/5eg/, what's an interesting way I can make divine spells work? I'm thinking divine spells work sort of like pact magic, except they automatically succeed

What are your thoughts on unwinnable encounters?

I'm using a kraken for my final boss and I'd like to have it make an appearance early in the campaign and attack the players as they travel by ship. They're level 3 so there's no way they could win. There's a shipwrecked adventure I'd use to get them back on track after that.

Would you be bummed out you were thrown into a no-win scenario and feel railroaded, or would it make your characters motivated to kill it?

>>93948574
>Work better the more you adhere to your god.
>If you don't commune or pray for a day lose all abilities.
>God tells you specifically what spells you will use and that's that.

>>93948588
If they know that you plan encounters like that from time to time, they'll be a lot more likely to flight not fight. But if everything you put up against them is beatable in every other scenario, that might confuse them into a tpk unless you spill the beans.

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>>93948588
Unwinnable encounters are interesting if there's something the party can actually achieve in them. If it's just "flail ineffectually at the bad guy until the DM hits SetAllPlayerHP_0", then it gets pretty dull.

>>93948610
They're pretty smart and know that not everything can be beaten and that I don't care about encounter balance since they can always scout/flee/dump scrolls of fireball. That said I might have it withdraw if they hit a certain damage threshold (maybe 80?) then have them try to outmaneuver the storm it summons

>>93948588
>unwinnable encounters
redefine winning
if you chose combat against a kraken at level 1, you will die
if you chose fleeing instead, you can win

the important part is to have
1. encounters that are not only to death combat, but other types
2. understanding from players of the above

>>93948648
A Kraken wouldn't even blink at 80 damage, but maybe it's just hunting a whale nearby and doesn't actually mess with the party at all beyond breaking their boat. If they choose to fight, have it run not because it's damaged, but because it truly doesn't care about the group in the first place.

>>93948588
I'm glad I refreshed because >>93948668 is the correct post
surviving that encounter is "winning" it (i.e. achieving the objective of the encounter)

>>93948682
>maybe it's just hunting a whale nearby and doesn't actually mess with the party at all beyond breaking their boat
That could work, but my general idea is it's keeping boats away from a certain island in order to replace the population with deep scions and sahuagin and establish a base for further conquest.

80 is a little low though given it has nearly 500hp

>>93948719
So the kraken is intelligent or at least working for a group that is intelligent? Interesting... What if since the party is so low level, let the kraken be a force in the distance, even one that breaks their boat, but have the intelligent creatures drive the party away. A dozen or so fish men and your party should realize it's unwinnable.

>>93948639
>>93948588
seems especially fitting here, you could have them trying to save supplies, equipment or npcs determining if they're better or worse off in the stuff you have planned afterwards.

>>93948758
Kraken have an intelligence of 22, have telepathy and (lorewise but not in their statblock) can create minions, they're a BBEG masquerading as dumb muscle.

>>93948648
>>93948719
honestly there is nothing wrong with just saying "during the last leg of your voyage your boat got krakened, you awaken stranded on this island" if there's not going to be any real decision making during its attack
skipping to the part of the game where they have more agency is a-okay

>>93948588
damagewise they can probably do somehting decent with the ships guns.
But I'm pretty sure a kraken oneshots level 3 characters. So unless it's exclusively attacking the ship, they're actually fucked rather than "unkillable encounter" fucked.

anyways, like >>93948668 says, encounters don't have to have "fight until one side dies" as the goal.
just "thwart their goal" and "don't get your goal thwarted," "convince it that continuing its goal is ouchies so it's not worth it or at the very least leaves for now" or "survive/delay X round until something happens" even just "survive, period." are also valid.

I know it's kind of a cardinal sin to /5eg/, but there is actually a lot of shared design elements of vidya vs ttrpg you can steal from, and this would be a good example.

Flail against Bass.exe's invulnerability shield in MMBN3? Doesn't matter if you do insanely well or just stand still. Boring.

Repel Zorah Magdaros the first time before you're strong enough to kill it proper? Hella fun.

Dealing with The Hunter in Dead Space or SA-X in Metroid Fusion, where you can't kill it (you do eventually kill SA-X, but only right before you blow the station up), but you can evade it, hide from it, and slow it down long enough to escape? Tense and exciting, even terrifying.

>>93948930
>damagewise they can probably do somehting decent with the ships guns
It's immune to non-magical bludgeoning

>>93948944
oh yeah, lol.

maybe have it inflict some knockback then.

how the fuck do y'all balance cantrips

>>93949010
They are balanced.

>>93949010
what makes you afraid of them?

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>>93949010
Like so.

>>93949010
Unironically, all the non-damaging cantrips are more worldchanging than the damaging ones.

>>93949010
by remembering that weapon attacks get stat and also that most classes using weapons over cantrips even get mastery properties on top.

>eldritch blast
warlock is an honorary martial, a class for people who like the straightforward damage focus of martials but want to play a caster, in the same way that monk is an honorary caster, for people who like all the resource bookkeeping and ally support and tactical calculus of casters but want to play a martial.

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Has anybody here played Tomb of annihilation? my players are lv5, do i need to change too many stuff to adapt the rest of the adventure if i want to give one player a broom of flying? or does flying breaks the module?

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>>93948588
Would depend on the lose condition desu. An example would be when I was dming for a party a few years back and they were facing off against a demon lord that broke its way into the material plane. They would have had an actual chance by wall of forcing him and other forms of cc, but given they failed to stop the corruption of the island they were on he caused and his armies of demons were marching on them during the fight with each round, the party was delaying the inevitable and forced to flee and regroup elsewhere, which the party was fine with.

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What abilities would you add onto a normal intellect devourer that looks like this?

>>93949268
AoE Screech of some sort and a way to summon normal intellect devourers.

>>93949268
>Draining Kiss. The fiend kisses a creature charmed by it or a willing creature. The target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw against this magic, taking 32 (5d10 + 5) psychic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The target's hit point maximum is reduced by an amount equal to the damage taken. This reduction lasts until the target finishes a long rest. The target dies if this effect reduces its hit point maximum to 0.

>>93949268
spiderclimb and a jumping pounce

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>>93948588
>>93948719
>>93948820
I appreciate the additional thought you're putting into, by what everything you've mentioned, seems like Saltmarsh, which I'm also running right now. Shit, this is giving me ideas for the same fight myself.

Maybe, depending on the situation, have some sort of magical weapon or ammo they're transporting coincidentally? I agree with the posts of "make sure a goal is met even if the fight is a failure." Make it clear in the first few rounds the ship is going down, but they have to protect the aforementioned magic-yet-sealed cargo, or try and gather survival supplies for the inevitable shipwreck instead of them getting destroyed/dumped in the sea. Maybe have it crack the chest of whatever item to give the players the idea to use it, fire it off, spook the Kraken enough to make it disengage, and then deal with the remaining rough landing/shipwreck.

That's my best idea offhand having not reached that encounter yet, but hope it ends up fun, anon.

>>93949150
Are you playing online? If so, then the only thing it's going to break is everyone's patience as you swap maps over for just one person.

>>93949347
Isn't that only if they constantly decide to go up and down the central stairs on their own? Otherwise, most of the floors are pretty self-contained.

>>93949385
>Isn't that only if they use the magic item I gave them
Yes

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>>93949068
>warlock is an honorary martial
>monk is an honorary caster
>mfw those are my favourite classes
What did I mean by this?

>>93949523
You're a deeply confused individual and probably marriage material.

Piratefag here. I want to build up the return of the daughter of the noble the party killed and who seemingly died as well. I plan to have her use her patron she made a deal with not for any sort of combat, but to gather information, inconvenience, stalk, and overall work in the background to eventually strike when they're most vulnerable and try to kill them. I'm giving her shit like disguise self, invisibility, and other non-combat spells to help her accomplish this.
Sound neat? Suggestions?

>>93949523
Dunno, are you into tomboy muscle mommies and femboy twinks?

Seems like you like peanut butter in your chocolate and chocolate in your peanut butter.

>>93949629
If you're making her an actual warlock, the chain familiar like imps are great for spying and messing with people. Don't discount the value of an invisible, intelligent minion with wings and thumbs.

How's 6e going? Are you going to buy the new books?

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>>93949672
I had a slightly different idea.

>>93949663
I was thinking of having her sneak aboard the party's ship when they go hire new crew ala disguise self. Any things I need to look out for in terms of making sure her cover isn't blown?

>>93949707
Why sneak aboard their ship when you can just make sure one of their new hirelings is a plant? Keeping a degree of separation between her and the party lets the party solve a few mysteries without the plot-line immediately ending.

>>93949672
I've dming it since the first pdfs dropped, i don't think it can stand on it's own, so i use spells and all the 5e stuff with it, also in some cases like conjure and summoning spells i let players use the old versions if they want, etc..

>>93949735
I sort of intend for her to disguise herself and get to know the party as a seemingly talkative new crew member. Therefore she can use some background hooks from the PCs to lure one or two while they're separated into a deadly situation.

>>93949757
That's a perfectly fine way for her to ambush the party so don't be shy about doing it if that's what you're set on. My point is this though: If I'm a noble lady, I want to be doing the thing that I am best at, and probably the only thing I'm good at. I'm making other people do things for me.

>>93949672
my current campaign is mostly 3rd party or homebrew. I will not even think about buying the new books till all 3 are available

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>>93949268
Give it something akin to a ghost possession where it goes full Alien facehugger and latches onto someone's head to take control of them until someone other than the controlled character (if they fail the save) yanks them off the person's head or the player character goes unconscious.

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>>93949629
Lot more subterfuge, plans within plans influenced by a patron who is of that bent. Hell, maybe the Noble himself or something he had a deal with. I know that's less mechanical, but look at Cleric Trickery domain and maybe pilfer some from there? I'm getting strong "Anastasia taking up Rasputin's mantle" vibes. I know you asked for non-combat, but an application of False Life or something to fake another death followed by another resurrection may be fun.

Remember, it is tempting to build them like characters and good as a thought exercise/balance, but if she's a real threat, she has to be leveled above the players, and can break the rules, as it were. I liked the Imp suggestion and maybe further invisible servants and those types of spells to give the impression of telekinetic power, but it's more "Noble and Servants" sort of things bolstered by intangible forces. And some sorts of charm/command spells.

>>93950209
>but if she's a real threat, she has to be leveled above the players

You can do this with magic items rather than hard stats.

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>>Treantmonk did the damage calculations for the 2024 Rogue vs the Warlock Baseline
>The Rogue build was a subclass-less Rogue with True Strike using a Light Crossbow and not using Cunning Strike
>It was 56% over the baseline
>2014 Rogue with Crossbow Expert + Fighting Initiate Archery + Sharpshooter (Which he stopped factoring in when it started losing damage) was at 31% over baseline
This tells me that the Rogue could have used an extra 1d6 at levels 5, 11, and 17.

>>93950294
Averages are stupid, so is treantmonk.

>>93950294
true strike builds are the baseline pretty much, they're also lame

>>93950294
why would a rogue go truestrike over handcrossbow expert?

>>93950495
because

>2024
and a feat investment+bonmus action vs a background investment and no bonus action is no contest.

>>93950294
I want to build a 2024 rogue with 1 level fighter dip, GWM and an oversized longbow for lotsd6+10ish damage

>>93950294
Christ! Is this the real, actual art for the 5.5 Rogue? Holy hell she's the ugliest fucking bitch I've ever seen. The art isn't even good

>Fighting Style Feat (Prerequisite: Fighting Style Feature)

I feel like this was a massive blunder on WotC. So many cool ideas squashed because you need to take a lvl1 dip in fighter instead of just investing a feat

>>93950670
Well, the best one by far was Blind Fighting, and that got folded into Skulker.

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>>93950685
archery and Two-weapon are strong options, and dueling, thrown, and defensive are solid options as well.

protection style got a buff, it really does help you protect someone. And interception is like baby version of monk's deflect attacks, since you can use it on yourself.

>>93950648
Looks like a normal rogue player to me. What's wrong with it?

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>>93950648
it's VERY hit or miss. Some art is great, some is terrible.

>archfey patron contract
>power and knowledge in exchange for the stealing the rush / feelings of an exciting encounter, living through a dangerous situation, or experiencing an intense fear
>patron is actually just an adrenaline and dopamine junkie looking for their next fix
>pressures warlock to get into increasingly dangerous situations to experience greater highs
Would you play it? DM having the patron steal the fight-or-flight feeling at an inopportune time during a major fight could make for some interesting encounters

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Do you guys use any music for inspiration when coming up with ideas or randomly came up with any while listening to music? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27n796LAaE

>>93951107
I came up with a whole abandonned forest temple to a goddess of birds and music and they had to find the parts of the secret music to play to open the vault
then they tpkd inside

>>93951107

>Combat success condition :escape with your lives

https://youtu.be/6uMNnZtIS6s?t=31

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If a player wants to mindlessly charge forward and murderhobo even when the rest of the party thinks that's a terrible idea, the correct play is to let him mindlessly charge to his death while the party watches him reroll his character via game action.

>>93951313
Yes

>>93950785
Now that it's a core subclass they'll give soulknife core magic item support too, right? Haha...

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The knight will be powered down (rapier instead of greatsword, half-plate plus shield and a small dex boost for the same AC, leadership aura will require actions to maintain), but the acolytes are going to be more offensively oriented with their spells.

Not sure how optimized the party will be because we're remaking in 2024 before the session, but they're solidly tactical thinkers. I think they'll be okay.

>>93950294
True strike uses caster stats so it's shit on half casters but yes rogues need an extra d6 of dmg

>>93952133
What would be the best caster stat to main on rogue? I'm thinking wisdom in general, you can take true strike from druid iirc.

>>93952224
Nothing just go poisoner feat and dex

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Unshod Monk Novice Girl

STR 12
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 12

HP 11
AC 15
Speed 30

Proficiencies
Athletic
Acrobatics

Saves
STR
DEX

Multiattack
Unshod Monk Novice Girl can make 2 unarmed strikes on their turn

Unarmed Strike 1d4+3

Unarmored Defense
Unshod Monk Novice Girl adds their Wisdom mod to their AC

>>93952339
Are monks now better than unarmed fighters?

>>93952272
If poison isn't as bad a damage type in old 5e, I guess.

>>93948537
Anyone got a good form-fillable 5e 2024 character sheet? Wanted to put the stuff that isn't going to change down digitally before I print it off.

Does 5etools have the option switch back to 2014 rules?

This metal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K70nC0FbxiU

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>>93952514
Now, having not fully dove into 5.24, what would be appreciably different? Really, everything should be covered by an old one, unless you specifically want slots for feats/fighting styles or something now or go more class-specific or have "Species" on there instead of race or whatever. I don't even ask to be a dick, I just legitimately wonder since I made a lot of effort to adjust form-fillable ones before and might look into it if it actually works different.

I always like to do the same with mine, anon, so I get it. Here's a fillable adjustment I made to the /tg/ sheet a little bit back; could this work or what needs fixing?

>>93952620
Yes, scroll down to the very bottom, and around the "FAQs" section there's a bit about "other versions" and a link to the 2014-only version. Which I can now backup as a "complete" copy and had to update all my bookmarks/links to go to directly instead of getting confused down the line, kek. You otherwise seem to be able to just put "2014." before the rest of the URL and get it.

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Would you rather cast chromatic orb or chain lightning?

Chain lighting deals 10d8 lightning reflex half and can hit up to 4 targets

Chromatic Orb lv6 deals 8d8 any element, Attack roll, if you roll any repreat number it bounces hitting up to 7 targets.

>>93952423
Poisoner got a nice buff, where when you make a damage roll that uses poison, it ignores poison resistances. Sure, you're still dealing with immunities more often than not but still nice. You can also make prof bonus amount of poison with 1 hour with 50 gold, that does 2d8 poison damage and the DC for it scales with (probably) your Dex mod and prof bonus

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>>93953071
;)

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>>93953193
>>93953071
Actually I feel like they didn't think how broken this spell could be if you really want to meme it up

>>93953071
>reflex
Hi older edition / Pathfinder friend.

>>93952339
Too cute to kill

>>93952346
definitely.

In the new rules, if you knock a creature back with push weapon mastery off of a cliff (One square away from the level ground), do they get a save or immediately start to fall?

I didn't see anything that said they don't provoke AoO from allies as well. Can anyone clarify?

>>93953649
Forced movement never provokes, and there is no save for being pushed off a ledge.

Maybe I'm just having new edition bad old edition good woes, but is there actually anything good about this new revised 5e? A lot of unique spells lost their uniqueness, a lot of the varied power spikes from the classes are gone because everyone gets their class features at the same level now, weapon mastery is convoluted and not as impactful as just giving all martials Battle Master's Maneuvers, several weird changes to old subclasses that make them not work how they used to, Druid in general is somehow more of a cluster fuck to the point where I'm glad they didn't try to put Artificer in the book, Warlock dipping was somehow made worse and even more all encompassing. It really feels like they this was made by people who legitimately do not play the game.

>>93953071
Upcast it to force rerolls, so you get maximum bounce.

>>93953312
I will never understand why they have someone in a wheelchair when the setting they're in probably already has perfectly functioning prosthetic legs.

>>93953727
i love that they're in a wheelchair with stairs on both sides. must have been one hell of a bumpy ride down.

>>93953733
Maybe they group is fighting because the wheelchair person can't quickly escape down the stairs.

>>93953727
Whoa. Bigoted much?

>>93953754
I am god's most racist DM.

>>93953649
Opp Attacks require a creature to be using its Action, Bonus Action, Reaction, or one of its speeds to trigger in 5.5. Same as 5e just with the weirdness that it might not technically need to be hostile some people are reading into it in 5.5. To my knowledge there is RAW no save for being Push Masteried off a cliff, same as with Repelling Blast or Crusher (idea for build, Repelling Blast on Booming Blade with Push Mastery and Crusher Feat, absolutely grand slam someone out of there, possibly over a cliff, then if they willingly move take the secondary boom. Could be fun?)

>>93953312
This is the future and anyone against it is an incel.

>>93953745
If the party is getting stuck in ambushes due to your inability to safely proceed down stairs, then I think your share of the loot has officially been earmarked to pay for a new leg, or a visit to a high-level cleric.

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>>93953795
Can't be, there's no ray guns or jetpacks or anything. Or is it like Might and Magic, where it's technically science fiction, but society has regressed to an earlier level of culture and technology?

>>93953693
I liked getting some subclasses at level 1. My go to was Forge Cleric, and being able to craft was integral to my backstory. If they add proficiency at level 3, that makes very little sense to me.
Honestly, I'd have preferred everyone getting subclass at level 1 across the board.
If they're afraid of multiclass power creep, make less combat focused abilities at the low levels and add some utility.

>>93953693
>Maybe I'm just having new edition bad old edition good woes, but is there actually anything good about this new revised 5e?
A lot of new additions, weapon balancing, leaning more towards melee power than ranged, increasing martial power and combat contribution
>A lot of unique spells lost their uniqueness,
agreed, this was a step back.
>a lot of the varied power spikes from the classes are gone because everyone gets their class features at the same level now
And that's a good thing.
>weapon mastery is convoluted
No it isn't.
>and not as impactful as just giving all martials Battle Master's Maneuvers
It is impactful, but you're comparing what we got to your idealized version of something we never had. That's stupid.
>several weird changes to old subclasses that make them not work how they used to
You're going to have to be specific. This just looks like a filler complaint because you couldn't think of anything and wanted to pad out your post.
>Druid in general is somehow more of a cluster fuck
Vague again. What part? Aside from the nerfs (which I agree, were heavy-handed) I think the actual mechanical changes were good
>to the point where I'm glad they didn't try to put Artificer in the book
artificer isn't in the book because they didn't want to include magic items in the PHB.
>Warlock dipping was somehow made worse and even more all encompassing.
I don't think it was made worse. It was made weaker, but with more variety.
hexblade gave everyone:
-all martial weapon training
-light armor training
-medium armor training
-shield training
-the shield spell
-crit range modifier
-cha to weapon attack and damage rolls
Which was a fucking lot. Now you get the last line, or a different invocation, else but everything else you need from other options
>It really feels like they this was made by people who legitimately do not play the game.
Same could be said for 2014.

>>93953828
Can still get all of the Hexblade things with the backwards compatibility rules (until/ unless they publish a 5.5 Hexblade that could potentially work differently), but requires a three level dip rather than just one which is probably more reasonable

An interesting oddity, I think strict RAW the backwards compatibility rules technically break any 5e Monk subclasses that let you burn Ki ro so something with 5.5 Monks since they technically don't have Ki to use on the thing and I don't think it's ever explicitly said that Focus and Ki are interchangeable in the rules. You'd have to be the most literal minded dumbass to actually *run* it that way, the intent is obvious, but I think that's technically the RAW

>>93953905
>but requires a three level dip rather than just one which is probably more reasonable
Exactly.

>>93953828
I'm one of the few people that think melee in 5e was strong even though it had less options than ranged, just that it took more burden of knowledge of when to play switch hitting. I suppose the variety increase in melee options by the new revision is a good thing though, so that's good.

On the varied power spikes, I think you and I have a different idea of the game then. I liked that I could count on specific classes to be very strong at certain levels. That asymmetry of power on the level by level made the game a bit more interesting to me.

I should have been more specific with my weapon mastery complaint. Weapon mastery as a concept itself is fine, it's the weapon and shield juggling that this version of the system causes in optimized situations that is convoluted. My argument is that they should be trying to make the idealized version. If they can't design something better than the obvious, just do the obvious.

It's not filler, it's just too much to detail in a small post and I was specifically trying to not pad out my post too much. This extends to the subclasses and Druid. One off the top of my head is Illusion Wizard's Malleable Illusion being replaced by new "summoning" spells.

Pact of the Blade SADness is a one level dip for everyone still, which was the main draw.

>>93954012
NTA but I guess I also didn't consider the power differences at specific levels to be a feature. Fighter at specifically level 6 being as strong as it is seemed like a negative to me, but if you're designing a story or dungeon while knowing that you have a level 6 Fighter then I can see how it would be useful to have an obvious key player.

>start new campaign
>couple players trying to get me to use the new rulebook
Nigga why don't YOU run a game with them?
Oh wait I know why, because it's one fucking book, no DMG, no MM, and no TEN years of content created by yourself and others to draw from.
I'm not gonna be your goddamn guinea pig

>>93953312
>there are literally stairs in the image
Makes me chuckle everytiem

>>93954310
>he can't deal with some patches to a game he's familiar with
lol, lmao even.

>>93953312
>>93954341
how does the wheelchair guy get up and down the stairs has the same vibe as
>how does the centaur go up the ladder?

>>93954310
you can still use the majority of the old stuff, you know that right? The game didn't magically turn into pf2e or something

>>93954310
>three year campaign
>players hear about new PHB
>oh wow, are we gonna be using any of these new rules, anon?
>”nah, I think we’d best just stick with what we’ve been using”
>alright sounds good
I can’t imagine this going any other way than it did for me

>>93954361
dude just gets up out of the chair, he's just a lazy fuck who rolls around when he can

>>93954360
>p-p-please buy our content
>we know the community has provided more and better fixes than this shit we slapped together in less than a year, but don't you want to support your favorite small business?

>>93954361
Ladders are at least less common than stairs. The wheelchair guy has actual trouble in his day to day life, unlike the centaur who just has to deal with a dump truck of an ass.

>>93954310
I'm gonna go with the new rules in my next game. It's newish so I don't think the vanilla would be too flavorless at this point.

>>93950648
Why would a beautiful girl have to resort to any roguish activity in the first place?
I hate force-fed diversity as much as the next guy, but wanting all and every female from orc to grandma to be baby faced anime girl is equally fucking lame.
She looks like an ugly gupsy. An average rogue.

>>93954391
don't horses also shit everywhere? And they have a horse and a human half so they probably needs LOADS of calories

>>93954310
>be dm for normies
>players dont know anything about the rules except what i tell them
ez, your problem is letting your players have access to information
i am god to my players
we could be playing pathfinder while I tell them it's 5e they would believe it

>>93954388
>can't afford a book
you need a handout or something?

>>93954388
>buy
lol. lmao even. Look man, I like new book since it uses a lot of ideas from 3rd party books but I will not pretend it doesn't have it's issues, that I won't continue to use my own homebrew for good chunks of it or that I will buy the books, but it's really not too big of a change from 2014 and some classes got new toys that your players might like.

>>93954310
i was in the middle of a Toa game and i just started using the 2024 rules as soon as the first pdfs came out, it's compatible.

>>93954419
Never bought anything after 3e, feels good.

>>93953693
There's not a lot of good to it. It changed very little overall, and the few good changes it has are balanced out by the few bad changes it made. I think the overall net neutral of it combines with the struggle of having to unlearn what you already know to make an negative experience. Definitely not worth paying sixty dollars for.

>>93954012
>On the varied power spikes, I think you and I have a different idea of the game then. I liked that I could count on specific classes to be very strong at certain levels. That asymmetry of power on the level by level made the game a bit more interesting to me.

Might be more interesting, but for others it would be harder to balance for others.

>>93952133
You just build the Rogue around INT/WIS/CHA and still have a 14 or 16 DEX, you will cap your Dexterity eventually, but you'll cap your INT/WIS/CHA first.

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>>93950294
>This tells me that the Rogue could have used an extra 1d6 at levels 5, 11, and 17.
I will say, that the risk involved in this is that you also buff the hypothetical Rogue baseline True Strike build which could mean pushing that 56% over baseline to potentially 80+% over baseline which sounds like it would out-damage Fighters and Barbarians which Rogue's probably shouldn't be doing.

>>93950294
>True Strike is ranged Booming Blade
These designers are fucking idiots.

>>93954478
Same, except I've literally never bought anything from wizards

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>>93953693
I'm with you 100% anon. I actually wondered if I'd made this post half-asleep for how dead on it is for my thoughts. I prefer certain classes getting their things earlier than others thematically, since especially for Warlocks/Clerics it makes no goddamn sense for them not to. Weapon Mastery is a step in the right direction, but it being so heavily weapon-dependent and requiring you to reference two different spots in the book, really, to learn, instead of allowing player agency/build choice to add in BM maneuvers for everyone in some way, which is widely-homebrewed and accepted as good (Like you said - if you can't best the obvious, just do the obvious).

Ranger sucks in a way they could've avoided by just tuning up the Tasha's version. The new character sheets are messy. Spells are all over the place. Some classes have reworked mechanics nobody asked for that are either confusing yet even to where they were, or worse. The subclass choices are fucking bizarre, with some great or having everything that really got used, and then bizarre choices like taking Bard back to 90% music and fucking DANCE instead of a more varied, diverse, semi-martial set of options, and Wizards starting with like 1/3rd of the specializations that have always been a thing.

That being said, there are some great QoL things. I love that they put class spell lists by the actual classes. I don't love the changes they're doing to monster abilities, but the new formats for them are good. Items actually having descriptions/uses listed (Though the DC's and narrow definitions of a few need tuning), and BA potions/thrown items as part of attacks/etc. is a boon. And defined improvised weapons. Plus, the feat adjustments are great across the board, though I still prefer just allowing a free Lv1 feat over attaching specific ones to backgrounds.

The question is if this is easier to just houserule backwards than deal with the bullshit. Which I think is the case compared to $60+ for new books.

>>93953693
>It really feels like they this was made by people who legitimately do not play the game.
It's the pool of people they got feedback from. Mostly youtubers and the like. Which is why shit like weapon mastery is a thing but force cage, goodberry and tiny hut remain the same despite how many people complain about them
It's not that they don't play it's that they've never played it like presumably you do.

>>93954839
>force cage
was changed btw

I like the weapon masteries but I think they went about it backwards. Instead of getting mastery with a specific weapon, you should get the mastery property itself. Instead of each weapon having a specific mastery property, it should have qualities that allow you to apply those masteries. As an example:
>Vex requires a long blade
>Topple requires an axe blade
>Push requires the heavy property
>Sap requires a polearm

So in this example a halberd can be used to topple, push, or sap, and a glaive can be used to vex, push, or sap. This would feel much better for player expression, in my opinion.

>>93955031
I see weapon mastery as weapon expertise

Proficiency with martial weapons, expertise with a specific weapon

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>>93955031
I actually like that a lot. It should've been tactics/maneuvers/character-based, but that is a good way to go about it while making the weapons specific to it. That might be a solid homebrew if someone folds it together at some point.

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>>93950294
>that face
Bleak. Would something like picrel be impossible for the average WoTC artist to draw?

>>93953793
Battle Master levels or the Martial Adept Feat for Pushing Attack too. That's 10 for Repelling Blast, 10 for Push Mastery, 5 for Crusher, and if they fail the save for Pushing Attack 15 more. That's potentially pushing someone 40 feet away (and since Crusher doesn't specify a direction might be able to have that trigger first for "up" to change the angle "directly away from you" is to knocking them in the air a couple tens of feet for fall damage even if there's no handy cliff, but that bit's potentially too cheesy?). Any other bits that can be stacked on the same attack to push someone further away I'm forgetting? Definitely not going to be the most optimized build, but just grand slamming someone like that would be hilarious.

>>93955367
Like someone else in the replies already said, it's very hit or miss. Aside from the flamboyant metro sexuals and small races, the art is pretty alright, I like the one for the Eldritch Knight. It's certainly lacking in the cool/rough aesthetic but it's serviceable

I like the idea of having weapon masteries as weapon specific. At least it's a way yo differentiate the wapons themselves.
2014 had the issue of weapons like the trident being redundant aside from the flavor.

i’m trying to execute a very mediocre and overdone idea as like a tutorial island to introduce a friend to the game.
i’ve got this evil wizard who trapped her in a pocket plane inside a book. the idea is he stole the book and altered its magic to trap folk inside, his ultimate goal some typical bbeg shit like kill god or become god or reverse time i’m not sure yet but he needs power.
so i’m thinking the great wizard who created the plane was once responsible for the destruction of a city, on accident, and he and his students saved everyone but couldn’t undo the damage. so he made the pocket plane as a place to test his magics and creations with less risk.
i’m thinking he was betrayed and trapped in his own plane, but still had a great amount of control, allowing him to make time pass much more slowly. so the evil wizard began taking people from outskirts and farms a couple weeks ago in the real world, but several years have elapsed in the pocket plane while good wizard and his students work to find the corrupted “pages” of the enchantment that binds them. a couple thousand people have been trapped at this point and the good wizard has created a hidden city to protect them from the dangers.
i’m thinking at some point the evil wizard discovers whats going on and sends in some henchmen as the plot escalates, eventually they win and fight the evil wizard and the good wizard rewards the player with 1 wish spell.

anything I can do to make it less corny?

>>93955692
Nah, man, lean into the corniness, make that shit Kingdom Hearts AF.

>>93955692
>he was betrayed and trapped in his own plane
/dbs/ has truly rotted my brain i genuinely laughed at this

honestly though it sounds good as-is for a premise, assuming your friend isn't someone who'd only be interested in a really gritty story. you could play up the surrealness of the world if you want to make it feel more fake. kinda gives me Oz vibes yknow. maybe the plane is like an idealized 'theme park' version of the city if remorse over it why he made it. (plus evil shit from the corruption)

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>I'm a Cleric!
>I cast Guidance!
>I cast Spiritual Weapon!
>I cast Spirit Guardians!

>>93953828
>weapon balancing
Bro, flail? Morningstar? And on the opposite end rapier is still retarded.

>>93954735
>I will say, that the risk involved in this is that you also buff the hypothetical Rogue baseline True Strike build
This is the same reason they left hunter's mark boring and inflexible. Because of a hypothetical hunter's mark hex combo build. It's so dumb.

what weapons should I add to not-eberron? Im thinking mageguns, stungloves, and t
shuriken

>>93955899
Just because there are still some problems, doesn't mean that it isn't a massive improvement. Also, rapier is fine, it doesn't jive with light weapons which are arguably stronger.

Anon-kuns, how do I find a game to play in? I've been the forever DM for all of 5e, since 2014, and want to actually play a character before everyone switches over to the 2024 rules.

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>Party is about to fight one of the BigBads and his giant undead with a sword
>Summon a Draconic spirit to fight the Undead giant with radiant damage
>Giant undead only takes half damage because it's -1 dex allowed to it dodge
>Get blasted with a fireball and lose concentration so no Undead Giant vs Dragon spirit
>Whatever, the Giant Undead went down in one round so I conjure 2 Quicklings to attack the Necromancer who summoned him
>Multiattack and both Quicklings manage to hit the guy 2 times each out their three dagger attacks
>"Dispel magic"
>ok
>See that our Bard Barbarian who spec'd wrong on purpose is geting fucking washed and will probably die soon
>Offer to Polymorphy them into an Elephant for the time being, Elephants aren't amazing but I'm trying to keep them alive while still doing damage
>Bard Barbarian obliges so I conjure eight pixies
>One pixie for the Polymorphing, one pixie to entangle the Necromancer, 2 pixies for the sleep spell, another to cast Phantasmal Force to make it appear as if there were two Goblin Rogues instead of one since our Goblin and the Necromancer have beef and would allow the Goblin to roll for the Illusion damage, one for Dispel magic and two more for whatever
>"COUNTERSPELL"

It feels like every caster we fight has Dispel magic or Counter spell that only ever get used to fuck up my Summons, phenomenal

>"At least he used up his Counterspell, right anon?"
The artificer misty spelled ontop of him while wearing a mech suit and flattened him

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>>93956230
Sorry, anon, guess your DM is into ratgirls.

>>93953312
Strahd's true curse is that every other party that meanders into Barovia has some fucker in a wheelchair. Ten they force him to go through a draining legal process to install ramps in his otherwise perfect Castle Ravenloft.

>>93954869
It wasn't?
Why bother lying about this?

>>93956342
they made it so forcecage requires concentration and consumes the ruby dust. glad you read the rules.

>>93955890
Sometimes I like to be quirky and cast Bless instead of Spirit Guardians.

>>93956382
pleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafagpleasediekillyourselfconsidersuicideyouuncreativemegafag

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>>93956342

>>93956382
Wish the cleric in my party would cast Bless. All he ever does is upcast Guiding Bolt as high as he can, and it usually misses.

Anybody got a blank Faerun map ? High quality I want to use it for my homebrew campaign

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>>93956525

>>93956582
God bless you!

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Encounter calculator says that a party of four Level 10 PCs has an “easy” matchup against 45 CR 1/8 monsters. Is that true?
45 bandits is a lot of fucking bandits, especially if they’re ambushing you in a tower or ruins or something. Action economy would be the real threat
And anything up to 80 is “medium” difficulty… Is this the danger of relying on computers and algorithms?

>>93956596
Statistically, that may pan out and they may just cleave through them and AoE it down with one-shots left and right, especially if tactically funneled through a choke point. However, I'd actually consider that a "Lethal" encounter, because both you and your players will want to kill yourselves after rolling that many initiative dice and having to sit through their turns.

>>93956596
all it takes is like two fireballs at most

>>93956596
just a word of advice, just use the average damage on hits if you plan to roll this many. I did a combat with 10 ish enemies and still bundled them in 3 groups to make movement and combat easier.

>>93956596
If they're in any sort of confined space casters win for free, up to and including walking around with spirit guardians and greater invisibility and the like.
If they're in an open area, they get absolutely obliterated by PCs who outrange them.

Even in the best case scenario, PC's can just give them all disadvantage to hit and will win by slogging it out. Bandits hit a 20 AC player 1 time in 25 with disadvantage. Bandit DPR would be (16)/400 * 5.5 + 1/400 * 4.5 (for crits) each, so 18.5 per turn for the whole group of 80 bandits together. That's not a lot. 11 * 80 is a fair amount of health to work through but it's hard to imagine the players losing even with the odds stacked so hard against them in terms of terrain and circumstance.

In 5.0 you would just Conjure something that doesn't take damage from nonmagical attacks and it would kill them all.

>>93953664
>there is no save for being pushed off a ledge.
There really should be.

>>93953693
>Warlock dipping was somehow made worse
How so?

If your're talking blade pact cha weapon access, True Strike is available to Valor Bard natively and to Paladin with an Origin feat. Shillelagh too actually.

If you're talking about Agonizing, it's level 2 prereq, so exactly the same as it was.

If your're talking Eldritch Mind... I guess? But warcaster is an objectively better way to get there anyways.

>>93956332
Grimdark at its finest.

Trully the dark powers are cruel in their punishment.

>>93953980
There's a clarification of renamed features and spells on beyond. Befuddlement and Feeblemind is a similar case

But weirdly not mobile and speedy apparently.

>>93956850
>There really should be.
I mean, if you want to house rule it, that's an easy Dex save or maybe Athletics/Strength (Make that fucking save worth SOMETHING) to grab the ledge. Still a negative since they have to use movement to climb back up/recover from prone. The effects themselves don't need it if they aren't there, though, there's far too many abilities that were practically useless because of the save values.

>True Strike
I really do wonder what the fuck whoever wrote that was thinking. Original TS was worthless and this takes up a Cantrip, sure, but it legitimately makes any spellcaster Gish-capable with extra fucking Radiant damage to boot. Could only have been better if it was force. It's somehow stronger than GFB or any of the others.

>>93957110
all of the spells that replace spells they "deleted" with replacements are pushed as fuck.

the conjures are insanely good, and true strike is good.

>It's somehow stronger than GFB or any of the others.
it's worse for EK and AT.

>>93957289
For EK maybe, but AT?
You get to scale the spell save DC without losing on damage/to hit. Flexible for both melee and ranged combat, unlike BB/GFB, meaning that you can actually stay safe from a distance.

>>93957340
Except you can't actually skimp out on dex to focus int, because it's still the main source of your AC and a good chunk of your basic roguish skills.

>>93956729
Whats the weakest “immune to nonmagical attacks” critter that a PC could reliably get their hands on?
Im not a power gamer but I bet there is a longstanding consensus on this already.

>>93957110
>Original TS was worthless
it had exactly one use case. limited resource attacks.
you get one offensive planeshift because of its slot size, better make it count.
you have one arrow of vampire slaying, because they're expensive as fuck, better make it count.

>>93957406
jackalwere

>>93956230
Based, summons are cancer

>>93957417
which also means it was the closest thing to charging your attack in 5e, and now it's gone.

no more kamehamehas.

>>93957406
Couatl comes to mind, but that's a 7th level Conjure Celestial. Earlier than that, you can use Conjure Fey at 6th level for a Yeth Hound (sunlight is a big issue). The Jackalwere is the weakest creature, along with werebeasts. Not sure if there's any magical items that hijack this. TL;DR it's a moot feature by the time you can reliably access it.

>>93956377
>>93956428
It changes nothing in hows it's used or how it works in combat? So not really a fucking change then huh?

>>93957485
>requires concentration
you fucking stupid or something?

>>93957485
>1500 one time purchase vs 1500, literally an uncommon item worth of gold, eaten every time you cast it.

>oh also it's concentration, so your ally can jsut kick them in the rib, or cast sleep, or tashas laughter, or stun them, or pretty much anything to force them to drop it early instead of lasting the whole 1 hour duration even if the caster dies.

>>93957507
>1500, literally an uncommon item worth of gold, eaten every time you cast it.
so is simulacrum

>>93957512
simulacrum isn't concentration dipshit

>>93957512
simulacrum isn't broken except when you combine it with Wish to avoid the costs and also make a million of them.

>>93957485
>>93957485
>Concentration
>Burn 1500 reagent that you may not reliably access
Those are two glaring changes for a spell you only use in a pinch. And even though the spell is completely busted, I rarely used it as a blanket answer. If your DM is stingy with reagents, it's flat out reserved for a Wish cast like Simulacrum can be.

>>93957536
Any DM that allows that is flat out retarded shy of a finger of god moment. Always veto a simulacrum simulacrum to count as a duplicate of caster's simulacrum. Otherwise, your game is eternally fucked.

>>93957573
If you can simulacrum a simulacrum then the setting already doesnt make sense. I.E. some bastard would have done it already and there’d be a council of 100 evil wizard clones who’ve already enslaved the world

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What would make official DnD modules better? In the broadest, most general of ways.

>>93957551
>the martial cuck cage costs something now
This is not a meaningful change. No DM is gonna stop you from getting spell components at level 13.
This is exactly what I mean. You do not play the same game as me.

>>93957630
according to one of my soon to be players, it needs to follow Lord of the Rings literally battle for battle.

>>93957630
Printable pawn art.

>>93957665
>stubs your toe, wasting your 7th level slot AND 1500g worth of components on 1/2 a turn of incapacitation.

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Anyone got the link to an XML for fightclub5e?
I seem to have lost it

>>93957630
Ease of use for the DM, like have them read like actual notes and not a wall of text. Then a focus on the core components that make an encounter interesting, to the point where it can easily be repurposed.

>>93957665
>No DM is gonna stop you from getting spell components at level 13.
7 encounters later, and the wizard is down 10K. Surely this is not an issue. Surely we're swimming in gemstones that beg to be hoarded by the magical elite.

>>93957630
Shorter/smaller modules limited to a couple of pages instead of books filled with bloated campaigns.

>>93957444
t. weakling

>>93948588
Most players are too stupid. Players will walk away if they aren't breezing through every encounter. The majority of people who play ttrpgs have autism and/or social disorders. They will start fudging dice rolls if they aren't hitting, they'll cheat and not remove spell slots, they'll lie about their AC, they'll cheat on damage rolls, they'll accuse you of cheating, etc.

question: what classes (existing or homebrew) would make the most sense for an eldritch setting?

>>93958091
Rogue, fighter, warlock, druid, ranger, artificer, maybe cleric

What is the best caster setup so I can be a necromancer and have a sizable army of skeletons? I've been out of the DnD sphere for a while but got invited to one recently and I'd like to be an aforementioned necromancer, but all I have on hand is a 2016 printing of the players handbook.

>>93958325
oddly enough, the necromancer is actually a pretty good necromancer. There are some things you should know though

1. don't animate zombies
2. you don't need a medium or small humanoid for skeletons
3. the most practical way to use skeletons is to dip 1 level in artificer and arm your skeletons with magic stones
4. It's technically better to have them pass around a single magical shortbow, but your DM will kick you for that

>>93958394
>mom said it's my turn on the magical shortbow

>>93958091
>an eldritch setting
What the fuck does this mean? Are you trying to lay out a plot with the same general beats as a Lovecraft story? If so, investigators, scholars and archaeologists are what you're after. You might be able to simulate that with backgrounds/origins rather than classes. Almost no protagonists in Lovecraft stories are magic-users or fighters, which basically rules out every d&d 5e class. There's a reason this type of game has its own systems with a general dedicated to them.

>>93957737
It's literally less than a percent of buying a legendary magic item. it's a total non-issue.

>>93958091
what, like Athas?

>>93958752
>buying a legendary magic item
if there is a game on the planet where this is done then all is lost

>>93958394
i personally find it wild that no matter what bones you start with, you end up with a medium skeleton with a shortbow and a shortsword.

Like, where are they coming from? Is it made of bone too? How does a halfling skeleton rearrange to become size medium?

>>93958760
if it wasn't meant to be done, then why does it have rules?

Every paladin should buy a Holy Avenger, every arcanist a Robe of the Archmagi, every fighter +3 armor or of invulnerability or a defender sword, every monk gloves of soul catching.
I know none of you have games that last longer than 3 weeks, if you've ever had a game at all, but welcome to double digit levels.

>>93958817
>if it wasn't meant to be done, then why does it have rules?
dont care
>Every paladin should buy a Holy Avenger, every arcanist a Robe of the Archmagi, every fighter +3 armor or of invulnerability or a defender sword, every monk gloves of soul catching.
not in my game

>I don't let players buy magic items
>Also btw why are casters overrunning the game all the time?
Your brain on 5e.

>>93958817
>every monk gloves of soul catching
This is why everyone hates you white roomers. You take monsters, abilities, items out of context and think they automatically apply everywhere because the book they appear in is published by wotc.
>Crafting the gloves requires silver thread, fine leather, and other material components worth a total of 5,000 gp. To imbue the gloves with magic, a ritual must be performed, and this ritual requires three sacrifices: a being of great intellect, a being of strong body, and a being of pure heart. The ritual must take place under the light of a full moon and requires 5 hours to perform. The ritual consumes and destroys the souls of those who are sacrificed, meaning they can't be brought back from the dead.

for sale at any store!

>>93958831
but magic items make casters more broken

>>93958835
If only you knew how many souls were destroyed in crafting the wbl of the average party in 3e lel

>play thief, get to level 13, never get a single magic item, never use all my attunement slots or use magic items, feels good man

>>93958835
Yes as it turns out valuable items have a way of ending up on the market at a large price. Good thing players at level 13 can instantly transport themselves across the entire world to anywhere these items might be sold.

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>5e players: Casters are too imbalanced please nerf
>Also 5e players: The players counterspelled my BBEG and Im too shitty of a GM to counterplay it please remove one of the limits on casters and nerf that spell.

5.5e looks more disastrous every day.

>>93958849
including their own, because you had to give up levels to craft certain items, which is also what like, necromancy soul drain was.

>>93958831
>>I don't let players buy magic items
>>93958852
>>play thief, get to level 13, never get a single magic item, never use all my attunement slots or use magic items, feels good man
common scrolls and healing potions are literally in the PHB under normal adventuring gear shop stuffs.

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>>93958852
This has been my experience with every fucking campaign in 5e until very recently and I'm running mine very differently as a DM because of it. Christ it's obnoxious how little DMs have tossed out gold or magic items. I'm not asking for an excess, but I've only been able to afford plate on like two of the six or seven characters I've ever been able to/aimed to use it on, and one got it special at the end of a campaign, basically.

>>93958868
Christ that's foul. Why would it be a Con save? You might as well just smack them, at that point. And not expending the spell feels like it ruins the point. I still feel like Mage Slayer should have an ability to fire off a shot/toss a ranged weapon at one in addition to the melee attack, to be like a "Martial Counterspell" and it could work like that, but that's dumb.

>Look it up
>They took that out of the feat

What the actual fuck is WotC doing

>>93958868
it's both a nerf and a buff.
it no longer cares about slot level period.

a 3rd level counterspell is equally as effective at countering a 1st level spell as it is a 9th.

>>93958933
>>They took that out of the feat

>mage slayer
>no longer about slaying mages

>>93958933
I had never even stopped to think about it but 5e just straight up doesn't have opportunity attacks for casting spells in melee, huh

>>93958944
>>93958933
mage slayer did get the auto succeed boost which is nice on failed saves (once per rest), and the disadvantage which is neato i guess.

>>93958930
true, but they also included what items / gear you start with (including magic items) if you start above lv1 in the phb

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What would be some neat abilities/attacks for a sort of Kraken Cleric?

>>93958944
Apparently the fuck not, and it was always a piss poor option in the first place with no ranged option or even being a half-feat. This his been the majority of my reaction to anything I've seen from 5.24. A whole lot of "Who even complained about that? Why would you go change that? That doesn't affect anything or makes it worse."

>>93958946
Nope. Which, for how much a nightmare of AoOs 3.5 was, I'm fine with, but there should be some recourse for specialized martials.

>>93958961
Yeah, it's a nice boost, but it lost literally the point of the feat. Skilled could give me an auto success on a skill check once a rest, but if it doesn't give additional proficiencies, what's the point? I'm just befuddled someone took the time to go to Mage Slayer and think "I'm going to make this worse" of all feats. Unless there's something in the rules I missed and now 5.24 has AoO on spells cast in melee range, but I doubt it.

>>93958946
mage slayer was the only way.
firing a bow in melee isn't an opportunity attack anymore either.
Or drinking a potion.
Or aiding or stabilizing an ally.
Or using a skill action.
Or performing combat maneuvers or unarmed strikes untrained.

Basically anything other than "leaving threatened square" and even that was nerfed to "leaving the threatened area" meaning you can dance around inside the threatened area as much as you want as long as you never leave it, meaning extended reach is actually kind of a disadvantage because it hardly ever procs.

>>93958971
you mean a Kraken Priest? that's an official mob

>>93958764
The ribs break off and append themselves to every limb bone.

>>93958997
I mean a cleric of a sort of “Kraken” domain. Like Illaoi from that game

Why did you guys tell me Nature Cleric wasn't any good?

>>93958989
>Dance around inside area
That was all fairly stupid but that's how every table I've played it did, only leaving the space. Well, shit.

>>93958989
To be fair, you needed the mage slayer feat in 3.5 too or everyone would just cast defensively
>Basically anything other than "leaving threatened square" and even that was nerfed to "leaving the threatened area" meaning you can dance around inside the threatened area as much as you want as long as you never leave it, meaning extended reach is actually kind of a disadvantage because it hardly ever procs.
Can you do the old gauntlet/lance trick where you have a reach and a nonreach weapon and trigger aoe when they leave either's area?

>>93959024
I like to misinform retards

>>93958933
Its actually mind boggling to me, Ive been very skeptical about 5.5 but this really does ruin it for me. I think one of 5es biggest boons is how good its casting is and counterspell was a huge part of that. Casters need counterplay and the way it worked in 3rd is so clunky and obtuse.

Not expending a spell slot makes it actually worthless, the con save is just extra madness to the shitpile. It just makes me ree that 5e babies who dont understand how good they have it compared to previous editions are now so coddled that they want all possible shutdowns removed, its the kind of crap that leads to concepts like, "You shouldnt be able to miss attacks because it feels bad and wastes your turn!"

>>93958939
Thats not really a buff, not being able to upcast it means there is no way to be certain your counterspell will go off.

>>93958946
Ive been playing 3.5 again and I think there are a lot of things 3.5 does better than 5e but attacks of opportunity for casting isnt one of them, it makes casters dependent on martial classes to protect them imo.

>>93959024
Who the heck told you that?
>Spike growth and dominate beast on the spell list
>Charm effect that actually works like a charm effect
>Resourceless Absorb Elements for anyone
It's good shit.

>>93958972
sounds like you should have taken the surveys.

all of the things i complained about were fixed, and several of my monk suggestions were even implemented directly. Well, except monks still using str for jumping.
And while they didn't use all of my suggestions for the whole game, for instance they didn't use my wildshape suggestions, everything I said I liked how it was and why, they kept.

It's really only the classes or features where I had no input because they're not classes I care about or am good at enough to have informed opinions that people are really up in arms.

Well, except Ranger, but I don't hear anybody complaining that Ranger is prepared spells now, I think we can all agree it was stupid they ever weren't, and or that needless concentration was removed from a lot of their spells so they don't have a spell slot clogging issue anymore, where they couldn't cast more than once a combat unless it's to heal somebody because if they popped a hail of thorns or an ensnaring strike or whatever they'd drop spike growth or their summon or the chance at a second or third surprise with PWT or whatever that's markedly more important to stay concentrating on. So it's really just even more a case of "things i talked about got fixed, only things I didn't mention went fucky."

>>93959037
>"You shouldnt be able to miss attacks because it feels bad and wastes your turn!"
i think that's literally Matt Colville's new system "Draw Steel"

>>93959037
>Not expending a spell slot makes it actually worthless

True. Hell, I just had a kneejerk reaction on it, since I was immediately put off by it, but now I've considered the mechanics further. Theoretically, this legitimately makes it a bad idea to use Counterspell, because now YOU are out a spell slot, and they just try again next turn. You could burn all your high-level slots on it and eventually, they'd still have whatever fuckoff-level spell ready to go because you just can't cast it anymore.

The only way I see this making sense is with changes to the monster blocks they were already making, which I already didn't love, but if it's:
>Monsters technically don't have slots anymore
>They just have spell abilities
>Using Counterspell stops it
>It isn't a "slot" technically so they can't use it again
>if used on a player, they don't lose their slots
>Purely one-way counterplay in terms of resource

But that's still a tad dumb and unclear. It was already dumb they're spacing out the DMG and MM like this to make confusing shit like this pop up (Yes, I'm aware 5 did it and other editions have, no reason to do it again).

>>93958939
This means that if something with a 9th level slot just bolsters it's Con., you can't counterspell it, because it's no longer a magical battle, it's a fucking Concentration save. The old system made perfect tit-for-tat sense.

>>93959061
Everyone here when I said I was thinking about playing one.

>>93959081
It's a delay tactic exclusively, yes.

>>93959081
>This means that if something with a 9th level slot just bolsters it's Con., you can't counterspell it, because it's no longer a magical battle, it's a fucking Concentration save.
Or just spend a Legendary Resistance to force the matter.

I hope they include in statblocks something that makes legres actually cost something, so it's not like attacking a second healthbar totally unrelated to the first where there's no effect until their is.

But i don't think they will.

>>93959068
I didn't even know they were doing those. Hell, the playtests were a mess to see what each one was going to be or where to find things, and sometimes swung back and forth so much it was confusing. Plus several changes from the last playtest to final version without final input, I call bullshit.

If they had put out one, full, comprehensive playtest and went "speak now or forever hold your peace" I'd believe that, but there's so many minute fuckups and confusing decisions I don't think we'd have caught it all otherwise. You are also not the main character unless you're actually an editor anonposting.

>Ranger prepared spells
Why does that make more sense? If they're getting magic, it being learned and innate makes more sense to me. That's far from the issue I have with them, but that stuck out, so I wondered your logic there. You're right on the rest there, though, though Hunter's Mark maybe could've used that treatment.

Still don't know why they didn't just keep the Tasha's version of Ranger, that was widely liked.

>>93959073
That is actually exactly what I was referencing but didnt want to name him and it specifically, and I think his concept there is beyond dumb. Your positioning matters hugely in a tactics game where your attack misses, especially one where you still have a bonus action- or prehaps multiple attacks.

>>93959081
>inb4 people say "achtually, action economy..."
I was in the same boat as you, its an elaborate way to burn your 3rd level spell slot. Egotistical streamers and youtubers are going to think they know better because their ego is inflated by their audience though, and WOTC/Hasbro will listen to them because their opinions are the ones that get heard.

And yeah monsters having spell like abilities instead of actual slots isn't something I care for at all either, almost everything Ive heard from 5.5 sounds bad. It sounds like people who never played 4e following all the lines of logic that led to the development of 4e to me sometimes.

>>93959107
Legendary Resistance, Legendary Actions, and Lair actions were never a good idea. Neither is wasting a 3rd level spell to simply delay the enemy. Elongated combats always favor the mobs and never the players- players win by defeating the enemy, players lose by getting exhausted.

>>93959108
>Why does that make more sense? If they're getting magic, it being learned and innate makes more sense to me.
And to others it doesn't. From a mechanical point, why weren't they prepared casters while paladins were? They're both the only martial half casters in the entirety of the 20124 book. Then you look at full casters like cleric, the holy caster has prepared casting, and the nature casters druid has prepared casting. And the Holy martial has prepared casting, and the nature martial...doesn't. From a lore point, why wouldn't the guy who lives in and communes with nature every day not be able to ask the wilds for the specific spells he needs that day?

>Still don't know why they didn't just keep the Tasha's version of Ranger, that was widely liked.
I agree. I think part is that they needed to dial back a bit of the power Tasha's gave to allow the rangers to have a lot of the free new things that were being added

>ritual casting
>prepared spells
>weapon masteries

and the other half was to keep the ranger more simple and uniform.

Ever consider that Counterspell is now designed mostly as a tool for the DM to use against players?

>>93959158
Yes.

>>93959108
>I didn't even know they were doing those.
Literally on you. All major discussion venues were discussing them.
>Hell, the playtests were a mess to see what each one was going to be or where to find things
On Beyond and on WotC's site, new announcement like once a month as the pdfs and surveys dropped, plus we were linking both the most recent PDF and survey in the OPs of /5eg/ every thread for the entire duration. Check the archive if you don't believe me. Heck until about a month ago we still had them, even though the playtest was over with.

>Plus several changes from the last playtest to final version without final input,
Yeah they did that with the 2014 PHB too. Actually quite a bit more so than this time, a lot of the issues people are claiming to have now were in the playtest but at least based on their videos, nobody complained at the time, 75+% satisfaction or above.

>If they had put out one, full, comprehensive playtest and went "speak now or forever hold your peace"
I agree they should have done that. Both 2014 and 2024. Breaking it up makes sense for testing individual pieces, but you always want a pass that's everything together because maybe a problem isn't in isolation.

>You are also not the main character unless you're actually an editor anonposting.
You'd be surprised how persuasive you can be to game designers when you explain your reasonings to them in game designer terms.

>Why does that make more sense? If they're getting magic, it being learned and innate makes more sense to me.
They've got a million niche utility spells that are good in specific circumstances if you know they might come up but would be horrible to pick as one of your single digit number known when more staple options exist?
They've been prepared in literally every other edition of D&D since their inception, and are literally a class about being an innawoods that's always prepared for the occasion?

Take your pick, both are equally valid.

>>93959158
Yes, because shitty GMs get buttmad when players use counterplay against them. I actually think the counterspell rewrite comes more from GMs reeing about players using it against their boss mobs than it does from players getting it used against them by mobs.

If DMs werent shitty they would know they already have unlimited ways to counterplay the players, though. Especially in 5e.

>>93959175
lol typical player brain
still thinking he's in some contest against an equal
you win because we decide it's time for you to win
we pretend to be mad because it gives you satisfaction
you only ever die when the consequences of your stupidity cannot be discreetly handwaved
you're a rat in a maze
>noooooo good dms dont do that
and the best part is we convince you this is true so well than even when we tell you the truth, you refuse to believe it

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>>93959158
>targeting enemy saves
>targeting enemy CON saves
I will simply refuse to engage with spells that target saves. It's tiresome even before we get into those "automatic save even on a failure" bullshit abilities.
>but they're designed for you to wear them down until your save or sucks work again after they run out of uses
I don't care.

>>93959207
it's not about good DMs. good DMs weren't having an issue.
it's the tumblrOC critrole theaterkid greenhorns who don't know shit from shinola.

>>93959209
target them with damage-focused save vs halfs. you get half the effectiveness guaranteed, and the remaining half isn't worth spending their legres on when there's always the possibility of a save or suck down the road.

This is why Evocation is secretly best wizard. They get to ignore legres. There's nothing that says so mechanically, but the meta demands it.

>>93959037
>there are a lot of things 3.5 does better than 5e but attacks of opportunity for casting isnt one of them, it makes casters dependent on martial classes to protect them
Yeah, that's the point.

>>93959156
Actually, in terms of parity, that makes perfect sense, anon. Great point. I'd prefer it if the half-casters both just had it innate, but in terms of not having to deal with learning/swapping spells, that is helpful.

>Dial back the power
I'm mixed on that. I actually wrote out a version of it that kept one or two of the original features (Their old camo thing was sick as fuck, shame it's in the double-digit level range), since I couldn't find one elsewhere aside from just using 5etools to compare. Personally, that made me want to play a Ranger for the first time in 5e, since it brought it up to everything else, really, and I hadn't yet because, well, look at them.

I don't think those new things have parity with what they lost at all. Especially since several other classes got those for basically free. I do guess they're better as half-casters now, but compared to Paladin (Which I don't like some of the changes to either, however minute), still don't think they're compelling.

>>93959158
The existing one did just fine, spent an enemy slot, and spent yours. If this is just a softball option for pissy players who will now lose THE most effective anti-caster tool in the game, it ain't a good trade.

>>93959229
>This is why Evocation is secretly best wizard.
Scribe is a better evoker than evoker, scribe can sidestep resistances and immunities which evoker has no means to.

>>93959229
5e desperately needs more dms, so anything that reduces the difficulty and learning curve is healthier than the alternative.
Huge issue with the game in general is that the dm resources are shit.

>>93959168
>They were in /5eg/
You know what, I do recall that and will concede that, and having ignored it because the process moved fast enough and I believed they were making such fundamental changes initially I didn't think a survey would be of use/listened to. So I guess that's on me, but you may be imagining a higher hit rate unless everyone thought that and you were the one guy who sent them in.

>based on their videos
This is the fucking problem, they listen to Youtubers and personalities more than 80% of the player base who play the game and have no need to sugarcoat to keep access and good accord with a fuckstick corp

>Maybe a problem isn't in isolation.
Very reasonable and I'm glad you see that. It's just bizarre to me they'd go to the lengths of putting that out there, then skipping the last step.

>You'd be surprised how persuasive you can be to game designers when you explain your reasonings to them in game designer terms.
Fair, I suppose, but I've never had their ear. I do have a good success rate on my personal homebrews/ruling arguments among tables similarly. I am a bit biased against WotC after the last 5+, especially last year of bullshit, but an audience with them isn't a frequent boon.

>Prepared spells
100% correct on this and between you and the other guy I buy it, that is an improvement and I was just use to the "old" 5e way and other classes I like working that way, I suppose, and them being up shit creek enough I never really caught that specifically. And forgot about previous editions working that way, since I didn't toy with them back in the 3.5 days either. Good to learn.

>>93959207
Ive been GMing since I was 14 and you sound like the most awful GM Ive ever heard of

>>93959263
>The existing one did just fine, spent an enemy slot, and spent yours. If this is just a softball option for pissy players who will now lose THE most effective anti-caster tool in the game, it ain't a good trade.
I could not agree more anon.

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>>93959229
>target them with damage-focused save vs halfs. you get half the effectiveness guaranteed, and the remaining half isn't worth spending their legres on when there's always the possibility of a save or suck down the road.
>This is why Evocation is secretly best wizard. They get to ignore legres. There's nothing that says so mechanically, but the meta demands it.
Based. I think so too. I'm not the best at optimizing or anything but I emphasize my own sense of fun over anything and anyone else. On that note, blasting releases my endorphins so I'm going to blast. It's not about what's smart or effective. It's about what personally amuses me.

>>93959240
I think having to make concentration saves to cast in melee was already more than enough and I don't think making casters dependent on martials is a good thing.

>>93959289
The reason 5e has a DM shortage is because 5e players are extremely entitled to the point that its become a joke.

>>93959307
That's part of it yes. You also have terrible tools. Opening the dmg and the first thing you read being establishing a cosmology is like opening a cookbook and the first thing it discusses is buying your first oven.
I could write a 1k word post on this but it'd just be pointless crying.

>>93959289
>vtt with AI DM incoming

>>93959457
The tech for it isn't mature and you're going to be able to just bruteforce it with gaslighting.
>I think you're mistaken, the shield spell adds 10 to AC.
>That's not correct, when I attack with a greataxe I roll 3d12 slashing damage.
>When we rescued the commoner last week we received 20000gp as a reward.

It would be nice if it worked because then Wizards could continue their current business model and no one would be unhappy. But I'm not hopeful.

>>93959483
As you say. However it's not technically difficult. Don't think chatgpt tier AI. Just one that will know the rules and what actions are not allowed. It's not going to rival a real DM but many normies or newbies will definitelly try it.

>>93959304
>I don't think making casters dependent on martials is a good thing.
it is literally the point of martial classes.
it is the main thing they're supposed to supply.

the more you make it irrelevant, the more you make martials irrelevant and the game just becomes Ars Magicka.

>>93959495
You can absolutely gaslight AI to even disregard previous instructions because so much work has to go into just making it reliably produce coherent sentences you can't really have that while also telling it that it can never, ever violate specific instructions (especially when they're as vague and nebulous as the ones for DnD). You can still get ChatGPT to tell you how to make a bomb and only after it's done does the second automated filter catch it. WotC is a company that can't even afford to print Magic cards on decent stock there's zero chance they make an AI that always abides by game rules and doesn't turn public games into a crapshoot of who can fuck up the AI the hardest.

>>93959457
you can't train an AI without mounds upon mounds of data.
you can't have mound of data of DMs DMing to train on if there's a DM crisis.

whatever silicon valley bigwig thought up this scheme did so literally because of buzzwords, without any knowledge of how D&D or AI actually work.

>>93959495
it's going to basically be Venus model off Chub.ai, i guarantee you.

>>93959368
Your analogy doesn't work because buying your first oven would actually be potentially useful for a lot of people. That's more akin to what older editions opened with, with basic "how to manage the table" shit, where yes, it's technically necessary, but it's not what most people will need. However it's a good starting point for novices.
The 5e DMG is comically bad where it would be more akin to a cookbook opening with telling you how to selectively breed crops for better ingredients because that's the same level of "useful" building a multiverse has for DnD.

>>93959513
>>93959515
Too true. A deterministic open ended mmo with dnd rules would be better. Wait until 6e when the rules will be custom made to be used in a computer game unanbiguously.

>>93959532
That was 4e and it was such a disaster WotC refuses to touch anything from it now even though a lot of the ideas introduced in it were legitimate improvements over 3.5e and are still done better than 5e.

>>93959539
If 4e had computer enforcable rules, wewould have at least one dnd 4e rpg. Currently the rules are taylor made to be used by humans with a wide latitude of options. Of course i was joking about 6e. I don't know if dnd can be turned into a deterministic action-result rpg without losing whatever charm it has left.

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>>93959368
>>93959529

Since it was mentioned in another thread can you use 5e's version of Alter Self to become a girl?

>>93959570
The only reason 4e's RPG imploded was because the only guy WotC was paying to develop it went postal after it was 80% through development.

>>93959570
In addition to the above, to accurately translate dnd in a rpg, it would have to be turn based, but most video game nerds like the real time approach best.

What's the best way to make a maximum cleaver character?
We want:
GreatAxe or Halberd for Cleave
Green-flame blade
Great weapon master (dmg is also added to cleave)
Sword bard's Slashing flourish
Battle master's Sweeping Attack (probably by getting martial adept feat) [Optional]

Basically a Sword bard with a single level dip in fighter or paladin for masteries and martial adept wiz for green-flame blade, the martial adept feat actually sucks, one use per short rest is not worth a feat imo. you also want a warhammer or a pike for pushing enemies so you can setup GFB, any ideas?

>>93959629
I have never understood why cRPGs are predominantly RTWP, and I feel very vindicated now that BG3 has proven that TB works just fine for the genre.

Good god, that was a lot of acronyms.

>>93959539
>Wotc refuses to touch anything good from 4e!
>Except for the stuff that they kept from it in 5e!
You're retarded, get out of here. 4e was trash.

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>>93959720
4e was trash, but that doesn't mean 5e didn't get worse in some specific cases.

>>93959720
Yes because last I checked point buy, stat bonuses, action economy, etc. all existed in 3.5e, 4e, and 5e, yet they all did it differently.

>>93959738
I always wondered why they arbitrarily fucked the short rest economy in 5e when the 4e one worked perfectly for what it was meant to be. I feel like short rests getting changed to an hour must have come later on in development, although I'm pretty sure it was there even in the first play test packet...

>>93956230
>>I conjure eight pixies
You don't get to choose this

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>>93959084
The cynicism the Nature Domain gets is deserved. It's a niche subclass that doesn't have anything outstanding. It doesn't hold a candle to Twilight and Mercy, or even Light, Death, or Tempest, etc. If you want nature themed powers, you're better off going druid. That doesn't mean you can't get it to work. Rather, you are missing out on far, far better options.

>>93960143
I agree with the rest but come on, Light is ass.

>>93960179
>Light is ass.
It gives you Radiance of Dawn and Fireball. Can't really go wrong, but yeah, it has aged poorly.

What is your favorite 3rd party book? I personally like Flee Mortals for the minion rules and monster roles but Grim Hollows has the most setting rules I enjoy as a low fantasy fan.

>>93959591
>You transform your appearance. You decide what you look like, including your height, weight, facial features, sound of your voice, hair length, coloration, and distinguishing characteristics, if any.
I'd say so.

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Any good campaign where the players become the villains?

>>93959570
>taylor made
Who's Taylor?

>>93960000
I'm not sure, some sort of misguided attempt to ensure short rest-based classes would have to run out of gas eventually?

>>93960375
What sort of setting rules does Grim Hollow use that you like?

>>93960638
The new Disease options, the slower pace for resting and the new permanent/grevious wounds. I did do some homebrewing to fit my table but it adds a bit of tension to combat when normal DnD combat is usually just the players steamrolling or instantly healing through things encounters.

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>>93955925
See I think that's dumb because it could have been done at a high level and it would most likely be fine. Like at level 13, I don't think it's crazy for Rangers to get concentration-less Hunter's Mark even knowing they could cast a spell like Hex via a feat.
Paladins at level 11 got Radiant Strikes and that deals more damage than Hunter's Mark, without concentration, and without action economy cost, plus they can stack that with Divine Favor and equal out in terms of overall damage or they could also do the Hex thing, and out damage the hypothetical Ranger with Hunter's Mark + Hex.
The only thing I could MAYBE see as a problem for the 13th-level concentration-less hunter's mark is at Ranger level 17, where they just get a perma advantage on anyone under its effect. But even then... it's level 17 I think that's pretty fair not to mention technically you could be playing a Vengeance Paladin who's been doing that since level 3 via Vow of Enmity (with no action cost by the way).

The Rogue thing is only a risk because it's really easy to build (It's one cantrip or Dual Wielder), it's doable earlier than the Ranger example, and you'd be out-pacing Fighters and Barbarians in terms of damage.

>>93960677
I think the designers place a weird premium on ranged fighting

>>93959304
>having to make concentration saves to cast in melee was already more than enough
Those concentration checks were to cast defensively and avoid provoking AoOs, you moron. If casting in melee didn't otherwise provoke AoOs, you wouldn't need to make concentration checks to cast defensively.

>>93950772
I flipped through my friends early copy a couple weeks ago and I noticed people are smiling in every picture, it was weird.

>>93960404
Evil campaigns aren't good, anon.

Been out of the d&d loop.
My group is going to us dnd beyond for a game i'm running in January.

So the 2024 phb replaces the 2013 one.
1: Can the classes still take the sub classes from the other books or is just 2024 options?
2: races in the phb24 replace those before it, but if the race wasn't included such as half elf will they still work?
3: any major changes introduced? Seems like a bunch of minor ones and clarifications.
Thanks

>>93961289
Yeah, nothing stopping you from using older stuff. The system is supposedly backwards compatible, and there shouldn't be much issue with using dropped races despite the devs complaining about racism.

>>93959584
10/10, good job anon.

>>93959591
You always could.
But more specifically to address your point
>and other distinguishing characteristics

What I'm sad about is it specifies which natural weapons you can grow now. No more slam or wing buffet or tentacle or tail slap or sting or bludgeoning crush crab claw.

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>>93961211
>Evil campaigns aren't good, anon.
Ha...ha... very funny.

>>93961289
>any major changes introduced?
A lot of minor changes that add up. Origin feats, class revisions, the magic action, changes to status conditions (especially surprise), and so on. In essence it shakes up the meta. It leads to idiosyncrasies like finding ways to cast spells that don't consume spell slots.

The book isn't out yet. I have a pdf, but not running it for my group without online resources. Also want to monster manual. DMG is whatever.

>>93960788
>a weird premium on [the only type of fighting]
I wonder why

>>93959570
>If 4e had computer enforcable rules, we would have at least one dnd 4e rpg.
Buddy they tried. They tried so fucking hard it's downright funny, it was like watching a kitten wear itself out then scream in exasperation trying to sprint up a playground slide.

That said, apparently Matt Colville coded 4e in its totality in Fantasy Grounds, he just refuses to share it because of copyright.
Why the fucker didn't just dump it for free anonymously instead of going "I made this thing that makes the game function as intended but since I just announced I'm the maker and it's not technically legal to distribute it will forever rot on my hard drive" I'll never know.

>>93959591
You could use it to become a 3 dicked futa. Literally anything you can imagine as long as it's the same size category and has the same number and arrangement of limbs.

Which is kind of an issue for tailed or winged or 4 armed races I suppose. And I have no idea how to rule it for plasmoid.

>>93961299
Half elves are racists?
Do i even want to know?

>>93961289
For subclasses 5.5 moves all classes to get them at level 3 rather than some at 1, some at 2, and some at 3 in 5e. Each class's Subclass feature casually mentions how to handle that, "For the rest of your career, you get any features your subclass gives that are of your $class level or lower", not that exact wording but functionally that, so you gain the feature at 3 and then it checks against your level and gives any level 1 or 2 feature. Most subclasses work fine, maybe with some minor tweaking (some Monk subclasses for instance give you a use for Ki which 5.5 Monks technically don't have, but swap the word out for Focus and it works). Order Clerics have the same problem they had in Tasha's where their capstone technically requires a feature you might not have since the choice between Potent Cantrip and Divine Strike is a core option. Shepherd Druids break pretty hard since a lot of their features interact with Summon and Conjure spells in ways that just straight up do nothing with the 5.5 rewrites of those spells, so probably avoid them.

>>93961561
Supposedly, the concept of "half-races" is racist in of itself, so any crossbreed children between men and elves (or orcs) must choose between one of the two feature lists and use that.

>>93961561
>Wotc doesn't condone race mixing.
Horseshoe theory.

>>93955616
Ah, I forgot Brutal Strike on Barbarian for Forceful Blow for another 15 feet. Minimum character level of 11 if you pick up the Battle Master bit through a Feat (Barb 9 for Brutal Strike/Warlock 2 for Agonizing Blast), definitely not optimized, but being able to send someone just straight up flying up to 55 feet once per Short Rest sounds hilarious.

>>93960000
>I always wondered why they arbitrarily fucked the short rest economy in 5e
Warlock.
Literally, only warlock. Mercy Monk also applies, but that came years later. There's a case for 4elem monk, but shape the river isn't worth rebalancing the entire game around.
And based on the wording of certain class features I wouldn't even be surprised if the change was basically last minute though I'd have to go reread the NEXT playtest to be sure. Because "Regain 4 SP every 5 minutes" is a reasonable capstone.

But every other class in 2014 besides warlock either had their short rest resource regain capped, or else could only spend it on transient things like adding bonuses to attack rolls or dash more for a round. Closest thing to an unlimited regain permanent effect is wildshape and like... Woo, you get to stay as an animal that's weaker than a PC of your level the whole day if you want. So amaziiiiing.

But warlock, warlock gets back spell slots. And while they did a very good job making sure it's own spell list never contained anything that lasts more than like 10 minutes, and moved anything they should get that does to invocations like armor of shadows so they could specify Self Only, THE MULTICLASSING RULES make it a serious problem, since any spell prepared can be cast with any slot regardless of source.

Because a warlock that gets even one spell slot back every 5 minutes of non-combat, even accounting for taking an 8 hour longrest once a day, is getting ~192 spell slots. If they have two slots, double it. 3 slots triple. X4 once you're at late game.
Even ignoring the obvious things like Animate Dead, and Cure Wounds replicates the Mercy Monk case almost identically, even something as simple as Create/Destroy Water becomes a capital P problem on that scale.

>last session ended with party fleeing from a superior foe in all directions.
How should I run this? Take turns of each player doing stuff? Or just let them regroup "off-screen." Leaning towards the latter.

>>93962007
Separate the party for two years and give them all solo sessions covering the big events therein before they reconvene.

>>93962007
Is the foe still pursuing any one of them? Are they too far away from each other? Could something happen to them? If the answer to all of the questions is no, then just pass some ingame time and let them meet up again. Otherwise you could either have little events happen to all of them or a bigger one to a single player, where the rest join up during it.

>>93962007
I would fuck up one of them arbitrarily. The foe can only pursue one of them and the foe does.
But I'm a dipshit who runs bad games.

>>93962028
>>93962037
Thanks. The gang stole something from a vampire who was unadamaged, so I was thinking he would pursue someone using his bat form.

>>93962058
oh boy, if the vampire pursues, he could easily fuck up a player, unless the player is high level and throwing radiant damage around like candy.