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Do not reply to bait or shitposts. Report and ignore.

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Use this table.
>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3, Make a dungeon special
>4 Make a wilderness location
>5. Make an urban set piece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8, Make a 4-10 room lair.
>9. Make a trap
>10. Roll 2D10 and combine.

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>What the fuck's an OSR?
>How do I get started?
You could do worse than read this guide.

I shouldn't do it. But I'm already planning out my next campaign before the players have hit lvl 4.

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>>93917383
>next campaign
WotCfag / Hickmanfag alert.

Just create a world and let everything happen in it. Allow players to run multiple characters. There should be no detectable beginning or end to scare-quote-campaigns.

>>93917408
Well I'm running dolmenwood at the moment and while it's genuinely great I have a hard time actually running it for more than another year or so.

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>>93917357
Wilderness location.
A set of three small stone altars aligned in a small clearing in the woods. Each altar has a different sigil carved into it, with a square stone beneath each, on top of which rests a wicker bowl. Inside each bowl are three distinct items. The stone altars look like large rocks buried into the ground in a makeshift way, no higher than a man’s knees when standing.

Altar 1: Sigil is a circle with a straight line from top to bottom, inside the wicker bowl is a pile of belladonna.

Altar 2: The sigil is a triangle with a small circle in the middle. Inside the bowl is a gathering of wolfsbane.

Altar 3: A crescent moon is the shape of the sigil on this altar. Inside the bowl is a still-beating heart.

>>93917482
Well fuck, you do have a point then. Is it already getting too samey? How do the players like it?

This surely a noob question, but, are there any games with more or different spells than the classic, but are still vancian? I am reading Lotfp and im greatly surprised with many additions on the spell list, with the intriguing addition of removing fireball and lightning bolt

>>93917482
>>93917488
Dolmenfags detected, vacate the thread please

>>93917661
You could always look at some of the spells from the early Final Fantasy games, those used a Vancian style of magic too.

>>93917488
Not in the slightest. Players love it as far as I can tell. The books does a great job of really feeling like the world exists and you just need to roll up a character to explore it. As an example all the cleric spells have their spell name and also an in world name for the prayer and a history behind it.
It's masterful.
Anyway I'm the anon using DW to run B2 and I and they are still fucking around in the caves of chaos so i unfortunately haven't actually run any of the setting yet but am excited to get stuck into that.
I've told the players that anytime they want we can move over to dolmenwood proper but both they and I are still enjoying it. (They've just cleared out the gnolls). So it's no rush.
After typing this all out I'm sure I'll be running it for a long long time
Which is why I feel bad planning my own setting even while loving the current one.

>>93917665
I will crush your balls with millstone

>>93917714
Did you consider placing B2 on the border between Dolmenwood and your own setting and letting players move between them?

>>93917758
Setting I'm planning is on a much wider scale than Dolmenwood wood and largely incompatible themes.

>>93917484
>>93917357
Spell.

Is this kind of busted? I thought it was funny.

"Life Gives Lemons
Transforms any object smaller than 4x4 into an ordinary lemon. The object changes back into its original form after 1d6 turns + level of the Magic-User.
Does not work on objects of an enchanted, conjured, or otherwise magical nature."

>>93917661
>the intriguing addition of removing fireball and lightning bolt
Raggi hates Magic-Users. The removal of many of their staple spells creates the urgency for them to engage in (frontline) combat where they are going to get maimed (his fetish) and captured for subsequent violation (also his fetish).

>>93917849
>smaller than 4x4
huh?

>Is this kind of busted?
Depends on the level, range, and whether you allow a saving throw and against what.

>>93918059
4 ft high by 4ft wide.
I'm thinking it should be smaller though.

Not sure how to balance around level.

>>93917849
>>93918059
smaller than 16 lemons?

>>93917345
Outdated game

>>93918340
Elaborate.

>>93918440
No

What's your system for dungeon restocking?
How quickly do you put monsters back in those rooms? Overnight, after week, after a month?

>>93918736
>What's your system for dungeon restocking?
I send a friend a message and ask him.

>>93917254
>Anything good out there that's not from the 1980's? Something less well known and a with a less standard fantasy vibe? I'm worried the moment my players see goblins they'll revert to their 5E ways and stop being interesting.
I ran Through Ultan's Door, its got megadungeon potential and a well designed weirdness to it.
Gardens of Ynn is also good.
Tomb Robbers on the Crystal Frontier would be another new, good, non-goblin standard module and if you're still in the B2-4 range should be level appropriate.
Curse of Craigbridge is quite good and has solid setup for a large dungeon, campaign antagonists, etc. the large dragon like monster might need some adjustment, I went with a more faction like dragon but ymmv.
The Isle is more towards slow burner large scale dungeon exploration, or at least starts like a bit of a monk murder mystery but gets into the dungeon decently fast.
Haven't run it but heard good things about:
Evils of Ilmire.
What Ho Frog Demons.
Altered Reflections.
The Honest and Plain Village of Scio.
Date of Expiration.
Fever Dreaming Marlinko.

>>93917714
>B2
>dolmenwood
>gnolls
Did you at least replace some of the humanoids with goatmen?

>>93918094
That is kind of busted yes. You're measuring oddly, it would be 4'x4'x4' if you exist in at least 3 dimensions. That size is a lot of large things to turn into a lemon. Unless its suppose to be a high level spell, its pretty busted.
If you want it to be less powerful you could require the magic user to concentrate on sour thoughts while lemoning or make the object size much smaller.

>>93918884
Seconding Through Ultan's Door, the zines are great and also beautiful. >>93917254 could also check out Melan's Echoes from Fomalhaut zines, which have much more of a CAS/Leiber vibe and don't contain many goblins. Well, the Erillion issues are fairly standard fantasy, I guess, but there's still a lot of useful material there.

>>93918930
>require the magic user to concentrate on sour thoughts
That's really amusing, I'll go with that. And as I said earlier, the size being smaller makes sense.
Cheers.

>>93918736
Really depends on the dungeon, monsters and other local factions then mixed in with whatever the players are up to in the area.
But generally I evaluate the number of casualties and effects it could have on groups or if a local apex predator has been removed, who or what would try to fill that space and if there are other local active groups in the dungeon area that could also be involved. I do macro scale faction and world turns on a roughly weekly basis for things on the 10x10 map so there's usually something in that time frame. World doesn't stand still.

>>93918937
>Melan
Oh fuck, good call I forgot those. Haven't run The Well of Frogs but its suppose to be quite good as well.

>>93918930
Life Gives Lemons

Transforms any object equal to or smaller than 2’x2’x2’ into an ordinary lemon.
The Magic-User must concentrate on “sour thoughts” for the duration of the spell, and thus cannot be interrupted (for example: by taking damage) or cast any other spells for the time-being.
The object changes back into its original form after 1d6 turns + level of the Magic-User or if the illusion is dispelled, willingly or otherwise.
Does not work on objects of an enchanted, conjured, or otherwise magical nature. Furthermore, the lemon cannot be significantly damaged, divided, or eaten, or else the item will for all intents and purposes remain a lemon.


Anything else?

>>93919044
Oh, I guess material components should be a lemon?

Mothership: Warden's Operation Manual

not in the Mothership archive

>>93919044
Seems good, usable and fun but not too obviously OP. If you're doing spell components, dried lemon rinds or seeds could work and feel alchemical.

>>93919082
Another nice addition from anon. I'll be sure to credit you in my homebrew spell manual that less than 10 people will ever see.
Thanks!

>>93919044
You should specify "inanimate object". Just for one thing, otherwise you'll get infinite table arguments about whether a normal human fits in a 2' cube box.

Also, you should decide whether it's an illusion (which would mean none of the object's properties really change) or a polymorph (as the damaging/cutting part implies).

>>93919060
The fully Gygaxian approach would be to make it a pinch of sugar.

>>93918903
So the way I am running dolmenwood is that the wood is weird and magical even in a world that already contains weird magics. Inside the wood children are kidnapped by fae, outside the wood children die in childbirth.
All the usual races exist; dwarfs; hobbits, ect.; but the players are people from Brackenwold and have to follow that character creator. This particular party has travelled to the titular borderlands (with the keep) same as any other adventures might.

>>93919092
Good point, though to be fair nobody that I play with would be rude enough to get into an argument over a homebrew spell as long as I verbally explain my intentions to them before they take it.
Thanks for picking that up, for now it'll be a polymorph.

>>93919044
>>93919092
Oh, one final thing, actually: your wording in the last part seems to imply that you imagine this being used for concealment or transportation of items, but you should be aware that players are fundamentally destructive creatures and, even if forbidden from using it for murder, will nevertheless attempt to use this spell for things like excavating a 2'-by-2' tunnel through a wall with repeated castings and making martini twists out of the extracted stone. This isn't a criticism of your spell, just a reminder to make sure you understand all of its ramifications in advance and parry any that you don't want.

>>93919135
Thanks. Yeah, I intend for this to be used by the crafty Magic-User amongst Thieves in a heist, or by a MU trying to evade taxes or suspicion by carrying a weird or unusual item through a checkpoint.

>excavating a 2'-by-2' tunnel through a wall with repeated castings and making martini twists out of the extracted stone
Lol. I get what you're saying, but that'd be a simple "Nah, it doesn't work that way" for my players. Item has to be detached and singular, unconnected to other things around it.

>>93919109
Hey, no problem, that's what this general's for.

>>93919160
Sure, I just wanted to flag it because it can easily frustrate a player who memorized the spell on the basis of misunderstanding it, especially if it's multiples. No doubt you're chill enough in turn to just let the player rememorize those spells on the spot, or whatever other reasonable solution springs to your mind in the moment, but you never know what an anon's group is like, so better to bring it up. A lot of the weirdly restrictive shit in AD&D is the result of this exact kind of player creativity and them coming from a play culture where backsies were frowned upon and PCs lived by the player's wits.

>>93918977
A gentleman of culture I see.
If I'm honest I was hoping for something a little more randomly generated but I think what I was looking for was maybe too much to ask.

>>93919604
NAYRT, but there's definitely a limit to what can be fruitfully done with random generators. Random tables can be great as adjuncts to your own creativity, but once you start trying to use them as a replacement, things will become flat and weird. Some forms of prep just need doing if you're going to run a game.

This is especially true in a case like this where the inputs may be complicated and full of depth as Anon outlined. Accounting for all those inputs would require an immensely complex subsystem which would get you longing for just evaluating things freely.

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I think it was an older OSR thread where I said I ordered dice from Temu.

This is the first batch.

The box didn't have divots in the top where I could slid the bottom out easy, so I cut some in.

>>93920039
They look nice, but I only buy transparent dice. I don't trust the materials they use in opaque dice, they almost always roll unfairly. Also numbers on the tip on the d4 are wrong.

Today I have received six sets of Koplow dice. They look very nice, just a bit on the small side, which is a bit disappointing. I can take a picture if anyone's interested.

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Wandering monsters in Quasqueton (B1) are MUCH lower than on the tables provided in B2 (which seem very similar if not identical to the ones in B/X).

What do you make of the difference? Is it down to style? Was Mike Carr a pussy? Were Gygax and Moldvay cunts?

Me, I have always felt that the "official" number of wandering monsters is on the high side and I am always tempted to reduce them.

>>93920103
I think Carr maybe had a better idea of what number and tier of wandering monsters were appropriate for entirely new players. There's a difference between "a module for level 1 PCs" and "a module for newbie players" which I'm not sure Gygax fully grasped; pretty much every (legitimate) complaint I've ever seen about the Caves has been some variety of this and is often dismissed by veteran players as ludicrous because you can totally combat-as-war the whole thing and so on. But that's because they're old grenadiers, not raw recruits.

>>93920078
>Koplow dice
I'm interested

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>>93920175
Here you go! Row of very worn out four-decades old Gamescience dice in the middle for scale. The size is not very noticeable in the picture, but they do feel light.

The clear ones are not very legible, they're already bad in the picture and with a dark background they're really annoying. I would recommend against those.

As for the others, 9/10 would buy again.

I would prefer the Gamescience ones were it not for the fact that I can't be bothered to sand down the casting blemish myself, and I am pretty sure the Koplow dice roll fairer out of the box because of that, although I haven't done the float test (yet).

>>93920153
Yeah that seems reasonable.

Stonehell, which I hold in very high regard, uses the same numbers as B2 on its first level, but numbers roughly similar to B1 on its zeroth level, so perhaps the B1 numbers could be understood as some sort of "level one-half" wandering monsters, and it would match your idea of level zero being for training new players, and level one where things get serious.

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>>93920103
Wandering Monster numbers are not standardized. I gave up and chalked it up to some locations simply have more or less of certain monsters.

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>>93917999
>>93917661

However, the magic missile makes up for both of them

>>93918884
Thanks for the not exactly Forgotten realms recommendations. Ultan's Door looks pretty cool, but maybe too much of a setting. Since I liked Hated Pretender I may look at the one by the same author, though it doesn't look big. I can't find anything about Curse of Craigbridge though.

>>93918884
"Random Esoteric Creature Generator" from Goodman Games will let you quickly replace most monsters in any setting with new ones.

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>>93919088

>>93919604
The random generators for that would be motivations, goals and resources more than specific activities. There's a bunch of those, worlds without number is probably closest to viable standardish fantasy faction generation.
iirc there's a large Hack & Slash table of monthly events, I think in one of the pandects but I don't remember which one. Could also try using the Adventurers Almanac and working backwards or modulating it to fit in game events.
There's so many variables based on what players are doing and reaction rolls that it seems hard to have a specific table for it, more of a procedures thing.

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>>93921435
>I can't find anything about Curse of Craigbridge though.
That's because I spelled it like a retard. Haven't touched the DCC version but the LL version is likely still in the usual place.
>https://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?p=2980

Tomb Robbers on the Crystal Frontier is a lot of fun and has a few lairs as side material but its largely its own setting.

>>93921765
With followup retardation, that is not to imply 10' pole is the usual place, just that it has a decent review of the dungeon.

I'm trying to write some spell about creating pocket dimensions such as enchanting a hat during a given time to hide loot or weapons; or enchanting a tent to fit the party alongside their horses inside. In a way that can be render permanent by sacrificing the spell slot (this might be the way in which the backrooms are created)

>>93919088

How could I do it man? One spell or one for objects, other for creatures? Any sugestion on the spell level? I just like the idea of it, not sure if its good for the game

>>93919076
not osr

>>93917408
Stop being a fuckface and play more games, four hours of procedural dungeon crawling once a month isn't real D&D.

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>>93922700
>2024
>PLAYING D&D

>>93920215
>his Gamescience dice actually have rounded corners
Holy shit that's a lot of rolling lad. My hat's off to you.

>>93920230
It seems entirely plausible, yeah. I don't know if Curtis is still active in the OSR, but you could always try and ask him.

>>93921717
>>93919801
Appreciate the responses anons. I'll take your wisdom into account.

what's the best way to run combat as sport in BX?

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Why are goblins, kobolds, knolls, hobgoblins, and orcs considered "giant class?" Are all Rangers just manlets?

>>93924032
Like bloodbowl?

>>93924312
I don't know why Gygax went with 'giant class' but it's definitely meant to be the broad category of creatures that are inimical to civilization and are found on its borders. Humanoids, which covers about half the list, only suggests creatures approximately human-sized but the want to include giants, trolls, and the like meant a need for a category with a more inclusive scope.

tl;dr who fucking knows? Gygax's reasoning is totally opaque sometimes, at least he made a definitive list

>>93924312
The "giant class" originates in OD&D and comprises those creatures encountered if "Giant" is rolled on the wilderness wandering monster tables. There, the "Giant Types" are Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Gnolls, Ogres, Trolls, Giants, Gnomes, Dwarves, Elves and Ents. As the last four entries suggest, and as Anon indicates, this is a classification of convenience and isn't really meant to constitute some sort of phylogenetic connection.

I totally agree with Anon that once the four lawful creature types are removed, the giant class simply forms the category of humanoids inimical to civilization. It makes sense that these are the creatures the Ranger is specialized in fighting.

>>93917408
>There should be no detectable beginning or end
So no satisfying conclusion, just the group getting bored and trailing off, demanding we play something else, possibly even disbanding. Great. Sounds.... "Fun".

>>93918440
Tastes have moved on, making this a "boutique" game at best. That means any crowd willing to play is vanishingly small, and organising local games is next to impossible. A purity spiral leading to nogames.

>>93924321
"Combat as sport" vs "combat as war" is one of those RPG theory that's very popular when you want to sound smart in NuSR circles on plebbit.

Safely ignored.

>>93920786
>However, the magic missile makes up for both of them
Doesn't exactly go against my assessment
>1d4 every level, 2.5 per level on average
>as opposed to 1d4+1 every other level, 1.75 per level or so
I can't wait to see how cucked or "improved" the other staple spells are.

>>93925245
combat as war is trve osr

>>93925245
It's fine, it's a succinct explanation of the difference between the way OSR folks view combat (a tool to accomplish goals, one of several, where stacking the deck and having it over before it began is a good thing) and how modern tabletop gamers (5e) view combat (an end in itself, where you expect a "fair" fight you can will win, and get to see your dudes do cool moves with epic powers)

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Ever used the weapon class rules from chainmail with the alternative combat rules?
Character attacks first if the wielded weapons class is two classes higher than the opponent but if it misses the lower class weapon gets basically two attacks. At least that's how I read it.

I'm a big fan of the DCC Spellburn and casting system in general; my question to you all is how can I best adapt this system into my 1e game? I feel it would fit the gritty tone of my table well.

Has anyone done this in their game?

>>93925639
that's nice, anyways DCC isn't osr so fuck off

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>>93925639
DCC casting is shit for anything but a short-term beer'n'pretzels game. Good luck being a high level wizard if just casting magic has fucked you up six ways from Sunday.
Also, not OSR

>>93917361
Ugh, pass. Sounds lame.

>>93925639
I will reply if you ask on /todd/, where your question belongs.

>>93925045
>Tastes have moved on, making this a "boutique" game at best
I guess. I got into AD&D a year and a half ago and it's my favourite system so far.

>>93925045
>a "boutique" game at best. That means any crowd willing to play is vanishingly small
>organising local games is next to impossible
The small town I live in has no public 5E games but thanks to me it does have an open table ad&d 1st edition game.

>>93926530
>>93926737
You guys are replying to bait.

It's good that you're enjoying AD&D though.

Are there any appendix N books that have sex/erotic scenes or that deals with rape/sex slaves at least?

I was watching frank frazzeta's art and it hints that it is a vital part of the "implied setting" though it seems to have no literary counterpart.

>>93926913
No, pulp was written back when obscenity was still a real thing you could get arrested for. It's all done by implication. (Also, a lot of the writers resented the lurid covers on Weird Tales and other magazines; Howard, for example, didn't even really want to write Conan stories with girls of the week in them, he just wanted to write historical fiction for nerds, like a dork. So the actual stories are often at odds with their presentation.)

>>93927307
My God, it all makes sense now. The girls were always the most boring part of the Conan stories.

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>>93926913
Its not Appendix N but its in the gardening area you're looking for.

I've been considering a small house rule lately, curious to know what you all think of it.

Essentially: creatures with save vs death poison don't cause death immediately: I roll a d6 and that's how many rounds it takes to kill the victim. During that time, Neutralize Poison and similar spells can still save them. But the big thing is that I allow Cure spells to have a chance at neutralizing poison: for every HD of the poisonous creature, it takes 3hp of healing to neutralize its poison. This has to be in one spell, not cumulative over more than one casting.

>>93926913
There's that book series turned into a B movie covered by MST3K, it has a shitty name like Grog or Undar or whatever fantasy name. It's about a middle aged dude being transported into a world where women are sex slaves but he's nice to them so they're happy being his sex slaves and help him overthrow the regime. Give me a few minutes to figure out how to google it. It's in a lot of top 10 cringiest novels and the like.

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>>93926913
>>93928886
Gor
According to wiki
>The series has been variously referred to by publishers with several names, including The Chronicles of Counter-Earth (Ballantine Books), The Saga of Tarl Cabot (DAW Books), Gorean Cycle (Tandem Books), Gorean Chronicles (Masquerade Books), Gorean Saga (Open Road Media) and The Counter-Earth Saga (DAW Books, for novels with a protagonist other than Tarl Cabot).

38 fucking novels, the dude liked writing.
It says it got an unoficial anime too, Fencers of Minerva

>>93928842
Wotcfag detected.

>>93927455
>>93928886
>>93928918
>Gor
Kek, the best thing about Gor is that there's a bunch of Gor references in the Blackmoor material, most notably the tarns(?) – bigass riding eagles cool Goreans have. Gygax baleeted it and replaced the tarns with rocs.

>>93929123
Probably a copyright issue

>>93929140
Are you insane? Look at the amount of Tolkien content in the first printing of OD&D, they didn't give a fuck.

>>93928842
Save vs death is already the easiest save but if you want to get into toxicity sort of stuff you could have different dice sizes for stronger or lesser death liquids.
Allowing Cure to get into poisoning makes Neutralize Poison a lot less appealing as a spell choice for an already limited spell, at that point I'd say fuck it and just have 'heal' that can do hp or poison and move on with life. It'll significantly depower posionous creatures though which is lame. Save vs death is already the
>you have fucked up and here is your last chance
roll.

>>93929206
>Look at the amount of Tolkien content
like hobbits, the thing that they had to change for copyright reassons?

>>93929224
Yes you dipshit, exactly like the hobbits and balrogs they had to change after the... fourth? printing. The point is that the Gor material from Blackmoor *wasn't* removed in later printings, it was never added to OD&D in the first place because Gygax thought it was repugnant, not because of copyright issues which he didn't even seem to understand (e.g. them just publishing a Barsoom game without even checking with the Burroughs estate).

>>93929213
I like that thought about die sizes. I'm largely thinking about this because creatures with instakill poison have, generally, been the thing that kills my group's fun the hardest. I don't really mind them personally, but I'm also not looking to make this into a slog for them.

>>93928842
Would not agree with allowing Cure spells to have this effect; it also feels like you're not really familiar with AD&D's Slow Poison *or* Basic's rules for Neutralize Poison, which, honestly, comes off a bit odd.

(To summarize, Slow Poison can be cast on a creature killed by poison within as many *turns* as the Cleric has levels and will keep that creature alive for as many hours; in Basic, Neutralize Poison can be cast on any creature that died of poison within the last 10 rounds and will revive that creature – so, that use is d6 rounds in either case? Makes no sense.)

I don't think your desire for anti-poison measures to have some time to work is wrong obviously, but I do get the impression that you didn't really familiarize yourself with these rules and so you're trying to fix a solved problem.

>>93928842
I'll tell you what I do: I've merged Remove Curse, Remove Disease and Neutralize Poison.

My line of thought is:

In-rules, I want some versatility to spells. I've also reduced the spell slots to half of them to pay for it.

In-game, I don't see the reason to difference all three things, much less given the "medieval" point of view. In a fantasy world, I don't think they make much difference between a magical or a biological disease.

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Did Gary Gygax or any of the old grognards ever release an "official" or maybe just published opinion on how to handle cheaters in games? My last session I caught one of my players looking behind my screen, and I poked fun at him, but then the discussion went to weighted dice and that sort of thing. It got me thinking if anyone had ever addressed cheating back in the day?

>>93931269
>not playing from behind a file cabinet

>>93931269
>Did Gary Gygax or any of the old grognards ever release an "official" or maybe just published opinion on how to handle cheaters in games?
They didn't even allow players to roll their own dice, how could they cheat?

>>93931269
Gygax spends about 500 words in the DMG fulminating about how to deal with various kinds of crappy and disruptive players, but I don't have a screenshot of it, sorry.

>>93931269
The game was invented by adult wargamers for adult wargamers who spent entire weekends playing for 12 hours a day. Cheating probably didn't even occur to them, that's the kind of thing casuals and kids do.

>>93931410
I don't rememebr Gygax discussing cheating
in the DMG but I'd be delighted to be proved wrong.

>>93931269
Gygax says attack them with ethereal mummies, zap them with blue bolts from the heavens for hp damage, and drain their Charisma scores.
Obviously this is stupid as fuck. In game consequences don’t solve player behavior.
The best thing to do is take the offender aside after the game, tell them you are aware of their transgressions, don’t tolerate back chat, and next time you will kick them from the table without the consideration of doing it privately.

>>93931577
>In game consequences don’t solve player behavior
Disagree, this is only true of players who don't give a shit about the game, which is a different class of problem player than the cheater who cares so much that he wants to "win."

>>93931668
Inflicting in-game consequences on a character just opens the door for more whinging and victimization narrative. If a person isn’t mature enough to take actual admonishment they’re not mature enough to be sitting at the table with other adults.
I have actually dealt with these kinds of people and my experience says warn then kick. If your experience is different then by all means, act in the fashion you have received results with. Life is a rich tapestry.

>>93931756
>Inflicting in-game consequences on a character just opens the door for more whinging and victimization narrative.
Are you playing with literal children? Hell, even literal children are more likely to laugh and say "haha, busted!" than to do that shit you're talking about

>>93931800
You’ve never encountered an immature sperg that can’t handle setbacks? Count yourself lucky I guess.

>>93931957
No, but I am saying that most people are not that, and will respond to in-game punishments just fine.

>>93926737
This is the way

Should there be a way for players to gain the abilities of a specialist such as a siege engineer or an armourer?

It seems like the kind of thing someone should be able to do, to me at least. Any systems that do this?

>>93933352
osr doesn't have skills like that; if the player wants to be skilled at siege engineering or the like, then they need knowledge of it irl

>>93933352
Hire an NPC, players aren't here to roll dice to make horseshoes, and if you do that shit at my table I will strangle you on the spot. (in AD&D)
Adventure is the point, not simulating being a tradesman.

I want to do a bronze age setting next but I'm at a loss for what civilization could have built ruins and dungeons and shit to explore, beyond yog-sothothery shit, any ideas bros?

>>93933411
Wise and resolute lizard men who knew their time had come; aliens from space who seeded all life on your world; evil snake men who kept the monkeys down; mole people from the hollow earth who reseed civilization afer every collapse; our present day world before a rogue planet hurtled between the earth and the moon unleashing sorcery.
Take your pick.

>>93930006
>kills my group's fun the hardest
I'd just dial back the amount of creatures with the ability but ymmv. I like being able to say
>roll to save vs DEATH
sometimes, adds gravitas.
But this anon >>93930470
has a good solution I think.

>>93933411
Atlantis, aliens, nephilum, creator being from beyond time.
Yog-sothery sounds cool though.

>>93933411
Cyclopians. Its classic. They built big ruins, degraded and inhabit them.
Nephilim. Different bronze age but also classic. Built big towers, smitten by god for fucking around and finding out.
Atlantean colonies that fell into decay after their home island sunk into the sea.

>>93933572
>>93933574
>nephilmind

>>93933578
???

>>93933593
Older meme.
>2 anons responds with same answer in short enough period of time the first response is not displayed
>XYZmind, similar to hivemind

Are there any systems besides stars without number that could well support a campaign of space piracy? Essentially the ideas that player's force ably board ships as dungeons, take plunder and hostages, and have some degree of domain building from improving their ships and establishing some kind of pirate stronghold?

Even stars without number really is without systems for building ships as dungeons.

>>93933706
>stars without number
not osr, also wrong thread for your question

>>93933516
>>93933572
>>93933574
Yeah, it's painfully obvious to me now, cyclopes are tragically underused and kinda fit the giantish nature of the nephilim. Think that's a winner for me.

/r/ing the name of a small campaign setting that was talked about here, I think. There were multiple ruins of a precursor civilization or race and each ruin-dungeon had pieces of puzzles that would make sense in other dungeons. I don't remember much beyond that, but I wanted to study it for my own campaign. Other settings or modules that accomplish this are also fine, if you know of any.

>>93928886
>It's about a middle aged dude being transported into a world where women are sex slaves but he's nice to them so they're happy being his sex slaves
Fucking epic.

>>93933516
I like all of these except for the "our present day world" one, the lizard men and snake men who kept the monkeys down thing are particularly cool to me.

>>93934670
That last one's a reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSKamG44JDU

>>93934692
This is fucking cool. I like to think that being born in the 90s allowed me to experience a ton of holdover material from the 80s, but then there's stuff like this that I've never even heard of.

Time to download this whole show and mine it for inspiration.

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>>93933411
The Elders

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>>93933411
Try some Malazan Book of the Fallen races such as T'lan Imass as inspirations

>>93917345
does anyone have an actual example video of what you'd consider "regular" play (for example the dungeoncrawl, combat, exploration procedures). I understand the rules but there's a lack of B/X actual play examples online

>>93935861
You're likelier to find some by searching for BFRPG actual play or Old School Essentials actual play or BECMI actual play, just not a lot filed away under the nomer B/X actual play.

>>93933706
Stars without number has Dead Names, which is initially about ancient aliens but the dungeon generation would work for spaceships as well.
Hulks and Horrors has wreck generation iirc.
Might be something in Warband! As well, been a while since I looked.
Mothershit might have space ship dungeon generator stuff but it's not even a bit osr so you're better off making a thread for that.
There's been a bunch of sci-fi skirmish games recently, 5 Parsecs might also have something you could use but it would need almost entirely rebuilding.

>>93935861
Greg Gillespie has a few videos of actual play of his bx clone. It might be up your alley.

>>93935861
Yes. I thought that this was decent.
https://www.youtube.com/live/wNXKLW6LOpE?si=8YTKiGic4mTZ-v75&t=437

Also, there's a podcast called 'Grogtalk'. They would sometimes do very short (say 30 minute) actual plays where they would test the mechanic that they were discussion per episode.

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I'm looking for systems that help me run a rules-light colony sim similar to Rimworld between the GM and a single player. The idea is we do monthly summaries where meters, progress and events are managed, and maybe 1-2 important scenes played out (those don't really need rules at all).
First thing that came to mind was Kevin Crawford's Domain and Scheme system, as well as The Quiet Year for events.
I don't need a complete rulebook geared towards this, I'm fine just stealing some good rules and tables that do these things well.

>>93936046
>>93936694
>>93936782
thanks, I'll look these up. I also found a Dolmenwood actual play that is really good for the purposes I need on 3d6 down the line

>>93937012
>why /todd/ exists?
To talk games that are off-topic here.

>Is AD&D on-topic?
Read the OP.

>>93937152
So I can discuss 1st edition in either thread? Holy moly, the choice...

>>93936866
>rules-light
Off-topic here. On-topic on /todd/.

>>93933706
Maybe there is something in Spelljammer?

>>93937169
Thanks for the tip, I'll be on my way then

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>>93918962
>finally convince some of my players to try OSE
>been looking forward to this for weeks, doing literally nothing but reading books and preparing in my spare time
>today is the day
>one player suddenly has a meeting they need to go to
>one player's uncle broke his elbow so he has to go deal with that
>one player hasn't answered my texts or calls in days

Words cannot express how much I hate 5E right now. I am going to kill everyone and then myself.

>>93940418
>one player's uncle broke his elbow
Since when are you responsible for your uncle's limbs and joints? Not to be a downer but this sounds so much like a feeble excuse, RIP

>>93940418
Heartbreaking.

>>93928886
>>93934645
M'lady

>>93934822
I envy your new discovery. Good times ahead for you.

>>93937012
why don't you ask /todd/?

>>93942157
He can't, there's nobody in there to answer.

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>>93942251

Has anyone ran Operation Unfathomable and its companion the Odious Uplands? This looks like a lot of fun at a glance. I might have to trim a little bit of the gonzo out (otter people in particular, what the hell) but overall I like what I'm seeing.
Also not super suited for a long campaign, but that's probably fine. Seems like it would last a few months and be a nice palate cleanser.

>>93940664
>>93941603
Yeah Im jaded enough to not believe them for a second. Ill be bothering them about it next 5E session we have and we'll see if the pattern repeats. Ill try one more time at least in case it really is a coincidence. Did make a new friend at the bar we were meant to play at though so its not a total loss.

Something I've been having trouble explaining as a DM: How do parties with torches surprise monsters who have darkvision or are otherwise not producing any light?

>>93943194
They don't. Infravision is strong.

>>93943250
Wouldn't the books mention that? They just say both monsters and parties are surprised on 1 in 6 and doesn't specify any exceptions. Or maybe AD&D does, I've only read B/X, BECMI and OD&D.

>>93943290
>Wouldn't the books mention that?
DMG for certain, couldn't say about B/X.

You can see the stars at night, torches are a lot closer underground.

>>93943194
They don't, besides the usual 1-6 chances, infravision shows heat signatuers in the dark, it's "countered" by torches of sunlight, certanly a monster would notice a group of people coming his direction with bright torches, when he is used to being in the dark, thus applying the usual chances for surprise.
Besides monsters are assumed to see in the dark even better than normal characters

>>93943250
>They don't.
Correct.

>>93943290
>Wouldn't the books mention that?
Not necessarily, since they are written for adult boomer wargamers instead of for zoomer vidya kids. In other words, they assume that the reader is intelligent.

>>93943194
>How do parties with torches surprise monsters
By going through doors.

>who have darkvision
What the fuck's a "darkvision", WotCfag? There's no such thing in D&D. Perhaps you are thinking of infravision.


>>93943290
>I've only read B/X, BECMI and OD&D.
Not very carefully:

>In the underworld some light source or an infravision spell must be used. Torches, lanterns and magic swords will illuminate the way, but they also allow monsters to “see” the users so that monsters will never be surprised unless coming through a door.

Gygax and Arneson, The Underworld and Wilderness Adventures

>>93943194
>Noun. infravision (uncountable) (fantasy, gaming) A superhuman ability to see in the dark.

unless the mob was turned the other way on the other side of the door, the party wouldn't have much of an element of surprise.

Try this, stand in a hallway in the dark, have someone at the end of the hallway put their phone light on. How quickly do you see a change in lighting?

>>93943969
That's why you roll for it, 2in6 chance they are not paying attention or what have you

Guys I want to make up a spell about entangling vines; basically a re-skinning of Web but in plant-life environments only.

The main difference is that escaping could be done through cutting weapons. Should I make a rule to difference the struggle to pull out a dagger from a belt in contrast to pulling a much longer sword?

>>93944499
also, isnt it weird that web hasnt a save vs paralyzation?

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>>93944290
>That's why you roll for it, 2in6 chance they are not paying attention or what have you
Don't bother trying to explain the spirit of the game to realismfags, they would rather have 10 bandits hold down Lord Robilar using grappling rules and then rob and kill him than allow for fantastic stories to occur at their tables.

>>93944577
Reversefag proves once again he belongs in /todd/. Go keep it alive, Reversefag! We count on you!

Anyone find the 2d6 x 10 feet encounter distance for wandering monsters in dungeon in B/X a bit odd? Maybe because of how the dungeon I was running was structured, but it typically put wandering monsters several rooms away from the PCs and I ran it as such.

>>93944499
Do you imagine the dagger to not be a cutting implement when escaping from webs? Like they're shanking their way out of the web?
Should more or less directly reskin.

>>93944769
i meant the opposite: pulling a dagger should be easier in a restrained situation.

The spell as it is:

Growth of Plants: Turn any area with brush or trees impassable; or summon 1d6 ivys to entangle your foes. Breaking one of such ties requires an Open Doors check, or a cutting weapon's attack vs an AC of 11 (pulling a sword from its sheath requires a save vs paralyzation, but a dagger from your belt doesn't).

>>93944667
>Try to keep the oldschool spirit of AD&D alive
>Anon screeches at me "reversing"
Mind explaining your twisted reasoning, FOE?

>>93944749
It is odd, especially combined with the rules that monsters can't be surprised by parties carrying torches. I would keep in mind that these are guidelines for refereeing, much like the reaction roll is only meant to be used when you don't know the monster's reaction. If the result is obvious in advance, don't roll; if the dice give an absurd result, disregard it. This is really just rhe same as how a stack of random tables can't substitute for the referee's judgment in other matters, only boost the imagination.

>>93944795
I think by "reversefag" he's just referring to your odd tendency to post color-flipped screencaps of the DMG. He's being a retard about this specific issue though.

>>93944749
Hallways. With hallways and not retarded room size the encounters will be within the hallway or the room in question outside of edge cases.

>>93944840
You mean the DM should place the wandering monsters nearby, say, just around the corner? So far I've interpreted the distance roll to make it so wandering monsters also have to move, treating them differently than static encounters per room, making it so the DM has to think about their movement, too. Placing monsters around the bend probably plays a fair bit more organically and puts the fear of wandering monsters into the players a bit better.

>>93944577
you didn't have to be mean to him, I didn't think he said anything egregious or even off

>>93944749
Does it not clarify in BX, like in adnd, that when the length of the room or corridor is less than what this range represents, that you roll for each 10ft, so in a 40ft room its 1d4, a 50ft 1d5, etc. it's in the dmg, but i assume it must be somewhere in bx

>>93945070
>it's in the dmg, but i assume it must be somewhere in bx
Bad assumption. That type of more detailed procedure is always a mark of AD&D, Basic cuts all of it for simplicity.

>>93945070
"The Wandering Monster will be 20-120 feet away from the party when encountered (roll 2d6, multiply the result by 10) in a direction of the DM's choosing, and will be headed toward the player characters." B53. OSE CF echoes this. Sensible that AD&D has something for it, does OD&D have that too?

>>93945111
>does OD&D have that too?
No, OD&D just has a tighter range to start with.
>Sighting Monsters: Players will see monsters at 20-80 feet (roll a pair of four-sided dice to determine the distance) unless they are *surprised* by the monster.
>Surprise: A condition of surprise can only exist when one or both parties are unaware of the presence of the other. Such things as ESP'ing, light, and noise will negate surprise. If the possibility for surprise exists roll a six-sided die for each party concerned. A roll of 1 or 2 indicates the party is *surprised*. Distance is then 10-30 feet.

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MFW the random encounter tables in the DMG include the possibility for...

>6th level dungeon:
25-100 giant rats
30-90 kobolds
30-75 goblins
35-60 orcs
16-40 gnolls

>11th level dungeon:
50-200 giant rats
60-180 kobolds
60-150 goblins
70-120 orcs
36-90 gnolls

>16th level dungeon:
75-300 giant rats
90-270 kobolds
90-225 goblins
105-180 orcs
56-140 gnolls
26-91 bugbears
10 hydras (10-12 heads each)
10 old red dragons (6hp/die)

It gets pretty busy down there! What does this tell us about the AD&D ecology?

>>93945375
The lower levels are titanic caverns of an entedeluvian age, the dungeon goes down all the way to hell where miasma directly spawns in creatures of evil, ecology be damned

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>>93917408
Idiot

>>93945375
>multiply numbers by x15 for 1st level monsters in a 16th level dungeon
This is incorrect. Why is this mistake so common? You double the monsters on level 2, then triple them on level 3 and so on, so on level 16, 1st level monster numbers are multiplied by x16.

>>93945436
>This is incorrect. Why is this mistake so common?
Lol. As I was typing it I was thinking "wait, shouldn't it be 16×?"

Not sure if that makes it better or worse, though.

>>93945375
>What does this tell us about the AD&D ecology?
Nothing we don't already know? Rats thrive on scurrying in narrow passages in the dark, thus deep underground, piles of gigantic rats thrive even more off scurrying even harder through darker passages. It's only logic, son.

Also, those are pretty much just one wilderness encounter's worth of goblins. If the PCs can't cope with that shit by the time they hit the underdank, they have bigger problems than No. Appearing.

>>93945459
Agree, as a player it's probably more the 9 ghosts, 10 banshees, 10 old red dragons, or 36 mind flayers I'd be concerned about.

>>93945459
>>93945571
Or 9 Balors.
>Wait, only six are known to exist. Must be an illusion!

>>93945581
I mean the 8th level has the potential to roll a level X creature, which is one of the actual demon princes as an encounter. It makes sense that level 16 would be comically absurd with that metric
speaking of, the level 2-3 has always bugged me, feels like some kind of legacy thing from play testing that should have been ironed out

>>93945581
In defense of these tables I should point out that the text clearly states an exception in such cases: the unique monster will be given attendant monsters rather than greater numbers.

>>93945760
If I had to bet money on it, I'd say the level 2-3 thing is just space constraint, they couldn't fit another row in the page and they merged two radom rows. I've smoothed it out, the jump from 1 to 4 is so big that you can easily fit reasonably equally spaced 2 and 3 between them.

>>93945760
>speaking of, the level 2-3 has always bugged me, feels like some kind of legacy thing from play testing that should have been ironed out
Yeah, it's weird, because you can easily extrapolate how "2nd level" should look. (The fact that the table leaps directly from level III max to level V max, not seen anywhere else in the table, implies the line given is for level 3.)

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>>93945807
>implies the line given is for level 3.
I have actually corrected both to have even steps in average encounter level between 1 and 4. In picrel, the red underlined italics numbers are those I have changed.

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>>93946017
>>93945807
v2. Same average, but with a clear mode on Encounter Level 2 for Dungeon Level 3, which I think is better.

The GM for our group had to cancel today, so I offered to run Keep on the Borderlands for the two other guys that showed up. I used OSE, and they each rolled three level 2 characters. It was my first time running an old-school-type game.
We didn't have much time, so I dropped them right in front of the caves and had them roll three random rumors they heard at the keep. One of the rumors was about a giant pile of magical loot in the southern caves, so they went there. They sent the assassin to scout ahead, and he quickly came running back after alerting some goblins.
The party decided to rush in before the gobbos could react. Unfortunately, the gobbos had already alerted the guards in the other two rooms. The party lost the barbarian instantly, and they probably would have had to run away or perish at the hands of a dozen green shites if it wasn't for the druid casting Entangle. There were no plants in the corridor, but he had bought a fresh clove of garlic at character creation and specified that the stem was still attached, so I allowed him to throw it and cast the spell. All the goblins failed their checks and had their throats slit by the party.
While they were picking through the loot, two guards that had stayed behind during the fight rushed to buy the services of the ogre. The party heard his approach and tried to run, but he caught up to them in the southern guard room. It was a close fight, but eventually, the party managed to kill him, downing an additional goblin as he ran away.

>>93946337
The party continued and broke into the caves of the hobgoblins. With the advantage of surprise, they managed to wipe out the males in the living quarters while the females and young escaped.
They took one surviving hobgob male, and after finding out he spoke Common, they decided to demand that he tell them where to find the treasure pile and what other enemies there were in the caves. The hobgob succeeded in his morale save, so I decided he'd try to lie and lead them into an ambush. He claimed all the other hobgoblins were out raiding some caravans and that he'd lead them to the treasure they sought. The party agreed, and we stopped just as he led them to the guards and shouted out a warning.
Overall, it was fun. I hope we can get a second session in the future.

>>93943691
>>93943969
That's what I'm saying. There didn't seem to be a plausible explanation for getting the drop on monsters with infravision in unlit areas even 1 out of 6 times. Though apparently OD&D does explain that it's only possible through doors (or other light-blocking barriers the party could go through, presumably)

>>93946337
>>93946343
Cool sesh, Anon! Hope you get to play it again!

>>93944499
Is this not the Entangle spell?

>>93945375
Sounds fun desu

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>>93946837
sorry im a BXlet and didnt knew about this. I like my version better, though.

How do you guys award XP for killing a classed NPC?

>>93947764
By the book.

>>93947764
by the book

>>93947764
By the book.

>>93947764
Whoever sucks me off after the session gets a 13% xp multiplier.

>>93948336
This is by the book.

>>93945375
Wtf are you supposed to do about that many orcs? Combat as war be dawned, you're just outnumbered

>>93949873
Turn 360 degrees and walk away.

>>93949968
What if it's a dungeon though

>>93949873
On level 16 of the dungeon you're presumably an average character level 16 as well. The M-U has 8th-level spells. The orcs are also pussies that the Fighter can churn at a rate of 16 per round. The problem isn't really dealing with them, the problem is the tedium.

>>93950089
even at higher levels though player hp isn't very high, wouldn't the orcs chew through them pretty quickly? Oh actually I guess the way accuracy/armor works in earlier editions it might actually be almost impossible for the orcs to hit.

how are you even running this many orcs without resorting to handwavey rulings?

>>93950118
>how are you even running this many orcs without resorting to handwavey rulings?
I have no idea, I don't really think a lot of people bothered with this shit in practice. In theory though I'd just decide how many can attack at once (three abreast in a 10' corridor is the AD&D norm) and then roll the appropriate number of attacks.

'Course, in OD&D you could just use Normal Combat and chuck a heap of the D6es everyone owns. Say what you will about Chainmail combat, resolution is fast as a bitch.

>>93935861
Bandit's Keep is my go to for actual plays. His players are solid and he's a good dm. He also covers a lot of different systems including OD&D.
>>93936782
I like GrogTalk too.

>>93949873
>Wtf are you supposed to do about that many orcs?
Mass combat rules.

>>93950089
>the Fighter can churn orcs at a rate of 16 per round
In OD&D sure, but this is AD&D, so no.

>>93950118
>how are you even running this many orcs
Mass combat rules.

>>93948439
RLKEK

>>93948439
It actually is in "AD&D" 2e.

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>>93950966
The first time I used mass combat rules in AD&D is what really made the system click for me. I grew up reading my dad's DMG/PHB/MM and playing with his Grenadier miniatures. I memorized so many things about the monsters and fell in love with the art. When I played games with my dad, it was usually other TSR games like Dawn Patrol or, if we did play D&D, it was his own off-the-top-of-the-head B/X type game he'd run for kids. I played a lot of 3.5 in high school and later on as it was what other people were playing, but got back into old school systems once I had the freedom to dictate what games we were playing. This was after trying 5E with my friends, which immediately left a bad taste in my mouth.
Sorry for the blogpost, but this gives context for my revelatory moment: I ran a mass combat between orcs and goblins and my player characters alongside their henchmen (henchmen being a concept ignored by my group for the previous decade). If I had to do individual initiative for each character, listen to my players agonize about what feats or abilities they wanted to use and help them count on fingers the myriad of plusses and minuses for each attack the encounter would have taken hours. Instead, it was over and done with in twenty minutes. My players enacted a battle plan, led a cavalry charge and thinned ranks with a few volleys of arrows. That moment alone, I think, really sold my group on returning to traditional D&D. The fun of the game is playing the game. Not "builds", not spending six hours creating a character only for the campaign to end in two sessions because everyone is burnt out and bored, but actually getting on with the adventure.

tl;dr: mass combat rules work great, AD&D kicks ass and 5E is gay.

okay but what good are mass combat rules gonna do a party of like 8 against like 100 orca? I get that mass combat rules make it possible to run but wouldn't the players just get wiped out

How do non thiefs listen at doors? A thief has a “hear noise” ability, but the cleric has functional ears too, and the thief is busy having been flattened by the falling stone trap. Also, the cleric only knows animate dead, not raise dead. How does she listen for the snoring dragon behind that door?

>>93951193
>100 orca?
Better have a boat
>>93951237
Try reading the rulebook? Non-thieves have a flat 1-in-6 chance to hear sounds through a door, etc. Thieves start at 2 in 6 and have the ability to get better at it as they level. All the things thieves do are available to other players, thieves just do them better, or can do them in worse circumstances where the other characters wouldn't even get to try.

>>93951193
>wouldn't the players just get wiped out
There's a 2d curve on the (average character level, party size, magic items available) 3d space above of, to the right of, and beyond which it can't be done, and below, to the left, and before which of which it can't.

>>93951364
Add, if you wish, player skill and DM pussyness to make it a 4-surface in a 5-space.

I will go one step further and claim that all these curves are convex, leaving the proof as an exercise to the reader.

>>93950963
>In OD&D sure, but this is AD&D, so no.
AD&D Fighters still get one attack per level against 1-HD-or-less enemies.

>>93951400
Hold up. They get that in OD&D too? Where?

>>93951193
>party of like 8 against like 100 orca
Assume a party of seven 5th-level fighters and one fifth-level magic-user. Further assume that the orcs are in phalanx formation and in the open.

1) The Magic-User casts fireball. One fireball from a 5th level Magic-User covers enough volume to kill 89 orcs in one go if they are in phalanx formation.

Proof: A fireball hits a volume of 33k cubic feet. If thrown at ground level, this is a half-ball with radius
(8/3) * pi * r^3 = 33,000
r = 16 feet
A = pi * r^2 = 804 square feet
In phalanx formation, each orc takes up 9 square feet, so that's
804/9 = 89 orcs killed

2) The seven 5th level fighter can kill off the remaining 11 orcs in two rounds, assuming they don't run away.

>B-but it's in a dungeon, not in the open!
Then a correctly placed fireball can easily take off 200 orcs, since much less upward volume will be wasted.

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>>93951400
>AD&D Fighters still get one attack per level against 1-HD-or-less enemies.
How many times do you need to be corrected on this? Why didn't you check the rulebook for yourself?

>>93951410
>Hold up. They get that in OD&D too? Where?
Three sources:
1. LBB2 page 5, in High Gygaxian.
2. Further clarified in The Strategic Review issue #2 page 5 with an example with a Hero against Orcs.
3. Implcitly confirmed in Swords & Spells page 1, with two more examples of high-level fighers against Ircs.

Do notice the important distinction that in OD&D they get it against Orcs too, whereas in AD&D it only goes up to Goblins and Men-at-Arms.

>>93950680
Daniel Norton is just as FOE as Randall Earthmote and Justin Alexander by the standards of this thread. Let's not waste our breath on them here any further.

>>93951471
In fact, in OD&D they get it against "Normal-Types" which apparently means any creature that would form rank and file troops as opposed to being an individual monster, so including ghouls, hobgoblins, bugbears, wights, and PCs without Hero Fighting Capability (or better).

>>93935861
Bandits Keep - especially the old stuff - is good. Hobbs' Gamerhood is also good. And I like to point people to Red Dice Diaries also - he has old APs that are good.

>>93946017
>>93946033
Neat thanks anon. What's the rest of the cut-off section of the second table?

>>93946033
>>93946017
Neat, got the ones past 8 to share too? Good formatting.

>>93950966
I don't even do this, it's fairly easy to just use the normal rules for combat, but possibly that's just me having a very firm grip on things and not doable for others

>>93936888
I am told their Arden Vul is better. The Dolmenwood one is way too improv theater - Arden Vul actually has a dungeon.

>>93951193
depends on the level of the party, level one yeah it's a slaughter, but upwards?

>>93952852
I assume it's unchanged from the books past that

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>>93952836
>>93952852

>>93952991
>I assume it's unchanged from the books past that
I actually smoothed out levels 10, 12, 14, and 15 as well. Didn't think there was interest in it because they don't really come up in practice. See
>>93953335

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>>93952836
>>93952852
>>93952991
>>93953335
This is the version with the least changes. I do go back and forth a bit on how much to smooth it out, I think there's several flaws with the original one. Depends on how sperg I feel about it all on any given day.

>>93953378
It's sad that a lot of the things here are more in depth than what you see in somehow actually published shitbrews that basically change nothing.

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anyone got the OSR DM screen PDF?

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>>93954423

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>>93954451
thanks anon!

>>93953335
>>93953344
>>93953378
Thank you, with a long enough pit trap fall everything is relevant.
I'll try it out, thank you!

>>93953643
50 years of innovation.
It's similar to how the weapon type versus armor table needs to be corrected.
I dread starting the process.

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>>93955383
>It's similar to how the weapon type versus armor table needs to be corrected.
You've seen this already, right? Anon already converted the Chainmail MTM table to proportional modifiers for the typical d20 attack roll, many years ago.

>>93955762
>Zweihander [sic] +12 to hit against chain + shield
That's silly on so many levels.

>>93955762
on the topic, I somewhat disagree with the basis for making the change, and I actually agree with adnds version more even if it's a bit volumous in parts and needs a better explanation of how shields work
much as this seems to be the unpopular take

>>93954451
So much wasted space.

>>93955762
Thank you, I had not seen that before.
I have yet to ascend to ODnD + Chainmail, I'm doing Adnd 1e so this helps but not all the way!

>>93956581
>this helps but not all the way!
Oh for sure, I mostly posted it because the AD&D mods are based off the Chainmail ones in some really lazy way. Actually, I guess that's in the Delta post which you probably saw since you know the table in the book needs correcting...

>>93956602
You're right, I did see that.
There's a variation in the Footprints zine 20. "Weapon type versus armor class"
I plugged that in as the temporary fix.
I'm looking at using ACKS Domains at War down the line, not certain if that whole circus needs the weapon versus armor type worked out...

>>93951422
Orcs aren't in phalanx and the party is surprised

>>93952872
Youre running regular combat rules with 100s of combatants? Is that not tedious as hell?

>>93951422
Big assumption the wizard will always have a fireball prepared. If you're rolling for wandering monsters then you will be running into groups like this much more frequently than you can get spell slots back

>>93956698
100 man at arms versus 100 orcs rolls like 1vs1.

>>93956683
>>93956732
>Orcs aren't in phalanx and the party is surprised
Do (You) samefag honestly believe that there is no level at which an AD&D party can defeat 100 orcs? Did you miss the context? In other words, are you stupid or trolling?

>>93956683
Are you the same guy who used to keep trying to troll by posting some shit about what if the level 1 party is in the wilderness and get surprised by a red dragon at 10 feet distance or some such?

>>93956804
That's not regular combat rules, that's your own version of mass combat

>>93956995
I think it would be difficult for a mid level party to do it at the frequency you are supposed to roll for wandering monsters.

>>93957621
How about you get back to us when you've actually played the games?

>>93957761
I have but in my experience most dms don't use the wandering monster rules as written

>>93951364
>>93951371
very autistic way of explaining this

>>93941815
Thanks, I'm about 5 episodes in at the moment and it's a lot of fun.
The wizards are pretty amusing.

Is AD&D osr or only original dnd?

>>93958883
AD&D is OSR.

>>93958883
OD&D, AD&D 1e, and B/X are all basically the same game.

>>93958876
Conan with a lightsaber and Chewbacca as a bff. This is the my dream character.

>>93958902
It's a cool concept; I like the setting a lot.
I'm not nitpicking it, but there's a lot of incidentally funny errors in the show that add to my enjoyment of it.
In the episode where they found a train full of "Death Flowers", they give a little girl the train at the end. Because the animators re-use the cells (justifiably, given the cost of re-animating them) you can see her leaving at the end with a carriage full of Death Flowers.

What a fun time.

I'm thinking of running a game with a central keep and a central dungeon with a wilderness surrounding the two with some encounters.

I forgot the official name for this kind of game, but any general advice for keeping players engaged with it? Make the keep as interesting as possible, keep each level of the dungeon feeling fresh and dangerous?

What do I do if they get bored and want to wander elsewhere? Turn it into a hexcrawl with randomly generated hex terrains/encounters?

>>93934822
Thundar is the absolute cliche when it comes to gonzo settings. Everyone openly brings it up. It's a bit tedious when you start noticing it.

>>93957611
NTA. Figure scaling is the standard way to do mass combat, not "his own". Gygax considered it so obvious that in the AD&D core books he mentions it in passing with a couple minor comments on how to adapt spells to it, assuming the reader is already familiar with it.

>>93956698
someone else responded to you as if they were me, but yes you can easily run a hundred combatants, you just need to roll 20d20s at a time and use the lookup tables correctly

>>93958931
>I'm thinking of running a game with a central keep and a central dungeon
>What do I do if they get bored and want to wander elsewhere?
You're so close to getting it, Anon. And yet you keep making the same mistake.

>>93958990
are you implying the players should stay in the dungeon? Hexcrawls are still osr!!!

>>93958995
The opposite, Anon. You're so close and still missing it.

>>93958931
>I forgot the official name for this kind of game
Almost-but-not-quite-D&D.

>What do I do if they get bored and want to wander elsewhere?
Play D&D.

>>93958956
First time I see it, I believe it wasn't aired in many countries in Europe.

>>93958990
>>93959074
Why are you being coy instead of just telling him your advice?

>>93959074
Keep on the Borderlands isn't D&D?

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>>93959083
maybe, or maybe it just didn't air when you were paying attention. I brought up The Herculoids once to explain plasmoids and people slightly older than me stared like I was making shit up, I showed them a picture and it meant nothing to them.

Still, whenever someone does a gonzo thing they'll always bring up Thundar. It's directly mention in Barbarians of the Aftermath and Anomalous Subsurface Environment and Barbarian Conquerors of Kanahu. There is a certain age bracket that just adores it and nothing inspired by it got big enough for everyone to give up on making their own take.

>>93959126
Herculoids were cool!

The thing with Thundarr is it was really popular, and got good ratings, but was axed after the first season due to politics at the network. A couple of execs were duking it out behind the scenes and when one lost out and was ousted, the other basically axed everything the guy had been responsible for as a farewell fuck-you. This included the entire Saturday Morning lineup, which was then replaced with cartoons that were basically just ads for the victor's primetime shows. These were basically all Happy Days spinoffs, so you got Laverne and Shirley in the Army (which replaced Thundarr) , and a Mork and Mindy cartoon, and a weird Fonzi in outer space cartoon. They all got dumped next season for sucking and dying in the ratings, but a whole generations got vaguely traumatized by whiplash from that shit.

>>93959088
NTA. Keep on the Borderlands is a module for B/X D&D by Gary Gygax. Not sure what makes you think that Anon is saying it isn't D&D.

Thoughts on this spell? Trying to port it from NetHack

Force Bolt - Level 3 MU Spell - Duration: Instant - Range: 130’ - Deal 2d12 physical damage as a beam of force strikes a single target. Save for half damage. This bolt can shatter non magical objects less than a 10’ cube made of stone or wood as well as fragile items. If a creature is killed by a force bolt beam, the creature's inventory will be subjected to the beam.

>>93959210
As a kid it blew my mind how each monster looked like a different cartoon. It probably fed my love for gonzo bullshit. That lore is super interesting, I had no idea. Thundar did get distributed in my region but I only saw those sitcom spin offs as an adult, probably in some Cracked article or some listicle about the most idiotic ideas for cartoons.

If you're looking for gonzo settings check out the Umerica setting book, it has some great takes on a post-apocaliptic USA that lost all its culture but retained the objects so people reinterpret them in bizarre ways. It's not on topic for this thread, but the setting book is just a setting.

>>93959253
Unless I'm missing something, seems weak-ish but fine for a third level spell. Perhaps closer to a second level spell in power, except I am of the school of thought that damaging spells should only be odd level.

going to put special medals around my next megadungeon and have one of the rumors be "if you collect many medals, something good might happen"
I'm torn between them doing absolutely nothing, and them being the currency for a magic gachapon chest findable on an earlyish floor that spits out 95% garbage but 5% incredible shit
thoughts?

>>93959239
Because a central dungeon surrounded by a keep and a wilderness IS Keep on the Borderlands.

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Any good premade castle maps with full interiors and garrisons etc?
I want to set a few sessions in a haunted castle but I cannot be fucked designing one by myself when I know virtually nothing about medieval architecture.

is the trove in the pdf share still working?

>>93959454
can you use it?

>>93959399
Duh?

>>93959607
NTA but anon said a game that fits Keep on the Borderlands' description isn't D&D. That's what the other anon was responding to.

>>93959635
>anon said a game that fits Keep on the Borderlands' description isn't D&D
I really don't think that that's what that Anon said or meant.

>>93959645
He probably should've been clearer then, because that's the most obvious reading of it.

>>93958962
Does anyone know where Gygax touches on this?

>>93959669
I really don't think so. Here's what I understood it to mean:

>Is KotB a game?
>Is KotB a game in which if the players wander off the map you go into crisis mode?

If your answer to those two questions is "yes", you're almost playing D&D, but not quite.

If your answer to those two questions are "no, it's a module" and "no, if they wander off the map I just keep playing D&D as before", then chances are you are actually playing D&D.

>>93959697
>Does anyone know where Gygax touches on this?
PHB 39 is one place. Pretty sure he also mentions it in the DMG, would love a page reference if someone has it. See picrel.

FWIW, I think figure scaling is great, but I think scaling up the area of fireballs when you scale figures is completely retarded and Gygax wasn't thinking straight when he typed that.

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>>93959697
>>93959717
...aaaaand picrel because of course I'm retarded.

>>93959085
Welcome to /osrg/.
Everyone hates it here.

>>93959697
>>93959717
>>93959721
>Gygax wasn't thinking straight
Or maybe I have trouble understanding High Gygaxian.

>>93959669
Using modules is a crutch and can create bad habits. It is part of the DM's job to learn to create his own dungeons, lairs, and wildernesses. If you haven't learnt to do this, you will go into crisis when players do something unexpected, so you will start to subtly railroad them --- or at least box them in --- and if you do so, you are not really playing D&D (yet).

>>93959717
>but I think scaling up the area of fireballs when you scale figures is completely retarded
huh? but it clearly says that you dont

>>93959754
>NEVER... UNLESS A FIGURE RATIO IS USED
Appears to mean that if you use 1 figure = 1 creature you don't scale spell areas, but if you use 1 figure = N creatures, you do.

It can't be that that's what he meant, but I think that that's what the text says.

Or I am stupid.

>>93959788
imagine you are using a 1:10 ratio, and you have 5 infantry models, and a wizard model.
option a) you are representing 50 men and a wizard leader
b) you are representing 50 men and 10 spellcasters as part of some fantasy warmage squad
if the wizard model is just to represent the position of the general, then his fireball is only 1 fireball
if the model is representing some iseaki mage-corps group, then their fireball attack is 10 actually fireballs. the area of a circle is pi.r^2, if you scale up feet to yards you times by three, which means the area ends up being exactly nine times large, assuming the 10 fireballs are spread out in a general pattern, you can approximate their combined attack as a single larger fireball and its all makes sense (making 20:1 scale figures slightly off, but it doesnt really matter for gameplay)
most of ad&d wargaming is clearly designed for the 1:10 ratio rather than 1:20 (as chainmail says both are good enough) due to the way you hire a seargant for every 10 men at arms, or in other words every model, which is admittedly somewhat unfortunate as 20 men would match the more historical infantry set up, but there it is

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>>93959822
>you are representing 50 men and 10 spellcasters
LOL

here's where I'm retarded. I immediately jumped to the conclusion that a spellcaster would be a hero-type standing on his own.

THANKS

>>93959788
oh, also dont forget the AND operator in that sentence, though i honestly would need to think about the effects of it but i do think it technically matters

>>93956134
what are you on about? the inside of the screen is used pretty well for a DM's screen for beginning DMs, isn't it?

>>93959703
You're so close to aping True A&D™ troll but you're not quite getting it.

>>93958974
>you just need to roll 20d20s at a time
Would actually be a good use for the randomized lists of 1-20 or other that use to be more common. You just use them 20 in a row, they're already there.

>>93959822
>making 20:1 scale figures slightly off, but it doesnt really matter for gameplay
Isn't this just compensated for by the fireball hitting twice as many guys?

I mean, going from a figure representing one wizard in 1:10 scale to ten wizards also in 1:10 scale you have to scale up the area of the spell because the wizard figure now represents 10x the casting, but going from 1:10 scale to 1:20 scale, the wizards' numbers increase just as much as their targets' numbers, so the functional balance is identical without changing the area? Am I missing something?

>>93960691
>True AD&D™
Man, those were the days. We didn't know how good we had it.

>>93960802
If I were to roll 20d20 I'd be tempted to rule that each number comes up once.

>>93959350
I'd say the latter. I'm of the opinion that false rumors shouldn't lead to nothing, but to something unexpected or dangerous.

We're on page 8, Anons. I can make a new thread but I don't have any good ideas for a TQ. Drop me a decent enough proposal and I'll do the legwork.

>>93962027
Favorite piece of /osrg/ OC from times past?

>>93962218
Great idea! Will get to it.

>>93962218
>>93962318
It would be a good idea to link to this https://osrgcontent.blogspot.com/ in case there is stuff people have forgotten about.

>NEW THREAD
>NEUER FADE
>FIL NOUVEAU
>SPAGO NUOVO
>HILO NUEVO
>ONIICHAN HAZUKASHII DESU

>>93962364
>>93962364
>>93962364
>>93962364
>>93962364

>>93959407
>I know virtually nothing about medieval architecture.
These books have many actual, historical floor plans.
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/52791
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/52274
There are more. Search for "castle" or "fortification" and sort by subject; also see the "Similar Books/Readers also downloaded link" on each book's page.

>>93959703
>>93959750
So it's not D&D if it's not a sandbox? Afaik none of the old-school editions of D&D ever state that requirement.

>>93963069
NTA, but it was the default mode of play in the early days, nobody called it a "sandbox" before modules took off in the 80s, because there was nothing to contrast it to. You were either doing it, or doing it wrong.

>>93963069
>none of the old-school editions of D&D ever state that requirement
That's because you read the old-school editions through the bias of a mind contaminated by 2etardness and WotCfaggotry. There was no concept that it could be anything else than that.

>>93963139
I mean, B1, B2 and Hommlet all came out during the 70s.

>>93963804
By modern terminology those are all "sandbox" modules.

>>93963904
But they only describe one dungeon. If the module is the extent of your prep (and Holmes implied it would be) then it's not suitable for running a sandbox.

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>>93963804
The first D&D modules were not even by TSR. Gygax initially didn't really get the idea that people might want to buy and run precooked modules. He only came around after realising there was a market for it.

The point at which TSR started churning out modules, 1978/1979 pretty much marks the transition point between the first and second phase of Arnesonian/Gygaxian D&D, and there is a clear split between the fans of the first phase (e.g. the BrOSRfags, among many) and those of the second phase (e.g. OSRICfags).

The first phase is the more experimental phase of D&D as a fantasy wargame with a Referee, and it's all about sandboxes, long-term campaigns, wargaming, mass combat, adversarial play, stupid shit like picrel, "Braunsteins" (from 1969) and so on.

The second phase is the "mature/conventional" phase of D&D as an RPG, inspired by convention play and published modules. At this point Arneson was out of the picture, Gygax was focusing of business instead of running campaigns, and everything published reflects that.

Hell, on K&KA/DF many posters even seem appreciative not only of Unearthed Arcana (lol) but even WSG, DSG, and MotP that most /osrg/fags would consider crap.

I would say that the /osrg/ culture straddles the two phases, with little to no interest in the pre-OD&D years and contempt for the post-1983 phase.

So I'd say the reference years are roughly:
BrOSR: 1969-1978
/osrg/: 1974-1983
K&KA/DF: 1979-1985

I'm sure some Anons will disagree with the above, but it's a starting point to figure out the different cultures on the OSR scene.