>>94405186
:>

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>>94405197
Hello there.

>>94405186
I enjoyed the scam sorcery cult that a Tremere antitribu character of mine ran called the "Society of the Eternal Vial." They worshiped the secret Saint Goratrix the most wise one THEY don't want you to know about because he supposedly discovered how to replicate Jesus' blood through alchemy. and of course the cult promised a watered down version of that blood (because obviously people can't handle the pure divinity without getting used to the diluted version first) to higher-ranking members to use as potions that would grand immortality, super strenght and the ability to command lesser human beings with your words alone! but to dilute it we needed the cultists blood of course

>>94404434
I heard a bit of his VTMB TTRPG Stream on his Discord server. He seems fine and I agree with >>94404916. You probably would have either a boring game or a game filled with WoD lore. But rule wise, he would know rules because he's always with his book open and checking rules.

Hate to drag up something from the old thread, but I've been busy over the last few days and couldn't address it when I wanted to.

>>94397365
I mean I named a bunch of movies where that isn't exclusively what happens. Let me put it another way: I can see pretty clearly how you go from folktales about vampires, to Varney the Vampire, to Dracula, to Interview with the Vampire, to Vampire: the Masquerade.

I don't really see the chain that connects folktales about werewolves, to the Garou of Werewolf: the Apocalypse. And apparently I'm not the only one, as I can't help but notice that, where VtM Revised has a list of books and movies that you can watch for inspiration about vampires , WtA Revised's own similar section says outright "most movies, books, and TV shows that depict werewolves aren't very helpful source material for a Werewolf game", and then goes out to outline a bunch of movies and books that AREN'T good source material...which include just about every movie or book featuring werewolves that anyone has ever heard of. Instead it recommends stuff like The Call of the Wild and American Indian Myths and Legends.

You wanna roll up Lestat de Lioncourt, Deacon Frost, Marlow Roderick, Edward Cullen, Selene, any flavor of Dracula, Vampire the Masquerade's got your back to not only let you make a character approximating them, but also let you play in a world that will basically support them and their goings-on.

You wanna roll up Cornell, Lucian, Lawrence Talbot, Laurie, or Scott Howard, Werewolf: The Apocalypse expressly tells you you're playing the wrong game, that it's taken the term "werewolf" and applied it to things that aren't really werewolves.

That doesn't mean it can't be fun in its own right - but it does mean that it's all kinds of disappointing to people who wanted to play a game where they're werewolves in the same way that Vampire lets you play a game where you're a vampire.

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>>94405386
>You wanna roll up Cornell, Lucian, Lawrence Talbot, Laurie, or Scott Howard, Werewolf: The Apocalypse expressly tells you you're playing the wrong game, that it's taken the term "werewolf" and applied it to things that aren't really werewolves.
Because at the end of the day the average werewolf is almost unplayable.

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>>94405423
People would have probably made the same argument about vampires if they were going off of nothing but the novel Dracula, since among other things the novel makes it a point that vampires aren't very intelligent on average and Dracula is an unusual outlier due purely to his age. But then Anne Rice in the 70s decided to sit down and figure out what a society of undead bloodsuckers would actually look like, while still keeping them recognizable as vampires. And VtM built off of that, and the result is that if I wanted to I could legit roll up a pastiche of the Count von Count and fit him into Vampire: the Masquerade with surprising ease.

White Wolf had a similar opportunity with WtA, but instead of trying to figure out what a society of werewolves would be like while still keeping them recognizable as werewolves and compatible with just about any kind of werewolf from media you wanted to roll up, just decided to create something whole-cloth and just call them werewolves for marketing purposes.

>>94405466
>just decided to create something whole-cloth and just call them werewolves for marketing purposes.
Yeah they did that and it is easy to see why they did so. If they didn't the end product would be Not!Promethean a couple decades earlier.

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"I want to use Life and Matter to safely extract all microplastics from my person." What would this accomplish?

>>94405602
Purify their bodies.
Microplastics aren't just "tiny pieces of plastic", they're corrupting shards that get you sick through both physical and spiritual means. Why do you think Pentex is so hellbent on spreading them? Even the Progenitors agree microplastics are bad - and they'd probably want to do exactly the same but with bionanomachines or something.
A person that is suddenly cleansed of microplastics finds himself being able to breathe better, their blood pressure is much healthier, their weakened senses improve, some of their mental illnesses might slowly get better or even go away completely.
Depending on the Mage's dominion of the Spheres used (or maybe depending on the roll) it might take multiple sessions to completely extract all the microplastics from a person. And even then they'd probably have to forego a lot of modern products and foods in order to stay clean.

>Players want to play Mages that are already somewhat experienced
>Tell them to come up with backstories, Including their Awakenings
>They come up with some of the most depressing trauma ridden shit I've ever heard
This is the group that wanted "a more optimistic story" by the way.

>>94405706
Every member of the Guardians of the Galaxy has a traumatic backstory but those still managed to be fairly optimistic movies. Not saying you need to go full Marvel, mind, I'm just saying that backstory drama doesn't necessarily inform the actual story. If you want an older example. '60s Batman has the same backstory as every other version of Batman: as a young kid he saw his parents murdered in front of him. And yet, this happened in the series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4tMrr0PPEM

Again, you don't have to go this camp, I'm just pointing out that the option for optimism, lighthearted adventure, or even outright silliness, is there.

>>94405565
>and it is easy to see why they did so
I mean it obviously worked from a marketing standpoint since Werewolf was one of the company's Big Three alongside Vampire and Mage. But it's still disappointing that it's 2024 and we don't have an actual, genuine game where you play as a Werewolf as you grew up understanding them.

I've heard WoD players tend to be horny as fuck.
In your experience, how often do games devolve into ERP?

>>94405906
>But it's still disappointing that it's 2024 and we don't have an actual, genuine game where you play as a Werewolf as you grew up understanding them.
Because the Wolfman and Co lack a decent standard goal besides "get rid of the curse" or "kill shit because we are serial killer stand ins".
If you want a more vanilla-ish werewolf story go translate the Skyrim perks and give XP for eating people and vampires so at least they have a reason to act as murder hobos.

>>94405936
>how often do games devolve into ERP?
I have never seen or heard of that happening.

>>94405957
>Because the Wolfman and Co lack a decent standard goal besides "get rid of the curse" or "kill shit because we are serial killer stand ins".

If you want to be that reductive then vampires are traditionally just "drink blood" and "make more vampires", yet we've got thirty-odd years of a tabletop RPG that could support anything from Twilight to Blade to 30 Days of Night.

>>94405466
>just decided to create something whole-cloth and just call them werewolves for marketing purposes.
Aren't they basically styled after native american folklore? Which is why they borrow a lot from the cultures, too. You might argue that's not really werewolves, but I feel that's like arguing the eastern vampires aren't really vampires.

>>94406003
>Aren't they basically styled after native american folklore?
I mean sure, I guess, in that every culture on the planet has stories about people able to turn into apex predators. But the game isn't called Skinwalkers: the Apocalypse, it's called Werewolf: the Apocalypse. So you'd think that it would take most of its cues from werewolves, not skinwalkers.

>>94405466
>call them werewolves for marketing purposes.
They feel exactly like werewolves though. Everything you could want in a werewolf is there. Anytime there's werewolf societies in media, it's always quasi-tribal and brutal, just like in W:tA. The only difference is that it gives you something to do other than sit around until the full moon where you murder some innocent.

>>94406020
I don't think I'm following you anon. What exactly do you want from your Werewolf game?
Don't tell me "I want it to take cues from werewolves." Tell me exactly what those cues are.

>>94405974
>If you want to be that reductive then vampires are traditionally just "drink blood" and "make more vampires",
I am not trying to be reductive, even if I write like it, what I am trying to convey is that there really isn't a good goal for werewolf PCs, who want to stay wolves, in most media and that fucks with the writing process.

Yes, yes, fine, I shall join your wizard cult. I shall fuck your women, your men, your they/thems, as you asked. I shall even encourage neuronormative people to cast spells. But, first, I must be permitted one thing: execute every last Etherite for the crime of cringe. Do we agree?

>>94406064
It’s more what I don’t want, which is all the Captain Planet and spirituality stuff being so inherently baked into everything. I don’t even mind it as an aspect of it, or as something lurking in the background like Caine/the Antediluvians in Vampire, but it just feels like Werewolf’s metaplot forces itself into Werewolf games more than Vampire’s does. It ironically feels more monolithic.

>>94406135
Nice try, Technoc-rat.
We all know you're jealous of our inherently genius inventions. Go back to your "safety protocols" and "rules and regulations" and other sissy shit.

>>94406211
Why do female Etherites fuck literally anyone but male Etherites?

>>94406237
they can make their perfect subservient partner/ fuck doll (promethean) so why would the fuck male Etherites?

>>94406167
I understood that from the beginning. I'm trying to understand what you want.
It's not like the ST system and WrA rules are super amazing, so if you don't like the metaplot itself then you're better off looking for a completely different game.

>>94406249
Why, after I saw an Etherite spill ketchup on his jacket, did I see that same ketchup stain four months later?

>>94406237
Because male Etherites are chuds who create their own robotic waifus and female "Etherites" are hypocritical feminists who should spend more time inventing things and less time bitching about the name of the Tradition.

>>94406237
etherites don't actually share the entire paragrim with each other. So imagine the stereotypical american hollywood family where husband and wife are constanly arguing because they can't understand each other but both are schizo and see reality differently and are 110% sure they are right... and have doomsday weapons and are not afraid to use them

I thought HP system was cool. Then I understood, that its basically "these is your hp, some damage types deal double damage after reduction"

>>94406271
fucker probably hasn't left his lab in 4 months.
you know what? tell him his project is contaminated because of the ketchup and watch him despair

. . . and Curseborne!

>>94406379
Your video series about how you hate all bloodlines that can't be entirely summed up in one sentence is cringe, Dawkins

>>94406379
i am actually running it right now, but i don't think this thread wants to talk about it

I'm super new to WoD.
I haven't seen anyone make or use miniatures. Do people do entirely "theater of the mind" for these games?

>>94406505
mostly yeah, even then the only game i ever been in that didn't just used theater of the mind used pictures and battlemaps online for fighting scenes instead of miniatures

>>94406167
That's not a metaplot, anon. The W:tA metaplot is not the Garou and Fera being spiritual precursors who fight beings overtaken with kegare like a combination of Okami and Splatterhouse. The metaplot is shit like the Stargazers leaving the Garou Nation and joining the Beast Courts because they lost Shigalu Monastery, or the Get of Fenris killing off the Swords of Heimdall.

Also, if you want actual Captain Planet, pick up Mage and get five people to split an avatar. W:tA involves a much bigger spirit that has to fit through two layers of avatars to talk to anyone as small as a human being for even fleeting moments, so you're not getting a familiar, human interaction. However, that presence also serves to hold everything together a lot better than the spirits in Forsaken, who want to stab each other in the back constantly as a matter of their own existence and seemingly nothing else and can't be assed to give a straight answer about anything at all.

>>94406505
There were some sparse miniatures rules in some older books. The core books for the first two editions of W:tA and WoD: Combat are all we really have, and the latter is meant to vaguely sync up with WW's old licensed Street Fighter RPG (yes, really).

>>94406505
>Do people do entirely "theater of the mind" for these games?
Most of the time it's not necessary and it doesn't add enough to justify.

>>94406635
Derp.
>>94406505
>anyone make or use miniatures

>>94406379
Go away, Phipps. No one wants you shilling Curseborne because you're salty that WoD doesn't have advancing metaplot anymore.

>>94406505
No one makes/uses them because the rules don't support them like D&D dones.

>>94405602
You are straight now.

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How does someone escape from the Technocracy? In this case I'm specifically talking about an Interation X Extraordinary Citizen. It's gotta be possible right?

>>94407160
>How does someone escape from the Technocracy?
You don't.

>>94407235
Shut up Ed

>>94407160
it's hard because the NWO do program non VE members of the union, but another mage with enough mind magic should be able to undo do that so the question is rather if a Extraordinary Citizen, not even a real mage after all would know where to look for those mages and be worthwhile enough for mages outside of the union to bother with

>>94407245
Am I wrong tho?

>>94407160
Probably wouldn't happen without intervention from an outside source. In addition to general Technocratic conditioning, for Iteration X specifically they're very collectivist and work as one machine.

I feel like Werewolf: the Apocalypse would work much better as a game if it were Changing Breeds: the Apocalypse, with the fera species replacing the Tribes. Would certainly help douse down the disappointment people expecting gothic from the game because of the title have when they find out it's about druids fighting capitalism.

>>94407339
>>94407416
To give some context as to why I chose what I chose, I had a realization earlier today that the Technocracy could be a really excellent vehicle to use the classic Kamen Rider theme of "Technology created by evil that is taken/goes rogue and used for good". I was thinking Iteration X because if anyone has a rider belt it's them, and an Extraordinary Citizen because it has an underdog twist and you can make it so that they Awaken (to justice) when they take the belt and transform for the first time. Thats the general context for the concept i'm working with here.

With that context in mind, do you anons have any ideas on how it could happen?

>>94408109
Well, if you're going to go that path, maybe a proper Technocrat gets disillusioned with the rest of his tradition (I presume you'd want to emphasize all the worst parts of Iteration X for this concept) and tries to escape along with your character.
For whatever reason, he dies or is otherwise crippled, having to leave the fighting to your char, but he could potentially still act as a sort of mentor if you decide to go that route.

>>94408147
>maybe a proper Technocrat gets disillusioned with the rest of his tradition (I presume you'd want to emphasize all the worst parts of Iteration X for this concept) and tries to escape along with your character.
>For whatever reason, he dies or is otherwise crippled,
THE FIRST USER OF THE BELT, OF COURSE. That's genius anon, holy shit. He tries to escape with the PC and a stolen experimental belt but is killed/crippled, leaving the PC to pick up the belt. Problem is, the belt can only be used by Enlightened individuals, and the PC is just Extraordinary. But, the situation and sheer drive to fully take the plunge and put on the belt causes him to Awaken, and thus allowing him to use the belt and ultimately escape. I feel like this could work

I've been reading up a bit on mage and I can't help but think that the traditions are generally pretty damn lame. I just don't get the appeal compared to the technocracy. I mean, why would you want to be a Dreamspeaker instead of a Void Engineer or a Verbena instead of a Progenitor? In terms of roleplay obviously there's a place for those sorts of characters and the real life cultures/traditions they represent but I don't really get the power fantasy aspect of playing as someone like that

>>94408306
You can't see the appeal of wanting to play as a witch who uses magic to take down the corrupt government conspiracy?

>>94408306
The Traditions are bad, except Sons of Ether (maybe)

>>94408306
Void Engineers are the coolest of the Technocrats so that's not really fair. But for stuff like Etherites you can be Dr. Frankenstein, for Virtual Adepts you can be Neo, for Dreamspeakers you can be Aang, etc. There's plenty of power fantasies in being the scrappy guys who fight against The Man.

>>94408490
Leaving aside the ideological aspect of it, just on an aesthetic/vibes level, I love the men-in-black shadowy sort of feel that the NWO and the Syndicate have. When it comes to the other conventions, and the technocracy as a whole really, it feels like they're the adults in the room compared to their tradition counterparts. For example, >>94408599 mentioned Frankenstein for example. When I picture a Sons of Ether mage doing it, I ask myself something like "why is this guy wasting time playing with his tesla coils or whatever instead of joining the Progenitors and doing actual (Enlightened) science?". In general I have the impression that Tradition mages are dilettantes playing around while the Technocracy has reality by the balls - well, not quite, but they're doing their best.

>>94408685
>why is this guy wasting time playing with his tesla coils or whatever instead of joining the Progenitors and doing actual (Enlightened) science?
In Mage, those are the same thing. Enlightened science is just magic with a dosage of Technocratic cope. There's no "actual" Enlightened science, they're casting spells just like the Traditions are. The only difference between an Etherite putting up a lightning rod to reanimate a dead body and a Progenitor who grabs a defibrillator to restart a stopped heart is that the latter has convinced the Sleepers their way is scientific and rational. At the end of the day, they're both using Forces and Life to convert electricity into healing. You might prefer the aesthetics of one over the other, but if you put aside the ideologies then the aesthetics are pretty much the only difference between them.

>>94408685
The technocrats are significantly more limited by their paradigms compared to the traditions, hence why they still have to create Horizon Realms to house some of their more advanced shit.
A Son of Ether would rather "waste time playing with his tesla coils" than join the Progenitors because his imagination, creativity and drive to invent goes beyond what Enlightened science paradigms offers. He COULD join the Progenitors and help their biotech reanimation project to create undead super soldiers... until the technocracy deems his ideas too radical and gets the masses to turn against them, essentially ruining him forever.
They're not "the adults in the room." They're buzzkill bullies who've become the very same tyrants they originally sought to destroy, except they're even more collectivistic. But as a Delta Green player I can definitely get the appeal of the MIB cryptoconspiracy part.

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>>94408685
Tbh you're not going to get me defending the Etherites- I wouldn't play one. Like you said if you want to do technology there's already a technology faction. My personal ideal mage game would be "Witch: the Crucible". Your aesthetic/vibe is men-in-black, mine is witches.

(that said I can sort of see someone wanting to play an Etherite, in the sense of playing an off-their-rocker conspiracy theorist. Like think time cube or stop doing math meme or pic related. Or the canon orgone energies and things like that.)

>>94408784
You can have Etherite witches. It'd essentially be Full Metal Alchemist with pagan flavor.

>>94408807
I've never [played/watched/read] FMA so I don't understand what you mean by that?

>>94408784
I don't feel like Etherites really even need technology as a focus, at least not as we think of it. The wheel is technology, so are methods of controlling fire. Think of a witch who wants to discover how to make more powerful potions, so she dedicates her life to experimenting with different types of food to feed the children she throws into her cauldron. That witch would be more Etherite than Verbena imo.

It's cool how the Virtual Adepts are just modern mathematicians

>>94406379
Is there a type of Curseborne that's a zombie who eats people or a masked serial killer in the vein of Jason Voorhees or Michael Myers (or even the guy from Splatterhouse)?

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>>94408306
The Traditions want to destroy all of modern civilization as we know it and return things to the days of superstition and ignorance. They want to live in ivory towers where reality bends to their whims and normal people get ass raped by everything because nothing makes any sense any more. Maybe a fire will keep you warm and you won't freeze to death, or maybe the fire will turn into a rape horse and sodomize you to death and then your corpse will go around biting other people's dicks off.

How do you not want to play someone whose ultimate goal is that?

>>94408996
No.

How much are the Technocrats actually able to leverage the Spheres? I feel like a lot of the Sphere 2 effects just don't work well with Technocrats

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What do you think of radio videos like these? I think they're perfect for Network Zero and Null Mysteriis chronicles
https://youtu.be/j40TcErKnXQ?si=DjIMeVnFJD_5q4jh
>>94405186
>What's the most memorable cult you have encountered or used in game?
Ashwood Abbey, just had them kidnapping and doing obscene stuff on princesses. The players just burned the lodge down, no questions asked.

>>94409085
Dude just check out Ander's Mage Page, he managed to find the perfect way to apply all the spheres as a technocrat for every Convention
>http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/

>>94408841
https://youtu.be/l7YC76dpbbI

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>>94405936
>In your experience, how often do games devolve into ERP?
No, as a matter of fact I struggle precisely because they don't ERP. Maybe vampire goth chicks (check that tik tok ERP book that was shit) but I want to make a lewd Changeling or Princess chronicle and no luck.
I also wanted to play an Ashwood Abbey hunter once and the GM said the group didn't feel comfortable with a rapist in the group. Life is sad

>>94408060
You shouldn't be expecting much gothic from it. It's hanging out with H:tR on the punk side. The tagline even reads as something where splatter/gross out is the order of the day over brooding angst.

>>94409085
See the advantage of Technocrats is that most of their magic ends up being coincidental sooner or later. As a drawback they have a harder time creating imaginative rotes as opposed to their usual toolbox. Take a Technocrat out of his water tank and he's gonna have a bad time.
A Mage uses Correspondence and Matter to teleport an item to his pocket. A Technocrat uses Correspondence and Matter to have a drone quickly deliver an item to him.
The more you go up in Technocrat spheres the closer you get to breaking Consensus. Again, this is why Conventions create their own Chantries and Horizon Realms where they can freely have Resident Evil bioweapons.

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>>94407160
>How does someone escape from the Technocracy?
There's always the deep umbra......

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Where else do you draw inspiration from, anon? To me
>SCP Foundation
>Backrooms
>Creepy pasta and slasher stories
>Escape Rooms
>Dandadan
>Gravity Falls

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>>94405186
I am running a campaign based on this CYOA
I have already expanded the quest web and now just need to stat out half of these characters
Some will be nerfed or removed

>>94409244
>Ashwood Abbey
Played an AA character one time, a lot of fun. (pic related)
Basically like playing a slaaneshi serial killer
Hilariously I maxed out his good looks and played him as really bro-tier to everyone in the party so everyone in character gave him a pass.
>Making everyone protien shakes with ground up cocaine and vampire fangs

>>94405186
>What's the most memorable cult you have encountered or used in game?
A game where the cult was working to resurrect and incubate the abandoned dead runt fetus of an elder god using collected human vitae energy they collected from throwing a series of raves and parties.
The party was assisted by a FEAR NOT tier angelic being who told them in no uncertain terms they had to abort the little sucker with mankinds "greatest sword" (nukes) or it would be the end of existence, and that his kind was incapable of intervening

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>>94409532
>forgot pic
Ashwood Abbey are a fun bunch of degenerate sociopaths
>>94409244

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>>94409477
"Tnhe devil rides out" is one of those classic Hammer horror movies that informs my idea of what a mage game should be like.

>>94409548
>Tnhe devil rides out
The Devil Rides out Jesus Efin Christ!

>>94409503
One of the guys who made this was really into hands, huh?

>>94409562
Probably, but some of those aren't making it into the game

>>94409503
Damn, I'd love to live in that apartment

Can an Imbued ever represent a real danger to Mages?
Everything they do seems incredibly weak in comparison.

If you had the chance, would you like to live in the World of Darkness?
>>94409697
Depends how their specs are, but usually Mages will have the upper hand

>>94409740
why the fuck would I want to?
literally no upside

>>94409763
Imagine being a supernatural there. I'd love to be a changeling or a mage

>>94409740
Sure. Means I have the chance to become a Mage

>>94409740
>If you had the chance, would you like to live in the World of Darkness?
Do I get powers/a cool splat?

>>94410232
Yes

>>94410261
>quality of life: improved

>>94408306
My main annoyance with them is that I just don't like the ideological reason we're supposed to hate the Technocracy, and the fact that's what the Traditions care about makes them look unlikeable. In the first edition, they were outright saying how back in the good old days, mages were the rulers, but evil technology gave too much power to the people. And when they're not saying that, they're going on about how "reason" is the enemy of "wonder", which to me is just kinda juvenile. So even if the Traditions have cool aspects, I just can't forget that the cause they're fighting for is so stupid.

>>94409244
>Ashwood Abbey
>The players just burned the lodge down, no questions asked.
Given how they were answered anyway I really don't see the point of asking them.
>>94409477
I'm pretty sure you can scavenge a plot from pretty much anything but if you want an easy time stealing shit without your players noticing you stealing from horror comics is one of the easiest ways of getting a plot. Documentaries are also good but good luck getting 4 people into the period.
>>94409697
>Can an Imbued ever represent a real danger to Mages?
Depends on the context but in most cases the Imbued odds of winning are pretty shit.
>>94409740
No, there's basically no upside even if you are aware of the supernatural.
>>94410333
I really don't get how the writers look at the faction who's win condition is setting people back to the iron age, at best, and thought they came off as sympathetic.

>>94408306
The traditions were all written by a burnt-out hippie who believes in Real Magick and little girls' feet in an era where the anti-establishment alt-scene was very real. Mage is too much of a product of its times.

>>94410618
>I really don't get how the writers look at the faction who's win condition is setting people back to the iron age, at best, and thought they came off as sympathetic.
Its not the stone age when you got instant healing spells, fireballs and magical creatures. All paradigms can be equally useful depending the pov

>>94410618
>>94409740
Okay, how about:
>3+ Well trained and disciplined Imbued (Avenger 4 or 5) vs 5 Inexperienced Hollow Ones with no allies
>3-6 Well trained, disciplined and armed to the teeth Imbued (Avenger 5 + other complimentary shit), maybe even with sleeper allies vs 3 decently trained Mages
>2 Well trained Imbued (Avenger 5 + anything violent) vs 1 decently trained Mage with at least Entropy 3 among other sphere mastery.

>>94412098
I think the difference is that in the, say, Hermetic paradigm, the flu is caused by malicious spirits and demons that, if you go to a mage (if you can find one and he agrees to even see you) and suck his cock, he’ll banish them for you.

In the Technocrat’s paradigm, the flu is caused by a virus, and you can inoculate yourself against it at virtually any pharmacy for as low as $20 and rarely more than $100. And the person giving you the shot isn’t a Technocrat, he’s just some Sleeper like you.

>My Sire is a little girl
I mean, I know we’re Malkavians, but come the fuck on.

>>94412098
Stone age in the sense that instead of people using technology to do things, they go to a mage who casts spells to help them do things.

>>94410333
>>94412263
You know, that’s my issue with the “The Tradition’s win means setting us back to the Stone Age!!!” argument. That’s just the HERMETIC’S vision. Studying how to bend the universe to their will in their ivory towers while the rest of the unwashed plebs are at their mercy. The European Dark Ages was the peak for the Order of Hermes. What each of the Traditions’ end goals for humanity are complete different and sometimes even contradictory to each other. At best, you could only argue the Dreamspeakers and Verbena also want to send us back to the “Dark Ages”, but at least the Dreamspeakers are suppose to help keep our world and the spirit world in balance instead of ruling over people, and the Verbena are just retards.
>Akashics want all of humanity to achieve Enlightenment
>The Celestial Chorus wants to bring everyone closer to God I want to fuck you like an animal
>Ecstatics want everyone to wake up from this earthly existence to spend eternity in absolute pleasure
>Virtual Adepts want to bring about Reality 2.0

>>94412380
didn't we even see the etherite endgame in one book? i remember someone mentioned it in a older thread

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>>94412432
the poster says he doesn't know which book it's in and neither do i because i play mage revised not m20
so take it with a grain of salt

>>94412432
Yeah, it was mentioned in the Revised Tradition Book. Basically think a retro-futuristic utopia. One of many possible futures for the Etherites.
>Etherites want everyone to live like the Jetsons

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>>94404434
lmao he bitched and moaned about the "Tree Scene" in Evil Dead so much that he refuses to watch the other movies

What a fucking tool

>>94412518
How can you be this much of a pussy and be into WoD?

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>>94412547

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>>94412547
>>94412547

Whined about "Silence of the Lambs" too.

>>94412380
I'm more annoyed by the assumptions made in the books, the whole main conflict between reason and "wonder" is a false dichotomy. And the writers clearly originate all the Technocracy's sins from believing in reason, to them that means they are fascists that hate individuality and imagination, and believing in mystic bullshit means you're a free thinker. If it was just about conflict between equally flawed ideologies, it would be interesting, but when they started it they clearly had an agenda, a shitty one at that, which colors everything that comes after, at least to me.

Do the garou have a gift to cast illusions?

>>94410261
I want to be an Ishmaelite, it's an upgrade from being human without needing to be roped into a community of weirdos like mages

>>94412633
How can you be a "horror" fan and think like that.
Also how can you fucking post a picture like that. Some people have no shame.

>>94412547
The inherent weirdness of WoD attracts personality-deficients like this nigga and the entire WoD larp scene. For me, it's Lazar of Stygia and Burgerkrieg.

>>94410057
>become mage
>traditions hate me because I like having tech without taking a bunch of paradox
>technocracy hates me because I don't want to eat the bugs
>nephandi hate me because nephandi
>marauders don't hate me, they just turn me into an avocado because they think I look like one
I'll pass, thanks.

>>94412872
That's literally a Virtual Adept. Their whole gimmick is anarchist Technocrats.

>>94412754
It makes more sense from a hippie/punk "doctors are a bunch of squares" perspective.

>>94409740
Hell no. I don't have the temperament to be a mage. The best I could hope for is catch the eye of a vampire and being a vampire sucks.

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>>94412901
>I don't have the temperament to be a mage
What about a Changeling or a Princess?

>>94412968
>>94409321
What the fuck is a Princess?

>>94412968
Don't know much about changelings. Aren't they kinda like werewolves in the sense that there has to be some blood connection? I look and sound like my dad and he's not a fruit or a furry so being a werewolf or a changeling is out of the question. The CofD version of changelings are just regular people who got kidnapped and bent over backwards by a True Fae. That could happen but that sounds even worse than the shit the Sabbat could do to you.

I will second the question about princesses what is that?

>>94413013
Magical girl

>>94412968
>every anon becomes a princess

>>94412887
I wouldn't want to be a hacktivist or larp as Neo, either. I'd probably end up unaffiliated, but that's a bad spot to be in when you basically have gangs fighting over reality.

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>>94413031
>every anon becomes a princess
If only. I wish I could become a cute magical girl, alas I got a penis.
>>94413013
>>94413026
>I will second the question about princesses what is that?
The best gameline ever conceived for nWoD
https://sites.google.com/site/princessthehopeful/princess-the-hopeful
>The CofD version of changelings are just regular people who got kidnapped and bent over backwards by a True Fae. That could happen but that sounds even worse than the shit the Sabbat could do to you.
Still the most powerful version, the Dreaming changelings can barely manipulate reality

>The Gentleman's Guide to the Nephandi
that can only end up hillarious

>>94413295
I was writing something about the Nephandi. I finally found my title
>The Aristocrat's Guide to the Nephandi

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>>94412844
Because...man idk. He's posh British, yet in his discord types like a hoodrat minus calling people nigga. Admits to having a privileged upbringing so doubles down on attempting inclusivity for people who are disabled in his discord, which winds up excluding people who struggle to put image ids on everything due to disability

lmao. Fuck. It's a shitshow

>fedora

>>94412844
white guilt makes him ashamed to enjoy anything that might exclude somebody

In V5 can you use abilities that require line of sight through oblivion's shadow perspective? I want to play a "guy in the chair" hacker Lasombra who fights from half a mile away with arms of ahriman while guiding/assisting the coterie with 1337hax (and having to use older tech without touch screens due to my clan curse)

>>94412518
>>94412633
>>94413389
It's a shame because I genuinely like this guy's lore by night videos. Apparently he's tired of making them though

>>94413629
I've grown to really dislike him over the last little while. Everything from his voice, to his personality just...just sucks. And his stupid book he wrote about kindred in wheelchairs. Fuck, what an abysmal sack of crap

>>94412968
Being a Changeling sounds like shit because your special fae-ness will eventually disappear, and you don't usually die when that happens, you just sort of...become a normal adult (world of darkness version mind you). All throughout your new life, you have to balance trying to be unique and special in a world that hates the very idea. Depressing. If they ever make a new version of CtD I at least hope they get a power boost. You're a Fae, you're supposed to be immortal, magical, something other.

Also all of the other splats can just kind of shit all over you. Vampires? Chimerstry is REAL. Mages? They can fucking turn stuff into glamour-like stuff at will. Werewolves? The Dreaming is part of the spirit world, so they can do weird fae fuckery too.

>>94413889
Only vampires match the reflexivity of your magic, and only sometimes.

Who would win in a brawl, equal prep: Imbued or Amenti? Imbued are obviously much more capable of responding on the fly, but Amenti can stack a lot of stat boosts, have a shrinking weapon, and summon ghosts.

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>>94413889
That's why Lost are the superior splat. Although I prefer Dreaming backstory, I like the bittersweet mix of Dreaming compared to the horror of Lost, I feel it lends itself really well to contrast with the WoD. I've played Dreaming using the Lost rules.
Now I wish they adapted Dark Ages: Fae to the nWoD, their Unleashing magic system was so cool and even more versatile than Ascension Mages which is impressive.

>>94414050
How would that even work?

>>94412633
Why are we so cringe, fellow WoD/CofD fans?

>>94413080
> alas I got a penis.
Not anymore, Emma.

>>94415116
If only, I wish I could be a cute magical girl who could hang out and have adventures with other cute mahou shoujo. But not even in wod is that possible as its very difficult to find people who want to play princess games.

>>94415173
Well, Emma, tomorrow you’ll wake up as princess.
A tzii-made one, perhaps, but a princess.

>>94415272
...who is Emma?

>>94415315
(You) are. Better get used to it.

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What are the coolest Changeling: the Lost concepts you've ever seen?

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>>94413389

>>94409477
What has Dandadan inspired in your games?

>>94405386
>>94405466
Werewolf is in a funny position because what happened to werewolves is the reverse of vampires.
Viking, Slavic, Native American, and French legends all made clear that werewolves were basically D&D druids: they'd learned a supernatural skill that let them take over animals' bodies. Then a bunch of 1800s novelists decided it'd be more interesting to replace the Society of Shapeshifters with a weird zombie curse.

Being a marauder seems pretty fun. The only real downside is that you'll be hunted down eventually

>>94415664
I made a spirit plot inspired on the Turbo Granny but of course with another name and forced the hunters to investigate and hunt it in the tunnels.
Am planning to use the serpos in the chronicle to play the alien abduction angle as several people experience time dilation and fugue states that they have reported in the village. I want to make a Gravity Falls type of town where weirdness accumulates and have them fight some of the aliens who crashed there.

>>94415648
>Can't stomach an angry molesting tree but wants more violence
>Brings up Elon out of nowhere, despite him being openly vocal about his fear of AI
>"Nothing in media regarding AI has ever turned out well"
>Doesn't know basics such as I, Robot, Ghost in the Shell, Serial Experiments Lain, Blade Runner, Pluto, Astro Boy/Mega Man and dozens if not hundreds of other works that portray the ascension of AI into human levels of consciousness
>This uneducated sanctimonious sanitized brainlet is what people look up to for their Storytelling
People shit on Matt Mercer for his effect on Dung & Drag but the man is merely a product of an environment that puts safety over creativity, curiosity and learning.
Back in my day we would've gatekept this pussy through mockery.

>>94415674
Nta

>Viking, Slavic, Native American, and French legends all made clear that werewolves were basically D&D druids:

That's... something of a stretch. The moon-bound murder machine is definitely a modern invention, but D&D Druid is exaggerating pretty wildly. Folklore werewolf-like-beings are usually somewhere between a simple magic user to some sort of evil spirit. I think they always served as an allegory for man's savage side that or a fear of that which lurks in the woods, it's just that they changed with the 1800s because of the industrial revolution. In the western context they're pretty bang on for the culture of repression that dominated much of polite society. The only historical Werewolves I'd say WtA even kinda lines up with are those weirdos that claimed to turn into werewolves and fight demons in hell for God.

My main problem with apoc has never been that they can change at will, but the main conceit of the game being "Fight to save the world, but everyone on your side is an angry retard" is where it loses me. I don't get why oWoD did this hard turn into "heroic" monsters after VtM. It's my problem with most of the oWoD splats.

>>94415851
It's the same thing as with Mage and Changeling: embrace folklore to reject neoliberalism. While it's a stretch to connect it to environmentalism, werewolves were the best option for it because of their connections with altered cognitive states, spirituality, and an authentic, primal self.

>>94415648
>>94415728

I guess he already got gatekept and whined about it

also, he's a "Professional GM". So that's more cancer

>>94415851
>Folklore werewolf-like-beings are usually somewhere between a simple magic user to some sort of evil spirit. I think they always served as an allegory for man's savage side that or a fear of that which lurks in the woods
A lot (A LOT) of them are just "a guy who owns a magic belt that lets him put on an animal pelt and become that animal".
In the Slavic myths werewolves and vampires are even the same guy: if your human body dies while you're astrally projected you can spirit-jump into your corpse.

>>94413026
>That could happen but that sounds even worse than the shit the Sabbat could do to you.
CtL is remarkably limited and shortsighted for what it purports to deal with. Because CtL primarily deals the the rape victims of the Gentry and how they form support groups to protect themselves from their abusers. Yet, logically and thematically, you'd have other types of individuals who've had vastly different experiences with Faerie. And not every changeling's durance would reflect being trapped in a shitty GM's magical realm.

>>94415851
>Fight to save the world, but everyone on your side is an angry retard
Tbf most of what the Garou do runs on sheer belief. They don't actually know if they're right in what they're doing, and they refuse to know otherwise. 99% of what they actually do is murder innocent's for working at the wrong factory, and anyone who might've seen them wolf out.

>>94416051
That's a better way to put the Werewolf-Mage-Changeling setup than I've seen before. Though surely you can understand why that particular flavor isn't to everyone's liking, especially since the flagship game of the "world" of darkness doesn't really align with that central theme in the slightest. Don't get me wrong, I hate neoliberalism as much as the next person with a functioning frontal lobe, but I've never found the oWoD criticisms to have much teeth. Moreover, it's a weird flavor for me coming off of Vampire.

>>94416162
True. You could easily roll folkloric "Werewolves" into magic users in general or another splat such as vampire. Though, and this might be something of a stretch itself, I've always felt like myths about "wild men" like the european woodwose and the many native american wild men (who are often lumped in with bigfoot today) have a lot of things about them that nowadays get associated with Werewolves.

>>94416211
While that might be true, it's not like the game does much to facilitate other styles of play. Pretty much every Werewolf book I've read has a focus on averting the apocalypse and fighting the wyrm. So even if we wanted to go wild with it and say the Garou are on some bullshit and have no idea what they're talking about, their war with the Wyrm, whatever it is, is still the focus of the game.

>>94416260
An easy way to frame many of the games and their tone is by who made it: Rein-Hagen or the Wieck brothers. The games Rein-Hagen made are more about how the world will grind down everything beautiful in your life and you must fight a political war for your peace. He made Vampire and Wraith. The Wieck brothers made games about less-fatalistic social warfare against the evils of the world by embracing and living according to what you want to protect. They made Mummy, Mage. and Changeling. Werewolf kinda has both, but is more the latter.

>>94416098
What the hell is a "Professional GM"?

>>94416176
>And not every changeling's durance would reflect being trapped in a shitty GM's magical realm.
And those are Playmates who've been tossed aside, or they're Loyalists, if they're in a situation where they're PCs.

>>94416420
somebody that asks for money to let you play the game they're running

I am very nearly at my limit
Where is hedgefag?

>>94417163
Dead.

>>94416420
Where the hell have you been?

https://startplaying.games/

Shit like this

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>>94417618
>https://startplaying.games/
>those gms.

What were the most interesting and different local politics y'all encountered in a VtM game? I'm talking unusual Primogen/Bishop council composition, treatys between sects, special Clan restrictions/privileges, territorial arrangements, etc.

>>94417163
Alive.

>>94418052
Don't know about interesting, but I like our current "powerless institution" configuration, given players had a hand in its making, so it grew up organically over time.

Malkavian primogen is a neonate that believes he is an elder who just woke up from torpor. He is powerless, has no contacts, no knowledge of the board. The clan refuses to allow anyone but him at the council.
Toreador is a fop that was only put in place because he is useless, has no ambition and was perfectly happy to act as a transparent strawman for the prince.
Gangrel has no one to represent - clan all left the cam some time ago. He is old *powerful*, has worked decades to get into that position. No one wants to be the one to tell him that he is useless and has to go.
Ventrue primogen is the representent of the smallest, least powerful faction of a local clan spread in three groups stuck in what seems a perpetual mexican standoff, and the only reason he has the charge is that everyone is quite certain he can't make use of it.
Brujah is relatively competent, but the only decent guy in a clan in which the power-movers are all sociopaths who sees any negotiation as a zero-sum game: it's not enough that they win, the others should lose... so he can't get anything done and everyone hates his guts for trying to make things decent for as many as possible.
Banu Haquim has just been instated on ground that he has no voting power outside of strictly clan-related issues.
Tremere hasn't left her chantry for years. Rumors abound, but no one known the truth (been transforming into... /something/ whose blatant third eye is the least conspicuous aspect).
Nosferatu is ruthless, generally very good a the game, but it's just been made public she betrayed insterests of the clan for personal gain. Her position is in jeopardy.
Sherrif has just stepped down over matters of honor (ventrue).
Whip has just been killed.
Last but not leat: Prince hasn't been seen in months, some fear claimed by the Beckoning.

>>94416468
>And those are Playmates who've been tossed aside
In the parlance of the rape victims, sure. For every aristocratic member of the Gentry who likes abducting humans to keep them as toys, you may have the autistic fixation similarly manifest as something like the wise mentor who finds those he deems worthy to be his student and teaches them kung-fu until he has nothing left to teach and they're sent away.

>>94418801
Hell, if you wanted to go a step further you could play with things like meta-titles where multiple individuals can be ensnared to serve as roles in a fate-born structure of loyalties and betrayals. And that's what the "Fae" is. The title itself is a fate-bending curse that finds hosts. The Warring Triad. Those Bound By Fate. That sort of thing.

Wish me luck boys, in a few hours, I'll see if my gym teacher turned hunter is going to be called Lucy for the rest of the game cause he made a bet that vampires didn't exist to one of his cell mates.

>>94419126
He realizes that people will call any sort of supernatural creature that drinks blood for sustenance a vampire, right?

>>94419183
No, he is kind of an idiot who is confident the string of flash coma patients suffering from anemia and euphoria are the victims of some kind of predatory ghostly possession, and since he knows ghosts are real, he's confident in this assumption because HE is clearly an expert on this subject

>>94419126
you play hunter set in a prison? sounds interesting

>>94419197
Lucy sounds like my kind of character.

>>94419201
Well I know the game I'm going to pitch next

>>94419204
He spent most of the investigation before the cell's first hunt together munching on donuts and rambling about ghosts, possessions and the like. It didn't help his ego when most of the horseshit he was throwing around like "Stage five phantasmal remnant haunting behavior" lined up the behavior of the monster we were tracking down.

Whose lair turned out to be an abandoned mall that he'd take the football team of the school he worked for into as a sort of hazing ritual/ ghost hunt, and he just never ran into the fucking thing until it started abducting teenagers

The issue is, he is the only cell member with a legit sense for the paranormal (Being a medium) and the one with the most experience with it, having been the child star of a ghost hunting show and spending most of his free time trying to kickstart a revival of it, means he legitimately knows a lot about ghosts (And was able to convince the rest of the party their first successful hunt was a ghost, Even though it was dead ass a slasher)

So, in his currently sky high ego he said, when one of the younger hunters was saying "Look, if ghosts are real, why can't vampires be real, what makes a blood sucking corpse so unbelievable to you" He replied "Look, if vampires are real, you can just call me Lucy, they don't make any sense biologically, but I know violent specters can occasionally possess corpses in a way that some what resemble the popular myth of vampires *Pauses to eat have a jelly cream in one bite*, and that's totally what this is"

And so now half the cell is waiting to rub it in his face when they, prepped for ghost busting on a five dollar budget, run right into a real fucking vampire

>>94417166
>>94418470
Schrödinger's hedgefag, eh?

>>94419312
>Schrödinger
A literal pedo who would def molest hedgefag if he could

>>94415648
I want to fuck that doll.

>>94415107
Both settings are about maladjusted freaks that don't fit in with mainstream society. Even the normie humans that happen upon the supernatural eventually become too fucking weird.

>>94416211
You're looking for the door marked "Mage". Werewolf wasn't about the power of belief, and its description of the setting, the mission, and the purpose are accordingly quite concrete in comparison to the constant "well, maybe, what do you believe?" of Mage.

>>94420228
You completely misread what he wrote. What he was saying was Woof's are unreasonable retards who think killing factory workers will stop the wyrm, and stick closely to their belief that this works among other similarly retarded beliefs, like Gaia loves them or they're not fucking everything up further.

Not that he thought they work of the same principle of "I reject your reality in favor of my own" like mages do.

>>94420322
Not a legitimate criticism of Werewolf but an incredible simulation!

>>94419910
Gehrman, no!

Any advice for running a Beast the Primordial one shot?
I have finally gathered enough blackmail to get a group together. The premise is that they are contracted by a C.I.A proxy to vacate a housing project for MK Ultra 2 so they get to indulge themselves with minimal consequences while having a general goal.

>>94419910
It is a trap. Like she has an actual bear trap installed on her cunt.

>>94420908
Didn't freak legions have that as an option for formori? I saw a copy in an LGS once, but didn't buy it when I had the chance.

Regret that shit

>>94420958
Yeah that's a thing.

>>94421049
Bitchin

>>94415107
>Why are we so cringe, fellow WoD/CofD fans?
Because we have a very niche hobby and the weirdos make up a larger impression and impact than normal communities.

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>>94421049
Grim

>>94421066
Check out the Mega. Odds are even if you don't want to use fomorians you can use the rules elsewhere, Like some Vicissitude bullshit or supernatural flaw.

>>94421085
NTA, but have you converted the cost of fomori powers to xp? Or just kept the "balance powers with taints" approach?

>>94421103
It has been a while since I read the Fomori book but I'm pretty sure you can translate autonomy cost into XP directly and adjust if something seems off.

>>94421085
Nah I regret not having that shit in physical so I can inflict it on others without dragging them to my PC

>>94421268
Fair enough.

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>fomori
Fuck yeah!

Fomori sound really scary, I want to use them as enemies for my Mage campaigns.
What's the recommended reading for this?

>>94421377
Don't forget the vore power

>>94421397
For me, it's Brain Eating, Mind Rape and Succubi's Veil.

>>94421388
Freak Legions is all you need.

>>94421388
>What's the recommended reading for this?
Captain Planet, any possession movie you can think off and The Fly.

>>94421388
all the books of the wyrm (although most information will overlap), wta20 corebook but don't worry you only need the antagonist chapter, freak legion, possessed (also features weaver drones, weave gorgon and gayan' kami)

i know they are also in the dark age werewolf books, but i don't know if they have something unique in them and i feel like i am missing one

Might not be the perfect place to ask this question but I'd probably be mistaken for bumpfag if I made a thread for it:

How do you generally rule the intricacies of the invitation vampire curse? I know it's a weird tzimisce only flaw in masquerade but it's a universal bane in requiem . I think it's one of the strongest in flavor vampire weakness, but it has a lot of minutae that can make things annoying when using it in an RPG.
>What counts as a home?
>What counts as an invitation? Does it have to be a resident or can guests invite the vampire in?
>Must they be invited in every time or is it one and done?
>Could they be physically forced into a home against their will and if so, are there consequences?

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Any ideas for a V:TM game set in South Padre Island? It's a resort town with a prominent nightlife in the most southern part of South Texas.

>>94421499
I remember a player got this flaw in a masquerade game we had a long time ago. IIRC:

>>What counts as a home?
Do you mean in the physical sense? "Under the bridge" is not a home, even if a homeless guy "lives" there. It must be a closed place and someone must think of it as his home.
>>What counts as an invitation? Does it have to be a resident or can guests invite the vampire in?
Anyone can invite the vampire. There was a precedent from... a movie? myth? I forgot, sorry.
>>Must they be invited in every time or is it one and done?
Just once.
>>Could they be physically forced into a home against their will and if so, are there consequences?
They can be physically forced into a home, they just can't bring themselves to enter it (or to outright tell/ask/command someone to carry him inside).

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>>94421457
>possessed
>where do you workout?

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One "RPG" I am extremely hyped for is Eric Zawadzki's Black Vans: a supplement for Deviant: The Renegades that essentially attempts to turn it into a one-stop shop of a genre-adaptable, toolbox RPG, in the best way possible. I have subscribed to the Patreon, and the previews have absolutely captured my interest with how bold and ambitious they are: and, seemingly, with an actual eye for intra-character balance.

Bad news gang, it was a vampire! Some shrieking bitch breed of one. Hunted her down IN THE MIDDLE OF A PUNK ROCK SHOW

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>>94421915
Vampires everywhere, bro.

>>94421377
>>94421397
i am personally a big fan of the power that just makes you 100% look untainted even to magic that is meant to sniff out wyrm taint

add to that the fact that you can take rage as a gift

so a fomori can look like the most generic john doe ever and then suddently explode into tentacles, claws, acid and other natural weapons and hit you with a multi attack combo before you know what's going on

I wish I could be a Balam so I could be bester friends with my cat and we could go down to the Amazon to eat loggers together

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>>94422342

>>94421915
Always with the punk shit these vampires. Get over it, punk was never good. Go back to classical music you fuckin' fruit bats.

>>94422698
Saved the guitarist from getting the final and fatal SUCK, as she was making fuck me eyes at him

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>>94422777
>t. cockblocker

>>94422830
She threw hands first. Sure, Lucy called her by her real name after she'd been missing/declared dead for 20 odd years, but she initiated.

One of the other players the throat punched her before she did her banshees impression and caused a Punk rocker stampede

>>94422840
Just let her eat her food.
You eat too, right?

>>94422878
No, Lucy sustains himself solely on good vibes, arrogance and most of the donuts he brings to hunts

>>94422698
MSI is still rocking it with the Electropunk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNFjLzVKVdk

What are some fun rotes for Arete 1 Mages?

>>94421553
That all makes good sense.

Not a physical sense, think more like how does one define a home? Generally I would say legal ownership wouldn't be relevant since many of these myths go back to a time where your average commoner either paid rents to a lord or paid in labor. So a modern apartment still counts as a home.

I'm pretty sure I know your answer, but asking whoever, where do disciplines come in? Can Dominate commands use to obtain entrance? Can Presence/Majesty be used to make someone more relaxed and willing to invite you in? I figure the immediate thought would be no, as it seems a little cheap, but there have been examples of vampires using their charm to obtain entrance to a house.

>>94421553
>Anyone can invite the vampire.
Notably, this can sometimes include doormats. Be very careful about that!

>>94422444
All animals know what uncanny valley is lmao

>>94421693
real drone hours?

>>94424515
Renfield was a flawed movie, but I do love that scene. And Nick Cage generally in it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5mcsWk0EXXI&pp=ygUQUmVuZmllbGQgZG9vcm1hdA%3D%3D

>>94416176
>Because CtL primarily deals the the rape victims of the Gentry and how they form support groups to protect themselves from their abusers
It doesn't though
>Yet, logically and thematically, you'd have other types of individuals who've had vastly different experiences with Faerie
You mean like the characters in the CtL books?

Help me out with this one guys.
My players are meant to be slightly experienced mages. Not masters by any means, but already "independent" enough to fend for themselves. Think 3 dots in Arete at least.
To reflect this, should I:
>Start them with 3 dots in Arete right away so they can use their Freebie points somewhere else
>Start them with 1 dot in Arete and an arbitrary amount of extra Freebie points so they can buy whatever they want
>Start them with 1 dot in Arete but place no restrictions on how many Freebie points they can gain from Flaws

By the "changelings are nothing but rape victims" logic, all versions of Vampire can be boiled down to "vampires are nothing but STD carriers."

>>94426542
The STD aspect is secondary or tertiary to addiction and exploitation

>>94426428
Just give them some extra EXP after character creation.

Was Anubis right to attempt to resolve the Enoch Question?

>>94415618
Man CtL has such a good aesthetic.

nWoD 1e is kinda slept on in the art department. Things like the Dante trace are an exception, not really the rule. Requiem and Forsaken also had some really good pieces.

>>94426428
Second option.

W20 vampire fomori are not bad at all. If you had perfect knowledge of game systems and knew that you weren't going to get screwed I can totally see a lot of pathfags signing up for it.

>>94351809
>In CofD, what's the in-canon reason why Mages haven't just taken over the material world?
Did you miss the part where they literally have?
As always, the best quote comes from the better game (nwod)
>Imperial Primacy
>If this were a different World of Darkness book we’d make an effort to preserve the integrity of the setting against world-breaking elements. If archmages edit the cosmos with impunity, doesn’t that make crossovers with Vampire or Werewolf impossible without chucking those games into a subordinate position? Should we tone it down to give those games room to breathe?
>We decided to let archmages fulfill Mage’s promise of world-warping potential. Long ago, the Awakened conquered Heaven, and threw every soul into Sleep. That implies they could do it again. Saying otherwise would be a bit of a drag, right?

>>94426428
Both the first and second option.

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People talk a lot about how powerful Lost PCs can get, but how do Dreaming Changelings fare? 2e or 20th, either or. What sort of merits or Arts can take them over the top?

>>94427973
iirc most of their powers were various types of annoying bullshit and ''under x/w/z condition I win".they also had utility power but those were pretty forgetable.

>>94427889
I'd argue that vampires and so on are an artifact of how that happened, that corrupted magic can still be awakened or forced on people to become monsters, and that the Watchtowers are the only remnant of that old world that can still make true humans have the power they were supposed to have. While the other splats are parts of the world of magic expressing themselves into people because there's no other way around it. Vampires are creatures of Death and Mind, Fae of Fate and Time, Werewolves of Life and Spirit. The magic is out there, and became dangerous without minds to guide it. The God-Machine is doing something with it, from it, or to it as well in its ineffable machinations.

>>94428132
God-machine is like rank-7 at most, it's totally fucking irrelevant to the setting.
>Vampires are creatures of Death and Mind
Wrong, they're Death.
>While the other splats are parts of the world of magic expressing themselves into people because there's no other way around it.
Nah, they have actual backstories, even if those backstories not infrequently come down to "one day, a mage made this splat" (e.g. prommie, vampire).

>>94426542
I thought that Lost was about various forms of abuse in general.

At any rate, Vampires aren't STD carriers, but drug addicts with a constant temptation to be dealers, since they're addicted to blood and can turn blood into an addictive drug...

>>94417618
It is curse on my life that the only way i will ever be able to play in a world of darkness game is having to use startplaying.

>>94428162
>Wrong, they're Death.
Most of their external powers manipulate the mind. Dominate, Obfuscate, Majesty, Nightmare

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>>94428491
I wasn't asking

As someone who knows nothing of CoughD, but is "good at this", vampires are incarnations of Death and Mind. Death for obvious reasons, and Mind because of their underpinnings of domination and sin.

>>94428521
You're still wrong.

>>94428132
> Vampires are creatures of Death and Mind
No, they’re undead animated by their Beast and a supernatural curse from God that has absolutely nothing to do with the Spheres.

Mage and Vampire (and all the other splats) are more interesting if those other splats just sit completely outside Mages’ perception of reality and how the universe works. They can be interacted with via Mage’s magic to an extent, but there is a certain point where it just totally breaks down because there are some laws you cannot break, some rules you cannot subvert, and some mysteries you cannot solve.

Also from a meta standpoint, Vampire will always outsell Mage, so Vampire will always be the most important splat, and so any time there’s serious mage-verses-vampire stuff going down the vampires will come out on top. Witness the Week of Nightmares in classic WoD for a great example of this: the Technocracy in a matter of just a few hours went from “for all intents and purposes we have won the war for reality” to “oh fuck oh shit why won’t this thing die fuck the conspiracy it doesn’t matter how many Sleepers see what we’re about to do this needs to end NOW or there won’t BE a world to control.” All over a vampire demigod who was expressly the weakest of the original Antediluvians, who were combined only barely on par with the Second Generation, and all sixteen of them combined couldn’t hold a candle to Caine, who is himself absolutely nothing before God.

The Technocracy was allowed a victory against Zapathasura only because the sheer effort needed to bring him down showcased just how out of their depth they were against the vampire’s demigods and how powerless they’d be to deal with the serious heavy-hitters like Ennoia or Tzimisce.

Since mages will never be able to actually one-up vampires in official material to any real extent, I don’t see the point in allowing that delusion to persist in-universe either.

>>94428736
We were talking about Chronicles, not oWoD. It's all in the setting together in CofD.

>>94427973
Changelings get retardedly strong if they travel into the Deep Dreaming. All their Kith effects get magnified the deeper into the dreaming they are. I think you can create a Troll at character creation that would have like 10 dots of strength in the Deep Dreaming. Also Sidhe basically have permanent Dominate and Presence activated in the Deep Dreaming, you have to make a willpower role to disobey them or act against them in any way.

>>94428763
I get that, but you’re missing the point. Vampire will always be the better-selling splat, so the publishers will always have an incentive for vampires to ultimately come out on top.over any other splat, excepting solely if vampire losing somehow meaningfully benefits Vampire or makes it look good, like how Big Z may have been killed by the Technocracy but the sheer effort involved made it clear that when the biggest guns of the vampires come out, the mages are screwed.

So I don’t see the point of pinning vampires to any given Mage spheres, because given the nature of Mage it gives off the impression that vampires fall into the whole reality-paradigm-etc thing that mages have going on and can ultimately be explained by it and, given the nature of mage players, overcome by it. But that will never actually be the case in a meta sense, so there’s no point in permitting the delusion in-game. And then as long as we’re applying that to Vampire, it should be applied to all the other splats as well. Just put some things outside of Mage’s control.

>>94428824
Vampires are literally the weakest splat in raw power in CofD, and none of that bullshit from oWoD is in the game.

>>94428828
Yeah, sure, I totally agree. They’re absolutely the weakest splat. But they’re also the splat that makes Paradox and Onyx Path and so on the most money. So you can bet your ass that if there were ever some situation where the writers had to screw over Mages or screw over Vampire, they’d screw Gandalf, because any potential monetary loss from Mage fans don’t equal the monetary loss from Vampire fans. The Vampires would pull something out their asses and come out on top, or if they didn’t, it would be in a way that still benefits them more from a meta point of view. So why entertain otherwise?

>>94428888
Why pretend shit that has never been true in either edition, and of which no new books are coming to change that, must be true because you want it to be?

>>94428918
Because it’s the only thing that makes sense.

>>94428933
In your brain.

>>94428888
Because I can rule 0 that shit, my home game is not tied to economic practically.

>>94428963
Sure, but then by that logic I can house rule that Geist is the most powerful splat that wins every fight.

>>94428979
Yes, you could. What's the issue here?

If you don't integrate the natural authority over supernatural creatures that Beasts have into every session, you are houseruling

>>94428985
Nothing. It's just worth bearing in mind that while Mage might win the numbers game, Vampire wins the metagame, and if you want an authentic WoD/CofD experience, you should keep that in mind.

So hypothetically speaking, how fucked would someone be in vampire society if they have autism?

>>94429011
Your authentic CofD experience is whatever you want it to be, because there is no forced metaplot like you seem to think.

You can have Vampire supremacy in your games if that floats your boat, but there's nothing supporting that in the games.

>>94429021
Are you a g*ngrel?

>>94429021
>how fucked would someone be in vampire society if they have autism?
Isn't that like, 2/3rds of the Malks in Masq and half the Mekhet in Req?

>>94429011
Anon, there's no numbers game. It's all made up. The metaplot is something they've written up, but even in splats they directly tell you that you should ignore parts that are inconvenient to whatever story you want to tell. The "authentic" experience is whatever you want to make.

>>94429021
Not overly
>behavioral rigidity
kinda an expectation with vampires
>interoception issues
not really an issue
>hyperfixations
expected
>executive functioning issues
vampires lead logistically simple lives, and autistic people may find it easier to be a vampire than a human
>communication difficulties
definitely a problem

Basically, autistic people could thrive as Gangrel, Nosferatu, Malkavians, and Cappadocians. They'd really struggle as Ventrue, Toreador, Tremere, and Lasombra. Every other clan would have give and take.

Honestly I always figured the attempt at mechanically one-upping vampire was done in an attempt to get people to play those other games. It didn't work usually but I think the idea was to draw in people with cool powers you can't get in vampire.

>>94429021
Sometimes, the Embrace cures autism.

>>94428824
>So you can bet your ass that if there were ever some situation where the writers had to screw over Mages or screw over Vampire, they’d screw Gandalf, because any potential monetary loss from Mage fans don’t equal the monetary loss from Vampire fans.
Lmao
And once again, I quote:
>If this were a different World of Darkness book we’d make an effort to preserve the integrity of the setting against world-breaking elements. If archmages edit the cosmos with impunity, doesn’t that make crossovers with Vampire or Werewolf impossible without chucking those games into a subordinate position? Should we tone it down to give those games room to breathe?
>We decided to let archmages fulfill Mage’s promise of world-warping potential.

>>94429075
Vampire is just kind of boring and lame and broadly a subset of changeling, which is why changeling is in higher demand than it.

>>94429036
>>94429067
I am considering a character who's a washed out jock gangrel, yeah. I'm thinking he would be successful in highschool/college but fell out and became a loser due to myriad of bad choices and unfortunate circumstances, so him having autism may make sense and may give some texture to his interactions. Him having autism would also defintely fit with the common "outsider" archetypes the clan tends to get.

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>>94429246
>washed out jock
>loser
>autist
Perfect!
I can hear the local gangrel fighting over the right to embrace him.

>>94429246
If you want to code it as more than a disability, you could give him a free point of Wits or Composure.

>>94429067
>>94429246
Another example is the Firefall series of fiction. Vampires there are categorically autistic, as they're autistic human mutants.

In VtM, if you circlestrafe the sun you don't fall asleep, right?

>>94429890
You'd either be constantly flying or sitting out in the planetary shadow at the L2 Lagrange Point to do that.

>>94430010
Praapti ••••• is ~965606.4 km/h ~= mach 789 ~= 573.5x as fast as earth's rotation, and you can cut corners through the earth's radius. It's not a problem. It would cost less than one point of blood every half hour.

But I was more asking about overnight flights away from the sun anyway, if you sleep that night or if you get reverse jetlag and gain hours of awareness.

>>94430076
>Praapti
Based Sadhana enjoyer.

>>94429890
Nope, you just get an erratic sleep cycle, judging by the Tal'Mahe'Ra

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>>94429890
you don't fall asleep, but you still need to pay a bloodpoint every 24 hours to stay animated

>>94430101
Imagine getting an NPC utility path whose capstone is a worse-than-regular-melee-attack as your primary path
>This post brought to you by the inventors of blood magic

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Where to?

>>94430351
I played as a taxi driver in this Hunter game and I made a reference saying the exact words. Only one guy got it. What a world.

>>94430376
Did the guy ask you to go to the Giovanni mansion?

Given the open-endedness of both, could the Circle of the Crone worship a piece of God Machine infrastructure they don't fully understand?

I want to have a classic monster in a pit, for the Acolytes to gather about and praise, but I'm not sure how such a concept could be tied to the GM? It could be a broken Angel?

>>94430485
Yeah, I could see that working for an Exile.

>>94430529
Isn't that just a Demon?

My initial concept was a stranded Angel maintaining the heart of a city deep underground. Kindred start praising it, offering sacrifices and all that to it and slowly the Angel and heart start to become vampiric in nature.

>>94430548
>Isn't that just a Demon?
No, there are exiled Angels because the GM just forgets them sometimes. So while they don't fall, most of the time, they aren't in synch with the God Machine.

>>94431492
Ah excellent, I must've missed that.
>the GM just forgets
Tell me about it.

>>94431632
For the cosmic equivalent of a Rube Goldberg machine it has a decent track record.

>>94431697
Small indie god, please understand.

>all the CtL-inspired analog horror seeping out lately
Wonder what caused that.

>>94430351
*hops in with a Spongebob squeak*
>Heck.

>>94432205
Changing and fairy stuff is getting a lot of attention in general. Booktok is full of recommendations of such material.

>>94427973
Like Mages it’s the scale and hanging of effects that makes them silly. Having high Scene or Time Realm allows for shenanigans like turning everyone in a large building into a mouse.

You can't see that someone is possessed (by a spirit/bane) with V20 auspex aura reading, can you? Distressed emotions notwithstanding.

https://youtu.be/sylwyWBvvN4

>>94432205
>Wonder what caused that.
Moon landing.

>>94432205
Wait what
Tell me more. Maybe I can get people to play Changeling with me now.

>Goymer doesn't like Bloodlines
RECLAIM HIS BLOOD NOW

>>94433016
I'd say it's possible. It would essentially be the same shit as detecting a ghost.
That being said, most kindred would have a hard time *interpreting* the fuck they are seeing. They'd be able to tell there's something weird with the victim, but would probably have no idea what's actually going on.

>>94433064
To be honest, >>94432470 is probably right and it's just adjacent and not inspired-by. Sadly it's more off key and doesn't match up thematically, so you're not going to find some bastion of potential new players. Just been stumbling across little bits that match up. Lots of it ends up as extradimensional horror. Like in the analog horror thing named Arcadia, humanity tries to bridge connections to similar worlds only for a third party to intercept and tear the walls down, causing gates to start opening up between Earth and a myriad of different pocket dimensions, most of which have already been eaten by an multiversal corruption and where the few beings left just hate humanity for existing. So take CtL, but have it where the Gentry you're dealing with are the Orz from Star Control 2. And you have an unreliable narration of the timeline and the source of broadcasts, but eventually you have it where you have PSAs that basically go "the fae are real, and if they try to offer you something and you refuse they'll hunt you 30 days before they get bored and fuck off".

>>94433090
But isn't his ultra cool self insert a member of a bloodline?

>>94433141
VtM: Bloodlines, not bloodlines it's obviously contrarian larper bullshit, resenting that he and his loser friends aren't the face of the franchise

>>94433132
But then you have more traditional stuff like Home Safety Hotline, which doesn't necessarily match up with CtL or anything, but it IS hard-themed around traditional fae stuff. So I guess I'd say fae are pretty hot right now. Relatively. Compared to not at all. Seemed like a surge to me, or maybe it's just a local algorithm flip.

>>94433161
Fuck that guy.

>>94433165
Fae have been hot for the last 20 years.

>>94433131
>It would essentially be the same shit as detecting a ghost.
Why? Seeing a spirit that's floating in free space would be different from seeing a ghost that's inside a box, which you can't do because you can't see through walls. Mages have (from Spirit)
>Combined with other Spheres, that mage can spot forces, places, or items with unusual ties to the spirit world, such as Awakened objects, elemental spirits, possessed organisms, Shallowings, Nodes, and so forth.
But critically: mages with the right spheres can see through walls. This is the thing that I don't think vampires can do. Neither animalism nor dominate possession make any sort of comment of any shape. W20 doesn't seem to have any information as far as I can see, nor book for the wyrm (for W20, anyway).
The notes on demons in V20 (pg. 387) do lead me to think that you can see them when they're inside someone
>Some do this by transforming their hosts, while others are able to temporarily project themselves outside their bodies or reliquaries. Powers like Aura Perception can reveal this form to curious Kindred.

>They'd be able to tell there's something weird with the victim, but would probably have no idea what's actually going on.
If you can physically see the spirit if you succeed with the seeing-the-unseen roll against it then 99.999% of vampires would just assume you've been possessed by a demon. This feels like a kind of stupid answer because I'd have thought it'd show up in the aura, but I guess if you can make the roll you just see the spirit itself?

>>94433353
When using Aura reading to "see" a ghost, you are not seeing the ghost itself. You are not even necessarily "seeing" something (you can "hear" an aura, for example).
You are detecting its aura and interpreting that through your normal senses. That's why you have to interpret what you are sensing, just like any normal aura reading. It's not going to show you an evil ghost "behind" someone or anything like that.

Sensing the aura of ghost/spirit possessing someone is also not the same as seeing a spirit inside a box.

>but anon, i want to see the spirit directly
Funny, the rules are not 100% clear on that. Aura perception talks about showing you the fucking aura and that's it. The "seeing the unseen" chart talks about "detecting" a being, not seeing it. Dark Ages does talk about "seeing" a ghost, but no specifics.
The way I always interpreted this: vampires can see the aura of a ghost, but not ghosts themselves (at least without another specific power).

>>94433511
>>but anon, i want to see the spirit directly
I never said anything like this. I don't "want" to see the spirit directly. That is how it works - unequivocally - for demons. The only relevant passage in any of the core books (which got edited in half in my prior post, but you could easily of checked the page number of absolute raging homofaggot subhuman nigger):
>Demons can take on apocalyptic forms that show their true nature, and which manifest monstrous traits like wings, horns, and claws. Some do this by transforming their hosts, while others are able to temporarily project themselves outside their bodies or reliquaries. Powers like Aura Perception can reveal this form to curious Kindred.
>Powers like Aura Perception can reveal this form to curious Kindred.
>this form
You see the demon as a demon. Not a question.

>You are detecting its aura and interpreting that through your normal senses. That's why you have to interpret what you are sensing
That is how senses work, yes.
>(you can "hear" an aura, for example).
You cannot. Kill yourself, keep your homebrew to your own bedroom. Nobody needs to see that.
>Sensing the aura of ghost/spirit possessing someone is also not the same as seeing a spirit inside a box.
Sure, one has rules (you can't see a spirit inside a box), the other doesn't (there are no rules for detecting ghost possession besides the most permissive possible reading of not-clash-of-wills).
>That's why you have to interpret what you are sensing, just like any normal aura reading.
This has literally nothing to do with whether or not you sense anything.
>you have to interpret
There is nothing to interpret. The language of auras is extremely straightforward, it's a matter of what you can and can't see.
>The way I always interpreted this
Keep your homebrew to yourself. If someone asks a rules question, and you don't know - just don't fucking answer.

>>94433549
>You cannot. Kill yourself, keep your homebrew to your own bedroom. Nobody needs to see that.
V20DA page 195-196
I won't lose more time with you.

>Wraith finally got attention
>it was in the form of a hardware-mandatory VR game
What a cursed game.

>>94433090
Really? As in he dislikes it outright? Not that he's got a few issues with it, but he thinks its a bad game?

Damn how bad can one man's taste be.

>>94433646
At least you have the dignity of a good game. Werewolf has Heartblood or whatever.

>>94433709
He said it really falls off after Downtown (which is true), thus bad (cringe hyperbole) and that he dislikes Pisha being Nagaraja because it's too deeplore. Basically, he doesn't like that it doesn't resemble his image of VtM from larping.

>>94433713
I'm not even invested in Wraith. But yeah. It got the better game. It's just that, much like the TTRPG, nobody will play it.

>>94433734
>he dislikes Pisha being Nagaraja because it's too deeplore
He said the exact opposite

>>94433734
Bloodlines doesn't truly fall off until you're done with Chinatown and enter the linear mission zone. The sewers suck but the rest of Hollywood is good.

I got some gripes with Bloodlines both as a game and a WoD product but I'm not gonna pretend it isn't the greatest WoD game ever made.

>>94433713
Werewolf also has HtR: Redeemer.

>>94433646
Samuel haight probably cursed all of wraith when it turned him into an ashtray

>>94434315
>Samuel Haight
Was there ever a final verdict on if he was supposed to be a joke character or not? I think the claim he was a gag is absolute revisionism.

>>94434481
He wasn't originally. Then the writers decided to use him to mock the kind of players who wanted to be a bit of everything at once, but due to the time they wrote it, he was taken deathly seriously by not only the people he was made to take the piss out of, but by the whole community

Just read the blurbs they wrote for the books were he appeared in. It was a joke, especially the "triumphant last stand" bit where he got dick slapped straight to hell, it's just that the people hearing the joke took every bit of it seriously cause the sort of over the top 90s anti hero they made him into was still popular at the time

I personally think he was also meant, at least on a crunch level, as an example of how to blend the splats according to the rules, considering he didn't actually break any of the internal rules, he was just a werewolf who ghouled himself and picked up a magic sword that let him use shitty sorcery.

And of course before they made him the ULTIMATE BADASS he was just a small time werewolf antagonist thrown in to explain how skindancers became a thing

>>94434170
He said that no one would care about the Nagaraja if it wasn't for Pisha (not true) and that, while he doesn't wish she was a Setite or Ravnos or larger group (he does), the Nagaraja are practically invisible in the setting (not an actual criticism). Accept his IQ fell out with his hair.

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Has anyone here used mermaids in a chronicle?
I saved a story time of a WW2 Hunter game where they were a thing in my old computer but it doesn't work at the moment.

>>94433573
>V20DA page 195-196
No need to go that far

V20 page 484, Blind

>>94433090
... who?

>>94435223
>I saved a story time of a WW2 Hunter game where they were a thing in my old computer

I think that was mine. So yes technically.

>>94433573
You've linked to a different game that just says that I'm right, once again? Congrats?

Why did Sorcerer's Crusade fail? It's a fun setting.

>>94437240
White wolfs part in “designers and dragons 90s” talks about it, but in short It lost white wolf money because of over expansion as the book calls it. You see white wolf decided to spawn 4 spin off lines (dark age vampire, werewolf the wild west, mage the sorcerer crusade and wraith the great war) in as many years AND started “the year of” trend where they would need atleast 1 book for each line despite the fact that some of their game lines also still weren’t making money which is why wraith got fully canceled sorcerer crusade, werewolf wild west and ctd got moved to a smaller imprint house to save cost and give those games a chance before that got also canned and kote followed later

The book even goes so far to say that from an line created between 1994 to 1998 only dark age vampire moved books

It’s on anyflip if you want to give it a read

>>94437455
>started “the year of” trend where they would need atleast 1 book for each line
Dark Ages didn't get a Year of the Lotus release. Neither did Mage. You could count Blood & Silk and Dragons of the East, but those came out years later.
Most people played Dark Ages like a fantasy game, Sorcerer's Crusade was even more fantastic. Mage being the second most popular WoD game should have made it a success. I understand why Werewolf Wild West failed (even though it's a great setting) and Wraith the Great War wasn't so much a new line as a supplement for the base game (which was ended due to how niche it was).
I have the designers and dragons books from a Humble Bundle, so I'll give it a read later.

>>94437474
Wraith the great war was meant to be a historical setting it’s just a stillborn one because it and it’s parent game already been on the way out

Sadly white wolf didn’t learn from this and immediately tried to launch one and a half more game lines (kote and mummy resurrection) after having to cancel or move several because if the book is to be believed they just wanted to no matter if it sold or not

New thread.
>>94438141
>>94438141
>>94438141