>>93934012
I hate how a lot of people treat the OWoD stuff online nowadays, people bitching about how it's "too edgy" and shit

>>93934031
Do they now? I have my own problems with oWoD, but "too edgy"? Where are these people and how did they come to this opinion?

I was thinking about this the other day and i wonder if you guys agree. The 13 clans all have a discipline they're master at

Banu Haqim - Clan of Assassins, the discipline of assasination, Quietus
Cappadocians - Clan of death, necromancy
Gangrel - Nature clan, can gain animal/nature abilities, Protean
Followers of Set - Inspired by REH's Set, a clan of serpentines that have Serpentis
Lasombra - Clan of Abyss/Shadows , Obtenebration
Malkavian - Clan of mental ilness, Dementation
Nosferatu - Ugly clan focused on hiding themselves with Obfuscate(Though for what I'm talking about VtR's Nightmare works better)
Ravnos - Gypsies - illusion, Chimerstry
Salubri - Clan of healers, Obeah
Toreador - Artists and attractive, the center of attention, Presence
Tzimisce - Clan obsessed with shaping flesh, Vicissitude
Ventrue - Social manipulators at the top of social hierarchy, Dominate

But then you have Brujah. their associated discipline would be Potence but Brujah's thing isn't just being brutes. They're supposed to be philosopher - kings with short temper but they don't have a discipline associated with it. So they don't fit the above list. But who does? True Brujah, they're about time control and mastery of Temporis

>>93934012

LF help with a Giovanni vampires italian restaurant name for a game tonight.

Here's my best shot.

The Jovian Stakehouse

Thoughts?

File: Puppet-Master-Brian-LeBlanc.jpg (53 KB, 407x566)

53 KB JPG

I have weirdest deja vu about this one.

>>93934122
from what I've seen it's mostly forum posters (and I've seen some reddit screencaps too) who complain about Ravnos, or the Black Dog supplements, or talk about how "heckin problematic" the old stuff was

>>93934641
So everyone who isn't on this niche corner of a niche website?

File: Spoiler Image (35 KB, 338x350)

35 KB JPG

>>93934012
>Feel free to mention other splat's equivalent weaknesses!

You know, the V20 splat for Lore of the Clans had some bad writing. It was lacking something, I felt...

>>93934031
People also complain about oWoD in here, they just complain about how weird, wacky and gonzo it is instead of how edgy it is. Lots of people in /wodg/ have expressed a dislike of all of the 'punk' elements of oWoD and seem to prefer WoD/CofD as a deadly serious hyper-gothic personal horror experience.

>>93934750
Gothic punk is really cool, and I think it works very well, I like how angry of a game Werewolf is

>>93934806
But you can't really mention it without people bitching about the tribes, or being grossed out by the breeding, or complaining that the premise isn't rooted in traditional werewolf media, or how Pentex and the evil of the Wyrm is so absurdly over the top. Not even on /wodg/, or especially not on /wodg/. The only aspect of oWoD that escapes regular criticism is VtM and even then, even /wodg/ regulars bitch about certain clans and certain aspects of the setting for being too punk or making no sense. Typically, Anarchs, Brujah and Assamites.

>>93934180
Bruja are built to be superhuman, rather than a mage like the rest
Super strength, Super senses, Super durability
Think more warrior poets than men locked in libraries

>>93934180
the whole philosophers thing the brujah have going on never made sense in the first place and tends to read more like writers trying to add depth where there isn't any

>>93934557
Did some rewriting but felt my own limitations in regards to game design while adapting some gifts. Just me benoaning my own shortcomings, sort of.
In regards to Dire Wolf and an inhospitable, primal nature red in blood and claw and all that. I see that one and it is a cool concept. As said, they did not have much space to work with. Still vey happy with Forsaken in Rome. Thanks again. I just love the pack mechanics.

>>93934180
I've always associated Brujah with Celerity even though Toreador and Assamites also have it. Because they're brawlers and quick to anger

>>93934180
i think that's because brujah are meant to be characterised in large part by what they have lost so presence is meant to be a sad throwback to their time as philosopher kings where they presumably used it in philosophy debates before the clan got "broken" and turned into brutes which is probably also why it's only clan where a character specializing in a in-clan is seen as weird and outside of the stereotype like nobody will look twice if a toreador mainly uses celerity of auspex instead, but a brujah with all their doots in presence is noteworthy similairly to a tremere without thaumatugry or nosferatu without obfuscate

of course white wolf did not manage the supposed philosopher kings part of brujah well at all due to them always writing brujah in power as either cruel tyrants worse than the opposition they usually fight against or urgh baali pawns. but of course that wasn't around when they first designed the clans

>>93935307
>Still vey happy with Forsaken in Rome. Thanks again.
Who is it you think you're replying to?

>>93935317
I can kind of see them being associated with Celerity, True Brujah are super cold and emotionless with time stop abilities while Brujah are the emotional ones and the ability to become very fast. Still though I don't think Brujah can be associated with one discipline as much as others, including True Brujah

>>93934031
I'm with the other anons, too edgy is not one of the reasons I hear people complaining.
Wi the exception I guess of some people about WtA ("Too metal"), but then it's been like that since the release of the game and those people just ignored it.

>>93932182
To add to what anon was saying: on top of helping with dealing with workload, having other players take notes can be a really interesting exercice in comparing how the shared narrative differentiate from player to player. I'm very fussy on note taking myself, and it always strikes when comparing notes with other players how differently we can prioritize - how one player's background noise event can turn into another's significant focal point.
Useful for tailoring the campaign, at the very least.

>>93935302
It was there since inception with Critias and Menele. And I think it works in that narrative attemps to show fall from grace. If anything it's the Troile legend tying said fall to the blood yet again instead of both individuals and sociology that tends to bother me.

>>93934180
I think you're being slightly disingenuous in not lumping at the very least Toreador and Ventrue with Brujah if the complaint is having no "mastered" discipline.
Thaumaturgy excepted (the worm was in the fruit all along), unique disciplines emerged along development of the game as a cheap and easy - *efficient* - way to differentiate clans, often by people that treated clans as glorified D&D classes (Assamites = assassin, Salubri = paladin, Ravnos = rogue, Daughters of Cacophony = bards, etc...).
Ultimately, I think they're cool, but cheap in the sense that they're all too often a crutch to a clan lacking a strong identity as a social construct, which shold be the aim.

>>93935443
Ah sorry, fucked up my writing.

>>93934902
Thats normal. VTM was the flagship from the start, so everything else has always looked at from the perspective of already existing VTM fans.

>>93935598
Just finished Bloodlines again but as Malkavian. God its amazing.

>>93934180
>They're supposed to be philosopher
Healthy mind, healthy body.
They are supposed to represent the philosopher of old times who would read books and talk to other people at local city plaza at same time they're exercising their delicious bodies.

File: s-l1200.jpg (165 KB, 761x1060)

165 KB JPG

>>93934299
At least they didn't ban Mind Rape. Everyone is happy. Or at least should be. Some people are complaining the naming change even though this doesn't affect the old card at all.

>>93935466
just cuz the philosopher's angle existed day one doesn't mean it wasn't a poorly thought out attempt to add depth

>>93936078
Eh, the angry greeks angle is plenty thematic with parallels to actual history, but vtm didn't really handle it very well.
Nearly everything related to the brujah was handled poorly. For Example: The True-brujah would have been great as the survivors of carthage out for revenge(you could make their coldness flaw a result of their "fire"/hope extinguishing when cathage fell), but instead the retconned a whole new antedeluvian.

>>93936145
fair enough. i suppose i could see it work if the whole phylosophy angle was tied in more with their constant need to justify all the destruction their rage brings forth rather then just being tacked on so the punk clan has an excuse for being shitbags

>>93936078
Fair enough.
My point was more that it isn't something added, it was a main basic defining point.
You think it doesn't work, I think the execution has issues, but the premise holds some promise. To each their own.

>>93933102
From my corner of the pond, the game has found its niche, despite a *very* strong rejection of the aesthetic direction that remains to this day.
My take at first was that there was no demand, the books stood unused in the local club for a while. Then lockdown happened, /tg games became the new fad, and I noticed people playing it, new and old heads, just not at the club, so I took it upon myself to organize some games.
Now we have co-habitation between V5 and Revised, depending on which aspect/tone of the setting we want to underline. I've long been a big proponent of different rules depending on the kind of games (neonate/elder/etc..) we want to run, instead of a singular all encompassing ones. And this has very much comforted me in my opinion.

>>93936225
ah, i wasn't referring to the philosopher's thing as a bad addition more so as poorly tacked onto the clan with barely an attempt made to integrate it into the barely contained road rage berserkers that takes up most of the brujah's identity

>>93935466
Nah, I think Toreador mastery/association of Presence make complete sense, they're the beautiful ones/artists and always at the center of attention. Similarly with Ventrue, at the top of social hierarchy Dominate is very fitting for them
Both of those clans have a discipline that is basically their clan description in discipline form, and so do other clans with the exception of Brujah

>>93936378
I can't say I agree.
For all three Brujah, Ventrue, Toreador, I think it's the triptych of discplines that defines, not any single one taken individually.
Presence matters no less and is no less significant for Ventrue than dominate happens to be. Or fortitude.
Similarly presence matters very much for Brujah, just as it matters for the other two clans. They're the rabble-rousers, the ones that start movements, inspire riots, and make those explosive political ideas take hold in others. They're the revoltionnary flamme in both destructive rage and contagious, constructive spirit.
They're the embodiement of the sentiment shared through the ages that anger is the most acceptable negative affect (to speak in Spinozist terms) ,in that at least it elicits action. Or, to quote St. Augustine:
>Hope has two daughters, anger and courage. They are both lovely.

>>93936291
I think it's similar to - and to a point emergent from -the Anarch issue in some respect in that the Brujah are never given any semblance of an acceptable accomplishment in the setting. There's nothing built. So the rage is backed in from the system via the clan flaw, but there's very little narratively that comes to balance back the philosopher aspect.
Weird how, Menele and Critias are almost too perfectly examplary of what the clan was supposed to be (especially the former with its unbelievable 9 Humanity yet capacity to destroy a whole city in a volcanic eruption in a fit of rage).

>>93936512
to be fair we don't know what his humanity was back then we only know it's "now" (in quotation marks as v20 retconned him to be a path follower) humanity 9 after spending centuries as a benevolent patron of the native american tribes around him and their current community

>>93933291
>>93936225
At least the spinoffs like the choice of games text adventures, the Coterie of NY trilogy, Swansong, Bloodhunt and Bloodlines 2 do/will do well right?

>>93936612
the choice of games seemed to have ended on a stinker and there is as far as i know no new one in the works

>>93935598
Truly the Second City reborn, in awe of the sheer praxis

>>93936612
Very little of worth to say.
I don't really like VNs myself, but my friends that do tell the New York trilogy was pretty decent.
I think the interactive fiction is kinda hit or miss, but the good ones are totally worth it if you're into the genre.
Swansong is a niche/hardcore game in a way. It's very much a 7/10 game from a studio that attempted interesting things, but failed some, and what it succeeded in will only interest a specific subset of players. I personally enjoyed my time with it and only wish there was a little more polish. There's love in that game, which makes me sad how it ended in the public eye.
Bloodhunt I can't say, I'm too old school, don't play a multiplayer game that has no private servers. My limited take from second hand comments is that it was decent but failed to capture its public.
Bloodlines 2... we'll see. I commend the team for what they're attempting with that dilogue system, but everything they've shown of the writing so far is worrying. I think keeping the "Bloodlines 2" monicker is going to hurt the reception of the game, as everyone will judge the game accordingly (granted, Swansong suffered a similar issue anyway, to a point).

>>93935598
of course lacroix is a orange cat

File: file.png (540 KB, 708x533)

540 KB PNG

Thoughts on the Path of Harmony?

>>93936884
Good 2 is completely undercut by the bad 1, pointless, awful, shitty, just go Typhon

>>93936884
too c00l for the sabbat, kinda snowflakey and it kinda steps on the paws of the woof a little too much but to be honest i would like to see what it's golconda/ Azhi Dahaka version is

>>93936884
Simply too powerful of a moral code to let live to the final nights. A Sabbat with powerful Harmonists and Salubri as the third pillar of the sect would become the truest midnight society.

>>93934364
Yeah the writing constraints took chunks out of what was already there and I can feel some of those. A lot of it was bloat though and 2e is still bloated as fuck.
I'm working on a big rewrite for Forsaken in my spare time and one of the things on the docket is returning Primal Form in some way to the Predator Kings. I've got a couple of ideas.

File: file.png (197 KB, 645x360)

197 KB PNG

>>93936908
As in SIns 2 and 1? Yeah the number 1 sin including vandalism's kinda silly, but I feel like it could be slightly modified to make it so it's a matter of intent.
>>93936919
>too c00l for the sabbat, kinda snowflakey and it kinda steps on the paws of the woof a little too much
It's definitely got a good bit of snowflake in it, I can agree with that.
>>93936920
>A Sabbat with powerful Harmonists and Salubri as the third pillar of the sect would become the truest midnight society.
The reason I was looking at this path was actually for a Salubri Antritibu NPC

The funniest thing about this path imo is how most of them got obliterated after trying to go against the Sabbat's treatment of mortals. You know, attempting great societal change. You know, the one thing the path is explicitly against on a fundamental level

>>93934750
>a deadly serious hyper-gothic personal horror experience.

You can dislike the gonzo and punk without wanting a too serious woe is me circlejerk.

>>93935302
The writers were pretty left leaning and if you're familiar at all with capital-L Left literature you know it has a whole wing dedicated to justifying violence and resentment.
They literally just turned that into a Clan and someone was self-aware enough to give them a tragic angle.

>>93937047
>i don't want punk in my gothic punk game
>i also don't want gothic in my gothic punk game
So what do you actually want out of WoD (or CofD, since you give the impression that you vastly prefer CofD)?

>>93936884
Very weird LARP rules based on a fundamentally flawed understanding of what nature is and does and the practitioner's place in it.
I'm reminded of the mut dog in Discworld, trying to play wolf with senseless idealized representations, only to be slaughtered by the real deal once confronted to it.

>>93937069
More than extremes exist

>>93935466
>Useful for tailoring the campaign, at the very least.

I find the idea of using exp rewards (which do add up very quickly) to make your players take notes for your own interest or to slight ease the burden GMing to be repugnant.

Not everyone is going to have the time for it IRL, and others may just find the idea tedious or like "homework" for what's supposed to be good fun. If it was an elective thing sure, but tying it to a hard mechanical reward is a massive Red Flag for me, honestly.

>>93936512
i don't think it's an issue of lacking victories that hold the brujah or the anarchs back and more that writers don't seem to have a very narrow view of how both of them are supposed to be.
all anarchs are either camarilla sub sects or the la free states (let's ignore the fact that by most definitions the sabbat are anarchs cuz they don't count).
all brujah have to be activists or trouble makers (either thinking but never acting or acting and never thinking).
and it's this hyperfocuss on what they are rather then why they are and what else they could be that's holding them back

>>93937060
"we suck now but we used to be cool" isn't tragic when the glory times read more like wishfull thinking that was asspulled into reality

>>93937069
This >>93937078. Also the gothic wasn't where I took issue. It's the "deadly serious" and "personal horror".

Basically, don't over simplify.

>>93936973
Was that exactly how it went? It always sounded to me like it was the larger Sabbat that initiated against them. Either way, it sounds like a path that would have a lot of off-the-grid packs. As well, for its snowflakiness, always felt a bit odd it was formalized by a Brujah idealist. It's like they couldn't figure out how to make the Beast morally okay, so they shoved it together. I'd retool it to be a bit more chaotic, about redirecting the Beast from cruelty towards breaking down the illegitimate laws of Caine and Seth, embracing the tumult and vitality of nature.

>>93937157
Can you elaborate on that? I'm struggling to understand what you want out of WoD and/or CofD.

>>93934180
I don't agree with that assessment at all. Clans have three in-clan disciplines for a reason. Ventrue get no inherent bonuses to dominate compared to Lasombra or Tremere.

You can have a Ventrue with more Presence than Dominate easily, ruling through a cult of personality and infectious charisma. Or a Toreador shut-in artist focusing far more on Auspex. Even clans with a unique discipline don't need to focus on it. One of the best Lasombra NPCs I've ever encountered had zero dots in Obtenebration. Having one discipline define the clan needlessly narrows their scope.

File: Marauder_Avatar.jpg (315 KB, 1024x1547)

315 KB JPG

I'm considering having Marauders as the focus of my next Mage campaign, what are some takes on Morbitiy/Jhor or Clarity focused Marauders I should consider? I'm very tempted to have an Innsmouth themed Marauder that turns people into fishmen conspiring to drag him to Dagon's altar, constantly on the run and escaping the nightmare.

>>93937078
Quite clearly, but then the original aesthetic of the game was drenched in high-contrats extremes, from the black and white of the art to the fundamentalist takes of factions to the hard edge of the fictional world.
I can understand feeling warry of how easy it can fall into parody - of its objects or itself - but then past a point it's difficult to reject the execution without rejecting the very idea.

>>93937111
>I find the idea of using exp rewards to be repugnant.
Fair enough. I don't know that I would go as far as "repugnant" though I've never done that myself. I was only talking about the usefulness of other players taking notes. Which happens without me forcing it.
Personally, I'm a big proponent of suppressing XP altogether. That fake progression in power dangling as a carrot in front of players is an arterfact that has outlived its usefuleness and is just a way to satisfy a munchkin appetite. I'd rather we could work ways to record more granular qualitative changes that aren't constant additive power growth.

>>93937112
There's kind of a contradiction here:
>i don't think it's an issue of lacking victories that hold the brujah or the anarchs back
>it isn't tragic when the glory times read more like wishfull thinking that was asspulled into reality
See, it's hard to take the Brujah seriously when they have nothing to show for being philosophers - neither in game systems, nor in narrative. Ventrue are assholes but they have the powers that go with it and the narrative accomplishments (which they should only really have in parasitic form if they were to keep to the meaning of their namesake). Toreador are full of characters that fits art-related archetypes.
Brujah has some interesting starting characters - Tyler, Critias - but all too often feels like a randomly-embraced clan. More than any I think.
There's a very bourgeois left-leaning - in that offers sympathy, but ultimately very centrist reading of revolutionnaries as impotent on display.

>>93937112
>"we suck now but we used to be cool" isn't tragic when the glory times read more like wishfull thinking that was asspulled into reality

Couldn't have said it better myself.

My approach to make the Brujah interesting in play is to make them crabs in a bucket. For a clan that usually won't shut up about liberty and power structures, wrongthink is shut down hard. Like embraces like so you get a bunch of pissed off zealots circle-jerking over the same talking points for centuries. The best thing any Brujah they can do is climb out and become their own person.

The Clan's failures past and present are precisely because they claim enlightenment but hate any disagreement, and pick moronic hills to die on. However, the clan has produced some true legends, all of which are successful because they reject the carthage utopianist circlejerk. Even if they still use those guys to their own ends (ie, Smiling Jack) they are not ruled by them or bound by them. The best Brujah go their own way however difficult, fulfilling the "mighty warrior who truly believes in something" ideal far better than the general "revolutionary" body of the clan.

>>93937270
Okay but that game and the other game are different games. So, y'know, liking one over the other is probably about the fact they're fucking different.

>>93937270
>I'd rather we could work ways to record more granular qualitative changes that aren't constant additive power growth.

An interesting idea but also very difficult to actually make in a way that doesn't create a worse play experience. I think exp remains the default because players like the feeling of accomplishment that comes from growing stronger, and it's much easier to keep track of on everyone's part than other methods of character advancement. I'd be interested in hearing any ideas though.

File: Pass-Through-Shadow-Paolo(...).jpg (47 KB, 406x567)

47 KB JPG

>>93936039
Yeah, I feel like that's a reasonable compromise between what players want and what Paradox permits. VtES doesn't really attract "investors", so nobody minds that this will drive the price down, but I've seen some people complain about the way the information was conveyed as a part of the new starter spoilers - getting hyped for new card and seeing reprint of what they already have.
Besides that we now know all of new starter except for one final crypt card.

File: Harmony.png (153 KB, 800x290)

153 KB PNG

>>93937164
>Was that exactly how it went?
Looking back at it, it seems like it was a mix of both
>Either way, it sounds like a path that would have a lot of off-the-grid packs
Yeah, the NPC I had in mind is, for the moment, a solitary nomad.
> always felt a bit odd it was formalized by a Brujah idealist
It was? I don't recall seeing that anywhere, but I've probably just missed a book or a specific paragraph.
>I'd retool it to be a bit more chaotic, about redirecting the Beast from cruelty towards breaking down the illegitimate laws of Caine and Seth, embracing the tumult and vitality of nature.
That just sounds like the Path of Paradox

>>93937292
My bad if I misread, which game are we talking about? Because the posts I followed clearly mentionned WoD, which is what I was talking about.

>>93937318
One thing I liked about The Burning Wheel system is that skills progressed as you used them... and past a certain level they would start going down if you didn't use them for too long, which I think would be very interesting for Vampire. Thematically fits.
Along the years, I've experimented with a lot of systems. One that made for interesting accelerated time-skips games was a somewhat abstract model that would pit vampire power vs human skill - with blood powers boosted from the base VtM game. What happened is that powers offered easy way out of mostly everything if you were willing to pay the price, but the more you used them, the more they grew, and the more your human skill pool shrank. And building that back demanded interactions that treated NPCs as equals. which was more and more difficult.
Overall it was too abstract and too specialized(no too mention too raw... I'm probably not a good designer) for most players at the club, but I do think we got some interesting games out of that.

>>93937112
>"we suck now but we used to be cool" isn't tragic when the glory times read more like wishfull thinking that was asspulled into reality

Yeah, they're stupid to think that, but they do.

>>93937270
that's not really a contradiction. a fall from glory days doesn't work if the glory days feel fabricated but that doesn't mean the brujah need glory days to work, if anything i think the brujah would work better if the glory days were just wishful thinking and they did something else for the tragic element of the clan.

>>93937282

what i'd do with the clan is lean into the self-destructive tendencies of the clan as well but give it a more tragic bent. that the clan was designed to be forces of nature eternally slumbering until awakened by the spilling of blood. their rage both aiding in this purpose but also preventing the brujah from doing anything else. their philosophical history being the result of them desperately trying to justify the violence and destruction their rage brings, a necessity if they are to justify their own existence as individuals and a clan. the greatest act of rebellion any brujah has ever committed was waking up in the evening to go live their own unlife.

but otherwise they're pretty similar to what you described

>>93937164
>>93937411
Honestly the more I think about it, the more I feel like the Path of Harmony is a reinvented, simplified form of what the Liabon use for morality. Just replace Aye and Orun with Conscience and Instinct

>No Salubri gf to eye fuck her third eye
I am NOT okay.

>>93937604
It wouldn't be a bad plot, to suggest there were a group of Laibon that fell in with the Sabbat, or leading a Harmonist pack out of the West into SSA as refugees.

>>93936884
It’s basically the Buddhist equivalent for Cainites. On the more practically side, it allows you to be a sociopath for noble reasons. I love it. The reason I always pick it when I play a Sabbat character. Once. :(

>>93937678
Imagine the bleeding
>Has to constantly activate Fortitude to not go blind, making the eye bleed even more

>>93937716
That and Inner Focus. They could definitely work together, as they're two of a small amount of paths that embrace the Beast for non-ideological reasons.

in practice what exactly is the difference between (pre v20) via hydron and honorable Accord?
>be loyal to your group
>like for real both paths have several sins related to being not loyal enough
>do all the silly rituals of your group
>don't break your word
>don't be a backstabbing bitch
>work towards your group goals

struggling to see why via hydron needed to be it's own path

Easy way to win all combat as a mage

“Spontaneous kidney stones!” and the vampire rolls over in bloody agony

NO man can withstand that level of pain, and the complications that follow

>>93937865
>Overly simplistic reduction
>Gets the name wrong twice
You're at least a 7 on the Via Niggeranus

>>93936612
>Coterie of NY
Good, cringe as you would expect but good
>>93936752
Using in you own words
>Bloodhunt
>There's love in that game, which makes me sad how it ended in the public eye.

By the way, to all your people out there: go play BLOODHUNT, it's a free and nice game with an amazing soundtrack.

>>93936696
There's a werewolf one coming, isn't there?

>>93937865
for fucks sake please read the actual path lore
The character does not know the hierarchy of sins for any path (including Humanity!) So, a path follower's behavior is based on the ethics of their path. And the ethics of the road of the Hive are about being a "drone" that commits infernal atrocities for their "nest" with your nest and thus the object of your loyalty being hard coded as being your sire and then the other followers of the path. While the Path of the Honorable Accord is about being an oath-bound samurai knight hybrid with a master being completely optional

>>93938054
Let's face it, paths were just invented for people who wanted to play cool power fantasies and didn't want to roleplay wrestling with morality while they were power tripping so WW gave them a system that rewarded them for playing whatever sort of asshole they wanted to play. There's no difficult decisions with paths, it's just a case of choose the path that suits your particular flavour of psychopath the best.

>>93938226
that also the in-world reason for paths btw they were invented so Murder McRapeaddict could stop himself from succumbing to the beast (instead of just y'know not murder-raping every choirboy he could get his hands on)

>>93934012
What are some cool or interesting dungeon crawl locations for a VtM game? Next session is going to be my coterie sneaking into and fighting in a big drug lab that is also full of tzimisce creations. Looking for inspiration or just all-around awesome stuff from other people’s chronicles. Last time my group did something like this they snuck into a water treatment plant that was being used as a front for drug manufacturing.

>>93938226
I'd be a little more charitable and say Paths were a bad attempt at rectifying the problem of how poorly humanity is implemented. The hierarchy of sins being very milquetoast morals applied rigidly rather than anything actually measuring how "human" someone is acting.

VTDA's Roads were an improvement on the idea, but I still find it not quite hitting the mark.

>>93938378
For modern nights? You're going to want something expansive but remote enough where you don't get half of the local police department responding to what sounds like a small war going down.

Hidden underground lairs are always good. Setite Temples, Nosferatu Warrens, old world catacombs. Countryside Estates are another good one, never underestimate the crazy shit rich people can have built into their house and property. WACO style compounds are another good option for a larger dungeon.

Also, were you the anon a while back who had GM's block?

>>93938471
Yeah thats me. I post here pretty reguarly. First time running Wod and I feel the need to double check lots of things, get advice and fish for ideas.

>>93938378
VtM really isn't a good system for dungeon crawling. But if you insist - abandoned industrial brownfields, catacombs of Paris (or similar vast underground of other cities), favelas.

>>93938378
while the other anons are covering classic dungeon running i want to throw in that the urban fantasy setting also allows you to go full ocean 11 and turn your "dungeons" into heists

what if you need a file from the police station?, a feter from a guy who died in a high security prison? or the heart of a setite elder that is kept in a casino

>>93938378
played outlast? because something like an asylum that has been overrun by mutated and possessed lunatics sounds very VtMish like I can already see the black and white art before me of the mad men eating people and posing with machetes or something

>>93937338
I only saw people complaining about Black Chantry not showing this new card and change at VEKN forum. Aside from that, everything seems fine. This cardgame is so niche it's almost impossible for new blood to get interested. And when I say "new blood", I mean younger people that will actually hold this game up after all 90s people die out.
Getting back to this game is so weird because even though I'm meeting some new people, they're same old people who never went away. We can talk about my old VTES friends, old stories and gossips. Feels like time stopped and this game is just surviving out of sheer willpower from old fanbase.

>>93937180
I don't really "want" anything out of the setting. It has things I like, and things that make me roll my eyes. Those parts I cut out, keeping the stuff I like and filling in the stuff I didn't with new material.

I take issue with the tendency to paint these games as if they have to have some very specific tone that never shifts. I don't want things to be super silly and ungrounded to the point where the players struggle to take anything seriously. At the same time, a humorless experience that only cares about how much everything sucks and it's a race to the bottom where nothing can be gained without sacrifices greater than what was gained sounds completely awful. Things should be dark and serious, but that does not mean you can't have the odd bit of humor, or of fun action. The contrast makes the dark moments darker and the entire experience feel more genuine.

Which of these organizations would bankroll/sponsor a group of hunters, psychics, and sorcerers?
>Arcanum
>Society of St.Leopold
>SAD
>NWO

>>93938816
Can you explain which things you like?

>>93938844
Arcanum.

>>93938844
Arcanum is the best bet. SAD or another govt entity is also in the runnings. Society of Leopold would only do it if the sorcerers were doing god approved magic (real thing).

>>93938844
the SAD turned into Project Twilight after absorbing parts of other letter agencies which is what you are describing and is bankrolled by the technocrats, the camarilla and pentex

>There aren’t any U.S. intelligence subdivisions, even classified ones, officially known as “Project Twilight” — that’s just the nickname that stuck. “Project Twilight” includes paraintelligence departments from multiple agencies, such as the Department of Defense, the National Security Agency (NSA), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the FBI Special Affairs Department, and even secret projects within the Center for Disease Control and Department of the Interior. The nickname comes from agents darkly joking that going on a mission was like living in the “Twilight Zone,” though the nickname brings different connotations to younger agents.

>Not all agents in Project Twilight are sorcerers, but many field agents are. It’s much easier to fight rowdy supernaturals with a wider variety of tools at the government’s disposal. And that’s how many Project Twilight sorcerers are viewed: disposable

>Many of the higher ups answer to different masters entirely. The Camarilla, Technocracy, Pentex, and others all have their fingers in the paraintelligence divisions to suit their own goals, which often align with keeping the public unaware of the supernatural. Conversely, agents can never get too good at rooting out the supernatural in their own organizations; the supernaturals involved in the agencies won’t let them

and they have both psychics and classic sorcerers althought the former are seen are more useful in the field
(all quotes from m20 sorcerer)
the Society of Leopold would burn psychics on the spot and kill all sorcerers that don't learn only their approved theurgy paths AFTER being marked as so called judas witch (it's a merit you have to buy)
and the Arcanum is against hunting monsters they want to study them without direct contact

>>93937716
>>93937740
I think personally what draws me to Harmony, and this definitely applies to self-focus too, is how it forces the character to have a decently nuanced reason to be Sabbat and not just fuck off somewhere else. Of course, that particular option is one that alot of vamps would choose, so if someone on those paths are in the Sabbat, they probably have a well thought out reason as to why.

>>93938952
Project Twilight seems like the best bet, taking this into account and the other information from M20 Sorcerer. It seems likely that a higher up, likely working for the Technocracy, decided that having some disposable assets in the form of PIs was a good enough use of their time and money, even better when they don't know they're working for the government
And when they feel the PIs have done enough, that's when some Men in Black can show up and clean up the loose ends

File: gowron.jpg (425 KB, 975x741)

425 KB JPG

I need your creative help and very cool opinions.

I'm planning on running a H;tV game sometime soon to people who have never played it.
Planning on a simple, short story that's literally just
>The PCs are friends
>On of the PCs has this borderline NEET sibling/child that suddenly starts going out late and dressing up in ways they never did before, as well as being more secretive about what they do.
>Turns out this sibling/child is the newly minted ghoul of a vampire
And beyond that I'm leaving it open ended to see what they do with the fact vampires are real and one of those blood-suckers corrupted their relative.

I'm trying to come up with things this vampire would demand of his ghoul, things that can ideally stand out as odd or concerning to the players and which could be used to connect the dots.
I'm thinking this vampire is relatively newly minted too so this relative is his only ghoul and he doesn't really have much going for him in terms of influence or allies, making it a nice, self-contained problem.

Maybe he has her work some sort of bad job to give him money? prostitution seems like too low of a fruit and too cheap.
Maybe she's just trying to do two regular jobs at once (day job and night job), working herself to the bone and evidently not spending any of that money on herself?
Maybe she takes care of some things for the vampire? I can't see her as the burying bodies type at that point of the story but maybe she runs some esoteric errands?
The ghoul is convinced she's in-love with him and thinks he loves her back (genders aren't set in stone, I'll let the players create the relative NPC and the vampire will just be the opposite gender, same character otherwise) so the willingness to do just about anything is there, but capability despite everything would only go so far.

Would appreciate some input dudes

>>93938378
The Underground City of Seattle

>>93938816
I've always seen WOD as a dark urban fantasy drama with dark comedy elements.

>>93938976
I don't think it even has to be too complex, just different priorities. Look at Vasantasena, or that one blonde, built-for-BNC Ventrue bimbo: they just prioritize freedom and authenticity above all else, and are willing to struggle to find peers for it, rather than give up and join the Camarilla. That said, they're both OG Anarchs.

File: vagabondmystic.jpg (70 KB, 358x500)

70 KB JPG

>>93938813
>Getting back to this game is so weird because even though I'm meeting some new people, they're same old people who never went away.
See that's the part I like, if you need to take break for whatever reason, you can always come back and it's as if you were gone for two weeks rather than two years.
Also we are getting some new people locally, they are not exactly "a new generation" though, more like 30 or 40-something with history of other card games or wargaming. But then we're already big enough to have people playing the game in semi-public space on weekly basis, have active Prince for the city and have dedicated guy making posters. Cities where the community is four old grey men that can shedule maybe one game a month the outlook for the future has to be pretty grim.

>>93939319
Sound good.
If they're completely fresh hunters then you run the risk of them just assuming it's a regular deadbeat boyfriend, so while this probably isn't a problem for meta reasons (you're telling them to make a key NPC, they're going to know that that NPC will be plot-relevant) it'd be good to have something like burying bodies that's explicitly illegal that the PCs will feel obligated to step in over, rather than something like just working 110hr weeks or stripping that's theoretically permissible.

>>93939483
>BNC
Big nosferatu cock?

>>93939685
Yeah

>>93939717
Weird, I thought most nosferatu lost their cocks. Just like their hair.

>>93939762
It's probably a benefit of Rugged Bad Looks.

>>93939319
I think I remember this one. I think you have the bases pretty loaded for hooks that could get the PC incensed. However, to make sure that they don't go down a false lead and assume it's mundane, some suggestions.
>Key NPC gets more pale and sickly looking as time goes on, due to the semi-nocturnal schedule, lack of sleep, being worked to the bone, and being fed on somewhat regularly. Take notes from how Lucy is described in Dracula when the count begins bleeding her.
>Once the PCs know there's a boyfriend/girlfriend involved, have every attempt to locate them meet to odd ends. Investigation only leads to someone matching the description/name given having been reported missing or even declared legally dead 1-5 years ago.
>They meet a previous "lover" of the vampire who has since been cast aside who may be willing to tell them a bit about the skeletons in their closet. If the vampire wouldn't be so careless as to leave this loose of an end, have them find his/her grieving family who is CONVINCED the vampire killed their child.

Which clans have the highest percentage of femboys?
Other than Tzis and Toreador, of course.

>>93940888
Ravnos and Baali

>>93940888
Nosferatu
>HAHAHA now you are bald and ugly (pleonasm)

>>93940888
Malkavians, believe it or not.
CHECK’D

Hi, it's >>93938844 again. Should I use HtV for the more mundane player characters or H5?

>>93941096
In terms of raw gameplay it goes
HtV > Hunter's Hunted > H5.

However because HtV is nWoD you'll need to re-learn some things and do some light homebrew to make oWoD hunter groups into Compacts and Conspiracies.

>>93941096
If they aren't acting as Hunters? Use the CofD core book. That's what it's for.

>>93940888
Trem and set

>>93941246
Would that also require some homebrewing like >>93941140 said? I'm a noob to WoD and I don't really know all the ins and outs

>>93941308
... legitimate question, do you know that there are basically three different core rules between oWoD, nWoD, and WoD5?

>>93941448
Well, yes. But I was under the impression that they were forward and backward compatible with each other, at least broadly speaking

File: c1urmlhp3g4z.jpg (46 KB, 280x403)

46 KB JPG

>>93940913
made me think of a Nosferatu version of pic related
>You are bald!
>HAHAHA!
>(He is ugly!)

>>93941627
There's a certain degree of fundamental difference between owod and nwod in terms of nwod not having a 'difficulty' system

>>93941308
What are you trying to do with it? There may be stuff scattered throughout the various splats like Minor Templates that can do what you want as well, like if you want people who have powers but aren't full splat members.

I'd note that you can also use the core book as a generic system for all kinds of campaigns.

oWoD and 5th don't have a mortals core book, BTW. They kept that "each splat is functionally its own game" thing from oWoD that was one of the big changes when nWoD first launched.

>>93941688
CofD adjusts difficulty by adding or removing dice from the pool based on circumstances instead of telling you a different number on the die counts as a success.

Suggestions for the paradigm of a mage the ascension character based on the cooks at a waffle house.

>>93942050
Might makes right. Power is an extension of the will, and that is most obviously shown in willingness to engage in pointless violence. You have been chosen by a higher power and given a chance to prove yourself. Life and Forces, Maybe Mind to influence the emotions of your enemies. The path to Ascension is proving yourself and remaining strong against all who would question your will.

>>93941627
Eh, kinda. They're close enough that you can do it, but it will take effort translating abilities, powers, etc. Some attributes are different as well, plus the way skills are organized is different.

>>93940900
>>93940913
>>93940932
>>93941292
Only Venchads are immune to the femboy curse.

File: IMG_6421.jpg (118 KB, 1105x1586)

118 KB JPG

>>93939483
Yeah, it’s a pretty underutilized aspect of the sabbat I feel.

I feel like a Pack consisting of a Self-Focus Ductus, a Harmonist Priest, someone on Honourable Accord, and someone younger on Humanity would probably be a pretty interesting angle. I wonder what their initiation rites would be

>>93941916
I want to run a paranormal investigation chronicle and I was really taken by the content in the M20 Sorcerer book, but I also wanted to include something in case someone didn't want to play a Sorcerer or a Psychic, just a dude with a gun and a passion for putting vampires back in the ground

>>93942529
HtV is pretty focused on teamwork and tactics/planning type of operations, and tier 1 play is local cell type of stuff. While Tier 2 is regional Compacts and 3 is global conspiracies.

The CofD core book actually has a bunch of minor supernatural power Merits, like Clairvoiyance, Laying on Hands, Psychometry, Telekinesis, and being able to accidentally steal people's good fortune.
https://codexofdarkness.com/wiki/Merits,_Mortal_(2nd_Edition)

Minor Templates are often, but not necessarily, people who have access to a limited amount of power from a splat, though there are also several that exist independent of splats. Like how Vampires have Ghouls and Dhampir, Changelings have the Fae-Touched, Mages have Proximi, and so on.
https://codexofdarkness.com/wiki/Mortals_and_Lesser_Templates

>>93938874
I feel like you're fishing for something so you can pull a gotcha of some kind. But I'll try to answer as best as I can.

For the sake of avoiding longposting, let's narrow it down to Vampire: the Masquerade. I find the idea of secret societies of vampires existing in the modern day to be very interesting, and rife with opportunities to tell interesting stories. I like the idea that they do have a lot of influence and sway over mortal institutions, but their very nature prevents outright vampire dictatorships. I love the Camarilla as a surprisingly effective yet flawed undead "civilization" that synthesizes old world tradition and modern notions of "shadow government" into something both horrifying yet fascinating. It captures a certain vibe that I can't fully describe, but one that feels like it's only improved with age. I also love the Sabbat as the opposite, this hot mess of conflicting ideologies united by their rejection of the Camarilla and embracing of savagery. I like the idea of these monsters existing just hidden from a public that not only doesn't see the monsters among them, but on some level may not want to see them. I really enjoy that despite just how horrifying these damned societies can be if you think about them from a "normal human" perspective, the vampires themselves are usually quite human. Even the ones on a path who claim to be rejecting their humanity aren't really doing anything we haven't done before. Vampire stuff can often lean way too hard into "they dindu nuffin" or "they're completely inhuman creatures without souls". WoD does a good job of threading the needle in that regard, my only complaint there is how humanity and the paths/roads aren't very good at mechanically depicting humanity nor inhumanity.

I also think (most of) the clans are well designed. I even like the Setites as is, which I know isn't a popular opinion. I accept and enjoy the evil snake cultists.

>>93940888
Brujah and Gangrel.

Any ideas for a slutty Etherite character concept? What science would she study?

File: lust.png (1.5 MB, 1299x727)

1.5 MB PNG

>>93942797
The science of Thai massage.

>>93942797
psychology of course! she knows all men are DOGS and that by just swaying her hips a bit will let's her control their every action.

basically like a bene gesserit using her vile feminine charms to control those around her

>>93939610
That's why it's important that it's a relative for whom the player is an authority figure.
They'd feel obligated to get involved even if it's "just" a bad boyfriend (I sure would if I found out my sister was working herself to death just to give her boyfriend money) and even if it reached a point where the relative goes "shut up! you don't understand! I never want to see you again" they'd still want to get involved.

>>93940290
I like the idea of the boyfriend matching the description of someone who's supposed to be dead/missing for years.
I imagine that because this vampire is wet behind the ears this relative is his first ghoul, so he's not doing it "properly" and picking his ghoul according to the tasks he needs and she's capable of and just uses her as his general purpose slave.
The ex idea is also interesting but since I'm imagining relative is his first servant that's this dedicated (probably first ghoul ever) and since I'm not bringing other vampires, supernaturals, hunters or people in the know into this particular story I'm struggling to come up with things this ex-"lover" would know.
I say that, but even a temporary toy that got too attached would know where he lives or hangs out.
It's harmonizing!

>I think I remember this one.
Oh dear, I was hoping no one would notice.
I've promised to do this campaign for a while now but exam period hit me like a truck full of lead bricks and I lost track of the advice I got and my plans.

>>93938471
>>93938585
>>93938624
>>93938629
Just woke up. Thanks for the advice anons. You always come in clutch.

What impression does your character get upon meeting a regular mortal antagonist who somehow has a Mask-type Slasher working as his bodyguard and who is completely loyal to boot?

leaked footage from room 101 showcasing advanced NWO psychological torture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTXhUQVOvdU

>>93943805
The last ones I remember of the top of my head would go...
>Excuse me, what the actual fuck?
Because despite being a changeling he was fairly shit at dealing with mortals directly.
>How long do I need to follow these fucks until I get something useful?
> I wonder how the brute would react to an invisible opponent.
Because Combat Mekhet.

>>93939507
>have active Prince for the city and have dedicated guy making posters
Man, you are lucky. As far as I can understand from what other people said, my Prince is just a dork. Not in a bad way, he just feels like a bit lazy sometimes. Which is fine by me I guess? He can sound like a jerk (as mentioned in >>93907452 spoilers), but seems to have good intentions.
One player who is real active in my city tried talked to our Prince about a newcomers fun championship: He has all new V5 starter decks and got the idea of lending these decks for new people to learn how to play the game and everyone having a good time. He talked to our LGS and they allowed this championship. He talked to our Prince and he agreed, but... Nothing happened. Sure, I understand everyone has a life outside the hobby, but he could make a little bit of effort, you know?
Not saying that putting a whole city again in VEKN isn't a good effort, but I feel younger people need to come into the hobby if it wants to survive.

>more like 30 or 40-something with history of other card games or wargaming
I'm noticing this more and more nowadays: I see some people coming from other games instead from WoD TTRPG.
I'm having a couple of ideas to ST WoD in a public library (we have one here with a "TTRPG Day" every last saturday of the month) and try to convince people to also play the cardgame. But this is for the far future.

>>93943805
>>93944408
Forgot to say, but for the sake of the exercise let's assume your character is familiar with Slashers and the Mask subtype.

>>93942509
That'd be an interesting source of conflict too, as those have some incompatabilities
>Harmonist is fixated upon a personal vision of the Cainite as a natural, nocturnal predator, and must spend time reflecting on their behavior and dance the moral mambo of balancing that against their instincts
>This naturally puts them against the Taoist, whos path dedicates them to trust their nature and the wu of fate, grinding against the moralizing of the Harmonist
>The Paladin might respect the transparency of the Taoist, but is shocked by the speed with which they succumb to their Beast, and only has contempt for the whining of the Harmonist and Humanist
>The Humanist is just looking for a bouy over an abyss. They find community with the Harmonist for their relatively modern perspective, and find familiarity with the Taoist's ideas, but is terrified by their implicit embrace of all the Beast is. With the Harmonist as a confidant, they may be able to hold on to themselves by a thread
I think they'd all need to share loyalty to the Sabbat as an ideal, even if they all disagree on what that ideal is, or their place in it. Obviously, the Harmonist and the Paladin probably have very different feelings on the Code of Milan. Their ritae and sermons probably do a lot of upholding the image of the Sabbat as a vehicle to Cainite liberation, the Vaulderie as the death blow against the Blood Bond (the Paladin might mutter under their breath about how mortals and thin-bloods are still fair game), and the Pack as the community that creates order and focus. As well, you'd probably see very strict delineation between the duties of ductus and priest. The sensitive, hands-on leadership of the Harmonist is directly hostile to the focused, hands-off methods of the Taoist. Too much overlap could be perceived as usurpation by the Harmonist, which would be resolved with sudden violence by the Taoist.

File: Gnaeus-Aemilius-Augustinu(...).jpg (123 KB, 548x756)

123 KB JPG

Eh, hoped for Justicar but this isn't too bad either. His special is neat, not too strong (prey gets to choose), but it adds some pressure.
Also where's Lima?
inb4: Lima balls.

>>93945909
Lima is the capital of Peru.
Peru in some languages is a slang for "dick". So you can lima balls and peru

Give me good Vampire slurs
>Besides Ghoul and Room temp piece of ass

>>93946191
From hunters or neonates: Vlad, Count von Count or Muppet, Chocula, Orlok, Lestat etc pop culture references. Then of course the usual lick, leech, bloodsucker and such.

>>93946191
I prefer the term Parasite, because it's what they are.

>>93946191
Probably not what you are looking for, but "gangrene" for the gangrel always makes me laugh.

>>93946191
Ahem.
>Suckhead
>Fangbanger
>Fruit Bat
>Corpse
>Sparkle-boy
>Mall Goth
>Organ Grinder

Also most clans have their own specific slurs like "Sewer Rat" for Nossies or "Pervs" for Toreador.

>>93946191
Mangle Mutts for Werwolves
Fae Footstools for Changelings
Had a game where we called Nos "Pearls" so as not to break the masquerade

>>93946768
>Had a game where we called Nos "Pearls"
I don't get it. Why pearls?

>>93946776
NTA but probably cuz they're bald.

>>93946776
1. Blade Runner reference
2. Pearls are pretty and valuable so it's a joke
3. Bald

File: 1685984044627037.png (86 KB, 660x574)

86 KB PNG

>>93946768
>>93946874
Maybe every clan should get a nickname based on precious/semiprecious shit.

>>93946191
Fagula.

>>93945909
>Lima has a ytoid Prince
Prime opportunity for a bit of drownededness

>>93946874
You forgot, even if you brain didn't: the fat orlok vamp in Blade was named Pearl

File: file.png (1.15 MB, 618x800)

1.15 MB PNG

Curseborne news time again.

This week it's a lot of new stuff, more or less, and it's starting off with the last core Lineage, the Dead.
https://theonyxpath.com/curseborne-the-dead-1/
The Dead are, well, dead. In WoD terms these are half-way between a Wraith and a Sin-Eater. You're an actual ghost but haunting a body, that is usually your own from life. Like Wraiths they're very focused on emotions as being dead has stripped away a lot of the joys of living. Each Family is focused on a specific emotion that they need to evoke. Like Sin-Eaters, or rather Geists, they're bound to a mortal shell and while they can leave it they can't stay away forever. Their Practices lean more towards Geists I'd say but there are new things in the mix too.

>Emotional Manipulation is the Dead’s urges born to bear. These spells give the Dead the ability to manipulate the emotions of others: heightening or decreasing emotions as well as driving people to action or inaction.
>Incorporeality gives the Dead access to a greater suite of powers while in ghost form, allowing them to interact with the physical world and possess all manner of things.
>Metaphysics plays on the Dead’s nature as a ghost and gives them properties that defy natural physics. They can draw on their ghost nature while possessing a body to utilize its intangible nature, as well as their own experiences as being dead to manipulate the world around them.

The Family that one focuses on are Mavens who crave thrills and excitement as their emotion.

The other Family they covered are the Furies.
https://theonyxpath.com/curseborne-the-dead-2/
I don't have a load to add but they're Ghost Rider-esque spirits of vengeance, as well as anger, which is hard to make not fun.

Another blog on adversaries and this time it's Venators, AKA Hunters.
https://theonyxpath.com/curseborne-global-adversaries-venators/
There is a good mix of ideas in here and it seems to have a HtV approach in terms of scale, so a nice spread of stuff there.

>>93947436
> They retain all their mental faculties, but are otherwise disembodied dead people. They start out haunting their own body. But they can absolutely lose that body and need to find a new one. They can choose to haunt a non-human body if they really want to, or try to maintain their own body for as long as possible

might be because i am esl, but the wording reads a bit weird to me like is another human body on something they can "haunt" if they lose their original one or are they then limited to non-human ones?

>>93947590
Yeah, they can claim another human body if they need to but it can't be presently occupied by a consciousness. So corpses, people on life support, or that sort of thing. Not just a dude walking down the street. You might not really get to be that picky either as being unanchored for a scene causes you to lose a Skill dot, and if you've got no Skill dots left it's Attributes, and then you turn into an unthinking phantasm. Getting a new body gets you your dots back after a day. Presumably they'll be spells that allow them greater control over that but they might not be able to fully body jack someone. Speaking of spells I'll briefly mention the three that were in the Ashcan. All of them are bleed 1 curse die for their cost.

Emotional Manipulation had Dissonance, and Provocation. Dissonance was a basic magic blast thing, you rolled Empathy for the attack and it could stun. Provocation heightens a target's current emotional state to cause one of seven Conditions, and you just use whatever makes the most sense. This is only a roll if the target has Emotional resistance.

Incorporeality had Shared Senses which lets you share a willing target's senses, and be insensate to your own, and also mentally communicate with them. The fun part is that while you're in their head they gain teamwork benefits on their rolls and if they take damage you can choose to take it for them. This one is also a special case in that it has the Lineage tag, meaning any other Lineage can learn this not just the Dead.

Metaphysics didn't have an example spell but it gets a longer description. It was also called Discorporation in the Ashcan,
>The Dead’s inherent state is immaterial, but they are forced to possess other forms to keep their minds and senses intact. However, mastery over their native state allows them to extend the benefits of incorporeality to their borrowed and worn forms, making the material world’s limits often optional.

>>93947436
I don't really understand who their target audience is. Like, even (n)WoD cross splat has all the structures of WoD to give a shape to the game. You more or less know what the structure of your setting is so you can just run scenarios within that, and it all works and all the work not related to the specifics of what you're running into is done for you. Do they really expect to just give people this kitchen sink and no direction? Is there some sort of bizarre citybook which rigidly defines the expected structure of your average city that I just haven't heard of?

File: chris.jpg (157 KB, 1280x720)

157 KB JPG

>here's the new member of your coterie, neonate anon
How do you react?

>>93947838
Par for the course, really

>>93947832
The target audience is people who like urban fantasy?

>>93947832
Broadly its a street-level mystery thing. From everything they've talked about so far it doesn't really seem like it'll be lacking that sort of structure. It might not be as specifically focused as a single WoD splat is but it doesn't seem aimless. We don't have a great idea of what the content of the finished book will be like yet but we do know they're supporting single and multi-lineage games too. Which at least suggests that ways to tailor a game to more specific vibes.

They've talked more about what the setting is like and what you'll get up to in these too.
https://theonyxpath.com/curseborne-what-is-curseborne/
https://theonyxpath.com/curseborne-what-do-characters-do/

>>93947838
>How do you react?
Par for the course, really (2).

Welcome aboard, your first task is entering Sabbat territory to get us... something or other,

>>93947436
These seem like the best of both worlds for ghost splat for me. Both games did the split personality thing and I could never get behind it while Wraith was really full on and GTSE wasn't ghosty enough for me.

Do we know the other hungers or whatever they're called; is there anything for just being scary?

>>93948198
We know the basics of the others. You've got the Shades that are all about misery and seek out people they think deserve having it heaped upon them. Wardens are longing for desperation and respond to it by protecting those in need. It just so happens that they might also be creating problems themselves so there are always people to save. Zeds are probably the one I like the most, they're dead assassins. As I understand it they're a proper organisation of hitmen and that's one of my favourite tropes. The reason for offing people is that they're after endings and dying is pretty final (most of the time). Poltergeists are what you're after though, fear is what they're after and they're sort of Beast-like in they try to use it as a teaching tool but don't seem to be deluding themselves and they know it sucks but they're doing the best they can with it. At least as far as I've gathered.

File: +3.png (13 KB, 391x79)

13 KB PNG

Is that still the case in CofD 2nd edition (no more than +3 bonus from a non supernatural merit)?

>>93948368
Who are you quoting?

>>93948382
CofD Mirrors

>>93947366
I meant "Blade" not Blade Runner
Recently Watched that movie sorry

>>93948368
No, the 2e core book says that the modifiers go up to 5 dice when using mundane gear and you can there isn't a ceiling for modifiers as a whole.

>>93948679
I missed that. Thanks.

>>93946191
Doesn't translate perfectly in English, but recently I made the SI categorize what they don't know as clans as "strands", subsequently leading to caitiff characters calling others from the clans as "stranded". Not much, but hey...
I actually would welcome some slurs/nicknames from other languages.
That's something I always enjoyed about the WoD, that feeling that those people move around and import and/or keep random lingo from other countries and time periods.

>>93945909
I like it. Mean asshole.
Speaking of Lasombra, just found that in my link pile of "inspiration for future use". It's coïncidentaly too perfect not to use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%91etas
>The Asociación Ñeta was founded in 1979 by Carlos Torres Irriarte, also known as "La Sombra", when several pro-independence political prisoners were incarcerated in the maximum security Oso Blanco prison located in Rio Piedras.
>The Ñetas became the most dominant gang in the Oso Blanco prison by the early 1980s
>It became such a force that the Puerto Rico Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation physically segregated Ñetas and their rivals in separate buildings or facilities within the prisons.

>>93947436
So Curseborn Dead are just basically WoD Risen without the convoluted requisites?

Does anyone else think Lilith's book reads like the 10,000 BC equivalent of a woman post break-up writing a blog about how her ex has a tiny penis and she totally fucked this other guy who was way better than him and how she's happy he's gone, etc. ?

Because that's how it reads to me. I can practically visualize her with the tub of Ben and Jerry's.

Sorry, all I see is "I want to be made into fertilizer"

>>93935302
The reputation was from the True Brujah and the brujah stole it.

How would the current era of AI edits factor into paradox and consensus?
>some random person sees you torch a ghoul with a fireball
>records it on their smartphone
>uploads it to twitter
>”Guy burnt to dust in back alley :O #Trumpsamerica”
>every single response is just calling it AI or photoshop

>>93937270
>See, it's hard to take the Brujah seriously when they have nothing to show for being philosophers
Brujahs are a clan that (with Salubri, Setites, Ravnos and Giovanni) should not exist. They are one of the first clans created but even after decades of developing still looks unfinished and without place in the setting.
A anarch of X clan will be a better and more complex character than any brujah ever written.

>>93950576
>Brujahs are a clan that (with Salubri, Setites, Ravnos and Giovanni) should not exist.
Based.

>>93949449
Yes. And now they can FUCK living women WITHOUT using Puppetry.

>>93947838
what clan is he?

>>93950563
Consensus would become even more crystallized into the mundane technocratic hell of pure depression and slop (not even control wanted this)

Vulgar with witnesses generates the same amount of paradox wether it be a single dude or a Taylor Swift concert IIRC so it would have no effect on Paradox at all

>>93951091
Malk. Or a crazy Caitiff.

>>93951091
>>93951112
okay but what if you can't pick Malkavian (because it's so easy)?

>>93951123
Baali.

>>93947838
>>93951123
Tremere.

File: C5D6C9FB-C3B7-4195-86B1-0(...).png (2.48 MB, 1920x1080)

2.48 MB PNG

VtMB “2” news for anyone that cares.
Male Phyre’s design was shown and it looks…decent. Surprising, I know.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxFk0g11a6c
Skip to 2:14

>>93951211
Is that Garrett?

File: 1701556131593064.jpg (110 KB, 751x1063)

110 KB JPG

>>93951123
In no articular order, Chrischan:

-talks to magical entities from another dimension (aka demons)
-is married to multiple such beings (just like witches were said to marry the devil)
-wants to bring such beings into our reality (the Merge)
-lives in filth, bugs everywhere
-actually enjoys living in filth
-somehow manages to fascinate some people (evidence of Presence or some dark, twisted, similar power)
-mocks the Abrahamic god with his goddess bullshit
-demands worship
-performs evil magical rituals (eg the Fanta one)
-carries a magical medallion depicting some dark, twisted being
-incest

Bonus: he probably sacrificed animals to his dark lords (what do you think happened to his cats?)
Yup, Baali is a good fit.

>>93951304
you know the thought of Baali being like chrischan suddenly makes them a lot more scary in my mind

>>93951324
Chrischan is* only funny because he lacks almost any power. The second he realized he had the power to rape his own mother he was fucking her and boasting about being better than his father.

*was

>>93951385
can you imagine living in a reality where chris has all of his self-insert powers? you'd be at the complete mercy of an insane, incestuous god

>>93952147
Holy shit it's Zeus all over again. The Technocracy made their own Zeus AIIIEEEEEEEE

>>93951211
>says the word polish 50 times
>shows no gameplay
>no character customization
you can only polish a turd so much

>>93952386
They know it’s shit.
We know it’s shit.
Just release the Lou model so we can have the porn animations already, for fuck’s sake.

>>93952415
>>93952386
We know it's shit. They know it's shit. They know we know it's shit. We know that they know we know it's shit. And still they continue to polish

>>93952147
literal Nephandus
and people say 100% pure evil villains are unrealistic...

>>93949449
I forgot the risen exist, it is quite a bit like that yes. Although mechanically quite different and more like a Sin-Eater. Albeit they're like a Sin-Eater who is also their own Geist.

>>93952147
>steals your stuff
>rapes your mon and your sisters
>tortures (you)
"Pardon my flatulence" :^)

Finally could give Gehenna War a cursory look, and it finally struck me /how/ I'm not the target audience for those books anymore. I'm just too old. The majority of the help the book tries to provide is useless/meaningless to me. Been there, done that. I'm left with very little of use, most of which I could easily provide myself if I needed.

>>93951211
Feels like the orginal enthusiasm has been kicked right out of them. Kinda sad, if you can extend the sympathy.

>>93950576
>Brujahs are a clan that (with Salubri, Setites, Ravnos and Giovanni) should not exist
I wouldn't lump Brujah with the others myself. I think it misses tha marks for matters of execution. The others have issues on a conceptual level.

>>93950533
A posteriori addition that muddled things more than it enhanced, I would say. But hey, COOL TIME POWERS!!!

File: 546 - neutral pepe stretched.png (132 KB, 550x535)

132 KB PNG

>Kiss of Lachesis: Change the legal age of a target
What did true Brujah mean by this?

File: thispower.jpg (32 KB, 800x411)

32 KB JPG

>>93952901

>>93953025
not from a anarch

File: IMG_3717.png (522 KB, 592x873)

522 KB PNG

>>93950576
I like Salubri, Warrior Salubri! Deus Vult, Fucker!
>Firebombs your Haven.

>>93953275
>t. three-eyed brujah

>>93952855
>I wouldn't lump Brujah with the others myself. I think it misses tha marks for matters of execution. The others have issues on a conceptual level.
I think that they are also fucked on a conceptual level. In the modern era the anarchs are better on a design level than them. You can get way more mileage of picking a random clan and making it a anarch than creating a brujah.
If you use dark ages, they are just there. They don't fit the high and low clans paradigm. They are too shit and unstable for the high clans and at the same time their design don't fit the low clans. And the characters you can make with them are, again, better with a rebel of another clan.

>>93950563
>How would the current era of AI edits factor into paradox and consensus?
It would make recording based paradox harder to trigger, that's it.

>>93952855
>Finally could give Gehenna War a cursory look, and it finally struck me /how/ I'm not the target audience for those books anymore. I'm just too old.
Yeah but the same applies to anyone who read the previous editions and how they handled political and spy plots.
V5 is for the people who really can't be bothered to read the previous versions because it is easier to get V5 material.

>>93952855
>Feels like the orginal enthusiasm has been kicked right out of them. Kinda sad, if you can extend the sympathy.
I get that the current development team has nothing to do with the shit show management but given what was promised and what was lost... I have no sympathy for the company.
>>93952147
>>93952209
What?

>>93951304
How does Brucato feel about how much further Chris has gone in his Working just on sheer autistic intuition of the left-hand path?

>>93952386
>Overuse the word polish
>The evil enforcer of their regime is Polish
Lexicon is destiny

>>93950576
One of the best choices Requiem 1e did was fuse the Brujah and Toreador into one Clan. Of course Requiem 2e stripped out the Brujah parts and turned them into Toreador with a people obsession instead of an art obsession, which I'm not super happy about.

>>93952901
>True Brujah were LoliChads
Perhaps I was too harsh on the True Brujah, after all.

>>93954780
Except both Brujah, and Toreador existed virtually as is as Bloodlines in 1e.

>>93954780
Wack. 1e daeva were really flat IMO and only became interesting, and more importantly unique, in 2e. Well in the clanbook but that was a soft relaunch. And c'mon it's not like 1e daeva didn't just have a vice obsession. It's a lot closer to the toreador weakness than 2e's is and it also sucked ass because it was just an uninteresting WP tax.

>>93954780
Yeah, Brujah have a specific problem where they're over-represented but under-characterized, while Toreador are under-represented but distinct. It makes sense to just smash them together. Potence, Celerity, Auspex; vampires of extreme passion and extreme obsession.

>>93954821
Yeah, and they were very lazy.

>>93954961
I don't disagree that changes needed to be made, but that doesn't mean I like how it was done, at all.

>>93954961
The weakness is also far more inline with their whole deal. 1e's was nearly identical to the Toreador one.

>>93955002
You just sort of hate all of vtr then? If you think that needed to be changed but is also the best choice 1e did I can't imagine there is a load you actually like.

>>93955027
I didn't say it was the best choice, I said it was one of the best. The best choice was introducing Covenants. I think 2e was an overall improvement, I just don't like how they handled Daeva. It's also why I specifically said it was one of the best choices 1e did and not Requiem as a whole.

>>93954961
>>93955027
You seem a little hostile and defensive. There's no need to be upset just because someone has a different opinion about a game that you like.

>>93955175
No one cares what you like.

The CofD 2e fanboys are at it again.

>>93955127
That's semantics, you know what I mean.

>>93955243
Are there really CofD fanboys? I thought like 99% of them moved on to gWoD.

>>93955243
i think it's just one kid that shows up here every few months during weekends

File: 1635964727080.png (91 KB, 1015x352)

91 KB PNG

>>93955287
Because this general has a huge hate-boner for V5, it is an ideal home for people who are devoted fans of CofD. The only site where they are more populous is the official OPP forum.

There's also the fact that they've been encouraged to astroturf by OPP freelancers.

>>93955281
Yes I do. You meant to build a strawman you could knock down because I had the gall to criticize a single change between editions.

Ultimately, the original draft of V5 had the most promise and, aside from the Chechnya Challenges, mostly misstepped by having an ugly rulebook and its metaplot characters falling flat on their faces. Even if Theo Bell and Jan Pieterzoon took a backseat compared to Beckett and Vykos by Revised, they still had some initial appeal compared to Fiorenza Savona and Rudi. Fiorenza Savona was a solid concept mostly derailed by the fact Hillary Clinton did not win the 2016 election. The intention was that she would win, and Savona was a darker reflection of her simultaneous aspirational and very evil sides. Unfortunately, those were extremely overplayed during her campaign and totally ruined her chances of getting elected to anything ever again, so Savona lost all real-world context. Rudi, unfortunately for being based on someone close to The Goymer, was just not a compelling character. Opening with such a snowflakey description and him getting into an argument over pronouns and representation, over actually leading and motivating the Anarchs of Stockholm, totally kneecapped him and left no room to defend him from the inevitable culture police. How could those characters have been pivoted to save V5? How could we convince the writers to blood hunt the design team? Thank you for attending my TED Talk.

>>93955373
Or, it's just that you said one of the best things about a game was something that needed to be changed which implies a low opinion of the game? It's a game, chill out.

>>93955326
Who cares what somebody on Discord posted? The sort of people who post here would probably get run out of a server like that.

Guys, don't fall for the edition war bait.

>>93955410
It's not even an edition war, I'm talking about how they seemingly don't like 1e very much.

>>93955398
You're the one who did the equivalent of hearing me complaining about how a brand of syrup changed their formula and jumping the conclusion I hate waffles. You're the one who initially came off as hostile, and while I tried to be civil, rather than accepting my explanation, you were dismissive of it and clearly still are. I think you are the one that needs to chill out, because yes, it is just a game and isn't worth getting upset over.

>>93955465
I don't care if you don't like vampire, anon. I asked because that's what you implied.

>>93955502
No I didn't, that's what you inferred. The devil is in the details, and it isn't my fault you don't think details are important.

>>93950576
>>93953783
I think the problem with the Brujah isn't that there's nothing to work with, but that the official material focuses way too much on the wrong thing. Brujah have a clan curse that gives them a penalty to resist frenzy, which also manifests in their tempers being generally very hair-trigger. While simple, that clan curse is an excellent angle for storytelling that sadly takes a massive backseat to the politics philosophy crap.

But if we actually focus on their anger, that can be very interesting. Vampires already have to fear frenzy, what happens if they lose control, but Brujah feel it burning hotter in the back of their throat at all times. Imagine if you will someone very even-tempered and calm who was turned by a Brujah. Suddenly, there's this foreign presence urging you, demanding you cut loose, to indulge in emotions that are not your own. An echo of the rage and hatred of the first diablerist, passed down through the millennia. That's cool, that's a curse you can do so much more with than "vampire rebels and other political extremes!" There's so much more to anger than wanting to kill someone over your dogshit utopian ideology. However, by focusing on the politics shit they give the Brujah so much overlap with the Anarchs the pseudo-sect just feels like just the Brujah Sect, despite the fact the Brujah were still a founding Clan of the Camarilla.

My general philosophy is that clans with very specific focuses tend to be the ones you can do the least with (the 4 independents being Ethnic Group + Fantasy Class are good examples of this). But the clans with broad, archetypal and conceptual themes you can do so much more with. Ventrue are all about power, control, and leadership. Toreador have vanity and obsession. These concepts are so much more versatile and timeless, so you can do so much more with them. Brujah should be a clan like that, but they are misused so horribly in official material.

>>93955519
If you don't think saying one of the best things in 1e needed changing implies a low opinion of 1e then you're either trolling or ironically unaware of the details of what you've said. Either is fine. This conversation has clear run its course.

>>93955547
You're the one who read:
>i thought this was a really good decision when they first released requiem and don't like they changed it.
as:
>this good change is literally the only thing i like about requiem and now the entire game line is ruined because they changed it.

>>93955529
>However, by focusing on the politics shit they give the Brujah so much overlap with the Anarchs the pseudo-sect just feels like just the Brujah Sect, despite the fact the Brujah were still a founding Clan of the Camarilla.
V5 finally rectified this... by officially making Anarchs the Brujah Sect OTL

At least this gives ammunition for the Camarilla to dissuade Caitiff and Thin-Blood who think they'll have it better now that there's 3 clans "officially" in the Anarch movement.

>>93955287
Why the fuck would people avoiding owod cringe move to owod cringe?

>>93956461
i saw a depressing amount of people who moved because it's the "newest and supported version" and for no other reason...

>>93956479
>supported
tbf those people are also playing CofD rather than backporting CofD's system into nWoD so they're not the brightest of sorts

>>93956461
they are told that paradox products are modern and thus not racist and because of that they are fine to use these to play violent blood rapists and murderers without offending anyone

i wish i was joking, but this is a actual argument i had thrown in my face on the offical discord

>>93956527
That would imply that people wanted to play owod in the first place but were avoiding it because it was racist.
If you started with CofD I can kind of see that argument (for the people who care about it) but 1e splats were pretty racist in the same way as oWoD and it's parody stereotypes of foreigners

Brujah and Lasombra should've really been just one clan that stands as Ventrue's rival clan, the conquerors to their rulers. Instead we have this silly situation where 3 or 4 clans thinks they're Clan Ventrue's great rivals.

>>93956568
That's pretty much what VtR did with Daeva, but naturally that's part and parcel of cutting it down to five clans.
You can't combine lasombra with other clans anyway because they are walking masquerade breaches and that's always going to be an overpowering unique feature. You'd have to mix bruhah's identity into something else to keep any of it around.

>>93956591
>You can't combine lasombra with other clans anyway because they are walking masquerade breaches and that's always going to be an overpowering unique feature. You'd have to mix bruhah's identity into something else to keep any of it around.
I meant in terms of the Lasombras' ruthlessness and being "dark kings" and evil-er Ventrues. Obtenebration and the Reflection curse can be shoved elsewhere, preferrably where they won't be a clan's major defining trait.

Love blooms on the battlefield between a Tremere and Nagaraja. What's next?

>>93956617
Auspex/Necromancy/Thaumaturgy Bloodline
or, Nagaraja Gargoyles

>>93956617
i don't think we have interactions between them in the modern nights, but during the dark ages the tremere didn't minded the nagaraja, but thought that they lacked ambition while nagaraja thought the tremere are kindred spirits and to be fair they ARE both ex mage lines at war with the clan they stole the blood from

the nagaraja also let some tremere into their stupid little sect despite them basicly standing for the opposite of antedeluvian worship

so all in all probably not much beside some vampire mage bloodmages chilln' together

>>93956431
>cries about a strawman
>strawmans to cope
Classic

>>93956568
It's a Ventrue world, we're just living in it.


Sometimes I think they design the game around the Ventrue, and when they remember the other clans exist, they just try to force them in.

>>93957337
Dark Ventrue
Punk Ventrue
Psycho-Slav Ventrue
Sewer Ventrue
Nice Ventrue
Muslim Ventrue
Pretty Ventrue
Nature Ventrue
Zombie Ventrue
Crazy Ventrue
Tricky Ventrue
Cult Ventrue
Library Ventrue

>>93956461
>owod
You wish.
>Why
A lot of people just want to be "in" on whatever the controlling corporation is currently selling.

Does requiem have any analogues of temporis or truja?

>>93956650
Who did the cannibals steal blood from?

>>93957811
No, time powers are a mage and horror thing in CofD

>>93957811
Depends on what you mean
Celerity is time powers. If you want magic that effects objects you need to use one of the types of actual magic.

>>93957819
setites. Back in the day some Idran (proto proto euthanatoi) fucked off from their homelands because they wanted out of the war their kind had with the akashics and ended up in egypt where they joined up with a mummy called Inauhaten to protect enoch in exchange for the spell of life. only for the spell to not work with their paragrim but hey with the help of the mummy they figured out lichdom instead and they had a ancient super spooky ghost city as HQ now so everything was pretty much fine. A bit later however they got overrun by those snake fucker setites who wanted the city to "exalt their founder" whatever that means and they couldn't deal with that probably because well a vampire is easier to make than combat worthy mage let alone liche and their Loka pillars have no mind control so the setites also had a easier time using mortals agains them too. So first they tried to get into vampire politics because they rightfully suspected that the setites would have enemies amoung their kind, but they somehow fucked up and ended up pissing off the vampires they contacted too (because given the area these probably been assamites and they probably told them about enoch) so to counter the vampires coming from all sides they reluctantly decided to make their own bloodline (and give them fucking dominate! to make all those mortal cultist cannon fodder fuck off) by cleansing setite vitae of the influence of set and then sacrificing some of their living apprentices to become the first of their kind but they used to much entropy magic / fucked up their karma etc which is why they need to eat flesh and they are deadly afraid that a setite could just rebuild the sympathetic connection between their two lines and allow set or one of his eldests childes to enslave them using it so they still kill setites on sight

File: 1445547028316.gif (257 KB, 500x500)

257 KB GIF

>>93934012
Did that dude translating France by Night die or something? I was looking forward to that.

>>93958021
last time i seen him in here he said that he wasn't active in those threads anymore but was at the time willing to look up info from the book for anons asking questions

File: IMG_8302.jpg (100 KB, 633x578)

100 KB JPG

Vanilla second edition chronicle starting soon if any of y’all wanna play with Jen join up I’m down to run for any of y’all.
https://discord.gg/djHDtM6w

>>93957839
>>93957924
Okay
I'm writing up a scenario that involves vamps wanting to control time but I fear my players browse here so that's all I want to say

I know this is retarded but I need to get it off my chest.

Imagine this as a splat: pro wrestlers. In the same way vampires, werewolves, frankensteins, wizards, etc., are real, so are pro wrestlers. And just like how vampires have the masquerade, the pro wrestlers have their kayfabe. But kayfabe's even deeper: they're pretending to be real pretending to be fake.

I was thinking that different styles of wrestlers would be the sub-splats, like Clans or Tribes. So you could have a WWFer, who's a roid and cocaine fuelled strength monster, a Luchadore who wears a mask and does things faster paced, the Vanilla Midget who is small and does technical wrestling, the AEWer who is gay and trans and small and does flippy shit.

>>93957998
Also, read into it however you want, you can see that they cleansed the blood much better than the Tremere. The Nagaraja share no Disciplines with the Setites, and never came up in any of Set's schemes. The Tremere are not only still a haemotological bloodline of the Tzimisce, but also a spiritual bloodline of the Salubri.

>>93957337
I wouldn't go that far. Though, as much as I love them, I do feel like there is something I call the "Ventrue Problem". Because they're the Clan that represents the Vampire as Elite, and their themes are tied to things like Rulership and Control, they need to be the typical leaders in order to work, as well as the usual winners in vampire history. However, VtM is also a game of intrigue with a lot of emphasis on the idea of everyone wanting more power. While power doesn't have to come from being the man in charge, it means a lot of clans can be defined by their relation to the Ventrue.

Sometimes White Wolf tried to get around this problem in certain regions of the globe by just saying "there aren't many Ventrue here", but that accidentally creates a problem where the Ventrue are rather arbitrarily kept out of certain regions and as a result it can come off like the Ventrue are supposed to be specifically western-coded. Which doesn't work for me, because the themes Ventrue speak to are pretty universal. Every culture has elites, hierarchies, and snobs. They work a little too well at what they're supposed to be.

Personally, I think the best solution is to just acknowledge there's a lot more paths to power than being in charge. And if you're afraid of every damn Prince being a Ventrue, also remember that you can have situations where the Prince is has less influence than the Primogen, or even a specific Elder in their domain. But I like the Ventrue, so I am biased towards keeping them as a clan, and a prominent one.

>>93958252
Good luck, remember that the demon translation guide has stuff to translate abilities in general.

>>93958268
Just play the Street Fighter RPG for fuck sake.

>>93957410
What about Ventrue Ventrue?

>>93958548
You know how that Exalted vs the World of Darkness game has that moment where some sperg bursts in on some vampires with a horsie mask and a mall katana?

I want that, only instead of being some sperg I want to be a coked out roid monster with a steel chair wrapped in barbed wire that's also on fire bursting in on some vampires.

>>93958578
Again, play street fighter or use the dudes of legends book if you want to be extra retarded.

>>93958602
Why do you hate wrestling anon?

>>93953783
I may be misunderstanding you, but seems to me like you're making Anarchs and Brujah basically interchangeable, which I believe they're not.
As far as I'm concerned, I would be with anon >>93955529, the core of Brujah isn't rebellion, it's the tension being between being builders, trying to do good, and the cursed rage that makes them fail too often (I mean, Moses breaking the tables of law? Total Brujah moment.). Trouble, again as far as I'm concerned is that, as noted previously in the thread, you need an accomplishement - or something close enough to that - for the failure to be tragic. And they don't have that. And what little they might have had was taken aways as the narrative developed.


>>93958507
One small problem I tend to have with Ventrue is that they're supposed to be parasites (I mean its in the name and its 19th century political meaning), powerful because of structural more than individual power. But the way the vampire themes coalesce into hyper individuality makes the story more about personal power and merit - so that the clan becomes the perfect propaganda piece for meritocracy it's not really supposed to be.
I'm probably reading a bit too much into it, but it always bothered me a bit.

>remember that you can have situations where the Prince is has less influence than the Primogen, or even a specific Elder in their domain.
I actually very much like "weak" Prince set ups. Especially when/where the decorum is perfectly kept, and it takes PCs some effort to catch it.

>>93958636
I don't care for wrestling, I'm just annoyed with the whole "Imagine X within the world of darkness. Wouldn't that be cool?" And ignoring the fact that the thing they want already exists or can be created with very little effort.
It's not even worded in a way that gets a discussion running like "how do I mechanically represent wrestling move #54768?" And even then you can just point at "All Flesh Must Be Eaten: Enter The Zombie" and be done with it.

>>93958371
If you ignore the magik, tremeres are one of the clans that fcuked up the most. If not for plot armor they would have been eliminated millenia ago

>>93958677
>I may be misunderstanding you, but seems to me like you're making Anarchs and Brujah basically interchangeable, which I believe they're not.
As far as I'm concerned, I would be with anon >>93955529 #, the core of Brujah isn't rebellion, it's the tension being between being builders, trying to do good, and the cursed rage that makes them fail too often (I mean, Moses breaking the tables of law? Total Brujah moment.). Trouble, again as far as I'm concerned is that, as noted previously in the thread, you need an accomplishement - or something close enough to that - for the failure to be tragic. And they don't have that. And what little they might have had was taken aways as the narrative developed.
Its because I'm taking about brujah as written and you are talking about what you want the brujah to be. As written the focus is on rebellion and going against the flow. The rage is mentioned as a tool to make them more brutish instead of what you are describing. Ffs, even the divisions in the clan are more about how they see rebellion than ruling or whatever
The brujah were a mistake.

>>93934180
I've thought about this a bit more and I think if you associate Brujah with Celerity it makes more sense. It symbolizes both their quick temper and philosophy as Celerity can also be used for fast thinking not just being fast physically.I still think True Brujah's thing makes more sense though

>>93959021
Think of celerity as a dumbed down temporis. The brujah are the imbred cousins of trujah after all

>1984 is the NWO’s wet dream

>>93958677
You have more faith in White Wolf than I do to assume the name Ventrue is a reference to a 19th century political term rather than the same galaxy brains who gave us Brujah, Toreador, and Lasombra swapping the place of two letters in the word "Venture".

Personally I don't see the issue with the Ventrue being what they are. All vampires are inherently parasitic in nature, and as weird as it might sound, nepotism and meritocracy don't have to be mutually exclusive when you never age and are a small enough group that you can pick and choose who you want. You have to prove you're worthy to get in, but once you make it, you get so many institutional advantages the world's your oyster, and those connections keep you loyal. It's unfair for everyone else, and that's why it works. It's good for a game where moral concerns are usually personal (don't lose all your humanity) or existential (don't let idiots destroy the masquerade). Yes, they're parasites. The best damned parasites you've ever seen. The Kings of Parasites. apologies if this sounds familiar, I think we've had this conversation before

I love the Ventrue because I love the themes of undying aristocracy, board-room illuminati multinational puppeteers, and that power may change its face now and again, but it never changes at its core. Chieftans, God-Kings, Noble Lords, Merchant Princes, or the modern Technocratic Elite? Different faces for the same beast. IRL the parasitic elite are lame because they're shlubby, shitty humans. But an immortal lineage of rulers that have been pulling this off since the first primitive made a crown of particularly shiny bones? That's cool.

Of course, if that doesn't appeal to you I totally get it. I have clans that I have very personal gripes with as well.

>>93956568
I like the relationship between the Lasombra and Ventrue. It's political vs para-political approaches to power. If Ventrue want to control presidents and congress, then Lasombra want to control the CIA and drug cartels. Brujah are just a mob of angry protestors raging against the machine.

>>93959649
I like all three as political vampires, imo the main problem with Brujah is their only achievement is Carthage. Writers should have put a few more times in history where Brujah tried cities where humans and vampires tried to coexist

>>93959474
Close, but no. The ideal Technocratic world, at least so far as the higher-ups are concerned, is that of Terry Gilliam's Brazil- minus the part where you can escape by going mad and retreating into your own mind.

>>93958371
to be fair they are nearly completely destroyed during the week of nightmares and don't even get a foot note in either the gehenna novels or game book (presumably the beasts courts kill them when they can't handle the withering) so we don't know if they would be targeted by Set's presence 10 global suicide order for example as they are probably already wiped out at the time

(Preamble I just did an all nighter running two consecutive games back to back, so if I don't make much sense, disregard.)
>>93958999
>it's because I'm taking about brujah as written and you are talking about what you want the brujah to be.
I think you're being unfair here - you might pull that one on me for Ventrue, but Brujah is supported by text. Just not enough - Again, Menele, Critias, Tyler, the Anarch Revolt before it got infected by the Sabbat story line, the very myth of Carthage. All that is there, and core of the original release. The game grew in a direction that made poor use of that material.

>>93959537
>You have more faith in White Wolf than I do
Not a matter of faith, the term is way too specific, used in a fitting context, and coexists with Camarilla, a word that isn't of French origin, but was used by the same circles that would have used "ventru" in that time period. The most likely explanation is that someone at WW was reading papers on France's post revolutionary period and pilfered words (Toréador existed since the 16th century but was a preciosity, that really only came in vogue in the 19th) and concepts that felt exotic to the american mind, and generally informed the mood of the V1 release.
And no apologies needed. We tend to ramble a bit. That's just the in the nature of talking about things we enjoy - magnified by the way anonymous boards structure conversations.

>>93959649
I look at both more like embodiements of institutional, structural politics vs the formlessness of social darwinism (which, it always amuses me, is neither social, nor darwinism).

What's your favorite take on the Ravnos clan curse, from any edition or even bloodline? I'm trying to like the clan, but I need something more compelling than "gypsy thieves" or "bad understanding of Hinduism".

>>93934012
How many Vampires are there worldwide? I have a friend IRL who made some calculations and arrived at 5 million. With around 500,000 woofs in comparison. The point was also made that the 1 vampire for every 100,000 humans makes no sense and that in practice there is far more.

File: 1726963077567194.gif (574 KB, 600x275)

574 KB GIF

>>93960607
That's because it's a camarilla ideal and not an actual hard rule.

>>93960607
midnight siege says that camarilla thinks there are roughly 100k, but that inlcudes kueijin and laibon the giovanni mention in their revised clanbook that they would be suprised if there are 40k when talking about why they don't think the sabbat is gonna take over the world

500k is also way too much for woofs they consider a hundred woofs in the amazon to be unprecedented show of force and baba yaga had 300 black spiral dancer across the entire soviet union so we are looking at like low double digit to high single digit thousands at best

>>93960351
>I think you're being unfair here - you might pull that one on me for Ventrue, but Brujah is supported by text. Just not enough - Again, Menele, Critias, Tyler, the Anarch Revolt before it got infected by the Sabbat story line, the very myth of Carthage. All that is there, and core of the original release. The game grew in a direction that made poor use of that material.

You are still reading way more than what actually was there. Menele and Critias never did anything of note besides fighting, tyler biggest accomplishment was killing, the anarch revolt was them fighting and ending in a blood bond and carthage was just a baali heaven. The only thing in common in all of that is that brujah are angry about things but ultimately are too dumb to create anything of note. The ''philosophers-kings'' only purpose is to start the fire until a better kindred takes control.
Using the anarch revolt as a example, the umga bumga of the brujah wasn't anything of note, the events with the other 12 clans was more interesting. A anarch from any of the other clans during that period would be a better character than a brujah. They suck

>>93960603
They're vampires as thieves, tricksters and transients. Unwelcome guests, exploitative travellers, wandering bad omens who bring grief and misery to everyone they meet. For this reason, I think that their fifth edition bane is the best. They're intruders, monsters who invade the lives of normal people and wreck them over the course of a couple of nights, through deception and coercion. Take inspiration from hitch-hiker horror films.

>>93960603
dark age realized that not all ventrues are rapists so why should all ravnos be just khalil ravana and put some more variety on clan curse related to some bloodlines they added

Alexandrites are scholars who tend to obsess with knowledge and also often hoard it, still not very well liked because they often steel that knowledge

the Phaedymites are knights who are often used as couriers by vampires in dark europa and their clan weakness always has something to do with honor or chivalry examples are like frenzy if you can't protect a allies honor or roll willpower or be forced to uphold the ideals of the road of chivalry aka you need to roll willpower to be able to sin against your road

>>93960847
>Alexandrites are scholars who tend to obsess with knowledge and also often hoard it, still not very well liked because they often steel that knowledge
NTA, but what happened to those guys?
Did they all have Auspex like Brahmin ravnos?

>>93960921
they are still around in egypt they 4th gen founder Ramessu managed to personally stay awake and keep most of the domains they grabbed while set and horus been fighting all the way to the renaissance but as far as we knew they never joined the ashira and the setites hate them so i guess they mostly keep to themselves. We also sadly aren't told how badly the week of nightmares was for them, but we are told that all 4th gen ravnos are dead so that includes their founder

and they are founded the same 4th gen who founded the Vaisyas caste so no relation to brahmin ravnos i am afraid

>>93952855
I agree with >>93953842, but I'm going to say it's not just "something for people who didn't read previous editions": Renegade's writting within itself is lazy. A good example is how they talk about Methuselah in their section: It has no substance and not even a character sheet (even if a simplified one) to help STs. They want to make things vague and mysterious, but don't know how. If we compare to that methuselah in Requiem that has the power to say a thing and make it happen, quality in writting is very different.
But we don't need to go further. Compare Methuselah section with character's section in Chicago V5: OPP writers re-wrote all character's backgrounds from previous Chicago books instead of doing a vague work. Renegade could do the same with pre-estabilished Methuselah.
Other supplements as well from Renegade gives same vibes: Everything seems unpolished and lazy. I think the only exception is that big adventure book released this year, "Crimson Gutter".

>>93960745
That's why I always liked the Kinyonyi take on the curse. Every two weeks they stay within one domain they are spurred to say something to fuck up their relationship with one of the important people, and every month after incurs a further penalty on the dice roll that determines if they do. However the V5 version leaves the has the playability. A PC can skulk around a given area for as long as they like given they maintain a number of havens to switch around between.

File: 354636.jpg (26 KB, 540x257)

26 KB JPG

For anyone interested

Curseborn shit. Interview with gentleman goymer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tno6bAw-Or4

>>93961080
given how much he is involved in the marketing i am surprised that they didn't make him present the families on his yt channel

>>93960607
>How many Vampires are there worldwide?
It depends, most guesses I remember of the top of my head say something like 6-8 million if Chicago or Montreal are anything to go by.

>>93961080
Thanks.

>>93960607
I got around 4-7 million, by estimating the number of vamps in a single main clan and then multiplying up, and adding more to account for bloodlines. This number excludes thinbloods. I'd put woofs even lower if you're using 2020s numbers, like 300k max including BSDs

>>93961124
His revival of talking about V5 is connected to their Kickstarter. People would rather pay them to get a promise of a V5 video, than actually have him talk about the game.

>>93961364
Vamps should definitely be the secondmost-populated splat after Wraith. They're a plague.

>>93960607
Around 800k-900k, I use 1 vamp per 10,000 humans

File: IMG_0926.png (449 KB, 800x450)

449 KB PNG

>>93953405
Tremere is not my Antedeluvian and probably a demon worshipper as well! Knightly virtues and crusades, not lying and spells, ok?!
Praise Saulot!

>>93961489
If it makes you feel any better, Fortitude is a much more important, if not the most important, combat discipline in V5. Salubri are the second-best warrior clan after Ventrue.

>>93950576
But I like the giovanni. What's wrong with them?

>>93961586
I HATE-A DA NORT!

File: IMG_2440.jpg (77 KB, 748x486)

77 KB JPG

>>93961517
Did not know it was that cool competetive wise, but I did create a Putanesca Goomba throwback as a Lahmia Fortitude/Potence stand in gor V5.
I really like what they did with disciplines in V5, even though I strongly dislike some of the changes they made story wise. In general, it seems to me they wanted to make it into nWoD (Masquerade Edition) which vindicates me liking nWoD but also shat a tad on the lore which made Masquerade special. It is a wierd beast, bought the basic, Chicago and Blood Cults books with the Hecata etc but got turned off after that sadly. I can still enjoy it but I guess I just got burnt out as a consoomer as I am getting older I guess.
In regards to Salubri there is a great fan made pdf that adapts the warrior disciplines for Valere or did I forget that they were handled allready? My group still plays V20.

Best Warrior Clan sounds great, to be honest. I love what they did with Fortitude and Potence.

https://youtu.be/cj2HvGPv0XM?si=ZCgvKdBDf-LhZ9X-

>>93961364
What calculation did you use? 50% of the question is the answer but the other 50% is the method which you used to arrive to your conclusion.

>>93961914
>In regards to Salubri there is a great fan made pdf that adapts the warrior disciplines for Valere or did I forget that they were handled allready?

castes and bloodlines aren't really a thing in v5 so salubri are just salubri which some deciding to be healer and other deciding to not roll over and actually fight off the people who want to eat them due to their second clan curse

>>93961914
Agreed, I really like the V5 disciplines. While I think Celerity and Potence might have been nerfed too much (Potence loses most of its combat utility as soon as you decide to stop punching things and pull out a weapon), adding more utility to them makes them more appealing to everyone else. As well, as much as I understand that there is less inborne flavor from the consolidated disciplines and amalgams, the benefit is that it creates a baseline understanding of what the disciplines "are" and how they work where making new disciplines and amalgams is much easier to standardize and balance. You can choose to either use this new framework in the lore and, for example, move away from the idea that there can be an intuitive element of Vicissitude, or decide there's a hard line between stats and lore.

>>93962025
If there's one thing I dislike about V5 it's that they mixed Obtenebration and Necromancy into one discipline. Well that and that using it always brings the risk of a stain.

>>93962014
Cutting back on Castes is pretty sad, tzey would help fluff them out more like they do as an optional thing with the Hecata or when they created the Assamite castes to have them be less „ooga booga assassin“ stereotypes.

>>93962025
Just riffing off this, if you want to integrate V5 into the lore retroactively, here's a mockup of the Draconian Tzimisce and their descendents, the Obertus Knights:
>More mystical and reflective than their materially-concerned, northern cousins, the Dracon's brood seeks communion with the Beast to form a duophysite hypostasis within the Cainite. Refined from their meditations, a Draconic monk may exchange their access to Protean as an inborne discipline for Auspex. They work with their peers to fully explore the common source of the Beast and Man through their disciplines as Vicissitude is worked upon them.
>As an ascetic rejection of the deviant blood sorceries of their kin, and self-deprivation from the excesses of their Akoimentai ancestors, an Obertus Knight may exchange Protean for Auspex. They take to the frontlines of the Gehenna War by wielding their esoteric mastery of the multi-part Cainite soul to twist their enemies and locate the sleeping elders.

>>93962162
Also agreed, the Oblivion combo was poorly done. It can work in concept, but needs much refining. Even Blood Sorcery is justified by saying that this version of Thaumaturgy is more about mastery of vitae itself, rather than it being the source and focus of magic. Much more work needs to be done to explain why the shadow realm is now also the ghost zone, and what that means for both previous disciplines.

>>93962166
they adding them back in slowly (as they do most things vtm...), but the thing in v5 seems to be that your caste is a choice: assamite sorcerer is a loresheet and you gain a free dot of potence upon joining the Cohort of Wepwawet (the warrior setite cult) so the later kinda work like a vtr bloodline with 4 disciplines

>>93962295
True, but it does not replace Warrior Valeren. Revenge of Samiel and Armour of Caine‘s Fury were prwtty cash.

>>93962510
One really sensible addition that could be made for Warrior Salubri in V5 is to simply reverse the effect of Obeah/Panacea. Instead of healing willpower damage, it's a psychic beam that directly damages willpower.

>>93962718
Maybe, it is still homebrew and some cuys put a lot of work into 5ing Valeren so all is well on that front for me.

>>93962255
>why the shadow realm is now also the ghost zone
They basically changed Lasombra tapping into the shadow abyss to Oblivion of Wraith fame

>>93961952
Eh, diablerie throws such a massive spanner in the works that I just assumed each generation stemming from an ante has 3 surviving members per generation that didn't get there through diablerie, then accounted for diablerie by guestimating.
If you account for diablerie with maths then the numbers become even larger than that, (one extra methuselah adds another fuck tonne vampires to that clan, alone, never mind what an extra 4 5th gens does). So yeah you can assume that vampires are damn everywhere, forget that 1 in 100,000 number, it's bogus.

>>93950576
>>93953275
I'm not too familiar with the clans outside of the playable ones in bloodlines. What is your reasoning for not wanting those ones?

>>93963335
Generations is a dumb mechanic and a dumb plot beat. I'm glad Requiem got rid of it.

File: file.png (2.92 MB, 2000x2000)

2.92 MB PNG

>>93950576
>Ravnos
How dare you

>>93964094
Ask the other guy, he probably thinks they have bad themes or re cliche/badly done.
I lik em.

>>93964104
V5 might as well have done it to, considering the game penalizes your ass for being of a too low generation and removed all advantages of it (like being immune to Dominate from someone that's of higher gen). I also rather like blood potency forcing kindred into torpor. Makes for a more dynamic landscape so to speak.