Feels a bit fast especially after making a furry containment thread

>>96956627
Fair, this one will last a while like the other one.

>>96956571

I'm not saying it's just "get 10 in a Path & you unlock cheat code vampire" I'm saying that the Path reflects your own personal understanding of mastering your nature & getting it to 10 is just the start. I'd say there'd be a lot of trial & tribulation after that, to cement your understanding & then some sort of awakening moment that changes your character on a fundamental level. No curse of thinning blood, no curse of the sun, fire or forced to drink blood.

>After Caine partook of Lilith's blood, he was visited by three angels in a vision. These angels, who were agents of God, each offered Caine a chance to repent for the murder of his brother Abel, but Caine rebuffed them out of pride, seeing his actions as justified. Michael, when denied, cursed Caine and his childer to fear his living flame like no other. Raphael cursed Caine and his childer to fear the dawn, as the sun's rays would burn like Michaels holy fire. Uriel then cursed Caine and his childer to cling to the Darkness, drink only blood, eat only ashes, and be frozen at the point of death, cursed so that all they touched would crumble into nothing. A fourth angel, Gabriel, then appeared to offer the way of Golconda, the only way to "light", by the mercy of God.

>Then Caine's curse against the Antideluvians of thinning blood

All of this broken/forgiven/mastered. So you have a living body again, you can eat, go out in the sun etc. You also have no generation cap on abilities. If you want to use Vitae you can, you still have all your Disciplines, but you don't have to if you don't want to. I'm not sure on how much Blood Pool you should have access to. Either you are frozen at whatever you had, reduced to 10 like a normal human, or you get some arbitrarily decided number that sounds good for a 3rd gen

>>96956552
So would path of night/road of the abyss be like metamorphosis where they outgrew the need for a beast?

>>96956744
That sounds interesting. I would probably still never let my players do it though until maybe the very end

>>96956627
You sound thin-skinned about people discussing one of the best WoD games

>>96956744
Golconda always seemed to me like becoming a vampiric Bodhisattva. It shouldn't have hard numbers, because that defeats the purpose.

>>96956840
But enough about wraith

>>96956840
I'm not, just felt the threads were being made rather hastily as of late. I'm fine with WtA discussion myself

>>96956542 #
Just a fellow wolf seeking to bring down Pentex. Rotten bastards will pay for it.

>>96956560 #
It would be very difficult, what with the Rage fueling the Beast to frenzy. They'd need to be particularly prepared with abilities & Disciplines... that blood magic of theirs would probably have a way to temper it

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>>96956882
Yeah, me to haha

>>96956811
I wouldn't let a player try it unless I thought they could handle the RP to make it more than a game mechanic, but it does need mechanics.

>>96956779
Sure, I don't know everything about every path, but I imagine some would have to go about it in different ways. I'd probably say some get different ends though. Like Lillith worshipers become lilin.

>>96951059
>>96951090
>>96951128
The Salubri player's a first-timer, and she requested a harder time than the other players. The Niko+Yu comparison was from her being a likeable person that wants to support her father and younger sister, but also being kind of a thug too. Her sire embraced her for unclear reasons. It might be Saulot's fault, the dick. I'm gonna use the weeping blood sparingly until I get a feel for the system, maybe it only happens only on out-of-clan disciplines or Auspex, or you don't go hunger frenzy unless you feed on her. She will likely be the straight man.

My GF is the Setite, she's going to be doing her own thing to the disgust and annoyance of the rest of the Ministry, and has a detective that's on her trail from her sire's cult. She wants him alive, he wants to arrest her for the deaths of all those people back in Iowa.

Brujah rockergirl is happy being a secondary character to the machinations of the others, as long as she gets to see a lot of different World of Darkness stuff. Hence the Changeling groupie. Probably troll or slaugh, maybe a fragile sidhe princess type.

Bahari-chan is waffling on her clan. My plan is basically to do Fair is Foul but with her as Lilith's avatar instead of Dhampir girl, so whatever she decides on she'll have distant Kindred mentors that are secretly Lilith's henchmen.

My plan is that the aforementioned bullshit will be an ongoing arc while they try to survive night-to-night. Their first target will be a Gehenna cult led by a Beckoned Elder. For unclear reasons, he and his coterie will be behaving as Redcoats in the ruins of Valley Forge. I thought it would be funny if I did "going to an ancient battleground to fight the Gehenna War" in a way that isn't all bible shit or european gothic.

(is it obvious I mostly play Requiem?)

>>96956882
>Just a fellow wolf seeking to bring down Pentex.
Another furry RPer going after Pentex? I can see why corporate wants me to post here.

There any mesoamerica dark eras stuff?

>>96957045
The closest you get is Croatan Song for WtA. I forget the exact date it's set, but I'm pretty sure it's closer to just before Columbus than it is Dark Ages.

What are good reasons to include urban Black Furies in a chronicle other than the typical "women's shelter protectorate"?

>>96957123
>No ancient vampires and werewolves in the new world before Columbus
That's rather gay. Though I'm aware in the lore apparently the Silver Fangs or something decided to just murder all the natives. You'd think they could just communicate or something

>>96957230
W5 Black Furies are a lot more about Justice hunting (ala Batman), so maybe cops, fbi spooks, freelance bounty hunters. Frankly I think it's actually a good change despite male black furies

>>96957230
Actual sorority that seems to never have problems if there's a university

>>96957045
Demon the Fallen got some scenarios but I don't remember many details.

>>96957255
The Pure Lands were full of Garou and Fera before Columbus, that's what Croatan Song is all about. It's not until the Wyrmcomers came that there were suddenly significantly less Garou and Fera.
And if I remember right, one of the Diablerie adventure books is about an Aztec vampire (he swam across the ocean from Europe or some dumb bullshit and didn't even create his own bloodline). I haven't read it, but the Chaos Factor is set in Mexico City, maybe it delves into pre-modern mesoamerica? There's also Mexico City by Night, again I haven't read it so it may not be relevant.

>>96957269
Male furies were a thing before, they just had to be Metis.

>>96957336
Well yes but now they can just be regular men, as Black Furies are less about Women's Issues and more about just Issues. I meant in a general sense
>>96957333
It just seems to me somewhat unlikely and wasteful that the Ante's and other powerful kindred never branched out past the old word and the middle east. You'd think the Aztec dude wouldn't be unique in that regard especially with all the weird blood sacrifice stuff in that culture. Anyway, interesting stuff though I'm aware a lot of the world is pretty underutilized, increasingly so because it's seen as racist and problematic like with KotE or Charnel Houses despite being moderately well written but that's just how fickle liberal cutlure can be in that regard

>>96957333
The methuselah in Diablerie: Mexico wasn't european, he was some pacific northwesterner who got Gangrel'd and wandered the Americas until he stumbled into the Aztecs, where he set up a neat little God LARP.

Chaos Factor and Mexico city have a bit on "Huitzilopochtli", a Baali Methuselah who may be the third founding Baali or Nergal pulling an "I lived, bitch!", he LARPed as the God of the same name. But outside of specifically the Aztecs its fairly slim pickings. There's Pochtli the Mexica Cappadocian and a nothingburger Gangrel Methuselah torpid in Canada.

With the U.S.A. and Canada its understandible as we really do not know too much about the settled peoples of that region save the ones immediately contemporary to european settlers and even then some were recorded spottily. In Vampire, a game centralized around civilization and spanning wide gaps of history, it's hard to write about something we have so little information on, especially in the 90s when we had even less. One interesting note: There's a pretty popular theory that much of North America suffered a sort of Bronze Age Collapse equivalent a couple of centuries before Europeans showed up.

The more densely populated and urban developed pre-columbian South America has no excuse. Even if we go with "the Sabbat killed most of the local elders" route, it'd still be nice to have more about them. Drowned Legacies are a nothingburger that can't decide if it wants to be another Laibon or KotE.

Anyone know of a premade Vampire chronicle for one player, in the V20 system?

Last time I overcomplicated my sessions by planning everything myself, now I'd like to keep it as simple as possible.

>>96957383
W5 Furies are basically if somehow the old Furies joined forces with the Valkyria of Freyja and the Fangs of Garm, right down to the Gift list. It's... weird to see Halt the Coward's Flight as in-tribe for them, since that tends to counter the ethos of "wound, follow, hunt" that Furies often used to find a deeper root to a problem.

>>96957230
Group of women who frequent super popular clubs and bars and keep an eye out for men trying to take advantage of drunken women or straight up try to slip drugs into their drinks etc.
Bar owners with secret orders for women who in the moment don't feel safe.
Just walking around popular places pretending to be party girls looking for girls who might be in danger yelling "Heeeeeey girl we've been looking for you!"
All women startup company ( maybe this one won't burn down ( oh wait they're werewolfs ))

>>96957541
Look in the op folders. I believe premade adventures are termed as jumpstart adventures? Could probably find a list or so. Worst comes to worse searching the wiki?

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What can an innocent Kindred do to protect herself from rapist Garou and hunters?

>>96957681
Celerity. Makes you better at fighting and running away.

>>96957681
Learn their powers.

>>96957681
>hunters
Kill them or trick them. Also sue them for slander.
>garou
Well I mean out last them? They regenerate so just have a drink and ride 'em out. Maybe break their elbows to make it less dangerous

>>96957681
>kindred
>innocent

>>96957632
Well I suppose the Gets did have a giga-split as a faction
>>96957681
>Garou ever being interested in a fucking Toreador
Simply stop using dog musk perfume

>>96957230
They're still Garou. They might be more interested in the suffering of women than other Garou, but they'll still want to put a stop to the bullshit of Pentex and other servants of the Wyrm. Additionally, they're more dedicated to the reclamation of caerns than most other tribes, even if they're usually focused on Wyld-aligned caerns out in the wilderness. But if they find old caerns that lost their magic in urban spaces, there's a good chance that they might try to reawaken them.

>>96957729
Or you could do a farcical reconstruction and have them all be earnest-but-dumb college girls and SJWs that, despite it all, are still fighting without turning into murdertards, which makes them reliable allies.

How would a BSD Skin Dancer work?

Would it still be Wyrm tainted, rejected by Gaian spirits, enemy of garou, etc when the werewolves they killed were servants of the Wyrm?

You guys do play games right? What happened in your last one?

>>96957902
im starting my first game this friday!
it will be me and i think 3 other relatively new people but ST is very experienced

>>96957899
Skin Dancing and the Stolen Moon stuff is innately Wyrm aligned, even with donated pelts

How do marauders react with other splats, such as vampires and garou?

What would you say are the pros and cons of each clan as a group instead of as an inheritance?

Not changes to the individual like the Ventrue having Dominate or blood restrictions, but stuff that affects the group and its culture such as the right to Succor or the need for Dignitas.

Where would you say each clan shines in that sense?

>>96958009
Depends on how they were as a person before marauderdom? Marauders' unique problems kinda denote how they'll deal with it. If they were a sleeper than it should be the same unless they believe otherwise

>>96958023
Camarilla clans>>>>Hecata/Giovanni>>>>Sabbat
Purely on the basis that Camarilla clans get sucked off more and it is infuriating. This is shuffling Brujah and Gangrel into Camarilla too

>>96958009
Marauders can't be lumped together like that, and I don't think there's anything specific about being a marauder that would interact with other supernaturals.

>>96957986
>even with donated pelts
Didn't donated pelts mean you didn't count as Wyrm tainted though?

>>96957681
>innocent Kindred
That's a good one. Have you considered getting a tan to fool them?

>>96958078
I believe you come off as less Wyrm-tainted but alien enough to not be a real Garou. Last I remember reading

Going off the sabbat pack ideas last thread, a serpent of light pimp pack priest/ductus and his nosferatu walkers all with mask of a thousand faces

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>>96957681
Get a Tzimisce to turn you into an ugly mess that not even Fomorians dare to touch.
>>96958009
Every Marauder is unique. Get that Marauder who is basically playing VR Doom (or those who are playing Destiny/Warframe), he will just see Vampires and Garou as enemies to kill in a video game (and since reality around them will literally transform them into their Marauder's reality counterparts)

>>96958023
Most of the clans with interesting and complex internal clan culture are the Camarilla ones, which isn't surprising. I usually like to gush about how much I enjoy the Ventrue's internal set-up but it seems you already know about it so instead, I'll talk about how underrated Toreador internal affairs are.

Imagine a world where high school social posturing never ended, and that you're suddenly thrown into a world where you have to contend with someone who has been honing the art of petty bitchery for centuries. That's only scratching the surface. Unlike many other social clans, Toreador fucking hate each other, at least when they aren't boning in the corner. Always jockeying for social prestige, always trying to get in the wittiest remark, always trying to be the sexiest corpse in the ballroom, always purity spiraling over what counts as real art. How do they even stand each other? Well besides the tortured artists, most of them unlive for this shit, and the other reason is that when the other clans aren't looking, the Toreador's parties often veer into the utterly degenerate. Their first clanbook is filled with bondage art, and it goes to great lengths to paint a standard Toreador clan affair as something between an art gallery, a ballroom dance, and a bondage club. Older cities led by lower humanity Toreador can get full vampire blood orgy rather quickly, and they engage in a lot of melodramatic vampire bullshit. Like once in a blue moon, the Toreador will select a talented artist of some stripe to join their ranks. He or she gets the night of their lives, the sole human attendee of a party filled with vampires, and they're treated almost like a King/Queen for a day situation. At the end of the party, they're set upon, extremely slow to maximize the effect of The Kiss, and turned. Imagine playing a character who was embraced in that fashion.

The Sabbat clans have some fun stuff too. It's only the Indie Clans and sometimes the Brujah that feel one note

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>>96957681
Sparkling is badass actually. Use the glitter out of scrapped radiotherapy machines.

>>96958278
>I usually like to gush about how much I enjoy the Ventrue's internal set-up
As someone who knows enough about Ventrue to be interested but is still ignorant enough that I'm sure I'm missing a lot, feel free to gush about them too if you want to

>>96958278
What are some interesting sabbat things? I was disappointed with how little clan infrastructure Lasombra apparently has until I learned about the 'meta'-history of the clan.

>>96958278
>Imagine a world where high school social posturing never ended, and that you're suddenly thrown into a world where you have to contend with someone who has been honing the art of petty bitchery for centuries. That's only scratching the surface. Unlike many other social clans, Toreador fucking hate each other
That sounds very interesting. Does that mean that Toreadors are less likely to get support from their Clan than others?

I'd have thought there'd be a bit more cohesion, if only because Harpies and Auspex 6's ability to create telepathic networks made me think of mass coordinated sharing of information and social assassination.

>>96958353
>until I learned about the 'meta'-history of the clan
What do you mean?

>>96958078
Donated pelts are 100% clean. No wyrm taint at all. The Garou on the other hand just see you are an interloper & might kill you. There's also Stolen Moons who just end up shapeshifters from odd spirit deals & such so there multiple ways to a werewolf free if wyrm taint. But just because you werewolf, that dont make you garou, know what I'm sayin?

>>96957899
Well, you can skin BSDs & get a werewolf transformation, theyre probably the best & easiest source. If it was donated its theoretically not wyrm tainted, but id personally rule that if the donor was tainted the skin is tainted. Garou won't like you nonmatter what because you arent a "true" garou.

>>96957902
I killed some Baali

>>96958369
Sabbat clan initially wasn't planned to be player characters. This is back in first edition and they immediately went back on it obviously, but sabbat on top of being essentially 'boss npc' vamps explains the lack of development.
I personally feel White wolf, in general, missed a fun opportunity to admit that the Spanish Armada and Queen Victoria's ship fleets butting heads weren't just Lasombra flexing on each other in high-seas rivalry.

>>96958360
I assume how much help a Toreador gets depends entirely on a mix of Toreador hyperfixation and Ventrue-tier bitchery

>>96958353
They are selfish pirates/tyrants pretending. Lasombra are the best when they admit they like sailing the sea and being pirates.

>>96958371
I personally hate the donated skins being clean addition. The whole point of kinfolk and human allies in general is that they are also important and useful without going murderwoof. The Garou lose because they don't accept that. Doing a 180 and saying "oh but they can just become Garou" is a rugpull. Being a human and suddenly having Rage injected in you should cause you to go insane.

>>96958353
They have stuff like the Amici Noctis, but they probably (Im just guessing here) lost a lot during the inquisitions due to how invested they were in the Church.


Speaking of, is the Society of Leopold tainted/manipulated by infernalists or anyone else?
Because I vaguely recall reading something about some connection of the inquisition with the Angelis Ater somewhere...

>>96958309
Maybe later, I could go for ages about how much I like the Ventrue set-up, and I'm trying to be at least semi productive.

>>96958353
Well the Lasombra took the "only the strong" stuff to its inevitable conclusion, so it makes sense they're less centralized than others. Granted, they still created an oligarchy in the form of the Amici Noctis, basically an old Lasombra's club.

I think the most interesting thing about the Lasombra is how they usually choose their childer. They ruin their lives. Fired from their job, loved ones fall ill or die, dog somehow ate rat poison. Specifics don't matter, only dragging them to their lowest point does. Once they've hit rock bottom, the sire sees how they take it. If they kill themselves, it's a self-solving problem. If they're broken by it? Lmao get good. But if they can endure it, if it only hones their ambition, they embrace them. The idea is to create extremely mentally tough people with no human attachments, the perfect power-hungry sociopath the Lasombra want. In practice... it's not always like that. My table's had a lot of "backfired Lasombra embrace" stories.

>>96958360
Way less support than say, Ventrue/Tremere/Nosferatu, for sure. But they're not Gangrel tier. They can be cohesive, but the same way the Heathers were cohesive. The top Toreador gives marching orders that the rest of the local clan follow and pretend they're doing so of their own free will, but in truth they just don't want to be kicked out of their toxic social club. Because in vampire society, the only thing worse than bad friends is no friends.

>>96958479
Only specific leopold thing I can remember is the obvious one. I think the Angelis founder or their sire was an actual bishop that got embraced by an infernalist leading to the Ater.

>>96958283
I misread this as "spanking is badass actually."

>>96958023
The Gangrel don't have much advantage from being in the clan, but on the other hand what I've read about them makes them seem surprisingly amicable with each other.
Whether it's a random meeting or a proper Gather it's pretty much the same: they trade stories, teach lessons, try to prove their strength, and move on.
Gangrel can't rival the advantages or support you'd expect from a clan like Ventrue or Nosferatu but they are generally helpful towards their own.
Also the Gather seems insanely comfy; competing and telling stories all through the night, and if you can you stay awake through the next day learning from your elders.

>>96958646
What about the Malkavian?

>>96958479
>Speaking of, is the Society of Leopold tainted/manipulated by infernalists or anyone else?
Early on they had plenty of quislings in their ranks. That lead to the creation of censors. I'm pretty sure the Celestial Chorus had a hand in the inquisition and that may have backfired on them.

>>96958646
gangrels do have meeting but they are less let's plan shit meeting and more sit around the fire while skalds tell you their version of noddism meetings

it's also mentioned several times that gangrel are pretty much welcome by any vampire faction and sect like even the giovanni revised clanbook goes "oh i hope these guys become mercs now so i can hang around with them more" (and the assamites have to go down in price due to not having a monopoly anymore) so i am seconing that they are the comfy clan.. if you surrive being abbandoned as a fledgeling and don't manifest as a caitff

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Is he Garou?

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Thoughts?

>>96958746
>I'm pretty sure the Celestial Chorus had a hand in the inquisition and that may have backfired on them.
that's mentioned in dark age mage. they did sponsor the creation of the shadow inqusition but didn't expect their (inqusitors) powers to work against them too and even less expected the inqusition to denounce them as false infernal saints aka anti christs

so they went from their leader being second only to the pope in influence (and having designs to become even more) to having close to zero influence over the vatican and having to hide from the very people who they considered themselves to be saints of in not even a single century

>>96958761
>Fighting autist but fueled by hyper obsession and perfectionism
He's a Toreador martial artist who can just tank the sun

>>96958755
>gangrels do have meeting but they are less let's plan shit meeting and more sit around the fire while skalds tell you their version of noddism meetings
This is to the advantage of the individual gangrel though. They don't have to be pulled into a local powergrab by some elder/ancilla who makes the young ones support his schemes.
It limits their power as a group but it also reduces in-group conflict.

>>96958761
No, he got up to seven dots in all his Qiao in The Trumpet of Meru and then convinced the ST to let him buy an eighth.

>>96958417
The Ritual of Sacred Rebirth is a ritual that requires five werewolves that must be killed and skinned. In order for the Kinfolk to become a Skin Dancer without massive Wyrm corruption, they need five Garou to willingly give up their own lives so that the Kinfolk can be empowered.
"Oh but they can just become Garou" is a ridiculous interpretation, considering the cost. It's literally a case of finding five Garou (all of the same auspice too) who are willing to die in order to create one new Garou.

>>96958788
Kek, they really didn't forsee that religious people who hate anything supernatural would turn against them.

>>96958863
Listen: Rome was more of a vamp thing and the choirsters were always a minor problem back then. How were we to know they'd get big?

>>96958863
yes they where 100% convinced that they are honest to god saints and not mages at all and then they got hit with "(true) faith nulls your power, WITCH" and all turned to shit

>>96958053
That just is not true. Basically all the antitribu get an aside about how much better organised and more unified they are, and the Tzimisce and Lasombra's whole shtick is that they're better than everyone because they were obviously meant to serve as antagonists on their own.
I suppose in a social sense being a Lasombra would absolutely suck shit since you're either a shovelhead or you're gonna get psychologically tortured until your sire gets bored.

>>96958783
Deluded trash.

>>96958863
Trying to negotiate with someone like Bach is not an option. Guess they really overestimated their influence.

>>96958417
You don't need to like it or use it at your table
>>96958848
No it does not. Garou can be flayed without dying. The problem is that kinfolk are not Garou & aren't born into it, not only does it give "unnatural" vibes to the hidebound (pun intended) Garou, but this also "undeservedly" exalts a lowly kinfolk to Garou status.

>>96958919
Banging the srum again for the fact that Tzimisce don't work as PC, because their signature ability is essentially just an excuse to have fucked up environments and even more fucked uo monsters to fight.

>>96958943
>Undeservedly
They would see it that way and cause shit probably. Nevermind asking for Garou pelts is probably a grave offence by itself

>>96958919
>psychologically tortured until your sire gets bored
That's every vampire, sometimes without the sire knowing, pull the other one.

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>>96958943
The ritual requires that the Garou are killed. It literally uses the word "killed."

>>96957902
>What happened in your last one?
We discovered that a witch had bumped off her sister (by turning water which she had already consumed into alcohol while she was driving) and was in the process of seducing her widower.

>>96958967
Eh, not every Garou knows about the requirements to become one, & some fetishes are even made from Garou hide. It's even a punishment to get flayed. An enterprising skin dancer might be able to steal pelts from around the place

>>96958969
They make a whole thing out of Lasombra spending an inordinate amount of time torturing their charges.
Nosferatu, for instance, are pretty much done witg the direct torture once they've made the cleopatra, and the ventrue is always going to hold you on a leash if they can, but the Lasombra just fuck with you until your life is destroyed.

If vampires are so Roman, why doesn't anybody do Saturnalia?

>city was founded by a guy who was raised by a wolf and killed his brother in a fit of jealous rage
>associated with vampires
explain this to me

>>96959017
>Kinfolk asking Garou for their pelt
>Garou not getting suspicious or seething
Seems difficult to believe given that most of that stuff you need Garou pelts for would be used by Garou

>>96959033
They probably do but also
>kine holidays
Try again
>>96959047
Eternal senate that the Ventrue beat themselves off with and decided to get real heavy-handed with when it came to ruling.

>>96959033
V:tr camarilla does saturnalia.

>>96959047
>Gangrel(raised by a literal wolf)
>City
>Founder is a killer who frenzied (like Caine)
Probably the city part is the main thing. Garou don't generally do cities

>>96959047
>Get of fenris are a group of people heavily associated with aristocracy and dark colors chiefly from a population group whose cuisine uses blood as a base ingredient.

>>96959033
setites tried to coopt it and then christmas to just cause mass debauchery and you don't want to be connected to the setites right, anon?

>>96959078
They ruin everything they touch. We should sponsor Set's death.

>>96959075
>Furies celebrate bleeding every month

>>96957902
sold one of my eyes to a demon in exchange for wisdom because we had to do some sort of deal otherwise it wouldn't leave... so now i have perception 7 and int 6 but permanent deathsight and the next time we go back to the chantry (mage not tremere) is probably going to be fun

>>96957902
My hunter game ended and we've got like a month long hiatus before we start Changeling.

>>96959067
Gangrel aren't associated with Rome though

>>96959179
And...? You think the Ventrue want to admit it?

>>96956627
do furies need contaiment? i'll bne honest, i've dopwned two bottles of baltic rum because i'ts my lonely incel 33rd birthday but i really cant gather the hatred to hat furries anymore. who gives a fuck? if they want to LARP in their fursuits and have kinky garou roleplay sex good for them? even if they''''re fatties good for them man. as long as its not teh #1 facet of their personalities and they can hold a job (huge privilge in 2025 i know) at their local walmart or ef el gee ess good for them man. i hope they're happy. i almost wish i could be anti-self-aware (dont know the term ESL sorry) enough to disregard my physical malformities and be like them. we all live a fucked up short life on this cursed earth and if I see otehr people having a good time I'm not going to be ebgruding them anymore.

>>96959195
eh. I'm not much for larp or RP and personally I thought the minor RP going on here was inoffensive. Anyway cheer up anon, WAGMI and all that

>>96959047
>killed his brother in a fit of jealous rage
How could this relate to vampires?

>>96959245
emotion-triggered frenzy

>>96959047
Second part of that phrase already answers it. Also, Romulus and Remus weren't raised by a wolf, she (funnily, the revised players guide lowkey imply it might have been a red talon) just breastfed them for one day before local peasants found them

>>96959245
It relates to werewolves too though. Vampires don't have an event in history literally called the War of Rage where they slaughtered their brethren Fera. Yes, Caine did it too, but the focus there is more on the aftermath.

>>96959245
retelling of caine and abel

>>96958863
Listen, I don't make the rules, if Big G says magic is evil then it's evil.

>>96959245
bros... what if Caine was Garou?

>>96959311
This is all but confirmed, sadly most posters in this thread are secondaries who don't read books.

>>96959362
Would explain why the Demiurge has it out for him.

>>96959362
>Caine was Garou?
>All but confirmed, supposedly in books

Anon, how high are you?

>>96959277
Caine started it. Probably

>>96959391
I'm good, how are you?

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>>96959511
>>96959391

>>96957714
>>96958084
Salubri are Kindred too.

>>96959600
Yes, Baali are.

>>96959600
Since >innocent is in the same spot on both posts there's a cool effect switching between them

>>96959600
oh yeah the guys who got cursed to not be able to drink blood taken by force must be real good guys!

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>>96956601
I'm making a Tremere Japanophile otaku. What disciplines and skills should I focus, but still be useful for combat?

What if the salubri and lasombra were rolled into one clan? For some reason I can't get out of my head the idea of three eyes and control over shadows

>>96959619
Just saw it, quite kino
>>96959600
>Diablerist clan
>Innocent

>>96959676
You'll want to pick a Thaumaturgy Path. I would pick Ushabti so you can bring your gunplay & anime girl figurines to life, though since its a Setite sorcery youll have to ask for permission from your ST. Other than that take Dominate to mind control victims. Also take burning Blade Ritual to have a cool magic katana

>>96959676
>Tremere Japanophile
Foreign language merit, auspex and dominate for the sharingan vibe, optionally grabbing a celerity for the hayai and ignoring thamaturgy entirely
Malkavian would be even better for a Japanophile so that you can imagine yourself a Jojo-stand Tulpa using your disciplines
Interesting idea

>>96959600
If they're not evil then why does true faith hurt them? Checkmate agents of satan.

>>96959729
*gundam & anime girls

>>96959676
If you don't use a Katana with Celerity I'm gonna punt you in the nose.

>>96959676
Physical should be the highest, followed by mental, followed by social as the lowest. Otaku aren't as smart as they think they are. You should scrap thaumaturgy. Malkavian really fits this the best. Celerity and Obfuscate works for edgy shadow weeb stuff. Auspex for cursed eye/sharingan. Drop dominate, it should be a running gag that you can't interact with people. Let other people dominate and use presence. You're the weeb with max hacking for utility and a samurai sword with kendo lessons you learned off of youtube. Instead of dominate grab fortitude or potence, personally I think fortitude works best (retarded weeb who won't go down because of the power of friendship).

Play to your strengths as a weeb or don't play at all.

>>96959858
>>96959770
>>96959734
That's what a weeb would want to be, not what a weeb is, he needs to backdoor his way into being an anime protagonist, not take the obvious path.

>>96959873
He's probably not gonna get 20 sessions to grind and build up to being a proper weeb, and experience gain tends to be slow. It's best to start with what you want or start close to attaining what you want so you don't get disappointed. Unless you're explicitly starting a fledgling chronicle, as a neonate, you should have had plenty of years to hone your disciplines.

>>96959770
>>96959858
He's not playing Ken-sama. His highest attribute should be int 2 while his highest skills are social because of animelove.

>>96959890
Peak retardation. Weebs and otaku are disgusting and awful creatures. You should have negative aura and make close friends with the Nosferatu like the sewer rat you truly are.

>>96959873
>>96959887
>what a weeb would want
>discounting the fact that the weeb already has literal superpowers
I don't know man. If that's the case your weeb kindred should be ninja-maxxing assuming he has had a couple of years to learn the arts

DESU it seems being a Caitiff would be ideal (an ironic twist) to get the perfect build. Though being one would be more difficult than worth playing as one unless he has a benefactor in the shadows...

>>96959915
The issue with Caitiff as a clan is that your ST has to be much more present to negotiate and work your clan curse which is more so the fact that everyone hates you, no one trusts you, and you have to work extra hard to get a discipline teacher . It would be ideal but your ST is more than likely going to make you go through hoops for your build let alone extra cool stuff like Thamaturgy or Vicissitude

>he thinks a weeb has the mental fortitude to study real black magic
hoo boy... wait until you find out what you have to do for certain rituals. I guarantee you that even most seinenfags will nope out of it, and if you've got a shounen anime enthusiast they definitely won't enjoy blood magic.

>>96959997
You'd probably be surprised what semi-crazy people would do if they knew black magic was real

Inside you there are two wolves. Both are Garou.

>>96960037
But I'm not a tardraging dog though?

>>96960037
Are they hot?

>>96960037
I'm not sure I'd survive that spitroast
>>96960051
worse

>>96960055
What can be worse than that?

>>96960037
there are two garou inside me. both are homosexual and also suck and die.

>>96960037
The life of a kinfolk sure can be hard sometimes.

>>96960086
lmao

>>96960055
>I'm not sure I'd survive that spitroast
Reminds me the time a kinfolk took Garou dick in Crinos form. Seems to be a well-kept secret 'cause no kinfolk gossiped about it. I bet it's one of those Kinfolk-exclusive Gifts or Rituals (obviously created by our ST).
Not ditching my ST for that. Quite the opposite: I find it fascinating that a Garou or a Kinfolk once thought to go after a chiminage with a spirit or create a Ritual capable of having sex with Garou Crinos without fucking dying in the process.

a toreador could take on 2 garou at once

>>96960119
In a fight, right?

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Can werewolves really give articulated (if aggressively schizo) speeches in crinos form?

>>96960103
>ST homebrewed a rite to either push his fetish or world build
Relatively based if it's just showing you without making a big deal about it personally. The setting is weird and that's fine, I still don't think every session should have
>X turns into Crinos and immediately begins pounding/amazoning the kinfolk again
>>96960057
They could be not homid. Two Garou in homid is just a threesome, more and it's some kinky shit

>>96960122
a fight of dominance, of course!

>>96960126
Yes, though apparently it's in primal tongue primarily and it's hard to speak normally
>>96960119
>>96960122
One would hope. Celerity and Fortitude surely go pretty far right?

>>96960122
Nope. :)

>>96960126
"Find a werewolf bf"

>>96960053
They're both in Crinos. You decide.

>>96960126
Yes, though in 5th edition you need to kill something every turn or burn willpower to avoid frenzy or whatever

>>96960154
Woof is gay?
>>96960155
This depends, are you a kinfolk and stretchy enough or are you probably going to die

>>96960103
It's not actually the dick size that's the problem (only half again as long and wide, if the rest of Crinos holds), but the fact it's attached to a literal monster several hundred pounds more than the kin is likely to be, who can cause lethal damage with blunt force trauma and whose claws can shred flesh like plasticine. The kin in question would probably have to be riding on top to avoid getting injured or dead.

>>96960141
>Celerity and Fortitude surely go pretty far right?

Celerity, yes. Fortitude, not so much. It's made for lording over humans, not surviving the splatter fest that is a game of W:tA, where their enemies - such as, say, throwback fomori - might decide to break off a piece of a poor lick for fun.

>>96960165
I just handwave that shit aside, would only care for Crinos being mindless zerker form if it's in a war zone or a high stress situation
>>96960184
I'm sure Garou can be gentle unless it's W5 Garou but fortitude should be enough to keep the Toreador alive. I can only assume if the Tory is in that situation they get to get Garou sippies after or during. Which might make it easier to survive

what a %age of woofs are gay

>>96960224
Most.

>>96960224
If we go by the games that have been released including the CYOA, Earthblood, and VNs? Solid 40% of them. Realistically though I'd say maybe close to or below the human average as they need to breed to do their job

>>96960235
>to do their job
>he thinks woofs are 'doing their job'
WHEEZE

>>96960037
No it's just one garou, but it feels like two

>>96960165
It don't matter. Nothing in W5 matters.

Or you could just have a homebrew Gift that makes it so that sex counts as killing something ("the little death").

>>96960204
It'd mostly involve the Garou trying hard not to do a lot of things that normally happen in sex. Don't grab their hips and go, because you'll probably tear them asunder with your claws; don't reach for the chest, because that will end in tears and blood; don't try to hold hands, because you could crush bones easily.

This changes, however, if we're to believe that CoG revised actually describes things in the world that are true and the rite of clouds and rain exists. You'll still have to homebrew the results of the rite, though, because the author forgot to actually detail what they are, unless it's just implied that they can end frenzies without WP.

>>96960246
>The Bane-cursed BSD is back
We keep telling you you aren't getting rid of those

>>96960259
Well I suppose that's where Fortitude comes in to stop the Toreador from having their bones crushed from just handholding. That said though Crinos is strong but it's only like +5 pips of strength right? That's reasonable amounts at 6 to not immediately murder a partner I assume

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So, my character's favorite Elder (Nuncle Pavel) has a lot of explaining to do since he knew that a pack from another sept would be on our turf at that festival, and neglected to tell us that even after we notified him they were there. But we're not out of the woods yet since we just got inside the big ol' Bane when session ended and now have to kill it internally like one of those living levels in a vidya.
Also our theurge probably has to fight one of these other pack's members at the upcoming moot since he kinda got induced by the Bane's 'pollen' into groping the other pack's theurge in a mosh pit

>>96960274
but was the other Theurge into it

>>96960243
Yes yes, damn us all to hell, yes yes.

>>96960246
Johnny, are you sure about that name? Corporate might find that offensive and you know how annoying HR can be these days.

>>96960296
She was pretty sulky when our two packs met up to strategize but ended up nerding out about spirit shit with him. So decidedly maybe.

>>96960310
Then all that's needed is some nerd rizz to avoid a fight probably

>>96960271

+4 dots of Strength, weighs four to five times as much as in Homid, and can deal lethal with punches, kicks and what have you on the occasion they're holding back from using claws (that last one introduced in Revised). I'm not sure that there's a passive Fortitude effect that can actually overcome the situational Wolf of Steel/Vampire of Kleenex, here.

>>96960310
She's already corrupted, Kill her. She's gonna make a metis.

>>96960309
I'm no corporate hound, fiend.

>>96960264
Garou cannot get rid of their sins either, cub

>>96960371
I'm sure some kinfolk or Toreador looked at that and said they could take that two of them though...
>>96960375
Metis aren't real anymore gramps. I'm pretty sure Rockstar Ahroun is playing W5 with the group anyway so Metis are extra not real

>>96960379
Maybe not as a group, but the stains of the Banes and dancing the Spiral on your soul are personal. This is why no one joins the BSD orgies anymore too

>>96960385
That fuck you mean Metis aren't real anymore? Where did they go?

>>96960431
The whole eugenics of Lupus, Homid, Metis, Kinfolk has been handwaved away because it might make someone uncomfortable once. Modern game design type beat

>>96960130
Yeah. This only happened once with Silver Fang player and his NPC wife-to-be, and then never again. Even the player got impressed/shocked by this fact.
My Get of Fenris kinfolk character still didn't marry his NPC Fianna husband (Metis) and they didn't even had real sex. I plan to one day my character to lose his fear of Crinos form and have sex with his husband-to-be in Crinos because... Welp. In my character's logic, it's his breed form. And I always imagine the comedy it'll be when he start to ask around to other kinfolks his trust who are married to Garou if they ever had sex in Crinos form 'til he can track down Silver Fang character's wife. I always laugh at that embarrassing and funny scenario.

>>96960453
>>96960130
>In my character's logic, it's the breed form he was born.
Auto-fixed.

>>96960447
>The whole eugenics

I think you may be a tad confused about what eugenics actually is, anon.

>>96960431
Garou on Garou stuff got removed by Paradox for W5 because it was too problematic I'm actually okay with this change
>>96960447
There's a little bit of eugenics still in W5 but yes kinfolk are gone entirely. I'm not a fan of that change personally though I understand they wanted to simplify the conflicts present in the game for W5. Even if it kinda failed

>>96960447
>>96960480
Goddamnit, Whatever I'll just stay in Old-WoD. They'd never touch my favorite splat anyway then. Hello demon my old friend, we're as unloved as mummy fans again.

>>96960453
What happened? Hopefully everyone lived though
>Metis boning in Crinos because of breed form
Your character may have a few screws loose when Glabro is right there and won't get him killed

>>96960488
WoD 5 is probably never even going to make it to Mage, if it's any consolation Demonbro

>>96960480
It was one of the many necessary changes done in the worst possible fashion. The example of the ahi Nagah and shinju Kitsune were right there, but they said "nope, none of this at all."

>>96960488
Based, they have yet to touch mage either thankfully. Luckily you can just use W5 as a scenario or a module and ignore all the stupid shit they have like the Cult or kinfolk or what have you. W5 is at least quite good on incorporating modern technology shit into the setting

>>96960489
Or even the compromise of "Glabro in the streets, Crinos in the sheets" that partial shapeshifting makes possible. Might knock yourself out from a strained blood supply, though.

>>96960385
Taking two requires putting all five dots in Courage.

>>96960491
Don't count your stars just yet, Paradox might give you Mage5 if they have anything to say about it. They haven't defended nu-White Wolf yet
>>96960492
Maybe, both changes are handled rather poorly but I understand they wanted to get away from pack Politics and leave that to Vampire, though I'm somewhat worried W5 is probably going to stay a meat-slap game where you just get fight all day. Even worse what this would mean for mage when they inevitably miss the forest for the trees and just go
>Muh Magic

>>96960496
Just willpower your way into the werewolf threesome you always wanted. I'm somewhat surprised Book of Hungry Names doesn't have any dangerously furry scenes like that

>>96960501
Even worse than just being a game where you fight, it's a game where the injuries don't have the weight that they used to because instead of battle scars we get Harano and Hauglosk being the center of the game, where Harano used to be on the periphery of play, and for good reason - it was treated as a serious psychological issue that constantly wore at a Garou instead of just acting the part of "oh, you have it. Make a new character."

You could fight Harano. You might not win, but you could fight it, before W5.

>>96960392
My soul is worthless, I made it worthless, & if I can trade my worthless soul for something of such value like redeeming the wyrm then what a vile trick that would be! Imagine that one pitiable garou for the Wyrm restored! Not even Coyote could pull of a trick like that!

>>96960511
No more Appearance Attribute = every Glabro is a Fair Glabro!

>>96960525
Tragic eh. Well, WoD5 seems to focus a lot more on personal horror than anything else

>>96960495
>>96960491
Are we talking like.. the company is gonna get resold again "won't make it to M5" or they just will give up?

Cause I've read M20 Mage/technocracy newest few additions and man.

>>96960543
Still a weird homunculus form but apparently it spooks people enough for the delirium to make them forget you. Assuming delirium didn't get changed for W5

>>96960555
To the detriment of everyone, even a large portion of the Vampire mains.

>>96960559
Considering TCRs version of Bloodlines wasn't a total loss and Paradox is more than used to bleeding money in retarded projects, it's more like they'll only focus on publishing books before looking to sell white wolf. They stated their goal was to develop the IP and only lease it out for video games rather than funding their own

>>96960559
Could be either/or. Bloodlines 2 isn't raking in cash hand over fist, so they're probably either going to sell the property off or do what Microsoft did with the FASA Interactive IPs and just squat on them for 20 years. Depends on how the board decisions shake out.

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>>96960525
Harano has been 'game-ified' but it's still a 'meter' that you earn and are presumably going to roleplay the onset of. It's not just something you get out of the blue and your character is gone.

>>96960569
>>96960577
well thank you anon's for filling me in. It truly do be some suffering hours I guess.

>>96960568
Yeah that's mostly my assessment. Can't wait for M5 to just be schizophrenia simulator and Paradox rolls

>>96960578
In the same way that Hit Points in D&D are a component of game, which means that there's a strict binary in how it operates. So, yes, from the perspective of any character, even themselves, it is a case of suddenly getting it and then leaving play.

Shitty game, shitty gamification.

>>96960582
It do be sadly. Maybe we're coping and Mage 5 might actually be good, Paradox seems to have understood that WoD5 thus far hasn't pleased fans

>>96960613
Your ST would have to be a clinical low-functioning autist to play it like that, but sure go off.

>>96960612
>Can't wait for M5 to just be schizophrenia simulator and Paradox rolls
Funny enough, a M5 fanmade game centered the theme around being going mad slowly by magic until you become a marauder ('cause now world sucks even more and consensus is killing hard on magic). So everyone begins with a Quiet meter and the stronger you are, more Quiet you get. Arete is still at thing though. And yes, there is Paradox dices.

>>96960632
If it were actually gamified, one would imagine that there would be greater care taken to preserve or establish the proper feeling of the mechanic instead of just setting up a meter and calling it a day.

But this is W5 we're talking about, so we get two meters to hasten the downfall of any and every character and a message between the lines that the creative director thinks that we're wastes of oxygen and fascists for showing interest in W:tA. That is the message that I pick up from that.

It's bad game design. No tension, no escalation, no payoff.

>>96960638
>Schizophrenia but not the fun kind
I can see it. I remember it in some earlier threads

>>96960650
NTA but why are you pretending you read the book?

>>96960659
>Any legitimate criticism of book and surrounding fallout
>Claim that they didn't read the book

I can read the book twice in an empty afternoon, because it's very, very light compared to the information density of the past editions, anon. I've followed read-alongs from when it launched, along with the attendant analysis of what it meant out of the box, and I read it for myself a year later.

So drop this shit, will you? It might do well for the white wolf reddit, but here, you don't have mods to delete posts for you.

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>>96960668
Then you are quite obviously misrepresenting it hoping that nobody here has read it. It's not arbitrary "rocks fall your character is gone".

>>96960696
How is it not? There's no interaction between Harano and Hauglosk and any other system. Again, it's like HP in D&D - a lot of mounting damage dealt with abstractly until the character dies.

Now, perhaps you can tell me how the fuck Renown is supposed to exist when the Garou Nation is gone and no one knows anything about it.

>>96960727
>No Garou Nation means septs and caerns in the same states/regions/countries aren't talking to each other at all
Retard.

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baka desu senpai

>>96960744
And those fractious septs aren't likely to have a universal standard of social cache between them. Renown in W5 is a relic of a past edition that only exists because when W5 isn't badly repeating Apocalypse, it's badly copying Forsaken. Yet another example when a whole different new set of traits was called for and was never created.

I really wish the other splats had something equivalent to the Henku Attributes 6-8. I'd be so much more interesting than generic stat pool enhancement.

>>96960759
>Fails to recognize that sociopaths are human too, and that base humanity is already capable of unspeakable acts of inhumanity
>The curse didn't damn us. The gift freed us.
V5 writers are a bunch of snowflake faggots.

>>96960976
it's the "you've no choice" that gets me the most. what a childish way of looking at morality

>>96960480
Is Pure Breed still in or is that gone?

How many dots in Life would a mage need to physically molest a werewolf? Like sticking your thumb up its butt.

>>96961217
Just use Mind.

Why is this game line filled with shitty leftists? I left their discord because of how much of an echo chamber it was. Last I checked they equates any populist or authoritarian as fascist. They definitions would make any ancient autocratic empires fascist before the ideology was conceived.

>>96961395
>discord
That was your first mistake.

>>96961395
Are you talking about V5? Yeah, it's total cancer. Stick to V20 or earlier editions, and you have to find your own group or forever be a nogamesfriend.

>>96961217
You don't need any magic for that.
>>96961395
If you are talking about official discord, it is a cesspool of yesman and those who don't know any better.

>>96957902
Our 3 young Garou were lured out to an isolated Washington mining town by the presence of a lost artifact and an escaped enemy. We prepared a car bomb, expecting that we'd find a nest of Spirals, or maybe that the escaped enemy would have a fortified position. Instead, we found an evil mine owner that was semi-intentionally aggravating the local Red Talons, and had dozens of armed goons shooting at anything canine, to the point the Red Talons were preparing to wipe out the town.

We spent last session running around the town, gathering human allies (including 2 suspected werewolf hunters!) to overthrow the mine owner, so that we can blow up his mine and hand him (and his shitty adult children) to the Talons as a peace offering. Our pack leader nabbed the second son. But if the peace offering fails (as it likely will), our new allies will be needed to evacuate the town. Because the Red Talons only gave us 2 days before they launch their assault. Oh, and my character's main contribution to our last fight was to... kill a rabid squirrel with a thrown hatchet...

>>96959047
Love that UHR DUHR WOLVES WAR YADA YADA MIGHTY EMPIRE is actually purview of Glass Walkers because "lynchpin of human civilization"

Being a Silent Strider seems hella based
>Knock up bitches and then bounce
>Welcomed at almost every Caern
>Be TWICE as fast as the average Garou at worst
>Get to interact with ghost babes
>TOTAL LEECH DEATH
>In an eternal feud with Set himself

>>96961395
>discord
Anon, that's a platform for homosexual pehodphiles.

>>96961634
Are there any platforms that aren't?

>>96961668
Try Nostr, it doesn't seem to have as pronounced a preference for gay nonces.

>>96960235
You know you don't have to like it to cum in a pussy, right?

>>96960759
maybe the real Eternal Struggle was the friends we lost along the way

>>96961395
WoD has always pegged itself as left wing. How is this news to you? That's not a WoD5 addition.

>>96961577
>Welcomed at almost every Caern
Explicitly not that part. The Striders are often seen as bad omens in themselves and some Septs will bar you from entering the caern as the tribe is known to be cursed.

>>96961769
"Left wing" of 90's would be "far right antisemitic conspiracy theorists" today.

>>96961782
No, read the books retard. They're unmistakably liberal even by today's standards.

>>96961776
>some Septs will bar you from entering the caern as the tribe is known to be cursed
Guess they didn’t need this info after all. Psssh, get fucked hosers.

>>96961784
Maybe from an identity politics standpoint, like they're not nationalist or patriarchal, but in terms of actual ideas about society, they're sometimes quite reactionary. Most of the games are about shit like how there's not enough spirituality in the modern world, how equality means the "lowest common denominator" ruling, etc.

>>96962000
I say this in this general often enough that people have probably become sick of it, but the politics of old White Wolf align more with liberalism. As in, private property and individual rights and freedom of expression liberalism. They're anti-authoritarian for sure and in a lot of cases, against any form of big government. Whenever communism and socialism are mentioned, it's usually with a lot of derision and mockery on the side, especially since White Wolf's peak was during the 90s after the downfall of the Soviet Union. However, they absolutely go out of their way to celebrate different cultures, different spiritual practices, different ways of living and different ways of loving people and expressing yourself. The politics of White Wolf can be described as "be whoever you want to be, do whatever you want to do, and fuck anyone who demands anything of you."

>>96962041
I feel like there's some Ayn Rand type shit in there as well, especially in Mage and Changeling, in how the masses are part of the enemy, keeping the true individuals down with Paradox and Banality.

>>96962099
I get that loudest from Demon. Human faith can replace God but they won't do anything with it themselves.

>>96962099
Talk to any leftist. That's their exact feeling about the idiot masses. Hell, even talk to a liberal and ask them about their opinions the people who vote right wing.

>>96962218
Expert Mode: Ask leftists what should have been done with the people who refused to get quarantined or vaccinated.

>>96962000
Those calls to spirituality are explicitly a rejection of Christianity. You can read as much in the essays they include at the backs of most of the Player's and ST's Guides.

>>96962099
That factors into the "don't be a sellout, don't go corporate, don't become a part of the system, don't do what the man tells you to do" punk side of the World of Darkness. It's the idea that your true self has to be something individualistic and mould-breaking and radical and unique, that people can't find satisfaction from being part of a collective or in a mundane existence.

>>96962000
While the decline of community and spiritually have been a negative it's hard to see a scenario where that doesn't happens when you give people easy access to information. Like why would you stay in a community like Jehovah Witness when you know how full of shit they are and have a guide on how to form connections afterwards?

>Doing research for a historical game
>Realize that if I portray things too accurately I'd probably get accused of magical realming

The one downside of having a group that isn't filled with perverts.

>>96962099
Changeling is about a breed of people who can't be mundane, what did you expect?

>>96962419
What scenario are you using? Persia, Greece, Rome?

>>96960578
Maybe I'm misremembering things but Harano triggers were a thing before weren't they?

>>96959676
Just get Thaumaturgy like everyone else.

>>96959693
I would ask why those two but I don't see anything besides the imagery. Memes aside I really don't see how shadows and healing could be unified into something coherent.

>>96962432
Imperial Russia actually. Though the statement is broadly true for many places and times.

>>96961530
>Allying with two suspected werewolf hunters
You think they know? Anyway that's an interesting premise

>>96962558
I'm sure there's enough weird shit to write a normal game around.

>>96962558
>Imperial Russia
It's just a bunch of peasant shit and forced industrialization, how is that magic realming?

>>96962558
>>96962579
On a similar note, what's the magical realm in this case?

>>96962585
Their aristocracy got up to some weird shit, even if most of the shit about Catherine the Great was made up.

>>96962594
Every type of European aristocracy did, what between the inbreeding and weird orgies/parties/areas of study

>>96962585
Depraved orgies and fucking the servants?

>>96962598
Tbh is there any aristocracy in the history of mankind that did not do weird sex stuff?

>>96962599
>>96962618
Exactly, it's not particularly that unique to Imperial Russia, and depending in the splat you're playing there's plenty of weird shit in there already. Surely your players don't mind the occasional weird nobility sex orgy or abused servant plotline if it isn't overused

>>96962618
No. Some were better at opsec than others.

>>96962633
Having a few, dozen, bastards is the duty of every Garou. Memes aside, I think it's a problem along the lines of "we aren't going to depict this shit out of fear of someone getting too into it and making everyone else uncomfortable".

>>96962618
>>96962634
Some of them were focused on other things besides sex but hunting and whatever else really took a nose dive.

>>96962618
Well there was this one family that met with a talent agent...

>>96962652
>Not being a good if somewhat deadbeat parent
Average Garou seeking glory before honor

>>96962652
>Someone going to get too into it
I think that's always going to be the case. Maybe as a solution the ST could probably prepare players for a violent encounter but then end up in one of those weird plots where there's way too witnesses, but players still have a goal they have to do quickly. Ultimately you're always going to have one dude trying to derail or get a bit too into it, and I think that's fine. As long as the guy is aware enough not to immediately talk about the weird perverted shit he wanted to do. That being said tho WoD is pretty weird as is so surely it can't be that bad
>t. Clueless

>>96959245
Literally the first vampire is Caine, whose crime was killing his brother in a fit of jealous rage.
>>96962598
The Russian aristocracy kept up the total separation from tge lower classes longer than other European aristocrats. Some Russian academies were still solely for gentry and old aristocratic ladies were still making party invitations that would decide foreign policy by the start of ww1.

If i were to set a game in Italy how much bigger should the influence of the Giovanni and Lasombra be?
Like do they replace the camarilla and anarchs as the default vampire government?

>>96962585
>>96962593
>>96962633
Relative to cultures that practiced shit like pederasty, yeah it's really tame. It's just abnormal, which would make it seem more magical realm-y than if it were well-attested and commonly understood such as the aforementioned pederastic societies or cultures with harems/concubines. But, and I shit you not you can look this up, for some reason Imperial Russia had a tickling fetish. Mostly in the 19th century.

Allegedly, it was popular as a weird form of foreplay in the aristocracy. It's attested to in the memoirs of an exiled Russian noble, Prince Pyotr Dolgorukov, and saw it cited as a source in at least one academic paper. Catherine the Great is also commonly credited for being into that shit, but it's Catherine the Great so hard to know what's legit and what's libel. It was also listed as a way to help people sleep, and not exclusive to the aristocracy in Golgol's Dead Souls, which doesn't really make sense, and sometimes it's translated as scratching rather than tickling, and unfortunately there are limited translated to English accounts. I can't recall the exact page, and maybe research-related sleep deprivation has caused me to hallucinate this, but I swear the Brothers Karamazov has a festival where everyone is tickling some woman's feet during it. honestly the period is a bitch and a half to research because there's so few works translated and so much hearsay and rumor coming from western europe which liked to use Russia as a bit of a cultural punching bag.

Related to folklore and the supernatural, there's also the Rusalka, who in many accounts kills her victims by dragging them underwater and tickling them. Which would of course make them laugh, causing them to suck in water and drown.

Now is this the bush leagues when it comes to societal perversion? Yes. Because it's the bush leagues it'd come off as too specific and way more magical realmy than other, more extreme cases.

>>96962706
Yes that's true, but other Euro countries and Japan were doing the same earlier in history and similar around the time if world war 1. I believe European nobility only began to lose cultural influence post 1930

>>96962711
Is this a setting ignoring V5? Then yeah probably, though, I'd set areas closer to Rome and Sicily as Sabbat/independent and areas further north as Camarilla considering the influence of the Vienna chantry

>>96959297
>>96962706
Guys, I was making fun. I thought it was pretty clear that I knew about Caine when I quoted the part of that post that clearly relates to wod's vampiric origin.

>>96962711
There aren't that many Lasombra in Italy in the modern nights. Milan was one of the few Sabbat holdouts in the area and its Archbishop defected to the Camarilla during the Revised Metaplot.

The Giovanni are weird and honestly most of the time don't make sense. Augustus Giovanni himself chills in Venice, but Venice is also a city so Camarilla that the Inner Circle apparently like to meet there.

So my advice is... don't overthink it or be too reliant on what canon says, do whatever you want with Italy.

>>96962711
Giovanni have pretty specifically stuck themselves to Venice and only Venice. Officially anyway. So the rest of it, outside of maybe the furthest northern bit, would be in Lasombra hands. As for replacing governments? Maybe? They might nominally be Camarilla or Sabbat but I'd say southern Italy, and maybe the middle too, is fully Lasombra.

Do fuzzy werewolf twinks like belly rubs

>>96962717
An important part of reading Dostoyevsky is understand Russian culture at the time and not taking things at face value yeah. I'm sure if your players are interested in a Russian setting they're bound to understand that Russia is a weird, depressive place. They're probably expecting a lot of drinking, depression, and murder so I wouldn't sweat using weird stuff as sort of black comedy filler

>>96962681
Why would you give a shit about your bastards unless they are to be used? If anything being close to them only gives them more reasons betrayal and resentment towards the garou as a whole.
They either should develop their powers on their own to show their worthiness of conscription or serve as stock before being left alone. Anything else is just begging for a turncoat at the worse possible moment.

>>96962744
The Giovanni are also not at war with the Camarilla so I'm sure as long as they aren't acting up there's no reason for anyone to care, unlike the Sabbat. And even then, I'm pretty sure Sabbat leadership clans like Lasombra are much more welcome by the Camarilla than shovelheads

>>96962717
>But, and I shit you not you can look this up, for some reason Imperial Russia had a tickling fetish. Mostly in the 19th century.
... Sure, sounds reasonable enough.

>>96959047
Shadow Lords canonically had a large presence in the Roman Republic.

>>96962752
Yes.

>>96962760
Talk like that is why the Garou get memed on, but I suppose it depends on the thoe of Garou you're roleplaying. Could not see depressed samurai, retarded dudebro, or tard wrangler getting up to that. Maybe if you were roleplaying some Gaia first Woof ala Shadow Lords or Get that just want to pump those numbers up instead of other tribes that are either too snobby or hate humans to go shack up with just about any human. also I'm fairly certain making kinfolk like that is against the Litany on account of being a massive risk if they breed with each other

>>96962779
>Political schemer tribe but instead of dreaming about fucking wolves they actually fuck wolves
I could see that, would be pretty on par for Rome

>>96962761
There's a difference between not being at war with a third party and holding your most important discussions right next to all their heavy hitters with a shitload of ghost spies. The Camarilla generally gets really dumb whenever the writers remember the Giovanni exist and involve them. Honestly the Gios don't get as much shit as the other three independent clans in terms of dumb lore, and yeah they're definitely the least offensive of the bunch, but I still think they're kinda poorly written.

Also, the Lasombra are the last motherfuckers I would welcome if I were in the Camarilla. Their entire reputation is based on being manipulative violent psychos.

>>96962717
>Related to folklore and the supernatural, there's also the Rusalka, who in many accounts kills her victims by dragging them underwater and tickling them. Which would of course make them laugh, causing them to suck in water and drown.
Just normal tempter activities.

>>96962694
It's mostly the effort necessary to handle the topic just isn't worth it when omitting it almost entirely does just fine.

>>96962785
>Spoiler
How so?

>>96962706
>tge
I hate it when you've made a typo more than once so autocorrect decides that's what you actually mean
>>96962719
Sure, but Russia kept doing it for longer and in ways that uniquely interacted with modernity.
Village elder was still a major political institution during the reign of Stolypin, and his reforms were killed because local gentry believed he was infringing on their feudal rights.
The Zemstvo organised most parts of the ww1 local efforts outside of St. Petersburg and Moscow which while being created in the late 19th century were organised around institutions dating back to the Kievan Rus and included village elders an integral part of the bureaucracy.
It is a fairly unique historical phenomenon. You had ancient tartar houses headed by cross dressing industrialists having feud with court mystics which included stuff like where to import machine gun parts from.

>>96962797
>Manipulative violent psychos
>Complaining about that in an org run by Ventrue and usurpers like Tremere
If the shoe fits though I suppose
>>96962805
Personally, I saw a little bit is fine as a bit of comedy. Like you go investigate a noble and you find out he's having a depraved sex party so you sneak in but then it turns into human sacrifice. It's all a matter of how you play it up and handle it, but I do agree generally that stuff is a lot more work than you'd want. A little bit of weird fetish content is alright though in my book as long as you aren't taking a pause to describe every thrust some NTR ugly bastard is taking or something like that

>>96962813
>Kinfolk breed with kinfolk
>This can produce a Garou without any guidance
>Garou chimps out during change, kills kinfolk parents (big no-no)
>Garou chimping out breaks veil (2nd big no-no)
>Garou chimp out causes string of murders and memory loss that Werewolf Hunters look for (3rd big no-no)
Leaving kinfolk unattended is a recipe for disaster as the book likes the spell it out

>>96962821
>Industrialists feuding with court mystics
This sounds based, I wish more settings than Arcanum did that

>>96962833
It's not a matter of claiming the moral high ground, it's about recognizing the threat about letting the enemy into your house under blatantly false pretenses.

>>96962748
Is it a bit odd to anyone else that the mafia inspired clan is mostly active in Northern Italy?
But okay. Giovanni don't get involved in running cities outside of Venice. Thanks. Good to know.
>>96962744
That's probably good advice. Especially because I'm sure there's conflicting lpre about who holds what if i dig into it.

>>96962855
Fair enough, though I would think that Camarilla elders would have more respect for Sabbat elders who are basically doing the same thing they're doing, outside of the Tremere and the Tzimisce who hate each other for existing

>>96962882
But they aren't doing the same thing. The camarilla exists for the purpose of empowering elders. The sabbat encourage stuff like diablerie and naked ambition against previous generations.
If you as a lasombra unseat a bishop the response from other lasombra is "cool, hope you kept him around so he can be eaten later".

>>96962882
Well you have to remember the Sabbat and Camarilla came out of the same civil war. For all the Elders old enough to remember a time before, their opposites have been the enemy since night one. They've probably killed each other's childer, or sires. For those that came after, they've both been indoctrinated to believe the other side is anathema to everything they stand for. Besides which, respecting a worthy foe is a potential weak point that could be exploited, and generally the most cutthroat and cautious vampires are the ones who survive to be elders.

All of which is to say, yeah, the Camarilla still happily welcomed an old guard Sabbat turncoat, and a Lasombra at that... after they were certain he would agree to every single one of their demands, there was no double-cross involved, and they were getting a major old world city out of it. Giangaleazzo must have really hated the modern Sabbat to do what he did. He helped the Camarilla butcher every Sabbat in his city save himself, tore up the OG copy of the Code of Milan after publicly denouncing the Sabbat, and all just so he could be Prince instead of Archbishop. He had to really sell the Camarilla on his commitment to be let in to the club.

Like most things in VTM, it isn't that it can't happen or shouldn't happen. It's that oftentimes people see a noteworthy exception and then make it the rule at their table.

>>96962752
Depends on your end goals

>>96962845
There's also the fourth con, which is that any lost cub produced in this manner might be picked up by the Black Spiral Dancers, Pentex, DNA or some other antagonistic group and used to further their agenda.

>>96963001
That's another one yeah
>>96962989
>>96962914
I suppose you guys make a good point. I just figure that if the Camarilla are going to even entertain being near or allowing Sabbat to exist temporarily it would be some clan leadership rather than some random dudes breaking the masquerade every day

>>96962880
The mafia connection to the Giovanni always felt a bit forced, especially with their lack of Sicillian control and no significant presence in the U.S.'s eastern seaboard.

>>96963026
I mean it's not unheard of for Camarilla and Sabbat cities to be next to each other, but that's usually because neither side has the manpower or executive vigor to make a move on each other.

Also, it's not like the Sect's leadership and the shovelheads are somehow divorced from each other. Sabbat leadership already doesn't do much to police the shovelheads. Shovelheads without leadership might be breaking the masquerade once a night instead of once a week, but shovelheads without leadership would also be a cakewalk for the Camarilla. Put another way, you can't have one type of Sabbat without the other. Shovelheads exist because the True Sabbat like having cannon fodder to throw at the Camarilla.

Maybe an individual Elder prefers the older Sabbat to the new because they have at least a modicum of restraint. Maybe they hate them because they're a bigger threat, or for a personal vendetta. It's more of a personal Elder to Elder thing than official policy.

>>96962880
>>96963043
Giovanni are the oldest bank still operating in the world. Gangs are games for teaching fledglings the principles of really organized crime.

>>96963128
"One lawyer with his briefcase can steal more money in a day than a hundred gangsters with their guns."

>>96963128
So what your saying is that the Giovanni should hate the Ventrue above everyone because of an ancestral turf feud.

>>96962748
>Giovanni have pretty specifically stuck themselves to Venice and only Venice.
a bit off topic but fun fact: the giovanni wanted to use the fallout of the recent sect wars to go full vulture mode in north america but just as they been preparing to move the malestrom happened and the entire clan had to go into crisis mode

>>96963404
That's pretty funny, I thought Giovanni necromancy didn't depend on souls though when it came to zombies

>>96963524
Can't do proper ghost spycraft without the ghosts.
Not every Giovanni can be Isabel

>>96960274
>So, my character's favorite Elder (Nuncle Pavel) has a lot of explaining to do since

Be sure to ask him with the all the peaceful level-headedness and composure that it is NOT a problem for you to mantain at all times in all situations. It's not like you're should be at risk of flying off the handle at the merest slight.

>>96963524
only for zombies all their other necromancy got weird (either stronger but more dangerous or harder) and they lost the vast majority of their already bound wraiths

although htr does mention that the figured out how to control wraith zombies inbetween htr's zombie book and the giovanni revised clan book

>>96963641
Yeah, what this guy said. Don't forget to make a Rage roll when you open the fridge in the morning and discover that there aren't any eggs left. You also need to make a Rage roll when you arrive at the bus stop, only to discover that the bus has just left the station. The guy at the burger joint put pickles in your burger? Rage roll. Delivery driver doesn't have a pen to offer you when you need to sign for a delivery? Rage roll. Computer starts up a little slower than usual? Rage roll. Remember, you're not playing a person, you're playing an autistic rage monster.

>>96963754
>Remember, you're not playing a person, you're playing an autistic rage monster.

You are tho

>>96963754
>>96963862
It's definitely a bit hyperbolic. It should be difficult but I think if your ST is making you roll rage at a minor inconvenience and not
>Person is being a completely unreasonable asshole
Then maybe you probably shouldn't be playing WtA. It's not as if the inverse is good either, maybe someone should get up in your face and make you hulk out every now and then. Balance is pretty key though I think because the ST is new perhaps they're getting away with being more reasonable than they should be for their auspice

>>96963908
You seem upset. Make a Rage roll.

>>96964079
I'm gonna make a rape roll instead. Bend over.

>>96964083
You got it, daddy.

>>96961530
>Oh, and my character's main contribution to our last fight was to... kill a rabid squirrel with a thrown hatchet...
The squirrel would have revealed at a critical moment it was actually a Nexus Crawler in disguise. You did the right thing.

>>96964079
Got ragebaited, failed. Guess it's time to go murder half the town

>Apep is the Balance Wyrm
>Apophis is the Triatic Wyrm
>Set made an undead save state of Apep, who he worshiped, and used the Setites as "good guy devils" that would accumulate faith and master sin so they could restore the save state and cure the Wyrm
Rate my headcanon/protagonist cope

>>96964158
Settite propaganda

>>96964158
so while saulot nearly nearly turned himself into a wright and made the baali the setite in your setting already figured out how to be cainie devil tigers

did the whole "the cult became corrupted by apophis during the dark ages" thing still happen then?

>>96964188
Oh yeah, Apep hasn't been getting fed correctly in centuries. Sure hope there's enough left of the state to restore!

The difference in capability is out of intent rather than competence; Set had the specific goal of saving his God, and had to get cosmic to do that. Saulot was just trying to invent Golconda and didn't have a good idea of what it would look like, that's why he couldn't do Noble Demon Shintai or whatever the Golconda god-body would have been called.

>>96961530
Rabies has a 100% mortality rate in humans, you went for the most dangerous foe.

>>96962845
Kinfolk on kinfolk is how the majority of Garou are born, just by the numbers game. The only Garou actually born within Garou culture are Metis, everyone else is going through their first change alone as there is no way to tell who's going to be wolf and who's going to be kin. Most kinfolk are entirely unaware of the Garou or Gaia or any of that, as even telling them is seen as a violation of the Litany itself. The only thing helping secure Garou after their first change are kin fetches, which alert the nearest Sept about what is going on. This general has a weird idea that kinfolk are tightly controlled, and that's just not what the books present. Raping someone's sister for Gaia is a great way to get a klaive to the face and kick off a series of honor killings.

>>96964333
>is seen as a violation of the litany itself
This seems like a major shot in the foot. Was it set up in the immediate aftermath of the Impergium?

>>96964333
So what they're just kept in weird compounds and not told anything? Seems a bit flimsy. Anyway the specifics of the post was that Garou probably wouldn't go around imperial Russia leaving 10ish bastards to fuck off back home. Afaik they tend to keep a close eye on them anyway

>>96964158
>>96964253
still not the greatest fan but i like it far more than the usual/canon snake cultist take

>>96964333
Imagine explaining to a packmate you're breeding his sister for Gaia or something, that'd go over pretty funnily

>>96964354
The best way to keep a secret is to limit the number of people in on it. >>96964375
>compounds
No, kinfolk go and lead normal lives, and sometimes their deadbeat relation shows up asking to sleep on the couch. The way I run it as an ST is that the Kinfolk background is the number of kinfolk in your orbit who actually know the whole deal going on. Some tribes are much more permissive, such as CoG and Fianna, and if you go by the Silver Crown, Silver Fang kinfolk seem to be in the know. Pumping out bastards would be seen as fine ONLY if you get your theurge to attach kin-fetches to your partners before ditching them.

>>96964492
There's keeping a secret and non-integration when part of how you operate effectively requires integration

>>96964492
Damn, kinfolk life increasingly shown to be sucky

>>96964532
>be kinfolk
>have a daughter
>find a convent that will take her before mutant outlaw cousins catch the scent

Explain to me what differences exist between the sects of Vtr compared to the ones in Vtm

>>96964607
>drop her off at a covenant
>it's the Order of Our Merciful Mother
Gaia works in mysterious ways.

>>96964607
If Silver Fangs true, otherwise
>Be kinfolk
>Have daughter
>Find someplace to take her before your mutant outlaw cousin's even more retarded friend gets any ideas
>He burns down the nunnery anyway and confronts you about worms or something

>>96964658
>>96964678
This is the shit that drives kinfolk to go Stolen Moon.

>>96964532
Yep, it's either: Dealing with your retarded death cult family or having to hide who you're related to from [insert enemy from Garou's long list of enemies[