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You know, I was just wondering why Wild West settings in general never really seemed to take off. We have, what, Aces & Eights and Deadlands (i.e. the 'Shadowrun' version of the Wild West) and that's about it, right?
Is it because it's mostly an American thing?
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>>93293499
In general it's more due to the decline of Westerns as a major pop culture genre overall. During the genesis of D&D during the 70s Western settings and proto-campaigns were very popular - Arneson's group had the "Brownstone" setting and Avalon Hill published Boot Hill.

Adults in the 70s would have grown up on Western TV serials from the 60s, but this was already the twilight of the genre on TV. In the 70s-80s you had the growing economic strength of Japan and karate/samurai/martial arts films took the spot that Westerns used to occupy (hence the publication of TRPGs like Bushido, the Oriental Adventures supplement for D&D, etc.). TRPGs are a reflection of the pop culture around them (you can see this reflected in modern complaints that D&D feels too "capeshit"- that's only to be expected from the major film trends of the past while).
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>>93293894
I know that people say "FPBP" a lot, but this is a very strong FPBP.
There are western games out there, I've seen a few, some I cannot remember. There's Dogs in the Vineyard as the classic "nonfantastical western" game, but even that is from like 2008, which is, need I remind you, sixteen fucking years ago.

So yeah, largely dead as a pop culture genre. Things that riff on westerns exist, but even those are fading. Cowboy Bebop is old. The western JoJo part started in 2005, and the western elements largely ceased to matter after a few years.

The Western today largely exists as a bunch of props and tropes, hats and loners and the trope of a Masterless Wandering Fighter For Sale, but even then the media landscape has changed such that just copying those tropes usually has to come with a bunch of subversion.

You no longer get westerns, even when you get A Cowboy. The genre has largely been boiled down to "We put a man with a hat who hides from his past and shoots good into this otherwise nonwestern media".
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>>93293499
There's also GUN and I enjoyed gm'ing It for two sessions.
It really didn't catch on, even tho I made It a horror hunting game. For some reason, wild west fails to tug that special "sense of adventure and wonder" string in my players hearts and we played A LOT of different genres. Can't be guns cause we had a blast playing both Ops&Tactics and Tokyo Nova and even Princess Wing and Nechronica If you wanna count that as shootan games and everyone loved that shit
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>>93293499
Part of it is that the western genre has become a bit politically risky over the past few decades. It is no longer a time of adventure and has become a time period that it is politically correct to be ashamed of.
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>>93294042
The 70s and 80s?
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>>93294009
>>93294042
Westerns films and other media are still being made - it's not that they've disappeared, rather, they've become less pop culture and more high culture/auteur type of experiences - look at something like Killers of the Flower Moon. The genre is still alive, it's just lost the mass market orientation and weight that it used to have. It's in the same state as sword-and-sandal historicals or cyberpunk or Victorian period dramas - strong niches with very clear genre boundaries, but only cared about within a narrow slice of niche enthusiasts. Maybe a surprise hit might bring them back into the pop culture limelight, but currently they don't have the mass push that make them into the first setting that people reach for.
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>>93293499
There is almost by definition nothing there. Its also only a part of american mythology, 90% of the world doesnt care
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>>93294058
In the 70s and 80s Wild West setting were pretty common. They started declining heavily in the 90s and 00s getting replace by post-apocalypse pseudo-westerns which lack a lot of baggage the more historical western settings do.

>>93294089
>look at something like Killers of the Flower Moon.
Which supports my point about it being political correct to be ashamed of the time period rather than considering it a time of adventure and heroics.

>>93294138
Europeans loved the setting for long enough that the sub-genre "Spaghetti Western" formed. Japanese regularly copy the style for their pseudo-western stuff. Cowboys and gunslingers are popular archetypes the world over. It is a semi-popular setting over shadowed by it's current baggage.
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Because westerns don't go over well with the average ttrpg consumer if it's not also loaded with magic or monsters. Trust me I've tried.
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>>93293894
Literally just that. Westerns were crazy popular even outside of US, so "muh americans" isn't a reason for genre's decline.
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>>93294042
Yeah, even Deadlands had to remove the Confederacy for fear of being cancelled.
Like, the WHOLE Confederacy, it was retarded.
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>>93294723
The whole point of the western is the Civil War was over and all the cavalry needed to do something with their skills.
Two, the Confederacy was cringe. Artificially prolonging the ACW so not having to think about why the US can’t interfere with the metaplot is stupid and gave us just two bad Deadlands books, the Back East pair.
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>>93293499
guns are antithetical to heroic fantasy
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>>93293894
>the genesis of D&D during the 70s Western settings and proto-campaigns were very popular
entire article on the subject
>https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2024/02/04/gunfighting-part-one/
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>>93294089
I've noticed "modern westerns" trying to be a kind of spiritual sequel to the more classic wild west setting. No Country for Old Men, Wind River, Hell or High Water. Yellowstone. Outer Range (this one's fucking weird though). Usually the typical elements like gunslingers are still there, just reskinned as either hitmen or GWOT veterans for example.
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>>93293499
We play a "weird west" type campaign with my friend as the gm, we're using dark heresy 2nd ed with a custom weapon/equipment list to make it fit. It's very fun. (Weird west - with some lovecraftian elements based on native american and eastern european folklore)

Not an answer to your question but there are a lot of us who still find that type of setting inspiring.
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>>93297457
Outer Range was fucking great and I'm pissed it's canceled now
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>>93297652
Might've been too bizarre for most, unfortunately.
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I wouldn't touch anything trying to be subversive (inb4 some sperg pretending they don't know what that means) about the setting and the only thing that actually looks like it's meant to be played and not circlejerked at from a distance is Aces & Eights.
Even then you have to really work it to give the players some semblance of what they "ought" to be doing, it's not as self-driving as something like old school D&D is where goal = xp which is what I think sunk Boot Hill.
At a minimum i'd throw in lost treasure(s), hostile warrior/mercenary/friendly indians, robber gangs, local sheriffs, railroad expansion, business tycoons etc etc to have something to do from the get-go, an assumed goal of wanting to get rich and something to do once they do alternatively retire characters and get rich again.
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>>93294042

That seems a bit of a weak argument given that revisionist westerns have been a thing since the 60s and 70s.

Westerns are highly malleable when it comes to politics. Just look at the success of something like Django Unchained in more modern times.

It is, as the first post says, more that as a whole Westerns aren't particularly popular. But Westerns might be more popular than studios warrant - Western themes keep popping up in video, TV and such.
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>>93298034
>That seems a bit of a weak argument given that revisionist westerns have been a thing since the 60s and 70s.
Not really considering the latest big western Horizon is shunned by the usual suspects for the usual reasons.
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>>93298034
>Just look at the success of something like Django Unchained in more modern times.
Glorifies blacks while vilifying white men. Imagine my shock.
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>>93298082

All I've heard of Horizon is that it's dull.

>>93298094
Yeah, but its proof that there's nothing stopping westerns. They can adapt perfectly well. Its just that other genres overtook them in popularity. You'd really struggle to get a Western to have mass impact today unless it was like, the adaptation of Red Dead Redemption.
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>>93297946
Agreed. "Subversion" just means "disdain for the genre" any more. It's trite at best and disrespectful at worst.
I think the American West is ripe for games. It was a time of high adventure and you can run it from anywhere between the 17th and early 20th century. Lost artifacts, ancient civilizations, unknown beasts, unclaimed treasure, hostile armies, all the pieces are there. You could lean into more fantastical things like magic if you want but even that's not necessary. If you do, you have a ton of different flavors to choose from. You could go with Voodoo cultists in the deep south, Palo Mayombe from Cuban diaspora, esoteric Christianity from deeply isolated White communities, Shamanic magic from Indians. All, some or none, you have quite a bit to pull from.
I think a great example is the film Bone Tomahawk. At its core, it's a Robert E. Howard story. Degenerate, evil beastmen have slaughtered your townsfolk and carried off several women. You must gather your posse; the razor sharp veteran, the aging sheriff and his bungling but good-natured lackey, the civilized Indian and you, the rancher who must set out despite your grievous injury to save your wife and the settlement itself. Along the way, you will encounter things you can't comprehend, face fearsome enemies and eventually attack a stronghold full of horrors. It's absolutely fantastic. I really wish more games were written for this sort of adventure.
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>>93298147
Good post. I will say Bone Tomahawk did have its share of light subversion still. The razor sharp veteran was totally ineffective, the crippled rancher ended up the most talented killer of them all. Actual injuns had practically zero role in any of it, as the cavemen were explicitly not injun. Kino movie though.
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>>93298199
I'd say that's a fair assessment, though I don't think it was egregious. Doesn't the veteran at least kill a few of the troglodytes during his last stand? It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I think I remember that being the case.
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>>93298199
No the cavemen were natives, just ones who were the equivalent of hillbilly horror. Inbred degenerates who were forced into hiding in the wastes.
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>>93298238
He's maimed early by surprise, sets himself up for an epic last stand to buy time for the others. Only kills one before he goes down. Still an interesting character, you could also make the argument he was targeted first for a reason. The cavemen have some level of cunning.
>>93298243
I guess that was just the local injun tracker man's cope then. He was kind of a dick IIRC. Says his people aren't responsible so stop being racist, but only native warriors like him could handle the rapebeasts anyway, white man would die right away etc. then proceeds to do nothing.
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>>93298243
>>93298343
Yeah that's true. The Indian's response is basically "nuh uh" when they call the troglodytes Indians. It's pretty good.
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>>93298343
I always find the cope over indians to be extremely funny as a non-american. Even the famous ones from the cheyennes were not exactly shy in their biographies about scalping white children and those were generally the less nasty ones who did tit-for-tat over potential enemy soldiers and weren't the type to go out of their way to torture toddlers for fun like the commanches or pretended to be friendly in order to massacre undefended civilians like the powhatans.
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maybe if someone would eventually translate Terra the Gunslinger, but eh, one can hope.
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>>93294089
>Killers of the Flower Moon
Watched it recently, it starts alright but then turns into a blatant piece of propaganda glorifying feds as some deus-ex-machina that can swoop in and right all wrongs.
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>>93298594
tbf in history wasn't that entirely the reason the FBI or US Marshals were created in the place
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>>93298503
Yeah, in case you missed it, Japan loves westerns. The samurai-western film two-way pipeline is extensively documented.
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>>93298923
and the same dang setting (planet) as in Tenra Bansho Zero, too.
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>>93298999
Is it? I never heard that one.
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>>93293499
Outlaw for Rolemaster was kino & got plenty of play in the local circuit. Just depends on where you lived and when zoomzoom.
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>>93298094
>glorifies blacks while vilifying white men
One of the most evil guys in the movie is a black guy and one of the unquestionable heroes of the movie is a white guy. Get of your American culture war bullshit.
>>93298034
Western themes aren't inherently locked to the setting itself. A lot of later westerns just cribbed directly from Japanese chanbara movies, the Soviet Union had their own western like stories set in Eastern Russia.
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>>93298147
Subversion only means disdain for the genre if the writers disdain the genre. There is nothing wrong with subversion, some of the best stories in fiction are subversion of their own genres but in order to actually be able to successfully be subversive you need to actually love the genre you're riffing on. Good subversion is being able to play with the expectations of the tropes of the genre in a satisfying way while still telling a good story but in order to do that you need to know the rules so you can break them.
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>>93293499
>>93293894
So what I'm getting from this thread is that western-themed TTRPGs aren't popping off as hard mostly because westerns as a whole aren't as popular as they used to be. They're still there but are now considered a niche topic and not as in the mainstream.

That said, what would you consider the core tenets or pillars of a stereotypical western/Wild West setting or campaign?
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>>93299090
There hasn't been a good subversion of anything made since the 60s.
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>>93299564
>blocks your path
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>>93299090
>>93298147 (me)
Oh for sure, I agree. Good fiction can definitely come from subversion of expectations. I think many of us are just jaded by a lot of the modern examples of genre subversion (The Boys, modern Star Wars and what have you). There's nothing wrong with going against expectations, and there's a lot you can do with it if you handle it properly.
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>>93293499
fpbp, spsbp and also euros dont care and never will (besides italians in the 60s and early 70s for some reason) cutting a large part of most rpg's potential playerbase.
cultural colonies of the us like japan actually loved them but they are also in decline there and they also play their own games almost exclusively.

My personal opinion as a euro is that playing a white trash redneck in the middle of bumfuck nowhere in some frontier region feels like the most unappealing thing ever.
Oversaturation of american media has probably also has caused a knee jerk reaction against things that feel way too american, i think, but i personally always had a deep and unexplained hatred for westerns that is not entirely uncommon in the groups of nerds i have interacted with
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>>93300135

This is weird considering that Germans and even Russians both had points where they really loved Westerns.

And that the Western time period is basically prime territory for playing European characters coming over to have adventures.

Like, even the Nazis made Westerns about Germans going about in the West.

Like, basically every European country has some connection to the West, and this seems to be a problem with your own imagination than the genre.
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>>93299938

It's especially weird in the context of Westerns, because a ton of the best Westerns were absolutely intended to be on some level subversive of the first generation.

In fact, with "The Dollars Trilogy", "The Wild Bunch" etc., I'd argue the subversions and evolutions are in a way more iconic than many of the originals.

I think part of the appeal of the Western is that its so broad that you can adapt it to so many messages, themes, moods and genres.

Meanwhile Star Wars falls absolutely flat on its face as a subversion because it was very much the product of one man. You could possibly try to work backwards to untangle his influences and go from there, but no one working on Star Wars currently is nearly genre savvy enough to do that, and it would be meaningless to their audience anyways.

Superheroes I'd argue are closer to Westerns in that they have a wide scope. Shitty subversions like the Boys comic are so shitty because they pretend that the genre is smaller than it is. Plus all the Boys comic could think of was "What if good guys... bad?" Even if you're just looking for an edgy send-up of superheroes, why not just read like, the first story of Marshall Law where there's some context given?
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>>93300292
>I'd argue the subversions and evolutions are in a way more iconic than many of the originals.
Mostly because fags never watched the originals and only ever knew the subversions.
Which is why you get trite tertiary modern shit that feels like a bad riff on blood meridian.
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>>93300201
germans are the second largest european ethnicity in the us so it isnt so weird, especially considering the nazis were all chammy with the us a few years before the war (and a large part of the us held similar ideas, like eugenics), along with the propaganda reinforcement of the whites being the good guys and the mexicans/indians the bad guys.

In general i think that the wild west was much more culturally prevalent through books/circuses and generally the media of the time being the main piece of culture the us exported over to the old world but from what i understand in europe it was mostly viewed in the skewed way orientalism was and not a true appreciation of them.
Just a set of tropes largely divorced from reality.

Also most european countries had fuck all to do with the west with almost all of the colonisers and later immigrants coming from a few large european countries that got it really rough at one point or another (ireland, italy, poland, germany and maybe swedish)

Also claiming that because your country had at some dark point in it's history a wave of immigrants to the us that were unanimously treated like shit, hated and nobody wanted them there, making you wish to explore the wild west feels very disconnected from reality.

I could understand this pov fro the british and the germans though.

I also dont think that there is a problem with my imagination.
It is simply put, the most mudcore setting imaginable much worse than most if not all of the european middle ages despite the memes and fucking GOT, that also feels the most mundane.
The most you can get is local folklore, for a weird west game besides something straight up historical unless you go full marvel and slap down some magic, superheroes or whatever down there.
I just prefer most fantastical games and so do most people.
It still doesnt justify the knee jerk reaction i get but i have some pretty good reasons why i dont like it and i feel like they arent too rare either
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>>93293499 you have great taste in comics!
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>>93300292
I think you raise an interesting point. As westerns evolved, the characters and themes evolved with them, but never to the point where they seemed to disrespect the genre as a whole. I'd agree that my favorite films in the genre are a far departure from "John Wayne wears a white hat and shoots the bad guys in the black hats" (not to be dismissive of the originals, just making a point is all), and that is by definition a subversion of the genre as previous tropes were eschewed in favor of things like antiheroes and moral grey areas. It almost feels that the entire concept of genre subversion has been subverted at this point, if you take my meaning, with the things we mentioned previously. "What if Superman raped people in his spare time" is a far cry from "superheroes are people too, let's explore that", and the same can be said about any other genre that has been pushed too far.
>>93300418
I see where you're coming from, and I really do enjoy a lot of the classic western stories. Gunsmoke is a great show, for instance.
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>>93300482
>but never to the point where they seemed to disrespect the genre as a whole
I should clarify that I mean "by the time of the movies you referenced" with this statement.
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>>93299285
i think the main thing is the sense of isolation, the frontier being still mostly outside the reach of the large organized structures of society for good and for ill, but that's kinda also just been absorbed into tabletop stories at large, with adventurers and orcs/goblins/whatever instead of drifting men with no name and bandits and so on
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>>93300839
No, you're right. A core conceit behind what allowed the Wild West to function the way it did was that the government and all the power and technology was stuck out east and took time to make its way out west. If you claimed to be a government authority but weren't hooked up to the network as it were, you were an authority in name only and ultimately had to make and show your own strength. There's so many stories about vigilantes and towns looking after themselves and making the best of rough and isolated situations because in many cases, you have no one to truly rely on but yourself and those around you. The Wild West was a tough place, and it made for tough men and women.
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>>93300292
>Plus all the Boys comic could think of was "What if good guys... bad?"
Also "..What the fuck were you niggers thinking of with Identity Crisis?"
Ennis really hated Identity Crisis. Tons of writers hated it.
I think it was one of the most Despised-by-Creators book since Avengers #200.
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>>93300439
>Westerns are mudcore
Y'know, yeah, I can see where that notion comes from. It's just not commonly thought of explicitly as such because it's such a major component of (what passes for) American mythos. Pushing the idea that some of these places were shitholes really helps sell the notion of persevering through adversity, especially in the process of conquering the continent.
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>>93299067
>One of the most evil guys in the movie is a black guy
Only because he's an uncle Tom that likes whites. Funny, isn't it?
>and one of the unquestionable heroes of the movie is a white guy.
Not white. A jew. You're bad at this. Or are jews white now? Oh, wait, they're Schrodinger's whites.
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>>93301145
Yeah, i think this is part of the problem. It is such a core part of the american identity that americans themselves can't see why it would feel foreign and unappealing to foreigners. It is a product of a time and a place now mostly gone and just like all things that are cultural niches they will eventually fade out of pop cultural relevance
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>>93299013
Yeah, it's on the same planet. it's also one of the few JTRPGs that was officially localized... ...somewhat.
game plays like Kabuki theatre using a D10 roll-under Dice Pool.

Compare that to Terra which uses Playing Cards as it's method of play.

But later on F.E.A.R. decided to combine both settings and make "Tenra War" which uses the cards in a different way, but keeps TBZ's dice mechanics.

That and the settings are damned nuts. With samurai who have magic stones implanted into them that makes them look demonic when they fire off, also child mech riders who try to keep their purities in order to operate the mechs more, also the various casters and the like, along with the indigenous Oni tribes... ...honestly, not much either for Terra other then it's hyper western (think Trigun with actual magic, Outlaw Star, but on a single planet)

You can find the raws of Terra on one of the JTRPG troves, at least.
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>>93301467 (cont)
One gimmick for the three games is the fact you can mix and match archetypes.
Want to be a spell-slinging gunslinger? Go ahead.
Want to play a kid who's secretly an undead immortal? Sure!
Want to play a bandit who has undergone the same treatment as Tenra's Samurais and is ready to hulk out on command? It's all yours.

Also another thing to point out that it's not characters that gain XP and the like, it's the players who do. Getting Chits for good roleplaying and the like. Along with that, just don't get TOO too attached to your characters. The game is designed primarily for one-shots (as most JTRPGs are). So Characters will eventually meet their maker, one way or another.
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>>93301671
>Want to play a kid who's secretly an undead immortal? Sure!
Nechronica crossover?
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>>93301858
Not exactly.
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>>93301892
Cute...
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>>93297621
I have considered doing the exact same thing for 1e. Any real hiccups arise, or was an equipment tone down enough for you?
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I enjoy running them. I tend to do Weird Western settings where I stick as closely as I can with real history until the spooks come out. My favorite one was a Jiangshi uprising created by disgruntled Chinese workers in Las Vegas, New Mexico where the players had to team up the Dodge City Gang (the leader of which was Hoodoo Brown, a familiar name if you played Gun back in the day) to put them down. It was fun. At one point, the players and Mysterious Dave Mather had to blow up the bridge in the pic to stem the undead tide.
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>>93293499
The Western kinda died by the 80s
Many ttrpg players are basically red-diaper babies who will screech about colonialism, or orient the campaign to an exaggerated Revisionist Western that makes Little Big Man look like The Searchers
Card mechanics kinda suck
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>>93293499
I play Dogs in the Vineyard and it's fun.
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>>93293499
>mostly an American thing
It's mostly a French and Japanese thing now.
And I'm playing in a game of it right now.
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>>93302687
I like the escalation system. My friends made fun of me once because I don't know anything about mormons and couldn't clock how extremely and openly mormon it is. "Oh this tree thing is a fun pseudo-druidic mythology for a magical cowboys game!"
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>>93303102
I hardly ever use the book setting.
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>>93300966
>the government and all the power and technology was stuck out east and took time to make its way out west.
That's important in picrel. While the Metis are getting setup, the NWMP need time to get there by rail, THEN they need to hike it up to where the Metis are. Meanwhile, there are lone forts that can be ruined in the meantime.
Even though it was in Canada, it technically fits the bill, I think.
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>>93299285
Like >>93300839 and >>93300966
note, there's actually quite a bit of Western DNA in D&D.
Keep in mind Arneson and Gygax were both playing Westerns, grew up with Westerns, and that Western influence is very much felt and was very much an equivalency during the 70s - virtuous wandering no-name cowboy translates quite cleanly to virtuous wandering questing knight. You can trace this in the pulp fantasy authors that inspired them too - Robert Howard, author of Conan, was an oilman working out in "the frontier". Note Gygax's classic starter module is B2: Keep on the Borderlands, and he later remixes this during AD&D into Village of Hommlet. The abandoned bandit hideout in the mine and the buried Spanish gold just get appropriately reskinned with a fantasy veneer (into a series of beastman caves or a bandit-infested moathouse).
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Speaking of westerns, give me character ideas for a Deadlands campaign set in New Orleans. Everyone starts summoned to the city by a strange letter, so anything goes
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>>93301304
>Only because he's an uncle Tom that likes whites. Funny, isn't it?
Stephen is a bad guy because he helps perpetuating a system where he is put in a position of power that he uses to abuse the other slaves at the farm. His character is explicitly a sadistic schemer.
>Not white. A jew. You're bad at this. Or are jews white now? Oh, wait, they're Schrodinger's whites.
Schultz is not Jewish, there is nothing in the movie to imply that he is Jewish and Christoph Waltz himself is Jewish. Yes, ashkenazi Jews are white (there are several different Jewish ethnic groups including Ethiopian (black) jews, not just ashkenazi). You are suffering from American brainrot sir.
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>>93293499
Boomers aren’t modern gamers. Modern gamers don’t care for cowboys that much.
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Christoph Waltz isn't jewish, fuck misspellings.
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>>93304667
The child or grandchild of a resident sugar plantation owner, who themselves may be a veteran of a recent conflict and is considered a major power broker in the city of New Orleans.

Any manner of swamp rat, be they a hunter by trade or just someone living out in more remote country.

The obligatory vodou priest(ess), a transplant from Haiti.
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>>93304667
I've never played Deadlands, though if it's thematically similar to stuff like Hunt and Darkwatch then I think I may get the vibe.
-Law enforcement is in over there heads dealing with a rash of ritualistic killings. It started with grave robbing and animal mutilations, then escalated to child abductions and publicly dumped bodies reminiscent of Jack the Ripper. Most recently, a wagon carrying family of the local leadership has gone missing near the swamp. They need your help finding out what's happened.
-The Chinese are panicking; they're convinced that something dark is coming, and that nobody will survive.
-A local musician has recently become incredibly popular, and along with that rumors have begun to spread about his newfound prowess. His diehard fans have become absolutely unhinged and have begun committing violent crimes to gain his favor.
-A gator larger than anything ever seen before has eaten several people, but seems to disappear without a trace before a posse can arrive.
-The letter is a playbill for a performance of "The King in Yellow".
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>>93293499
Semi-related I think it is one of the biggest fumbles in miniature gaming how Malifaux has itself set up for a perfect "your dudes" weird west setting but then solely focuses on names characters with cardboard standee level of personalities while their miniatures have a minimal level of customization across the entire range.

A Chinese martial arts master who recruits a gunslinger, a disgraced ronin, a Native American demi-god and some undead prostitutes as a posse is a story in it of itself as a crew rather than "this is the explicit lore for every single master, henchman and enforcer."
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>>93308520
Good idea, but alas I'm not GM, I'm the player and he has his campaign ready.
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>>93310642
Oh, so you want a PC idea for your Cajun Deadlands campaign, then?
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>>93311239
No, I only know that it's set in New Orleans and I'm not limited in character origins. Cajuns are fine too, I think.
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>>93304667
>Yankee who's never been in the South before
>Bayou backwoodsman who can only speak a few words of English but is fluent in French (he can understand English just fine)
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>>93294009
>which is, need I remind you, sixteen fucking years ago.
How dare you.
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>>93301671
>Along with that, just don't get TOO too attached to your characters. The game is designed primarily for one-shots
As the only one I'm somewhat familiar with, I'd argue that TBZ can work longer term when you consistently raise Fates to their highest possible level before rewriting/sublimating them. That doesn't mean you make it a farce, or your characters flop and bounce their way through new goals, alliances, rivalries, secrets, misfortunes, taboos, etc without reason. But it can be a bit more soap opera-ish or episodic than usual. I think that can be a good thing.
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>>93313774
>for whom the bell tolls
>time maches on

Run that game you've been thinking of.
Put together that system for the niche thing you like.
In five years, ten years, it will be more niche.
Now is the time to get a group for the thing you wanna run, or bug your GM to run for you.
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>>93315348
Assuming a lot there, kiddo.
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>>93294089
Post apocalypse has largely supplanted the western since it has the same tropes of lone wanderers, self reliant small towns, and sinister gang leaders without the baggage of racism and colonialism.
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I wanna play Aces and Eights but I doubt I'll ever get the chance.
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>>93298472
Part of the controversy over Horizon is the plot involves the Indians plotting and executing a massacre.

Comanche itself means enemy in the language of another tribe.
>>
>>93315708
I thought the issue with Horizon was it was plodding and boring. Clearly meant to be act 1 of a series that could have been 1 movie.
>>
>>93299564
Gridman.SSSS subverts the "edgy psychological reboot" genre by having the whole thing turn out to be an amnesia monster of the week episode of the original series and having the primary villain turn out to be the victim he's trying to save.
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>>93311611
Classic or Savage Worlds?
How about a British "noble" who hopped a ship to the Americas to escape gambling debts? May or may not be a huckster.
Former homesteader turned gunslinger looking for a runaway family member.
If it's Classic and you want to be overpowered you could always play an itinerant preacher.
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>>93293499
Because western has become a multiplier.
Normal western? 0 times 0 is still pretty much 0.
Space Western? Instantly better than plain space or western.
Weird West? Again better than both components.
There are exceptions to this but like all exceptions they are not the norm.
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>>93304667
Well I was going to suggest that if you were looking for place to steal ideas, the Hunt: Showdown trailers would be a good place to start, but it seems your already ahead of me there.
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>>93317225
To be fair, 99% of them suck
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>>93316384
Classic, the one where Civil War didn't end.
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>>93294009
>Dogs in the Vineyard

Didn't someone edit and update it as DOGS? Does anyone have a PDF of that?
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>>93322950
Bump.
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>>93322950
I made a ditv conversion for star wars that an anon said he liked better than DOGS, so take this as you will.
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>>93327234
Thanks for sharing! I wish I understood what all of this meant. I need to (re)read DitV, I guess. What makes this better than DOGS?
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>>93328075
>What makes this better than DOGS?
I guess he liked that it was only a few pages.

I made some template characters that might make things clearer. Essentially you're playing a game of one-upping the GM, where you start by rolling the dice for two specific stats (based on what type of conflict you're having) and then use the results from this roll as a pool of numbers you can put forth two at a time. The GM has his own pool based on things like lots of bad guys with guns surrounding you, dangerous quicksand, or hostile animals that he uses to oppose you.

Each round, you can bring in up to two new stats/traits/etc. and roll those dice to add to your pool. You can only roll each of these once per conflict so your pool is ultimately limited by the total number of dice on your character sheet.

It has an interesting progression mechanic, where you gain XP from failing and getting injured that you can later use to increase your stats and traits, improve your equipment, gain new equipment, etc.
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>>93328391
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>>93328391
>>93328443
I love this, and respectfully request you post everything you have for me to pick over like a starving buzzard.
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>>93328521
That's about the whole thing. The blank character cards in the back of >>93327234
are formatted so you can print out the last two pages as a single double-sided page and cut it horizontally to have a pair of blank character cards with the chargen rules on the reverse sides.

Here is a PDF version of the templates.
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>>93294138
>90% of the world doesnt care
I mean this very sincerely and unironically.
If you aren't American you aren't human.
You are nothing more than cattle generating wealth for America.
I assume you are some form of Europoor. Your culture and genetics will cease to exist within 30 years, replaced by Arabs and pajeets.
The opinions and tastes of non-Americans literally does not matter. You have zero cultural or financial relevancy.
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>>93328391
Quick example:

>GM says PC is surrounded by bad guys with guns
>GM's opening raise for the bad guys is 8 as they start blasting
>PC puts up a 4 and a 4, which means he was able to See, therefore managing to avoid taking damage
>PC Raises by using a 5 and a 4 (total of 9) and describes knocking over a water trough as he tries to run away
>GM has to use a 3, a 3, and a 4 to See the PC's Raise
>PC starts to escape
>GM introduces hidden bad guy in a hotel window with a rifle and Raises with 5 and 6 (total of 11)
>PC has to use a pair of 2s, a 3, a 4 to See. Because PC has to use more than two dice to See, he accumulates 4 dice worth of Fallout (one die of Fallout per die used to See). Because PC is in a gun-based conflict, the fallout dice will be d10s.

The conflict continues until one side yields or runs out of dice. At the end of the conflict, the PC rolls 4d10 for the accumulated Fallout (along with any other Fallout dice) and is injured or otherwise changed based on the fallout table. If a pair of 10s is rolled, this becomes a death scene for that character.
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>>93293499
Fuck man I love Aces and Eights. It's like Ars Magica but with guns instead of magic.
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>>93293499
Plenty of westerns were produced in germany or russia.

I think the issue is that the western appeals to an older culture. Part of that is how most westerns were honestly white oriented. I dont think it means that the genre is inherently racist- just that when you tackle the real moral complexity of the era it loses its appeal- of the lone gunslinger bringing order.

I think people have then displaced the themes of the western to fantasy and scifi genres that allow more creative freedom.
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>>93315696
>I wanna play Aces and Eights but I doubt I'll ever get the chance.
Same, I can't even find a Runequest game so my hope for Aces and Eights is nothing.
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>>93293894
Somewhat this - I think due to the Winnetou Books Movies it was influenced a bit different here in germany, but it largely follows the same trend.
>>93293499
>>93329966
Funnily enough - group has been playing a little Homebrew Western Game at the moment. In essence, it’s a very loose Western scenario, not specifically focused on any particular time period, more just the mythical Wild West, based on a mix between the Rules of How to be Hero and some Movement and Cover Rules taken from Dark Heresy. Accordingly, our characters have certain abilities, but they’re more low-key. Essentially, we were allowed to choose three abilities for the characters that they can activate, and these abilities embody basicly the power of filmclichés. The characters are like legends of the West, so they don’t throw fireballs, but rather have abilities like the Japanese immigrant with his katana actually being able to slice bullets.

My character, Jonathan Ezziah, a former pastor who now works as a somewhat ruthless bounty hunter, for example has an ability called ‘Blessed with the Midnight Dew.’ It’s defined such that when someone hits him, I activate it, and almost like the film cliché his Bible stops the bullet and so on.
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>>93293499
>everyone has a gun
>everyone is a murderhobo looking for easy money
>hot, dangerous women in skimpy clothes
>you start at a saloon, find a job and some friends over a fight and some whisky
It's just too meta for me.



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