss it. Many such cases.
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>>91896655
No, I don’t think that. I DO seriously think that most people don’t consider magic a constructed thing. And I seriously think you’re talking out your ass when you say otherwise.
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>>91896645
I agree, but reality at least makes (fundamental) sense by way of it existing, and anything contrary to that is just “woah, weird”, which is subjective.
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>>91896655
>you’re absolutely allowed to point out how dumb that sounds
That doesn't sound dumb at all, though, it sounds absolutely kino.
>a wizard's staff -is- a piece of technology.
No it's not, especially if the author has already established that magic and technology as concepts within the universe are in opposition.
>>
>>91896668
KEK
>>
>>91896675
> I DO seriously think that most people don’t consider magic a constructed thing.

Then they’re idiots, and so are you. The fact that fantasists today are already endlessly arguing over what is/isn’t magic proves that. Magic to one is not magic to another. Magic is what you make of it. Fuck.

You are so behind on your thinking skills. I don’t like insulting you, but I have to. I have no patience with retards in a world of retards. You’ve already ruined so many of my hobbies with your horse shit logic. How can I trust you at all?

Next you’re going to tell me that math/quantification (1s and 0s) are human inventions.
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>>91896690
>No it's not
Yes it is. Technology is just applied science. Both sides of the same coin. Making a fire is a science. The wheel is a piece of technology.

If anything works at all, it is science. This is why you cannot actually separate science from magic. Magic is a matter of nuance. It exists the same way holes, cold or darkness exists. Absences. It doesn’t exist, in order to exist.

I guess OP really isn’t dumb after all. You guys are!
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>>91896698
It’s not common sense if it’s not common sense, dumbass. Just accept you’re a weirdo outlier and be bold about it, don’t hide behind a nonexistent supposed consensus
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>>91896680
Sure, but weird (other) realities are just as fundamentally sensical unto themselves as non-weird (our) reality.

My man, you have been constantly blown the fuck out in this thread. >>91887051 >>91887055 >>91895343 >>91896076 You’re very confused about what you’re even arguing for >>91891161 You run from questions that destroy your points >>91893683 >>91893744 >>91896397 >>91896429 And then you have the stones to accuse others of doing just that >>91896668 Even the philosophy nerds are laughing at you >>91890637 Maybe take the L and go back to /lit/?
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>>91896820
>abloobloobloo
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>>91896820
>Appealing to peers
Learn to think for yourself, regardless of how right or wrong you are.
>>
>>91896820
>>91896991
>>91897007
This is the reason dad has no respect for you guys come on
>>
Its another
>OP refuses to actually state terms and definitions and so is free to argue circularly and move those terms and definitions around in order to claim victory no matter how many times he's blown the fuck out
episode
>>
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>>91897036
I just want to na'vipost bros
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>>91898060
Oh god
Cameron
PLS
>>
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>>91900300
>>
OP really butt blasted you lot
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>>91895876
Fact is Earth is a colony and the Owner is returning.
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>>91902773
>noooo, magic isn’t constructed
>oh wait it literally is constructed
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>>91885967
Magic is just misinterpretation or exaggeration of high tech, knowledge and stuff that were barely understood (or not at all) or described with inappropriate terminology that warped with time
A surprising amount of tropes have origins in archaic contact with high technology or knowledge that people couldn't understand or described in ways that couldn't be understood by people of posterity either because of lack of references and/or necessary level of tech knowledge to decipher what the description is actually describing
Only today we are beginning to understand some of the "magical" stuff that were witnessed in the past
Many concepts we have about of magic and fantasy is the result of cargo cult-like phenomenons and with a more modern understanding of technology many of those things can actually be identified and solved
In some cases people take some description of mythological things too literally
Flying chariots weren't literal bronze age chariots flying
The "biblically accurate angels" are taken too literally and some engineers have tried to draw something based on those description resulting in ufo-like vehicles (which are very present in a lot, *a lot*, of ancient texts if put under scrutiny)
We have relatively recent examples of descriptors that aren't just literal, but descriptions of function or a comparison with most similar thing they knew: amerindians and the "iron horse" referring to trains, and all the names they had to come up to refer to the horse (mysterious dog, the big dog of the white man, the deer dog, ecc.)

Fun fact:
Even the magic wand imagery is not original fantasy; even today in some ufological cases people report that they were paralyzed by beings pointing a wand-like object to them

Anyway, how the modern depiction of "magic" came to be is irrelevant, even though fascinating
Magic is commonly a different thing in literature from classic technology
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>>91905136
>even today in some ufological cases people report that they were paralyzed by beings pointing a wand-like object to them
I always found this very funny in ufo talk.
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>>91886050
>it's this but not real
so, not that
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>>91905136
>>91905211
"Holy freaking crap, it's like that time I ran into an alien with a wand"
>>
I don’t care how weird the magic is, it’s still coming from SOMEWHERE, just like everything else.
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>>91894544
damn
given how the top dogs all seem to believe in occultism and how fucked up the world is, this is a scary thought
>>
>>91896003
My dude, a lot of functions in IRL quantum physics do look dick like.
>>
>>91909643
Show me one (1) physics phenomenon that looks like a dick and balls, that isn’t just a lone case.
>>
>>91891477
You don't even need to do that.
There's no reason to preserve the biosphere except for academic purposes. It's naturally toxic to human biology.
The Na'vi are perma-stoneage mongaloids, they cannot detect dangerous extra-terrestrial activities let alone stop them.
If humanity were serious about wiping the Na'vi out, and sensible enough to act from orbit rather than putting boots on ground, then it wouldn't even be a contest. Humanity would be fighting on a whole different dimension to their opponent, able to launch hostile actions against the Na'vi with total impunity.
For example.
>Humans choose several sufficiently large asteroids floating around nearby and nudge it onto a collision course with Pandora.
What are the Na'vi or their world spirit going to do about that except mald and cry uncontrollably?
When the planet has been converted to a barren, atmosphere-free rock, begin mining operations.
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>>91896727
No one even attempted to refute this. This general is in-majority populated by absolute dumbasses, wow.
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>>91885967
I really hate midwits that associate anything that ever was with the CURRENTTHING.
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>>91913737
Because it’s a retarded shifting of goalposts that can be countered by simply shifting the goalposts.
>magic is tech
>not if it’s not
>but tech is applied science
>then magic is not applied science
Try not being a fatheaded fag and people might give you a single shred of the respect you’re so obviously lacking
>>
>>91914374
lol
>>
>>91887258
evolution doesn’t “do” or “know” anything, you fucking imbecile, evolution is just units with beneficial mutations living longer and thus procreating more than units without those genes
hence how humans have 5 different evolutions to breaking the lactose intolerance gene on different continents, because drinking milk makes you stronger so you live longer and have more kids, there’s nothing intelligent about it, some guys on different continents mutated in 5 different ways that all did the same thing and let them fuck more
>>
>>91920540
>herp derp
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>>91920540
>evolution doesn’t “do” or “know” anything
That's what that post is getting across you speed reading dumbass
"Intelligent"
>>
>>91921465
>>91921459
>despite it somehow knowing
>it makes do
samefag harder, imbecile
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>>91921504
Ah, you're an illiterate. You can't into figures of speech. Poor, sad little fuck. Probably ESL.
>>
>samefagging pajeet calling me an esl
lol
lmao
>>
Actually, I'm a white Canadian who hates Muslims.
>>
>>91921568
He’s a lost cause, just look at how many times he’s been dunked on with shit he can’t answer, and yet he’s STILL seething about how gigabrained he is. Terminal pseud.
>>
>>91921595
>islamophobe to boot
>>
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>>91921605
>>91921615
Oh, I see, you're an anti-biology, anti-science leftist type lunatic, just like in the other thread.
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>>91921627
Keep telling yourself that, troon
>>
>>91921595
>white canadian
just type ubercuck next time, it’s shorter
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>>91885967
No.
Magic is science in a different coat of paint.
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>>91886783
Alderamin?
>>
>waah
>>
Science is the new sorcery, or heresy, lmfao

What a truly awful world we are in
>>
bump for cancer
>>
>>91893642
>Anon, unobtanium is literally required to save humanity from extinction.
This is fanon based on three-steps-removed reading of material from a book via a wiki. Unobtainium is used in the maglev system on Earth but they have photobioreactors and use spirulina as a primary foodstuff, there's no reason they need maglevs to get food to people's mouths. The RDA is just a megacorp using an artificial monopoly to jack up the price of an already-valuable good to the point that you can sort of handwave the tens of trillions of dollars worth of antimatter they burn every time they go from Sol to Alpha Centauri.
>>
>abloobloobloo
>>
>>91927851
unobtanium also isn't a motivation in avatar 2, by that point the elite has decided Earth is fucked and humanity (read: the RDA board of directors and their friends) needs to evacuate and colonize pandora, where they can destroy a new world while hopped up on whale immortality serum
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>>91885967
I would say yes, to the degree that every typical magic system has a degree of omnipresent, low level sentience to it. That's not to say that magic should be technological, but that there's something in these settings that interprets the will of these mortals who are drawing from and using magic power.
>>
OP is right and y’all are fags
>>
Everything in existence is science in some way, however big or small, cope.
>>
>>91928216
>>91896991
What did he mean by this
>>
>>91931300
>abloobloobloo
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>>91886783
Culture, their tech is magic but there is some stuff that Minds cannot fully grasp or care to fuck with. The shit they dont understand is also just a technologic skill diff, the entity either comes from another dimension or sublimed
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It’s all magic.
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If your magic consists of floating and rotating runes that circle your hands as you cast spells, etc, it is clearly artificial and artistically made to be that way. Who the hell built such a system? Are mages poking at an invisible mechanism? Seems to be the case. Like a gun that’s already been shaped. Nature doesn’t give a flying fuck about human notions of art. Runes and other artsy arcane hocus pocus symbols wouldn’t so conveniently turn up so consistently in nature for this to be the case. Coincidence can only go so far.

Aliens, AI, “the gods”, all work. Even just the human imagination is convenient enough for something to be called “magic”. It’s how religions start.
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>>91888359
>that goblin smile
you have shit taste.
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>>91936182
>OP Bumps his own thread after 6 hours of inactivity just to get the last word in
kek
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>>91937396
;^)
>>
Bumping so everyone can see OP get raked across the coals
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>>91885967
On the contrary, AI and technology is hidden magic.
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>>91939244
When ignorance becomes the norm, which it will, yes.
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>>91940120
Aha! Now I know how to restore the mysticism of magic in my games: by creating a custom magic system and hiding all the rules of it from my players!
>>
>>91940136
Sure, but I’m talking of real life, when the dumbasses of the world start forming cults around AI and occult infrastructure.
>>
>>91940221
Probably.



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