Previous: >>94046582>OFFICIAL Commander website, where you can learn the rules, see the current banlist, and read the format philosophy, laid down by the rules committee:https://mtgcommander.net/>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the internet.http://www.edhrec.com/>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen color identity.http://mtglands.com/>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck strategy and card choices.http://www.tappedout.nethttps://www.archidekt.comhttps://www.moxfield.com>CARD SEARCHhttps://scryfall.com>Proxy a deck or a cube for cheaphttps://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM>how to proxy using any printerhttps://mtgprint.cardtrader.com/Thread Question:>Anon, did you make sure to pick up Desert Bloom? The apparent T1 precon with T4 power according to Gavin? What with:>Perennial Behemoth = Crucible of Worlds>Ramunap Excavator = Crucible of Worlds>Ancient Greenwarden = Crucible of Worlds>Hazezon, Shaper of Sands = Crucible of Worlds for deserts>Dune Chanter = All your lands, everywhere, are deserts
Unban Mana Crypt
In other edh news, I got some mail today.
Hand me the leaked pastebin, it got taken down
>>94050788Thank you based wotc for putting the skill back in low power formats.
>>94050822This meme doesnt work anymore. Pauper is still competitive and high skill.
>>94050804Sorry, t4 card.
>>94050832The meme has nothing to do with pauper
Tier her.
>want to upgrade my lil bros mono red ojer axonil deck because it's just too slowI tried putting some more ETB burn into it, but it really seems to slow the deck down. he had the most success when he was just playing "do something, get burned"-enchantments all day long (old deck had like 15 enchantments), so I'm probably going back on this route for him. I have no idea how to find proper synergies for enchantments in mono red though, besides "play non-creature spell, burn opponent".I would like for the deck to lean more into voltron, but my table loves their sacrifice combos, like flickering/reanimating funny meatball zombie.just having a hard time finding a proper balance to keep the deck threatening for the table. not really high power, everyone loves their interaction.
Post tier 1 tutor
>>94050860Stax is T4
>>94050847Sure does. A limited format isnt less skilled when it's eternal, just like pauper. T1 is low power with a limited cardpool in an eternal format. It just will have a silly banlist; nothing to do with maek new rat. That's on a cars by card basis.
>>94050871Drannith and Thalia were both below that, so unlikely.
>>94050866
honestly cant wait for the full tier list to be revealed its gonna be such a great shitshow
>>94050804Didn't know this card. Thanks for bringing it to my attention friend.
>>94050880Those are hatebears. Close, but not quite. I cant wait for t3 to have decks stronger than t4 because of nonsense bans.
Is this the thread for gay faggots?
[4] Mox Diamond, Grim Monolith[3] Chrome Mox, Mox Opal[2] Talismans, Mox Amber[1] Signets, Worn Powerstone[0] Sol Ring, Arcane Signet
>>94050914If you suck my dick I'll tell you.
>>94050804holy shit what did they do to the coloring on that card, are the scans of the original on scryfall just old as shit and faded?
>>94050909Stax usually wants hatebears, anon. Elesh Norn is just a big hatebear that doubles as a panharmonicon.
>>94050923By price? Sure. By game function? Lolno.
>>94050888When that gets revealed I can't wait for how braindead retarded it fully is if what we gotten is just a sample of that retardation.
>>94050933Eh, I wouldnt call norn a hatebear because she isnt a bear, just hate. But you are right that you'd want norn in a deck with both hatebears and stax.
HUSH LITTLE BABY DON'T SAY A WORDWhat tier is my good girl at?
>>94050968hatebears are t3
You guys done with your memes about tiers? It's getting annoying. Nobody cares about your shitty tier nonsense.
>>94050978this poster is t1
>>94050978>yourThis is the EDH thread
>>94050926Yeah they recolored it. I'll go find mine in a minute.
>>94050985And it's you people who regurgitate the same stale tier jokes so it's your retardation.
>>94050978Go somewhere else if you dont want to be here.
>>94050978Go back to Bracket 1, loser. This is a Bracket 3 only thread.
>>94050812kek
>>94051005I'm sadly stuck with you drooling retards on this planet.
>>94050978In a day or so maybe. Unless WotC acts dumb again and gives us more shit to laugh about. Like crucible of worlds being a 4 and fetches a 1 on the live stream. It will probably take them 3 to 4 weeks to even have anywhere close to a coherent bracket system.
>>94050866There is literally no possible format where Diabolic would be a good card.
anybody got that one mspaint picture of the stick figures shackled to a wall of a prison? I think the context was over-zealous mods stifling discussion, but I think it could be retooled as a parody (emphasis) of the worst-case tier scenario.
>>94051029spellslinger with discounted instant/sorceries
>>94051024Are you stuck here with us, or are we stuck here with you? I'm here because this is my home. I'll never be anywhere else. When this place dies, I'll die too.
>>94051027As if anyone would ever give a fuck about brackets. You sit down with the mates, they at best ask what commander u play and then it's vidya time.
>>94051043I respect the dedication but that's just sad anon
>>94051056I just wanna play Tymna Thrasios
>>94051056Assuming stores don't follow in lockstep with it, then the brackets don't matter. I am not for brackets, as it ruins a lot of my decks that are casual and themed with a handful of cards that would somehow bump them into "4"s apparently. Yet I keep an open mind as I tend to visit lgs for game nights.
>>94051061Why is it sad?
>cough cough... does anybody want to play t1 commander? wheeze>no, sorry anon, all our decks are t4 because we want to play with our valuable cards, that wotc ended up designating as being t4
>>940508603 probably?I imagine a lack of fast mana would curb her a bit and that WotC really doesn't want to put her in "This was a fucking mistake" tier.
>>94050788So is there only foil shit of certain cards from MB2?I'm certain a nonfoil is also expensive, but I'd pay more money to not have pringles.(Honestly I'd really just like WotC to just full stop printing foils at this point, if they never intend to fix their printing process.)
>>94051083Oh fuck stores. When I play with randos nobody gives a fuck about what I'm playing. Just don't bring a winter moon and everyone has fun.
>>94051091Sure anon. I brought just such a deck.
>>94051100>BRACKET 0LMAO DON'T MAKE ME START
>>94051120>winter moonYou mean the tamest, most reasonable, stax card ever printed?
>>94051091you think I didn't bring a t1 deck? I even brought two additional ones for the faggots who always bring their t4 to t1 night
>>94051109Yes, some of them are foil-only.
>>94051086Cause u have nothing but this thread
>>94051100>Points system to Canlander is too complex and competitive for casual commander.FUCK OFF. This is exactly the same argument shit as Banned-As-Commander (BAC). Also no room to talk wotc when you want us to track 4 damn brackets.>>94051120Understandable.
>>94051100>4th bracket will be cards that you rarely see in preconsI'm glad they at least admit that precons aren't actually baseline standard. Now if only they could admit that Sol Ring doesn't belong in tier 1.
>>94051129Hardly relevant my little tard. All that card does is prolong the game by an hour. Same reason you don't bring 20 board wipes or touch lands.
>They'll reverse the bans. My investments are safe. They'll reverse the bans. My cardboard isn't worthless. They'll reverse the bans...
>>94051169you're right anon, no one should try to get anon's 5c shitterpile that ramps out hard with green then plays every single goodstuff card in the game
>>94051153They already said in that that Sol Ring is tier 0
>>94051173Based, we're so back.
>>94051139ugh.... really? kill me.
>>94051180Yeah, I can read. What it really means though is that they're skirting that topic for now because they still know that it and Nana crypt are hot topics.
>>94051201>Nana cryptOh fuck me and typos
>>94051201>>94051208>Nana Crypt
>>94051169Winter moon. You're talking about winter moon, right? Not winter orb, not static orb, not blood moon, not back to basics, not trinisphere, but winter moon? Winter moon prolongs the game for an hour in your meta. I find that incredibly hard to believe.
>>94051194Yeah, I was right fucking pissed that they used the old Tedin art and then locked it behind shitty foiling and a shitty card frame.
>>94051208>Nana Crypt
>>94051100>4-5 different banlists for one format This will be the most confusing shit ever. People will quit EDH because they literally don't understand what's legal anymore and refuse to look it up every time.
Okay well I'm still going to build decks that I find funIf tables ask me to shift up or down in power level ah I mean tiers, well I built low power jank too so that's fineHopefully the change makes all the annoying people quit tho
>>94051224>Hates the future sight frameYou are a maggot
>>94051147I have lots. I can go into it if you'd like, but you're all my anonymous friends and I like ot here. I've been here so long I cant go anywhere else.
This tier system sounds retarded.Like what do I do about my bad decks that use strong cards to make work.I love soul shift but that is a horrible mechanic with old cards and I need to use strong cards to make work
>>94051235they want to kill the "game" part, obviously
>>94051224Its not even necessairly it is a shitty frame its just a frame that means a specific thing about an alternate timeline or the future. And it being old cards, some with reused vanguard art, is jarring with the frame. They really should have gone with the retro border for a bunch of these.
>>94051253banished to t4, chud
>>94051235I can see how this could lead to a lot of dim-witted players being forced to take responsibility for their local meta because Hasbro gives them no choice. Which just leads to more proxies and more homebrew and less reliance on Hasbro.
>>94051100>4th bracket will be cards that you rarely see in preconsThis is stupid, because new cards are generally unknowns in precons. I mean lets leave out some things that would have been obvious with even a little testing, but plenty of Precon-only cards have gone on to go onto be powerhouses.Also kinda implies that if they do accidently-whoopies print a busted card that it'll never see a reprint... except in SLs.
>>94051275>Pic
>>94051253You disclose the old cards or discard them.You'll probably find that people are pretty accommodating as long as you aren't being a faggot. The problem is that a lot is people don't realize when they're being faggots.
>>94051267A soulshift deck in T4 sounds hilarious
>>94051275>gets printed in ur precon
>>94051237I think most people won't care what you're playing unless you bring a full on tier 5 cEDH deck
>Haven't updated Jaxis in awhile>Check for new red creature etbs>mfwDamn it feels good. I was losing hope after Karlov Manor and OTJ had nothing for this deck.
>>94051293An admitted design mistake btw
>>94051275>I mean lets leave out some things that would have been obvious with even a little testing, but plenty of Precon-only cards have gone on to go onto be powerhouses.This. I honestly think Dockside is a great example of this. WotC has had some really shitty playtesting in the past few years, but I don't even with high quality testing they would have pegged Dockside as the bannable threat it became.How on earth can they tie pre-cons to brackets when some of the most powerful tools in EDH/cEDH has come FROM oversights in precons.
>>94051275Brackets as-is only really exist for 'staple' cards, or obvious signposts of the tiers. Armageddon is tier 4 because it's just unfun to play against for most.
>>94051148The tier system isn't going to be any better. There's like 35 cards in Canadian Highlander that even have a point assignment, and yet the expect people to keep up with what amounts to four layers of banlists which will need to include hundreds of cards?I hope they're right that the average player can't handle a points system because that means tiers are also going to get ignored just as hard.
>>94051287You misunderstand soulshift is an old mechanic made of shitty old cards.It's a deck stapled together with strong cards so that they aren't more than over costed vanillas
>>94051243Planar Chaos frames were a thousand times better than the Future Sight vomit.
>>94051221I'm talking about ALL of them. At the table where some dudeplays his pauper, another his vehicle mecha deck and I my voltron.. you believe anyone has a chance of dealing with a shrouded moon? No. And nobody runs tutors either so we sit there not untapping half our lands, slow playing for an extra hour.
>>94051319>Armageddon is tier 4 because it's just unfun to play against for most.Wonder if WotC is just going to crib from the Canlander point system anyway.0 points are Bracket 1. 1-2 pts are Brack 2, 3-4 are Brack 3, and 4+ are Brack 4.
>>94051333planar chaos so good
>>94051334Goddamn anon. Sounds like you play in a meta that could lose to a stiff breeze. Pray your group never breaks up, you will be unable to play with other plays, even if they're using unedited precons.
>>94051244Don't be shy. Try new places
>>94051331You're right, I said the wrong thing. The point is that you still know where you should probably be honest and frank about your decks composition.
>All these poor souls who don't realize that EDH as it was is legitimately dead.
>>94051349What I described is what happens online, with mates at tables and with randos at conventions.It's a fucking casual game u sweatlord. Everyone is having fun playing UNO and you try to make a competition out of it.
>>94051348that creamy yellow is so smooth, I love it
>>94051355the format died the exact second wotc starting printing cards for it
>>94051353What tier is something like birthing pod and phyrexian reclamation?And yes I do tell people what my deck is
>>94051253My idea would be kind of simplifying the point system by just having>a list of outright banned cards>a list of cards you can have up to 3 of (from the whole list)>a list of cards you can have up to 6 of>the rest are unlimited cardsThat way you could let people use SOME broken cards like JewlO or SolRing but only 3 total in the whole deck (unlike now when you're encouraged to cram as many broken cards as you can in)Then you'd do the same for general "designed for commander" overpowered crap and limit that to 6 cards similarly
>>94051383I want them to stop printing fast mana and overly pushed shit and print more cards that play with the politics and 4 person concept
>>94051394>>a list of cards you can have up to 3 of (from the whole list)>>a list of cards you can have up to 6 ofThe problem is how do you verify that without deck-checking?
>>94051355Magic is dead long live EDH...EDH is dead long live commander ...Commander is dead long live... Whatever is coming next.
>>94051287>>94051353You can't expect a format to function based on players negotiating individual consent between each other like they're trying to have sex. Especially since you can't realistically change the contents of your deck on the fly, people don't bring other cards than their deck with them.A deck should be either legal or illegal and there should be no confusion which it is
>>94051404Well at touries and other events that actually have an outcomes that matters they do in fact deck check pre-games. At your LGS? pretty much gentleman's word. They'll check someone's deck afterwards if they think something is fishy.
>>94051390>What tier is something like birthing pod and phyrexian reclamation?Probably 2 or 3 if I were to guess.
>>94051381Why are you mad at me? Seems to me, based on exactly what you said, that you're mad about something that never happened. Because if it did happen, you sure as shit wouldnt complain about winter moon.
>>94051435Winter Moon is a [4] card sweaty
>>94051382i really wish we had another PC set
>>94051404If it's a casual game you don't verify it, you simply trust the other players to not be faggots since nothing is at stake.If it's a tournament you deckcheck everybody.
>>94051435So you aren't a sweatlord, huh? Sure thing.
>>94051400>print more cards that play with the politics and 4 person conceptI'm with you for that.
>>94051394>>a list of cards you can have up to 3 of (from the whole list)I do like this, but I think the only way it becomes manageable is you only have a single restricted card."Here is my deck, my commander is Falco, my restricted card is Mana Crypt.Easy in a sentence.
>>94051394The thing is that by implementing a tier system, WotC has already made a very rudimentary point system>each card has a point value equal to its tier>any card that starts in your command zone counts for doubleIt's really basic, but comparing the average across all cards in the deck gives you a better idea than just gauging based on the highest tier card.This probably only works for more established playgroups anyway though who you can actually trust to have tallied up their deck properly, or who could agree to build towards a specific 'point value'.
>>94051400you will likely get both
>>94051441>The rings of the wood in the description boxSo good
>>94051450Again, why are you mad at me? If you were going to be mad at me, you'd understand how silly your story is, because you'd understand how bad winter moon is. It's unplayable anon. >>94051439Sorry, let me play socially acceptable land hate.
SNITCHES GOT STICHES
>>94051431>You can't expect a format to function based on players negotiating individual consent between each other like they're trying to have sex.>A deck should be either legal or illegal and there should be no confusion which it isIt's a game that's meant to be a fun social interaction.Being an experienced player should make it easier for you to communicate even without brackets what you think is and isn't fun and disclose candidly what skill deck actually operates at. Not harder.
>>94051468You just snitched on yourself cedh tard.
>>94051464Any system that assigns a point value to every card is not gonna work due to the extremely high number of cards and extremely high gap between the worst and the best. It's just too much autistic work and too hard to check.
Tier lists are going to utterly jankify precons even more than they currently are
>>94051460If you only allow a single 'dangerous' card the whole idea becomes meaningless since in 99% of cases that one card will be Sol Ring.
>>94051487Them saying that t4 is stuff you'd rarely see in a precon means they have no intention of improving precons.
>>94051482Except every card already has a point value. The point value is the tier it's in. There are ways you could adjust it to further emphasize the gulf between Tier 1 and Tier 4 cards, depending on how crude of a solution you want.It's more work to check, but it's also more robust than an entire deck being tier 4 based on the inclusion of a single card.
>>94051481Sure thing anon, whatever you say. If your game takes an extra hour after wintermoon resolves, you're in no place to evaluate anything.
>>>94051431>You can't expect a format to function based on players negotiating individual consent between each other lEh. No. Because everything WotC was willing to print is already on Tier 1, and new cards will not be playtested for power or weakness. So it really is just going to stay they same.What their doing is putting up a sign ahead of time that says "We are not reprinting good cards ever."Between the Storm Storm and the Tier Brackets it effectively leaves secret lairs as the only place their willing to print powerful cards. Which is exactly where they want it.Also remember WotC's set-in-stone 2 year plan. So the next two years of Pre-cons was already set in stone even before this whole debacle even started.
>>94051480Look, it's not about communication. This isn't dating. Communication should not be necessary at all. Players need to know, before entering the store, that their deck will be legal to play with. It can't be a "maybe".
>>94051498Well. Even if they implement the restricted list idea tomorrow no questions asked, i don't think Sol Ring will ever land on that list.That's just some players wishful thinking. So it's really the next card after Sol ring you should be considering.
AIEEEEE NO MARO DON'T PUT MY PRECIOUS ARMAGEDDON IN TIER 4 I NEED IT TO KEEP THE OP GREEN DECKS IN- ACK!
>>94051510Nigga it's a casual game.
>>94051508>it's also more robust than an entire deck being tier 4 based on the inclusion of a single card.But that wasn't my suggestion at all?
>>94051342I can see them providing some more nuance/average weighting to the bracket system, but they've pretty handily shut down a points system as being just a BIT too much of a complexity hurdle for the average casual player.
>>94051538>Players need to know, before entering the store, that their deck will be legal to play withRule 0 has always permitted illegal cards on the terms that you disclose them.
I'M CIA
>>94051548>i don't think Sol Ring will ever land on that list.But it should. Sol Ring is currently the most powerful card that's legal in in Commander. It absolutely needs to be in the restricted cards list, however that's implemented.
>>94051562A proper point system is also more robust than your suggestion of a 3-of tier and a 6-of tier, which also still shares the problem where the cards that are on each of those lists would vary wildly in quality.
>>94051561Yes. Or rather it was. Like I said, cherish your playgroup and be happy you found like-minded people to share your time with.
>>94051568Rule 0 has never worked and never will work.
>>94051603>Being an experienced player should make it easier for you to communicateSounds like a skill issue. lol
>>94051565A points system is something that a playgroup could houserule easily using tiers as a guideline at least. That seems like the only remote silver lining to any of this, and that's still likely to get screwed up by WotC's retarded tiering choices.
>>94051595A proper point system is 100 times more work.
>>94051600It is, not was.
>>94051330It is such a moronic statement whoever of the three said that on the livestream. What is so hard about>You have a budget of 10 points>Each card has a point value>Pick some cards whose collective value equals 10 points.?As if edh adopted this, they could just cards they don't like seeing on the point list so it forces people to choose what they want while deckbuilding. Thoracle being a pain in the ass? Give it a point value. Same with dockside, nadu, mana crypt, and jeweled lotus.
>>94051607Refer to my earlier comment about communication and why it shouldn't be necessary (EDH isn't dating).
>>94051631Half of commander is literally politicking and negotiation.God forbid you do some of that before the game.
>>94051631And yet, for the entire history of the format, it has been.
>>94051593>free costTier 4, buddy. Take to the cEDH tables.
>>94051623>he doesnt knowSh-should I tell him? Or should I let him enjoy it just a little longer?
>>94051610No. It's closer to 11x more work, because rather than having to know which 9 cards in your deck are in the limited/semi-limited category, you need to know which tier all 100 cards of your deck are. Though any basic lands obviously simplify that process. And as I said, this system works better for established playgroups who are hoping to gauge power level, since either system isn't ideal for random pickup games where you'd need to go through someone's deck anyway to check how many cards they have that are on XYZ list.
>>94051600Why do larping staxfags always pretend like this shit is a common sight?
>>94051609>A points system is something that a playgroup could houserule easilyNo it the fuck isn't. Any house rule that's complex enough that you have to write it down isn't easy. Only house rule that's easy is "no you don't get to fucking play with X". And a good format shouldn't rely on houserules anyway since houserules start arguments.
>>94051662>No. It's closer to 11x more work, because rather than having to know which 9 cards in your deck are in the limited/semi-limited category, you need to know which tier all 100 cards of your deck are.You also need to do the point math, which the 3/6 model doesn't require.
>>94051663I think you misread the chain. See:>>94051381In fact I said it never happens:>>94051435
>>94051670There is likely to be less math involved in calculating the points of your deck than there will be in actually playing a game of commander and tracking life totals, commander damage, tokens, and counters.
>>94051647I will repeat myself.Commander is casual
>>94051300That and some commanders should just be recognized as being innately stronger so you should gauge a table accordingly.Like I have been guilty of accidentally pubstomping when people said "upgraded precons" and what they meant was they fixed the mana base and curve but that's all.And similarly I have been btfo turn 5 by an "upgraded precon" that was Stella Lee.As long as people have different commanders to switch to I don't think people will care about tiers
Sorry, this is a low-4 table, and that's a high-4 deck. Could you take it elsewhere?
>>94051710*was
Thirty (30) starting life is objectively superior to fourty (40)
>>94051213Genuinely why isint this legal?
>>94051728Reading comprehension, anon
>>94051710Who are you telling? Seems like you're justifying it to yourself more than anyone.
>>94051548>>94051594They explicitly gave Sol Ring as an exception, it is functionally 'Tier 0' because it's the format mascot, it is literally too ubiquitous to ban.
>>94051734partner with itself isn't a real ability
>>94051741The one I'm replying to
>>94051100Amazing how we went from the best thing in the format ( the bans) to the worst thing in the format (wotc takeover) in a matter of days
>>94050860Tier 1
>>94051750He knows the truth, I know the truth. Seems like you're the only one who doesnt know it yet.
>>94051173
>>94051784The truth that commander is casual
>>94051734The mechanics are just weird enough that they have trouble justifying it with extended rules or flavor.It just means they didn't see a good enough reason to properly play test it.
>>94050926>>94050992Yeah, wow. That's really dramatic. I don't like the zoom either, but that frame is so sweet. Pity about the set symbol.
>>94051737yes, you do need reading comprehension if you have read wotcs words over the last few days and think commander will continue to be a casual format, thank you for having the self awareness to notice that. that is what you meant, right? obviously?
I ordered a land pimp today for my orzhov deck. I need to know what tier he goes in. Can a judge please rule on this for me? I don't want to sit at the wrong table.
>>94051803Not a fan of the zoom but I have to admit it looks better
>>94051791Bless your heart anon. I'm glad you believe that.
>>94051100What can be done to combat this? Can we make our own rc?
>>94051822That's [3]Remember your Scroll Rack, which is fortunately also [3]
>>94051821Company who? Will they send me cease and desists if I ignore their rules? No?Hm.. it's as if nobody can control how people play a game.Commander is casual
>>94051803The set symbol is awful. Border is nice though.
>>94051745But it could be.
Fuck Brackets and Tiers! Here is my idea:>each card has a power level of 0-10>a deck’s power level is 0-1000>ideally someone makes a program that would connect combos and makes the cards power levels jump>example: on its own, Thoracle is a 4 in terms of level>but if the deck has consultation, Thoracle gets bumped to a 8>each tutor added to the deck makes Thoracle one point higher with a ceiling of 10>basic lands are 0>someone comes to your pod with a power level 856>you guys are playing 900’s >we can assume he’ll be able to play comfortably>ideally as well most precons would be made with the goal of hitting about 4-500
>>94051822I'd put land tax at least 2 if not 3.3 lands is a huge bonus mid to late that gets easier to cast the more opponents you have. Not even green has that kind of value.
>>94051745They literally had to go "partners with mothers yazaki" and it's legal
>>94051744Card access is clearly going to be a factor and clearly they aren't just going to reprint paypiggy chase cards like crypt. We're getting the cedh banlist "everyone" wanted but weenies still won't be happy
>>94051838is every format i play at my house casual? no, commander was casual because LGSs ran it as such, which will no longer be the case with this bracket system becoming official, thus it will no longer be casual
>>94051845>each card has a power level of 0-10Okay, anon, rank all 30,000 cards' power levels.
>>94051784What is the context of this pic. Who is that?
>>94051845Way too goddamned complicated!
>>94051837>>94051846What tier is my deck it's going in? https://www.moxfield.com/decks/MtG4Ko6FSE6pfgTQq4Mngg
>>94051845Yeah, if someone could wave a magic wand and create a computer program that could accurately and objectively rate the power level of a deck based on the combination of cards in the deck, that'd be ideal.Get on it anon.
>>94051857Bracket who? Will I get fines when I sit down with randos and just play? No?Hm..
>>94051859It would be a community task. Votes on power level for the more intricate cards. A shit ton of cards would just get 1s and 2s due to them being power crept out over the decades. >another example: Dockside>normal power level is about 7>decks runs recursion or blink it gets a 10
>>94051862>Demonic TutorInstant [4]. Sorry bro.
>>94051866Honestly it wouldn't be that hard to program. The difficulty comes in the data management. I don't even know how many cards there are, but each would have to be "accurately rated" and then with a full list of combos that possibly adjust the rating.
>>94051838Wow. You're serious. Do you want me to explain it to you?
>>94051877Police will shoot you.
>>94051886Stop posting this picture faggot
>>94051845Anon niggas haven't even been trusted to understand banned as a commander and you want to drop this on them?
>>94051886Oh nooo.. I will get shot? >>94051891 please officer, don't shoot me for playing vidya.
>>94051884What if I play it at a tier 3 table anyway?
>>94051885Yeah, it's so easy.All you have to do is accurately rate every card, and then check every card interacting with every other card and accurately rate how much that interaction increases the rating of each of those cards.It's all so simple that it makes you wonder why nobody has had the idea to do this before.
Can we split this general into different brackets? I don't want to play with Bracket 1 weenies or Bracket 4 try hards.
>>94051877sit down where? at the LGS, which is beholden to wotc to run their store in compliance with wotc policy and rules? where else are you sitting down with randos?
>>94051911Rule [0]
>>94051877
>>94051913does the mtg general have separate generals for each format?
>>94051916Chat groups where I text anons and meet to play. My mates. Conventions. The small board game stores where I know a guy via friends.And ofc online. Cockatrice.
>>94051734Here ya go anon, cake. If you want different art, just post it.
>>94051912You're being facetious and it's clear you've never programmed anything before. Like I said the programming part is easy, this is a data management problem. To someone not in the space they look like the same thing, but they're not
>>94051862I updooted your deck nigger. Get an Academy Rector and some stax pieces. Crackdown is good.
>>94051894No.>>94051904Pretending to be retarded wont save you from reality.
>>94051936Then get to it anon. I'm not stopping you. It's easy. Go do it.
>>94051941>dies to gunshot for playing commander
>>94051931>>94051213me after I get with Norika and Heiko
Why did commander players kill their format by being unhinged psychos?
>>94051944I'm not going to do it because there's no money in it
>>94051930i could literally say all of those things about any format, and it would not make any of them casual formats. edh was casual because it was casual in LGSs, and if you think LGSs will keep running it that way and not be required to bend the knee to whatever jankass shit wotc conjures up for these brackets, you are the one in need of reading comprehension skills
>>94051973All it requires is that people invent Mexican Highlander which is just Commander while ignoring the tier bullshit. It costs nothing to invent a format.
>>94051966
>>94051966I think it's funny. All the people who contributed to this mess have never played a format managed by wotc. I have, I know exactly what to expect, but a lot of people are going to be very unhappy for the mess they made.
>>94051966because they're real men, not afraid to take back what was stolen from them
>>94051966>children's trading cards>crypt is a $200 cardShouldn't have made it so rarely reprinted, if the wotc staff actually care about their community they'd have put these cards in precons or sets to pull at a reasonable enough rate
>>94051835>Can we make our own rc?Yes. No one can own a format. I'm already working on a replacement and all cards printed specifically for commander are on the banlist. PreDH is interesting conceptually but losing access to *everything* printed post-CMD is too extreme and too niche to capture a lot of players. The goal is to combat wotc actively, not bitterly hold a faltering nostalgic line while they assault us with the same business models that killed 60 card constructed formats. This is the only way I see forward to stave off the wotc rot that will continue to infect us. Allowing any commandercentric product is what got us into this mess and rejecting it is the only thing that can get us out.
>>94051981You mean casuals sent death threats to olivia, right? Why would investors harass the only person who disagreed with the ban?
>>94051838>it's as if nobody can control how people play a game.You're right anon, anyway I cast winter moon and pass my turn
>>94051979>It costs nothing to invent a format.it costs nothing for me to do your mom too
>>94052002AAAAAIEEEE NO! YOU MUSTN'T! IT WILL EXTEND THE GAME AN HOUR!
>>94051938Thank you for the updoot. Added Crackdown to cart.
>>94052002me, playing a mono-colour deck
>>94051973In our world things are judged by majority. The majority plays shitty precons and very social. The minority plays it competitive.It's like the old saying.. not every muslim is a terrorist but every muslim is a terrorist.Commander is casual
I tap gilded lotus for 5 and cast eluge!
>>94052002Aaand you get to go home. Unless you wanna get into a fight with 3 dudes.:)
>>94052024bro thats a t3 card wtf?
>>94051843>>94051852But how does it work legally?"Partner" and especially "Partner With" are already complicated mechanics.Do they share commander damage? Are they tracked separately? How does "commanderness" apply to one or both Mother Yamazaki's?How many rules do you need to clarify to make this work? If it's enough and infrequent enough that it fills the entire rule box with reminder text just to work, it's probably not worth it.
>>94052035I cast chromatic orrery
>>94052002>He gets to untaplol children's play
>>94052019No anon. In our world things are judged objectively with logic and reason between experts in their field. That's why all casual is dead; competitive is all wotc understands how to do.
>>94051979and who is gonna do that? who is gonna present the new and universally agreeable commander replacement? do you cater to the people who agree with crypt and want sol ring gone too? do you cater to their direct opponents who like sol ring and crypt? do you cater to the middle of the road by keeping crypt banned but allowing sol ring, pissing off both sides? what about stax, mld, thoracle? how will you stop people from splintering into other commander replacements that make different choices than you did, and creating problems when community X plays mexican commander but community Y plays spanish commander?>>94052019*was, *was, *wasthese things were true and will no longer be true after wotc is done
>>94051966Nether of these parties are at fault, wotc is at fault for not reprinting Mana Crypt into the dirt years earlier when it became a popular staple. Nobody would care if a five dollar rock got the axe. JLo and Dockside both mistakes that should have been gone a month or two after they were printed, same way Nadu went out.
I uhh...*looks at 40 card hand in a stupor for 5 minutes*Hmm...I will cast...*flicks my hand and starts putting my cards into piles*Interesting...*looks through each pile for another 5 minutes*I play an island, pass.
>>94052053>after wotc is done>wotc has done nothing>was was was
Greetings, I am the autist that made the gork and mork commanders a while back (I took some advice and added black and white to color identity to add zurgo), now I'm wondering if I'm bending the color identity with this one or straight up breaking it. Thoughts?
>>94052050Is that why muricans have more school shootings than days in a year and let niggers cuck them yet want more guns and niggers?Fascinating
>finally bought a commander deck>format shits itself and implodes within a month
>>94052029>Aaand you get to go home. Unless you wanna get into a fight with 3 dudes.:)I've seen the the physique of people playing braindead tier casual, I'll take my chances on that
>>94052066Personally, I'd be happy with just one. Not the other.
>>94052065Red shouldn't be able to destroy any permanent change to land/creature/artifact
>>94052029>i-if you play a mean card I'll kick your asslove how even in your fantasy you can't beat one guy by yourself, you need 2 more people to think you could win the fight
>>94052071Always remember, The second worst time to get into Magic is right now.The worst time is ever at all.
>>94052073Ah yes.. the dude who thinks he can take on 3. Feeling a lil superman cause you stand up from your chair 5times a day?
What tier is starting an IRL fight?
>>94052084He can't stand up under his own power so the alternative is inconceivable
>>94052082At first I had it as artifact but that felt too weak for a legendary sorcery. Maybe lands would be more thematic and flavorful.
>>94052065What >>94052082 said. The red one should be the overrun, but only power and trample, and the G one should destroy noncreature permanents. Did you end up doing devotion to orcs?
>>94052084You sound like a nigger. Nobody wants to beat up anyone but if you don't leave the home we own its either calling the cops or a leadpipe to the head.Your choice
>>94052093>Feeling a lil superman cause you stand up from your chair 5times a day?You may be shocked to learn, but outside of casual players most humans wouldn't consider that remarkable in the first place.
>>940520944
>>94052066I'm not american, and I wont talk about politics because this isnt the board for that, and you arent nuanced enough to provide anything meaningful to the conversation.All that being said, you saw the will of the people. They wanted crypt and jlo. They wanted the rc dead. And they currently want wotc to manage the format, with all that entails.
>>94052094[1] because they're brainlets
>>94052103Yes I did both devotion to and affinity for orcs, so they have a few lines of text but it's more flavor. And yeah I intentionally switched the colors since orks themselves can't distinguish between gork and mork and sometimes fight about it. So it's flavor on a meta level but I was afraid of it breaking color identity too much.
>>94052093>i-I'm gonna *wheeze* kick your ass>thinking im intimidated by 3 fatties who can't walk up a flight of stairs thinking they can beat someone upYour posts reek of nofights
>>94052043Partners are generally tracked separately for their damage as they are separate cards. Unless a ruling were to happen otherwise, I think Mothers Yamazaki would track separate>How many rules do you need to make this workOne for the commander damage tracking, unironically.The playtest version was done in what I can only describe as a "techbro" way in which its trying to invent something that already exists. Which is why when I made my version >>94051931 I just relentless rat rules. As its a known problem, by default, that Brothers Yamazaki can't be played together because of the singleton limit.
>>94052118Oh nice. That sounds awesome. You should post the updated cards when you get the chance some time.
>>94052106why would you be playing against a winter moon player in your home? do you just invite random people off the sidewalk in to play?
>>94052106>Nobody wants to beat up anyoneI do, but I'm a barely restrained italian full of preworkout and a lifetime of fist fights with my brother who has no stake in this argument.
Any good autoinclude recommendations for my Aragorn and Arwen, Wed and Black Bred bbc gooner themed deck?
>>94052053>how will you stop people from splintering into other commander replacements that make different choices than you did, and creating problems when community X plays mexican commander but community Y plays spanish commander?Why would that be a problem? Any given store or community or playgroup will settle on a preference. If you don't want to play against someone's deck based on the cards that are in it, you don't play with them. Saying Mexican Highlander just lets you settle it between yourselves rather than worrying about any external authority. That's it. The freedom is yours if you can keep it.
>>94052141so we agree then, that hypothetical mexican commander is a casual format, but actual commander won't continue to be?
>>94052127>Unless a ruling were to happen otherwise, I think Mothers Yamazaki would track separateBut that's where people would disagree.If both ended up back in your deck for instance just because you chose not to put them in the Commander zone, how would you keep track of which is which?
>>94051381Translated: no I've never experienced this but the internet tells me that's what's what!
>>94052152>how would you keep track of which is which?draw on the back of the card inside the sleeve
>>94052151Sure. I don't really care. Nothing functionally changes, unless you were particularly attached to the Commander branding rather than caring about playing EDH
>>94052163I'm glad you've got a solution but where are you going to include that so it's either clearly explained or intuitive, let alone properly play tested so that it creates precedence?
could i interest anyone in a few rounds of somalian highlander?
>>94052128Thanks man, I also made 4 more cards, some not as flashy as others. If people show enough interest I may make an album and post as I keep making them.
>>94052171the card in question is a non-legal card to begin with so you should use a non-dipshit solution to fix it, it's pretty clear if you show them the "ONE" or "TWO" on the back of the card
>>94051100>profit driven actions>"Keeping the community happy is our way to make money."Start putting out NSFW artwork on cards again then, bring back boobies and chest windows and make Set Boosters the standard set product. Make Collectors Boosters more worth it for collectors, 1 Mythic every Collector Pack and a Rare Land from the set cycle too.MAKE THE GAME AFFORDABLE SO PEOPLE WILL WANT TO BUY INTO IT
>>94052177Sure, mana crypt is allowed yeah?
Over status?
>>94052183only if it was printed by chinese slave hands
>>94052179"It's non legal" defeats the whole question of why it's not legal to begin with, you silly sausage.
>>94052171>where are you going to include that so it's either clearly explained or intuitivethe WOTC set notes published on wizards' website on set release>let alone properly play tested so that it creates precedenceWOTC doesn't even do this so why should I
>>94052178Those are great. I love the hybrid activations, really clean design. The statics are good too. I'd be down for that.
>>94052191I think that's a different guy>>94052192this is the correct answer
>>94052187ids
>>94052152Easy answer would be the cards set number. So if you have two Mothers Yamazaki in the deck, one could have>107awhile the other has>107bSuch as with picture related. I have designed cards in the past at wotc. Mothers Yamazaki (playtest) was just laziness on their part.
>>94052187Never been more
Tomboy tribal. How do I build it?
>>94051027>Crucible is tier 4Lmao this tier list shit is already a disaster.
>>94052192>the WOTC set notes published on wizards' website on set releaseYeah I've seen what those notes look like, no thanks. Make more cards with partners with and/or flesh it out more.
>>94052212use Najeela instead
>>94052029Has never fought.>>94052073May or may not have fought.>>94052093Definitely hasnt fought.>>94052106Probably has brandished a weapon, likely has fought but not recently.>>94052119Ehhhh, closer to hasnt fought than has fought, but a coin toss.>>94052137Routinely beaten by his parents as a child. Highly likely to start a fight in a grocery store or a parking lot over something relatively minor.>t. Ex security guard
>>94052178>4cbetter off as gruul
>>94052205>I think that's a different guyOkay, what, am I supposed to mark his back with a number 2 to tell the difference?
>>94052222no he's actually a [4] sorry, it's the new bracket rules after all
>there are more highlander variants than atoms in the universewhoa...
>>94052110>you saw the will of the peopleby what fucking metric?
>>94052215Feels like they pulled cards out of a hat and then used a dartboard to decide where they went.
>>94052209You could but what if you don't?Are you not allowed to play 107a with another 107a?
>>94052065Actually the way these are worded I can sacrifice nothing and have x be any value I want
>>94052215I think the idea Crucible is only busted when combined with other busted stuff (like Fetchlands) but something like a Tutor is generically powerful no matter what deck it is in.
Jeweled Lotus and Crypt are still not getting unbanned under WotC.I hope "investors" are happy with themselves. As a player with a consistent group with our own banlist, we're sitting comfy and there's nothing RC or WotC can do to ruin our fun.
>>94052235It would be part of comprehensive rules as a footnote that likely says>To play Mothers Yamazaki in a singleton format, such as commander, both 107a and 107b must be used for clarification.
>>94050978That guy is cute and I wanna fuck him
>>94050788>People right now watching the value of their cardboard EFT's plummet to absolute zeroMaybe now we can stop seeing this shit as an investment.Honestly, I hope they ban even more fast-mana except for rituals and finally address treasure spam.
>>94052178Why 4 color? Should have just kept it jund or gruul
What tier we ranking this little goober at?
>>94052202https://catbox.moe/c/fet49qHere's what I got so far, if you see any wording that's just blatantly wrong please let me know. The last time I made cards was about 2 years ago and that was tk satiate my monkey autism. I had no one to proof read that one so it has a few mistakes that made it to print lol
>>94052258UbersOUUUNU
>>94052151You're really high on your own shit tonight anon
>>94052241If you sacrifice nothing it doesn't matter what you declare X as, x is equal to whatever you sacrifice.
>>94052230The fact that it's what's happening and literally no one is fighting back.
>>94052119I'm white, anon.
>>94052262Yeah, Swords to Plowshares is just such a never-used card that hardly anyone plays.
>>94052251>>To play Mothers Yamazaki in a singleton format, such as commander, both 107a and 107b must be used for clarification.Okay. Good.Now here's your final question that all of this will ultimately lead to. How are you going to use this as precedence for:>Your deck may have any number of cards named [Commander X]Because you know and I know that this is the inevitable outcome and [AA-BZ] is completely unreasonable.
>>94051043I believe this completely. I hope you enjoy your time here, man.
>>94052135Sometimes people bring other people they met.
>>94052212She's a combo deck, and pretty resilient at that. The combo is outrider en-kor and task force, both of which can be tutored to the field by her ability. You can use outriders ability on task force to get TF to 1,000,000+ toughness. Then cast pic related/sac your own creature to Entrapment Maneuver or use things like Miren moaning well or Worthy cause to gain that in life, if you want to get more value from that you can use Nyktos Paragon to put that many +1/+1 counters on all your creatures/ aetherflux/ Bill the pony. The rest of the deck is light white stax and untappers, along with general white card draw/catch up ramp.
>>94052256I'd say 3. Too many combos.
>>94052282I think that tier-list just shows the 'average' considerations at the power level. At T1 you focus primarily on your removal and creatures. Just putting threats on the field and whatnot. Basic, "turn things to the right" Timmy mindset.Tier two is where you start considering "How do I find the things I like more" with "how do I cast them more consistently"Tier three is "I need to find things consistently" with "how do I stop people from playing too consistently?"Tier four is "I legitimately don't want other people to play" and "I need to find the things that prevent other people from playing."Or at least that's what I'm seeing.
>>94052255There's a bunch of good orcs in white and black. There are actually more white orcs than green orcs, but Orks are obviously Grull in 40k.
>>94052311Also to note the tier system is meant as a starting off point. The best thing to do is to talk it over with your table, being able to say "My deck is a 3 except for vamp tutor" or "my deck is pretty hard 4 but I can swap to a 3 if you want" is the idea.And of course at the most extreme you can just sort tables at command fests and lgs's and stuff by the numbers and then let people rule 0 talk within the number groups if they want to.
>>94052262people should start assigning different human subspecies to commander tiers
>>94052288I understand and it would only make sense as a 1 and done deal. If what purposed happened, it would be a change in rules for the precedent. And it would be some of the FIRE design to ever happen. Mostly because part of the partner rules is the tutoring effect for the partner. Example is Isamaru. But imagine if relentless rats had partner, because partner put on nonlegendary creatures. Meaning they are self-sufficient.
>>94051441I love those. Need to build a deck with them, but no idea which commander.
>>94052345(whoops left in mothers yamazaki typing, oh well, should be dog.)But yeah, partner should never be paired with the relentless rat rules.
>>94052324>There are actually more white orcs than green orcsI hate this game
>my deck is a 2 except for Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Ad Nauseum, Consultation, Tainted Pact, Thoracle, Force of Will, Force of Negation, Wheel of Fortune, Underworld Breach, JewLo, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Mox Diamond, Mox Opal, Mox Amber, Crome Mox and Lions Eye Diamond....>I swear it's a 2....
>orcs should be green because their skin is green
>>94052345>it would only make sense as a 1 and done deal.You're missing the point that this completely defeats the purpose of making it a Commander in the first place. If I just wanted a deck of nothing but relentless rats, I don't need a Commander to do that. I could just run Ashcoat.The point I'm making is that for this mechanic to be fun or interesting for any sort of precedence, it is either completely pointless or it's a redefinition of partnering and damage application. Either way, I maintain there's a good reason it never left test besides just being lazy, being that it raises too many questions about how fun or difficult it is to actually understand or execute that needs more investigation than just a one off.
>>94052311Yeah, they even addressed that it's not strictly a 'power level' thing. Armageddon is a strong card, but it's not remotely the best card you can play in EDH, it's just VERY unfun. Meanwhile, highly efficient instant speed tutors are tools used mostly to make games end faster, and that IS more of a power level one.
>>94052378They way orcs are depicted in most media aligns with the philosophy of green mana. And they are green.
>>94052378yesthey are literally mushrooms>hurr durr they shouldn't be green because they don't act like typical mushroomshttps://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Afungus&unique=cards&as=grid&order=namego on, kill yourself retard
>>9405237840k's Orcs are somewhere between Gruul and Naya on average. Definitively not Blue, but some could be Black.
>>94052378This but unironically, I want to larp 40k with da boyz
>>94052311Yeah, that's where it feels like it fucks up. Fetches add a ton of consistency, and yet are apparently Tier 1.More importantly, the cards that add consistency should be in the same tier as cards that counter consistency. If Fabricate is tier 2, I'd expect something like Aven Mindcensor to also be tier 2, because that's just a reasonable restriction. Same with if there are a bunch of options for free spells in tier 2 but Drannith Magistrate is Tier 3 for some weird reason. Because these sorts of hatebear effects are necessary in the same way removal is. You're stopping someone from doing something so that they don't win the game on the spot. Those are the types of cards that prevent easy searches for consistent combos.
>>94052383This sounds terrible
>>94052378I say this
>>94052378Explain to me why orcs are white
>Turn 1 sol ring>Turn 2 Mothers Yamazaki>Turn 3 other Mothers Yamazaki, both swing, 8/21 commander damage.
>>94052390That's only in warhammer.
>>94052378Because they value strength above all else and their foolproof strategy is to sprint as fast as they can towards the enemy. Very Red, very Green, somewhat Black, but WotC game design requires us to add White as well.
>>94052209Alternately, could there just be a line saying that they share commander damage, so it doesn't have to necessarily be tracked between the cards?
>>94052412Well if you want to consult the 40k stuff, there is literally The WAAAGH>The WAAAGH! is the name given by the Orks themselves to the massive military campaigns they periodically unleash on the galaxy as part of their eternal desire to seek out combat and war. The term also applies to the key concept of Ork "kultur" around which the entire Greenskin society, if it can be called that, revolves. >An Ork WAAAGH! is war on an apocalyptic scale. Orks beyond counting swarm from one world to the next. Whole civilisations are exterminated and defenders' armies laid to waste as the Orks plough ever onward in an unstoppable tide.>Orks need battle just as humans need food and drink. Due to their warlike nature, they constantly fight amongst themselves, or launch piratical raids upon nearby enemies. Such conflicts tend to be small-scale or localised. They never really develop beyond random outbursts of violence and looting.>However, Ork populations can reach a critical mass that leads to a full-scale planetary migration. This is known as a WAAAGH!, a crusade of pure aggression that crashes through star systems in an orgy of violence.This sounds pretty boros to me.
>>94052378orcs are like treefolk bro
>>94052421and now think very hard were those orcs come from
>>94052428Yeah they could be tracked together.
>>94052426Greenskins would live in the plains. They don't like trees or water
>>94052381>>94052345Or, perhaps to be more succinct, it would made more sense to have Mother Yamazaki partner with Father/Aunt/whatever Yamazaki, even if their text boxes are virtually the same
>>94052450Who cares. It's just an artwork swap. If it was warcraft orks green would be the worst choice for them.
>>94052432Sounds more in line with the Rakdos or Gruul guild.
>>94052355I was looking at brewing the non-blue 4c lady with them to help push damage but wasnt too sure whod be good at the helm
>>94052459would be simpler version yep.
>>94052432I swear we had all of these exact posts like a couple days ago.
>>94052464Yeah, Warcraft orcs are probably... I mean, they're sort of just every colour, really, they don't slot neatly into any particular grouping.
>>94052464>If it was warcraft orksbut they are warhammer orcs retard
>>94052486That's also why I believe that in terms of flavor, it's mechanically meant to subvert Commander damage rules as being from a single source despite being two cards, and that's the reason it never left test.Because it's intent is more obtuse than what the rules conventionally allow.I'm speculating with that, but it's what I genuinely think WotC was experimenting with.
drawsunscorched desert targeting (You)pass
>>94052355does anyone has experience with oreo? he fun?
>>94052416Doesn't the wording actually make them both 6/6? They both give all samurais +2/+2. But also commander damage is a quality attached more to the card than being your commander(s) so you'd still only have 6 commander damage, just on each of them
Now I want a warcraft set.Horde, alliance, the scourge and a dragon precon.I want Thrall, Varian, Arthas and Alexstrasza as commanders with swaps for Grommash, Uther, Sylvanas and Deathwing.Please cucks of the coast, I'll buy all your precons
>>94052515Yeah, your commander(s) are always meant to be tracked separately. Weird shit, too, because if your commander's ever turned face-down, you still have to indicate it's your commander.
>everything is awful in life>pretty much near suicidal>commander is the last thing I enjoy>WOTC kills commander now and I have to disassemble or make all my decks unplayable if I want to keep playing against non-CEDH
>>94052508t4 play, how dare you
>>94052518Unlikely considering the Warcraft card game is a major competitor to MTG. Marvel gets a pass because Marvel Snap, while big, isn't one of the MAJOR MAJOR things for Marvel. Hearthstone IS a major thing for Warcraft as an IP.
>>94051568Rule 0 and illegal cards is much easier to discuss than a tier system.Imagine arguing why your deck with a tier 4 card is tier 2 every time you play
So there isn't any reason to not play cEDH now, right? If I use powerful cards at all I am auto-cEDH, and many weaker themes and commanders need them. If I use any such cards it's the same as if all my cards were tier 4. So, how does this not incentivize me to, instead of just adding a vampiric tutor to my deck, instead adding tons and tons of high power shit.This just encourages you to arms race.
>>94052508What tier will it be?
>>94052503Also, the wording would make them very strong. Both mothers would buff each other and themselves, each is a 6/6 with haste and vigilance.
>>94052524Not really.. I mean fighting games are all competitors yet they constantly bring each others characters and make cross overs like sf x tekken. Microsoft only has to allow it. Hearthstone gets a magic dlc and magic a warcraft set.
>>94052520>Your decks are all unplayable without MLD or Vampiric TutorWhat deck are you running?
>>94051916LGS are not beholden to wotc at all lmao.
>>94052532illegal in every bracket
>>94052536>The only tier 4 cards are MLD and vampiric tutor, not even demonicReally? Damn that's a load off.By the way bro adding vampiric tutor to a generic vanilla black commander with 98 lands doesn't make a good deck.
>it doesnt matter how strong your deck is if you use a high tier commanderHoly shit this just dawned on me. Tons of people build jank decks with strong commanders; in fact most players build jank decks regardless of commander. If commanders are sorted into tiers, it's going to be a bloodbath when wotc prints a spicy new commander, new player build it, and immediately get their shit pushed in because they dont have a full set of fast mana. This leads to one of two things: almost every commander is untiered, which will destroy lower tiers or; wotc will intentionally underestimate new things and procrastinate moving them up a tier to sell packs. Am I insane?
>>94052529>Imagine arguing why your deck with a tier 4 card is tier 2 every time you playI don't think that's hard to discuss at all. If I'm telling the truth that it's my only tier 4 card, then they're either cool with it or they aren't.
>>94052545That's also really easy to swap out without disassembling the whole deck.
>>94051822land tax a 1 without scroll rack as even with scroll rack in mono white it's still not that scary.
>>94052553No thanks. I'll just not play numander.
>>94052546Not really. It's a very clear and obvious flaw with the system, but it's also paired with the fact that better mana pools are also something that reasonably should be divided across tiers but probably won't be. Because WotC has every incentive for new players to get their shit pushed in for not being a good paypig and buying a full landbase and all the staples to match the tier.
>>94052520Anon, my advice? Find a new hobby. Get a cute pet, read a nice book, take up cooking. Things will get better, but not here.
>>94052546Never played voltron before? Just make sure the commander is cheap and auddenly even dogmeat tears u a new one.
>>94052561>find a new hobbyHobbies are extremely expensive and not really a thing low income people can do. If you told that nigga to get into warhammer he's looking at the same price as a new gaming PC. Not all apartments allow pets. Book reading is a meme. Cooking is great if you don't mind spending large sums for small amounts of food.
Retvrn to Amonkhet when?
No, I don't think I will be playing with your brackets and there's nothing you can do about it
>>94052568Return to your cellar, fatso
>>94052568Nice try Gay Bolas.
>>94052574I never left it.
>>94052551>I don't think that's hard to discuss at all.Most people don't want to. They just want to play. Adding all this shit adds barriers. It's objectively bad for the format.And in the end mana crypt and dockside and lotus are going to remain banned
>>94052577Show your madmax copy again
>>94052553Makes more sense to just add more power cards since you are punished the same for 1 power card as you are for 100.
>>94052546Counterpoint:>No don't worry it's not one of THOSE decks>It is exactly one of those decks
>>94052583>It makes more sense to replace 99 cards than 1So many shitties outing themselves as EDHrec drones today.
>No more fun decks with silly themes or low tier commandersIt was fun. Guess I'll just build atraxa, Teysa, and yuriko.
>>94052562No. Dont be silly.>>94052559It's way worse than that. WotC makes no money on the rl, which means they have no interest in keeping it around. If abur duals and monoliths are getting in the way of casuals playing Urza 17, The Fuckener, they're going to get axed completely. Or they're going to get powercrept, like you said. High tier commanders are either never ever being printed again unless by accident, then obviously broken commanders will be slowly creeped up instead of automatically moved all at once, which will utterly destroy each tier one at a time. Jesus christ.
>>94052596I'm not silly. I'm autistic
>>94052568Amonkhet is practically a dead plane. Where do you even go from there?>the Great Civil War of the remaining dozen survivors over the last piece of stale bread>the Great Stampede as someone discovers an omenpath and everyone scrambles to get the fuck off the plane
>>94052567Go for a nice walk. Take up fishing. Grow a plant. Books are absolutely not a meme and often dirt cheap. Cooking is relative to your budget. Every apartment allows fish. Stop making excuses and improve your life. I care about you, dont do stupid shit and definitely dont dwell here if you cant deal with awful news.
>>94052596They'll just stick all the RL cards into tier 4, but also let a bunch of annoying stuff off the banlist.Then they'll print things aimed at tier 2 so that players with precons have to upgrade, and then if it's stronger than expected they get to continue to milk it by shifting it up to tier 3, and if it's still too strong it goes to tier 4. It's like a multi-stage delayed banning, which is terrible for the actual health of the game, but great for selling packs.
are they tiering the commanders themselves or just the 99 cards?
>>94052592>Teysabased
>>94052612>They'll just stick all the RL cards into tier 4That's retarded so it's likely what they'll do since this entire bracket thing is being done as lazily as possible.
>>94052586But it's not. It rarely is. My deck might be a 10k abomination, but a lot of people build something like 4cmc atraxa or, god forbid, Xenagos at a relative budget. If they get plopped into mox diamond and tabernacle tier, they're going to get utterly fucked without a rubber.
>>94052624doesn't matter. Make your deck cEDH or disassemble it. This is commander now.Hope you didn't spend that much lmao
>>94052605I'm pretty sure they imply that after the events of WAR that Amonkhet started rebuilding from the ashes. Just flash forward a couple decades or since shit and you've got yourself a Neon Amonkhet or something.
>>94052520Don't worry things are gonna get much much worse.
>>94052628It'll suck for everyone, which is a relief. Misery loves company.
>>94051879OK let's get started.>Lighting Bolt: 2>Brainstorm: 3>Siege Rhino: 2>Tidings: 3>Aetherling: 4Thoughts?
Just have a fucking AI do the rankings. It will be more accurate than people.
>>94052626You're missing the point autismo. >>94052612Exactly what I said. The delayed, staged bannings will be 10,000 times worse than anything the rc could have done. Especially considering how strong relatively innocuous things like najeela or sissay seem before they're workshopped. Maybe the teired 99 will save us by gatekeeping easy combos and I'm fear mongering, but I dont have a ton of confidence.
I plan to just make a deck with 98 lands and a vampiric tutor and rolling up to tier 4 tables. I'm told cEDH players hate when you go to their tables and play non-cEDH decks
>>94050788if my t4 has a t3 stapled on it, does that make it a t5?
>>94052656If anything in your deck is tier 4 then all cards in your deck are tier 4
>>94052651cEDH players hate playing non-cEDH decks that take advantage of them playing cEDH
>>94052651I mean, do what you want. But the only one being trolled is you because there are now 4 tiers of cedh, and going to the strongest one like that just wastes your time.
>>94052672>I won't care that you turned my competitive game into a 3 man podCool. Then you won't mind and have no reason to try arguing otherwise unless you personally care for my well being. Which we know you do not.
>>94052667Like what?
You WILL use bracketsYou WILL play edhrec top 100You WILL play cEDH or precons and nothing elseAND YOU WILL LIKE IT
What are some of the better Precons I could buy at the moment and upgrade into something viable for cEDH?
>>94052624WotC literally explained this in both the stream and their announcement post. If you have a few cards outside the tier of the rest of your deck, you are free to rule 0 it after explaining why they don't elevate your deck. You know, that thing the RC said people constantly do all the time to stop every table from being Blue Farm. The point is that the tiering system forms a more detailed baseline that's quite frankly more useful than "uhh well I didn't see the card so it's not causing any problems".
Okay but hot take: draw power is more important than having tutors because if you draw enough you don't need your searchers to win
>>94052675But I of course I care about your well being? It's no fun beating opponent that doesnt squirm and try their hardest.
>>94052681any precon+a single card from tier 4 is a cEDH upgrade
>>94052681Hawk Tuah
They should make 10 tiers and skip assigning cards to them.
>>94052685A tutor effectively reads "draw 80" when there's one specific card you need. Draw is unironically just a healthier version of the same idea since it places more focus on the rest of your cards doing something before you hit the wincon.
>>94052684>WotC literally explained this in both the stream and their announcement postnta anon but Now you're seeing part of the issue. Not everyone is going to watch 10 am on a work day streams or read articles on some niche site. Many many people will not be aware how this works and it will cause confusion, ass hurt, and lots of problems. You added an encylopedia of rules basically.Half the people I play with barely know shit about the game and absolutely are not reading WOTC articles or taking a day off work to watch a stream
>>94052684But rule zero isnt real and was never real. Oh my god they called our bluff. No one is going to go "sure we'll let your t4 commander in our t2 group."
>>94052127Does the commander count as being in "the deck" as far as the rules engine goes?
>>94052707I think it's funny you guys think it'll work this way. The format is sanctioned and you're going to start seeing events and EDH nights that officially use brackets and aren't going to allow for a "rule 0" discussion. You can now rule 0 in casual commander about as well as in modern. No judge is going to let your tier 4 deck in tier 1 just because it's jank.
>>94052700I don't agree which is again the problem with these brackets. Who the fuck are you to decide tutors are good in all decks and pods?Instead of before where we decided, now wotc decides and there is no room for negotiation.
>>94052714That's what I said anon. Are you okay? It's getting late.
>>94052701>You added an encylopedia of rules basically.Yet some anons want a point system.That aside if your group isn't involved it really wouldn't be very hard for you to convince them one standout card is contextually not an issue. The point is that all those "signpost" cards the RC flagged are now actually grouped correctly (ideally) so it's not a game of finding cards that are functionally identical to a banned card in every way (if not better), and running it because the RC was too lazy to ban it.
>>94052718No you didn't say that. You presented it in the same way as rule 0 where the option is up to the table. It is not up to the table. It's up to the TO and bracket you registered in. all four of you agreeing means as much as the two players who got DQ'd from a tournament after agreeing to let the other look at the top of their deck.
Where does Ad Naus get tiered at because its a dog shit card in a higher cmc deck? What about Isochron Scepter when it's not paired with Dramatic Reversal?
>>94052720A point system is even more retarded. We did not need any change at all. Nothing was needed and none of this is being done for game health at all.The only way to keep playing commander is to ignore these changes. Which is what I am doing.
>>94052647>Maybe the teired 99 will save us by gatekeeping easy combos Not sufficiently. Because the obvious answer would be to leave a few of the tame hatebears at lower tiers to help keep combos in check, and really clamp down on tutors and mana consistency, but they're not doing that. Even if they make an effort to do so, they're going to be playing wack-a-mole with combos until they get everything out of tier 1. And even once they do, they're still going to constantly be underestimating precon commanders on purpose to slowly creep and rotate the format anyway.
>>94052717They are literally saying this is meant to be a baseline not a hard rule because they know if they try enforcing hard rules the game will fucking implode when Commander is their only lifeline.As stupid as WotC is I don't think they're THAT stupid (although they're always capable of proving me wrong).They already do this shit in D&D where they make a dogshit system that doesn't work and tell you to fix it yourself instead of play it as-written.
>>94052721Oh sweet jesus now we're going to have to deal with angle shooting colluding faggots talking to the TO and the judge to specifically allow their tier hopping bullshit so they can shark prizes.
>want to go to commander night>decide not to because I'm not wealthy enough to carry various decks for what is essentially now 4 different formatscool cool.
>>94052734Coordinating with randoms, very fun.
>>94052734
>>94052742>proxies in an officially sanctioned formathahahaha your printer is going the way of all non-cEDH decks. The fucking bin.
>>94052742Sorry, wotc sanctioned format now
>>94052720A point system makes more sense since if I'm gonna have to keep track of a spreadsheet of every card in the game for legality, it might as well be thorough rather than a one-drop rule. But really, there's no point to any of it when 90% people are never going to pay attention to either tiers or points.
>>94052749points are awful if it means I would possibly have to alter any of my decks because it is now "illegal" due to points. Tier system doesn't result in any decks ACTUALLY being made illegal.
>>94052734don't worry anon now every LGS will tell you which bracket their night is, so that you don't have to bring 4 decks! this is a perfect system with no flaws, aside from the teeny tiny detail that now the store has to actually enforce whatever bracket they pick because their options just became>don't declare a bracket, people stay home because they don't have a deck for each bracket>declare a bracket, people come but now they expect the bracket to be enforcedenjoy!
>>94052722Combo pieces that are mainly played as combo pieces will probably be valued pretty high. Isochron scepter is pretty good even aside from dramatic reversal.
>>94052749You really underestimate how much time it takes to rework an existing deck under a point system.
>>94052745we getting out the proxy hood to the counterfeit burbs with this one
>>94052734To me it sounds like you just don't have a favorite deck yet that you're willing to adjust in order to have fun with friends and strangers I think you should take a step back and review some new commander deck ideas to ensure that your deck is the style of play you want it to be, and worry about deck tiers laterIt's a lot easier to find a haystack instead of a needle
>>94052770Cool post but didn't read.
>>94052776yeah I'm sure you're used to doing that
>how dare you be bothered by sudden unneeded changes that could invalidate your decks worth thousands of dollarsYeah unsurprisingly some people aren't happy. Which should be understandable considering this whole thing happened because some investors lost 200 bucks.
>>94052755>"illegal" due to pointsWhy would that be the case? You just compare the points of your deck to anyone else's and that gives you an estimate of power.It's even less strict than tiers.
>>94052782So if one person doesn't have a deck close to points they are just shit out of luck?You want to know what the objectively best way to do things is? The way we did shit up until today. NO ONE can give me a good reason we need to change shit or why it is better this way. Not a fucking person.
>>94052761I guess my point is its impossible to account for every variation of a combo piece now and for every card set in the future. Hell, cards that aren't combo pieces now may become combo pieces in the future and then you have to retier everything around that.
>>94052788Maybe don't do a fucking point/bracket system then when it's theoretically impossible to do.
>>94052781You mean because casuals made up stories to get a card banned after a decade of whining, and then rubbed it in as hard as possible, right?
>>94052734you retards still aren't proxying?
>>94052782>New cards come out>Change various decks>Repeat a few times>No idea how many points each deck is worthGreat idea broCaptcha agrees.
>>94052795I am no longer proxying since it will 100% be an issue now and you're retarded if you think otherwise>inb4 HUR I JUST PLAY WITH MY FRIENDS AT HOMEGood for you.
>>94052787>So if one person doesn't have a deck close to points they are just shit out of luck?As shit out of luck if they are if their deck has a enough cards of the wrong tier that they can't replace. >You want to know what the objectively best way to do things is? The way we did shit up until today. Agreed. I think points make more sense than tiers, but neither is necessary at all.
So basically I’m just gonna not take it (the deck!!)I know….. UGH I know…. I’m sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It’s just that I’m not gonna tier it is allHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAAHAAHA
>>94052803NOWE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE ITWE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE ITANYMOOOOOOORE
>>94052796>take damage>gain some life>repeat a few times>have no idea what my life total is atHate it when that happens
>>94052803>Not tiering your deck? I see. JUDGE!
>>94052803>be me>dino tribal player>etali primal storm is t3, rest of deck is t2>take out etali, slide in something else>life moves on
>>94052745>>94052747
>>94052812Judge please tell this guy to fuck off since this is a 3 man pod and frogboy is a guest in the pod.
>>94052811I have dice for that. What kind of noneuclidian dice tracks deck points across time?
>>94052818>NONONONO MY PROXIES WILL BE FINEDenial stage>>94052812>judge>LGS commander nightshahahahahaha look at this fuckin magicfest faggot
>>94052821Not sure. We haven't invented technology capable of recording a series of numbers aside from colorful multi-sided rocks with numbers.
>playing edh in tts where every card is a proxyfeels comfy man
>>94052787I think a tier system could potentially work pretty well. You have one high tier for cEDH where practically anything goes, one low tier for precons and one or two between those that wanna do stuff but don't wanna deal with fast mana or some combos for example. New players can then mainly play with lower tier decks while older players have guidelines to build decks for those new players without having to estimate whether this or that card is still appropriate. It basically streamlines pregame talk by actually giving players a tool for building decks for a certain powerlevel, so not everyone has a 7.
I swear to god a Dimir deck can draw 3 cards a turn and no one in the pod will bat an eye but if I gain 5 life as Selesnya I'm "getting out of control"
>>94052845>taking extra turns is worse than draw 3no shit
>>94052811bro those cardboard life wheels are like... $2You can even buy one of these for like $5 to further customize your experience playing the game
Guys my friends don't want to play with me anymore, how do I reset my IP irl? :(
>Tier 1 will be the most popular format>The obviously good EDH cards will be Tier 2+>Tier 1 will make bulk cards that were only printed once cost $100
>>94052821thanks for the mcguffin idea for my next p&p session
>>94052839In theory, tiers could work pretty well. But WotC has already bungled it based on their existing examples.
>>94052860turn yourself off for 1-4 weeks
>>94052861but brackets are such a good idea anon.
>>94052781>that could invalidate your decks worth thousands of dollars>Thousands of dollarsAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.JUST MAKE A NEW DECK NIGGA, WE KNOW YOU CAN AFFORD IT. FUCKING LOSER
>>94052861I still laugh and remember when that one craw anon was like "Why isn't Earthshaker Giant more expensive it's just like Craterhoof Behemoth!"
>>94052861>>Tier 1 will make bulk cards that were only printed once cost $100An investment opportunity, you say?
thugshaker giant
>>94052885yup. Buy low anon
>>94052881>Earthshaker Giant is a tier 1 CraterhoofBuying 100 copies right now. Better pick up yours now before the price spikes.
>>94052904printer go brrr
>>94052904Choose your fighter
>>94052933im partial to end-raze. vigilance is the best if you're not going to straight up win like hoof or ibex
>>94052933>End-Raze ForerunnersUnironically been using that as my budget Craterhoof for years. Rumbleweed looks like the best option of the lot tho because of the discounting.
>>94052943Rumbleweed is alright as a budget option but it takes a some work before it beats some of the others on rate.
>>94051100>sol ring is fine>arcane signet is a design mistake and should never have been printed?????
>>94052982i missed that lol. typo????
>>94052982>1 mana for 2 generic is fine>2 mana for 1 of any color isn'tUh yes? You don't notice it in monocolor but any 2+color deck is bailed out by the cheap manafixing arcane signet offers because you don't need to pay anything unlike the guild signets
M-MARO FORGIVE ME AAAAA STOP IT STOP IT I WILL PLAY ACCORDING TO THE TIER AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>94051100not a fan of this new format. Can we just play commander instead?
>>94052181>Start putting out NSFW artwork on cards again then, bring back boobies and chest windowThis doesn't actually sell shit even if you wish it did.
>>94053007Correctdrawing furry content does though, so bring back Ajani and draw him wearing barely anything more often, WOTC
>>94052998More Duskmourn than the real DSK lol
Make a whole set specifically for anime.
>>94053028NEO.
>>94053019Which is why all the best selling franchises are furry
>>94053042>>94053019Bloomburrow will get multiple sequel sets because of this
>>94051916They won't do shit because my several hundred a month is more valuable to them. Sucks for those who don't spend money at LGS'
>>94052982Arcane Signet is an undercosted Commander's Sphere.
>>94053063commander's sphere is a bad card
>>94053067And Arcane Signet is an admitted design mistake
>>94053075Probably because it wasn't designed for the format.
>didn't pull the trigger on cards for new deck due to the massive nuclear bomb of the format fundamentally changing in every way>now the cards went up 30+ dollarsMY INVESTMENT POSSIBILITIES
>>94053084>Zur went from a 2 dollar card to 15+Fucking who even plays standard
Investors are a cancer
>>94053100The entire reason we now need to use brackets and change our decks and are having honestly the largest sudden change to any format because of investors
>>94053045>your "several hundred" a month>beating out the value of keeping wpn certificationis he serious?
>>94053114Why would they lose WPN certification? You guys are fucking clowns who legit think WOTC goes to tens of thousands of shops to investigate them and have fucking pinkertons watching peoples fucking cards. How would you even prove they did anything wrong, anon? Taking illegal camera footage on the premises? Your word vs theirs? Will there be a court case?This is as retarded as thinking dereliction of jury duty is a prosecuted crime.
Rooms are a confusing mechanic ngl senpai
>>94053141>>94053141>>94053141
>>94053121>https://wpn.wizards.com/en/news/guide-reporting-and-avoiding-wpn-policy-violations:)
>>94053128It's just an enchantment you pay for twice for different effects broNO different from level up cards
>>94051309>It's a design mistake because people refuse to not play mana rocks in every single deckThere is a reason that shit is only playable in EDH, Anon. 40 starting life was the design mistake here.
>>94052696Worth buying just for those thighs.
>>94052535Blizzard wouldn't play nice, let's be real.
