Are vampires inherently evil in your campaigns?
>>94352439Depends on what the rules of the game I'm running say.
>non-topic ai thread
>>94352439All undead are
>are murderers evil?Yes.
>>94352439You first, please. Be detailed and specific.
>>94352559in role playing games
>>94352439Vampires have never shown up in a campaign I’ve run and don’t even exist in my homebrew setting yet. I can see several routes to the first vampire(s) coming into existence, and my players know that’s a Sword of Damocles hanging over them. Most of those possibilities would have vampires as inherently evil, and the majority of them would result in physically monstrous vampires. Think manananggal.
>>94352528What if the vampire doesn’t have to kill to survive? In Vampire: the Masquerade, for example, a vampire only needs about a pint of blood from a human per night. That’s not enough blood loss to even warrant a trip to the hospital for a healthy adult, nevermind put them at medical risk. VtM vampire bites also aren’t contagious so there’s no risk of the human turning into a vampire or ghoul or anything.
>>94352593>In Vampire: the Masquerade, for example, a vampire only needs about a pint of blood from a human per nighGay. What's the point of putting a murderous monster into your game and then not having it be a monster or murderous
>>94352439Yes. All undead are evil, and represent magnifications or perversions of the human condition strong enough to resist death. In my setting death is part of normal mortal existence and defying mortality (i.e. returning from death, not merely prolonging life via medicine or hygiene, etc.) is never a good thing.Vampires specifically tend to originate with lust or love gone wrong. Partners who resist death to return to their loved one (draining them of their lives in turn), degenerate rapists, monomaniacal stalkers, etc. The fact their condition is transmissible makes them very dangerous, and can be thought of as a poison that kills all of their victim EXCEPT those similar negative feelings.Mavis is cute though.
>>94352439Gee, OP, I dunno. Maybe some inspiration would come if you informed the board how they are in YOUR campaigns.You DO run campaigns, right? Or games in general?
>>94352619It ties in to the Humanity mechanic - vampires are by nature murderous monsters, but refraining from murderous, monstrous behavior allows them to cling to the person they used to be, and retain their sanity. Indulging in that behavior (by drinking people dry, for example) instead feeds their new inhuman instincts, and drives them closer to madness and identity death. However, that's just for Camarilla and most Anarch vampires, Sabbat vampires gleefully devour anyone they can get their hands on.
>>94352439Yes. Next question
>>94352439Yes. But dhampires aren't. Just like half-orcs.
>>94352439>Are parasites that treat human like cattle and sold their souls for the privilege to do so evil? It's okay, champ. Someone has to be on the left side of the bell curve.
they are, without fail, brats.
>>94352960What if they don't treat humans like cattle and didn't sell their soul, just got unfortunately bitten?
>>94352593Kiss is still allegory to rape. This is why you have "vegans" who only drink from animals, trying to cling to their remaining humanity. Almost all vampires in VTM are evil, some are just worse.
Are catgirls inherently cute and cuddly in your campaigns?
>>94352439They were, but then they got shitstomped so hard they worship the sun as the great destroyer along with the werewolves who swapped sides to try and ursurp the moon god.They're generally considered allies of most solar worshippers now. Werewolf paladins are pretty jacked as temple honor guard now and the vamps have transitioned into being the really old guy advising nobles about accounting for the most part or doing wizard shit. The werewolves have integrated pretty well but vamps still get the odd peasant uprising to stake and sun their shit when they get uppity about the blood donations.
>>94353040No, they're vicious, dirty, and mean. If you marry them, though, they'll slowly become more gentle, clean, and sweet-tempered. But they will put on a lot of weight.
>>94353081>But they will put on a lot of weight.oh no!?
>>94353111Anon you have to take your cat on walks, its not good for it to stay sitting around all day.
>>94353141okay
>>94352439I prefer to make them a tragic metaphor for the proliferation of drug use. The OG vamps are all rotten to the core, but the ones they turn are twisted into a cruel mockery of the people they used to be by their new dependencies. If you knew what they were going through, you'd want to help them, but there is no helping them, and they either maintain themselves by feeding or starve themselves to prevent others from suffering their fate, and the party doesn't run into the latter.
>old /tg/: Ah, a chance to talk about vampires and possibly be silly or productive regardless of OP's wishes >nu-/tg/: System? Game? Nogames!
>>94352439Yes except for one small branch whose sire simps so hard for the goddess of light that he managed to get immunity so long as they constantly serve her. Even some of them are evil but in the “I’m doing this because it gets me political power” kind of way
>>94353245>old /tg/: You don't even need other boards.>nu-/tg/: Quests belong on /qst/. Right-wing politics belong on /pol/. The badwrong kind of racism belongs on /b/. Ponies belong on /mlp/. Settings settings settings, worldbuilding worldbuilding, narrative, plot. Mechanics are a slog, go play a video game! I'm entitled to the research and playtesting results of others just because I made a thread copypasted from the archives or whose content was generated by a bot!
>>94353245Mocking OP for being a pissy little bitch is a timeless /tg/ tradition. Also the nogames moniker is obviously accurate.
>>94352439Lawful Evil, yeah. Only truly care about them and their own, though they're not stupid enough to be wantonly EVIL evil. They take care of the people of their manor/estate, protecting them and assuring they're cared for and fed, safe and the like, so that they can feed off of them as necessary, and the people in return allow themselves to be fed off of and keep up the illusion that the vampire is just some eccentric or eclectic rich weirdo who keep themselves secluded. They'll tell others shit like having seen the owner of the manor out and about strolling the streets mid-day, or crossing a river/creek to pull a child's drowning puppy from the water, or how they attended the Midsummer festival where they certainly ate herring and pork with a silver fork and no glove. The vampires are also loathe to renege on an agreed upon deal, though it's never guaranteed as they're all still very temperamental. Less likely to flip the table because they got fucked over or out-gambited or the like, but if you rub their nose in it then all bets are off. Really they feel more Noble Evil than Lawful Evil.
>>94353487>Mocking OP for being a pissy little bitch is a timeless /tg/ tradition. Also the nogames moniker is obviously accurate.Nothing you posted is correct.
>>94353630Everything I posted is correct, though I'm sure OP and his ilk would rather gaslight everyone on the board than even try improving themselves.
>>94352439Yes but also sexy goth ladies with big pale tits
>>94352439NoTheir sexy goths
Yes. In my setting becoming a vampire irrevocably changes your alignment to evil. The most sympathetic a vampire could be is "tragic." They MUST feed on sapient creatures like humans, no cheating by drinking cow's blood or something.
>>94352439At best, you can simply be tragic because the condition is one any Human can experience where they have to consume blood, particularly the Heart.The other way directly has you consuming the person's soul (which, in my worlds, is the sum of your memories and emotions and experiences). If the victim survives they are nothing but a mindless, vacant, shell that will usually expire shortly afterwards while the consumer experiences a high no drug could ever match. As a consequence, you are burning the candle on both ends and now and you have to keep doing it least you suffer in ways unimagable as you die.
>>94352439It's kind of a crapshoot. When a vampire is created, its nature, including how it feeds, is randomized. It may need only a token amount of blood, it may be able to drink through a host's pores, or it may need to rip someone's throat open and eat some of the flesh along with the blood to survive. A vampire isn't inherently evil, but if they need to kill someone to survive, then the act of survival is evil for them. And because of how unpredictable the results of creating a vampire is, that act is evil as well
>>94352439Yes. The transformation doesn't turn them evil, but the lifestyle and the need to hurt others just to survive corrupts really hard. Genuinely good people turned into vampires either go mad, try to kill their sire and get killed, or step into a roof to see the sunrise for one last time.
I'm starting to think these threads are AI scrapers for ideas, which are then used to make even more shitposts on here.
>>94352439Are you including half vampires or Dhampirs?
>>94353028Killing yourself is a valid choice in such circumstances.
>>94352439By their very nature, the Vampire is a predator. It kills and eats things with blood. The fact that it prefers sentient creatures over things like cows for some reason means that yes they are "Inherently Evil" from the perspective of Mortals. Since sentient mortals are the only ones that matter in RPGs, they get the evil alignment.Now if Vampires started to, oh i dont know, FARM ANIMALS THAT ARENT SENTIENT LIKE THE REST OF US MORTAL RACES DO INSTEAD OF GOING FOR THE VASTLY HARD PREYS LIKE HUMANS AND OTHER SENTIENT BEINGS, then no they would not be inherently evil.Also also, thank fuck that the 15 mins per post thing is gone now. Fucking election BS ruining everything around here.
>>94352439No. It's a better curse if they choose to become evil. "Chomp you're evil now" has no real tragedy to it. They need to go down that path on their own, with a little push.
>>94356919Best I can do is farm humans covertly via corporate office work.
No, and as proven by this thread most people who think vampires should always be evil are D&Done consumers who have brain rot and can only repeat mechanically what their holy cow tells them to do. Vampires can be an extremely nuanced fantasy race.
Yes, but that doesn't mean their goals might not align with my player's goals.
>>94352750This is /tg/; calling out someone for not playing games is the pot calling the kettle black.
>>94357251Yes, we know you are old and you played Vampire.
>>94357251Vampires being a race is just as much of a retarded DnDism, if not moreso, as whatever bullshit you are complaining about.Vampires are monsters. Monsters are not a race, they exist outside of the natural order.
>>94352439Inherently, no. Typically, yes.They *can* subsist on beast blood. But the blood of creatures with magic power is much more satisfying, gives them a high, and has other benefits. And you don't typically see magic power in unintelligent beasts. /Magic/ beasts, maybe. Fey and dragons, definitely. Same with powered up humanoids.
>>94352818Non-humanist dark ages roads were the best morality in Vampire. All that angst-wank in modern era VtM was cringy whiny self loathing glorification. Road of Kings.
>>94353072Sick. +1.
>>94352439Yes. They post self-righteous drivel on social media all night while spreading damaging slanderous gossip without doing any fact-checking to verify if it's actually true.
>>94352439not inherently, but thirsting for the blood of living people is not exactly a path to good things.also the first vampire was absolutely extremely evil, bitch could have decided not to make vampirism a thing but did it anyway.
>>94360184All your vampires come from a single guy? Is this VtM?> How else would you get VampiresNecromancy.
Yes, they're parasitic creatures that look like a human but absolutely aren't. Everything they do, no matter how well intentioned, hurts people around them. Whether it's "just a pint of blood in an alleyway" or raising an army of the undead, that are always monstrous.
>>94352439Depends on the game, in Cyberpunk they're mainly cringe larpers. If we're talking about a more fantasy setting where Vampirism is a actual curse from a evil god then absolutely. It depends on the specifics of the setting, but if your vampires are very powerful it pays to have a inbuilt rejection/fate element to prevent inbred vampire hillbillies from being a problem. Something like they try to turn someone, but if they're not evil they just die.
>>94358732Um Monsters in Monster Hunter are almost all(but not entirely) parts of the natural order and yet it's called monster hunter checkmate atheist.Monster means big scary thing.
>>94352439Reminder that if you aren't using vampires as psycho rapists you are doing it wrong
>>94358732A 'monster' is a funny word, it follows that "in the eye of the beholder" principle.
>>94352523Why?Non evil undead have always been common in fiction, and even several versions of dee 'n dee have non evil undead.
>>94353040Fucking ugly.
>>94358732Funny, because D&Done interpretation is precisely that Vampires are "le mOnSters". You can't play Vampires in D&Done in any edition since it was created, not even in different settings. Is just pathetic moralfaggism and blind loyalty to their shit trademarked soulless races. Vampires as races ARE cooler that vampires as monsters. Any one who thinks otherwise just has product brainrot.
>>94360879>You can't play Vampires in D&Done in any edition since it was created, not even in different settings.
>>94360919That excerpt is from the Grim Harvest accessory book from Ravenloft, where a apocalyptic events literally turns a bunch of people forcefully into undead, not just vampires. And the whole thing is a fake simulacrum, the whole point of that book is to turn everyone who was an undead back to normal. I.e. not real vampires, not real undead, not real playable races. In reality pic-related was always the official position of D&Done, a moralistic and dumb stance that you can't play vampires. Have a good day.
>>94352439>Inherently Not really. They're evil from what they choose to feed on, rather than their innate requirement to feed. While you can feed on animals like cows (which, due to the size of the animal, is mostly fine), they taste like shit. Humans, on the other hand, taste great, but you basically need to drink them dry to get what you need.Liches are debatably more evil, though that's because they need to gather the equivalent of a Sentient Mortal Soul every 100 years (IE: killing upwards of thousands of lesser creatures), instead of vaugely weakening a creature every 3 days.
>>94361237>No, not like that!
No. Vampires are immortal people with superpowers, though, which licenses them to act with general impunity, so plenty of them will immediately choose to descend into evil, but there is no explicit requirement.
>>94361719I accept your concession.
>>94361904
>>94352439Yes. They are defined by their selfishness. If you aren't selfish enough you don't have the "willpower" (the story vampires tell themselves) to keep yourself from going feral when you turn. Really what's happening is if you aren't selfish enough, your soul leaves your body and the curse takes over and puppets you on base instincts like hunger and reproduction, which for a vampire is one and the same, because that's all that's left when your soul leaves.They can, however, be redeemed after the fact. Everyone can be saved if they want to be. But most vampires don't want to be.
Yes, that is ultimately why vamparism is a curse. it affects ones mind. your alignment. However, I do keep it possible to change your alignment back eventually. it doesnt remove your memory so one could realize their thoughts have changed and struggle against it.
>>94360686Why?Evil undead have always been common in fiction, and even several versions of dee 'n dee have evil undead.
>>94354945they are?
>>94352480That's not AI.
>>94365347>That's not AI.Doesn't matter, anon would have found something else to complain about.
>>94352439not inherently, but like other anons have stated, it's difficult as fuck to maintain a positive moral alignment. Some just use their massive wealth to purchase blood from willing donors, though, which is a completely valid method of existence. They tend to still show up as evil on divination spells, but those are notoriously unreliable anyway.
>>94360686>Why?As you can see by 99% of answers, is only D&Done consumers parroting the same shit. With alignment bullshit and all included. Basically: there's not reason to don't make some of your vampires good.
>>94352593Theft of blood is still theft. If someone is not willing or able to agree to the laws of civilized society than society has no need to care for them.
>>94366244>there's not reason to don't make
>>94366304Why do you deliver this NPC tier response? Are consoomers totally unable give their own arguments? You're boring.
>>94366399Care to break down the grammatical nuances?
>>94367258I doubt they know how
>>94367299>I doubt their knowed whenFTFY
>>94367553Lmao
>>94367258I broke down your mom's anus last night, doesn't that count?
Yes, they are fun to hunt, sometimes I just hunt them for sport.
>>94360624No they aren't, they're all genetically-engineered bio-weapons who were irresponsibly contained.
>>94367935>doesn'tESL please go and stay goed
I'm the nigga who fantasizes about eco-gothic vampires that serve as apex predators to serve the dream of restoring ecological balance and natural beauty
>>94352619This>>94352818Gay not going to read.You can put a demon in your game then go "but he's a good demon who only possessed livestock". It's gay. It undermines the horror and threat of the monster. The entire premise of a vampire is that it's an inhuman killer that can blend in with humans. Trying to humanize them undermines the concept. Also Anne Rice is a terrible author.
>>94352439No. They might be more inclined to evil acts given their source of sustenance, but a vampire isn't inherently evil.Race = (Alightment)is gay and boring and forces a certain playstyle when interacting with the character. If you know the mysterious owner of the manor in town is a vampire, therefore evil, you will base your actions on that assumption. Who's to say he isn't a noble who pays handsomely for willing and well compensated employees to donate him blood under a doctor's strict care and overwatch? I'm almost tempted to do that now and have them talk about their 401k with matching and six weeks of vacation for shits and giggles.
>>94370670AR was a great writer. Her concepts were gay af tho
>>94352439Something being inherently evil will always be awful writing/world building unless the evil beings in question are non-sentient.
>>94370670I can name like 50+ fictions where vampires are not evil monsters incapable of being good because of some god magic. in fact i doubt i could name 10 that weren't that way. because it makes for awful story telling and only works in pnp because the primary point of PNP is video game RPG for luddites.No one wants pure inhuman unrelatable monsters unless you're going for eldritch horror and even then, not so much. There's a reason "understandable villain" has been the rage for at least two decades now. No one finds edgelord "XD HE JUST EVIL AND TORTURES KITTIES JUST BECAUSE. HE HAS NO MOTIVE, NO REASON, NO GOALS. HE JUST EEEEEVIL" to be very interesting.
Yes, turning into a vampire in a first place requires a willing renounciation of gods and a blood ritual with a human sacrifice to bind sorcerer's soul forever to the material world. Nice people do not become vampires in the first place.
>>94368357Your mum DOES like it tho
>>94370723Wow, everything is gray and ambiguous, how interesting and deep! Truly only the real intellectuals will appreciate my milquetoast commentary on how traditionally evil folklore creatures are relatable because they are outcasts and shit.Moral devils and immoral paladins here I come!
>>94371439>has been the rage for at least two decades nowNo wonder, since little good has been created in the last two decades or so.
The only thing worse than le good vampire is le good lich. Fucking snowflakes m8
>>94352439Yes. Because it's my campaign and I say so
>>94371439>There's a reason "understandable villain" has been the rage for at least two decades now.Cringe millenial shit, and it's already on its way out as a fad. All the classics like LOTR understood that a story doesn't need a sob emo "I'm so misunderstooooooood" lame-ass anti-villain to be nuanced; and similarly a hero doesn't need to be an edgy anti-hero to be nuanced. World has too many snowflakes trying to stand out by copying eachother.Sauron's evil because he wants power and what makes him interesting is the means he uses to achieve it, including appearing angelic to deceive mortals.The primordial titans of classic mythology (from Europe to the middle east) are evil because they represent forces of nature which were subdued by the gods representing forces of civilization. What makes them interesting is the symbolism they invoke.You can go many paths beyond making your character an edgy emo kid for "depth", but unfortunately that requires the author to have some genuine intelligence and creativity.
>>94372766So how's your Twilight campaign, hon?
>>94373457what would be the best system for a Twilight campaign?
>>94375625Monsterhearts
