>>96879167
Those black friday massacres of '99, Y2k, '06, and 2012.

If I told my players during a session that Pentex cooked up a new demoralization campaign against woofs by having a popular and influential entertainment figure mistreat his dog for years in front of thousands, keep it in one place for hours on end and giving it an electric shock when it moves so much as an inch right on stream and get away with it all? They'd tell me it's way too edgy and totally implausible because nobody's so pointlessly petty and evil, and nobody would ever get away with such a thing. But here we are.

Fuck the TQ, keep arguing about Changeling.

Any plans for game night today lads? Gonna dress up as your character?

>>96879164
>What's haunting your sin against the divine this holiday?
We have to stop a monster eerily similar to the Krampus from kidnapping and eating the kids around the neighborhood.

>>96879221
Maybe new players. Players that know lore would say that's not enough for a Pentex backed streamer. Think bigger and more obvious for influencers.

>>96879202
All temporary setbacks, everything is back to normal.

>>96879167
>Pentex winning is werewolf sex slaves
Damn, perhaps this Wyrm individual is on to something

>>96879239
I struggle to imagine how you could make it more evil and obvious.

>>96879221
>>96879239
You'd think a full on Pentex-backed streamer would be doing Wolf Mukbang instead of shocking a dog into submission

Man, I love working for Pentex.

>>96879221
We get it, you are terminally online. You needed to do this in two threads?

>>96879276
But if he doesn't bring politics to every thread, how is he supposed to post in threads about games he doesn't play?

>>96879276
>>96879283
Uh oh, the animal cruelty fandom found the thread!

>>96879260
There’s always a subsidiary hiring near you, anon

>>96879268
Alright your probationary period is over, congratulations. We need your soul for something, sign here please.

>>96879265
>actual killing
>eating ze dog
>shovel doggo
>casual abuse (obvious)
>pug

>>96879265
Terribly obvious findom e-girl streamer that gets more gratuitous gore alerts as her popularity rises. To the point where her fans get "attractiveness" aggression and end up killing themselves in tribute to her. She ends up encouraging it, passively, because fans can see the passion in her gaze when someone shoots themselves in front of her at a con. And also, it's "purer" and "safer" than the vanilla sexy e-girl act. Eventually has snuff watching parties on her stream sent in by loyal fans. Those that are her best piggies get access to "dark net" vids of her hosting orgies involving hyenas that slowly slip out into the wider net. She's still an e-girl after all though her odd bouts of laughter are strangely endearing.

>>96879289
More like founded the thread. If you aren't down with kicking puppies then you're in the wrong place.

>>96879314
>pug
Ah-hah. Hahaha.
https://youtu.be/IbKEKtsvt1I

>>96879329
>kicking dogs
No, no, anon. No. We don't do lasting damage to the sex toys. We're not animals.

File: Pentex_environment.png (371 KB, 724x444)

371 KB PNG

>>96879267
Oh Junior, you're young and you just got started in this department. You've got so much to learn. It's a masterstroke of psychological warfare, you see. Still skeptic? Here, I'll explain since we're on break and I'm nice like that. We take the spiritual brothers-slash-cousins of our enemy, the Garou. Then we make them into pets to be bought and sold. Commodities. Still with me, skippy? Right, now we take that up a notch and give one to this dickhead, whassisname. We let him treat the dog like a little piece of decoration, force it to stay in the same spot without moving for hours on end, under threat of an electric shock. We don't just tame this embodiment of nature's power and savagery, we reduce it to a cute little prop for some narcissistic twat to make money off of, i.e. a commodity. And we break its spirit too, that's always fun. All on camera for everyone to see. Semiotic terrorism, I think I heard the boys in marketing calling it. Everyone who protests gets banned, so the consensus is molded. Now we let it come to light, and have our other media assets defend him. The fuzzy-wuzzies meanwhile see their spiritual brother tortured and reduced to an object, and they can't do anything about it without being painted as the bad guy. It's all about public perception, my boy.

Anyway, break's almost over. See you after hours for tennis?

>>96879365
Sure boss thanks.

You know it's a tourist because he thinks Garou feel a kindred connection with dogs in the first place when in reality it's the opposite.

>>96879418
Yeah, wouldn't Garou consider dogs to be a Weaver perversion of wolves?

>>96878820
CtL can be saved from your obsession with abuse trauma fixation with one simple trick. Changelings dont always get kidnapped to be abused but to be surrogate children of the Fae. So you can be a faerie princess or a horned hound bounty hunter or a enslaved troll or whatever. Takes hardly any effort to change it.

>plot twist: it wasn't a dog, it was actually a garou in lupus form all along

>>96879444
You're thinking too small. It wasn't even a garou. It was a boy shapeshifted into a dog by the lads in R&D

File: Pentex_results.png (895 KB, 541x723)

895 KB PNG

Speaking of Pentex, what are some schemes they might have hatched for the Halloween season that the PC werewolves have to stop?

>>96879428
They do, but dog spirits are still aligned with Gaia which means that they’re still under the garou’s protection (for better or worse). Besides, the majority of the woofs oppose animal cruelty as principle anyway, only Red Talons would be okay with letting dogs suffer because they are considered too Weaver corrupted

>>96879428
Yup, Red Talons in particular fucking hate dogs, they're seen as yet another abomination caused by humans. Maybe Bone Gnawers would feel some pity for them, but that's about it. The rest would be at best neutral, they'd be against animal abuse in general but it has nothing to do with dogs.

>>96879265
Releasing a virus to fuck over the market & push governments to enact more anarchotyranny sounds like a start

>>96879442
I really hope you understand that kidnapping children is abusive..

>>96879442
As I understand it, the Gentry, as a rule, cannot understand human emotion beyond hollow emulation. If they understand human emotion, they cease being members of the Gentry. Not sure how correct that is.
>>96879463
Christmas decorations in August and the radio playing Mariah Carey on Halloween.

>>96879470
The pork market is cooking one up as we speak. Swine Flu 2027 is going to be a doozy. But more bacon.

>>96879470
I think you got turned around, Mike. Pentex Medical's on the third floor.

>>96879463
Halloween party night, sponsored by Kings! Mixing in pills in every packet of sweets, market it as a golden ticket sort of thing. The fake pumpkins they sell occasionally let the tiny candlelight inside free to burn the surrounding grass. And of course, banefire halloween decorations (Green and blue fire is COOL)

>>96879470
Ah, 2020.

>>96879467
I wonder if there's anything stopping dog garou from existing

>>96879463
New release of Lycanthrope: The Rapture (it’s so badly written it drives fans to suicide)

>>96879463
Why be beholden to werewolves alone?
The boys in R&D got their hands on some of that thick red paste those pale corporate types like and you know what? It's a pretty yummy food substitute. They've been working on turning it into an energy supplement since it helps to keep one spirited. And with the holiday around the corner, they've branched out into making a candy to get the young'uns started early.
Shame the only known source of this thick red paste seems to /be/ the pale corpos but, well, that's what the boys down in Mergers&Acquisitions are for.

>>96879486
>As I understand it, the Gentry, as a rule, cannot understand human emotion beyond hollow emulation. If they understand human emotion, they cease being members of the Gentry. Not sure how correct that is.
Pretty much. They know something is fundamentally missing from their existence, which is why they kidnap and convert humans to "fill a role" within their Arcadia, but they can't understand what it is that's missing.

Any ideas as to how I can convince my bosses to give me more funding? We're gonna make a monster hunter game. You know the drill, kill monsters like werewolves and suach, upgrade your gear, get paid. It sounds a bit generic, I know. That's why we're gonna add a social element to it. You'll need to do some investigating since the monsters will disguise themeselves. Some missions will be a simple "go here a kill things" kind of thing but others will involve stealth or can be completed if your skills are high enough (convince the local government to help, etc). Also, how should the protag start out? I was gonna make him / her a lone survivor of a logging crew. Later down the line you find out that there's a secret society of hunters that runs a big company in order to finance their fight.

>>96879522
Technically nothing, some of the Bone Gnawers already have some dog features

>>96879479
Bro what the fuck do you think a changeling is? Either your a kidnap victim or a faerie sleeper agent. None of those are good things. Vampires are a goddamn rape allegory go bitch about that for a while! Wraiths are fucking dead. Werewolves are child soldiers. None of the PCs in WoD should be squeaky clean every single one was a victim, or complicit. Youre a fucking monster, you learn to move on.

File: Capture.png (416 KB, 256x720)

416 KB PNG

Are you guys ready for the traditional transfer of power to the Unseelie Court this Samhain night?

>>96879524
Another win for Black Dog, baby!

>>96879538
Throw in the bones of romance, the execs eat that up since they think it's easy profits and the fans will make what they want afterwards.

>>96879522
Garou being wolves specifically, for starters. A weredog would probably be a Pentex mockery breed, an affront to nature. There's also the Dog totem, but it's canonically scorned because it prohibits harming humans, only the biggest goody two shoes of Garou would even consider it.

>>96879544
Calling a Bone Gnawer a dog would still be an insult.

File: 1733326486547695.jpg (149 KB, 538x728)

149 KB JPG

>>96879463
Mass produced costumes with wifi receivers concealed in the tags. They'll coordinate to download banes all at once and start converting kids' brains into roaches and centipedes, a fraction surviving to become an instant army of short Hollow Men fomori.

>>96879546
It is funny watching you have this same meltdown every time you have to admit that yes, the central theme of Changeling the Lost is abuse.

>>96879567
>Pentex mockery
Think of where the Dog totem shows up. It'd be the work of Shinzui forward thinking that would led to weredogs. Guardians of human but with less of that incompetent rage.
Forever on a leash

>>96879568
A trick on the children!

>>96879552
>traditional transfer of power
I can't wait to wake up in the morning and still have the Seelie baron in power like he is every year. You Unseelie losers need to learn, there will be no Winter as long as we keep Eternal Spring.

>>96879584
Mother works in subtle ways. Her intelligence and patience are greatest strenghts. It's only a matter of time untill Shinzui buys Pentex out.

>>96879538
Add microtransactions and pre-order DLC. And day-one DLC. And season passes. And...

Do Verbena drink blood? They should drink blood tonight.

>>96879486
Im not a big fan of the lore behind the Gentry. I like the premise of being a person kidnapped by the Fae or someone who stumbled into the Hedge & survived but was forever changed. The whole Narrative power of the fae & how Gentry are some huge presence in everything because of a TITLE or a STORY or whatever is stupid fart sniffing 80% of the time. I want the Fae (not the Gentry) to be somewhere between Shakespeare, Hellboy 2, & Labyrinth. I want Changelings to be how Fae make more Fae. Once you become too much a part of Faerie, you stop being human & you cant have kids. So you might occasionally steal one so that you can raise them as your own. Maybe as a successor, or as a pet, or a slave I dont care. But I don't want Chagelings to always be scared of the Fae Lords & Ladies finding them & bringing them back/killing them. I want them to go to troll markets & getting wrapped up in faerie politics. Now i have a problem with the way some people treat Titles. But I do think sometimes Titles should be a thing. Like in Dresden Files, a "mantle" is an unchanging thing that shifts your personality & comes with a lot of power & rules

>>96879615
They're gonna do more than drink blood tonight. They're gonna see so many technocrats at the devil's sacrament tonight.

>>96879576
Im somebody new retard. Just thought id weigh in

>>96879584
Yeah that'd work even better. Regardless of which way it'd go, Garou would continue to hate dogs.

>>96879615
Verbena do more than just drink it.

O could have sworn Pentex has dog soldier mockeries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJckCjZ8Tdw
splat for this feel?

>>96879634
They made those war wolves that hunt kin and can't shift?

>>96879623
Now it's time to weigh out, new-boy.

>>96879568
Why conceal it?
Advertise it as a "Halloween Network" fad where all the kids get to unlock special effects on their Tiktok dances if they wear a chipped costume.
Kids are gonna be all over that shit. They'd be fighting over the collectable costumes.

>>96879463
Juicy, succulent fat asses on wide birthing hips that bring a whole new meaning to full moon.

>>96879634
You're probably thinking of war wolves, which I think can be made from dogs but nobody really considers them weredogs.

>>96879615
No, drinking blood is more of a Hollow Ones and House Tytalus thing
The Verbena prefers to bath in blood instead. It helps with seducing wandering Red Talons

>>96879616
Is Dresden Files worth getting into? Never read any of them.

>>96879659
>Red Talon getting aroused by a hum*n
Pentex slander

>>96879661
>Is Dresden Files worth getting into?
No.

>>96879676
Oh, don’t underestimate the witches, brother. They can get into your mind with their wyrmish ways easily if you’re not careful. Stay away from the weird female humans dancing far from their filthy cities, and remember that not every bitch in heat soaked in human blood is actually a wolf

>>96879661
I think so, but you should decide for yourself, I don't know your preferences

>>96879646
You're the expert on outweighing things faggot

>>96879676
Extensive studies and surveillance have confirmed these claims to be true. As we have previously though, reality deviants (commonly refered to as werewolves) lack the necessary brain power to properly analyse certain situations involving mystics.

i really want to play vtm

>>96879676
This seems like the abusive relationship WoD players enjoy

>>96879711
>t. willingly goes back to the druid shack every week

>>96879761
>Dude, she can turn into an actual wolf, and with a bit of effort she can look like the war form. It's like all of the good parts of making a metis without any of the bad parts! What could possibly go wrong!
>Brother, she will cut off your balls and use them as potion ingredients.

>>96879776
>She just needs cum and if she gets it out, she's earned it.
>My balls are safe.

>>96879776
>Sure she might be buying a suspicious amount of silver but she says she loves me
>She says it's just for roleplay purposes

>>96879727
And I just outweighed your ass to the curb.

>>96879789
>You should learn Rending the Craft, you know, for uh....roleplay purposes or something.

File: Cheiron Group.jpg (124 KB, 500x824)

124 KB JPG

>>96879776
Hey, we've heard of your...research. We've got a proposition fot you.

>>96879796
You broke the curb because youre fat

>>96879616
>I want Changelings to be how Fae make more Fae.

Literally how it is.
At Clarity 0 Wyrd 10 means you're basically new Gentry.

>I want them to go to troll markets & getting wrapped up in faerie politics

Also how it is, because that's the new nature of each changeling and, really, there's no way to get back to what you once were and now you long for fae shit too. Always somewhat risky tho, because you're putting yourself out there to be noticed again.

>>96879772
…she gave me bellyrubs after sex

I would like to call The Arcanum out for being lazy bookworm faggots. They're undeserving of being called hunters. They refuse to share useful knowledge, can't actually hunt and get in the way of more competent groups. I bet they work together with monsters and witches.

>>96879801
>But then we can't get it on in the war form anymore and I'm sure that would be sad

>>96879833
>Gaia's mightiest warriors after bellyrubs and dog treats

>>96879849
>No man it's like your safeword. Just swipe at the witch if she tries anything funny. Or like, at least get hooked up with that Silver Fang bastard nearby for Luna's Armour or whatever those prissy fucks have. Wouldn't your bitch like it if you could take MORE silver at once?

>>96879164
That picture is awesome.
>fuck these tiles, they’re cookies now

Is this what playing Mage is like?
How would you translate this into Mage?

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/dW7sb27xheQ

File: mindblown.gif (1.69 MB, 220x220)

1.69 MB GIF

>mfw the secret to making peace with the Red Talons was belly rubs and nobody ever considered it
>it was right in front of us the entire time

>>96879833
You wag your tail too? Whore

>>96879879
Scratching werewolf bellies is kind of gay

>>96879818
And I broke you because of the same reason.

>>96879862
>I don't want to give her any more ideas

>>96879879
>>96879887
>It's like scratching a big dog
>Except when you fuck up you lose your face

>>96879869
Chip is a Nephandi infiltrator who is trying to kidnap the chlidren, but has been discovered. Garrison is a Technocrat who infiltrated the same group and calls in backup from an Void Engineer satellite to destroy him.

>>96879879
There's just one problem with this argument
Red Talons can assume homid form. They can rub THEIR OWN BELLIES

>>96879931
They don't want you to know! That one shocking truth

File: Small_Soldiers_cover.png (690 KB, 455x643)

690 KB PNG

>when Avalon's latest pet project spins out of control and escapes containment

How hard would it actually be to kill the Pentex board of directors? Aren’t most of them just normal guys without any powers?

>>96879961
How hard would it actually be to cut off the head of a hydra?

>>96879961
Probably easier than it looks. One of their execs got smoked by some Italian dude with a back injury and a 3D-printed gun. Woofs are just retarded and incompetent.

>>96879931
Doesn’t work because:
1) your brain knows you’re doing it to yourself and doesn’t enjoy it as if someone else was doing it (similar reason why you can’t tickle yourself)
2) Red Talons HATE homid form and only shift to it when strictly necessary
3) it doesn’t hit the same when you don’t have soft fur

>>96879961
>most of them normal guys
Depends on how you view it. Some elder vampires might have ghouls. Alongside with Syndicate involvement. Nephandi themselves and of course, good old Banes and BSD

>>96879880
SHE IS PERSUASIVE

>>96879961
Pentex itself? Probably fomori or bsd already
A subsidiary though it's probably fairly easy they just replaced instantly

>>96879931
>>96879979
What if they assume the footbro form and then just tickle themselves that way? Anyway
>Red Talons HATE homid form
Stacking evidence that Matilda being a Red Talon is just a red herring (heh)

>>96879987
>Gaia's most "racist" tribe discovering how wolves were domesticated
Yeah I bet she was, slut

>>96879869
I miss when South Park was this fun.

>>96879987
I bet. Did you huff her butt while she called you a good boy?

I am not scratching another man’s hairy belly

>>96879832
I want less paranoia over the Gentry. More politics within the fae. Not just freeholds

>>96879895
Ha. Youre fat. Im fine btw, youve got issues

>>96879961
Yeah bro, just storm their fortress they call an office and kill these dudes (ignore the fact they'll be replaced in two days)

>>96880033
What if it's a woman's hairy belly (forma de dog)

>>96879961
Did you learn nothing from Luigi? They hire a new CEO within hours & then sue the company for being lenient in the face of their CEO dying

>>96880038
Have some once in a generation treasure being discovered and in a show of cooperation, envoys are being sent to nearby freehold to share in the joy.

>>96879961
Come on, do it! I need to advance my career somehow and all the seats are taken for now.

>>96880014
>>96880031
“Go on the internet” he said. “You’ll see humans aren’t that bad” he said. By Gaia I thought it was safe since he’s an Utkena, this is the last time I trust a “technoshaman”

>>96880072
You're not welcome here, deviant. Go back to pissing on fire hydrants or whatever it is that you do all day.

>>96880061
This a trail to some treasure?

File: immagine[1].png (252 KB, 467x335)

252 KB PNG

>Werewolf raid into Arcadia
For whatever reason. Entertain me.

Too bad my favorite takes on the two (WtA and CtL) don't mix so I guess the thing would be about Uratha and disregard potential Fianna shenanigans and whatnot

>>96880072
>Trusting Ghost Council
That's your first mistake brother. You'll see someday though
>not all humans

>>96880097
Just jury rig the setting together or wait till Dreaming 5 which is just going to be CtL but without the same cool shit that made it engaging

>>96880072
She at least took your knot right?

>>96880097
Just handwave some bullshit about BSD attacking Arcadia because it'd weaken the Wyld, or some shit like that.

>>96880097
Why...why wouldn't they mix? Woofs try to cross the gauntlet in the wrong place at the wrong time and end up in the hedge. Decide to kill everything in sight after one of the lampposts talks to them and begs to be saved.

>>96880097
Woofs encountering Briarwolves would be an interesting hypothetical.

>>96880142
Fucking weaver drones man.

>>96880112
I figured a fellow lupus would be above such deceit. Still, I’m not fully averse to changing my stance on humans
>>96880125
She did, why is that relevant?

>>96880153
Nice, make the second most menhera woofs alive with the witch. In the name of Gaia, of course.

>>96880162
>why is that relevant
Nothing. Just good job, sounds like you found a good one. I bet she'd appreciate you sticking your snout between her legs next time.

>>96880142
Anon, he’s talking about Changeling: the Lost, not Changeling: the Dreaming. Mixing a oWoD with a CofD splat isn’t going to be a simple task

>>96880097
It would be evil to invade and harvest gnosis for your wars already in progress. So BSDs or Pentex should do that, then Garou Nation can follow to fight those, and they'll still feel like good guys when they get annoyed at the native troll dolls and start responsibly protecting assets themselves.

An archmage of Fate 9, as his Magnum Opus (‘suicidal hatred against fairytales’), decides to introduce a Wyrd eating virus into the Hedge and by extension Arcadia in order to “torture the fae for all eternity”, since the Wyrd takes bizarre directions in time—meaning the torture will never stop. Ever.

How do the collective Gentry fight back?

>>96880210
Slide the target recipient back to the mage through definition. Consequently, to the arch mage's fuck up, now all fate mages are targets

>>96880210
Provide nine examples of how this archmage's hubris bit him in the ass in meaningful ways throughout his existence as a mage.

>>96880210
>drag the mage through the Thorns which strips him of his power
>make him a changeling
>punt him into a pocket dimension just before they allow the spell to go off
>seal the pocket dimension away leaving him alone in it
>make a snowglobe broadcasting his screams and put it on the dinner table to serve as entertainment for tonight's gala

>>96880186
Yeah it likely won't, though given how H5 is styled quite heavily after Vigil's popularity we can probably expect a Changeling 5 to be like Lost I think. Would take a lot of work to mix them though

>>96880162
>Average lupus autism
This is why you get tricked by Ghost Council so easily. Happens to everyone though, the humans call these "the eternal jews" or something like that

>>96880173
I’m… not sure I want to know what “menhera” means
>>96880182
I guess so, though I’m not sure she wants to be a permanent mate or just a casual thing. I’m still confused about how humans treat sex

Goddamn I want to play/run V20 so bad. Give me a good idea for a max 5 session short game I could run for my local ttrpg community.

>>96880265
This anon Fae's. Complete with the cunty Greek-styled punishments and everything

>>96880287
Anons have propositioned before the module where you play a group that wakes up in a lab unsure of who their sire is and they try to work from there to figure out what they are and how they got there, seems shortish. Alternatively, you could be trying to investigate a Masquerade breach in an attempt to get into the Prince's good graces from a previous fuck up and end up dealing with a local hunter org. I imagine simple things like that

>>96880290
When you gotta answer the question of "What would the True Fae do?" it's not enough to say they fuck you over, there's got to be that vile ironic twist for their amusement.

>>96880279
>Witches permanent mates
Be careful you don't end up organ harvested and experimented on

>>96880279
You're probably safe in treating it as a casual thing since it's Verbena. Just kinda maybe let her set the initial pace while keeping talks up. Also ignore the weird talk about Mother. She's just talking about Luna for her spellwork

>>96880038
Then just talk with your ST and do things that way. I don't get why most of /wodg/ seem to treat CtL like the only way to play it is as a hyper-cautious Winter courtier.

>>96880336
>Ghost Council hands shadow wrote this post

>>96880371
Shut the fuck up! A pup is asking questions for once. I'll fucking ring your neck myself if this stops others from seeking answers.

>>96880336
All I understood about her work is that she’s planning to burn down some wyrmish place that makes medicine. And some ramblings about her father not understanding her. Shouldn’t fathers be the ones who understand the cubs the most?

>>96880439
>Grown Red Talon being seduced by a W*tch
>spoiler
Yeah right, this is why the younger Garou don't listen to elders anymore

>>96880450
You'd think so but some fathers are defiled by the wyrm in subtle ways. That don't become apparent until an incubation period has past. It's hard to spot until it's already been done or you've experience with similar corruptions.

>>96879365
Sir, I know you're busy but we have recorded an uptake in lupine activity here. Could we receive additional support from First Team?

>>96880462
Quiet Hyena. Don't you have a corpse to fuck with, or is it too early in the day for that?

>>96880475
True, it’s always sad when your kin falls to the Wyrm. It cuts like silver when it happens
>>96880462
Why is there distrust of Great Utkena’s wolves. I know their methods are unusual, but they possess great wisdom.
Also, I heard about the tribe’s name change, but a Get of Fenris theurge that visited the sept said I should refuse to accept because “it spreads weakness and tolerance of Wyrm corruption in the name of diversity” or something like that

>>96880557
Too early, the sauces aren't done yet

>>96880450
>>96880475
How do you do the Verbena "homeopathic healer nature witch" archetype in Awakening?

>>96880668
Would it not be a Thyrsus mage, maybe adjacent to Katsinam Suukya, or Dreamspeaker. Imagineer could probably be spun that way to.

File: immagine[1].png (921 KB, 555x895)

921 KB PNG

>>96880152
I have a whole thing about some dude freaking out and getting their First Change as they're being taken by the Fae or at the early, early stages of their Durance, slaughtering the everloving fuck of whatever is around, and getting out of Arcadia but hopelessly lost in the Hedge until they're picked up by (Summer?) changelings and stick around with them long enough to come back to actual civilization and come into the Garou Nation. Gets the ironic moniker "Briarwolf", some dots in Allies and it would be cool to get stag antlers stuck on at least one form (there's a viable BSD gift for the crunch of that) from the whole ordeal, also because it would be a pretty fun narrative challenge to have such a feature in the ultra-conservative Garou Nation, and while not being a Metis.

I know mixing splats as a character origin is marysue-ish normietude of the greatest order but what can I say, it's a fun idea. Then by any change have an entirely canonical WW chronicles.

Problem is, again, that it is mixing oWoD and nWoD

>>96880050
And your issue is me, weigh-out.

>>96880729
That does sound like a fun backstory anon. There's some translation stuff between v20 and CofD ain't there? If so you could probably just directly lift the Changeling story stuff and slot it in, especially if it won't be a consistent major player.

>>96880354
The books dont do a great job of giving that impression. Not to mention there is a surprisingly large amount of people who think that the Gentry are above every other splat in powerlevel even above Archmages & stuff essentially telling you thats its a no win scenario &;you being free is just because they want you to think that. They also rely heavily on having the Gentry sending out goons all the time to force drama or because they cant think of any good plot points

>>96880729
Reminds me of "Old Jack" and NPC in a CofD game i ran. Hes a former promethean, stigmatic, dhampyr, wolfblooded, fae touched, yaya. All the minor templates stacked on him.

>>96881057
>The Chronicles' unluckiest man

>>96880306
Thanks. I really like both of those ideas.

>>96881041
In the first edition, the Gentry were ridiculously high up there in terms of power level and the power attributed to them by the narrative. None of the courts had the right answer and basically the only way to deal with even one Keeper was for the entire freehold to work together to deal with them. You're right about in being a no-win scenario back when.
In the second edition, a late-game motley of Lost can take on one of the Gentry on their own as the climax of a chronicle, and all of the courts have a correct approach to handling Keepers. Also, the inclusion of huntsmen allows the second edition to ramp up the intensity more gradually, rather than going from "your Keeper doesn't give a shit about you, chill out" to "your Keeper is coming, prepare your asshole."

While the second edition makes the Gentry less terrifying and the stages of grief allegory of the courts a lot weaker, the courts are actually effective and not just a source of infighting and the Lost have a whole lot more agency than they had in the first edition. The second edition really dials back the "misery porn" and is a lot more playable as a game, at the cost of losing a lot of the dread and allegorical meaning of the first edition. More playable, less artistic.

>>96880583
It's good you're there for her. The shoulder offered in comfort today leads to the strong allies of tomorrow.
As for Fenris were they a Garm? Cause it sounds like, and Gaia forgive me, a child of Laufey is having a giggle by spreading that talk.

>>96880668
>>96880714
I think it depends on the execution. If she's working to make those magical homeopathic remedies more accessible to the common man that's Free Council. If she's investigating the mysteries of homeopathic medicine for its own sake, that's Mysterium. Dunno about the other Orders. Thyrsus is the only fitting Path though.

Are SI spooks just as ignorant about vamps as normal hunters? They seem too focused on vamp workings to catch side stuff.

>>96880354
>I don't get why most of /wodg/ seem to treat CtL like the only way to play it is as a hyper-cautious Winter courtier.
Because that's the "smart play" when knowing you're hopelessly outmatched, and making sub-par choices for the narrative's sake ("Oh yeah, I'll risk Clarity and Discovery because [whatever the context is] is a temptation that my Changeling nature wouldn't be able to resist"] requires investement in your PC, your Chronicle, etc, all things that you don't have when you're discussing the general vibe of the setting in the void of /wodg/.

>>96881041
>Not to mention there is a surprisingly large amount of people who think that the Gentry are above every other splat in powerlevel even above Archmages & stuff essentially telling you thats its a no win scenario

In they hometurf, they basically are. But that's because in their hometurf, THEY ARE in a biblical sense.
The point is not getting into their hometurf, which granted that they leave it (rare but possible) leaves them powerful but not omnipotent.

>>96881092
That was kind of his theme, yeah. He had been around for a long time, couldnt seem to die, & always was a magnet for trouble. He did have an eternally young hot wife & a cool magic knife. So he had that going for him. He REALLY wanted to just live a simple life, but always seemed like a magnet for trouble & big events, mostly as a bystander though, he was never the hero, but always... around in one way or another when momentous shit went down. He felt like God wanted him to be a witness, a living chronicle of things. He would occasionally mentor people here & there. He helped out the PCs more than a little.

>>96881393
They shouldn't be. They should have some SAD agents amongst them, then there's the fact that SoL is working with the coalition. They should know the basics of how vampires live, how to kill them and have a little insight as to how their society works.

>>96881417
>"smart play"
That's the problem with this general, it's full of a lot of people who apply white room "smart play" logic to games that they don't play.
I'm not calling everyone here no-games or anything, but the vast majority of people here have not played every single WoD and CofD game and even for the few that have, they most certainly don't do so on a regular basis.
So it leads to a lot of reductive assumptions on games based on white room logic, without any consideration for the circumstances of characters and chronicles, which can lead to entire splats being dismissed for the silliest reasons.
>When played optimally within a white room, this splat seems like it's absolutely miserable to play so I have no interest in it.
>This splat did not do the optimal white room thing and made suboptimal choices in the past. This splat is retarded.
>This splat has the most options available to it and is theoretically more capable than any other splat in a white room, therefore it is my favourite.

File: s-l1600.jpg (732 KB, 1076x1106)

732 KB JPG

>>96881474
>SAD
ngl this trips me up every time

>>96881559
Hey, now both SADs can work together

>>96881521
>but the vast majority of people here have not played every single WoD and CofD game

This is why I typically only answer questions about HtV, VtM, VtR, and CtL. Everything else I can only weigh in based on universal ST/Player advice, things like "plan ahead, but don't get married to your plan, you will need to pivot and make shit up".

>>96881474
So they'd be aware of ghouls being a thing, but might not know what they are or how they come about?

>>96881857
SIggers are a plot device, and therefore they know however much as the plot requires.

>>96881857
They should be aware of all the basics, either thanks to SoL information or simple use of enhanced interrogation on captured ghouls or vampires. Stuff that older vampires know should be a thing they struggle with. They may know about the existance of the camarilla and the anarchs but any more obscure details should be out of their reach. Think in terms of what your average spook coul gather from observation and evidence gathering, they have all the tech but that lack the more esoteric knowledge. SoL might be helping them but they 're not just gonna share all their secret with the CIA. The simpler take is what >>96881912
said

>>96881041
>Not to mention there is a surprisingly large amount of people who think that the Gentry are above every other splat in powerlevel even above Archmages & stuff essentially telling you thats its a no win scenario &
Yes? That's literally the point of the Gentry. If you want a Gentry dead you lure them to Earth and send fifty men at them with cold iron. There are ways to beat them but they're about tricking them, not overpowering them in their own neighborhood.

>>96881219
>While the second edition makes the Gentry less terrifying and the stages of grief allegory of the courts a lot weaker, the courts are actually effective and not just a source of infighting and the Lost have a whole lot more agency than they had in the first edition. The second edition really dials back the "misery porn" and is a lot more playable as a game, at the cost of losing a lot of the dread and allegorical meaning of the first edition. More playable, less artistic.
All that essay of yours just to say second edition is boring as fuck compared to 1st edition, lol

>>96881219
>None of the courts had the right answer
Wrong. 1e was very clear that no court has the ENTIRE answer, but they all have pieces of the larger puzzle that ARE the answer. They have to work together to succeed. The whole point is that seasons change, courts pass power to each other and cooperate, and the Gentry become powerless against them. It's only when a Court starts dicking around and not doing their jobs that the Gentry become immediate threats.
>You're right about in being a no-win scenario back when.
No, he's retarded and so are you. 1e establishes quite clearly that if freeholds didn't work, they wouldn't exist and everyone would just be motleys in the wind, drifting and running forever. But freeholds do work, the Gentry either don't dare attack them or can't find them depending on which season is in charge at the moment.
>In the second edition, a late-game motley of Lost can take on one of the Gentry on their own as the climax of a chronicle,
You can do that in 1e too. Not in Arcadia of course, but if a Keeper enters Earth they are not even on par with Elder vampires. They are absolutely killable even by mid-tier Motleys, cold iron helps a lot with that. At high levels, Wyrd 7 or higher, you are able to contend with Keepers on fair footing in dream duels and Hedge duels. This is reflected in the way that the Gentry react very differently the presence of high Wyrd Changelings and treat them with wary respect as genuine threats.
>the courts are actually effective and not just a source of infighting
I'm so fucking tired of your retarded bullshit 2e propaganda, you stinking subhuman ape

I have never had any issues running or playing CtL1, nor had I ever heard someone call it misery porn before coming here.

I'm like 60% sure this is the same pot-stirrer behind the technocracy autism.

It's a shame my banality is too high to enjoy this autism battle.

>>96881987
>Pot-stirrer
Oh most definitely, considering it was from yesterday's thread. Not sure about the technocracy stuff.

>>96881984
>But freeholds do work
Solely due to strength of numbers.

>>96882016
>Solely due to strength of numbers.
fuck off if you haven't even read the core book, stupid fucking ape

I thought you guys said VtM and MtAs posting was the cause of all the shitflinging here, but we've had werewolf and changeling talk all day and it's just as shit.

>>96882028
yeah well that's what happens when anti-Gentryfag shows up to bitch and moan that the primary antagonist of a splat are... DANGEROUS?!

>tfw it's impossible to have sexy and dramatic romance between a sweet mousy vampire girl and the bad boy werewolf with a sensitive side in WoD
My Gothic fantasy gone before it even started...

>>96882028
>Every [insert splat]poster hates the other splats
Lore accurate

>>96882028
Hey we've had no shitflinging from the woofs today. Just a silly fluff sack going through a crush.

>>96881987
Leave the technocracy out of this, we're just enforcing the consensus.

>>96881297
He said he was with the Fangs of Garm, but something about him is making me think he wasn’t being truthful. I have no idea who this “Laufey” is, though

>>96882028
VtM posting is fine except when it's a V5 argument. Mostly because we all agree V5 sucks and just end up arguing on the details of WHY it sucks. It's actually kinda funny how V5 sorta works like a Rorschach test for what people like about games.

>>96882038
But anon, it can. Uktena diplomat and his sweet giovanni girl going through a little rebellion.
Shadow lord fixer on his way up the political ladder gets in bed with a dark eyed beauty who isn't bothered by his distaste for technology. Damn things are too fragile.
Glass Walker bf who's gf is a minor net celeb because of her occasional artistic, that's deeply connected to city night life.

I get the last two don't really fit the specific scenario but it's really just matching up the two and then plotting out how it happened.

>>96882038
there's really no reason why such a relationship can't happen. They just need to sit in a room and talk a while to realize both of them are just people with curses. Their respective factions are unlikely to care as well so long as there's no current war between woofs and vamps in the area

>>96879522
Domestic animals can't be Changers, that's what. Wovles or coyotes with dog features would still need to be overwhelmingly wolf and/or coyote.

>>96882038
I guarantee there's a million romance novels with that concept, you're not short on material. Or just bend WoD stuff to fit your needs, it's a game.

>>96882052
An Incarna. Maybe, point is that Get was probably trying to play a prank. Don't worry about him. You got better things to focus on, like that witch.

Inthinknsome of the issue with the Gentry in CtL is that all the other splats feel a lot more free, wolves & vampires deal with threats that are mostly similar to themselves & most of the game sessions revolve around stuff thats mundane politics of supernatural creatures. People making moves to expand territory, Petty slights, old rivalries, etc. In changeling, politics isnt much of an incentive because your power & authority dont last, the threats are less from creatures like you & are more from semi constant attacks from outsiders, the typical adventure is leaving earth to explore the Hedge which doesnt exactly have a map, to struggle through the STs poor subverted fairytale where the rules are made up & running 90% on the GMs whim. Its hard to care. Its both too much & too little

You know im surprised that there isn't a greenbelt or story about a Gaoru under going the Silver Fangs Rite of Breeding

>>96879221
And there's even a bunch of 'people' in the Scabs that are so snared by little Banes from this content that they think it's all foreign propaganda.

>>96882458
greenbelt? If I'm thinking the term right, isn't that what British Columbia kinda is?

>>96882554
*Green text

>>96882212
I see. Well, a spirit has passed me a message that my “friend with benefits” (is that the correct expression?) wants to see me. Apparently this night is special to humans. So, I guess it’s goodbye for now

>>96882626
Yes, that's correct. Gaia bless you with endurance for the trial to come.

>>96881041
>Not to mention there is a surprisingly large amount of people who think that the Gentry are above every other splat in powerlevel even above Archmages
And here we arrive at the heart of the issue: it was a magefag bitching and whining that his pet splat isn't the most powerful ever and able to instantly steamroll everyone else with an errant twitch of their obese wrists. All the whining about the terrifying power of the Gentry makes sense now.

I am an idiot and have gotten into World of Darkness only because of Hunter the Parenting.

Tomorrow night is the finale of the HtV game I've been playing in. Our cell is having big final showdown with the BBEG, a very powerful Inferno Demon known as The Blind Shadow. We've got a small army of NPCs at our back, we need to destroy the shrine of bones tying him to our reality.

It's gonna be pretty fun.

>>96882778
At least you're honest about it.

incel Toreador admiring art and trying to explain the complexity of a specific piece to a skank Toreador who barely listens and just wants to bone

File: IKB_191.jpg (1.46 MB, 1496x1927)

1.46 MB JPG

>>96882879
>the above mentioned """art"""

File: Screenshot 2025-11-01 at (...).png (361 KB, 496x441)

361 KB PNG

>>96882895
there are sensible Toreadors

>>96882899
He's a gigantic asshole no better than Lacroix.

>>96882904
well yeah but he has good taste in movies and that's what we're arguing about.

>>96882899
Of course there are, and I quite like the clan, but the thread gets boring without some gratuitous hate.

>>96882899
You just know he's on The List. He probably penned it himself.

>>96882879
>*desperate for vitae voice* and what does this one symbolize?

>>96882879
>toreador
>incel
He'd be doing it to a Lady Nossie, let's be real. She'd tear his face off later. Not just because he's up his own ass and a pos, but because he gets mad at her giving a sincere answer related to art.

>>96882904
he's a little more sincere than LaCroix as far as flat out telling you that he'd rather he used your talents than LaCroix. there's less subterfuge
ultimately everybody seeks power and influence, but there are some who go better about it than others
>>96882913
I'd like it a hell of a lot more if it wasn't over represented by skanks and arthoes
my Toreador are always pensive and introspective, sometimes supportive of the Camarilla, sometimes not, but always dismissive of the likes of VV and other such sluts

>>96882940
One of these days I'd like to make a Toreador that's attracted to mathematical beauty.

File: Ouija_2014_poster.jpg (68 KB, 220x331)

68 KB JPG

>>96879226
I just watched a movie with my mom.

>>96882930
in vtmb2 I played a toreador eager to shit on that black chick and mingle with the other toreador girl(?) and I had this notion of a respectable art patron having to hang around they/them retards who make "art" out of bubblegum packages
A similarly funny scenario would apply to a chivalrous Ventrue elder having to sit around talking to corporate bros or manager girlbosses. Not that anything about that game was fun or funny
>>96882945
I outright reject the notion that all Toreador are shallow whores

>>96882946
>male ghost possessing a young girl
Kinda hot.

File: file.png (969 KB, 696x656)

969 KB PNG

>>96882940
I'm using a toreador anarch in my Hunter: The Vigil campaign, who fled from her home borough after some warring with the cammys(a VTM campaign run by one of the players that I and one of the other players played in), who moved into my small Ontario town to start a new Barony because she loved the natural beauty of rural Ontario on the lake.

She's hyper conservative and is working on trying to eradicate the other creatures that live in town using ghouls, whom she feels is spoiling what makes the area beautiful.

>>96879524
>Lycanthrope: The Rapture (it’s so badly written it drives fans to suicide)
Post the PDF.

>>96882895
It actually gets harder to respect with additional context like it's about AIDS rotting out Derek Jarman's optic nerve.

>>96882960
>reject the notion that...Toreador are shallow whores
You and the rest of the Toreador. I know originality's something non-existent but damn you guys really hammer it home.

When True Fae take over an urban neighborhood, it is called Gentrification.

>>96879642
Aren't those basically Nosferatu or whichever vampires tend to live in sewers?

File: nosferatuhaven.webm (2.43 MB, 464x856)

2.43 MB WEBM

>>96883011
Yeah, looks like a bunch of angry nosferats.

>>96882996
post hands nossie lmao

>>96883004
when a run-down taqueria is turned into a hot spot for tremere, it's called chantryfication

>>96882968
neat

>>96881987
>nor had I ever heard someone call it misery porn before coming here.
The short chronicle I played in actually had a slightly more positive tone than the mixed-splat chronicle that our ST had run previously.

>>96883090
But how is that possible, when CtL is all about being an abuse victim suffering from trauma hiding from your abuser? What the fuck is positive about that?

File: the-time-knife-v0-slsq0t7(...).png (76 KB, 640x355)

76 KB PNG

>>96881420
>a cool magic knife

>>96882028
Wait until you see the Promethean fans...

>>96879463
That image is a perfect example of how dated oWoD had become by the 21st century. Nobody was making toys like that by 2011.

Why doesn't owod embace the y2k zeerust already?

>>96883272
>y2k zeerust
As if. The oWoD writers were mentally stuck in the 80s. They acted like they were some underground resistance fighting the oppressive regime of Ronald Reagan all the way until the nWoD reboot.

>>96883266
>no one made nerf guns by 2011
>no one made barbies by 2011
The pet slime phenomenon referenced by GooZe in the bottom left definitely died by that point, but girls still play with dolls with exaggerated features and boys still play with fake guns.

>>96883220

You rang?

Whats the best villains for a mixed game?

Im thinking Pentex for the main, but I want to branch out a bit

>>96883371

Technocracy hates everyone and everything and can give you some fun Men In Black vibes to pull off to contrast with Pentex.

>>96883371
Depends on the focal splat. If Pentex are the primary villains, you're just playing a WtA game with a mixed cast.

>>96883371
You got a theme in mind that could tie the villain(s) together? Cause good ol' Nephandi are right there. Hunters, the fools they are, work as well. One that might be hard to legitimize as a threat until the end could be a Nephwrack turned Onceborn.

>>96883139
It's almost like the trolls here will repeat the same bullshit over and over.

>>96883371
>Whats the best villains for a mixed game?
Me.

>>96883397
Stop posting Mithras

>>96883371
Setitologists. The cult's bigger than the clan, members can be anybody.

>>96883371
using demon rules from devil's due allows you to have most splats as demonic cultists with systems and gifts that allow them to have have two mana meter and one thing that's not mentioned here often is that becoming a earthbound (again using devil's due rules) thrall has no downsides for black spiral dancers or skin dancers who can even power the arcana with gnosis (so they are the only one who don't have two mana meter)

if you are in the east then yama kings also have mixed splat servants (akuma, some sorcerer and mages, cyborg agents, their own evil mummies and probably more)

the true black hand if you take all the nonsense in both their books have liches, a mummy, vampires, revenant families, aborminations and mages and are pretty much a apocalypse cult everyone outside of the sect would hate

>>96883391
It's not bullshit if you can't prove it wrong.

>>96883389
Well there's no "focal" splat. Its one of each splat. A mage. A wolf. A vamp. A wraith. Etc. They're each investigating an evil group that want to destroy the world. Not rule it. Not claim it for x or y. They want to end everything & drag the world deep into the abyss & burn it with hellfire. Inbthebend they'll be facing the literal antichrist & the End Times

>>96883371
Nephandi. Be interesting to see how a Garou or Kithian reacts to a REAL threat to reality.

>>96883424
Give it a rest, magefag.

>>96883434
in that case you are pretty much locked into the most insane demons and nephanti

even (most of) pentex (that is even aware of the supernatural) thinks that the wyrm is going to remake the world for them after they free it

>>96883434
Then the focal splat is going to be whatever splat the villain comes from. If the villains are just as mixed as the players, then it's going to be an unfocused slop chronicle.

>>96883434
Right in that case. Malfean Nephandies, maybe through Pentex or not, Tal'mahe'ra leaders and perhaps a Neverborn's Nephwracks. Perhaps a knowledgeable Earthbound with a devil's deal too. Banes, BSDs, Ministry vamps, good ol' cultists and their equivalents could be ez fodder

>>96883354
Ulgans are a pointless lineage.

>>96883424
It's been proven wrong repeatedly, you just don't want to accept it.

>>96883354
Osirans are boring

File: 83a.gif (437 KB, 200x210)

437 KB GIF

>>96883451

>>96883452
Don't waste your breath, see: >>96882727

Being a Wraith is badass!

Don't say the W word.

>>96883544
W*men?

File: 1659838595365195.jpg (816 KB, 1491x2292)

816 KB JPG

>>96883544
Wonderwoman?

>>96883565
>jpg
I fail to see the problem

File: tumblr_ed5d278a8a68c99a72(...).jpg (44 KB, 540x653)

44 KB JPG

Pandorans are your friends.

>>96883544
Widderslainte?

Is there anything similar to "infectious werewolves" in oWoD or CoD?
I'm running a WtA "interlude chapter" and I was planning to have the Garou players find some spooky situation where rabid "fake werewolves" bite the residents of a rural town and turn them into sickly imitations of Gaia's strongest retards. Basically Garou vs Pop culture werewolves.

>>96883590
Reflavored warwolves? Have some teases about the transformative disease being a result of Jane Pennington or Rabbat

>>96883525
It is pretty much the same as the Skinlands, if you think about it.

>>96883371
from the left field but how about the weird anit sun alliance? you got a malkavian meth (louhi) and some elder lasombra who are working for the lasombra ante a shadowlord camp that has fallen to the wyrm (society of nidhogg), two setite cults and the court of shadow fae also want in

and you can also easily add nephanti and spectres in there

helios has a lot of enemies huh

If a mortal has 3 stamina and I want to suffocate him with shadow play (1 dot in obtenebration) is that even possible? It says I can only suffocate someone when they hit 0 stamina, but the power description says shadow play only reduces their stamina by 1, so I am confused here.

>>96883590
Closest thing WtA has to it would be Howling Shamblers, an extremely rare creature: a Werewolf Fomori. They do not spread via bite but they are werewolves infected by a bane and turned into something between a hollywood werewolf only it never shifts back, and a zombie.

WtF has a few equivalents. In very rare cases people who are exposed to werewolves (lunacy, forsaken's version of the delirium) can become wolf-blooded, who then in turn could theoretically first change. More practically though, there's a moon gift that can allow the werewolf to spread an echo of lycanthropy via their bite. Mortals bitten go nuts and enter near-man under the loose control of the actual werewolf. I think it lasts for a month before it needs to be re-upped.

if you really need something for apocalypse you could have pentex testing a weird team-up between lycaeon and illiad, wherin they have a bane that creates infectious, short-lived mockery wolves. It doesn't proceed to break the setting because they realize the results naturally expire too quickly to be of any real use. You can always make up more bullshit pentex is doing.

>>96883590
Zoonotics from Skinchangers - World of Darkness is the closest that comes to mind it's viral infection that turns you into a were creature, but you can't turn back, ever, if the infections isn't stopped early

File: 1669442746733.jpg (494 KB, 1018x768)

494 KB JPG

This talk of werewolf infection reminds me of why I truly, genuinely hate WtA. VtM draws on a wide variety of both folklore and pop culture vampire archetypes, while WtA does not come close to doing the same for werewolves.

Riddle me this, /wodg/
What would an Angel gain from collaborating with the Cheiron Group and Task Force Valkyrie?

>>96883644
You can't suffocate anyone with 3+ dots of stamina. Later powers can reduce stamina by 2 but as long as they have more than 0 they can still breathe.
Shadow play will only suffocate weak nerds and grannies.

>>96882778
The only actual idiot potential from that is if you don't read any of the books and instead get your setting info second hand from HtP or the wiki.

>>96883590
I've been playing with the idea, of what if Rage could be implanted into a mortal. The result wouldn't be pretty and there's a reason the Litany requires you make sure that you kill anyone you attack. I wouldn't want them to become full on Garou though, I feel like that's a lame cop-out.

>>96883854
It does, you're just a retard who doesn't know shit about werewolf myths.

>>96884010
Thats seems right up BSD alley

>>96884044
That's the problem I always come back to. Anything where a curse transfers via bite mean that the BSD are just going to get a new boost to their numbers as they won't give a shit if an insane killing machine with no loyalty comes out the other end. Unless there's something that makes it repellant to the BSD too.

>>96884060
Maybe it's just extremely unlikely to actually take hold and/or immediately fries the mortal's brain.
So sure, the BSD can do it, want to do it, but it still is a 1/1000000 case.

Anyway, if you want to have something that even BSD revile, you can start looking at skin dancing and build up from there.

>>96883854
WtA just took Theiss of Kaltenbrun and made him a D&D druid instead of a Christian.

In their defense actual werewolf folklore is basically just a type of witchcraft across all cultures, and the handful of remaining myths are weirdly vampire adjacent. If anything, WtA is closer to myths about wild-men that are halfway to animals that fight good and do rape. Pop culture werewolves are usually defined by their lack of control. Neither are easy to make a functional RPG out of.

Though I do agree WtA really doesn't feel very Werewolfy. To be honest, I'm not sure werewolves as popularly understood are a good choice for a full splat, which then begs the question of: Should they have made such an un-werewolfy game about werewolves, or should they have focused on other monsters that might have been a cleaner adaptation?

>>96884096
>Should they have made such an un-werewolfy game about werewolves
Yeah they should have, it's the second most popular game they made. The people that like it really like it, and don't have this autistic problem about it not being "werewolfy" enough, because to them it is.

>>96883590
One theoretical origin of briarwolves in CtL is that they're those who stumbled into fairyland and got lost in the Hedge.

>>96880097
Ok, let's presume that they have some mind control resistance so we can hand wave the Hedge's effect on Werewolves. Arcadia has a much bigger variety of bullshit that will just "rocks fall everyone falls" a group unless they have a damned good plan.

I think CtD and CtL could easily exist in the same world (same Arcadia, the Hedge is almost a backdoor right where it butts against reality, and the Dreaming being the front defense). However I don't know if Dreamlings and Lostlings could interact in an interesting way. They seem like they'd be predisposed towards being antagonists.

Assamites do not have enough flavor to be a generic clan like V5 keeps pushing them to be. Without being attached to an assassin death cult, they just come across as weird and one note. "I judge and execute the unworthy" is a good idea for a character, not a bloodline of vampires.

>>96884303
we know, everyone (beside the current writing team) knew since second ed that's why they made the caste bloodlines in the first place (not that this worked out) and why they had their lore and disciplines retconned several times

>>96884303
They were made to fit a role but they don't have a solid enough foundation to go beyond that.

>>96884235
The Lost would most likely consider a Dreamling either a Loyalist or a Springer who has really, REALLY drank the Court's Kool-Aid

>>96884321
That or just a really exotic goblin who bought a mask/human form.

>>96884096
Yeah werewolfness is usually just a spell or special ability you give to something already supernatural. The only stand alone werewolf mythos ive ever liked was unironically the MTV Teen Wolf tv series

>>96884303
I will make a hot take and say that this rational applies to most of the clans - even most of the Cam 7 - but people are too attached to their preferred archetype to admit it. Because in their mind "I judge and execute the unworthy" is somehow more one note than "I rule and lead the masses."

>>96884421
It's a matter of the flexibility of the initial concept. A ruler can take a thousand forms, even if only like 7 are playable, a judge and executioner have 2.

>>96884439
not really, the difference comes from which rules they enforce, similar to how brujah get variety from what they rage against.
that said, they're still significantly less interesting then the brujah because the conflicting ideologies create no conflict beyond haqim worshippers and muslims, nor is there an inherent tragedy to them like the brujah's "doomed to destroy anything they try to create" shtick

>>96880668
Depending on what parts of the character concept you focus on:
Thyrsus, as already mentioned, with probably either Fate, Matter or Prime to support her making homeopatic cure.
Order could work as almost anything except maybe Arrow, unless your nature witch also wants to play combat medic. Free Council or Silver Ladder if you're more community oriented, Mysterium or Guardians if you're more focused on the magic itself with a side of cult building around your magical praxis.

Do you guys allow your players to take Cult? How do you handle growing your cult once you have it?

I could use a hand fluffing out a spirit for CofD. It's a Spirit of Consumption that resides in the marshes. Centuries ago, Celtic tribes warred in the region and this Spirit glutted on their corpses. Unfortunately, the war wiped out all the tribes involved, and this Spirit was so fat and starved that it could not leave the marshes. It ravenously eats whatever it can trap in the waters, but word spreads and people stopped delving the marshes. Centuries pass and the marsh is still viewed as worthless, it's no good for farming, the land can't be built upon. Until one night, somebody dumps a body there. The spirit rouses, it's been so very long.

This time around, it's going to be riding people to influence them to dump more bodies. It will create zombies from these corpses that it tithes a portion of their feeding from. But I can't think of a Ban or Bane for it. The Spirit itself can be ignored as it'll starve itself to sleep if it isn't fed with bodies (probably), but I feel like its zombies should have some of its Bans or Banes, patterns of behaviour that it programs into them?

>>96884558
The ban could be centered around giving things, so he can't bribe or exchange shit. While a bane could be anything that allows the people to dwell on the swamp.

>>96883896
Thought so, thanks for clarifying.

>>96883869
Elimination of those pesky Fallen.

>>96883869
That yummy and delicious pyros

>>96884631
My current thinking is that his Ban is that it cannot refuse food. Whatever "food" might be is nebulous, but if it's even remotely edible then it has to eat.

It probably would want people to build on its swamp, to help provide it with more food? I'll concede I don't fully understand the ins and outs of Spirits, but it's more a Spirit that resides in a swamp than a Spirit of the swamp if that makes sense?

>>96882895
To be fair, as I understand that painting is supposed to be the most 'blue' painting ever. Artist spent ages getting the most perfectly blue pigments

What's your take on the three major factions? Camarilla, Anarch, Sabbat.

The Sabbat has a point but they seem ineffective, and Anarchs are just retarded as far as I'm concerned.

>>96885317
They're all somewhat retarded, but Sabbat and Anarchs are both mostly thinly-veiled failsafes for even more retarded murderhobo players

>>96885342
I don't see how the Anarchs and Sabbat haven't totally violated the masquerade and alerted the entire world of the Cainite presence by now. With the Anarchs you'd have retarded fledglings posting vampire tricks on Instagram, with the Sabbat I'm sure any number of capricious murder sprees or ritual leftovers would've raised some red flags.

>>96883869
Those two conspiracies have arguably the biggest impact on the wider public. Federal government and pharmaceuticals affect millions of Americans, it can easily use these institutions to push it's current mission, presumably involving their general areas of expertise.

>>96885317
Camarilla only exists to keep Elders safe, powerful, and comfortable. Everyone else is just entering one of the most volatile and cut throat rat races imaginable.
Anarchs aren't a faction, they're just any vampire that doesn't put up with Camarilla shit but wants to coexist with other vampires. The Camarilla isn't actually powerful enough to deal with them, otherwise there would be no Anarchs. Instead, they come up with the pathetic cope that all vampires are part of the Camarilla. Because Anarchs also uphold the Masquerade, as every vampire does since they aren't actually retarded, there's rarely a point for hostilities to come to a head. For some reason people tend to thing Anarch society looks like a reflection of Camarilla society, and there's one big Baron in charge per City. Bloodlines did it well, there's multiple Anarch factions all infesting and coexisting simultaneously within LA, but only one Camarilla.
The Sabbat are the only one of these three actually playing the Jyhad. Retards in the Camarilla think they are because they think that the Sabbat is the only one they play against. Cammies are merely pawns on the board.

>>96885355
Yada-yada Camarilla coverup.
> Those insufferable LARPers are really something, right? Also, wow, AI can really do wonders nowadays.

>>96885441
>Camarilla only exists to keep Elders safe, powerful, and comfortable. Everyone else is just entering one of the most volatile and cut throat rat races imaginable.
This is what I don't buy. The top elders surely know of the Jyhad. There has to be a plan or greater goal in mind. I do agree that most average cammies are pawns but the camerilla has some secret societies and organizations at the top. The cammies who act as pawns are still playing the Jyhad they just aren't aware of their role.

>>96885006
Most of the art people like to talk about this way is about a "journey" or making a point about a whole other thing. So when you look at the end product without the context, it looks retarded.

>>96885355
>I don't see how the Anarchs and Sabbat haven't totally violated the masquerade and alerted the entire world of the Cainite presence by now.
They do, constantly, but every time that becomes a problem, that timeline is dropped.

>>96885317
>Camarilla
Too top heavy and despite hints to such things, they seem rather against the ideas of foundational repair and expansion. Sure some or most could be attributed to its in-fighting but like, come on, it reads as if there's a narrative mandate that says things can't become too "good". Good entirely being just solid infrastructure instead of the ramshsckle foundations left over from ages past. Like, as far as I can tell, they aren't actively against modernizing.
>Sabbat
Falls kinda flat at a middle level. Street level murder hobos or "cults" beating their chests about vamp superiority can work but anything long term means just being a skeletal version of the Camarilla but with diablerie being a-okay, sometimes. Sure they can rule cities but to what end?
On a global level, it kind of works as an opponent to the Camarilla but it's too stuck on that when it should be more actively digging out Antediluvian hooks from all of vampire society. As such it can come off as a gaudy organization that fancies itself poser cenobites because...they believe Caine gives them a thumb's up.
>Anarchs
Creators were fans of the various punk movements and countercultures but never thought further and as such they remain starved for development. It's fitting that Brujah are its main constituents since Brujah tend to mistakenly believe things they follow are things they've created themselves. Along with never thinking beyond the next several conflict.

>>96885474
>The top elders surely know of the Jyhad. There has to be a plan or greater goal in mind
Cammie cope post of all time

>>96885441
>t.Bell coping after Prague

>>96885510
There isn't a point to any vampire bullshit. They just exist and try to kill every other individual they come across.

>>96885474
High-level Jyhad is mostly realizing the game was to occupy you and keep you in one place while your ancestors wake up and come to swallow you, and continuing to play because it's something to do.

>>96885542
You know what would be funny? if there is a much bigger number of elders just chilling and enjoying themselves.

>>96885404
>Federal gov
Maybe if TFV and Vanguard ever put their heads together

>>96885317
anarchs are shit, mostly because the writers either think you should side with them because they're the obvious good guys and put no real effort into developing them or they don't know what to do with them so they turn them into a camarilla sub-faction.
the sabbat and camarilla are far more interesting because being the more openly monstrous factions (in their own ways) they've gotten actual development to justify why they still exist and haven't collapsed in on themselves yet
as for a more in universe take
anarchs are idiots, utopian thinking with no real understanding of how ppl (or kinfdred in this case) work
sabbat are probably correct but are such dementad assholes about it that it's probably not worth associating with them regardless
camarilla is probavlbly the most reasonable faction even if the elders abuse the fact that there aren't any real alternatives for most vampires.
so you're best of going at it alone, if you don't have the resources necessary for it then depending on the political situation of the city you're in your best options are either the camarilla, the anarchs or finding a new city

>>96885317
anarchs don't feel like a finished faction because they have no ideology to speak off and we are meant to be believe that the term includes everything between the very clan politics heavy soviet council, the 100% anti clan identity unbound and the 4 guys nine's bar in bloodlines who just don't want to have a boss and that those people identify with each other as "anarchs" and that makes no sense to me

>>96885722
Because they're all united in their opposition to the Camarilla 's globohomo. If they didn't have an enemy to all rally under, they probably wouldn't interact since they're in different cities.

>>96885474
>The top elders surely know of the Jyhad. There has to be a plan or greater goal in mind.
The Week of Nightmares ends with the Inner Circle in charge of the Camarilla going "oh shit, the Jyhad is real, Antediluvians are a genuine threat and not stuck in perma-torpor, the Sabbat is actually correct even if they're going about shit in completely the wrong way."
Then they just laugh nervously and tell each other to keep on keeping everything under wraps to try and preserve the status quo for as long as possible. The overlords of the Camarilla are not masterminds playing five-dimensional chess, they're just despots clinging to the power that they wield over their blinkered masses.

>>96882822
Hope you kicked some ass! Post a play report next thread.

>>96885492
>Sabbat keeps getting mogged by void-engineer timelords.

>>96885317
>Camarilla
Definitely the most engaging faction on multiple levels. It best executes the strong suit of vampire as a splat. Intrigue, building power bases, social games, investigating mysteries and conspiracies galore. The constant interplay between city politics, clan politics, and overarching Camarilla politics can create a very fascinating tangled web. Gives you the most options as both a player and ST, it's no surprise it's always been the default even when the writers tried to push other factions as the default. The Camarilla isn't a perfect system, nor should it be, vampires shouldn't have a perfect system. But it has often suffered from the writers buying the detractor's line about it being a silly gerontocracy of silly vampires and their bootlickers. The disaster that is the late revised metaplot leading into Gehenna did a huge number on the Camarilla because it essentially proved the Sabbat correct and had the Camarilla basically do nothing the entire time. I strongly recommend people read the actual Guide to the Camarilla, it paints a much more nuanced and interesting view of it rather than taking the Anarch talking points as gospel.

>Anarch
A very poorly constructed non-faction. It sometimes receives favoritism due to the writer's pro-punk bias, but by the same measure they never got fleshed out as they exist only in opposition to the actual factions with actual philosophies and positions. Sometimes, it's just used as a catch-all term for any western vampire movement that isn't the Sabbat or the Camarilla. I think the existence of the Anarchs is an active detriment to the setting, because they essentially prevent more interesting and resonant opposition movements and/or minor factions from emerging. This issue is only exacerbated by how poorly the punk movement aged.

>>96886279
>Sabbat
I love them. They're probably the best and most versatile group of antagonists you have in VTM. They're a dumpster fire in the best way, they represent the worst of vampire-kind, and even then, there is a real point buried deep down in the stew of inhumanity that defines them. Even in cross-splat, their tendency to be obvious and pick fights with everyone makes them a good way to introduce vampire stuff. Actually playing in the Sabbat can be fun as well, but it needs the right kind of group and the right story to go with it. Some people think they're too messy, I disagree. They're the right amount of messy for what they are. Too often setting writers make factions too clean and well-ordered. IRL there's a lot of dumpster fires and loose alliances. You do have to at some point acknowledge that their "stance" on the Masquerade is a big fat cope, and that the Silence of the Blood is just the Masquerade (edgy) just to keep the setting turning. I think too many people actually take the Sabbat at their word on a lot of stuff.

>>96886279
Except the Camarilla IS a gerontocracy of silly vampires and their bootlickers. The purpose of the Camarilla is to preserve the status quo, it tells you right there on page 12 of the Guide to the Camarilla. It even states that the Camarilla might be made better, but that it wouldn't serve the interests of the elders that control it.

I personally find the political intrigue and powerbuilding to be one of the worst aspects of a Camarilla tabletop game. They're there to facilitate an adventure hook, not for the players to actually participate in. Why are the players doing this? Because the Prince/Primogen/Sheriff is ordering them to/calling in a favor with their sires. Everytime my playgroup has attempted to actively get involved with the local political structure, it has always dragged the game down or imploded the group.

The only time the default Camarilla political drama has ever been even slightly enjoyable is the context of a LARP where you have dozens of players forming alliances and plots because a single Storyteller (plus maybe a handful of assistants) can't give so many players their personal attention.

>>96886427
Preserving the status quo and benefitting the people at the top is not synonymous with being a silly gerontocracy filled with mindless bootlickers. Said guide also notes how the majority of Camarilla vampires are not active political climbers at all, and that many local members of the Camarilla are the equivalent of moderates who just want to keep their heads down and go about their unlives. I recommend Guide to the Camarilla because it shows a multifaceted and nuanced view of the Camarilla, rather than reciting Anarch and Sabbat talking points ad nauseum or just sucking its dick all the time. It is not perfect; it has no aspirations to create vampire utopia. It has many self-interested fucks; it also has some true believers. It is far more rigid and authoritarian than most westerners are comfortable with; it is also far less rigid and authoritarian than its enemies claim it is. I like the Camarilla because it's nuanced. It's not a mess like the Sabbat is, but it isn't nearly the monolith it or its enemies like claim it is.

It sounds to me like you had a particularly bad play experience and attributed it to a failure of the Camarilla as a setting fixture rather than a failure in the ST, players, or both.

Let me tell you the tale of Delbert the fickle,
Who thought himself coy and sold his soul for a nickle.
But soon-after found himself getting ever-more sickle,
Oh how Delbert got himself into a pickle.

>>96886534
No, I think the Camarilla is fine as a setting fixture, but as hook for stories, rules to follow, and powers that be to avoid getting on the bad side of. I take the sidebar on pg. 13 to heart.
>You have no authority, no hope for advancement, and no protection against the whims of your superiors.

>>96886664
>taking a sidebar as defacto canon
Are you okay? Maybe HtV or HtR's more your speed

Thought: Cryptocurrency is actually a deep scheme to establish the value and thus the validity of the human soul as an economic bargaining chip, given the human soul has infinitely more of a basis in reality than any crypto coin. Thus, once the value of the soul has been established, souls collected via corporate EULAs that nobody reads can be bartered and will represent a market with immeasurably more value than crypto.

File: cherry.png (351 KB, 507x564)

351 KB PNG

>>96886664
Christ that's a cherry-pick of a statement. Picrel is the full sidebar, it's explaining through metaphor the dilemma neonates face in a typical Camarilla city. The very sentence before the one you cherrypicked is "Either you force your way in by any means necessary, or you spend eternity at entry level". It provides you with an alternate option. Dilemmas aren't dilemmas if there's only one answer, and it's an obvious one.

I can cherrypick statements too, by the way.
>For the average vampire on the street, the Camarilla exists as a series of laws to follow, powers-that-be to avoid, and peers to maneuver against.
>The plots serve their purpose, ultimately. They provide the predators with distance from one another and give them something with which to while away the never-ending nights.
Both page 13, same as your sidebar. Both support my view of the Camarilla as complex and multifaceted.

Hell, the intro paragraph to the first section, The Sect Defined, says this:
>The Camarilla is many things, but it is not easily defined.
and
>There's no set answer, but everyone initiated into the world of the Kindred has an opinion.

You had a bad play experience and can't conceive of a game in which the PCs are active participants in the Camarilla's games of intrigue as a result. It's that simple.

>>96886812
What you're describing is that PCs cannot take an active role in Camarilla politics unless they disrupt a chronicle to do it. Forcing open doors doesn't mean playing by their rules.