>>97019195
we had so much fun playing this edition

>>97019195
one of the most ancient stories involving werewolves according to old WOD involved roman soldiers and scythians/dacians. Why is there not a single blurb about werewolves in Russia?

>>97019290
Oбopoтeнь (oboroten', meaning "shapeshifter" or "one who turns around").
Boлкoлaк (volkolak, from "volk" meaning wolf and "dlak" meaning fur, literally "wolf-pelt")

Unlike Western werewolves, they retain human intelligence in animal form and may not be inherently evil. But can be cursed or attack a loved one without realizing it.

positive or neutral roles:

The Gray Wolf (Cepый Boлк) in tales like Tsarevich Ivan, the Firebird, and the Gray Wolf (Ивaн-цapeвич, Жap-птицa и Cepый Boлк) is a wise, magical helper who aids the hero Ivan, carrying him vast distances and shapeshifting into humans or horses when needed. This wolf is an "oboroten'" ally, not a monster.

In The Tale of Ivan Tsarevich and the Winged Wolf or similar variants, a winged or shapeshifting wolf assists the protagonist.

Heroes themselves often shapeshift temporarily (e.g., into animals for disguise or escape), as in byliny (epic poems) featuring figures like Volga Vseslavich, who turns into wolves or other beasts.

Evil shapeshifters exist but are more often witches (вeдьмы), sorcerers like Koschei the Deathless or other assholes.

differences from western ones;

Transformation is usually magical and reversible, not lunar or infectious.

Werewolf-like figures may symbolize ancient warrior initiations (young men ritually "becoming wolves" in forest bands) or dual nature rather than horror.

Confusion sometimes arises with "vurdalak" (вypдaлaк), a term Pushkin borrowed for werewolf but which evolved to mean a type of vampire in some contexts.

>>97019290
>dacians
had wolf symbols aplenty so this is expected. See Zalmoxis and rites of passage.

>>97019290
Scythians also fought as wolf-warriors, some of their youths being “valiant dogs.”

Even Mycenaeans very likely had wolf-warriors.

>>97017723
Yeah, thinking about it more, you're right, if she turns up in my games she's gonna be CoG or something.

Also FWIW it's not gay and trans people that ruined W5, it was an arab guy. Apparently the amerindians they hired and the genderthings wanted less drastic metaplot changes and didn't even like the 9-5 thing or losing Kinfolk. He REEEEE'd and fired them all to enforce his headcanon on the setting.

>>97019195
post some art from this edition

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>>97019517

>>97019576
What if instead of Black Furies they were called Plaque Furies and they were really concerned about dental hygiene?

>>97019195
I don't think we need a general just for WtA. How many people even play it/run it here?

>>97019874
/wodg/ is plagued by a bunch of secondaries who came from the Hunter the Parenting threads on /co/, who flood the general with banal WtA banter and RP.

I even made the /gwnet/ threads specifically so that they would stop roleplaying in /wodg/, which became borderline unusable due to their incessant RP. But they still plague the general and you can't go more than a couple of hours without them posting all of the same old memes. So if this thread gets them out of /wodg/, I'm all for it.

>>97019986
That doesn't answer my question m8: How many people even play it/run it here?
Like seriously, I feel like I'm the only WtA Narrator currently active in general.

>>97019986
you sound thin-skinned, we're going to keep talking about Werewolf in /wodg/

>>97020060
Case in point.

>>97020089
You've been throwing a tantrum for a couple weeks now.

>>97019995
There's also the guy with his W5 pretty Ahroun that triggers someone's probably OP's autism.

>>97019986
I get it but, we did not need a WtA thread specifically to isolate WtA posting. I doubt anyone's including me gonna stop posting WtA discussion over genuine questions and funny shit. Considering the general is slow as it is it's not like any discussion is missed though I'd rather talk about mage but there's just nothing to talk about

>>97020135
Good for thing, I'm impressed I'm not the only playing this game anymore, congratulations to W5 for managing that.

>>97020300
W5 and V5 are just
>Newest thing
And also pretty accessible from a character creation pov unfortunately. I'm happy anons and people can play it more but I'm not terribly pleased over the changes though that argument has been repeated here ad nauseum

>>97020327
It doesn't bother me to be their own thing because for classic Werewolf I just use Revised+20A and it works well, so I don't really need a "new" edition just for metaplot reasons.

>>97020300
>>97020327
I'm not exactly thrilled that it's W5 but my buddy offered to run it because he bought the book at a Con and allowed me to take a break from DMing.

>>97020454
I agree enough yeah. I don't inherently hate W5 but I'd much rather do 20th if I can ever get a group going again

>>97020471
That's all fair and good friend don't worry. Some games is better than no games

>>97020471
As long as you and your friends are having fun at the table, the rest is negligible. Specially if your friend doesn't really care about the previous metaplot and is starting from zero, then W5 shouldn't be a problem.

>>97019290
Well, WW made an entire book for this, it's called Rage Across Russia. It's pretty old, but there are updates in A World of Rage for the turn of the century and for the 2010s in the W20 version of that.

>>97019290
>>97021146
WW1 Woofs would be pretty kino but I know WW1 as a whole is underexplored

>>97019995
I've been running a W20 campaign for over one year and a half now. Me and one of the players used to play W:tA all the time back in the 00s so I'm doing this out of nostalgia. I usually hang out in the /osrg/ since that's what I've been into this last decade or so.

I can't but assume many W:tA GMs are in my situation: grognards in their 30s-40s, with no interest in discussing modern WoD nor engaging with its community.

Sorry.

>>97021237
I'm trying to ease my group into WoD before I run something I want to play more than VtM

>>97021254
If I can be honest it's hard for me to understand how anyone under 30 would want to run/play a WoD game. The newer systems are good, but you can do better just taking what you like from the lore and running something based on it using FATE, PbtA or even more esoteric systems like Hillfolk or Houses of the Blooded.

>>97021310
>It's not DnD (big plus for me)
>Roleplay heavy
>Edgy
>I like the ST system and the statsheets
I just like WoD, I feel like people "like" WoD, even under 30's, but it's just such a pain to run and manage compared to DnD being about as pick up and play as it gets. I would play DnD too but writing my own setting doesn't appeal to me much if it's a one off and the official settings are increasingly rather cucked. Could be I'm just autistic or something
Ideally I'd play Wraith but it's not really new player friendly

Im going to run that insane post Battle of Apocalypse scenario anon was talking about last post using W20. Better than whatever the fuck w5 is.

>>97021354
It's 2025, as you say no WoD game is newbie friendly by today's standards, so might as well run Wraith. My only advice here is that some games (definitely not all) like Wraith: the Oblivion or Changeling: the Lost DO require a certain mood, so it's not a bad idea to lit some candles at the table and play some ambient music.

So don't be a pussy. I'm going back to /osrg/, you kids have fun.

>>97021495
Take care, I just wanted to introduce them so I can work less on explaining mechanics and more on atmosphere/the setting in a hopeful follow up game
Possibly even the same characters when they get Wraith'd

>>97021310
Believe or not, there aren't that many game settings based on our contemporary world.

>>97020327
>And also pretty accessible from a character creation pov unfortunately
Only because they do shit like making werewolf tribes/totems into a complete mockery of what they used to be, and basically just a Choose-Your-Superpowers with no string attached. It's even worse in Werewolf than it was in Vampire, because at least Vampires retain some of their former clan structures and the Ivory Tower still exists even though they're portrayed as a lot more lame these days.

Rudi is an obvious example. Gangrel that hangs out in fucking Copenhagen that's a "new player" in the Kindred world but for some reasons Princes "fear" him which makes no fucking sense. Euro Princes are among the oldest and most firmly entrenched kindred in the world and in the old setting they'd have sent the Scourge to stake Rudi's ass and leave him for the dawn. Why's he Gangrel instead of Brujah? Because somebody wanted to call him a "Bear" because he's gay. There were joke characters in Old-WoD with more substance. Samuel Haight had more fucking substance.

>>97019986
Oh, this explains why the threads are so fast.

>>97022319
No don't worry I agree completely but it's the simple fact that they're accessible why they're so popular, as well as being new. Anyway, your point on Rudi is correct and why I kind of hate the new writers although I think Rudi was made completely unironically as if they were huffing their own gas, which is a shame because
>bear gay gangrel
can actually be a funny joke character

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>>97022434
>I kind of hate the new writers although I think Rudi was made completely unironically as if they were huffing their own gas
I think you're very correct, because his traits are just random and stupid. He's practically a caricature of progressive idealism without a single thought paid to grounding him in the setting.
>black
>gay
>muslim
>feminist
>BLM
>city haven
>gangrel
He's just a hodgepodge fucking mess of traits that are undesirable or disruptive, and a walking masquerade violation for retaining his mortal habits/acquaintances. A joke character would at least be built with a niche in mind.

>>97022587
Last I remember city gangrel are kind of Sabbat right?

>>97022640
Generally speaking yes but they didn't even bother to tie him to that bloodline, antitribu or not. In fact one of his traits mentions him reveling in the greater clan's break from the Cam.

>>97022671
Insane amounts of donut going on with him then huh

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>>97022823
To the point he's bordering on being the Whizzard.

>>97022849
I kek'd, thank you for the image

>>97022319
Ironically enough, he isn't a "bear".

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>>97022976
Sometimes I forget how old Gun Show is.

>>97023431
I've seen no sense of right or wrong in /a/ before but i've never seen the whizzard. Thanks still though

If I want to play a Get of Fenris Ahroun who really likes punching people, how badly will people look down their noses at me?

>>97024273
They won't

>>97024273
>Play a Get and Ahroun stereotype
Nothing wrong with that

I've had a weird thought of running a 20th game in either Victorian England or Civil War America.

I'm English so the former would probably be easier but the latter was inspired by some horror stuff I read a bit ago. But I'm not sure how to tie either of these to WtA.

>>97019986
Hunter the Parenting is currently breeding a new generation of WoD players who will have Critical Role-tier humor and characters and continue to gather their lore through YouTube videos. They might be even more retarded than the secondaries created by V5 and WoD Discord.

>>97022587
I have never play V5. I'm not planning to do it either. But Rudi to me it's like some kind of legend because he's like the only NPC most people in this threads know by heart. I have no idea if he's like super important to the metaplot of the game but you guys talk about him like if he (xi?) is Sam Samuel Haight, dominating the storyline of every game and splat. Is really funny to me, long live Rudi, the only NPC most of you can name from memory.
>>97025225
For Werewolf the Civil War is a better choice, because battlefields are closer to wild places, which help the games a lot. Try to do some research, is usually the fun part. I also prefer things I don't know well because it's an opportunity to learn about the subject (as a matter of fact I'm running a London game this Saturday and the enemy is hiding in 50 Berkeley Square, a place I didn't know existed until like a week ago).

>>97026264
He's not very important unless you want to play in Copenhagen without doing a lot of your own writing, but he's basically a meme stand in for the shit writing in V5. I suppose he does live rather rent free but the image gets reposted every now and then

>>97026276
Is that all? Man, that's a bit of a let down. From the fact that it doesn't matter the thread or the game he always pops up I always imagine him being like this massive relevant NPC or a signature character like Theo Bell, at minimum.

>>97019312
>The Gray Wolf (Cepый Boлк) in tales like Tsarevich Ivan, the Firebird, and the Gray Wolf (Ивaн-цapeвич, Жap-птицa и Cepый Boлк) is a wise, magical helper who aids the hero Ivan, carrying him vast distances and shapeshifting into humans or horses when needed. This wolf is an "oboroten'" ally, not a monster.
You know, when I read that story, my hentai brain t first think the wolf would turn into an attractive girl and marry Ivan, but he always marry the princess in the end. What a bummer, I think it would be better if he marries his companion who is always be there for him instead of some distant princess

>>97026292
He's like V5's signature character at this point but yeah, he's not crazy important. Anons just think he stands out for being uniquely poorly written as you can tell by the all the VTMB2 threads and how he's posted every now and then as an example of new White Wolf's writers being retarded. In this thread he was just used as an example of what not to be doing with a character

>>97026264
>For Werewolf the Civil War is a better choice, because battlefields are closer to wild places, which help the games a lot.
Makes sense. It's also still a good period of wilderness and civilisation. Main hurdle will be inventing a plot that suits and getting british players interested.

>>97026383
Present the premise and ask them about what character they would be interested in playing. Once you have the general idea work around it.

>>97026341
I've seen worse in the Children of Gaia revised book, but well, I really have no idea how V5 works anyway.

>>97026383
>British players
I'm an American so I wouldn't know exactly what appeals to a British player but if the politics of the setting doesn't really appeal to them then maybe some of the cooler moments of the War like Sherman burning down an entire city with no prior warning might appeal to them in terms of drama and cool shit happening. Sherman in general was a really cool psychopath to the point that Garou indifference to humans getting murdered might be called in question relative to this mundane guy's war tactics

>>97026427
Worse in what way? I'd love to see some of those examples as Rudi is kind of funny despite being so retarded. I know people meme on Samuel Haight on here too

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>>97019576

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>>97026456
ftfy
I mean, how old is Mari Cabrah by now?

>>97026433
All else fails I can just say "Wyrm did it" and that'll get a group moving, ha.
But it is potentially a good excuse to delve into history that around here is a LOT less explored. Most we ever touch on the US Civil War is "North wanted to free slaves, South didn't. They fought. North won. Now here's another three years of World War 2."
Actually sure we spent more time on the "Roaring 20s" in the US than anything else about it.
I'm mostly wondering how the tribes and such got on with it. We know Bone Gnawers spied for the North, Get could probably go either way depending on individual priorities, etc.

>>97026532
>>97026456
Kek

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>>97026264
>Is really funny to me, long live Rudi, the only NPC most of you can name from memory.
Right Anon because nobody in a thread about a World of Darkness setting knows any of the other NPCs from any other city in the setting. We totally haven't read DOZENS of books detailing settings all over the world from Los Angeles and Chicago to Berlin, Prague, and Krakow.

He's talked about because he's fucking trash, a stinking pile of rancid shit-encrusted detritus in a setting that used to be respectable.

>>97026433
>>97026633
You're gonna have a hard time not only because the war itself is not as black and white as it's made out to be, an rationalizing Garou involvement is difficult in light of the realities of the situation.

Firstly, the North are the highly industrialized oppressive power. Coal, timber, railroads, you get the point. After the American Civil War martial law was established and the southern states were ruled by Union generals. The Union government was still abducting Native American children and forcing them into re-education camps at this point as well.

It would be profoundly difficult to adhere to the tradition North Good vs. South Bad while juggling Werewolf lore and actual historical fact.

>>97026844
On the one hand, Furies probably hate slavery and I'm sure other Garou don't like it or have their own personal problem with the south. On the other hand
>The Factories
>The American Government probably has a couple of Fomor or kindred
I don't believe the Garou would outright engage in civil war but I imagine a lot of the packs would end up having discussions or meetings over it while engaging in their own form of sabotage. So I expect it would be much more prudent to treat it like a cold war working via human proxies and sabotage than a full on open conflict

>>97026532
High odds that she became an ancestor-spirit before the modern day, but she was described as vaguely young in Rage: Warriors of the Apocalypse, so probably in her mid-50s.

>>97026844
>>97025225

You can use Werewolf Wild West for info since it mentions the Civil war a couple of times for context.

>>97027918
She was still alive in 20A. Maybe she died in W5 to increase Albrecht's general misery?

>>97028184
W20 and W5 were about a decade apart, so a lot could happen if you connect them.

(But don't.)

>>97019195
What werewolf tribe has the cutest girls?

>>97026915
>>97028169
I haven't read the Wild West books but just judging by history the Garou probably found themselves aligned against eachother occasionally. The Uktena, oddly enough, probably would have fallen more on the Confederate side of things because of their ties to the Cherokee who sided with the South. If you wanted to take your campaign down to Georgia, the destruction Sherman caused would have attracted Banes in spades.

A couple more thoughts about Civil War Werewolves: Sherman's March to the Sea would have been a complicated subject for the Garou. While Sherman did do harm to nature, he also burned Atlanta to the ground which would have pleased the more radical Garou. However the burning of Atlanta (and some Camarilla vs. Sabbat fuckery just beforehand) probably also caused a Cainite diaspora, driving many into the wilderness.

>>97028796
>>97028707
Sherman remaining the king of divisive figures as always

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>>97029098
I keep turning the whole situation over in my head from the perspective of Garou cosmology and I'm enjoying it. The industrial North is easily identifiable with the Wyrm, with the agrarian South being more like the Weaver. Sme garou could very easily decide that the two destroying eachother is a net positive, while others might decide the damage is too much to tolerate. The war concluded in 1865, which is also the year that Proto-Endron was founded. In many ways the Civil War's conclusion marks a severe negative shift in their ancient struggle.

>>97029415
Yeah it's very adaptable though I imagine it's never been formally put into a setting due to some of the controversy the nature of the conflict

>>97029495
Yeah, it's one of the most thoroughly propagandized conflicts in American history. The stuff they teach in schools is thoroughly whitewashed and any amount of personal research into the subject is actually a little shocking. Mid-90s White Wolf would have had a lot of fun with it. Modern White Wolf wouldn't dare.

>>97028796
>>97029415
>>97029495
>>97029504
The Brit who pondered it to begin with here.
Real world considerations aside it is interesting to me how you could feasibly have had werewolves on both sides, or potentially neither side.
>Support the North to free enslaved gaoru or at the very least have belief in ending the war quickly due to the mess it makes on mother earth
>Support the South because of the industry of the North slowly poisoning gaia
>Actively sabotage both sides to make the war even bloodier and sit back and watch two of your enemies tear each other to bits

I'd probably have a hard time finding anyone willing to ball as a Confederate though, at least over here, for obvious reasons even if the truth is a little muddied.

>>97029658
Considering it was the bloodiest conflict in American history I can see a big case for the third. And as for roleplay, I'm sure you could among your friends though if you want players to do a union game then you're doing a union game unfortunately. Definitely good luck with it. It is interesting WW would rather go Charnel Houses and Get Nazis rather than something during the Civil War which until recently was much more well regarded in culture

>>97029687
desu I don't mind if it ended up being Union if a theoretical group really wanted to pick a side, though I might pitch it to being after Lincon made the proclamation which at least might give a stronger narrative cause for werewolves to say "Ayo there's Vampires keeping some of our kin as slaves in the South and we got an excuse to go crack some skulls let's fucking goooooo" or something to that effect.
All theoretical anyway, I haven't managed to get a WTA game together in years. Every WoD Discord and in person group just wants Vampire, and very rarely Hunter. Or that one weirdo who wants to run Mummy (mad respect to him).

>>97029705
Yeah, VtM is just the most popular. Probably would be best to transition from Vampire to WtA or whatever game you'd prefer with that group if you get along. Shame the way it is but Vampire is just the most well regarded

>>97029658
>Three Garou show up in a clearing
>One in a red uniform
>One in a blue uniform
>One in neither but has stolen battle plans he was going to sneak over to the opposite sides to make the two armies smash together in the woods ensuring a bloody and chaotic melee
>Start arguing over who is in the right
>Kill each other
>Just as Gaia intended?

>>97029658
If I had to construct a scenario with a wide range of character creation options I'd start it out with the burning of Atlanta and the players are sent by various septs to reinforce the defense of a nearby Caern. A local feud between Red Talons that want to sabotage the Confederacy and Uktena with a grudge against the Union because of abuse toward their Cherokee kinfolk. Maybe open it with the players deciding what they want to do about the mortals and vampires ejected from the city, then follow it up with Black Spiral Dancers taking advantage of the distraction.

Another fun detail you could take advantage of: Jeremiah Lassater, founder of Endron, bears a distinctly common surname for Georgia. His early business interests could be incorporated into the story you want to tell, and players wouldn't necessarily have to engage with the war itself to have a good time.

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>>97029738
The third Garou should be a Native American.

>>97029775
Third Garou may be best as a Shadow Lord seeing as how he's maximizing suffering I think

>>97025225
Victorian Britain could be excellent as that when the werewolf became codified in literature. It's when you start to see werewolf pop up as a recognisable monster.

Plus, you got a ton of thing happening in the British Isles in WtA. That usually don't get explored much in most games.

>>97029415
>The industrial North is easily identifiable with the Wyrm
The other way around. Industry is closer not with the Wyrm but with the Weaver. Slavery is closer to Eater of Souls and farther from the Weaver since it relies on ancient practice instead of technology.

>>97030246
That's a good point to make, and I bet there would be angry debates that turn violent about the subject among werewolves.

>>97029802
A large number of Shadow Lords are mestizo, so it could still fit.

>>97028796
Kindred in the wilderness that are used to city life tend to stick out like a sore thumb, though.

>>97030802
If it's a Werewolf game the nanosecond you meet kindred you can smell it so it's not like it'd be subtle

>>97032516
And people say that garou don’t have dicks while in crinos form

>>97031370
You may detect something it's wrong if the kindred is very careless, otherwise you need a gifts like detect Wyrm, or smells like true form, or have your ocultism focused on vampires.

LET'S ASK THE IMPORTANT QUESTION:

What is the best edition of Werewolf? We already know that W5 is dogshit. Some say that Werewolf 1 and 2 was more fun, others say Revised has more content. Which one encompasses best the unhinged nature of this splat?

>>97032540
Why wouldn't they have a dicks? I mean, if they didn't have one, why would they bother wearing loincloths in their crinos forms?

>>97032905
>Clothing in Crinos
I feel as if artists and writers take a lot of liberties with how fuzzy Crinos is or the particular aesthetics being applied to Werewolf clothing. Though I suppose in the Amazon the dogs can't exactly have a thick coat
The important question is if it's proportional though
>>97032882
I figure just W20 with occasionally incorporating whatever relevant lore or mechanics you want from the other books

>>97032882
>W5 is dogshit
I'll argue that mechanically is better than previous versions, the big thing people complain about is the metaplot (irrelevant for new players) and, more understandable, the vibe which is less "RAGE AGAINST THE ENEMIES OF GAIA" and more "be frustrated about how things turn out".

>>97032967
p.2 W20 like all 20 anniversary editions keeps the problem than you need to read, at minimum, revised to get the whole picture and the nuance of most things. Hell, for many important places like the Sept of The Green you still need to read 2e.
So, W20 is fine to start, but if you really want to run a complete WtA game you will have to read most, if not all of, Revised.

>>97032976
I've heard revised is too toned down tho

>>97032992
Toned down as most of the Tribes stop being extreme stereotypes and got Camps to showcase the concept more broadly. For example, the Furies went from "can do no wrong" to "they have the same extremist as any other tribe".
The main issue with Revised is that signature character and metaplot elements are really, really important. So you better get used to see Albrecht, Konietzko and such over and over again.

>>97033002
>>97032992
My main issue with running WtA is outside of certain scenarios a PC is supposed to know a fair bit of of the lore and background already whereas in most of the other splats barring mummy your character being
>le clueless
Is perfectly fine, so I have to ask players to at least be reading a bit of the lore before we play

>>97032924
I presume it is
>>97032967
>mechanically better
I can’t really agree besides streamlining some aspects of rolling dice. But my main gripe with W5’s mechanics is the sheer amount of things that need willpower to be done while making willpower harder to increase and restore. Especially because it’s tied to the harano/hauglosk system that eventually turns your character into an npc with basically no RaW way to counterbalance
>>97032976
Agree, W20 really doesn’t explain well a lot of basic stuff about the setting. Had to go for Revised’s Player’s Guide to actually understand a lot of things

>>97033002
I didn't mean that. I mean that in edition 1 and 2 you're a big werewolf killing corposcum left and right and in revised you're a bad dog navel gazing but not doing really any killing.

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>>97032924
>The important question is if it's proportional though
probably.

>>97033192
>>97033503
See I would think that but... I just don't know partially because VtM got entire smut novels

>>97033266
Not really the case, the main difference is the expansion on Garou politics that, yes, it involves more stuff than just "go out and break shit". You can see the transition from
>be the pack that gets constantly send to destroy Wyrm tainted places and fight banes
to
>players can move up and be the ones sending other packs
The best example on how the game is supposed to be play are the novels that follow a pack in a quest to destroy an ancient Bane doing politics on the way as powerful NPCs plot in the background.
>>97033192
I still see W5 as a better system overall, because you already have the over-reliance on some dice polls and this one is not the worse. Since it still a new system I expect they do some polish in the future, but it's already more friendly to new players than Werewolf usually is.
>>97033021
>PC is supposed to know a fair bit of of the lore and background already
Very very true, having fun in Werewolf is more lore dependent than most games, at least to move up from "go break shit" to "why am I going and breaking shit exactly?". In fact I'm working on an introductory adventure to try and address this.

>>97033266
>Not really doing any killing
Even V5 you're doing comical amounts of killing, but yeah I suppose the mood of the setting becomes more desperate and depressed as the metaplot progresses and the reality of "wow, this shit is FUCKED" sinks into the plot and narrator
>>97033192
I like rage dice for W5 even if it's just reskinned hunger dice, but yeah I would gloss over harano and hauglosk

>>97033778
>Needing an introductory adventure
This is part of my problem running it yes, I can exposit lore to get players immersed in VtM or Mage but for Werewolf your options for that are
>Play a group of stolen moons/skin dancers
>4ish Garoufailures who somehow are all either 16(first change) or had their change without a pack around to properly induct them into their role in society
And it's all much more limiting than being a fledgling or a newbie mage. And then players aren't going to care as much over why we're Hulk Smashing a bunch of literal who's at a factory or and Werewolf is pretty cucked for this lol a nuclear power plant

>>97033816
Funnily enough, I have an idea for a WtA story involving a newly formed Glass Walker sept whose alpha is a Corporate Wolf trying to prove to the rest of the nation that nuclear energy is the best way to save Gaia

>>97033816
>a nuclear power plant
Those got alright, is mostly Uranium mining with unethical practices (impropere disposal, the neglecting the health of your miners, abandoning mines without secure closure) that feeds the radioactive banes these days.

And yes, in my opinion, you can play fun short adventures with woofs just going berserk over simple objectives, but the meat of the game, the politics, the spiritual animist aspect, the philosophy is behind doing the actual reading. Good werewolf is for everyone but great werewolf is gatekeep lol.

>>97033880
>Great werewolf is a gatekeep
Yeah, that sort of makes sense as unfortunate as it is
>>97033841
Interesting idea. It's not like I expect it to be "bane free" but the way W5 scares over it is pretty insane. I know ultimately the goal of Garou is sustainability or anarcho primitivism but having in setting discourse like that is a pretty kino idea
>Nuclear Power is based actually
I guess Chernobyl and the Atom bomb is enough for most woofs to seethe about it

>>97033841
Wyrm 101 :
you keep demonizing nuclear to maintain coal and fossil fuel pollution high while on the side you make you Pentex subsidiaries corrupt the people managing the power plants to lower safety standards and worker safety. And don't forget, proper disposal is expensive, better to say you're doing it while saving cash dumping your stuff on some poor areas. (remember, the setting is reality but every choice is always the worse choice)

>>97033904
This is basically reality though in Germany and other parts of Europe

>>97033933
Whenever I look for inspiration about how the Wyrm-Pentex works I remember this:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

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>>97019312
Thank you, Chat-GPT.

>>97033951
Maybe Werewolf just came out at the wrong time I suppose

>>97033951
If a fast food company could make a cent more profit on a burger by making the patty out of meat harvested from demons summoned from the spirit world, even if that meat infuses the consumer with spiritual taint that drives them to sin or commit acts of evil, you can bet your ass that the fast food company would conjuring legions of demons to turn into burgers faster than you could say "stonks."

People who have their immersion broken by Pentex are silly to me, as are the silly doomers on the other extreme of the spectrum who go "real life companies are way more evil than Pentex."

>>97025207
If internet culture did not exist, this would be a creepy image. All I can see is a s*yjack pointing at something in the background.

>>97033989
Heh, Pentex actually already does that, check the O'Tolley's is a fast food chain from the Wyrm and Pentex books.

>>97034038
That's the point.

>>97034045
I guess that what I find fascinating is that researching actual ecological disasters you can always follow it back to "it makes/saves money".
No one actually cares about the consequences that may or may not happen, or the fall out that will come for future generations and you will not be alive to see.

>>97034038
He's saying irl a fast food company would do that. And honestly, if food laws didn't exist, they would

>>97034006
>Wolfjak pointing at his kryptonite
>It's just a shack filled with CEOs dummies and a belly rub machine
Garou these days can't fight the Wyrm

>>97033899
Most of the anti-nuclear energy in WtA (and likely on mainstream environmentalism as well) is because it’s very closely associated with the nuclear bomb and the risk of it turning the next world war into a world ending catastrophe. Chernobyl and Fukushima are just vindication of that fear for those who oppose it. I can’t remember where I read that, but the Umbra in Hiroshima is apparently heavily bane infested because of the blast. Not to mention the “spirit nukes” that the Technocracy created and left massive destruction the 2 times they were used (Week of Nightmares and the test that unleashed the 6th Great Maelstrom)
Even then, W20 does leave an opening for using nuclear energy for good, because atomic spirits/nuclear elementals are Weaver spirits instead of Wyrm ones (radiation banes are a separate thing from them)

>>97034155
You're also forgetting the nuclear testings at Bikini Atoll that fucked the Rokea all the way over.

>>97034183
I imagine all the desert tests might have fucked up a few caerns too, let alone Japan

>>97034265
Interestingly, last year I did run the W20 adventure that has an abandoned desert testing site as a place in witch a Hive is hiding, from Howls of Apocalypse.

>>97034183
I’m mad at myself because I was thinking of that while writing the post but somehow forgot writing it in
>>97034265
The “signature” hive of the Black Spiral Dancers is a thunderwyrm who was awakened by the nuke tests at Trinity site in New Mexico

>>97034336
>>97034297
That's pretty neat, I know Japan and Asia basically don't exist in WoD but I'd imagine you could make the case for the same happening in Japan, or potentially even worse with all the extra dead people.
Perhaps kindred of the East was a bit of a mistake for turning the asian setting into a stereotype rather than a continuation

>>97034355
I would say WtA does actually have a good Asian setting with the Beast Courts, as matter of fact is your best bet if you want to run a Fera campaign.

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>>97034387
I just find it difficult to take the Beast Courts seriously, for irrational reasons.

>>97034607
>In W5 they would be naked and murdering each other
Beast Courts is just kind of weird, as it implies the Garou Nation were the only real psychotic ones but they never really went into Asia to be psychos over there but somehow they did to North America?

>>97034628
They did have their psycho outburst with the War of Tears but they supposedly have learn from it.

>>97034652
Must be that asian mysticism at work keeping them from being crazy

>>97034659
Between the Beast Courts operating so differently from the changing breeds elsewhere and the kuei jin I think the Far East in WoD is basically its own dimension

>>97033933
As well as China.

>>97034652
Anon War of Tears is the one where the Bunyip bit it. You're thinking of the War of Shame. Which is heavily predicated on there being Wan Xian, which have been retconned out with the Gui Ren when V5 decided that it didn't want them any more.

>>97033841
He can try reminding them that coal puts out radioactive particulates in huge numbers, I suppose.

>>97034806
Well, fuck, yeah, I did confused those two.

>>97034806
>War of Rage
>War of Shame
>War of Tears
Werewolves are not the most creative it seems

>>97034848
The War of Shame wasn't undertaken solely, or even in the majority, by werewolves. It was all of the werebeasts of the Beast Courts fighting caern vs caern due to the treacherous misinformation of their one-time allies, the Wan Xian. When it became clear that the Wan Xian were playing cheesedick, they got rebuffed, the courts regrouped (minus the werebears, who all died), and the Zhong Lung called for retribution from heaven, which turned the Wan Xian into a pack of demonic vampires from there on in.

(There is an account of it in Blood and Silk, but it is extremely dumb and tries to bend the War of Shame into being responsible for tales of Huangdi vs. Chiyou. And that's not even the worst thing in Blood and Silk.)

>>97034892
>Werebears taking an L again
The Tremere of WtA even?

>>97034947
>The Tremere of WtA
The author's favorites of WtA? Probably not, no.

>>97034155
Looking back on it, it's crazy how much anti-nuclear propaganda I was fed as a child of the early 90s, to the point that I wonder if Captain Planet was just a propaganda organ of the oil industry.

>>97035285
Radiation poisoning is spooky shit that looks like an ancient curse, the nuclear accidents from the cold war and the consequences of using Radium before we knew what it could do was really close back then.
And you also have to understand incidents like this don't help
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_scrap_metal#Notable_incidents

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>>97035285
>to the point that I wonder if Captain Planet was just a propaganda organ of the oil industry
Heheheh. Hehe. Heh.

>>97035285
It doesn't help that 9 in 10 people think Nuclear waste is green goo kept in oil barrels
>Their entire understanding of nuclear power is from the fucking Simpsons

Has anyone read WtA centric novel which they really liked. I've got no players or STs but I do have a hunger for some werewolfs and the apocalypse.

>>97035785
Maaaan, I really wish the you are not immune to propaganda was a meme.

>>97035548
>>97035826
My field of study has always been biology, and I'm not so well educated in physics, but my understanding of chemistry had led me to conceptualize nuclear physics as the ultimate goal of hermetic alchemy. We never quite reached immortality, but turning lead into gold with a particle accelerator and boiling water with radiation to spin a turbine are incredible achievements. We live in an era of miracles made mundane.
>>97035830
>Has anyone read WtA centric novel which they really liked
I read Last Battle a REALLY long time ago. I remember being told by my school I was never allowed to bring it into the building again, and that I liked it, but I can't remember half the plot.

>>97035785
Wait, is this actually in one of the books? Lmao
>>97035881
Why weren’t you allowed to take the book there again?

>>97035940
>Why weren’t you allowed to take the book there again?
I went to a non-denominational Christian high school and accidentally left it on a table. One of the staff must have picked it up and sperged out about all the Gaia & Wyrm stuff. It was like 2004, fundies were the cancel culture back then.

>>97035826
Well, when you heard about ocean disposal of radioactive waste during the 40s, and of course
>https://missouriindependent.com/2023/07/12/st-louis-radioactive-waste-records/
It sure makes you remember than Nuclear Energy is the cleanest but it's history its not all that clean (heh)

>>97035949
>were
They haven't stopped being it.

>>97035962
They did, but only in the sense that they lost most of their reach to actually do that stuff. They’d definitely love to get back to doing it, though

>>97035962
>They haven't stopped being it.
They got overtaken for a while but they're back in full force. Watching fundies and woke fight is like Aliens vs Predator. No matter who wins we lose.

>>97035949
That's rough friend, always pretty insane how much sperg out there is over fiction. There's a certain point where I can accept that yeah, a sperg out is expected, but it's so insane like the satanic panic shit. I'm not sure if boomers were just made insane through the leaded gasoline or else but it's all hard to believe

>>97035957
It actually took a lot of time to figure out that people aren’t supposed to carry radioactive material in their pockets. Marrie and Pierre Currie died of cancer in their early 30s because they kept carrying radium (or cesium, I don’t remember which) everywhere they went
>>97036102
Lead wasn’t what did it. People forget but boomers were basically shaped into what they are now by having every psyop be tested on them, plus greatest generation was actually pretty abusive when raising them

>>97036138
Well, that's unfortunate. I believe it was cesium that got the Curries cancer as well

Coming in a little late but there was a funny story in CB: Gangrel Revised that described a black man beaten and left for dead by the KKK Embraced by a Gangrel that went:

"No one was surprised when Washington Jackson Brown went to go get his revenge on the local Grand Wizard of the KKK who ordered him beaten. However, *everyone* was pretty surprised when the Grand Wizard's wife turned out to be a Lupine who ripped Brown's head off on her front porch. Sometimes we forget we're not the only things that go bump in the night."

>>97036256
Black Spiral Dancer?

>>97036310
Get of Fenris more likely

>>97036184
Radium, polonium, getting "sunburn" from working with X-ray... Trying to figure out what exactly gave them cancer is like trying to figure out which specific bullet killed Indira Ghandi.

>>97036320
If he was in the KKK he was already with one paw the spiral.

>>97036341
Tribal ethnonationalism is already baked into Garou culture by its nature. Or at least it was before Kinfolk were retconned out of existence.

>>97036345
The Fenris motto was the strongest kin, not a particular ethnicity (besides that once camp)

>>97036345
>>97036341
You'd think KKK is the more "racist" Get coded but realistically the husband could just be a Grand Wizard on the side which is often the case. Woman could have been Uktena or something. Unlikely she was a BSD holding down a husband and probably a decent reputation
>>97036256
That is some horribly ironic bad luck but it's pretty par for the course for Gangrels with terrible sires, something something karmic correction

>>97036310
Why a BSD? Because she was married to a KKK member? I know 95% of zoomers have no idea what history is, but the 1930s KKK was like the Elks Club most of the time.

>>97036320
The tribe wasn't mentioned, since most Gangrel have no idea about tribes. Revised was pretty good about establishing that baseline that most of the splats knew rumor and innuendo at best about the other splats. I think the more important point was the absolute "What the FUCK!" by anyone watching, followed by getting the fuck outta there.

If I had to guess tribe: Glass Walker or Shadow Lord.

>>97036350
>The Fenris motto was the strongest kin, not a particular ethnicity (besides that once camp)
Sure, but keep in mind Euro wolves moving west were also colonizers and the Pure Tribes were pretty open about that fact. "Wyrmcomers" is a strong concept. Trying to pretend Fenrir were ethnically tolerant to the point of miscegenation is retroactive whitewashing. At best they'd have come in and set up shop the way the Spaniards did (bleached the locals).

>>97036373
I feel like Shadow Lord wouldn't quite fit with the KKK as they're not really a criminal element or some mob to manage

>>97036366
I think it was pretty hilarious given that the author claimed he heard the story from the sire who admitted he was like "Yeah, get that revenge!" up until the point the wife went Crinos and he bugged the fuck out, reasonably so.

But yeah, par for the course for Gangrel. The guys thought of as murder machines by the other murder machines (Check out the commentary in CBR Brujah and Assamite if you doubt me) have the Cainite equivalent of Navy SEAL hell week for their fledglings. Who woulda thought?

>>97036394
I can buy it, yeah. Although I don't think Get is so necessarily racist as to run with the KKK rather than just having the proper opinion of the time. It's more the case that even back then the KKK was usually over vigilante justice and racial lynching for the sake of racial lynching, whereas the Get just probably wouldn't breed with a different race but wouldn't go out of their way to go lynch the blacks for instance. Either way, it doesn't matter as it's the wife who's a Garou and could just be ignoring her husband's activities because he was just strong enough for her tastes

>>97036398
The Grand Wizard was usually the mayor or the biggest business man in the heyday of the KKK.

I am pleading with you to get your history from somewhere other than wikipedia.

>>97036406
>Gangrel finds some dude they thought was a particular good fit like a Tory or they just lulz sired a newbie
>0 explanation, purely a negative influence other than don't go into the light don't get dusted
Based honestly, there's a reason the Garou moderately respect the Gangrel compared to other clans

>>97036422
>moderately respect the gangrel
They don't.

>>97036411
Practically speaking, a Klan lodge would have made good cover for a sept defending a caern out in the woods somewhere.

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>>97036394
>Trying to pretend Fenrir were ethnically tolerant to the point of miscegenation is retroactive whitewashing
Tribebook disagrees.

>>97036456
>Somehow they went from this to REEEE WHITE PEOPLE ONLY
W5 was pretty magical for that alone, olympic-tier mental gymnastics after a full decade trying to say the Get aren't actually racist they're just strength fags

>>97036456
Does it? First place it goes is banging the local wolves. Then later it admits they "tend" to be of similar ethnic composition. It even goes as far as to shit on the Wendigo and certainly pays no service to the native tribes.

>>97036454
I suppose that's a good point too but I don't think the Garou need any actual help doing that when they can just make their own town

>>97036486
>However, any Get worth her salt will fuck an Aborigine as soon as a German if he's a strong warrior and suitable Kin.
This indicates that they were willing to engage in miscegenation if the Kin is strong enough.

>>97036499
It's also a conditional statement. Strong warrior is specific enough. Suitable Kin? Very vague.

>>97036429
They knew the Gangrel were different. RAW Gangrel didn't trigger Sense Wyrm at Humanity 7 or (interestingly) Path of Harmony/Beast 6. They also knew that 9 times out of 10 they might find some neonate in a van that they could rip apart like tissue paper, but that tenth time they encounter some monster who somehow has a Crinos form with insane levels of Potence, Fortitude, and Celerity and eats packs of Elders as a warm up despite wanting to be left alone. VTMR made the point multiple times that Gangrel elders were absolute monsters who just wanted to be left alone, and WTAR made that point as well. The Glass Walkers, Bone Gnawers, and the Shadow Lords all made note that the Gangrel could be leveraged 90% of the time with nothing more than "we won't rip your head off most of the time" but the other 10% of the time you might dealing with something that remembered the Roman Empire live and in color, and had its own opinion on how the relationship would go.

The Shadow Lord TBR made the point that for all their inhumanity, they still had honor and having such an ally was a coup.

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How do you respond without sounding mad

>>97022676

>>97034607
Does that khan really need a sword? I mean, how useful could it be?

>>97036504
Suitable Kin is more about mentality and the ability to fit into the Get culture but yes you're right. The whole mental/cultural aspect is quite a big debate in racial and ethnic discussion
>>97036525
I thought high humanity Kindred don't have Wyrm taint to them in general though

>>97036547
This guy basically got responded too without seething by every comment more or less

>>97036504
So it's gone from:
>Trying to pretend Fenrir were ethnically tolerant to the point of miscegenation is retroactive whitewashing
to
>The Fenrir were ethnically tolerant to the point of miscegenation but only conditionally

>>97036547
>How do you respond without sounding mad
You don't; you completely ignore his infantile attention-seeking. The guy is probably 12.

>>97036562
Other Kindred always popped for Sense Wyrm unless they had a Humanity of 8+ or Golcanda. VTR made the point that most Kindred were 5/6 humanity at best.

>>97036576
>So it's gone from:
It hasn't gone from anything since the very next sentence after the one you quoted was "At best they'd have come in and set up shop the way the Spaniards did (bleached the locals)." But that sentence didn't trigger your keyboard warrior reflex, did it?

Honestly, I only said the klansman’s woof wife was Get of Fenris is because the Swords of Heimdall were founded in the american south after the Civil War, so they’d be the most likely to have members involved with the KKK

>>97036588
The next sentence after the segment I quoted is:
>The Fera.
The next sentence after that is:
>This is key.
>The next sentence after that is:
>In addition to wolves and humans, it's imperative that other strong shifters not dominate the area.
So no, it's not the very next sentence at all.

>>97036581
Damn your average Kindred is kind of a piece of shit not a surprise

>>97036547
RAGEEEEEEE

>>97036623
Yeah that's kind of the point. I have my issues with Achilli on some things but overall he really brought the game forward from 2E to Revised to be modern and interesting. Mark Rein Hagen was up his own asshole about "Gothic Punk aesthetic" and so 2E suffered from cool artwork with terrible content that was all over the place.

>>97036570
>>97036579
>>97036628
Ah so you agree that woofs are R tarded

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>>97036618
>So no, it's not the very next sentence at all.
Anon...

>>97036623
Correct. They live in a sad world. A broken world.

>>97036373
>Why a BSD? Because she was married to a KKK member? I know 95% of zoomers have no idea what history is, but the 1930s KKK was like the Elks Club most of the time.
i mean, this ones beat a guy to death and throw it in the forest, and I don't think it was because of his lack of club manners.

>>97036547
They literally are this retarded.........

>>97036648
I see, yeah. Shame WoD5 is back on the good artwork mediocre content episode
>>97036657
Let's see you say that when your meat is getting punted across a football field. Anyway, no it isn't purely on Werewolves, when you can just blame Caine instead

>>97036482
They're not racist in W5, they're angry at the Garou nation for giving up the fight against the Wyrm.

>>97036666
So you contradicted your own statement in the sentence right after it, going from "this does not happen and claiming it happens is retroactive whitewashing" to "this happens conditionally."

>>97036671
You'd think that would make it easy to be high humanity but as I understand it they have some insane paranoia to be distrustful
>>97036675
I still don't think a BSD would be able to hold down a family

>>97036547
I would point out Mages and Demons did much, much worse.

>>97036684
Isn't the Cult throwing in with neonazis? That's a bit more than just angry at the Garou

>>97036675
Are you ESL? This makes no sense.

>>97036679
Current WoD is up its own ass with social justice AND the system is unnecessarily clunky.

>>97036685
>So you contradicted your own statement
No Anon, I asserted that it would ONLY happen conditionally and in such a way as to maintain the identity of the tribe. You posted something that proved this and claimed it was a refutation, and then later didn't seem aware that it had been said at all. You are grasping at straws. Just let it go.

>>97036687
>I still don't think a BSD would be able to hold down a family
Oh, but they do. Usually very awful abusive ones, but you'll be surprised how stable a Silver Spiral can look when he wants.

>>97036694
No? Where are you getting this from? Fenris in W5 declared war on the Garou nation because they gave up.

>>97036687
Default humanity for Vampires was straight Conscience, and Humanity was bought at 2 freebie points per point. You got five points for Virtues, with a free point in each. Assuming you put 3 points in Conscience, that was 6 points to bump you to six. So yeah, 5-6 seems about right.

>>97036699
If your entire argument for the wife being a BSD is "b-b-but her husband was a member of the KKK in the 1930s!" Its probably time for you to dilate.

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>>97036733
Since the very first book, strong racism makes you fall closer to the Wyrm. You tell me how she married a racist husband and was okay with him lynching some dude, when most Garou have strong tabs on their partners.
btw, this is from the first Fenris book.

>>97036746
>You tell me how she married a racist husband and was okay with him lynching some dude
How do you know he didn't intrude on their caern? The anecdote is from the vampire's perspective, a Gangrel and likely a drifter if he didn't have tabs on the local dogs.

>>97036773
I don't think the anecdote would need to be explicit about the Gangrel getting beating by the KKK gran wizard if it wasn't for KKK reason that he got beaten.
Otherwise it would just say "Washington Jackson Brown intrude on a forest and got beaten by some men patrolling the zone"

The blurb comes from a VtM book and specifically refers to a Lupine. There's no reason to believe that it's specifically referring to WtA Garou and trying to guess the tribe. Unless it's specifically referring to the Garou, VtM is usually written as a completely different setting to WtA and its Lupines have no connection to the Garou.

So the guessing game is meaningless, as that blurb likely wasn't intended to be interpreted in a cross-over context.

>>97036699
>>97036733
This assumes the BSD wasn't getting abused by the husband and into it

>>97036812
This is likely the reason yeah, but it's not nearly as fun without a connected world. Mages, Wraiths, and other shit are allowed to exist and be semi-functional in VtM with all the bells and whistles so it makes sense a Garou can as well, just without any of the actual identifier features that only Garou would be able to recognize. I remember a few threads back a guy running a Hunter game was asking if the Garou he was introducing as a sort of semi-ally would divulge information on his auspice or tribe and the main answer he got was
>No, unless the players are REALLY interested in it and has positive interactions with the whole pack
As it's basically meaningless information to a Kindred, or a Hunter, or a Mage. I kind of shitted on Glenkildove a little bit for getting some Werewolf lore incorrect and not naming the Fianna pack you interact with what it is, but it makes perfect sense from a hunter POV that a werewolf has 0 reason to go up to you and go like
>Sup friend, I know you tried to kill me, but we're a Fianna pack just so you know and I personally love to talk about philosophy

Kindred-Garou team-up packterie whose only job is to kill or brainwash anglo racism groups that come in contact with supernaturals, because everyone's sick of these conversations
>especially the vampires who have it every seven years for all of time

>>97036866
Make the call.
Would it be even numbers or a seventy-thirty split favoring kindred?

>>97036843
Yeah, but mages and wraiths are semi-functional in VtM without all of their usual bells and whistles, just like the Lupines. The Order of Hermes that House Tremere comes from, when you don't factor in MtA, is just a shadowy cabal of hermetic wizards, without any reference to the true nature of magick or the Traditions or the Technocracy or consensual reality or any of that.

>>97036746
The "stupid human propaganda" being referred to is the Holocaust, you absolute dork. There's a huge gulf between the Six Gorillion Lampshades and keeping an eye on Noble Negro Youf Scholars.

>>97036887
One Garou being shared by 4-5 vamps in a harem

>>97036894
>I-I'm not wrong! I'm not.
Ya huh.

>>97036891
I suppose so, but aren't Tremere still seething in VtM over not having access to true magic anymore? Yeah it's not Ascension war tier deep knowledge but enough to know greater magic exists

>>97036887
More werewolves, they're younger so they'd have the "nazi discourse is retarded, rip it out by the roots" mentality more often. The vampires are mostly people that lived through the third reich or vichy france, and remember how exhausting elysium became.

>>97036917
Youll feel better after you dilate. Promise.

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>Fuck Garou, you know? fuck everyone, I don't need them, I can handle everything by myself.

>>97036923
No? Only the very, very oldest, most of whom are long dead or trapped in torpor by this point. 99.99% of them likely have no clue what "true magick" actually is.

>>97036912
Bold but I do believe it'd be workable if they're all chicks. Black Fury working with a Lamia, Lasombra, Toreador, Gangrel and Malk could work. Brujah's out cause the Fury would tear their head off if she knows her history. antitribe Ventrue could probably replace the gangrel.

>>97036924
>One Vampires sugar daddy and like 3-4 Garou
Hmm
>>97036935
Didn't these guys get themselves fucked over

>>97036789
The point of the anecdote is that the situation had supernatural variables no one was aware of. That and Gangrel are terribly irresponsible when siring, educating, and protecting their childer.

>>97036943
Damn, that's actually a cool premise though I doubt any table would be willing to run an all girl group like that. Fascinating idea though, I could see a Fury having mercy on female Kindred a lot more so until the Toreador gets too attached and turns her into an abomination because the Fury got herself killed

>>97036935
Did them a fat lot of good when Tenochtitlan was infested with a Baali cult.

>>97036952
Thank you. The humor comes from the watching Gangrel seeing this go down and the likely "gonna get the fuck outta here" response because no one imagined that was an outcome.

The fact an amusing anecdote got turned into an autistic focus on the possible tribe of the Lupine focused through the prism of "muh raycism" shows why so many fucking TTRPGers are insuffable autistic scolds who don't deserve the 20 Edition versions of oWoD.

May they suffer forever with shitty 5th edition Paradox versions featuring OC Donut Steel self insertions and unworkable, unfun systems.

>>97036956
>spoiler
They just gotta get lucky with like a Theurge or a Galliard. It'll be fine by the third time cause they get results. One day they'll get a Fury that they can keep safe and is more willing to help play politics.
That said, I could see the Woof and Lasombra enjoying some light rough housing because they can both step sideways unlike the other clans. Maybe freaks out the gangrel with how they keep flitting around the space and shadows but it'd be a great bonding experience.

>>97036982
Someone made the point before that the Shadow Lords with Cortez looked around at Tenochtitlan and reasonably thought all the changers were corrupted because HOW could they let this horror show exist.

Which, honestly, seems extremely reasonable.

>>97037026
The Shadow Lords are always right.

>>97036996
That sounds pretty kino
>>97036990
The only thing to do on this website is discuss, shitpost, and kek. Sometimes all three

>>97036924
Sounds like it'd be a bunch of ragabash hooligans from the local fc and the two old drunks(kindred) that corral 'em. Maybe help them out when the pups draw too much attention.

>>97036866
>Kindred-Garou team-up packterie whose only job is to kill or brainwash anglo racism groups that come in contact with supernaturals, because everyone's sick of these conversations
Would have backfired in End Times setting, and produced a number of unironic skinhead Imbued. The Messengers pass out superpowers to people who have a strong will often to the point of being deranged, regardless of their actual ethics. Imbued Skinheads were a thing and they were occasionally a colossal pain in the ass for non-white Imbued.

>>97036894
The intro comic is literally the heroic Get killing nazi werewolves

>>97037080
Sounds like a great way to get everyone to turn on them. Via the hyper acceleration Imbued do. Man those messengers really are thinking five steps ahead.

>>97037080
It's a shame I've already played a Nazi with this group or else I'd use this as a future character concept.

>>97037100
I can only imagine the whacky racist shit that got posted on hunter-net under names like "xX_LicK_SlayeR_Xx"

>>97037049
Autistic navel gazing alternated with moralistic jerking off about how what was standard practice at the time LE HECKIN BAD BE A DECENT GAROUARINO is neither discussion, shitposting, nor kek.

>>97037026
To be fair, the garou did so bad, that they gave humans permanent genetic ptsd

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>>97037439
To be fair, what human wouldn't be terrified upon seeing any werebeast?

>>97037439
It really wouldn't have taken much to cull prehistoric population levels.

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>>97037473
It's a short list, that's for sure.

>>97037473
>Some people react via sexual attraction and fascination to this
Delirium is fucking weird

>>97036689
Elaborate. I'm a lorelet in both Mage and Demons. I can't think of a bigger fuck up that what the Garou did, except maybe if you count rebelling against God in the case of Demonds.

Who do you like as your candidate for Gaia's true identity?

>Lilith
>Zianna
>Ennoia
>Scarlet Empress

>>97037714
>Demons caused the Fall of Man, which is a prerequisite for Caine killing Abel
>Lilith, a Mage, did something to God to make him so curse-happy

>>97037714
>I can't think of a bigger fuck up that what the Garou did
Demons trying to save humanity from death only to fuck everything up, damning humanity and creating the Shadowlands.

>>97037715
Crunch down those figures with the idea of some apocrypha being true.
Comes out to
>Ennoia
>Zianna
Now all things considered between the two, and the setting's love of three, Gaia's neither of those.
She's her own figure, a celestine like Garou think, that formed from faith meant for Zianna but the fall along with Zianna being a Rabisu, and a seraph, led to strange things forming as faith tried to reach her as the tree. That's right, Gaia is Zianna's celestine daughter formed wholly of faith in the Umbra. The first fruit blossomed by Zianna's tree form.

>>97037715
>Lillith
>Ennoia
So tired of those writer's pets. Lillith should just fuck off, it's bullshit how this mary sue gets involved in fucking everything and just so powerful just because.

>>97037804
>and just so powerful just because.
She is literally the very first mage, based on certain sources. She's strong enough that she totes around an entire cadre of archmages in one ToJ scenario (and said archmages get instantly vaped by Caine, who was her personal understudy).

>>97037856
I feel like having extreme setting fixtures like that including Caine though he's usually never doing anything is still kind of mediocre writing

>>97034074
They were doing shit nearly as terrible back when food laws barely existed (adding shit like charred rope and ash to food and saying it was "cinnamon", all kinds of actively toxic products, 'reusing' outright rotten food, etc), so you're absolutely correct. The only reason we don't have real life O'Tolleys - or as close as it's possible to get - is because people fought tooth and nail to hold them fucking accountable.

>>97037887
Yes, ToJ had it's pitfalls.

>>97037895
Yeah pretty much, although debatably what we have now in certain scenarios isn't terribly far from O'Tolleys

>>97037804
Brucato was pulling hard for her to be Luna.

>>97037924
>At any moment a future writer can permanently warp your setting into something you never intended or wanted
A bit insane this happened first with WoD before it happened to DnD

>>97037945
>anon doesn't know how to ignore and discard things
>the biggest rule of WoD
Must be tough

>>97037951
No I'm merely talking about official game releases, iirc not one official DnD setting has actually been ruined yet whereas I'm sure everyone and their mother over here has their WoD5 opinions and opinions on earlier editions. I'm only using parts of 5 I like for my games, but it's just kind of sad how it goes

>>97037945
It's not as bad in WoD because there's so many conflicting cosmological ideas and biased interpretations within the setting that it slides by. Hell, the Camarilla officially denied Noddism until 1999 when shit went completely ass up and they could no longer foster reasonable doubt. Even Beckett, who studied Noddist lore more than anyone outside the Sabbat, went from scoffing at the idea of Gehenna to considering it a very real possibility.

>>97037979
so there's this little thing called the Spellplague...

>>97036706
>Where are you getting this from?

The environment in which W5 was written, where the lead editor really, really wanted to make the Get of Fenris 100% Swords of Heimdall. While evidently someone restrained him after all, there are still hints of it that come across, like how Hauglosk is mentioned as a way to approach ecofascism, and how one of the Cult of Fenris sample antagonists is "festooned with abhorrent symbols" (probably because they couldn't say Nazi swastikas and black sun BS and be believable in the BS they run to deny this, which you are an accessory to, anon), and in how the Black Furies, who appear to have absorbed a number of the former tribes' members, have adopted occasional standpoints that are "Darwinian", and I don't think they're talking about descent with modification there. Just a hunch.

The claim "The Cult of Fenris isn't Nazis" is, hence, more than just a tad disingenuous. It wouldn't even be a stretch to call it a damn lie. The Cult are a leftover of Karim's plans for W:tA and also, it feels like, a part of the opinion he has of people that had been with it before W5.

>>97037026
How could the Shadow Lords in Eastern Europe allow the Tzimisce to exist?

>>97037090
And in the Revised tribebook they were hunting Nazis down after the Holocaust. A few were of their own tribe; that gave them extra incentive to tear them apart.

>>97037439
Mokole sometimes give all mammals PTSD, and might have culled humanity from early primate ancestors.

>>97037715
Let me quote you the Werewolf Revised Storyteller's Handbook. "Not everything needs to be shackled to Vampire's mythology, you know."

>>97038038
I guess nowhere is safe but Forgotten Realms was always a pretty shit setting barring a few exceptions like the drow

>>97038083
>How could the Shadow Lords in Eastern Europe allow the Tzimisce to exist?
So you might have heard about this malicious spirit or demon called Kupala. Might've also heard about how the Eldest came in and eager war to free Kupala. That might have something to do with it.

>>97038023
I guess so but other than some 5E FR stuff for DnD all the written material for the settings is consistent with earlier material and the direction of the writing

I'm a Garou
Grrr, I'm mad
I'm a Garou
My rhymes are bad

>>97038121
I'm a Garou is 5 syllables, that's the start of a Haiku

>>97038083
>How could the Shadow Lords in Eastern Europe allow the Tzimisce to exist?
Guess it depends on how you look at it. Tzimisce, despite their Antediluvian cavorting with Earthbound, are generally not diabolists. As shitsack as the Voivodate was, it still wasn't demonic human sacrifice intentionally tainting the Earth. Despite being a minority in the greater clan the Koldun took their relationship with the land and its spirits very seriously, which may have at least fostered a sort of detante in the Carpathians between fiends and wolves. Tzimisce also tend not to range far from their castles and cities either.

>>97038172
>Some Shadow Lord slav out there probably has a Tzimisce GF
It's not fair bros

>>97038178
>Tzimisce GF

The rare Humanity 7+ fiend.

>>97038188
>She only torments criminals by turning them into flesh abominations so they can repent
My demonic abomination waifu can't be this cute and Orthodox

>>97038206
Wait until you hear how she deepened her cunt so she could properly take the knot from all the bf's forms. The extra height to account for the space in the waist makes her more regal.

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>>97038223
forgive me for not having a WoD reaction image for this

>>97038223
Tzimisce really are the best clan. Too bad they're all psychos

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>>97038238
forgive me anon for I didn't have more time to dick in MS paint, just a quick image mix

>>97038257
lol saved

>>97038265
happy someone enjoyed my shitpost

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>>97038239
>Too bad they're all psychos
All the best kindred are psychos. Even Smiling Jack slaughtered an entire ship full of innocent people just to bait wannabe diablerists.

>>97038302
That's pretty based though, they would have died anyway. Surprised Jack can kill so many without going crazy but I assume he's not on the path of humanity

>>97038354
Considering how he qualifies self-defense, it's not above him from taunting someone into a fight. He's a brujah after all, one that knows how to use presence. Plus he's humanity 4.

>>97038374
>He climbed onto the boat and individually taunted every sailor before he killed them
Damn he's based

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The garou are jerks

>>97038354
He was apparently in direct contact with Caine, so all bets are off as far as humanity is concerned. Caine's total mastery of animalism could, on paper, allow him to completely control another kindred's beast or just alter their humanity at will.

>>97038477
Preaching to the choir
>>97038508
I had thought the beast to be a compulsion in the blood more than an animal presence that could be controlled like that. Very cool though

>>97038477
Daring with our commentary, aren't we?

>>97038546
>werepigs
>werecows
>YEAH KILL 'EM
thank gaia there were no wereelephants or wereseals desu

>>97038562
>Weredolphins raped so much every human is a kinfolk

>>97038537
Animalism is funny that way. One part of it is controlling and communicating with animals but the other part is manipulating the beast and projecting it on others, even mortals.

Regarding the Cult of Fenris being fascists in W5, there are three particular indications that make it direct that the writers think of them in that light.

One, when working on the project, the project manager made it very clear that he considered the Get of Fenris to be a "white supremacist fantasy" and wanted to make them non-playable for that reason.
Two, towards the end of the core book, just like Vampire the Masquerade, there is a section about "fascism in play," with an example of fascism explicitly being the Cult of Fenris.
Three, in the Deepest of Wounds free adventure, which revolves around the Cult of Fenris, a Cultist of Fenris is described as an actual fascist who spouted neo-Nazi rhetoric.

Whenever the Cult of Fenris gets a decent amount of spotlight, there's always a few hints that they're pretty fashy and that the writers like depicting them in that light.

>>97038669
If you want to play a former Get via a loresheet, the game makes you take a flaw that calls you a bootlicker first before you can get anything good out of it.

The writers hate you for wanting to play a cool viking Werewolf because oWoD actually dared to do something edgy with one faction of one tribe.

>>97038681
Can you even play former Get with nu-Fenris disowning you for not being a racist? I imagine it'd be hard to get spirits in your side even with giga renown

>>97038669
Some aspects of Garou culture are fascist and some aren't. Strictly adhering to the definition of the word, Garou can not meet all of its requirements:
>Autocratic, but not a Monarchy
Easy, since a tribe generally functions that way anyway. There is a chief, a prime decision-maker that directs the whole.
>Controlled Corporatism
Most Garou avoid corporatism like a plague because it's Weaver territory, and if anyone actually does check this box it'd be Glass Walkers not Fenrir.
>Ethno-centric progressivist ideology
Fenrir/Heimdall don't quite check this box either because they are regressivist, hating modernity and staunchly adhering to the Litany.

>>97038083
>How could the Shadow Lords in Eastern Europe allow the Tzimisce to exist?
They've been at war with each other over the Carpathian Mountains for a thousand years and the Tzimisce are one of the very few vampire clans with a discipline that allows them to stand toe-to-toe with werewolves in battle without having to be elders.
>>97038681
No, that's just the one dot merit. Each lore sheet has five separate merits, with different costs ranging from one to five, that can all be taken separately. Bootlicker is just the poorly named one dot merit, you don't need to take it to take anything else.
>>97038696
There's a specific lore sheet that allows people to play Renunciates of Fenris and that's not a problem. They're now members of other tribes endorsed by new patron spirits, so it's all good.
>>97038698
It depends on what checklist you're going by, as there's a lot of different definitions of fascism and what criteria something has to meet before it's fascist. I've yet to meet anyone on the internet who can agree on a standard set of criteria, so it's a moot point.

>>97038669
This sounds like usenet screeching about whether the Sabbat were just evil catholics and whether white wolf was anti-catholic.

I think the point is more that the Cult of Fenris is all of the most retarded Garou concepts from the last 30 years of discourse.

>>97038723
>I've yet to meet anyone on the internet who can agree on a standard set of criteria, so it's a moot point.
Fair, but a lot of that is people that use Fascism and Authoritarianism as completely interchangeable concepts. Personally I prefer to look directly at how Mussolini structured and enacted his governance and go from there.

>>97038740
>>97038723
Modern day fascism is a stand in for any authoritarian regime, independent on whatever sort of ideology it kind of ascribes too. Of course, it also means right wing chuds too so it arguably lost all meaning

>>97038738
I will never admit Nordic Berserker Wolves are a mistake, they're just so fucking cool

>>97038740
I personally turn to Umberto Eco's fourteen properties of ur-fascism, though it's more about the pathology of fascism than the technical requirements of a fascist system. After all, fascism isn't just a political system but a philosophical doctrine devised by Giovanni Gentile.

But I fully expect that even mentioning Umberto Eco will cause someone to incessantly screech.

>>97038681
>cool viking werewolf

Viking-killing werewolf, anon. If anyone is revering the Aesir the Fenrir are kicking their shit over and coming for their gods.

>>97038901
Shut the fuck up.

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>>97038901
>If anyone is revering the Aesir the Fenrir are kicking their shit over and coming for their gods.
They have tried, but not succeeded.

>>97038785
>>97038740
>>97038723
>Fascism is when reactionaries hype everyone up for conquest so hard that they put retarded bullies in charge of domestic affairs and try to convince everyone this is cool and good.
How's that?

>>97039075
I define reactionaries as academics, I define conquest as cultural influence, I define retarded bullies as liberal elite, and I have successfully managed to frame most western liberal democracies as authoritarian, if not fascist.

Trying to define fascism inevitably leads to people either claiming that Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy weren't fascist at all, or claiming that anything can be made to appear fascist. There's no ironclad definition that's immune to weasel words and the twisting of definitions, despite the best efforts of professors of politics across the world.

>>97039075
>How's that?
Not great since that describes a social situation that occurs in all sorts of societies for all sorts of reasons. The French Revolution, for example, was immediately followed by a period called the Reign of Terror. People like to leave that part out when they talk about the birth of democracy.

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>>97039125
They also omit the part where France returned to monarchy twice more after the French Revolution.
and a second empire thanks to someone thinking it was a good idea to put Napoleon's nephew as president.

>>97038669
The Cult of Fenris are extremist, and since all fascist are extremists you just jump from one point to the other. That doesn't mean the Cult is by definition fascist, it means it attracts those who have more extremists worldviews, and that is appealing to fascists.
I went and check all your sources, I looked for
>, towards the end of the core book, just like Vampire the Masquerade, there is a section about "fascism in play," with an example of fascism explicitly being the Cult of Fenris.
Couldn't find it. Please post the page or the exert because it's not in the core. The "fascism in play,"doesn't mention werewolves at all.

Finally I went and check the Deepest of Wounds character you mentioned. The concept is that he's the kind that can make extremist things appealing from neo-nazism to the Cults views, that's why he's a Galliard, so he worked as a middle man before getting kicked from the Sept.

The funny thing is that I don't even like W5, but I know what the actual criticism is, and "I can't play an Scandinavian viking werewolf" isn't one, since the concept of W5 is that you CAN play that but it no longer forces you to be limited to 2 or 3 tribes, you can put that character concept in any tribe as long as he fights for the ideals of the Totem he's serving.

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>>97039708
Are you sure you looked all that hard? It's marked in the table of contents after all.

The Get didn't need to be removed and they insulted anyone that wants to play as one. You're a typical lying leftist faggot.
>it's not happening
>it's not happening THAT much
>it's a good thing it's happening

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>>97039759
>>97039708
cont. (suck my balls)

Reminder to return to /wodg/ after this because it was started by somebody that hates WtA

>>97039759
>>97039762
Sounds like you have an agenda and get angry people don't follow it. The Get are extremists, that include some fascism, they aren't per se fascists. The concept of W5 is playing any character you want not limited by tribe.

>>97039708
>No longer limited to two or three tribes
I feel like allowing players to have blatantly empty choices like that or
>anyone can be a fury
>anyone can be a talon
Devalues the setting and the previously rather well made tribe design, if you wanted to be a guy outside of your group Bone Gnawers and Glass Walkers accept literally everyone anyway, no reason to fuck with the Gets or the Furies or the Talons to get that done

>>97039882
A valid criticism, but the idea is that you get more play from less popular tribes since
>I don't want to play Younger Brother because I don't want to play a Native American
>I don't want to play a Fury because I don't want to play a woman
>I don't want to play a Talon because I don't want to play a wolf
is no longer a problem.
Like, I don't like it much since it kills any encouragement for the Narrator to include diversity in it's setting (entire party can be white European dudes with no tribe restriction, same with NPCs) but I get what the idea behind it was, not to limit player choice by background but but playstyle (you choose your tribe on the concept of what do you want your character to do during the game).

>>97039918
This is fair too, though I feel as if it could have been done without devalueing the setting. You could still always have played the one unique standout white native, except for Furies and Talons. I agree with you overall though I just wish the setting didn't need to be actively made worse by the writers to accommodate when there's always the excuse the Talons went with
>Tribes are really desperate now that Garou are dying out from the Apocalypse

>>97039935
I always take that
>For Classic WoD metaplot go W20
>If you want to do something not metaplot related with new players go W5
Since W5 can be played with less information than oWoD.

>>97039948
Yeah I agree, I just don't like all of W5s systems so I tried to induct my friends with VtM first so they get a feel before we play Werewolf. I'd prefer they read the setting before they hound(heh) me for a Werewolf game but it'll likely be W5 if they don't read. Shame too, I would love to play Wraith instead

>>97039961
Good luck, sometimes it takes time to introduce a group to any game, but I do wish you success.

>>97039972
Thank you, likewise for you to get a game going you like

>>97037715
>>Scarlet Empress
The Scarlet Empress/Phoenix originally wad an Asian name for the weaver.

>>97040605
You're thinking of the Scarlet Queen

>>97038903

The truth hurts.

>>97038931

Because the Aesir are largely cowards. Tyr showed them the price of courage, and the rest will not pay it.

>>97041294
Aren’t the norse gods vampires in WtA?

>>97041544
I know, at least, that Tyr was the werewolf who betrayed Fenris.

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>>97041983

New
>>97044676