"Beetlejuice is getting Standard banned in December" Edition▶Bans (NOW)https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/august-26-2024-banned-and-restricted-announcementThe Week That Was: Where Dreams Become Realityhttps://magic.gg/news/the-week-that-was-where-dreams-become-realityMetagame Mentor: Discussing Pioneer with Bloomburrowhttps://magic.gg/news/metagame-mentor-discussing-pioneer-with-bloomburrow▶Spoilershttp://www.magicspoiler.com/https://mythicspoiler.com/CONSTRUCTED RESOURCES▶Current meta, complete with deck listshttps://www.mtgtop8.com/https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/▶Build and share casual deckshttps://deckstats.net/https://tappedout.net/CUBE RESOURCES▶Build and share Cubeshttps://cubecobra.com/landingCARD RESOURCES▶Search engineshttps://scryfall.com/https://mtg.wtf/▶Proxy a deck or a cube for cheaphttps://www.makeplayingcards.com/https://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM▶Play online for freehttps://untap.in/https://dr4ft.info/▶What is EDH?https://vocaroo.com/1ihc21gJLBh1▶Previously:>>93924228 >TQWhat exactly was WotC thinking in printing instant speed turn 2 ramp that's also a 9/9 trample creature with pseudoward?
damn, good OPglad nobody cares to keep it updated anymore, really reflects on the quality of the game at large
>>93953447next time just wait for somebody else to make the new thread
>>93953447Who is the artist of this art?
>>93953666Adriano Kitani
>>93953666Adriano Kitani. They do the thumbnails on mtggoldfish.
can wotc employees stop promoting this cring card game here?what kind of game has players sniffing around graveyards constantly as a theme and every creatura also sniffing around graveyards?
>>93953762>sniffingESL?
>>93953757>>93953758Thanks!
>>93953447>draws a card when targeted>pseudowardIs this a new meme? There's a world of difference between "get something when your opponent targets this" and "counter spells and abilities that target this unless your opponent pays this additional cost."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVjk5nrb_lII am happy to report that Golgari Skeletons is exceeding all expectations. It's actually very good. The recent tuneups plugged several holes, and even more testing of even more options has yielded respectable results.A big upgrade is crashing in, in the form of Driven / / Despair. It delivers two thick bursts of brute force to crash through defenders, while also providing card advantage and stripping hands on key turns. The Menace anthem is often enough to just end a game, and when it's not, cleaving one or two cards out of their hand seriously limits their options to stabilize.I've tested many, many options in the "They have blockers? Well just murder them anyway" category and this is by far performing the best. Though, the Huntsman's Redemption is fairly solid too, but having to wait for the pumps/trample is no bueno in many match-ups.For real though, tests are good. It feels legit competitive. Like, competitive enough to warrant actually playing it, instead of just being a meme. It's just extremely fast and ruthless, lots of decks just can't deal with it, and I'm slowly settling into ways to punch past the ones that can.
>>93953926Based skeletonanon.
Just going to talk about this motherfucker for a second.In many games, it has been a +5 or +6 card advantage nuke. >Oh damn, you kept a slow hand? Thanks, I'm just going to draw three cards now. Hope you don't mind losing half your hand next turn, too. With such a fast curve alongside Mutavaults, we usually have several swinging bodies.Turns like>Activate mutavault, Despair, swing. you discard 3 cards.Really feel unfair. And Heaven forbid the midgame when you can get full value from both halves in the same turn. When this card is good, it feels like you're just cheating. Its worst case scenario is usually !G: Draw a card and leave a Despair in the 'yard for later. It's hard to find a situation where we can't connect with at least one thing.Very happy I found this fucker. It turns the deck into a real nightmare sometimes. So good I'm even considering it as a 4-of, though it is competing with many other slots. The name is even perfect. Drive 'em to despair. 'tis what skeletons do.
MTG JP made their own Duskmourn trailer with a Valgavoth puppet. It's cute.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFjl4pIf9oQ
>>93954203The jigsaw reference is funny.
>>93954203>Jace is behind the verythingSasuga.
Always fun when a brew works out. With Skeletons being a proper threat, that means I'm 2 for 74 with brews I'd actually consider decent, to ones that are trash.I noticed the when I was going through some of my brews that I had an Angels brew from 6 months ago, cool to see that poking into the meta even though I never published mine. Maybe we'll call it 3 for 74.One more brew for today. This is one of my longest running ones that I constantly tinker with because I desperately want it to work. "Baby Got Back" it is tentatively named. If you have any ideas for how to pump its consistency up, that would be much appreciated.
>>93954309I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if the next time we see Jace he's actually just puppetting Valgavoth.
>>93954393I wouldn't be surprised if we literally never saw Valgavoth again
>>93954425He's definitely been tossed into the pile of "villains who're probably gonna all get unleashed at once in the big finale set", to be honest. Alongside Aclazotz, the Mycotyrant, Oko and his gang, I wouldn't be surprised if "somehow Akul survived", Glarb and Cruelclaw made it out fine, etc.
>Order a card for $40>Find out I actually already owned that card>Decide to catalogue and organize my entire collection of 17 years>Spend 7 hours on just Green >mfw
>>93954803Find anything good?
>>93954314>I noticed the when I was going through some of my brews that I had an Angels brew from 6 months ago, cool to see that poking into the meta even though I never published mine. Maybe we'll call it 3 for 74.I don't mean to be rude but what does your list look like? because coco angels has been a pioneer archtype since kaldheim came out back in 2021https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=31623&d=444788&f=PIthe thing about the deck is that it goes in and out of competitive status very often, sometimes it's a perfect fit for the meta, other times it's completely unplayable, so it can feel like it popped out of nowhere when it starts showing up again
>>93954861Actually, yeah. I found a few "Copy Artifacts", a Vorcinclex Monstrous Raider, and three Parallel Lives.
>>93952574Anon, this guy looks half asleep
>>93954870>the thing about the deck is that it goes in and out of competitive status very often, sometimes it's a perfect fit for the meta, other times it's completely unplayable, so it can feel like it popped out of nowhere when it starts showing up againIt was Abzan but very similar to the usual Giada affair. I was only partly implying I preempted the meta. The real implication was that at least a non-zero amount of the random garbage I cobble together is worthy of consideration.
>>93954877Three parallel lives are awesome. Nice trade-in credit if you don't play EDH.
>>93954803I catalogued everything and now I almost automatically update the database when I get new cards.
>>93954471Don't forget Arzakon from shandalar, the demon planeswalker whose been in slumber for at least 100+ years.
>>93954919That's the goal, but god damn it's gonna take a while. Not even including commons and uncommons
So, how are your custom sets going anons?I've made a ton of progress on my second set lately.>Hoses aggressive stat lines>Nukes tokens>Turns off buffs>Enables a slew of jankI'm honestly blown away at just how much work this effect puts in. Very fun card, simple but definitely one of my favorites from this set so far.
A new LGS just opened near my house and they have Modern twice a week. I haven't played in a few years but the last deck I made was Domain Zoo, so I'm thinking of just updating that with the new leyline cards. Any other deck suggestions? I used to like playing UWx control but I'm not throwing down $400 for a playset of the One Ring.
>>93955111>A new LGS just opened near my house and they have Modern twice a week. I haven't played in a few years but the last deck I made was Domain Zoo, so I'm thinking of just updating that with the new leyline cards.>Any other deck suggestions?Do not play Modern, it is a flaming pile of fucking shit with no redeeming qualities.
>>93955111>Any other deck suggestions?I think upgrading your domain zoo list is going to be your best bet short term, if you were to build another deck from scratch, I'd recommend either ruby storm or living end but both should cost you at least $500there's also dredge, if you have fetches and shocks the rest of the deck is dirty cheap
>>93955111Just get a cheap proxy of the ring why are MTG players like this?
>>93955097nah, I think I'm good
>>93955311I disregard supplimental product cards when considering balance.
>>93955319fpbp
Why does 2 mana conditional ramp trigger that one fag so much? 2 mana ramp is common, most sets have it.
>>93955319based wotc designer
>>93953447you forgot to change edition name and set previous thread to >>93943082
>>93955391>"We did not playtest the final version of Magic: The Gathering."
>>93954203JP adverts branch is going all out on, they should take over on the card making department tooit'll be better than what MTG currently is anyway
>>93955441Facts. As time and time again, their stuff is usually more kino.
Why is wizards continuing to push mono red on us? Now “Rakdos” aggro has a turn two win in standard? When is enough enough? Every set they add more weapons for mono red. Let’s look at the last several sets: Monastery Swiftspear; Cacophoby Scamp; Monstrous Rage; Slickshot Showoff; Callous Sellsword; Felonious Rage; Heartflame Hero; and now this new Leyline. This is getting fucking ridiculous.
>>93955690>has a turn two win in standard>when is enough?Meanwhile at wizards headquarters>"Its performing great, but its not at our expectations of a tier 0 deck that wins on turn 1."
You already know what's gonna be in it. LGBT, millenial writing, and dogshit art style.
>>93955752I refuse to watch anything that doesn’t cover the brothers war through the Phyrexian Invasion. Of course knowing modern Netflix they would make Urza Black, Gerrard gay, and Sisay trans. So I hope this show doesn’t get made and the japs make a based MtG anime instead
Am I tripping or is Prize support kinda dogshit at most prereleases now? Everywhere around me is charging 35$ and had 1 pack per win payout for 3/4 rounds? There’s two stores that do 2 packs per win but they sell out fast and I basically refuse to go anywhere else Picrel had fucking 2 packs per entrant? Total? Like that’s so terrible what the hell
>>93955752Trailer or fuck off wotc. I am not investing energy until you actually show your work.
>>93955804It’s gonna be modern fagwalkers. Why would you want to see this abomination? They have so much rich lore to work with and they are going with the lame ass shit they have been shoveling out the last few years. Any show without Urza and the real Phyrexians is not worth watching.
>>93955827Because then we can properly mock it beyond just a nothingburger jpeg. I am bitter that all they had to show was some black and white tweaked image of Exquisite Firecraft as a placeholder image for years.
>>93955846I’ve had my fill of laughing at this kind of thing. I laughed at what they did to Wheel of Time on Amazon, but inside I felt like shit. I laughed at how bad the LOTR show was, but inside I felt like shit. But the Lore from the old MTG booms meant a lot to my childhood. I won’t be laughing if they ruin that too.
>>93955895At this point the only way they are even remotely going to save face is with an anime art style. I am not shitposting, its just the trend where if you want a nice looking animated series or film, you go with what is popular.If they cover the Urza stuff it will likely be mixed in with the Brother's War set unironically.
>>93955958If they cover Urza (and based on the art they released I doubt it) they absolutely could make a kino anime with Brothers War (the book, not the set though I guess they could throw in Teferi meeting him in the time bubble if they really feel like they have to). I think they need to be smart and go back to basics. Cover the books. Start with Brothers War, move through to Invasion. Maybe just show how bad the Sylex blast fucked up dominaria without covering the Jodah novels. Then continue through Urzas saga, the weather light saga, and the invasion bloc. It would be awesome
UW is busted in duskmourn limiteddon't underestimate rooms
>>93956099Anything that lets you spend Mana on your downtime tends to be strong in Limited and make for a more fun format I wonder if Rooms are gonna turn out better or worse than Craft
>>93956151Feels like Rooms have a lot more potential for Standard at least. Mirror Room with Ghostly Dancers in play is genuinely a very strong play.
>>93956019Based on that official image, I have my doubts they are going to start from the beginning. As they are using Chandra and Ajani. And If that artwork is to be actually representative of the work and not another mockup, the silhouette for Chandra is her kid self.
>>93956198It doesn't look PARTICULARLY like a kid Chandra. It could be, and it's just indicative of the story being anthology-style, covering various things. Chandra's origin, Ajani's post-sparking wandering, etc.
>>93956205Which might work, although depending on the series budget and the number of episodes that might be a bit constrained. As shows can have anywhere from 8 to 24 episodes nowadays.
>>93956198Yeah which is the recipe for a shit, boring show
>>93956251It could also mean nothing and the show isn't going to exist anyway, so.
>>93956287It wouldn't be the first or even the fourth time a MTG film/show got canned.
>>93955781i mean even 5+ years ago the prizes at my store were just a pack per win. isn't that basically all wotc gives to stores for prizing?
Remember that time a bunch of people called out WotC for fucking over gamestores by competing with them directly through Amazon and Secret Lairs and WotC responded by printing a bunch of shitty promos and holding a halfassed "love your LGS" event? lol
>>93955781I go to two stores, one does 3 packs for playing plus 1 per win and the other does 3 packs per win. Maybe your stores are just run by jews
>>93956193I cant play ghostly dancers because of the bmwf couple on it. Thinking about the art direction specifying that makes me want to commit crime
>>93953447all this art is so fucking ugly man
>>93956470I play cards cause I like them and think they work good in my deck :)
>>93956470Color: Black spellLocation: A gas station convenience store in MordorAction: Closeup on Black Aragorn, who is now an African American (that is, a Negro), trying to buy Newports with a counterfeit $20. His transaction declined, this lunchtime rowdy is about to cast a new spell -- interracial sex. He gropes a nearby Elf female, who screams for the guards to rescue her from this future rocket scientist's sexual emergency Focus: Miscegenation Mood: You're racist
>>93956654He melds with Sauron, who is designed to look like a kneeling police officer with a minneapolis badge. They meld into an elemental incarnation called Chimpout, which destroys target land each time it attacks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjoVxnzWknwKMC 176 final - Nadu vs UB FroginatorI love how Legacy is now just Horizons sets backed by reserve list cards and a handful of old cards like Animate Dead
>>93954203wtf this makes me actually interested in playing the game
>>93955752It's not happening anymore.
>>93956726Yes, it is. https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/magic-the-gathering-animated-series-news-release-date-photo>2 days ago
The set has been out for awhile, but I'm just going to say, grist's second card was a major let down
>>93956726>>93956737The funny thing, btw, is that these fags who are in charge of creative these days are so arrogant, they believe their subpar stories provide more entertainment than the clearly superior lore that everyone prefers. >Urza? Nobody cares about the cracka!>we gonna make a telbision show about dat ginger dyke and her furry friend
>>93953447>blue/red creature with vigilance>this is not a color pie break because it’s justified by wotc giving blue vigilance>blue having vigilance now mitigates its own weakness>this exact thing has been considered a color pie break in the pastSomeone explain what I’m missing here
>>93956760>Urza? Nobody cares about the cracka!Objectively true. If you polled the entire MTG audience, how many people do you think actually know who Urza is? 50%? 30%? I would be genuinely surprised if it was even 20%.
>>93955119I know it's a flaming pile of shit, but I'm bored of edh and I have a shitload of modern staples already, so I figure I'll give it a shot>>93955169Thanks for the tips, I was also looking at Ruby Storm. I have most of the rituals and lands already, would just need to buy Ral and Wish and the Rubies. Seems like it would be a good companion deck to Zoo's grugg aggro>>93955217I'm not so desperate to play it that I'll bring chinaman proxies to a sanctioned event
>Fridge From BelowWhat's it's effect, /mtg/?
>>93956791>whenever a creature you control becomes tapped, if FFB is in your gy, put a stun counter on target creature>when a creature an opponent controls untaps, if FFB is in your gy, exile FFB
>wotc actually has to try to compete in japan because mtg isn't nearly as popular there as it is outside>wotc treats the rest of the regions like shitWhy do players keep buying from Wizards? Even if they don't play another TCG, simply not buying product from Wizards would encourage them to do better to earn their keep as one of the top TCGs in the US.Card quality is fucking abysmal. There is no governing body for sanctioned MTG. WotC just prints shit set after shit set. It's all so fucking tiring.
>>93956737>news-release-date-photo>no release date mentioned in the article>it's literally two and a half paragraphs longwhy is modern jornolism so fucked? i refuse to call this mess "journalism"at least back in the day newspapers had an excuse of too much stories not enough paper, so they had to squeeze some bits into the corner. But here you have all the space, and still half of the page is random links to other unrelated garbage.
>>93956774WotC staff changes and the new interns are retards
>>93956774>>blue having vigilance now mitigates its own weaknessWhat weakness is that, exactly? Creatures? Every colour has good creatures.
>>93956692Magic just as richard garfield intended
>>93956885Because we are addicts. Expecting us to change is like expecting an alcoholic to not guzzle down a six pack by themselves in one day.
>>93956919In this instance a weakness of blue is not being able to attack efficiently. Vigilance lets you attack without worrying about the downside of not being able to block. Therefore, vigilance allows blue to bypass one of its weakness >every color has good creaturesI’m not going to but somebody could argue that blue having good creatures is in and of itself a color pie break
>>93957021They've leaned more into Blue's major weakness nowadays being unable to handle permanents after they've resolved in any efficient way.
>>93957021And yet blue's main identity in modern and legacy for over a decade was a 3/2 flying creature for 1 mana
>>93957084Funnily enough, Blue's actually secondary in big creatures alongside Black (Green is primary obviously), so it shouldn't actually have too many small efficient things. Wonder if Delver's technically a break or at least a bend nowadays, but I guess the hoop you go through for it is enough.
>>93957092>primary>secondary>tertiaryThe color pie matters less now to design than it ever has, I’m fucking tired of wotc and their bootlickers acting as though the color pie is this sophisticated, sacred thing to be pretentious about
>>93957092every color has big creatures though, red has dragons and white has angelsdelver wasn't considered a pie break because it requires instants and sorceries to transform which means it's much stronger in a tempo deck than a true aggro deckunlike goblin guide or champion of the parish or whatever
>>93957155Sure, but sort of the proportions of what gets bigger creatures is meant to be Green gets the most, then Black and Blue get some. And even with Angels, White's big creatures aren't THAT big for the most part.
>>93953447You stupid mongrel you copypasted the last thread only with a new image.Why is it the posters that post recent cards the only ones that know how to create a proper post?>>93943082>>93943082Previous thread
>>93956774Blue had pseudovigilance by untapping but it was used to enable combos. By raising the cost it wasn't used for combat so the just gave vigilance. Blue also need a evergreen combat keyword since it was always given flying in 5color cycles and skulk and prowess failed.
>>93957371Blue also had straight vigilance.
>>93957377Fuck off, blue doesn't get vigilance.>>93957371"Pseudo" anything is not identical to that thing and should be parsed from that thing.
If you think blue is bad, wait until they start adding outright removal counterspells to red ;-)Red is apparently the new favorite for Wizards
>>93957403>Red is apparently the new favorite for WizardsPOWERFULREDCARDS
>>93957155At common the colors that always get creatures with a MV of 6 or higher is green and blue.Green needs them as it is the ramp color and blue needs them as a finisher for its stall plan.White and red's mv 6 cards usually have abilities so actually casting them is a backup plan or has an ability to cast it for less.
>want to get back into legacy>my old beans list got rotated out>I need to buy some frogs to update it>but the frogs are most definitely not surviving the next B&R>desire to play legacy disappears thank you WoTC, very cool
>>93957377I think nothing that got printed before M10 should be considered precedent for anything in this game. Cherry picking shit from before that moment you can dig up any stupid bullshit excuse to support anything.
>legacy list>rotatedThis is why Standard and Pioneer is the only real MtG left.
magic keeps getting worse over time
desu arena apes mtg just enough that it scratches that itch without you having to put any money into it.
>>93957476Knuckles
>>93957467thats what you get for building a deck around>4x force of will>4x brainstorm>4x ponder
>>93957497soft arena queues are a lot closer to magic: the gathering as mark rosewater hates than anything that has existed since 1994 playground magic
when are they going to announce what sets come after foundations?
>>93957509what are the alternatives? All I can think of is knight of the reliquary decks, D&T, red prison variants (PBUH) and storm/necrodominance (imagine playing storm in paper)
The pre-release at my local got cancelled bros...I don't get to play limited anymore.
>>93957509nta but yeah i've realized that the threats for blue midrange/tempo decks are a pain in the ass to maintainat this poitn i only play sneak and show and d&t
>>93957470I think it largely depends on the frequency with which something showed up. Black doesn't get many rituals any more but I think it's stupid to say "Well Dark Ritual was from before M10 so it shouldn't be considered part of black's color pie".
>>93957586death race?
>>93957586next month
>>93957596that's insane. is your lgs dying? prerelease is the single biggest event in my area
>>93957655>No One Escapes The GatheringWhat about normal people with hobbies that don't suck?
>>93957664The opposite, they're only newly set up and barely starting to get mtg product in. I figured this was going to be their push to start setting up a local scene for it so it's a bummer that it ended up dropped.
>>93957615>"Well Dark Ritual was from before M10 so it shouldn't be considered part of black's color pie"It's not stupid to say when the whole point of drawing the line at M10 or whatever point you want to mark is to demonstrate facts about the state of modern Magic that includes the fact that Black does not get Rituals anymore.Let's be totally real about this. Wizards gives zero fucks about Dark Ritual. Anybody operating off a baseline of Dark Ritual being a normal effect is operating off a 25 year old mindset. There's a ton of stupid shit Wizards does today to fuck the colour pie but Dark Ritual was a pre-colour pie thing that basically has no design relevance today.
Top 8 at both prereleases so far bros........
>>93953447
>>93953447This makes me wanna draw a self portrait and make it into a magic card.
>>93957615Actually Dark Ritual is just not really a Black thing any more. That's more solidly Red nowadays. Black can get temp mana from sacrificing a creature, sometimes, but not just out of nothing.
>>93958077Treasures are in all colors.
>>93958109Blue doesn't get access to them (or shouldn't at least), White can only really get them as payoff for 'rule-setting' effects. Black can only get them via sacrifice. Red and Green get them extremely regularly as the temp mana and ramping colours, respectively.
>>93955097Now make an aura that sets the enchanted creature's mana value to some big number.
>>93958116???those are things you might wish for, but they don't describe current reality
>>93958116This all said, they do often use Treasure as a sort of 'refund mechanic' for some spells (mostly in Blue for Pirate-related things, and just weirdly intermittently in Black) but that's apparently just... Not something that should be done.
>>93958134>Via sacrificeMinimal sacrifice is still sacrifice.
>>93958134Well, you're like, sacrificing 1 like to create the treasure, so there
>>93958146Is graveyard hate sacrifice now too?
>>93955771>japs>based
>>93958154Also paying 1 mana upfront. It's a poor rate and you're losing life, so Black can do it, I guess is the idea. Regardless, Red is the absolute king of Treasure-making anyway. Temporary bursts of mana, as in generated by Treasure or via just a spell effect itself, is Red. Black doesn't get rituals or mass Treasure production.
>>93957470That is a bullshit statement as any discussion about the color pie has always been bullshit. It was a marketing tool that the R&D people at wizards created and didn't even fully adhere to. Time and again wizards would be raked over the coals for not following their own rules that they set. With the amount of "bends" and "breaks" in the pie, especially those done later on in retrospect, it more looks like it was thrown in a blender where you can somewhat tell what each color is meant to do but that doesn't stop a color from getting the benefits of or being stolen from by another color.
>>93958166*steals your slice*
>>93957391
>>93957476Bro I haven't this chick in 15 years.Btw new fags tits won
>>93958200Yeah, Green gets ramp, shocking.
>>93957470
>>93958210when was the last time red got a ritual?
>>93958201Why do they keep putting world champions onto blue flyers?Man if I was a world champion I'd wanna be put on a really obnoxiously efficient red dragon card
One of the guys I beat at the prerelease yelled at me for my last turn being clumsy
>>93958232Doesn't wotc ask them what kind of card they want? Or did they stop doing that?
>>93958223In Standard, OTJ had a temp-mana effect in Red.
>>93958246I believe the current way it works is they're presented with a few designs and asked which one they want to be on. They don't really have the time to design the cards with them nowadays, I guess.
>>93958248That's just ramp, not a ritual.
>>93958248BLB also had a temp-mana thing, albeit on an attack trigger. They tend to do temp-mana more through just Treasure nowadays, anyway.
>>93958260They just don't really do ritual effects all that much anymore. Sometimes they show up in precons and the like, but not really in Standard products.
>>93958270Which is why it'd be weird to call rituals a part of red's pie.
>>93958270>If all parties abstain from the vote, you become the monarch, then Investigate.
>>93958246This card was already designed but it was the kind of card the champion wanted so they asked for his opinion. He wanted it to be a 1/3 to deal with the monkey but the designers thought it was more balanced as a 2/1.
>>93958292>Getting mad at things that don't exist
>>93958285To a degree, yes, but temporary mana is still solidly in Red's pie, as the Rodeo Pyromancers showed for example, alongside the abundance of Treasure-making cards in Red. Green tends to get it too, albeit not to the same level because it's more likely to just ramp or get mana dorks.
I had a dream the other day1 mana artifactwhenever you cast a colourless spell create a lotus petal tokenbasically the top text of a glaring fleshraker but without the board presence. Would probably absolutely break storm and affinity in legacy and take vintage by storm
>>93958188My intent was to suggest improving discussion by limiting citing ancient cards as representing modern design philosophy but if you're suggesting that we can't have any sense of shared standards like the colour pie then I'm fine with that but then that means ignoring basically all posts that aren't discussing the power creep.
>Left the game like 3 years ago during Oko Uro Companions>Suddenly out of curiosity check the Mtggoldfish Modern page since that's what I used to play>Know almost no decks besides Amulet or Eldrazi Tron>All the decks are using almost nothing but Modern Horizons creatures God I'm glad I'm free from this slop fest. You guys have my condolences
>>93958657It's so epic and cool how people keep appearing in this general making nearly identical posts pretending competitive Modern is the only format Really interesting I think
>>93958657>playing memedern>everlol
Intra-franchise multiverse has been a disaster for MTG as a whole.
>>93958779This, but Hasbro
Am I a shitter if I don't really understand why Uro was banned?
what is this? This is utter trash, who would ever play this?
>>93958851>6/6 for 3, that gives you life, draw, and an extra land, then you pay 4 next turn to get all of that again.Its insane value, too much to be allowed in certain formats anymore. That simple.
>>93958865Goes great in my "cards that deal damage" EDH deck!
How do I cope with the fact that Thalia is going to have sex with another man? I know she's in love with him and I got so angry at my friends telling me I might have had a chance with her. I said that Thalia is out of my league and they said no she's not. And then I got really fucking angry and now we don't talk anymore because I yelled at them. I have a girlfriend and I love my girlfriend but I still have feelings for Thalia and it bothers me. It bothers me she is with another man and there's nothing I can do about it. It makes me angry because i feel like I am cheating on my girlfriend even being upset about it.
>>93958851It does a few too many things too well. At the core, he's a titan. Back in the day, creatures usually came in one of two flavors, they either had some ETB value but were trash on the board, or they had good stats/abilities for combat but no immediate value. Then came a bunch of cards that did both. Didn't matter if you were against creatures or removal, you would be getting value out of your titan. Uro also specifically draws cards, which everyone wants, and can ramp you, which everyone wants, and gains life, which is helpful against aggro decks that try to kill you before Uro can get too much value. It then also has the additional benefit of being able to recur from the graveyard. So now things like counterspells aren't even that effective at answering it. TLDR: no good answers, which means opponents are forced to try and compete with their own value engine, usually another Uro
>>93958937she ain't real dawg
>pooneer
>>93958683I literally went looking for my Deaths Shadow deck as proof. (This deck used to cost like $1000 before, now probably like $300 lel). You are free to not believe me but if everyone apparently says the same thing, don't you think it's more likely people hold that opinion? Especially considering the proof is right fucking there. I literally looked at it and went "lmao of course, sasuga wotc">>93958766I'll be honest it was the best TCG experience I ever had. Had several Prowess and Death Shadow brews and had tons of fun with them at my LCGs tournaments pre covid, and I remember it fondly. Rip Looting.
*sips* ahhh... 2018 modern.. those were the days
>>93958851the only easy way to make sure it's gone for good is with path/swords so you're down a card no matter whatif you counter it they just play it again with escapeif you try to make a better board, they are still getting insane value every turn that they attack / recur him and you can't race effectively because every trigger gains life
>>93953877It's called "shitty and inconsistent game design". Magic is full of it.
You know I'm starting to think this semen-slurping game wasn't ever actually good
>>93956789>I'm not so desperate to play it that I'll bring chinaman proxies to a sanctioned eventThen don't cry about the price of cards.
>>93959184it wasn't, and there are times where it was worse than it is nowbut don't think about that just get angry over next product
>>93959184>>93959192The game itself is good, but it's being managed by people who hate it's players.
>newfags nostalgic for deaths shadow era modernmodern hasn't had soul since they killed the jund / splinter twin / pod meta
Wew
modern's not so bad if you buy counterfeits
>>93958683>>93958992lol the schizo retard who thinks everyone is his boogeyman got btfo
>>93959361>____ isn't so bad when you steal
>>93959320Modern never had soul, it's always been the soulless husk of Extended.
>>93959371Stealing from WOTC is basically a moral imperative at this point
>>93955097I don't do custom sets, I just make cards whenever inspiration hits.
>>93959371This, but unironically
>>93959420doesn't wither prevent the "on damage" clause from ever activating?
>Kenshiro>THE anime punchman>in fucking orzhovlol
>>93959420isn't Kenshiro like the definition of WR
>>93959467Nope. Creatures with wither still *deal* damage, they just assign it as counters instead of damage. For example, giving deathtouch to something with wither still causes deathtouch to proc.
>>93959475NTA but he's powered by sadness so I would expect UB or WBNot unreasonable for legendaries to have more than one version in different colors anyway
>>93959381Based poster, zoomer BTFO, RIP Extended, Moderntrannies on suicide watch
> -1000+
>>93959420>no deathtouch come on now
>>93959504I toyed with the notion of Hokuto being associated with exiling instead of deathtouch.
hum
>>93959420>kenshiro>2/4kek
>>93959371There are people here who still give a shit about people using counterfeits? WotC hasn't deserved that sort of respect in years.
>>93959795Proxies. Counterfeits are fakes with the intention to deceive or defraud. Proxies are cards replicated to play in a non-official environment.
>shitdern
>>93959361It's notI played modern for the first time in 7 months earlier this week using a deck mostly made of fake cards and did not enjoy a single game. Every match felt like a one sided stomp in which one player had no agency and the other was goldfishing.
>>93959381My favorite part about Extended being gone is WotC keep reinventing it every 4 to 6 years...which is the time it would have taken for a block to cycle out.The format died due to piss poor management and they won't bring it back due to piss poor management, despite it fixing a lot of problems.
>>93957377Cool, then White has counterspells
Is it bad that I'm more interested in whatever theoretical UB sets they have in store than any normal sets now. Duskmourn completely killed any hope I had for a good "canon" set
>>93960280You are retarded but you are allowed to, so keep going.
>>93958865Discovering into this with Trumpeting Carnosaur in standard could be fun.
>>93960280You are the target audience anon, unlike the rest of us. How’s that funko pop collection going?
>>93958865Chandra's Ignition is a real card, but this version of it is horrible.
>year of the Lord 2024>graveyard fickle is not yet a thingexplain yourself
>>93960539>image not related
>>93959162>different abilities do different things>this is bad designI know you're trolling but half the community is actually this retarded. This isn't horsemanship to flying, this is a fundamentally different ability. In practice Ward is protection. This is "when this creature dies, draw a card.">>93958851It's 2024 and people still haven't realized that graveyard hate is good.>>93960054Sounds like a return to form then.
The OLDER BASELINE:>2/2 for 2 with upside in aggro colors is the fair stat>allows for reasonable board interactions, incentivizes larger blockers, allows wide utilityTHE OLD BASELINE:>3/2 for 2 with an upside in aggro colors is the pushed stat>games now clock out fast and if you have a hand that doesn't stabilize fast or durdles, you lose on turn 4THE NEW BASELINE:>3/2 for 2 with motherfucking haste plus upside in aggro colors is the pushed stat>holy fucking shit you're dying on turn 2-3 in standard anyway so who cares if these creatures are now more aggressive than prowess fucks in a vacuum holy shit its fucking same damage as lightning strike to your face the turn you cast it and then another 3 damage per turn every turn after thatThere was only 1 creature in the whole history of standard / type 2 up until this point that did 2 mana 3 hasty power per turn with no enabling and it died to literally everything in combat, just a 3/1 haste for 2even if you played brushfire elemental on turn 2 and a fetch on turn 3, it was the same 6 damage across 2 turnseven fucking eternal formats and commander nu-products don't get 3 power haste for 2.
>>93960861They don't care.You are right to be mad, but WotC doesn't care. They don't playtest their designs.They don't even think about their designs.
>>93960214Yes, actually. White is allowed counterspells, albeit only three kinds. Taxing ones, bouncing ones and ones that counter things that target your own things.
Hinderspell {WW}InstantReturn target spell to its owner's hand unless its controller pays {2}. If that spell targeted you or a permanent you control, counter that spell instead.Draw a card.
>>93960936Please, stop talking.
>>93960943That's just Remand in india.
>>93960936shut up lurrus
Local LGS is doing a draft for prerelease day 3, what should I try and force bros? I kind of want to go for UR rooms.
On the topic of game design, one thing that comes up a lot in my workshops is balance.Modern MTG is a perfect thing to bring up as what not to do. In a card game like this, you always want a situation where synergies result in better outcomes than individual card power. Partly because the randomness is exciting, but also for other reasons like synergies being more interesting in deckbuilding. The point is that, when individual card power exceeds the power resulting from synergies, you simply annihilate all but the most extreme and abusive synergistic decks. This is bad. There is more than one way for a "broken meta" to form, and pushing everything interesting out of a format is one of them.For good game balance, individual game pieces necessarily must be quite weak. No single game piece should ever outshine two game synergizing together. This breaks a fundamental rule of game design: Incremental advantage leading to eventual victory is essential to a good game. Sudden, arbitrary advantage resulting in won or lost game states is awful.I think Arclight Phoenix in Pioneer is just about the worst possible example of bad game design. You can interact with it perfectly, make perfect decisions in a game, only to have it machine gun treasure cruises and instantly kill you. This is a terrible state for a deck to be in. Amalia was another example of truly terrible format curation.Basically, if you're designing a game, you have to consider how valuable each incremental advantage is, and how difficult it is to claw back those increments. Hard-fought comebacks are fine, sudden and arbitrary swings between who is ahead are not.I think the current MTG designers are some of the worst game designers currently on the planet. Without even touching on the storytelling and art direction, their current product is beyond abysmal.
>>93959371So long as you aren't selling trying to sell or trade them as real cards I'm hard pressed to care. Wotc churns out so much product and power creep is so bad it's a waste of money to buy legit cards.At least half the top modern decks right now run playsets of the one ring and it's borderline retarded to spend $400 on four cards.>inb4 poor>inb4 it's all a waste of money
>>93960985>In a card game like this, you always want a situation where synergies result in better outcomes than individual card power.historically this has not been the case. the game has always been at its worst when tribal decks are metagame staples and at its best when players are offered a wide variety of degenerate value engines.
>>93961052Tribal decks aren't the only form of synergy.
>>93961060anything that requires keeping permanents on the board until you untap again to do your things is shit-tier design.
>>93960861rate idea for cardTwo Goblin Guides {RR}Creature - GoblinHasteWhenever Two Goblin Guides attacks, defending player reveals the top two cards of their library. That player puts any land cards revealed this way into their hand, then puts the other cards back on top of their library in any order.4/4
>>93959420Inflicting Decayed on any creature Kenshiro does damage too would make way more sense than this fustercluck of abilities.
>>93961098A very 'simple' Kenshiro would give him vigilance and a tap ability to destroy something that's been dealt damage this turn.
>>93960861They're eventually going to have to create a format where cards created past [INSERT YEAR] can't be played to deal with the constant bed shitting the dev team have been doing for the last 5 years.
>>93961120you should preemptively ban lurrus, slickshot showoff, oko and uro for eternity
I appreciate how the MTG designers just kind of forgot that MTG uses "Elvish" to refer to elves, and just kind of started calling everything "Elven" instead.It's a nice, subtle touch of incompetence.
>>93961210I'd double check that wasn't just for the LoTR set, where for Tolkein Elves Elvish might be incorrect.
>>93961264
>>93961276They use both.
>>93961294Which is a problem.
>>93961294Actually, the general trend seems to be "Elven" is "something that belongs to or is created by elves" and "Elvish" is "is an elf".
>>93961060Mirrorodin block as a whole then. Combo as an archetype is essentially "synergy is better than good cards" taken to the extreme and whenever it's good it makes the format unplayable.>>93961082That I don't really agree with. Ideally you should have a window to reactivly answer most threats.
>>93961310>Mirrorodin block as a whole then. Combo as an archetype is essentially "synergy is better than good cards" taken to the extreme and whenever it's good it makes the format unplayable.Synergies being too good is not the point I am asserting, and some synergies being too good does not negate my point.
>>93961210
>>93961210Meant to post this one
>>93960861mana burn and banding were too complicated, now instead you just die on turn 2 in standard :^)
>>93961320What are you saying? That synergies aren't good enough or that good cards are too good? Or is it that while randomness is good, the payoff for randomness working in your favor (Cruise chains, Storm, early Blood Moon) is too high regardless of deckbuilding constraints or board development?I'm a big Enchantress fan, an archetype based around the idea that if you play enough bad cards they'll overcome your opponent's good cards, but I guess since classic builds of the deck rely on these random turns where you untap with an engine and establish a lock or combo kill seemingly from nowhere you would consider it a problem deck if it was good. In a world where good cards are playable, every turn you let your opponent set the pace on-board you're playing at a lower rate. If one of my cards is worth 3/4 of my opponent's cards, I need to play this subgame where I dedicate resources to setting up an engine instead of winning the game or answering threats. It does create some fairly interesting board states and often feels like a puzzle on my side of the table, but then there are games where I never get off the ground and have a handful of sub-par effects.
>>93961210https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyNgTg0dZCM
>>93960861There's only been one instant in the whole history of standard that could hit any target for 3 damage at a cost of 1 mana and no downside or requirement, yet they no longer print that for Standard.
>>93961210>it's another "anon makes up rules in his head about what Magic has done and then gets mad WotC doesn't follow those rules" episode
>>93961559You know, it's weird that they haven't just printed a proper sorcery speed Lightning Bolt just to test the waters.
>>93960861And that's a good thing. I won't be satisfied until you can run a viable competitive deck with only creatures. If creatureless decks can be a thing, so should noncreatureless decks.
>>93960861I don't think a 2/2 for 2 has ever been a thing for aggro decks. Like mostly red got 3/1s. A 2/2 for 2 in red had to have a downside so it was always sidelined for something like kird ape or wild nacatl in aggro decks. Also your old baseline and new baseline are the exact same.
>>93961507>It does create some fairly interesting board states and often feels like a puzzle on my side of the table, but then there are games where I never get off the ground and have a handful of sub-par effects.Indeed, there's the balance.Firstly, that purely optimal single-card engines punish weak draws by their mere existence. In a game with randomness, you want to punish variance as little as possible Variance should be a tactical puzzle, not a weal-or-woe coinflip.Secondly, that the risk of stumbling due to finding the wrong pieces of your synergistic engine results in interesting situations. I think my favorite example of this that I can recall, is how thoughtful Birthing Pod was to play when you didn't draw Pod itself. Perhaps Pod wasn't the most fair deck overall, what with tutors ruining the game wherever they appear, but "Pod without Pod" is just an example of what I mean.I think Enchantress pushing for locks is a great place for the game to be. It's tough to interact with, but not impossible, and you can often just blast past it.
>>93961588This is the easiest counterpoint to the powercreep stuff people keep spouting. Bolt is an extremely popular card that rarely even gets off brand copycats. They could easily powercreep it, or even just reprint it, but they barely even try to make slightly weaker versions.
>>93960861>FIRE Elemental>R>Creature - Vampire Wizard>20/20>Hasterate my creature
>>93961634The general rule nowadays seems to be that Shock is JUST a smidge too weak, while Bolt is JUST a smide too strong. So Shock with upside or conditional Bolt/Bolt with downside is sort of the 'right area' for them.
>>93961647I get that, my point is that they do those things instead of printing "bolt but sidegrade" or just bolt. The powercreep in the game is intentional, but seems also very specific to certain things.
>>93961680Bolt is just a restrictive card to have in a format. 3-toughness-or-less creatures suddenly cease to be anywhere near as relevant, and mono-red aggro doesn't really need that much extra damage to push to face.
>>93961647the reality is that bolt is feeling pretty dated these days. the most balanced burn spells ever designed are the alchemy 4-damage to a creature for 2-mana sorceries that leave you with some sort of virtual card-advantage effect for each point of overkill. it solves every problem of designing a burn card; you can give a good rate that can't go dome directly but still advances a gameplan towards going to dome.
>>93961634Power creep is absolutely real. They just draw a very particular line at reprinting Lightning Bolt. That seems to be one of the few things they still hold sacred for some reason. Maybe MaRo has a really strong personal opinion on it, even as he happily lets them print other hilariously broken shit.
>>93961692Meanwhile they gladly print shit like Cut Down and Temporary Lockdown
>>93961722Well mono red is doing just fine in a format with those, so they look fine.
>>93961722Cut Down and Temporary Lockdown can't reduce your opponent's life total to 0, they can only make way for attackers to finish the job.
>>93961728Oh right, I wanna be clear that I think Lightning Bolt would be disastrous to reprint right now with all this mono-R insanity. It just surprises me that those chucklefucke at WotC have the restraint not to do it.
>>93961722>Removal colours get good removal
>>93961746Yeah, and it's resulted in a removal tribal vs turbo aggro hell meta
>>93961559I'm gonna blow your mind:Lightning Bolt is too slow for standard. It would see play but it would be either sideboard or swapped out games 2-3 against low creature count decks. Its just a removal card for red decks, they don't want it to go face anymoreStandard is now all about 1 mana creatures and pump spells that do 8+ damage on their own over the course of a game. Effects that double or triple your pump spell, trigger valiant. Leyline of Resonance, Burn Together, Cacophony Scamp, Heartfire Hero- all allow pump spells to be doubled.Imagine a common scenario>Me: t1 mountain heartfire hero>Opp: t1 plains novice inspectorNow on my next turn, would I rather:>cast swiftspear, lightning bolt the inspector, attack in, opponent at 17or>cast swiftspear, attack, get blocked, put monstrous rage on heartfire, opponent at 14, and I now have a 3/3 trample heartfire>next turn I attack, slap banesplitter on it, deal 6, burn together to deal 12, opponent deadLightning bolt deals 3 damage to opponents face for 1 manaMonstrous rage deals 3 damage to opponents face for 1 mana, then deals 1 damage per turn, and gives a combat blowout and trample and triggers valiant and is doubled by double strike, fling, death trigger damageMONO RED IS SO PUSHEDEVEN LIGHTNING BOLT WOULD BE TOO SLOW LMAOits literally just a removal spell
>>93961845This post is mindblowingly retarded and very clearly written by a guy who grinds Bo1 on Arena
>>93961845You have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about. Holy shit.
>>93961845>UG frog's in you're are path
>>93961541>"Elvish became the definitive demonym for Elves."Yep.
>>93961845They keep out bolt because it's a very efficient removal, not because damage to face.
>>93962136It's not one or the other, dummy, it's both.
>>93960936Bless you, Lurrus
>>93961845Watch them reprint Lightning Bolt into Foundations.
duksmourn is okay... but the survivors been a bunch of 80s nerds is a huge turn off
>>93962303the art direction is so fucking appalingsome horror cards are pretty sick but the tacky retro futuristic shit is vile looking
It's a shame that Duskmourn looks so trashy because I think it has a lot of really fun/interesting cards that are sort of spoiled by looking like garbage
>>93962303It's the nonsensical tech with pointless glowy bits on it straight out of ghostbusters that I really hate. Where did this shit come from? How did they manage to put it together while living in a constant hellscape? The survivors should be tooled up with makeshift garbage and what amounts to camping gear as they attempt to search for and survive in the safespaces that Marina leaves behind as she wanders. Hell, they could be equipped with actual useful shit that Valgavoth gives them to "keep them alive and feed on the terror" but I can't see elder demon moth passing out green LED machetes for some reason.
>>93962303>duksmourn is okay... but the survivors been a bunch of 80s nerds is a huge turn off"huge turn off" is an understatement. How they managed to find something gayer, more obscene and even less acceptable than fucking Gundam mechs is an atrocity inflicted upon all of human creativity.
>>93958766I liked jund
Almost finished putting together my fourteen hundred card Lutri pile
Not even in a TND way, and I know this one has already been beaten to death, but this looks like such shit. Am I crazy in thinking that this looks like a blatant AI-generated slop sketch that they painted over?
>>93959184Mtg has never had competitive integrity
>>93962448not in a TND way either, from an art standpoint black people don't look good dressed in most vivid color palettes, it's especially noticeable in UW and UR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRw9zznvsGAbro's got a point
>>93962448No it's definitely not AI.It takes effort to make art that lazy and repulsive.Usually, effort not on the part of the artist themselves. Corporate effort.
>>93962407>Hell, they could be equipped with actual useful shit that Valgavoth gives them to "keep them alive and feed on the terror" but I can't see elder demon moth passing out green LED machetes for some reason.Maybe he thinks glowing lights are cool, being a moth and all.
>>93959371>Penn>Intellectual property
>>93961052Bring back 5c slivers in modern
>>93962461>from an art standpoint black people don't look good dressed in most vivid color palettes, it's especially noticeable in UW and URthat's true, you'd never see niggaz from Mirage/Visions block dressed in the goofy shit mtg characters wear these days and the art was better for it
>>93961638>provides 0 card advantageNot fire enough>when it or another copy enters exile the top care of your library and create a treasure token you may cast cards exiled this way until end of turn.
>>93962513Fuck that, move Slivers to Pioneer.
>>93962448Theres something about this art that makes her look like shes laying on a table instead of flying through the airMaybe her skirt should be reacting to her motion
>>93962521wtf I love blacks now
>>93962555Unironically
>>93962540Deal
>>93960985>you always want a situation where synergies result in better outcomes than individual card power. >Arclight Phoenix>AmaliaBut they're both synergistic cards, Phoenix is just a haste flying creature who synergize really well with 1/2 mana cantrips, and Amalia works because she's working with other 3 drops which synergize with Coco.Better examples would've been Oko, Uro, Sheoldred or Urza's saga, who are all cards which can win you the game by just existing, without needing you to build around them
>>93962566Slivers in Pioneer are already moderately playable. Just add more support in Foundations and we're set.
I never actually bothered to look at Urza's Saga until now because I don't give two shits about memedern. What the fuck were they thinking?
>>93962555yeah unironically if they are drawn in their historical settings with appropiate colors i wouldn't have a single problem, but if they're shoehorned into european high fantasy settings for the sake of soft modern diversity then it's automatically dogshit
>>93962591>But they're both synergistic cards, Phoenix is just a haste flying creature who synergize really well with 1/2 mana cantrips,Not so.Combos aren't necessarily synergy. That is to say, a "Combo" is something of the dark shadow of synergy. Or, in other words, when your entire deck is two cards plus ways to tutor and recur those cards, you're far out of "mere synergy" territory.Likewise, there's no "Synergy" in Arclight Pheonix, it's just a list to brute force one card (Phoenix) surrounded by a slew of hyper-optimal single cards (Cruise, Shredder). Nothing about the Phoenix list is even remotely "synergistic" beyond the hyper-optimal individual cards happening to enable each other by chance.
>>93962470Not news
>>93962618They thought a Saga Land would be a cool idea and then they didn't play test it cause this is Modern
>>93962470Overly sentimental poorly produced video that appeals to my biases I remember youtube
>>93954180AI thinks Thalia is a law clerk?
>>93962448lame in a lot of points. she have no distinct shape, the movmeent is barely there, her face doesnt have any emotion, her arms are stiking out.and the perspective is all weird. boring art
>>93958200This counts as a mana ability, right?
>>93962632>t3feri is considered tame in 2024
>>93958865I like the idea of this card, but I fucking hate the flavor text
>>93962631We might have different definitions of "synergie" but still, Arclight isn't a "individual card power" if as you said you need to build a list around it so you can brute-force it.If you only have phoenixes in your deck then the card won't do much, if you only have Oko then you can just win the game
>>93962804>If you only have phoenixes in your deck then the card won't do muchIt's an above-rate creature. It has both haste and evasion and reasonable power. Phoenix would be a fine threat without its recursion ability, and hardcasting it happens very regularly.>"It's a build around"So is Griselbrand. A card demanding you put loots and Reanimate in your deck isn't "Synergy"
I fucking love duskmourn sealed, i went to 3 prereleases
>I fucking love duskmourn sealed, i went to 3 prereleases
I wonder how the hell should i deal with the aggro hell unleashing next week... Seriouly this card will be insufferable, and that's saying a lot considering the actual state of things.
>>93962856>>93962904What happened in your lives that made you such joyless husks?
>>93962946card is bad. Is this just arenababy's first spoiler season?
>>93962830>Phoenix would be a fine threat without its recursion ability>4 mana 3/2 with flying and haste without any other text>a fine threatmaybe in 2002 lol>hardcasting it happens very regularly.which is a moot point since the card would see no play if you couldn't bring it back from the graveyard
>>93962976Still not synergy. Phoenix is not a synergistic deck. It is a brute force deck relying on highly optimal single cards (Cruise, Shredder, Arclight) that happen to enable each other.
>>93962946this card is literally red mission briefing
>>93962997>mission briefingYou mean the blue Brought Back?
>>93962946Pick Your Poison, Cut Down, Elspeth's Smite.
>>93962974>Card is bad>Anon one week after>Waaa waaa ban WotC baaan!Everytime.
>>93963080but the card is bad
Why is his hair purple now?
>>93962555Damn this looks sick, I want more realistic black people in images that look natural. I swear the art suggestions tell the artists to make them black half the time like with all the angels.Those OMA playmat people need to just put 99% of cards into the right formatting so I can print any playmat I want on demand instead of getting 7 shit playmats and 1 good one every set. How is rite of the moth not getting a playmat?
>>93963119>it's not just a phase, Mom!
>>93963119He hangs out with the Reckoners more and more after Tamiyo's death. Probably just adopted some of their styles.
>>93963119to visualize the edge
>>93962904What is your annual income? What is monthly fun money budget?
Over the weekend I opened 3 Meathook Massacre II. A normal, a pre-release promo, and a foil.Does conventional wisdom say I try to sell these now, or does stuff like this increase in value?
>>93963119Obeka punched him so hard he turned queer.
>>93963269Well say one, keep two for playing with. Obviously.
>>93963269Use the scientific method to figure out which one tastes the best
>/mtg/ complains about the state of mtg>mtg also spends money on prereleases and boxes to crack
>>93963269I dunno, anon. I made a small killing with BB both ways, had 3 Mahas and 3 Innkeepers Talents after prerelease, dumped the Mahas immediately for $30/pc before they dropped, and held the talents until they rose.
>>93963269Prices usually hit their peak at 3 weeks, and settle after ~2 months.From now to 3 weeks after release is a reasonable time to sell something. If you expect a price won't hold, now is always the best time.MMII is shit so yeah sell them immediately. That shit's going to nosedive like Anzrag
>>93963348You should be vocal about the parts you dislike of a thing you like. For the potential betterment of said thing.
>>93963348Limited formats are the only playable ones at this point, so that's all I play.
My favorite thing about brewing a new deck is having to go through every single card and change the version to a non-abomination version.Half of all spells defaulting to the OTJ unreadable trash frame is awesome.
What is some tech for this retard? I'm not looking for a CEDH build, just something to use at low power tables.
>>93963400Hey friend, looks like you got the wrong place.The leather club's two doors down.>>93947766
>>93963406Ope yep wrong thread I'll be on my way
>>93963441Have a good day.
>>93963441Ooh now that he's gone.*ahem*Commander is, in fact, for fags!
>>93963475Right, ho!
>>93962521>>93962555>black character looks like they came from a classic swords and sandals adventure>that's cool>black character looks like they came from the latest BBC historical drama>that's lameit's as simple as that
>>93963400They should have chaged all the fucking survivor card for Scarecrows, Toys and clows. Faggots.
Are we unanimous on the removal of blocks being a bad thing? Khans-Fate-Dragons was probably the zenith of MTG theming/storytelling for me, and seeing them abandon it ENTIRELY for reasons I don't really get (is it just a shekel move?) has bothered me since they did it.
Finishes My 1st commander deck, very rough around the edges but thats what happens when you are from argentina where tcg and cards are hard to find and expensive (the commander is tatyova benthric druid but it hasnt arrived yet
>>93963876>is it just a shekel moveYes. Need to pump out more content and slot in dogshit like Marvel or AC.
>>93963887>Another one.Can these people not read signs?The leather club is two doors down, bud.>>93947766
>>93963876Blocks unaminously were worse from a sales perspective. Second/third sets sold way worse than the first ones. Some sold better (New Phyrexia for example) but still not MORE than the first set, and nowhere near enough to justify their continued existence from a corporate angle. Magic is unfortunately still tied to a corporation that wants to make money, so they won't do the thing that makes them less money.
>>93963935>Blocks unaminously were worse from a sales perspective. Second/third sets sold way worse than the first ones.NOOOOOOOO NOT THE SALES!!!!!
>>93963876I want blocks back so bad...
>>93963952EDH players crave variety from set to set.
>>93963943Blocks also half-sucked, too? Like some were good, but it feels like every block set I hear about people complained about in some sense, even just in the idea of staying too long in one place.
>>93963876No. Most blocks had mediocre second sets and awful third sets. Look at the last few before they got axed.>avacyn restored>dragon's maze>journey into nyx>dragons of tarkirI don't have the numbers, but I would wager these are the least popular out of each of their respective blocks. Let's not pretend like anons didn't shit on dragon's maze or DTK when they dropped. WotC clearly wasn't able to keep the juices going for three sets in a row every time.
>>93963988Two-set blocks definitely had some potential but they kind of just botched it every time except... Maybe Kaladesh? That was kind of alright.
>>93963971>Blocks also half-sucked, too? Like some were good, but it feels like every block set I hear about people complained about in some sense, even just in the idea of staying too long in one place.Blocks aren't the problem. Bad execution was the problem.The solution is to get better designers, or to give the ones you have more time, not to kill blocks.If I were in charge, I would have solved the problem by having one very easy to design Core Set woven in between each block. No attempt to make it different from the last Core Set, just a steady brick of staple cards from the previous year of Standard. Basically Standard reprint sets. The team in charge of those sets would be entirely separate, and play a double role as the Standard balance team.This would give the lore/story/mainline designers a full three month grace period between blocks where they could plan thoroughly.Great blocks like OG Ravnica are well received.
>>93963887Wow a tatyova simic pile? Dang thats innovative? With a commander? Goes great in standard, legacy or modern. Possibly even pioneer or what the new kids are calling "elder dragon oathbreaker"
Can anyone help me think of any way to recur korlash over and over to tutor my entire deck to the field?
>>93963998The good block were the exception, not the rule. OG Ravnica worked because it barely worked like a block,
>>93964071good blocks*
>>93964071Yeah, and if your product designers are bad enough that the majority of your products are bad, the solution is to get better designers, not to ruin your product.
>>93964082Those designers were the ones who created blocks like Ravnica. They did it by deviating from the block formula.
>>93964124>Those designers were the ones who created blocks like Ravnica. They did it by deviating from the block formula.Ravnica was not a deviation from the block formula, the fuck are you smoking?
>>93963988>>avacyn restoredwas fine except for a few broken cardshaving a block actually end on a positive note was nice coming from New Phyrexia and Rise of the Eldrazi>>dragon's mazedumb storyline and putting all 10 guilds in the same set was a bad idea>>journey into nyxfine but slightly underpowered>>dragons of tarkirthe dragon based factions are just lame compared to the original clans
>>93964145>the dragon based factions are just lame compared to the original clansLame is an understatement.The decision to finally print a new set of Elder Dragons after decades and making them two color instead of completing the Elder Dragon cycle by making them wedge was one of the ugliest, most repulsive failures in MTG history.
People have -100 memory, must be nice don't remember how absolutely shit blocks were and how we were trapped for a long time with the shit WotC wanted we to eat.
>>93964183Blocks were great. Triple small set drafts to clear out extra stock at the end of a block's era was peak comfy.3x 5DN is the best draft format of all time.
>TURN 1 LEYLINE OF RESONANCE, MOUNTAIN, CACOPHONY SCAMP>YOUR GOEBIN SIMBLY EBIN
>>93964027It's a 4 card combo that just about kills you, but it's doable.
>>93964131You can read the design articles yourself. Most blocks were basically outlined as a three act story, whereas Ravnica was simply a single group of ideas split up into three parts.
>>93964071grn rna was fine, toowar, not so much
>>93964222>Innovating on the formula.>"Deviation from the formula."You not being able to tell these two things apart suggests you are extremely stupid.
>>93964195you play mountain? i scoopyou play leyline? i scoopyou play bo1 fake magic? you deserve a shitty metagame
I'd even take two set blocks, the single set per plane is just so boring and feels rushed.
>>93964239Imagine Thunder Junction block.Or, god forbid me for even think about it, MKM block.
>>93964233Funny how that innovation is doing the exact same thing later sets did by gutting blocks. They dropped the evolution aspect in Ravnica and it was extremely well received, so they decided to keep doing it.
>>93964222you could apply this logic to any plane though, but they rarely did and instead made blocks that either had boring third sets or had third sets that completely changed the theme and nature of the planeonce they started focusing on the gatewatch it's like every plane needed to be the setting of multiversal disaster movie instead of having its own internal stories and local conflicts
>>93964258>innovation is doing the exact same thing later sets did by gutting blocks.Pfaaahahahaha you are a FUCKING RETARD.
>>93964251These shit meme/trope sets/planes wouldn't exist (at least in the shameless SHAMELESS form MKM/OTJ/Duskmourn/predictably, Death Race do) if they still had to do the work to flesh out a plane/story and make it something they can stretch over multiple sets.
>>93964236>its only a bo1 proble->ACK
>>93962632>People relentlessly complained about W&6 and Ragavan being peak power creep like a year ago, now they've been more or less power crept out of the format
>>93964264>you could apply this logic to any plane thoughThey do now. It's why Bloomburrow and Duskmourn aren't multiversal disasters or significantly changed.
>>93964251if the plane isn't interesting enough to have at least two consecutive sets there, it shouldn't be the focus of a set at all and should instead be background material for a core set or supplementary product
>>93964270>more cope, more ad hominemWhatever helps you sleep at night.
>>93964290Yes, and Bloomburrow would have been better as a two or three set block with each set focusing on specific parts of the plane in more detailNothing could save Duskmourn though except a significant thematic rewrite
>>93964319>tfw we're not going to experience a bloomburrow block until 2.5 years from now when they release Return to Bloomburrow and reverse course on removal of blocksbros...............
>>93964319>3 sets in a row of le funny cute animal shityeaaah... no, thanks.
>>93964319>Yes, and Bloomburrow would have been better as a two or three set block with each set focusing on specific parts of the plane in more detailImagine if WotC took the good ideas and actually fleshed them out...and scrapped the bad ideas like OTJ and MKM...imagine...
>>93964319>three bloomburrow sets in a row, each featuring 3 or 4 different tribesSounds awful. Why did people like Ravnica? Was it just the novelty?
>>93964346Nobody can predict which sets will be well received and which won't. Having blocks doesn't just mean more of the good sets, it also means having more of the bad sets.
>>93964319A block of Bloomburrow? Ewww no, make a block with Eldraine, now that would be cool and we could have a good block.
>>93964349>Sounds awful. Why did people like Ravnica? Was it just the novelty?It was the SOVL.
>>93964362>Nobody can predict which sets will be well received and which won't.Lmfao fuck off you moron, yes they can.I fucking can.Good sets are well received. Bad sets are not. Wa la.>"But you can't predict what a good set will be!"Yes you can, fuck off. Every single set that releases, you can tell whether or not it will be a flop by the end of spoiler season.
>>93964368>SOVLWhat does that mean.
>>93964386SomethingObviouslyVeryLikeable
>>93964346What the fuck else is there to see in Bloomburrow? Genuine question, what do you think they could do in Bloomburrow 2 that would be interesting? Not some nebulous idea of "cute animals doing cute things", I mean actual stories and cards that aren't just retreading the same thing again.
>>93964386It means i like it.
I think that the worst set in all of mtg was Murder at Markov Manor. The worst because it was...forgettable. Utterly forgettable.
Having no blocks means:* No detailed worldbuilding* No fleshed out characters* No storyline moving along* No block mechanics interacting in limited in novel waysWho the flying fuck were characters on OTJ or BLB or any of that? I don't want to read your shitty fanfic quality walls of text on some magic website that 1% of the playerbase actually reads throughI want to see the plot unfold on the cards. I could follow Urza's entire life story and the invasion saga from card text aloneWorldbuilding got chucked out the window with rapid fire blocks. Duskmourn is the worst example of that, there's absolutely zero presence of a lived in environment. No locations, no interacting characters, no ecosystem, no geography. Its a total contrast with Innistrad, which was fully designed as a fantasy world for its first set knowing it would be the setting for a block, all built on the same idea of "horror tropes" as duskmourn. Except DSK just threw all that out the window and said "HERES IP FROM MOVIES, MEMBER GHOSTBUSTERS MEMBER ANNABELLE MEMBER LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS LOL". I mean hell at least when we got The Fly and Dr Jekyll and so on, they were wrapped logically into a gothic plane where distinctive cities and wilderness and seas existed. You could see the difference of Kessig, Gavony, Nephalia, etc
>>93964368that has nothing to do with the block format though
>>93964393>What the fuck else is there to see in Bloomburrow?I don't know, maybe the shit you fucking develop when planning out a three set block instead of a random single theme park set?
>>93964393How about Bloomburrow in winter?
>>93964398Bad aesthetics and design and mechanics, but hey at least MKM had a shit ton of pushed and playable cardsNowhere even close to the total fuckup that was the worst set of all time, battle for zendikar
>>93964409It's so fucking funny and sad that they can't think hard enough to understand this
>>93964400>they were wrapped logically into a gothic planeWe're not having this discussion again, no they weren't.
>>93964400Do you remember when in fat packs there were books about the block's lore? Ahh, good times..
>>93964403>that has nothing to do with the block format thoughAh.Well, RGD limited was a skill-testing nightmare of thoughtful drafting and slow, methodical game states.
>>93964362this is a total copea company that makes a creative product should have some faith in their ideas instead of focus testing everything to death
>>93964393First set would establish the world, all the animal tribes, their jobs. Hint at the lore of the world, Lily, Calamity beasts. Second set would be what we got, calamity comes to valley.It's not that complicated.
>>93964433>a company that makes a creative product should have some faith in their ideas instead of focus testing everything to deathThe funny part is when focus testing produces fucking garbage like Duskmourn, and the suits go "Awhaaaaat?! But it was a sure hit!" then blame some random non sequitur like "Survivors didn't resonate with our consumer base" instead of themselves being stupid, incompetent fuckheads who don't know anything about game design.
>>93964440This. Just like what Theros did.Theros= World settingBorn of the Gods= Showing characters and main storyJourney into Nyx= Story ending
How come Mark Hackwater still has his job?
>>93964409>single theme park setAs opposed to three theme park sets?
>>93964448Theros block was great, just low power.Not a high point of MTG by any means, but it was a perfectly fine block from a lore perspective. Just a few more playable cards in the final two sets and it would be beloved as a block.Lack of power really did hurt it though.
>>93964457As opposed to, you know, an actual story?
>>93964448And how do you think Born of the Gods + Journey into Nyx was received? Because you better not be trying to gasilght me into thinking that shit was beloved.
>>93964457>As opposed to three theme park sets?YES.EXPANSIVE FANTASY ADVENTURES > SHITTY MONSTER OF THE WEEK SLOP
>>93964470not what market research shows
>>93964393>What the fuck else is there to see in Bloomburrow?There's a whole world beyond Valley. Set a story with an expedition from three tree city to take down a calamity beast in the wilds.
>>93964418We're going to have this discussion againOn every single design levelWorldbuilding. Aesthetics. Artistry.
>>93964476Your should kill yourself and every hasbro employee should kill themselves and everyone who lives in india should kill themselves amen
>>93964466>>93964470THEY TRIED THAT. They did story blocks multiple times and everyone hated it. We were just talking about Ravnica, which was three straight sets of having a story disconnected from the block structure. That was one of, if not their most well received blocks.
>>93964476>not what market research showsFUCKMARKETSMAKEAGOODGAME
>>93964468To be honest, I don't know how the public received it. I mentioned it only to agree with what that anon said, about using three sets blocks to gradually develop the storyline and show the lore instead of just doing all at once.Which blocks/sets were the best recieved? Let me guess, Innistrad?
>>93964481funny how your comparison for Arabella is delver and not the actual doll card which doesn't fit into Innistrad at all, much less Magic
>>93964492>They did story blocks multiple times and everyone hated it.No they didn't.People didn't by badly designed sets then the retards at WotC misinterpreted that, then started lying about the reasons for product failures instead of accepting fault for their shit product.
>>93964504>Which blocks/sets were the best recieved?Ravnica, the block that did none of that shit.
>>93964500fuck the modern audience as well lol
>>93964505>duskmourn is so bad they're copying the same stuff they already referenced before, only worsedamn, you've convinced me that innistrad is 1000x better
>>93964500Not with Hasbro in charge.
>>93964513So since they're selling better now than before, that means current sets are better designed, right? That's your logic?
>>93964504I would gather Ravnica was the best received block, and even then its second and third sets sold not great. Probably there's some cases where the third sets outsold the second, and those'd be the ones where the third set did some dramatic overhaul, like Rise of the Eldrazi or New Phyrexia.
>>93964440You could also maybe split the animal tribes between the sets a bit to help limited. Once again trying to do 10 "guilds/tribes" did not work out at all for but a second set could have helped that
Let's see. Give me three reasons about why Duskmourn is bad.
>>93964504>Which blocks/sets were the best recieved? Let me guess, Innistrad?IPA, RGD and Zedikar are generally considered the gold standard for blocks.Alara block is rarely discussed but was pretty much flawless other than the janky "no monocolor" experiment of Reborn.Lorwyn/Shadowmoor worked as an experiment in two set blocks but Faeries were a little over-tuned in Standard.I personally think Ixalan was pretty great and wish it was a 3-set block.
>>939645351) I like blocks instead of rushed single sets2) Many of the cards are ugly digital AI slop3) peepee poopoo kill yourselfI actually like the design of many duskmourn cards, desu, but have the same problems with power creep and etc as are expressed by many.
>>93964527>So since they're selling better now than before, that means current sets are better designed, right? That's your logic?No, it isn't.The solution to bad design is not even worse, but more marketable design.The solution to bad design is good design.
>>93964505and Creepy Doll actually manages to evoke a trope while staying in-universe, thematically consistent and translated into gothic fantasy, without being a specific reference to unlicensed IPsee the difference?Delver of Secrets // Insectile Abberation is a reference to The Fly by George Langelaan. But they didn't just copy/paste his homework and change the name slightly like they did with Arabella, they gave it distinct artwork and flavor text and a thematically consistent mechanic that evokes its own gothic storyline that makes sense on Innistrad, disbelief suspended.How unbelievably lazy is it to just take an existing movie and change the name very slightly and say "HERES ANABELLE LOL WE DIDN'T LICENSE HER BUT HERE SHE IS ANYWAY"
>>93964481>ethereal armor>MarinaObjectively nothing wrong with these, other than Marina being edhslop.>fear of abductionCombines the real world idea of aliens with Valgavoth's moth motif.>ghost vacuum>living phoneBetter justified than Innistrad flamethrowers.>arabellaCreepy Doll, except it actually meshes with the rest of the plane.
>>93964540>ZendikarWasn't Rise of the Eldrazi considered pretty polarising?
>>93964481>Arabella>Lacks interstellar gator skin boots>Also lacks a Barbarella silver swimsuit>It's just a raggedy-assfuck dollFuck this set
>>93964535>Let's see. Give me three reasons about why Duskmourn is bad.1 - Anachronistic setting that is completely disjointed from MTG's core aesthetic at large. Compounded by terrible, shallow worldbuilding founded on a nonsensical villain made of contrivances.2 - Terrible art direction that rarely amounts to anything more than a Ghostbusters ripoff.3 - Lazy design. All mechanics in the set are just derivative, power crept variants of previous mechanic. (Dread > Manifest, Impending > Suspend, Eerie > Constellation)Honorable mention - The introduction of Baseball to MTG canon.
>>93964552>Objectively nothing wrong with these, other than Marina being edhslop.yes yes women MUST wear the burqa to go outside in 2024>Combines the real world idea of aliens with Valgavoth's moth motif.ayy lmao>Better justified than Innistrad flamethrowers."WHO YOU GONNA CALL?"-t purple haired lesbian cartoon character with manhands
>>93964456because his job is to be the punching bag
>>939645351. Leyline of Resonance2. Baseball Bat3. Planeswalker genocide incomplete
>>93964568(/)
>>93964562>Wasn't Rise of the Eldrazi considered pretty polarising?No pretty much everybody loved it. It was the most played limited format to date, at the time.Going from the mach speed apocalypse of Zendikar limited to the slow, brutal battlecruiser slogfest of RoE was an great whiplash that was executed perfectly.
here me outMarina Vendrell 5cc rooms with Marvin, Agatha's Soul Cauldron and Caretaker's Talent>make tokens>discard marina>use marina's ability to unlock rooms
>>93964547>>93964568Solid answers, I can't argue with that.>>93964570Reasonable
>>93964456Trust the "research" bro. Our "surveys" say x didn't work/ y was popular. Not going to show you any actual figures/ data to back this up of course
>>93964589cool idea except there's zero rooms worth unlocking instead of just running the normal caretaker's talent/forge shell with boardwipes
>>93964568>Compounded by terrible, shallow worldbuilding founded on a nonsensical villain made of contrivances.Elaborate on this. I'll agree the art direction is a bit muddled especially with regards to the survivors, but why does the worldbuilding fail?
>>93964551>thematically consistent and translated into gothic fantasyPorcelain dolls aren't gothic horror, I have no idea how many times I need to say this. You might as well give Innistrad airplanes, that's the same time period.
>>93964573How powerful is that leyline?
>>93964580not to mention how incredibly tactical RoE felt compared to the slot machine formats that came before it. It actually felt like drafting gave you control because of the consistency of having finishers at commonwould have been a perfect format if not for needing to save removal for dawnglare invoker every fucking game, one badly designed card at common is all it takes to oppress a format
>>93964607There's an altwin room if you've unlocked 8 different named rooms
>>93964610Shut the fuck up you autistic retard
>>93964623No I won't, fuck you. If other people are going to bitch and moan about how anachronistic Duskmourn feels, I'm going to vent about how anachronistic the entirety of Innistrad is. Except Innistrad is far more egregious, the only reason it gets away with it is the piss poor understanding of history most people have.
>it's that floating possession thing you see in movies, please clap
>>93964609>Elaborate on thisDemons in MTG don't "feed."They are traditional European folkloric demons of pacts, deals and wickedness, ageless and fuelled by malice and selfishness. Valgavoth is not an MTG demon, it's some random garbage built with zero concern for the overall setting it was supposed to slot into.I say shallow world building but that's a lie. Duskmourn has no world building. It's just a shallow, arbitrary "Rule of Cool" spray cobbled together with shaky contrivances.
>>93964535I like Duskmourn but i can understand retards here that dislike it, you present them a baseball or a television and they lose their mind.
>>93964671>Demons in MTG don't "feed."Why not? Different planes have different demons.
>>93964610Why the fuck would a fantasy plane be restricted to the later time periods that europe started importing a material already invented hundreds of years earlier in china?The people of Innistrad have tricorne hats that weren't made until the 18th century and gothic stained glass from the 12th century and electricity from the 19th centurynobody gives a shitas long as they are all thematically consistent with a fantasy setting
>>93964646You're right. Like those ghost flamethrowers lol
>>93964679>Why not? Different planes have different demons.No they don't.Almost all demons in MTG conform to a single overarching "Demon" aesthetic up until Valgavoth. Whether its Hidetsugu's rage or Malfegor's embodiment of lies and treachery, the general character of demons in the MTG multiverseis very well established. Valgavoth is not an MTG demon, he is a Horror.
Fuck it>Earth is MTG canonwhat's the story?
>>93964676I don't mind the tech or the pre-House setting, personally, I do mind the survivors as-is, because they don't feel like they exist in what is, effectively, a Hellworld scenario. They feel like people exploring that Hellworld that came in from outside (which, sure, some are, but that's a technicality at best). There's some handwavey nonsense about the cards not all being in the same timeframe (which has happened before, Neheb and Haktos are two characters who were in sets despite not being contemporary characters for example) but that feels an awkward thing to justify it with. There's four survivor cards I'll overly say I like. Shrewd Storyteller looks like a relatively bedraggled but not beaten type, Rootwise Survivor looks like he's at least torn up and keeping what little he has. Veteran Survivor maybe looks too chill, but he's clearly the sort of "chill because he's earned it through living this long" type and his outfit looks somewhat scrabbled together. Rip, tropey and reference-y as she is, does at least look like somebody who's struggled and been beat up. The rest look too 'clean' or don't even look like survivors, like the Acrobatic Cheerleader (that's the only one I REALLY dislike).
>>93964679To go even further, you will be hard pressed to find a Demon in MTG that is not totally anthropomorphic: 2 arms, 2 legs, maybe some wings.Very rare exceptions like Malfegor only slightly breach this. Valgavoth is COMPLETELY outside MTG's core aesthetic for demons.No, different planes don't have different demons. They never have. Demons of different planes vary in surface aesthetic, some are red some are black, but ALL planes have the same fundamental "character" for the demons therein.Valgavoth is not a Demon.
>>93964705It's a plane where there's no magic because mana here has a "mundane quality". Magical beings and things brought here quickly wilt and then vanish into dust.
>>93964705>what's the story?We sell Baseball Bats through the Omenpaths.
>>93964705
>>93964703Demons are different on various planes. Kaldheim's demons are genocidal lunatics. Innistrad's demons are power-grubbing schemers. Dominarian demons seem barely sentient, more like living black mana. Alaran demons feed directly on mortal life force. Arcavian demons actively feed on negative emotions, in fact, so there's a point against you.
>>93964481It's kinda crazy how there is nothing in Magic that is excellent anymore. Formats, prices, Limited, art.They haven't paid Steve Argyle to draw a titty monster in like 15 years. He's just phoning it in with whatever they give him. It's just so crazy they sideline him because he drew art of Liliana and Chandra fucking and then Wizards goes on to suggest that Nissa and Chandra are fucking.It's so fucking crazy. I can't even say it's a great game anymore because there is simply no place where a great game could be had because stores have closed and whoever remains in the game is a braindamaged idiot who doesn't seem to think anything is wrong. I tell people it's like the cocaine got five times more expensive and it only gets you 10% as high and the crowd is far less financially responsible as before. It's just not a respectable drug addiction anymore in any way.
>>93964681>The people of Innistrad have tricorne hats that weren't made until the 18th century and gothic stained glass from the 12th century and electricity from the 19th century>nobody gives a shitThat's exactly the problem. People only like or dislike these things based on their god awful understanding of tropes. It's not cohesive or consistent at all, they just prefer certain tropes and give them a pass. Anyone seeing those discrepancies and actually understands the background understands how badly mashed together they are.
>>93964744>Demons are different on various planes.No they aren't.
>>93964745Add cardboard quality to the list of not-so-good things
>>93964755>If I just say "nuh-uh" I'll be correct
>>93964755Yeah they are. Just think about therosian demons. They weren't even demons to begin with.
>>93964753This is such insane nitpicking faggotry I don't even know what to say to you. You really don't see the difference between a tricorne hat on a magic card and a tv/digital watch/etc etc?
>>93964671>Innistrad was poor worldbuilding because their vampires were different from Dominaria's and Zendikar'sThis is what you sound like.
>>93964759I am correct.All demons across planes conform to the same overall character.Pointing out surface elements that all conform to that same character, from lunatic rage to unfettered pride, does not alter this root overall design aesthetic.Valgavoth is not a demon. He's not even REMOTELY a demon.
>>93964671>Demons in MTG don't "feed."
>>93964781Insatiable avarice =/= moral bodily needs.Stop pretending they are equatable.
>>93964778Maybe he was a demon like them, now he's like an evil god or something
>>93964793...And what Valgavoth has is largely avarice driven. He clearly sustained himself for several years before Marina unleashed him, so he probably does not strictly 'need' to eat fear.
>>93964771>You really don't see the difference between a tricorne hat on a magic card and a tv/digital watch/etc etc?What difference is there, other than the typical consoomer relying less on tropes to understand the latter? For people who say they hate tropey worldbuilding, you all seem to love them when it's the tropes you personally enjoy.
>>93964753but there's literally no reason porcelain can't exist in a gothic setting on a fantasy planespecific materials and even technology doesn't have to be locked to exact timeframes, it just cannot be modernits an exclusionary rule, not an inclusive onePorcelain is absolutely contemporaneous with a gothic fantasy setting, it was invented in 1000 BC and refined by 200 BC and became a standardized recognizable mass produced product by 800 AD.The timing of the marco polo expedition in OUR universe shouldn't constrain the development and trade in a different universeIts a limit on the maximum technological development, like how firearms don't exist in magic even in planes with settings more technologically advanced in other areas. If we had a jamuraa set with medieval tribal african nations, it shouldn't include tropes and technology from western europe even if that was contemporaneous because its clearly more advanced than what a fantasy african setting should have. But porcelain is not 'more advanced'
>>93964794>Maybe he was a demon like them, now he's like an evil god or somethingI don't care about speculation.Valgavoth is not a demon. The core difference between the wicked desire to dominate and consume, and Valgavoths apparent pathetic mortality who needs to chow down constant Snicker candy bars or he withers and dies, is as clear as day to me and it should be fo you.
>>93964745Legitimately 12 years not counting reprints.
>>93964671>every single plane needs to be dominaria with a twist, no plane is allowed to do anything different
>>93964798>...And what Valgavoth has is largely avarice driven.No it isn't. He dies if he doesn't feed.He is motivated by the need for a sandwhich. He's just a mortal dude who happens to have a weird diet.Valgavoth is not a demon. He is not motivated by evil, he is motivated by the munchies. This is fundamentally different from what demons are established to be in MTG.Valgavoth is just a regular dude who happens to be stuck in a house.
>>93964824>No it isn't. He dies if he doesn't feed.Where's this said.
>>93964807>If we had a jamuraa set with medieval tribal african nations, it shouldn't include tropes and technology from western europe even if that was contemporaneous because its clearly more advanced than what a fantasy african setting should haveSo why does a medieval european setting have tropes and technology that are clearly more advanced than what they should have?
>>93964814>every single plane needs to be dominaria with a twist, no plane is allowed to do anything differentCorrect. The established rules need to be consistent.If you want to do something different, you make it different. You are not allowed to take already established things and just pretend the rules of those things don't exist."hungry moth cool" is not thoughtful design and it breaks the rules to make said hungry moth a Demon in the context of MTG.
>>93964842Valgavoth's hunger is entirely driven by a desire to gain power for power's sake. He does not feed to live, he feeds to grow.
>>93964826It's established by the fact that he fucking feeds and clothes the survivors.He's a hungry nanny, not a demon.
>>93964842This series isn't for you, never was for you, and never will be for you. It's the original multiversal fantasy setting, if different worlds having different rules and different kinds of creatures is a problem for you, not only do I not understand why you continue to care about this game, I can't understand why you'd have ever cared about it.
>>93964854>Valgavoth's hunger is entirely driven by a desire to gain power for power's sake. He does not feed to live, he feeds to grow.No he doesn't. I mean, they can say that, but it would be a lie that contradicts the actual story.>"Trapped and unable to feed, the demon [Valgavoth] had sunk into hibernation..."
>>93964866silence wotsheep
>>93964866shut the fuck up rosewater
>>93964808Now that you put it like that, I have to agree with you.
>>93964873Why am I even arguing with you. You have a preconceived notion that you are correct because demons "have to be" something when literally the only consistent thing about demons in MTG is that they are manifestations of mana or corrupted once-mortals.
>>93964866>This series isn't for you, never was for you, and never will be for you. It's the original multiversal fantasy setting, if different worlds having different rules and different kinds of creatures is a problem for you, not only do I not understand why you continue to care about this game, I can't understand why you'd have ever cared about it.>"Bro if you just ignore the rules, you can pretend you're a genius for breaking them!"This is what we call "Bad design"."Bro I know it looks like a kumquat and it's literally a walking kumquat, but it has the "Dragon" creature type. You see, dragons on this plane just look exactly like kumquats! You just need to accept that!"No thank you. I don't.
>>93964895>You have a preconceived notion that you are correct because demons "have to be" somethingYes, precisely.They have to be Demons, as established by MTG lore.To invent, hungry hungry hippo moth and call it a Demon is an incorrect thing to do.
>>93964917I blame commander for all these retards who are perfectly ready to just throw everything established in MTG's setting out the window
>>93964917The only point you seem to have is that demons don't need to eat. Why not? Clearly other planes have demons that get hungry. Is Innistrad now a fake plane because its demons have to eat, apparently?
I accept that Invoke Prejudice is not racist but historically accurate.
>>93964935>? Clearly other planes have demons that get hungry.No they don't and they never have, stop lying.Demons that devour things because they exist to inflict pain are not equatable to the sad, sorry sack of shit that needs to eat to survive like a lowly mortal that is Valgavoth.
>>93964807>specific materials and even technology doesn't have to be locked to exact timeframes, it just cannot be modernAdding onto my other post, why is it that when New Capenna has modernish cars, people hate it, yet when Innistrad has modernish flamethrowers, people are fine with it? If it's modern things you specifically hate, they should both be criticized.
>>93964934Did you whine when Ixalan had feathered dinosaurs and conquistador vampires, too?
>>93964953They exist to do a thing and if they are unable to do that thing they wither away, yes.
>>93964968>They exist to do a thing and if they are unable to do that thing they wither away, yes.MTG demons do not wither away when they fail to eat regular ham sandwiches.They are ageless, eternal, amoral beasts of sin and vice. Being unable to perform evil does not upset them. It does not weaken them. If locked away, they don't grow hungry or fall into hibernation. They wait, unphased, and wait, and wait until they can do evil again, and that is all.Valgavoth is not a demon.
god, every time I look through Innistrad cards I see something worse than before
>>93964964Werewolf strapped to a magical jetpack?
>>93964988Nice arbitrary rules you made up on the spot, did you know Urza isn't a planeswalker because a planeswalker needs to have eyes that aren't powerstones?
>>93964964Flamethrowers that look like something a fantasy alchemist put together are a completely different ballpark from "literally just 1920s cars"
>>93965026>Nice arbitrary rules you made up on the spotIt's called three decades of worldbuilding precedent you fucking braindead homo erectus with leprosy.
>>93964995I'm not going to even touch the later Innistrad sets, I don't want to allow people the excuse they always use "well it started good and they butchered it later". No, the world was shit from the start. Every single card I've been posting has been from the original block.
>>93965040I honestly don't care about the dumb shit in Innistrad. All I care about is how hot Arlinn is.
>>93965035So it's the aesthetics that makes the difference? A gun that looks like something a fantasy smith put together is fine?
Anyway these got leaked.
>>93965090>no actual gunsbooooooooooooriiiiiing, that Lorado fanmade expansion was miles better than this sloppy slop
>>93965100>mehvelMan, it shouldve been FF that got leaked first. Also is that new wording on stat doubling on Wolverine?
>>93965090>>93965106I would have been fine with bows & spears matching the trad wild west native aesthetic.Somehow they manage to find a solution that is more gay and less cool than both options.
>>93965116this
>>93964835because its not medieval european>>93964964because they're kept consistent with in-universe constraintsIf you live in a world filled with magic, you'd look to ways to weaponize that magic. An alchemist spraying geistflame is thematically consistent in the same way Dr Frankenstein is experimenting with using electrical stimulation to revivify the dead, but modern circuitry powering a handheld LED screen display is absolutely fucking notrage thrower is no more technologically advanced than greek fire which existed all the way back to 900 BC. Its literally just a flammable material sprayed out of a tank, in this case its geistflame rather than flammable liquid.when frankenstein was shown using electricity, he wasn't plugging a toaster into a modern outlet, he wasn't writing his findings on a blog posted to the internet via ""network terminals"""but holy fucking shit duskmourn has literal VHS tapes that conform to IEC 60774-1 standards because this set is so fucking phoned in they just 1:1 copy/pasted real world objects into duskmourn instead of trying to give them any type of in-universe fantasy counterpart
>we made a card out of the trope, please clap
>>93965114>Also is that new wording on stat doubling on Wolverine?Unclear. It's not a replacement effect when worded this way, so I guess it's functionally a new ability, because to my recollection no creature just has a flat "this deals double damage at all times to everything".
>>93965100>Captain America has American colorslol>BLACK PANTHER ISN'T MONO-BLACKwhat the fuck?
>eat dinner>go on walk>come back>check MTG>everyone is giving (You)s to the autistic faggot again
>>93965149Literally nothing about Black Panther as a character is Black in Magic terms. He's EXTREMELY Selesnya in personality and power-set (with arguably some Blue snuck in).
>>93965156>everyone is giving (You)s to the autistic faggot agaiI'm but a humble (you) farmer, and I am very good at my job sir.
>>93965127what fantasy counterpart could there be to a vhs? Or to an old tv?
>>93965163Priest's Black Panther is very Esper.
>>93965100Surprised they seemed to have gotten the colors right
>>93965181As a broad character, he's Selesnya, though. Spider-Man could be literally every colour but he's broadly Naya or Bant, for example.
>>93965100what is that mana symbol on the ability for t'challa and WHITE captain america?
>>93965188Mark Rosewater is a fucking huge comics fan, he would be ridiculously anal about them being the correct colours. Tony should be Grixis, but given these aren't likely the only cards they'll get (I imagine these won't be in the actual Marvel set or some such) he may still get one.
>>93965193Spidey should actually be UWR, Cap should just be WR
>>93965208at least he did one thing right then, the Hackwater
>>93965100Not Magic the Gathering.
>>93965215Yeah Cap definitely ain't blue.Gotta be FREEDOM! colored for the meme though.
What color would Storm be? Monoblue?
>>93965227They did it with Liberty Prime people would riot if they didn't do the joke again
>>93965127>its not medieval europeanWhat time period do you think it is, anon?>If you live in a world filled with magic, you'd look to ways to weaponize that magicWhy do you think guns and flamethrowers are the only ways to weaponize magic? Why wouldn't communications technology be an area of research for magic? Inventing phones or even radios would be extremely useful for Innistrad, saving a tremendous number of lives, yet they don't do it. Also, Greek fire was not carried around in tanks on your back, it took millennia to develop that technology.
>>93965193Yeah, I'm not the guy who said he should be mono-black, and I agree that the current version fits WG. I have been hoping since the announcement that the set would include different versions of the characters depicting them in distinct eras.
>>93965233Storm is... Izzet or Temur. Her power-set is squarely within the Izzet area, and Green because very very nature-associated.
>>93965260Very real chance we see Symbiote Spidey, or something. I dunno how many versions of each character we're TRULY likely to see, because that'd bloat the set a bit much, but hey.
>>93965236Nobody wore tricorn hats in the medieval era and that's the entire purposeful aesthetic to the point they memed it onto a few charactersMany cards purposefully evoke tropes of victorian englandIts not meant to be pegged to a single timeframe
>>93962445https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/it-has-finally-come-to-this-1
>>93965262Izzet with a Hurricane ability that hits each other flying creature.
>>93965286Very possible. I can't pin her down too specifically because I honestly don't know X-Men all that well beyond some basics. It helps that Mark Rosewater's been answering "what colour would X character" be stuff for years and we have quite a few answers for Marvel characters that largely seem to bear out (he's said in the past Black Panther is Selesnya for example).Magneto will be Orzhov, by the way.
>>93965233Mono red works well, I think. Maybe gruul.
>>93965286Flying hate is very much green
>>93965262I'd peg her as GR, she isn't a particularly erudite character.
>>93965280>tropes are good when I like themI hope you can see why I get upset at this.
>>93965306Blue is more of a "heavy association with storms and such", but Ral I would say is more Red than Blue, so that's fair. Personality-wise, she's largely mono-Green, yeah?
>>93965304That's the idea. I also think Thor should have bolt as an activated ability.
>>93965220LolLmao
>>93965319>she's largely mono-Green, yeah?Mostly but she's known to have bouts of rage, particularly when she makes big showings of her powers, which is why I'd slot her into Gruul.
>>93965324Thor's a character I can't honestly put a pin on what they'd make him. There's really strong arguments for... Every colour but Blue, basically, with Red being primary at least.
>>93965326>It even makes GrixisGrixis Tony has to exist somewhere, I'm sure. He's like the most notable "Grixis good guy" in fiction.
I feel the only true Orzhov Marvel character is Loki.
>>93965090I read this as deadeye autist.I've been on this site too long
>>93965345>Loki>no blue
>>93965326on the nose reference is not the same like 1:1 product
>>93965345Magneto is Orzhov as hell.
>>93965351Wasn't this thread just complaining about on the nose references in Duskmourn? People don't agree with you, apparently.
>>93965345Loki is absolutely Grixis.
>>93965284This is the most fucked deck I have seen
>>93965354>Orzhov are the Jews of MTG>And so is Erikkek
>>93965345>chaotic trickster being white/blackHe's definitely red at least, probably blue.
>>93965319Storms can be blue or red, generally. They were traditionally mostly red but have been pigeonholed into RU because of Ral.
>>93965404Yeah, I suppose that leans her more into Gruul then, because ALL OF WEATHER is Red or Green usually.
>>93965419>>93965404Think about it.>Blue represents strong winds>Red represents lightning>Green represents earthquakesShe's Temur.
Found some more brutally potent tech for Skeletons. I love this deck.
>>93965456What's new skelebro?
>>93965280People can't that comprehend fantasy worlds completely separate from our own might develop differently and have things that, irl, were centuries apart or associated with different cultures. There's no reason a fantasy warrior can't be from a setting that has, say, japanese-style swords but roman-style armor; maybe in his world, the country that invented lorica segmentata also invented katanas. Saying that irl Rome and Japan are different countries is irrelevant, because he's from The Kingdom of Unnamedfantasyland, not Rome or Japan, and that's just how their metalsmithing developed. I see Innistrad having coats from one century and hats from another century no differently, there's not really any reason a fantasy setting that has the technology to develop one couldn't also develop the other at the same time.
>>93965461Patience, my boner brother.In the next thread.All I'll say now is that it's NASTY.
>>93964195BRO TENDRILS OF AGONY IS TOO GOOD, STORM IS TOO STRONG FOR—ACK
>>93965452Blue is the weakest part there, but I did initially say Temur earlier. Core Green at any rate, but given she's almost certainly a flier, she's Gruul or Temur.
>>93965544>>93965544>>93965544
>>93965482This, as long as the fantasy universe is kept consistent within its own setting and stays within fantasy tropes, ie avoiding modern technology, modern contrivances and tropes.It would be like an autist getting upset over the number of oars on a trireme on theros because its not consistent with real life boats in ancient greece. Zero fucking reason to matter. But if Heliod pulls out an iphone to take a selfie we have a fucking problem
>>93965482Of course, and you're consistent with this logic across all instances, right? If they added telephones to Innistrad you would have no issues with that? Maybe someone created a magic carpet that lets them avoid hungry werewolves. Or now there's a Quetzalcoatl on the plane, because you understand that fantasy worlds completely separate from our own might develop differently and have things that, irl, were centuries apart or associated with different cultures. Right?
>>93965565Telephones are pretty far beyond their established tech level, and would be severely pushing it. Being able to recognize that a setting able to produce leatherworks might produce two styles of leather clothing that require similar kinds of technology to produce despite those styles not being from the same irl time period or culture is a completely different thing than a pre-industrial society having one piece of electronic technology. Someone able to make a European sword can probably make a Japanese sword, someone able to make a leather hat can probably make a leather coat, etc, but someone able to forge a battleaxe probably can't build a telephone and someone able to brew a potion probably can't make a flashlight.
>>93965188How in the fuck is Cap WUR? The colours actually mean something in Magic, the casting cost shouldn't just be a flag colour meme.
>>93965626So that's a yes on the magic carpets and Quetzalcoatls, then?
>>93965313Because you're either an autistic retard or shill or a useful idiot for WOTC?
>>93965782How in the fuck am I shilling for WotC? My point is that their worldbuilding is shit. The only reason I point to Duskmourn cards is to point out the hypocrisy in how people treat them compared to Innistrad cards. Duskmourn is still shit worldbuilding. Innistrad is also shit worldbuilding. My ire is directed at people who for some reason think one is better than the other.
>>93965869You're are gay
>>93965208Tony was Grixis before he became Iron Man. as Iron Man he is UR or URW depending on the age and story. Having dickish traits doesn't only belong to black.
>>93965888Impossible, I actually have standards, unlike the people who think they're better because they brainlessly consume slop based on the color instead of the taste.
>>93964535I feel like the plane's lore is made by someone who wanted to do a Mtg version of analog horror and backrooms and jammed a bunch of horror tropes together.
